Global warming

[Moxie]

What are your thoughts on global warming?

[Remudamom]

My sil is about as liberal as it gets, and she's a rabid global warming believer. We like to argue about it, and then just to set her off, I'll tell her I'm going to go get my spray deoderant, climb on the roof and spray it towards the heavens. She doesn't know whether to scream or laugh. (But she still comes over every week.)

[Kim in Appalachia]

The earth has been warming since the last ice-age.

 

Temperature cycles are caused by activity on the sun.

 

There are/could be a variety man made factors affecting Global temperatures. This includes less trees, less open land (meaning too much pavement blocking soil), burning of fuel.

 

Man made problems, while contibuting, are not as powerful as the sun's activity. While it would be nice to think we could have some control over the earth's warming, there is probably little we can do about it. It would be better to learn to cope.

 

It is still a good idea to pursue cleaner energy and waste reduction. In general, we are a wasteful society and that needs to change.

 

I don't think it is good to panic over it.

[LizzyBee]

One thing that makes me question man's role in GW - There was a time when the earth was warmer than it is now. That was pre-industrial revolution and when the population was much lower than it is now. So if the current GW is caused by human activity rather than nature, what caused it before?

 

In a previous discussion, someone recommended the book State of Fear by Michael Crichton. I really enjoyed the book and I think he is spot-on with his analysis of GW.

[ma23peas]

If anyone would get their thinking caps on and explore history and the changes of our climate over just the last 10,000 years...you would see this is all bunk. We were heading into an ice age in the mid 70's when gas emissions were at an all time high...there was more polution/little regulation on manufacturing emissions then and our world was growing colder...you can fool me once, but don't fool me twice...

 

The sun's flares and explosions have MORE and GREATER impact than anything we humans could do outside of complete and utter nuclear destruction...We have no control over the sun's flares...but you don't hear about those...

 

Global warming is the new trend to create products that our government will mandate we buy and fill the pockets of those industries....that's my view.

 

Tara

[Jean in Wisc]

I've read that the sun is heading into it its "hot cycle", and that the scientists say several of the planets are showing signs of warming. The sun is doing other odd things too--the solar wind is decreasing for no unknown reason, for example.

 

I've read that the ocean currents have changed, and this may be the reason for the melting of the ice caps.

 

I've read a lot of other incidental things that can add to weather pattern changes, and I'm certain that there is a change in weather in parts of the earth. I'm not convinced that the whole earth is warming up or that it is due to man's activities.

 

Mankind would do well to care for this planet, but can we make enough of an impact on it to actually change the warmth of the planet? I've not been convinced of that. I don't think we can affect the ozone a drop in the bucket compared to what the ocean does each year. I'm willing to listen, however, and weigh the data that I find. The stupidist thing we humans do is to polarize ourselves on issues and refuse to listen to the other side. Stop our ears, stick our our tongues, and hum as loudly as we can so that we can't see the whole picture. :glare:

[StaceyinLA]

I don't deny that there are changes taking place. I just think those changes are normal and would happen either way.

 

However, I just naturally have respect for the earth and environment anyway. We grow as much food as we can. I have had goats for years for milk and chickens for eggs. We compost and fertilize naturally. (of course now that all of my chickens were killed and I can no longer milk goats, idk what we'll do)

 

I don't use many disposable items at all, we recycle, we watch our water usage, I hang laundry when possible, conserve gas as much as possible, etc. I don't like waste.

 

All in all, I think everyone should have respect for the earth and do what they can to conserve resources, but I don't think it needs to be done out of fear.

[Ellie]

There's no true science that supports the concept of "global warming," Al Gore notwithstanding.

[Jumping In Puddles]

My feeling is that we need to be independent of oil. Climate change or no climate change. Oil will run out eventually, I say let America be the leaders of a new energy, one that is renewable and clean. Let's not invest in more drilling, lets invest in clean energy.

 

Things that are important:

Clean Air

Clean, unpolluted rivers and oceans

No reliance on any foreign energy source. Zero, let's take care of ourselves!

 

Clean energy is the future, even if we prove conclusively tomorrow that Climate change is all about the solar activity, we still need to protect our planet. Let's not be shortsighted! Let's take on the long view for our children and our grandchildren and their children. It will be hard, it will not be popular but I think if we can agree that this change needs to take place and work together this can happen. (obviously, the oil companies will disagree!:lol: )

 

If our planet is heating up and it is not caused by man, these measures will help us anyway, and if it is caused by man, they we are taking action.

If Climate change is the result of the sun, I think our best chance of survival would be to have a planet that is already healthy and not polluted.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Jumping In Puddles

[MyBlueLobsters]

My sil is about as liberal as it gets, and she's a rabid global warming believer. We like to argue about it, and then just to set her off, I'll tell her I'm going to go get my spray deoderant, climb on the roof and spray it towards the heavens. She doesn't know whether to scream or laugh. (But she still comes over every week.)

 

:lol:

 

FWIW, I also do not believe in GW.

[Tammyla]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

My sil is about as liberal as it gets, and she's a rabid global warming believer. We like to argue about it, and then just to set her off, I'll tell her I'm going to go get my spray deoderant, climb on the roof and spray it towards the heavens. She doesn't know whether to scream or laugh. (But she still comes over every week.)

[Retired]

If anyone would get their thinking caps on and explore history and the changes of our climate over just the last 10,000 years...you would see this is all bunk. We were heading into an ice age in the mid 70's when gas emissions were at an all time high...there was more pollution/little regulation on manufacturing emissions then and our world was growing colder...you can fool me once, but don't fool me twice...

 

 

Global warming is the new trend to create products that our government will mandate we buy and fill the pockets of those industries....that's my view.

 

Tara

 

 

I was going to mention the same thing. I have several times on this board.

We are suppose to be in a ice age according to the experts of the 70's. This whole global warming is about control and money.

[Jumping In Puddles]

I forgot to mention that I firmly believe that we are dealing with Climate Change primarily because of man made greenhouse gases. I realize that is a very unpopular view on this board but I'm happy that both Obama and McCain agree that GW is caused because of human activity.

 

Someone here said there is little scientific evidence that GW is caused by humans but I disagree, in fact, 95% of the worlds scientist agree that it is likely caused by man.

 

Fox News link There is an interesting pdf report in that link to read, here is a quote:

 

Global atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have increased

markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values

determined from ice cores spanning many thousands of years (see Figure SPM-1). The global

increases in carbon dioxide concentration are due primarily to fossil fuel use and land-use change,

while those of methane and nitrous oxide are primarily due to agriculture. {2.3, 6.4, 7.3}

 

 

Here on Wikipedia is a page with original SOURCES to

click through (66 of them)

 

The world's leading climate scientists said global warming has begun, is very likely caused by man, and will be unstoppable for centuries, ... . The phrase very likely translates to a more than 90 percent certainty that global warming is caused by man's burning of fossil fuels. That was the strongest conclusion to date, making it nearly impossible to say natural forces are to blame.

The report said that an increase in hurricane and tropical cyclone strength since 1970 more likely than not can be attributed to man-made global warming. The scientists said global warming's connection varies with storms in different parts of the world, but that the storms that strike the Americas are global warming-influenced.

 

Yes, there are some scientists who say that human activity has no effect but there are many more, without an agenda, that do believe it.

[Perry]

We are suppose to be in a ice age according to the experts of the 70's.

 

This was the opinion of the media, not the experts.

[Parrothead]

If man is causing Global Warming on Earth then I suppose it is being caused on Mars because of the Rover. The NASA site has figures on how warm the other planets in the solar system are warming at the same rate as Earth.

 

I'd be more liable to believe GW is man made if the rest of the solar system was staying the same temp or cooling off.

[Jumping In Puddles]

If man is causing Global Warming on Earth then I suppose it is being caused on Mars because of the Rover. The NASA site has figures on how warm the other planets in the solar system are warming at the same rate as Earth.

 

I'd be more liable to believe GW is man made if the rest of the solar system was staying the same temp or cooling off.

 

 

But the NASA researchers determined that Mars' warming has little to do with solar flares or sun spots and everything to do with dust that acts just like greenhouse gases in our atmosphere.

 

The dust is also exposing the dark planet under the dust which is contributing to warming.

 

The mechanism for the warming on Mars COULD NOT happen on earth.

 

This is pure spin.

[Jane in NC]

If you are interested in learning more on this topic, may I suggest Richard Wolfson's Teaching Company course entitled Earth's Changing Climate. Dr. Wolfson is a physicist at Dartmouth who discusses the scientific issues (not policy) of climate change. Granted, the series is a couple years old so not all of the data is the latest, but I think you will find Wolfson's lectures to be informative. These lectures include explanations of geological and physical phenomenon with information on various models used by climatologists.

[Elaine]

My sil is about as liberal as it gets, and she's a rabid global warming believer. We like to argue about it, and then just to set her off, I'll tell her I'm going to go get my spray deoderant, climb on the roof and spray it towards the heavens. She doesn't know whether to scream or laugh. (But she still comes over every week.)

 

:lol: I don't believe in it either.

[ncmomo3]

I've posted about this once before. My dh has his Masters in atmospheric science. He has been in the field for 17 years. We speak on this topic often.

He has never come across any other AS professional or academic in grad. school that subscribes to man-made global warming. not one.

This is purely anecdotal-I do realize.

He reads the professional journals-the hard research-not the news arcticles. Peer reviewed professional publications. It is cyclical.

This is NOT to say that he or I think we should then pollute away... hardly.

Just my .02 and my dh's .03.

Edited October 3, 2008 by ncmomo3
sp.

[tricia]

I don't know about anywhere else but here in Wisconsin we are getting global cooling. Have been for the past couple of years where we have had the worse winters in years. Maybe though, WI isn't part of the globe! :)

 

In short, I think it is a bunch of environmentalist trying to destroy more of our industry. It's all a scam like everything else the 'experts' try to sell us.

 

Tricia

http://www.mommyx12.blogspot.com

[Tabrett]

The earth has been warming since the last ice-age.

 

Temperature cycles are caused by activity on the sun.

 

There are/could be a variety man made factors affecting Global temperatures. This includes less trees, less open land (meaning too much pavement blocking soil), burning of fuel.

 

Man made problems, while contibuting, are not as powerful as the sun's activity. While it would be nice to think we could have some control over the earth's warming, there is probably little we can do about it. It would be better to learn to cope.

 

It is still a good idea to pursue cleaner energy and waste reduction. In general, we are a wasteful society and that needs to change.

 

I don't think it is good to panic over it.

But you also have to remember that before man was able to help stop and prevent natural forest fires, fires would burn and burn making big open spaces with no trees and a lot of "pollution" from the smoke. We even plant trees to help recover what we loose or remove.

Think about what the land would look like in CA and FL if man had not worked hard to prevent the fires from taking over. How much land would devastated.

 

But I do whole heartedly agree with you about the sun spots, cleaner energy and waste reduction. Every time I throw away plastic containers and boxes I think that there has to be a better way of packaging products to not have so much waste. Why does food products have to have a box and a sealed plastic bag. Couldn't we live with just the plastic bag and ditch the boxes in packaging food? There are so many little things like this I never hear anyone mention. The packaging on toys are crazy!

[Jumping In Puddles]

I don't know about anywhere else but here in Wisconsin we are getting global cooling. Have been for the past couple of years where we have had the worse winters in years. Maybe though, WI isn't part of the globe! :)

 

In short, I think it is a bunch of environmentalist trying to destroy more of our industry. It's all a scam like everything else the 'experts' try to sell us.

 

Tricia

http://www.mommyx12.blogspot.com

 

That's why there is a push to call it Climate Change because it doesn't always mean warming.

 

What is in it for the experts? What do you think they want out of this?

[CookieMonster]

Funny that. I just got my copy of Global Warming: A Scientific and Biblical Exposè of Climate Change in the mail today. :)

 

A Big Ditto to much of what has been stated by others here...

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

When I took World History last winter, the professor lectured on how Europe used to be much warmer in the early years of the Christian Era. Grapes grew well even into England, therefore the main beverage at the time was wine. In the late middle ages the Earth cooled off significantly, supposedly because of extreme volcanic activity, and many of the former grape growing regions in the more nothern parts of Europe had to turn to beer production instead. The Earth continued to cool well into the 18th century in many places and that time is now called the little ice age. Since that time temperatures have obviously warmed up. I would really like to know what was the normal average temperature of the Earth before the little ice age, and whether it has warmed back up to that temperature now.

[PariSarah]

. . . we may even be imperiling our own survival as a species. I don't have any reason to doubt the science behind climate change theory.

 

I happen to be more worried about other environmental concerns, specifically because they're more comprehensible and . . . I don't know, direct? Obvious? Predictable? Things like agricultural pollution and its effects on waterways, air pollution and its effects on human health, that sort of thing. Somebody says to me, "Company A dumped chemical B into waterway C, and now all the fish are dead!" and I can understand it. It's easy to understand the science, and it's pretty easy to understand the policy solutions.

 

It's not as clear-cut with the climate change science, nor with the policy solutions that are usually proposed. My humanities brain can't always wrap itself around the scientific concepts, and I'm sometimes suspicious of the trail between the science and the politics.

 

But since I believe strongly in the biblical concept of stewardship of the earth, I am trying to understand the science, and I am 100% in support of policies that represent responsible stewardship of creation.

[Parrothead]

But the NASA researchers determined that Mars' warming has little to do with solar flares or sun spots and everything to do with dust that acts just like greenhouse gases in our atmosphere.

 

The dust is also exposing the dark planet under the dust which is contributing to warming.

 

The mechanism for the warming on Mars COULD NOT happen on earth.

 

This is pure spin.

 

I didn't know they had found a "cause." Thanks for pointing that out.

[kokotg]

This whole global warming is about control and money.

 

I've never understood this. To me it seems incredibly clear that the much greater financial incentive is in denying global warming, since, you know...oil and all that. So, sincere question....what is the line of reasoning that scientists have a greater stake in perpetrating a fraud about man-made climate change than oil companies have in denying it? Is there any evidence for the charge that scientists are conspiring in this way?

[goodgollycr]

The earth has been warming since the last ice-age.

 

Temperature cycles are caused by activity on the sun.

 

There are/could be a variety man made factors affecting Global temperatures. This includes less trees, less open land (meaning too much pavement blocking soil), burning of fuel.

 

Man made problems, while contibuting, are not as powerful as the sun's activity. While it would be nice to think we could have some control over the earth's warming, there is probably little we can do about it. It would be better to learn to cope.

 

It is still a good idea to pursue cleaner energy and waste reduction. In general, we are a wasteful society and that needs to change.

 

I don't think it is good to panic over it.

 

My sentiments exactly, though I am sure I could not have said it so well.

[keptwoman]

I forgot to mention that I firmly believe that we are dealing with Climate Change primarily because of man made greenhouse gases. I realize that is a very unpopular view on this board but I'm happy that both Obama and McCain agree that GW is caused because of human activity.

 

Me too. And let me tell you it's a lot easier to believe when you live under the Ozone hole that man has created. I'd really appreciate it if y'all could lay off the ozone depleting stuff for the sake of the skin of those of use who live below the hole. Skin cancer is not a fun thing and let me tell you, even with strong sunscreen on, when the Ozone is thin you can get burnt in less than an hour.

 

So I'm all for clean green energy. I have to say that Australia is pretty sucky on this point. WAY too much coal powered energy for my liking. New Zealand is better but still has some work to do.

 

Beyond the Ozone I just don't like the level of pollution that man is causing on earth. We are not being good stewards for the earth that our kids will inherit.

[BusyMum]

There is a fabulous documentary by Martin Durkin called "The Great Global Warming Swindle" which is a great foil to Al Gore's "The Inconvenient Truth". It is well researched, beautifully presented and completely lacking in emotive hyperbole. Plus all their graphs have the values clearly marked so you can judge for yourself! :P

 

I saw it on Youtube but I took a quick look there just now and couldn't see it. I found this link though. And it is available from Amazon.

[Parrothead]

I've never understood this. To me it seems incredibly clear that the much greater financial incentive is in denying global warming, since, you know...oil and all that. So, sincere question....what is the line of reasoning that scientists have a greater stake in perpetrating a fraud about man-made climate change than oil companies have in denying it? Is there any evidence for the charge that scientists are conspiring in this way?

My thinking (and I have my colander on) stems from my lack of faith in Al Gore and the enormous costs of the war. What better way to make money than to have people panic over a natural occurrence than to give it a horrid spin. Lets convince everyone that humans are actually causing GW and make them pay for something totally without value. The carbon credit. One would have to buy one's credit from the government. What else do you pay for and get nothing in return? To me it is purchasing the right to breathe.

 

So imagining the billions governments around the world can make once everyone buys into GW is very easy. Lets pay some scientists under the table and think of it as an investment. We will put a spin on it to scare the world.

 

And to me they were doing a pretty good job of it to start. They forgot that the internet exists I suppose. People are doing their own research into the phenomenon of GW and finding not all the scientists agree.

 

Today the evidence is starting to show that Earth is just entering a cooling cycle. Earth was cooler last year.

 

Another thing to look into is a Munder Minimum which occurs periodically in history. Here is a good editorial that explains what that is and the Canadian researchers studying the possibility. http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=287279412587175

 

If the Munder Minimum happens any time soon, I can just hear the We-did-its that will start before people realize something is terribly wrong.

 

I'm hoping mandatory carbon credits don't come into being until after the heat cycle ends. Maybe we will get credit for suing coal or wood to heat our houses then.

[newbie]

Me too. And let me tell you it's a lot easier to believe when you live under the Ozone hole that man has created. I'd really appreciate it if y'all could lay off the ozone depleting stuff for the sake of the skin of those of use who live below the hole. Skin cancer is not a fun thing and let me tell you, even with strong sunscreen on, when the Ozone is thin you can get burnt in less than an hour.

 

So I'm all for clean green energy. I have to say that Australia is pretty sucky on this point. WAY too much coal powered energy for my liking. New Zealand is better but still has some work to do.

 

Beyond the Ozone I just don't like the level of pollution that man is causing on earth. We are not being good stewards for the earth that our kids will inherit.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Parrothead]

Beyond the Ozone I just don't like the level of pollution that man is causing on earth. We are not being good stewards for the earth that our kids will inherit.

:iagree: I may not believe there is a GW crisis, but I do believe that man can do a much better job of cleaning up the damage and way of thinking that has gotten us to this point.

[Aggie]

I've never understood this. To me it seems incredibly clear that the much greater financial incentive is in denying global warming, since, you know...oil and all that. So, sincere question....what is the line of reasoning that scientists have a greater stake in perpetrating a fraud about man-made climate change than oil companies have in denying it? Is there any evidence for the charge that scientists are conspiring in this way?

 

Al Gore has a financial stake in it. When he buys carbon credits, it's from his own company. :)

[Apiphobic]

If you are interested in learning more on this topic, may I suggest Richard Wolfson's Teaching Company course entitled Earth's Changing Climate. Dr. Wolfson is a physicist at Dartmouth who discusses the scientific issues (not policy) of climate change. Granted, the series is a couple years old so not all of the data is the latest, but I think you will find Wolfson's lectures to be informative. These lectures include explanations of geological and physical phenomenon with information on various models used by climatologists.

 

Thanks, Jane in NC. This looks good.

[ereks mom]

For a simple, concise debunking of global warming, I suggest reading pages 36-40 of Exploring Creation with Physical Science, 2nd edition by Jay Wile.

[Peek a Boo]

I've never understood this. To me it seems incredibly clear that the much greater financial incentive is in denying global warming, since, you know...oil and all that. So, sincere question....what is the line of reasoning that scientists have a greater stake in perpetrating a fraud about man-made climate change than oil companies have in denying it? Is there any evidence for the charge that scientists are conspiring in this way?

 

 

every time someone points to the research that bolster's Big Oil's claims, the first question is Who's Funding the Research.

 

So yeah --what i wanna know is --Who's Funding the Research:

 

the Government? -who can put in allll sorts of taxes and controls over what people can and can't do?

 

the colleges? -who have Seriously Rich benefactors that have their own agendas?

 

is there any evidence? probably not. But there's plenty of practical reasons for questioning funding of research.

 

people are fallible --even scientists ;)

[Peek a Boo]

I've read that the sun is heading into it its "hot cycle", and that the scientists say several of the planets are showing signs of warming. The sun is doing other odd things too--the solar wind is decreasing for no unknown reason, for example.

 

I've read that the ocean currents have changed, and this may be the reason for the melting of the ice caps.

 

I've read a lot of other incidental things that can add to weather pattern changes, and I'm certain that there is a change in weather in parts of the earth. I'm not convinced that the whole earth is warming up or that it is due to man's activities.

 

Mankind would do well to care for this planet, but can we make enough of an impact on it to actually change the warmth of the planet? I've not been convinced of that. I don't think we can affect the ozone a drop in the bucket compared to what the ocean does each year. I'm willing to listen, however, and weigh the data that I find. The stupidist thing we humans do is to polarize ourselves on issues and refuse to listen to the other side. Stop our ears, stick our our tongues, and hum as loudly as we can so that we can't see the whole picture. :glare:

 

:iagree:

 

I think the polarization of teh issue really affects the efficiency of the cause.

 

One doesn't have to 'buy' GW to agree that good stewardship and low pollution are sensible and good. If i was really really concerned about getting as many people as possible to reduce, reuse, and recycle, then i'd probably focus on that and watch my tone about GW --separate issues, but the R-R-R will help the other w/o ever mentioning GW ;)

[KathyBC]

I found this book informative:

Taken By Storm: the troubled science, policy and politics of global warming (Essex & McKitrick)

[Apiphobic]

I found these two books very informative and helpful:

 

The Weather Makers

 

The Winds of Change

 

Going to the library tomorrow to pick up the BBC series Planet Earth. :lurk5: