if your child was a delayed reader, when did it "click"?

[caedmyn]

Curious what others' experiences have been with children who are delayed readers. My 7 yo first grader still doesn't read fluently. We did phonics for K, and this year are doing ETC plus readers. He's improved since the beginning of the year, but still has to sound most words out. He will not attempt to read to himself, and he says he's not good at reading. He will look at pictures in books for a while, and loves being read to. I don't think he has any learning disabililties other than some ADHD symptoms. I keep hearing that it will eventually just click for him. Just wondering when that might be likely to happen.

[RootAnn]

Some kids do have some sort of learning disability. Mine are late bloomers, so it did eventually click. One was almost 8. Another was almost 10. Still waiting on ds1 and ds2. It'll be 8+ for ds1. Only one was reading fluently at 7. Good Luck!

[alisoncooks]

I don't know what to call a late-bloomer and what to call *more,* but my oldest DD did not read until 8.5 (halfway through 3rd grade).  That was the point at which she went from struggling to read Frog & Toad... to reading Magic Treehouse and other chapter books on her own (and wanting to).  That was the point that I saw the leap from "do I have to?" and fighting our lessons, to wanting to read and being a reader.

 

Youngest DD is 7.5, and she is still slowly gaining fluency with simple words (has been through ETC4 but cannot read those words fluently).  She's not able to read "real" books yet (aside from controlled vocabulary readers).  Having been through the thick of it with her sister, I'm trying to let it follow its course.

[OneStepAtATime]

For some kids they do just need more time.  For others more time doesn't really help much and waiting makes it harder to help them.  Without an official evaluation it would be very hard to know if there are learning issues.  There are MANY things that can cause reading to be a challenge.  Most things are very hard for a layman to determine.  

 

Honestly, if at 7 he is still struggling with decoding and fluency it could be dyslexia.  Getting an evaluation is not a scary thing or a negative labeling thing.  It is how you find out the specific strengths and weaknesses that your child may be dealing with.  Strengths may be masking weakness and weaknesses masking strengths, making it exceedingly difficult for a layman to determine what the real underlying source or sources of the struggles/delays may be.  That means your child may have some tremendous strengths that never get tapped into because the weaknesses are not really effectively addressed.

 

Before doing anything else, I would highly recommend reading The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.  Perhaps the Dyslexic Advantage by the same authors would also help but definitely look at the first book.  It may give you additional areas to look.

 

FWIW, if your child really is dyslexic, he probably has strengths in other areas.  It doesn't mean he is defective, just that he processes language differently.  It also means that reading fluently is still possible with the right instruction.  Some dyslexics need VERY broken down, explicit phonics instruction.  Even more broken down than a program like All About Reading/All About Spelling.  Getting them that instruction can make a huge difference.  

 

I waited.  I should not have.  Getting DD the right program turned her reading skills around significantly.  I waited years to get evaluations because everyone said she just needed more time.  No, what she needed was instruction designed specifically for a dyslexic brain.  Getting an evaluation and answers was a HUGE help.  I learned so much about the strengths and weaknesses of both my kids.  It was so helpful.  I wasted years and years trying to force her brain to learn how to read in a very inefficient manner for how she thinks.  I wish with all my heart I had those years back.

 

Here is my view:  If there is no learning issue, then getting the evaluation (through a neuropsychologist preferably) still gives you specific information on your child's abilities that could be very helpful for his education and rules out any concerns you may have.  If there IS a learning issue then getting that information now, before the pre-teen hormonal years and before the child has developed ingrained poor reading strategies that are harder to remediate, can be a real life-saver.  If you wait, your child may learn inefficient coping strategies that actually hold them back from reaching their true potential.  It can also make learning needlessly hard on both of you.  And no one needs to know the results of those tests except you and your family.  

 

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.  You might post on the Learning Challenges board, by the way. :)

 

Best wishes.

[Garga]

My boy started to "click" at about 7 1/2 but it was still a long road. He's 13 now and still has a terrible time sounding out unfamiliar words, though he can read fine otherwise and if I maaaake him slow down he can do it. He just doesn't want to slow down (ADHD.)

 

I don't think reading ever clicked for him in one nice CLICK. It just slowly started to settle into place over time and it started at about 7.5.

 

I remember hating to sound out word until I was, oh 26? I'm a voracious reader, but would still skim over words I couldn't pronounce.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Garga

[Lori D.]

Not long after he turned 8yo. For him, it was a "switch clicking on" moment, from sounding out and everything being slow and laborious, to one day we were doing our daily read-aloud practice popcorn style ("you read a page, I read a page") with a Frog and Toad level of reader and I literally saw him light up in the middle of a page with an expression that said "Hey! I GET this and it's not a struggle!", and he started reading faster, and wanted to read more and more, and finished the book out loud on his own.  :)

 

He didn't really care to read until he found a series of chapter books at about age 10. He has mild "stealth dyslexia" and as a young adult, he still mis-reads some longer words and unfamiliar words/names.

 

He always loved Calvin and Hobbes, Where's Waldo, Eye Spy, and the "exploded view" books that are heavy on illustration with short captions with snippets of info. Later on, once he was fluent in reading, he seemed to mostly prefer non-fiction, esp. things related to his personal interests -- gaming manuals, Brick journal, Popular Mechanics, a computer magazine, etc. While reading will probably never be a first-line choice activity for his free time, he sometimes gets on a "reading kick" when he finds something he really enjoys -- usually in the sci-fi, dystopia, or fantasy genres.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Lori D.

[Julie of KY]

Reading clicked with my daughter about age 11. My 9 year old is still sounding out short words and doesn't even begin to guess on harder ones. Both have diagnosed dyslexia and have spent years using Barton Reading and Spelling.

[Liza Q]

I have a standard in mind when I think of independent reading - being able to read something like an American Girl book . My oldest - end of K, just turned 6. My second - end of 2nd, just turned 8. My third - end of 5th, 10.5yo. Youngest - middle of 4th grade or so, so 9ish.

 

No learning disabilities. A lot of my not having a good plan/approach due to family issues mixed with resistance due to disinterest, I think.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Liza Q

[Ellie]

Mine was 9 1/2.

 

She was taking classes at the community college when she was 14. :-)

[Melissa B]

I wouldn't consider a 7 year old/1st grader delayed. :)

 

Mine were 8, 8, 9 and 10 when they could read independently.

[FO4UR]

My oldest was 9yo. My 3rd child was 7yo.

 

 

I am writing the Companions to the Treadwell Readers as a result of what I've learned teaching my boys to read.  (dd10 taught herself by eaves dropping in on her older brother's lessons.)

 

The Pre-Primer works heavily on blending & decoding basics.  Check the lulu.com link in my siggie.

[Farrar]

My slower reader never had a "click" moment. He just progressed slowly and (mostly) surely. He's still not a super fast or voracious reader. I think it's one of those myths of education that all kids get a click moment for reading. For him, he just has kept slowly becoming a better reader. I mean, even now, he's in 6th grade, he's still improving his reading, which is not something that I hear people on this board talking about much. It's all like, oh, I did the phonics instruction and now the kid decodes (not necessarily reads, which implies understanding and vocabulary and maturity) at the highest level. Not so here. I see a slow improvement in his reading every year.

[UnlikelyHomeschoolingMama]

I wouldn't consider a 7 year old/1st grader delayed. :)

 

Mine were 8, 8, 9 and 10 when they could read independently.

 

 

I agree.  My daughter is an AVID reader now (at 8.5).  She was halfway through 1st grade (this time last year) and it clicked.  She was STRUGGLING through K level readers in October/November.  By testing time she was reading on a 4th grade level.  It was the most bizarre thing.  

 

Just stick with it.  Some kids read at 3 and 4...others at 8 or 9 or 10.  Hang in there!!

[AspenSong]

My son didn't start reading proficiently until halfway through his 10th year.  He got hooked on Beast Quest books and read 23 of them, one after the other.  He's now almost 11 and can read just about anything, even complicated instruction manuals.  I believe he has slight dyslexia and still has trouble with spelling but it me amazed how, for him, it really did "click".  I was never very concerned about it...I knew it would come, and I never put pressure on him.

[SkateLeft]

My third child (now a 9th grader) was a delayed reader. He was 10 before it really started to click with him. Interestingly, he is now my most avid reader. He's always got his nose in a book and stays up until the wee hours reading. I've shared a lot of my favorites with him, and we both love a lot of the same authors.

Edited March 18, 2016 by ghostwheel

[HS Mom in NC]

Basic phonics didn't click for my middle daughter until almost 8. Until then she could only do individual letter sounds but no blending at all.  By 11 she could read like an adult.  At 15 she started college and testing into the engineering program.  At 18 she's been asked to audition to speak at graduation at the community college in May when she gets her Associates degree because of her academic performance. We got out phonics when she was 5, worked diligently twice a day for 10-15 minutes every day for a couple of weeks and nothing stuck.  We put it away for about 3 months and then repeated the process every 3 months until it finally did just before her 8th birthday.

 

My oldest could read fluently like an adult at age 5.  My youngest is 10 and can't read like an adult yet but phonics clicked at 6.  Kids are all different.

If you have reason to suspect your child has learning challenge, by all means get it checked out by a professional but don't automatically assume a delayed reader has a learning challenge.

[caedmyn]

I don't think he has any learning issues. I look at several different websites on dyslexia and the only symptom he really has is a tendency to mix up b and d (and he gets them right half the time too). But his older sister was reading fluently at 4.5, and I can see next year's K'er passing him in the reading department pretty quickly...and it wouldn't surprised me if my youngest learns to read at 4 as he's very bright and has to do everything his siblings do...so I'm a little concerned about DS1 getting an inferiority complex.

[Ellie]

Curious what others' experiences have been with children who are delayed readers. My 7 yo first grader still doesn't read fluently. We did phonics for K, and this year are doing ETC plus readers. He's improved since the beginning of the year, but still has to sound most words out. He will not attempt to read to himself, and he says he's not good at reading. He will look at pictures in books for a while, and loves being read to. I don't think he has any learning disabililties other than some ADHD symptoms. I keep hearing that it will eventually just click for him. Just wondering when that might be likely to happen.

 

Oh, I didn't address this: I would not consider a 7yo a "delayed reader."

 

How far have you gotten with ETC?

[HS Mom in NC]

 I'm a little concerned about DS1 getting an inferiority complex.

 

Point out things he is already good at that they aren't good at.

[HS Mom in NC]

I agree that a 7 year old not being a fluent reader is by FAR the norm.

[caedmyn]

He's doing ETC 3 right now.

[calihil]

My 7 year old is also not fluent with her reading yet. I'm just waiting for it all to click for her, hopefully it will soon.

Edited March 19, 2016 by calihil

[TX Pilgrim]

This is a good post about this exact issue from a mom who is now homeschooling but has taught many kids to read.  It basically echoes all the experiences above.  Her first point is that most kids really get reading at around age 8 - so like everyone says above - he's doing okay. 

 

I do understand the "inferiority" complex concern.  I have a friend who is facing the same thing with her daughter and son.  He is about 2 years younger and just "gets" it.  She is trying to think about it as coaching for skills.  Some kids get skills faster than others but you can't really move on until you master the skill you are at. I think there is a chance my 4 yo might get it faster than my 6 yo as well, We'll see.

 

The only other thing I haven't seen mentioned is making sure your kiddo can cross the mid-line well.  If this is difficult for them it is hard to follow print from left to right across the page and it can really impact handwriting.  

 

 

 

[Cake and Pi]

Not reading is totally fine in 1st grade, still pretty normal in 2nd grade, a bit worrisome in 3rd grade, and a child still struggling to read in 4th grade probably has something else going on and should be tested (all IMO) .  Though, if I suspected my child had a LD interfering with reading (or anything else) before then, I'd peruse testing earlier.  

 

I started reading in the middle of 4th grade, so 9yo, nearly 10yo.  That was silently in my head.  I struggled to read out loud until about 6th grade (12ish yo).  I would say that I had (have?) an undiagnosed LD,  but it's a long story.  I do wish my mother had looked for some help around 3rd grade.  I knew by then that everyone else could read and I felt bad about myself because I couldn't.  I was *sure* I was especially stupid until a very observant teacher in jr high submitted my name for gifted testing.

 

Between my older three boys, we've got about a 1.5 year spread for beginning reading, and it's looking like fluent reading will have a even bigger spread, probably a bit more than 2 years difference between earliest and latest, a lot of which I'm attributing to interest.  My earlier reader is by far more interested than the other two.  

 

As for siblings and comparing, that can be tough.  You could have your Ker work in a different reading/phonics curriculum than your 1st grader so that it is more difficult for them to compare.   We've spent a lot of time over here talking about how different people learn things at different times and that doesn't automatically make them better or worse at them.  I play up effort and interest as most important while acknowledging that individuals have varying inborn abilities, so that for every person some things will come more easily while others require more effort, but a person can become good at almost anything if they work hard enough.

 

Final thought: are you sure your kiddo's eye sight is good??  One of my boys began reading early, but then stalled out and didn't make progress toward fluency until I made the connection that he could read the print in easier readers  because it was BIGGER.  I hadn't suspected a vision issue because neither DH nor I needed glasses as kids, but I took him to the eye doctor, and sure enough, he needed glasses!  His reading really took off after that.

[ElizabethB]

Some students need a lot more repetition than others. It is best to work in 2 or 3 twenty minute periods instead of one long period of work, with breaks and other subjects in between.

 

Adding in spelling and games helps, my phonics concentration game is fun and free:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

Also, if you teach syllables, you can get them working on easy divided 2 to 3 syllable words, my remedial students love to be able to sound out "tough" long words, it boosts their confidence. The Webster's Speller excerpts has big grade levels at the top, my students love to be working on "4th grade level words," or "7th grade level words." It is link number 8 on the page below.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html

Edited March 19, 2016 by ElizabethB

[kolamum]

I may be in the minority, but I do not feel a 7 year old is a delayed reader if they aren't reading fluently. Neither of my children were reading fluently at that age which may taint my perspective. They did however have the interest to learn & did well with all phonics lessons. My eldest was a very delayed reader {11 onward} due to Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome which too us a few years to sort out..

[Esse Quam Videri]

My oldest read fluently at age 4, my middle more "normal" and progressed steadily through age 5 and 6. At 7 he read "The Story of Dr. Dolittle" aloud independently, so I'd say he was fluent. My youngest was a whole different story. She learned all her letter sounds/phonograms and could blend well, but it was obvious that fluency was sooooo difficult. She would decode the same words over and over and over without ever recognizing them. She'll be 8 in May, and we recently got her tested, and she is severely dyslexic. Barton is already working wonders... One early sign was her complete inability to come up with rhyming words. Even now she sometimes has trouble with rhyme. She is very very bright and easily learned letter sounds, but it's incredibly difficult for her to manipulate them even orally.

 

I know every child is different, but for us, I should've had her tested sooner. I wish I wouldn't have "waited for it to click." She's put in so much work without reaping any benefit because her phonemic awareness just wasn't there. And actually, she's learned really bad habits of guessing words, etc. that we are now having to undo.

 

Edited to add that she is also my child who walked at 10 months, could swim by age 3, could ride a bike shortly after, and is highly gifted artistically, athletically, and musically. Dyslexia has actually been an advantage is many, many ways.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Esse Quam Videri

[bluedarling]

My 3 with delays started reading fluently around 11-12yo (they could read before then, but it was a struggle.)  For the older two, vision therapy was a part of their eventual success, and they love to read now. (The oldest was in a school for dyslexics in 3rd grade, and they said visual dyslexics like my son had a better outlook than those with language-based issues.  Like your son, he loved being read to!)  The 3rd had mild language-based issues...she reads well enough now, but still struggles with language in general. (She hated being read to because she couldn't process the language well.)  We waited too long to get her help.  Because it was mild we waited, and we should not have.  I agree with getting evaluations (starting around age 7) even if its mild just so you have a better idea of what will be helpful, and because its easier to find help for language issues for younger kids, and very difficult for older kids.

[herekittykitty]

I think the reason there are basically 2 different camps here - it's probably fine, and it could be dyslexia - are because they are both possible.  There is no way to know without testing your child's skills in 2 basic areas: phonological awareness and rapid naming.  These 2 skills are the building blocks of reading, and are when tested in K and 1st are highly predictive of later reading problems.

 

Phonological awareness is the ability to hear and manipulate the sounds in words.  This is not to be confused with phonics (knowing that letters represent sounds).  A good article on PA is here:  https://www.superduperinc.com/handouts/pdf/172%20Phonological%20Awareness.pdf

 

Rapid naming is the ability to quickly retrieve the right words for things known to the child.  So if you show them pictures of known animals, or cards of basic colors, can they quickly say the name?  Problems with rapid naming are essentially trouble finding the right word.

 

Picture two 6 or 7 year olds, both not reading, both appearing typical.  One has good phonological awareness and rapid naming, and for this child it will just click, because the building blocks are in place.  The other has poor phonological awareness and difficulty with rapid naming and with need systematic, direct, explicit reading and spelling instruction.  This second one likely has dyslexia.

 

I would research these concepts, and dyslexia, and if you have ANY concerns I would get an eval and start remediation right away.  The one thing almost all experts agree on is that the years between 1st and 3rd grade are the most fruitful to intervene.  If you wait it out until 3rd or later, it takes twice as long to make the same amount of progress.  I know a lot of parents who wished they would not have waited for it to click.

 

Good luck.

Edited March 20, 2016 by herekittykitty

[PeterPan]

... still has to sound most words out. He will not attempt to read to himself, and he says he's not good at reading. 

In threads like this it's really easy to talk past each other.  It sounds like you're saying that when he comes up to a word he has decoded before (dog, hat, etc) he has to decode it again.  That's a dyslexia symptom, a huge red flag.  That's really different from he's crunchy and plodding through and doesn't have FLUENCY.  You started off talking about fluency, but I'm backing up and asking how he's decoding.  The more extreme you go with this (yes, we've decoded the word "dog" 50 times and he STILL doesn't recognize it!) the more you're talking dyslexia, not just run of the mill wait it out.  So I'd definitely explore in there and see what you're dealing with.  Do you have a tool to run for decoding and reading comprehension?  An SLP, the ps, a dyslexia tutor, any of those might have a CTOPP to run on him.  That would give you objective evidence.  

 

You mentioned ADHD.  Yes, if he has low working memory, it could make his decoding crunchy.  He might drop letters or have no short term memory (the RAM of the brain, just like in a computer!) to store the word to get it into long-term memory.  You might need to step up your efforts, working on working memory, doing more direct drills to practice these words and get them fluent.  Dyslexics tend to have low RAN/RAS (rapid naming), and that too affects ability to sound out and rapidly name and pull the word together.  It too is something you can work on.  

 

He's ALREADY saying he's struggling.  He sees it and sees his peers zooming fast him.  You mentioned later being concerned about how it would affect his self-esteem.  That ship has already sailed.  So then, to me, you go ok is it better to WAIT and continue working randomly and hoping it somehow "clicks," or is it better to intervene, maybe use some better, more targeted methodologies, get this working, and get him some SUCCESS.  Success, a feeling of competence, that's what you're looking for.  Personally, I don't think being developmentally sensitive means not teaching, not intervening.  And you have a BUNCH of things there you could intervene on that would *probably* give him a bump to get him over this hump.  I've done them with my ds and my ds got dramatic bumps. 

 

 

I don't think he has any learning issues. I look at several different websites on dyslexia and the only symptom he really has is a tendency to mix up b and d (and he gets them right half the time too). But his older sister was reading fluently at 4.5, and I can see next year's K'er passing him in the reading department pretty quickly...and it wouldn't surprised me if my youngest learns to read at 4 as he's very bright and has to do everything his siblings do...so I'm a little concerned about DS1 getting an inferiority complex.

Reversals are not dyslexia.  Per DSM5, dyslexia is now SLD reading, phonological processing, NOT a vision problem.  If he's having reversals, get him an OT eval and get his vision checked by a developmental optometrist.  I'm not saying there's not a lot of overlap. I'm just saying that is NOT a diagnostic criteria.  COVD.org is where you find a developmental optometrist.  Ironically, so far as we can tell, my ds with dyslexia has no developmental vision problems, and my dd with adhd but no dyslexia had significant developmental vision problems, lol.  You don't know till you check.

 

Siblings are usually within 10 points on IQ, and you've said your other kids are bright.  That makes it MORE likely that this is an SLD.  He's behind grade level and probably becoming discrepant from his expected achievement.  You have things any experienced tutor (or mom  :)  ) could intervene on to get changes.  And you know, if you try those better tools and it doesn't click, you go ok why.  Is he not ready, is he...  But there's no reason why you can't intervene a little better.  You could give him the Barton pre-test, for instance, just to see if he has any GLARING deficiencies causing this reluctance.  You could get his eyes checked to make sure there's not a vision problem.  He's old enough for an OT eval.  There is a retained reflex (STNR) directly correlated to reading problems.  You could get a tutor, SLP, whomever, to run a CTOPP just to make sure there's not another explanation.  Being developmentally sensitive does not preclude doing these things.  And you could use the information you gather to make some choices.  You might go ok, I'm going to work on working memory and bring some games for that into our day.  Or I'm going to put his reading curriculum words on Quizlet and drill them to fluency (what I did with my ds and my dd for that matter).  You might decide to step it up beyond ETC and get something more detailed like AAR.  

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't think he has any learning issues. I look at several different websites on dyslexia and the only symptom he really has is a tendency to mix up b and d (and he gets them right half the time too). But his older sister was reading fluently at 4.5, and I can see next year's K'er passing him in the reading department pretty quickly...and it wouldn't surprised me if my youngest learns to read at 4 as he's very bright and has to do everything his siblings do...so I'm a little concerned about DS1 getting an inferiority complex.

I guess maybe you aren't looking at very up to date sites.  You say he does not decode well and has poor fluency.  Those are not exclusive to dyslexia but are definitely classic signs that dyslexia may be an issue.  In fact, that is what will continue to trip up an unremediated dyslexic in learning to read, poor decoding skills and lack of fluency.  The reversals are a side issue that many kids have is no longer used for diagnosis.  

 

Have you tried a more targeted form of instruction, such as All About Reading?  

 

I also agree with OhElizabeth, you might just run your child through the Barton Reading and Spelling screening.  It is free, it doesn't take very long, and it might give you more pieces of the puzzle.  It is not testing for dyslexia but it will help you know if there may be underlying issues with sound discrimination/etc. that would make any reading program difficult without some additional targeted help.  I linked it below.  

 

https://bartonreading.com/students/

 

Just make sure you and your child are in a quiet room, are well rested and won't be interrupted.

[PeterPan]

Fwiw, I had this same controversy (is it just a delay, should I wait and see what happens) with ds' speech.  That, too, is something where people have experiences and lots of anecdotes.  I finally decided that statistics and anecdotes didn't matter, that all that mattered was *my* child and whether that was the right choice for *my* child.  I felt like if I waited on intervening on his speech on the theory that for *some* kids it eventually clicks, I would have regrets if it didn't.  I felt like there was no problem with intervening in a developmentally sensitive, developmentally appropriate way, but that I would have regrets if I DIDN'T intervene.

 

On reading, same gig.  We have very clear testing (CTOPP) that can help a psych discriminate actual dyslexia from a kid who just needs a bit more time for fluency and things to click.  Think about what happens if you wait, you don't step up the explicitness of the instruction, what happens a year from now?  Then he's 8.5, more behind, and more realizing how behind he is.  

 

If he were in the ps, they would do a process called RTI (Response to Intervention).  This means they would do a bit more explicit instruction, a little more pull-outs, and see what happens, see if that gets him over the hump.  MANY, many, many kids with ADHD are going to have crunchy reading and need more explicit instruction.  In fact, ADHD and dyslexia used to be lumped together as ONE diagnosis!  It was called minimal brain dysfunction, and you'll see remnants of the term in state law.  Anyways, because there's this heavy overlap, it's EXTREMELY common for kids with ADHD to benefit from stepped up instruction.  He might need some increased intervention, even if it's not dyslexia.  

Edited March 20, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Incognito]

It clicked for us when we got intervention and support.  I could tell that things weren't just slower, they were terribly much HARDER and it wasn't getting better.

[caedmyn]

DH is not going to agree to any sort of testing, tutoring, etc.  DH thinks he reads fine.  I can do the Barton screening with him.

 

I think that he decodes ok.  He has not fully internalized vowel blends, but I think that is normal for a 1st grader (not to mention most vowel blends have at least one common words that doesn't pronounce it that way, and he's noticed this).  He does recognize words he's sounded out before, although if it's been a while since he saw them he may have to sound them out again. Part of the lack of fluency might be because what we are using for reading instruction (ETC 2 & 3 + Blend Phonics Lite) doesn't have very much repetition of common words.  It's mostly new words.  We were using something that had a lot more repetition at the beginning of the year (Pathway 1st grade readers), but I found that he was guessing instead of really looking at the words because there was so much repetition (ie the sentences tended to be similar to "The girl said, 'Good, good.  That was good.'  The girl did good.")  So it may be that he is not seeing a lot of words often enough to remember them, and so he's not getting that fluency that comes from recognizing the words.  

 

I don't think he has low working memory either.  Or at least, I have low working memory due to health problems, and I don't see him having issues with the sorts of things that I struggle with.  And I read Smart But Scattered and according to their checklists working memory didn't come up on his list of executive function things to work on.

 

I think another part of the problem is that he's a perfectionist, so he gets frustrated really easily.  So because he thinks he's not good at reading, he doesn't think he can just look at a word and "say it the fast way"...even though I think that he actually can do it.  And maybe he just needs more reading practice overall, because we're only doing short lessons so he doesn't get frustrated and want to quit.  (And he's less frustrated than he was at the beginning of the year, and can read for longer, but 10 minutes at a time for sitting down and reading...longer for ETC...is about his limit).

 

He is making steady progress, it is just slow.  His reading comprehension is fine.  He can sound out words (ie spell them by sound) without any trouble too.  These are some of the things I saw as possible signs of dyslexia on the websites I looked at (along with a bunch of others I can't remember at the moment, that he also does fine), and that's why I say he doesn't have those signs of dyslexia.

[Crimson Wife]

You might want to consider switching from ETC to something like Wilson Fundations. It is pricey but is designed to serve kids who need more than a typical learn-to-read program like ETC or Hooked on Phonics but less than a heavy-duty intervention program like Barton.

[PeterPan]

DH is not going to agree to any sort of testing, tutoring, etc.  DH thinks he reads fine.  I can do the Barton screening with him.

 

Honestly, in a situation like that, the best thing to do is do a standardized test.  That way you have OBJECTIVE information, not just sentiments or impressions, to guide you.  And no, you cannot use a checklist in Smart But Scattered to conclude no working memory.  If he has EF/ADHD issues, he almost CERTAINLY has low working memory.  A psych tests it with various tests involving digit spans.  They'll do them normally (forward), but they'll also do them backward to see how *hard* the dc is working to get there.  

 

So standardized testing would be one way to get this more objective.  He's 7.5 and that's plenty old enough to be doing some standardized testing.  The IOWA, the Woodcock Johnson, the Stanford, something thorough that can give you objective data on how he compares to his peers.  

 

The other thing you should know is that federal law allows you to request testing through the ps for FREE.  You make a formal written request, and they will do the testing.  They can run a CTOPP, IQ testing, and ADHD screenings.  They can run all that for free for you.  It takes a bit of time, because they have legal windows (30 days to reply to your request, 60 days to do the testing and have a meeting with the reports).  So in 90 days you would have answers to this and the price is right.  

 

Fwiw, the fatigue with reading you're describing is also a dyslexia symptom.  

 

I would do the standardized testing to get an objective measure of where you're at.  Don't do the CAT, because it's really short and just not thorough enough.  I've done it with my dd over the years, because it's brief and satisfies the state.  But for this, actually get something thorough, something that is going to give you some sense of where he's at.  If you go to the school, they'll run achievement testing as part of their battery.   That would work too.  

Edited March 20, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

You might want to consider switching from ETC to something like Wilson Fundations. It is pricey but is designed to serve kids who need more than a typical learn-to-read program like ETC or Hooked on Phonics but less than a heavy-duty intervention program like Barton.

Or AAR or SWR/WRTR or OPGTR or...  or mercy, just about anything.  Some kids just need MORE.  My dd is a super reader now, but she really needed some pretty explicit instruction.  And actually, for her SWR was terrific.  Again, just like with my dyslexic ds, we put those words on flashcards and drilled to fluency.  

 

So to me, I'm surprised that, given his age and the level of frustration, you're not stepping up your instruction.  You can weave instruction into your day so many ways.  I do a lot of environmental print with my ds.  We play Wii and read the text on the screen.  Yes, you can play Wii and call it school, lol!  We read road signs.  We read joke books together.  I try to get more reading in little ways like this.  But as far as actual instruction, step it up.  Short sessions are fine, but increase from *one* short session to two or three!  And make time every day where he goes through his word lists.  I use the Quizlet app and put the words on the kindle.  Works on phone, ipad, whatever.  Or just use old fashioned flashcards, hehe.  

 

When he's not remembering the words he decoded, you're seeing the working memory issues.  His mental RAM (the working memory) is so small that when he reads the word, it drops and doesn't hold and go into his long-term memory.  You can play games to work on this, and it's FUN!  We play lots of board games.  We have some that are therapy games, but any kind of strategy game will involve remembering the steps and thus working memory.  Lazer Maze Jr. is a good one for this.  

 

Fwiw, if he's fine phonologically, it could be a vision problem.  A developmental optometrist could do just a regular annual eval (under $100 in our area) and *screen* for the developmental stuff.  Tracking, convergence, and visual memory issues could explain why someone might skip words, be reluctant to read, or not remember what they read.  It's kind of a normal thing to get your eyes checked, like going to the dentist.  Might be something to do.  You find a developmental optom. through COVD.

Edited March 20, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[caedmyn]

We did explicit phonics instruction last year with Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons. By the end of the year we were both really frustrated with it, so this year I choose something that he (and I) could do without so much frustration, but that did give him more phonics instruction. ETC and Blend Phonics both do that, plus we go over some phonics rules.

 

He is not frustrated with reading on a daily basis. If I tried to make him read a book every day, he'd be frustrated....at least initially, maybe not after a while ETC almost never frustrates him, and he may whine for the first few words of Blend Phonics and then he's fine.

 

And I would not say he gets fatigued with reading. It is more that his attention span is short (with anything, unless he wants to do it), and if he thinks he has too much work to do (in anything), he wants to quit. Math comes very easily to him but he is like this with math too--if he thinks there are too many problems on the page, or he doesn't initially understand the first problem, he wants to quit. Once we work past that reluctance he usually does the page quite quickly.

[Tanaqui]

7 is a little late, but it's not so very late that I'd say "Why didn't you take your child for help already!?" especially in a homeschool setting where it's easy to read aloud to him for subjects like literature, history, or science. And you only started teaching him to read two years ago, right? A little less than, even. I wouldn't panic at this stage, though I'd get concerned if he wasn't reading fairly well by this point next year.

 

However, if you are asking this question now, the wisest thing to do is get him evaluated, the sooner, the better. If you're not an elementary teacher, and this kid's your oldest, then you probably don't have much of a baseline of comparison for what's normal and what's not. If you get him tested and nothing's wrong, then you know. And if you get him tested and something is wrong, then you know what sort of help to get him and he's probably eligible for help through the schools. I've never understood the attitude "I'm sure everything's fine, so I don't want testing done". If everything's fine, what on earth are you afraid of? That's even stranger to me than "I don't want to label my child", to which I say that you can label your child or your child can label your child, but you probably want the label to be "dyslexic" or "ADHD" and not "stupid" or "lazy" or "bad", and without help, your kid only has access to those last labels.

 

And while I hate to say this so bluntly, you don't actually need his father's consent to do this. Your son has two parents, but nobody actually asks for two signatures. (Not that it isn't much better to try to get everybody on the same page! But if you can't... well, your obligation is towards your son. This isn't major surgery we're talking about, it's a few hours of tests.)

[Tanaqui]

It is more that his attention span is short (with anything, unless he wants to do it), and if he thinks he has too much work to do (in anything), he wants to quit.

 

Like so many things, this is something that might be normal (after all, who doesn't prefer fun activities to boring ones?) or that might be a sign of something wrong - in this case, ADHD. Many people don't realize this, but people with ADHD often are able of focusing on things that interest them, even hyperfocusing on those things to the extent of blocking other things out. I bring this up only because I don't want you to close off a certain avenue to explore out of hand, as in "Nah, he doesn't really have attention problems, he focuses just fine on things he enjoys!" Well, I don't know your son, but I do know that sentence doesn't work :)

[elegantlion]

Ds didn't read well on his own until age 9. He didn't really click either, we just increased the difficulty and did some intervention activities. I cannot remember the book we used, geez, I should remember. It was talked about here, but not any of the ones mentioned yet. 

 

He still doesn't love to read, but that may be more personality too as he'll read what he enjoys. 

[Crimson Wife]

 

And while I hate to say this so bluntly, you don't actually need his father's consent to do this. Your son has two parents, but nobody actually asks for two signatures. (Not that it isn't much better to try to get everybody on the same page! But if you can't... well, your obligation is towards your son. This isn't major surgery we're talking about, it's a few hours of tests.)

 

Yes and no. The school district is required to do a free evaluation of any child with suspected learning disabilities including private and home school students. However, if the OP wants to get a private evaluation (which are typically better in my experience), that will cost money. The family's health insurance may pick up a portion of the costs, but even a generous 90/10 split could still cost hundreds out-of-pocket.

 

I know my DH would not want me running up large non-emergency medical bills without both of us being on board with it.

[Tanaqui]

I know my DH would not want me running up large non-emergency medical bills without both of us being on board with it.

 

Fair point about the cost. And to emphasize, even without considering cost, I would not encourage this unless you really can't get your husband on board! As a general rule, I don't think spouses should be routinely going behind each other's backs. I think we can all agree on that :)

 

[herekittykitty]

In addition, please keep in mind that school evaluations may not provide the same standardized tests that a private one would.  The goal of a school evaluation is to determine if the child is eligible for special education. In my state, it is very rare that anything standardized would be used.  So it's free, but keep that in mind.  The goal of a private eval is to determine or rule out any diagnoses, and standardized tests are always used.  

 

I totally understand about the $.  If that is an issue, remember you don't need to have a diagnosis to help your child.  It's better in that case to put your resources towards curriculum and learning how YOU can help your child.  A couple of years ago I did extensive research on the curricula that seem to work best for kids with dyslexia.  This board was a huge source of info.  I put the ones that were most commonly recommended by parents and other experts here:  http://www.decodingdyslexiaiowa.org/homeschooling/.  Given all that you have said, I would skip the eval but don't just sit around and wait for it to click.  I would do as much research as I could online and from books, and choose one of these curricula and get going on it.  Good luck.

[caedmyn]

He did fine on the Barton screen (though keeping him focused on it was a bit trying) and can do everything on the phonological awareness checklist someone else posted. He doesn't have any problems crossing the midline.

 

I truly think that *this* child is following the same learning-to-read progression as the average child, only at a slower pace. That's kind of what happened with learning the alphabet--he didn't pick up any letters or sounds during the (light) preschooling we did. His K year we started by spending a few weeks going over letters and sounds. He was picking up the sounds but still couldn't reliably recognize even one letter, not even in his name. We started 100 EZ Lessons, and when they introduced letter names maybe 3/4 of the way through the book, he picked them up just fine. I guess he just needed time...I didn't do anything special/extra to help him pick them up. And I have taught 3 kids to read and done some volunteering at a Christian school listening to K & 1st graders read, so I have at least a little bit of a frame of reference of what "normal" is. There's nothing that seems off to me about his reading (unlike his ability to focus, where it was apparent by the time he was 3 that something was off there), it's just a slow progression.

 

If he hasn't made a reasonable amount of progress by the end of summer I'll re-evaluate. I think I've found some easy readers he likes and a way to motivate him to read them to me in his non-school time, so we'll see if that helps him make quicker progress.

[Reefgazer]

My DS, who was old-for-grade in 2nd, didn't really become an excellent reader until the middle of second grade.  I was starting to worry, and then one month in the middle of second, he just took of flying with reading.  Literally, it seemed like he went from struggling to fluent within 2-3 weeks.  

[caedmyn]

I am going to switched him over to Abecedarian, which is supposed to be OG-based.  We probably would have used it this whole year if I had known about it before.  I'm going to put my 10 YO in it too...I was looking at the list of dyslexia symptoms at www.dys-add.com and was a bit shocked at how many of the reading and spelling symptoms she had.  I knew she had a lot of trouble sounding out long words, and trouble spelling, but but who would think a kid who was reading fluently at 4.5 YO could have dyslexia symptoms?

 

I have no idea how accurate their tests are, but I had DS1 do a dyslexia test at www.dynaread.com, and his working memory score was 78% of "normal". They used an online memory card game to test it. I was surprised it was lower than normal.  Can't imagine how low MY working memory is...I can't remember more than 4 or 5 card locations at a time when I play memory with my kids.  He did a whole lot better than I would have on that test.

 

Now I'm not sure if I should put my K'er in something OG-based too just to be on the safe side, or if I can stick with regular phonics for him as long as he seems to be doing well in it. 

[PeterPan]

Sounds like a good move!  And yes, if it's good for one, might as well put the others in.  They can just move faster if it's easier for them.

 

Adding: yes, yes, play memory!!  And don't even just play it with pictures that they can name easily.  Try also getting a set that has pictures of emotions or Dr. Seuss characters or things they won't name easily. (That way they're using vision, not auditory.)  With that many kids, you could do memory war and have two games going, trade partners, etc.  Have fun with it.  

 

You can also do digit spans to work on working memory.  That too is something you could do together as a warm-up if you wanted.  For instance go in a circle, with each person saying 3 digits and the next person repeating them and then saying three new digits.  Then go to 4, and so on.  Do a group prize (everyone gets ice creams!) if they accomplish their goal.  You could pick up easter candy next Monday on the cheap and use that for rewards, hehe.  

 

With my ds I've done kinesthetic working memory.  So I'll give a sequence of commands (pat your head, jump twice, hug me) and he has to repeat and then do them.  Tons of working memory, but that way we're working on auditory, getting it to connect to our speech, and getting it in motion.  That's good stuff for when they need to hold their thoughts while writing!

 

An even more sophisticated way would be to do heathermomster's metronome homework and add in digit spans.  That's challenging.  I like the Auditory Memory workbook by Cusmano.  It's maybe $15 on amazon.  Roll with it and get creative.  If you do 5 minutes of work three times a day, you'll definitely see improvement.  

 

Well good, I'm glad you're able to make some changes to your curriculum.  As you're finding, you can be developmentally sensitive AND step up the level of instruction to make it more explicit.  There's a strong overlap between ADHD and dyslexia.  Many kids just really need that extra-explicit instruction.  I hope it goes well for you!   :)

Edited March 23, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[4corners5boys]

I know this is an old thread, but wanted to say my 9 year old (actually 9 1/2)  is just now starting to click with reading.  (I know...most parents would be freaking out if their nine year olds weren't reading...but hopefully it will give others hope).   I had 2 boys click at age 7, one at age 5 (just taught himself to read! :confused1: ) and now my 4th is finally clicking at age nine.   We used Reading Kingdom for about 10 months, and it did help some, but it wasn't until we used abecedarian that it really clicked.  He's now close to finishing workbook C and we'll move on to workbook D.   I wondered if he was dyslexic, but he wan't displaying the classic symptoms, but it was through researching it that I can upon abecedarian on this forum, and I love it.  

[Lori D.]

I know this is an old thread, but wanted to say my 9 year old (actually 9 1/2)  is just now starting to click with reading.  (I know...most parents would be freaking out if their nine year olds weren't reading...but hopefully it will give others hope).   I had 2 boys click at age 7, one at age 5 (just taught himself to read! :confused1: ) and now my 4th is finally clicking at age nine.   We used Reading Kingdom for about 10 months, and it did help some, but it wasn't until we used abecedarian that it really clicked.  He's now close to finishing workbook C and we'll move on to workbook D.   I wondered if he was dyslexic, but he wan't displaying the classic symptoms, but it was through researching it that I can upon abecedarian on this forum, and I love it.  

 

:hurray:  :hurray: So glad for you both! Thanks for sharing!