Glad it was helpful. Right now the blog Classical Scholar is looking at some of these key practices in writing. You might want to check out her blog posts and podcasts to give you a better idea of the approach that ELTL takes. Her post about substitution helped me better understand how to do the exercises in ELTL.

Pam Barnhill is going through each state and adding 8 resources that she found and liked (you tube videos, books, interesting people, activities, etc.). This won't give you the whole history BUT it can give you some ideas to start with. In Texas, going to the state education website, the state standards tell you what is covered in Texas History in 4th grade. (I probably need to do this soon). If your state has something similar, it can give you a good idea of key people and events so that you can more easily google and know what resources to get from the library. The idea of the historical society mentioned above is another good place to start. It might also be fun (depending on the size of your state) to try some of the local history museums and see what you learn from visiting them. Thanks for reminding me that I should probably do some of this! Missy

I have not seen R&S so I a can't compare with that. ELTL provides some specific instruction but it expects the student to write based on what they read/ hear. We have used levels 1 through 3 and will start with 4 this year. It provides more writing opportunities than previous levels but probably not as much as other writing programs. It is CM in the sense that students don't really start written narrations (or compositions) until about 10 which is when most students would be in level 4. She uses some elements that are common in progym programs but because it is an all in one program it doesn't dwell on these matters too much. CAP seems between ELTL and IEW in the way it offers instruction. Since it is solely a composition program it uses the progym but focuses on specific aspects of writing with lots of examples and supports. IEW is probably the most formulaic of these and clearly guides the student on how to construct every step of the paper (from what I have seen). I think all of them can work and depend on the child and the teacher. In my opinion, using ELTL and CAP would be somewhat redundant unless you wanted CAP to provide you with a bit more support and examples for specific aspects of writing. They are both progym approaches. If you want to introduce more creative writing or free writing I would think something like Bravewriter would be a better fit to accomplish that. We use ELTL as our spine but I teach middle and high school history at a coop and I use pieces of CAP to introduce different writing concepts. After using level 4 of ELTL I might pull some of her exercises as well. We have really enjoyed ELTL and writing our narrations will be a big step for us this year. His oral narrations are great after spending a few years in this program. So he has the thought process, now we just have to learn the writing process. Hope you find a combination that works for your family.

Novare science and math has a teacher book that covers basic physics concepts. Basically you would educate yourself and then include it in whatever you do with your children. He taught high school for 15 years and had 36 graduate hours in physics and realized elementary teachers had no idea what should be covered at an earlier age. Thus this text for teachers and parents to get them up to speed. http://novarescienceandmath.com/catalog/set-v1/ Hope you find something that fits. Missy

Elson Primer and the series is another choice.

The Center for Lit might provide some helpful ideas for developing questions and delving into the books that you like. http://www.centerforlit.com/teaching-the-classics. They don't do as much unit studies or integration but it might help you find connections.

We did Emma Serl's Primary Language Lessons when we were in the same holding pattern. If she likes to write Most Wonderful Lessons might be fun. It provides a totally different approach to writing. You can always just choose books and pull copywork from them as well.

Hi. She doesn't remind you do to the oral narration after every story in level 3 (you don't need to do it for EVERY story). I think she does mention it more frequently in the younger levels. You can also ask them to narrate the literature book they are reading. Every 6 lessons it says "Writing: Written Narration" and the title says which story should have the written narration - For example: Narration: Beauty and the Brownie is the title for lesson 18. You are always narrating one of the tales. If you have the workbook she provides two pages for the narration (my son is not wordy so we normally get about 1/2 a page) and then another page for the dictation. Glad it has been helpful.

We also did the memory work for Latin in CC and I think it is very helpful. If you are looking for nouns to start with this is my FAVORITE public domain book for that. Tons of examples for the newbie. If you are interested in starting to try and read stories in Latin you could check out the Olim stories in Latin. If you want more of a challenge you can try these interlinear fables. This is probably too much - but who knows maybe just memorizing a few fables could go a long way! If you want to read the Bible interlinearly -here is a resource for that as well. Here is another public domain book that starts with two word sentences and goes from there. The interlinear translations begin on page 67. I had forgotten about this one. You could easily add a "phrase a day" type of thing and cover a lot of territory without too much difficulty. This might be our solution for next year. Elementary Latin by Smith is another public domain option. It is a high school text but her appendix (starts on pg. 275) has great ideas for ways to teach Latin, popular Latin quotations, all the state mottoes in Latin, an outline of what vocabulary you should teach first and second semester, and a good list of English derivatives from Latin. She has a great plan for teaching students derivatives - this is something you might be able to do orally at this point. Her ideas could be translated into oral exercises (at least some of them) pretty easily. I imagine you are familiar with I Speak Latin which is a TPRS approach to Latin. CAP also has FREE printable declension and conjugation pages along with vocabulary cards that might be helpful and could be used a variety of ways. Check the tab that says resources. If you are REALLY crazy you could work on memorizing the tables of personal pronouns, etc. They are hard and will probably work better through reading BUT . . . that is what is covered in English in CC this year so you could line that up if you wanted to try. There are lots of options out there. I think I just need to pick one and go with it. Thanks for helping me review what I have gathered.

ELTL takes a longer view on writing - more in line with traditional classical approaches and CM. CM did not encourage students to begin writing narrations until they were at least 10, before that students perfect the oral narration. By age 10 most children are comfortable with the physical aspects of writing, have more things worth saying and many have a better grasp of spelling so there aren't as many stumbling blocks to getting thoughts onto paper. I am finishing up level 3 of ELTL with my oldest who is 9 and in "3rd grade". (I actually started ELTL too early with him and had to take a break year before we did the 3rd level). The first two levels focus primarily on copywork so that students see and write things worth the knowing and correctly. In level 3, students work on narrating a piece over the course of 2 weeks (6 lessons). The teacher writes the "final narration" for them and the student does studied dictation from that narration. Dictation is a bridge for both spelling and composition in more classical traditions. It is a bridge for spelling because students are to study the words that are a part of the dictation - see them in their minds - and learn to spell them as a part of the process (mine is NOT great at this). It is a bridge for writing because it moves the child from directly copying to needing to recall how the sentence is put together (punctuation, capitalization, spelling, etc.) so that they match the model exactly. Devore does a great job explaining how to do studied dictation in the introduction of these books. In level 3 she also introduces exercises that help students think about word choice and sentence construction. (So to the question of spelling - if you think your child can learn to spell through dictation and copywork then ELTL is enough. If not, you might want a more directed approach. Also, traditionally spelling was not really something that was a focus until at least 8 or 9 - unless you are using a program that uses spelling as the basis of reading) We will start level 4 next year and I can see that it has more written composition activities. These are in keeping with the progymnasmata rather than our current method of teaching writing. If your children are not regularly narrating aloud then you are missing the composition piece of the program in levels 1 and 2. (if you want to learn more about narration this is a good podcast) This idea that oral narration should be the primary form of development until at least 9 was pretty standard, only recently have we started to encouraging writing paragraphs and essays earlier than that. Also, we are used to more "creative" writing and then wonder why our kids have very little to say. The approach that ELTL uses gives students the text and subject to think about so that they are focusing on composition and not topic selection and coming up with ideas. Eventually, they will come up with their own thoughts (it's called invention and it used to be learned starting around 11 or 12). When they are this young,if you want to focus on actual composition, it is best to give them something to work with (IEW, CAPs program and MP all work on the same premise). Through a co-op we added more English this year. I kept ELTL though because I think it is simple and thorough. My son's teacher was impressed with his grammar knowledge (trust me - he does the bare minimum) and he can compose aloud pretty much on the fly now (which he tried to do when he left his homework at home). Level 4, moving into more written composition, is where he is at (he will be turning 10 - just like all the old English teachers say)! The co-op did have a more traditional approach to writing and we did the homework. In the end, he learned more from our narration, copywork and dictation in ELTL. He did write a "research paper" but it made me appreciate the process ELTL takes all the more. All that to say, if you are hearing about your friends in PS writing the five paragraph essay in 3rd grade - that is not what ELTL is designed to do. The approach is totally different. This deep desire to do everything earlier does not necessarily mesh with a student's real ability. Because oral composition pretty much CAN'T happen in school (too many children and no written record) they can't use it. However, if you read older texts about teaching English they ALL assume that oral composition is the foundation of composition. Likewise, if you are looking for a more current "creative writing" curriculum this is not it. She takes the traditional approach that by hearing good stories (and lots of them) students will become more creative storytellers. By reading and narrating these stories they learn about themes, characters, descriptions, settings, etc. naturally and will bring them to mind as they start to try their hand at their own stories. There is a method to her madness, it is a the more traditional approach and it won't get results "as fast" as our modern programs. It is incremental but age appropriate and helps students feel successful as they move through the steps. Your students will "catch up" and have so much more to say because they have had such a varied background - fables, tales, poems, nature stories, great books, etc. - that she has put all at your fingertips in ELTL. They will write because it is the natural way to reflect on what they are reading and learning. It helps them to order their thoughts and share them with others. It encourages them to see writing as a natural part of learning - not something you do just for an assignment. This turned out very long - but hopefully it is helpful.

We really liked adventures in America here. I will pull it back out next year and do it with the 8 and 5 yo. The books are just good reads and the 8 yo might read some of them to the little ( if he progresses that far in his reading). I think you'll enjoy it. Missy

Wayfarers might be a good choice too. It is very scheduled and includes all grades with a 4 year cycle. At her website her preview includes all of the sources she uses in a year and the schedule for the first two weeks. Enough for you to get a pretty good sense of how it might (or might not) work for you. I love the content but I struggle following someone else's schedule. Since she is very CM unless you are using her English program she suggests narrations. If you want something more than just narrations you might want to use the questions from Teaching the Classics as others have mentioned. Link to curriculum previews http://barefootmeandering.com/site/wayfarers/ Cathy Duffy's review http://cathyduffyreviews.com/unit-studies/wayfarers-history.htm

I am reading this thread with much interest. I just found it and look forward to reading the full text recommended in the begining. Someone asked at one point about a book that would help the parent think about how to teach the numbers through 20. There is a vintage math program that does just that. It is oral and uses pictures that look like dominoes to help explain concepts. Just an interesting addition. It also teaches ALL operations as you learn the number. There is some slate work at the bottom but that could easily be adjusted to meet the needs of your child. Again, I know that her whole point is to not use a text book but if as the parent you are interested in examples of how to teach the concepts around each number this might be helpful. Thanks for finding this great older book. I can't wait to read more about poetry memorization too!

Your child's age does impact their experience. We have done it for 3 years and one of my sons had just turned 4 when we started- it fit him. Next year we aren't going to do it again because my current 4 yo really wouldn't do well in that environment. For young kids it is rote and at times I question its real value. For 7 or 8 and above I think it has a fair amount of benefit. At CC coop you are just supposed to memorize but most moms I know add some context at home. Cycle 2 - next year's is my favorite cycle. It seemed to be the most put together. CC is neo classical which believes in kids just memorizing because they can and some really can and enjoy it - others not so much. I will say that in our experience if your oldest child is 4 or 5 many of these families drop out because it really isn't very developmentally appropriate. If you have older kids participating it makes it easier for the littles. Like most programs you have to determine if it fits your philosophy and personality.

We enjoyed Adventures in America as well. If you want a free geography program to memorize the states and learn a bit about them you can check here - 8 for each state. http://edsnapshots.com/us-geography-homeschool/ beautiful feet books has a good program too. Authors to look for include Robert Clyde Bulla, Jean Fritz, D'Aulaires, Patricia MacLahan (sp) and of course Little House are great reads.

This is probably the best explanation that I have found of why they have so many history streams going at once. http://www.adelectableeducation.com/2015/12/episode-12-chronology-of-history.html. It is a podcast, show notes and sample history rotation based very closely on what happened in CM schools. I imagine most people tweak it for themselves. I am still trying to figure out what we will do next year with my 4th grader.

We have a nursery coordinator (mom volunteer) who finds paid nursery workers ( college students, moms with just 1 little). Some semesters moms have also rotated through. We pay by semester. Our whole community has "pizza fundraisers" a few times a year to help cover some of the costs ( for families with a bunch of littles). One year we had 23 kids in nursery!!! Next year I think there will be less than 10. We are also a little bit lax about kids in the class - as long as they are not disturbing. I think there is a drop in fee but I am not sure what it is.

He sounds like a great candidate for narrating the story back to you. Narration is a multifaceted skill even though it sounds very simple. There is a great series about what it is and how to do it on Simply Charlotte Mason. You can keep the worksheets and stuff if they are intersted but having him narrate will cement the stories, make it simpler and show you if he really does "get it" the way he says he does. My oldest is not into coloring or crafting but he can tell you most things he has heard or read after one reading. It really is a great life skill. Here is a good podcast overview of it http://edsnapshots.com/ymb10/.

The author of Writing through History has put together a collection of you tube videos, etc. for each of the parts of the 4 year cycle. It has some great resources. Right now Compass Classrooms has a bunch of audio stories for FREE (I don't know if it is just this week) but they are recordings of old-timey radio history shows - so it tells good stories about presidents, etc.

John Hudson Tiner has a series of books for middle school science "exploring the world of (chemistry, medicine, physics, etc.) . . ." She could probably narrate through those fairly easily. Memoria Press does have them all available with study guides if you really want her to fill in blanks, etc. Novare Science is probably a pretty deep science curriculum so might be a bit intimidating but there are one or two levels for middle school aged kiddos. Lyrical science is technically meant for the middle school grades and it is a totally different and fun approach. For middle school history - does she have a time period she loves? Maybe just let her dwell in one time period reading what she likes from it. The medieval time period has tons of good stories available. Maybe pick a favorite subject (clothing, horses, whatever) and study its history - seeing how it has changed over time or influenced culture. Everything has a history so just pick something she likes and let her learn about it for a little while. Bill Bryson is always a fun somewhat historic read - Home is a good one (although I wasn't reading with concern for adult content - so you might want to check it).

If you are looking for a more general framework you might look at the Daily 5. It is a public school framework but it is helpful to think about what you should do pretty much daily. The five are: Read to Self, (looking at books, reading on level or a bit below - you want to build confidence) Work on Writing, (handwriting, copywork, sentences - whatever level they are at) Read to Someone, (even if it is just letter sounds or telling a story from pictures - maybe a younger sibling or even the dog) Listen to Reading, (read alouds or books on tape during quiet time, maybe even an older child's read aloud) Word Work. (phonics into spelling) So, most programs have all (or most) of these components. Then it is just a matter of determining which type of program works best for her (open and go or something a little bit more free form). Next you just figure out how much time you should spend on each subject area - honestly I wouldn't recommend more than 10 to 15 minutes in any area at a time. If you want "more time" I would suggest splitting them up 10 in the morning and 10 in the afternoon. Read to self at this stage can include just looking at books and telling stories from the pictures if they are not great readers yet (this can happen during quiet time). For some kids it wouldn't be necessary to do ALL these things EVERY DAY at this age but over the course of the week they should be covered in some way.

Are you thinking about penmanship as in learning cursive or a special type of writing? All copywork reinforces penmanship (as mentioned above). Barefoot Ragamuffin does have a series called Handwriting Lessons Through Literature. It might be a bit too simple for a 2nd grader - you'll have to judge. Instead of looking for a special copywork program maybe you could have a sheet that shows proper strokes and have him compare his letters when he is off. Remember you do want the best handwriting so better a little done well versus a lot done poorly. The post above is great. For cursive I like Peterson's or Don Potter's. Here is Peterson's manuscript. I am not a fan of how Peterson's cursive looks but I like the rhythm and strokes so I have changed some of the roll tops to sharp tops, etc. to make it look better.

I agree with Cursive First at Peterson's above. It is not the prettiest (you can see all the letters here) but it does teach strokes and puts them together quickly. I do not follow it exactly (I hate the letter c they use) and I also use the idea of clock time and upstairs, downstairs, basement from the program Cursive First (start at the 10 and go to the 2). My 4 yo went to preschool very part time (at grandma's behest) and learned all UPPERCASE letters - UGH! So, we had to go back and teach lowercase cursive. In my estimation it is easier because it always starts in the same place - on a line - and ends in the same place. There are a few connectors which can be more difficult - but compared with constantly having to decide where to start ball and stick I think it is much easier. Don Potter's Shortcut to cursive also uses strokes, is less than 20 pages and a free PDF! As far as curriculum, many of the copywork programs I use have a cursive font option. It may not look EXACTLY like what we have but it is close enough. I will say that my 9 yo sometimes has trouble communicating with friends because he is cursive first and his friends haven't learned cursive. Maybe that is our summer project - some manuscript letters. I am a little surprised he hasn't just picked it up on his own.

We love listening to Mercy Watson stories on CD (from the library). The guy who does the voices is great. They might also like Hank the Cowdog - so much better on CD than just read aloud by me. You might want to listen to one and see if your kids will like it yet. Uncle Remus stories and Among the Barnyard People by Dillingham Pierson (sp), Velveteen Rabbit, Fifty Famous Stories and others on librivox. We also like some of the stories on The Barefoot Books app. I have a pinterest board that is audio and regular read aloud booklists for this age group.

Progressive phonics has a huge series of readers online for free. If you are looking for older readers (meaning McGuffey,Elson, etc.) some are still on Google books some aren't - you just have to search and see. Missy