WWYD? Job opportunity for dh

[Tap]

Dh is a district manager, and has worked for 3 companies in 10 years.  He was laid off of his last job due to declining market for his product and took a job with his current company last spring.  He is very underpaid for this position, but part of why he took it was that it was supposed to only be 45hr work week. He was really trying to focus on work/life balance at the time he took the job.  It was 15 minutes from home and his work day would not hit rush hour traffic very often.  He would cover a few sales routes (doing the job of the people he manages) a couple times per year, but not very often. His benefits are low/average.  He had 3 job offers the week he took this job, and the work/life balance is what tipped him in favor of this job despite the wage.  After a year of lower wages, we are all feeling the financial strain.  I have had to return to work full time and we still live on quite a bit less than we used to (the extra money is our spending money, so it is really noticeable that it is gone).  Promises of shorter work days has not happened.  He had to work out-of-town for at least 8 weeks so far this year to cover for his employees and has only had maybe 10 days where he worked under 10 hours.  

 

About a month ago, he got a phone call from a company he applied with last year. A large national/ international company with a solid reputation. He did a phone interview but declined scheduling further interviews because the opportunity they were calling about would mean he would potentially have to relocate.  In the interview process he found out that the next step in the hiring process, would have him interviewing with an person he used to work with 8 years ago.  Despite him turning down the job, this person he knows called him out of the blue yesterday.  They had a long talk and they offered him another job.

 

The good, the bad, the details: New job offer/current job

 

The bad:

~The job is 60 miles away, 50 miles of which are freeway. Drive time will be 10hr per week. Current job averages 4 hours per week drive time, but some weeks he doesn't come home at all if he has to work out of town. Working out of town means putting in 60+ hours.

~The work day is likely 10 hours (common for DMs), and has a later morning start time, which means he could be working 10am-10pm. (10hrs work +2 hours drive). Unfortunately, this puts him back up to a 60 hour work week.   Current job averages 50-60 work hours + 4 drive time=54-64 hours week.

~Company car doesn't come home, which means we need to buy another vehicle +insurance +gas.  He has had a company car with all expenses paid, OR a generous vehicle allowance in every DM job he has had.  He is going to see if they will consider a signing bonus  to help with buying a car, but no matter what, we would just buy an older car with good fuel mileage that can get ran into the ground.  Right now, his work car is a funky little sprinter van, but all expenses, including personal miles, are paid for by the company.

 

The good:

~The starting wage is $25,000 more than he makes now, and has  better benefits.  It is more in line with traditional compensation for his position and experience.  The chance that the position could move closer to home is remote. We would not move to be closer to his job. My work and our low, low mortgage will keep us rooted here. His current company was being ran into the ground by a bad boss.  He is gone now, so things are slowly improving. The new boss definitely knows what he is doing but needs time to make changes. DH thinks that the 45 hour work week is possible in the future, under the new manager. Despite the low wage, dh is topped out for his position.  They gave him every penny they could and extra vacation time to get him to take the job in the first place.  There is no known wiggle room for a counter offer if he decides to quit. 

~His dad lives 30 miles from the new company.  Dh is thinking he may sleep there a few times per week to reduce the driving.  The ILs have an apartment on the property and could use a little help around the place.

~The new company is huge.  There will inevitably be turn over and opportunity for career growth.  The old company has very little turn over and there is almost zero chance of growth for DH in the next 5-10 years. There are only 2 positions above him in our area,at his current company and lots of other DMs with years of experience who would move up before dh. 

 

Random Detail: 

Dh only has a high school diploma. Due to this, he can't apply for most DM jobs, despite 10 years experience and several awards from those companies. With online job applications, you have to check a box for education and most employers, have the bench mark for a DM set at a minimum of bachelors degree.   It is hard for him to find jobs to even apply for. It isn't like the old days where you could drop off a resume and hope they don't notice.  LOL 

 

 

 

To simplify it 

Good: $25,000 raise, opportunity for advancement, better benefits

Bad: Car expenses (likely $8,000 per year), 2 hrs drive each day, odd work schedule, never home for dinner (will always eat alone after 10pm), 60hr work week.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Tap

[TranquilMind]

That's a tough one.  If there is any chance that current company will fold, I would go for more established company.  I would do a lot of investigation first on what is really going on, and why there is an opening, of course.  If the last 3 quit quickly in succession, there is a reason for that.  Background checking is everything.  Since he knows a guy at the new company, hopefully, he can get the full scoop. 

 

 

[Guest]

Oh that IS tough. In the new job I'd try to negotiate for a higher salary to make it make more sense because of the added hours and drive time. In essence he isn't getting paid much more given the expenses and sunk time that the new job will require of him. But if he can negotiate more vacation time or another 10-15k in salary it would tilt the balance more favorably for the new job, you know?

[Tap]

That's a tough one.  If there is any chance that current company will fold, I would go for more established company.  I would do a lot of investigation first on what is really going on, and why there is an opening, of course.  If the last 3 quit quickly in succession, there is a reason for that.  Background checking is everything.  Since he knows a guy at the new company, hopefully, he can get the full scoop. 

Both companies have been around for 50+ years and are stable. 

 

The opening is due to growth in the area (economy is stabilizing in our area)  and them adding an additional DM position.  

Edited February 18, 2016 by Tap

[TranquilMind]

Both companies have been around for 50+ years and are stable. 

 

The opening is due to growth in the area (economy is stabilizing in our area)  and them adding an additional DM position.  

Well, is he up for that much driving for $25,000 more a year?  Is it likely that promotions will happen?  Is it possible that you might reconsider relocating if this works out? 

[StephanieZ]

Can you relocate nearer the new job after your 17 yo graduates from high school? 

 

If you could do that, I'd plan that, and jump on the new job.

[Tap]

Well, is he up for that much driving for $25,000 more a year?  Is it likely that promotions will happen?  Is it possible that you might reconsider relocating if this works out? 

He doesn't love the idea of that much driving, but he doesn't mind driving per se.  It would be an easy 'throw it on cruise control' and chat with his friends on Bluetooth type drive. But he knows...it will get old, fast. 

 

The city that the job is based in, is not a great city.  I will never live there, but there are lots of places in  the 60 miles between my job and his. No matter what, I won't leave this area for 2.5 years (dd17 is in high school and I made a deal with ds that he could live at home for free while he finished his Master's degree).  

 

Promotions are hard to count on.  You never know, but at least there will be potential openings.  At his current company, he knows that it isn't even a possibility. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Tap

[fairfarmhand]

I think I'd take the new job. It seems that even though there'd be more driving, his day will not change that drastically. and he'd be getting paid more. If he was getting too stressed he could stay overnight twice a week with parents (and with him not getting home till 10 and working 12 hr days, what would be the point of actually coming home every day anyway? and if he's currently traveling for work anyhow, what would be the difference?)

 

I typically am not a fan of the long commutes for families, but between the 2 options new job is the better one IMHO with a better future and  better benefits. Your kids also need you and your dh to be saving for the future.

 

Is there a way for him to work 2 hours over (12 hour days, staying overnight with parents) and take a long weekend, being home every Friday? If so, that'd definitely tip the scales to switch jobs.

Edited February 18, 2016 by fairfarmhand

[katilac]

I'd say it depends on whether he is trying to ramp up or slow down his career. 

 

Ramping up, he takes the new job.

 

Slowing down, he keeps the old job. By slowing down, I mean hanging in there till retirement in 10 years or so, not looking for promotions, knowing he can manage on the salary for a long time and has some retirement savings. 

 

You have a younger child, so I'm guessing he's in it for the long term - if so, I would take the new job and strongly consider an online degree. He should be able to get some credits for work experience. It will be hard for a few years but is likely to have a good payoff that will last for a long time. And it looks like he is either looking at really hard for a while, or kind of hard for a very long time. 

[TranquilMind]

I'd say it depends on whether he is trying to ramp up or slow down his career. 

 

Ramping up, he takes the new job.

 

Slowing down, he keeps the old job. By slowing down, I mean hanging in there till retirement in 10 years or so, not looking for promotions, knowing he can manage on the salary for a long time and has some retirement savings. 

 

You have a younger child, so I'm guessing he's in it for the long term - if so, I would take the new job and strongly consider an online degree. He should be able to get some credits for work experience. It will be hard for a few years but is likely to have a good payoff that will last for a long time. And it looks like he is either looking at really hard for a while, or kind of hard for a very long time. 

I agree with this.

I will add that the only time we have seen significant boosts in income is with lateral moves, not promotions. 

[LucyStoner]

Unless he is pushing retirement age, I think he needs to get a degree from a regionally accredited school. There are some quality online options for business majors.

 

It's not only hard to get hired without a degree, it hampers his income potential and his chances for a promotion later on.

 

If I were him I would base the job decision on which job will make it easier to get a degree. Does either company offer tuition reimbursement?

Edited February 18, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Tap]

I think I'd take the new job. It seems that even though there'd be more driving, his day will not change that drastically. and he'd be getting paid more. If he was getting too stressed he could stay overnight twice a week with parents (and with him not getting home till 10 and working 12 hr days, what would be the point of actually coming home every day anyway? and if he's currently traveling for work anyhow, what would be the difference?)

 

I typically am not a fan of the long commutes for families, but between the 2 options new job is the better one IMHO with a better future and  better benefits. Your kids also need you and your dh to be saving for the future.

 

Is there a way for him to work 2 hours over (12 hour days, staying overnight with parents) and take a long weekend, being home every Friday? If so, that'd definitely tip the scales to switch jobs.

He can't change the work days/hours, and he can't work from home.  He has to be there when his employees get back to the office to do paper work with them.  That is why he has to be there so late...he has to stay until the last employee gets in at night. 

 

I am thinking that he can stack the two sleep over nights at his parents on the days that he is least likely to see us anyways.  That way there is very little time away from home on those nights.

 

He traveled for 2 years on his previous job and has spent many weeks away this past year. The kids and I have our lives set, so that we don't count on him being home. It wouldn't be hard on us at all for him to be gone.

 

He knows what it is like to live on the road, but at least by staying at his parents, we can buy him an extra set of bathroom gear so he doesn't have to pack all the time, and he can have someone to eat breakfast with in the mornings.  One of his biggest complaints about traveling is eating all his meals alone. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Tap

[Liz CA]

As usual with these things, a lot of variables come into play: I just like to throw questions out there for possible consideration - not to be answered on the board unless you feel it helps with mulling things over and is anonymous enough.

 

How old are you and what are plans for retirement? Is he planning on retiring at some point or is he happily planning to work as long as possible?

Is a relocation an option several years from now if not presently? This could then change some of the dynamics of being home earlier.

Will you still have to / want to work even if he makes more money? If so, can you find a job in your field where his new job would be? Work from home?

By raw comparison, the $25,000 increase in salary versus the $8000 in new car probably tips things in favor of the $25000.

Are the long-term benefits good at this potential company, i.e., 401K etc.?

Is a full work load too stressful for him and could be endangering his health or can he handle it but just chose to accept current job in hopes the decreased income would still suffice and afford him more time with family?

 

If he does not accept this offer and stays at current compensation, will you be comfortable with the amount you both make?

 

I may think of more fun questions later because some days, I can analyze things to death... :lol:

 

 

 

[Tap]

Unless he is pushing retirement age, I think he needs to get a degree from a regionally accredited school. There are some quality online options for business majors.

 

It's not only hard to get hired without a degree, it hampers his income potential and his chances for a promotion later on.

 

If I were him I would base the job decision on which job will make it easier to get a degree. Does either company offer tuition reimbursement?

He can't get a degree because he doesn't have the time.  No matter what DM job he has had, he works 55+ hours  a week.  There really just ins't enough time in the day for him to push that hard at work and then come home to school.  School doesn't come naturally for him, that is why he only had a HS diploma.

[Reefgazer]

If you really can't/move move, I would take the job and see how it goes.  If all goes well, you can re-consider the move closer in a year or so.  $25K is serious cash, and not only will it ease finances now, but it will give DH leverage for his next job ("I currently make $ X and expect a promotion of Y %")

[Liz CA]

He can't get a degree because he doesn't have the time.  No matter what DM job he has had, he works 55+ hours  a week.  There really just ins't enough time in the day for him to push that hard at work and then come home to school.  School doesn't come naturally for him, that is why he only had a HS diploma.

 

Just another thought on the degree issue. There are now online schools that let you go as slow as one class per semester / quarter. If it would make a big difference down the road, perhaps it's worth considering. It will take a while but eventually he will be done.

[Chris in VA]

If he's willing, I'd say go for the new job. I like the idea of staying over at his parents'.

Does he have weekends free? I'd make sure that stays free--really guard that time as your family time. You want to continue to build into your teen, and really put in lots of "deposits" in the "bank" of your youngest. I know that sounds kinda silly, but I think it's super important. Make sure you carve out time for you two, also.

[Tap]

As usual with these things, a lot of variables come into play: I just like to throw questions out there for possible consideration - not to be answered on the board unless you feel it helps with mulling things over and is anonymous enough.  

 

Thanks, over analyzing helps me to think things through too.  LOL This is exactly why I posted this here, to get some fresh eyes on the situation.

 

How old are you and what are plans for retirement? Is he planning on retiring at some point or is he happily planning to work as long as possible?  Low 40's. He planned to retire at 60ish, but so many job changes in the past few years likely puts that off till 65.  We contribute 10-20% to our retirements no matter what, and plan to use it at some point in time.  LOL  He is a work-a-holic though, so I don't think he will ever really retire.

Is a relocation an option several years from now if not presently? This could then change some of the dynamics of being home earlier. Relocation can't happen for 3 years, and honestly I don't want to live where his new job will be.

Will you still have to / want to work even if he makes more money? If so, can you find a job in your field where his new job would be? Work from home? His raise is only about 1/2 of what I bring in. I have always worked even when I home schooled 2 kids full time. My paycheck has always been optional in our lifestyle, but definitely used.  LOL I can transfer fairly easily with my company to any major city on the West Coast and Mid-West.  I am a pharmacy technician so my job is easy to replace if I needed to leave my company. 

By raw comparison, the $25,000 increase in salary versus the $8000 in new car probably tips things in favor of the $25000. Yeah, the money part works out pretty good in the new companies favor.  LOL  

Are the long-term benefits good at this potential company, i.e., 401K etc.? The new company has much better benefits, but I don't know the details on how they affect us in actual $$.

Is a full work load too stressful for him and could be endangering his health or can he handle it but just chose to accept current job in hopes the decreased income would still suffice and afford him more time with family? He is a work-a-holic so work is what he does.  LOL with or without a paycheck, he will always go above and beyond for his job. That is why he has won so many awards at his companies over the years. Good or bad, it is, who he is. 

 

He used to work 70hrs a week a few years ago, so going down to 60 is still an improvement. LOL 

 

If he does not accept this offer and stays at current compensation, will you be comfortable with the amount you both make? His paycheck pays all the household bills and retirement, but that is just about it. I work to have some fun money and to buy things like gifts, help with the kids school/sports etc.  We  unexpectedly ended up with a bonus kid (special needs great-niece) so our economic future was greatly impacted.  I couldn't work as much (I needed to be home with her) and her need are expensive.  The biggest savings fund that was hit, was the college funds.  The new job would make helping to get the kids through college that much easier.  

 

I may think of more fun questions later because some days, I can analyze things to death... :lol: Ask away!

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Tap

[Eliz]

If he is willing to consider working toward a degree, some colleges / universities grant credit for life experience or at least they used to do that.  It's sad how many companies require a degree.  Good people are too often overlooked.

[BusyMom5]

 Current job is not really working out the way you had planned- more hours than you had planned and a lot more traveling... plus their pay is very low.  I think new job sounds like a much better deal.  You are early 40s, that 3 years you plan to stay in your current home will go by very fast,and with his parents so close I think the commute won't be that bad.  There are cons (the biggest one I see is he won't see the kids as much), but it sounds like he isn't there a lot already, and the benefits of the new job really out-weigh the old one.

[TechWife]

It sounds like the new job would be better. This is my reasoning: 

 

- Taking his education level into consideration, this sounds like a fantastic offer. It's not likely to repeat anytime soon, KWIM? 

- He has topped out the salary at his current job. At most he would get a COL raise, and they often don't keep pace with the real COL

- The new job puts him into a place where he can possibly move up or around to different areas over time (I see this as good not just from an income perspective, but an interest perspective as well). 

- He has a place to crash for a night or two if he's too tired to drive home, or even regularly if the two of you choose that

-Even though things are looking up at his current company, there is no way to know how long the process will take or what form it will take in the long run. 

- Even if you would never live in the city with the new job, there may be a suitable place closer in to the job at some point in the future, so I wouldn't rule it out for reasons of the commute alone. 

 

 

 

 

 

[FaithManor]

If you don't have enough put away for retirement, then I would definitely be inclined to take the new job, and have him spend two or three nights per week at his parents home to ease his schedule until dd graduates, then move somewhere in between the two locations.

 

Job security and the ability to put away money for retirement, not live pay check to pay check, is so important these days.

 

Will there be any savings with health insurance? Sometimes you get lucky and get an HSA with employer contribution or a policy with a lower deductible, or maybe even both. That is another potential savings right there and the difference in what you pay now for out pocket medical and what you'd be paying with the better policy could be put into retirement savings.

[fraidycat]

It really sounds like the new job is a better deal in the long run with more opportunities for advancement and padding the retirement/college accounts. Especially with the ability to spend 2-3 nights/week at his parents' place. If I were in his position, I'd commute Mon- Tue/Wed, then stay Wed/Thu-Fri @ parents to be rested enough to enjoy the weekend @ home with the family.

 

I totally get the quality of life issue. My DH works ridiculous hours + commutes. We could've shortened his commute time on our last move (last month), but chose to remain closer to friends and activities because he would still work ridiculous hours either way. The kids and I would be more isolated and participate less if we moved closer to his job, but we really wouldn't get to spend that much more time with him.

[ktgrok]

If you really can't/move move, I would take the job and see how it goes.  If all goes well, you can re-consider the move closer in a year or so.  $25K is serious cash, and not only will it ease finances now, but it will give DH leverage for his next job ("I currently make $ X and expect a promotion of Y %")

 

This is my thinking. The chances of getting another job like this are so slim...he got this mainly because he knew someone. That may not happen again. Take the job, if only to get it on his resume so if he looks for something else he has that salary on there. 

[ktgrok]

Also, once your oldest graduates, or even before, you might be able to go and stay with the in laws now and then, if you like them, and get more time with hubby that way. 

[Lanny]

I would try to get the new company to bend and provide your DH with a company car. If they wouldn't go for that, I'd probably take it anyway. If his current employer has no growth opportunity for your DH for 5 or 10 years, he is in a dead end and possibly on a sinking ship. Get the best WRITTEN  CONTRACT you can AND DO NOT PERMIT ANYTHING AMBIGUOUS.  GL

[lmrich]

I would have him take the new job. That is enough money to make a difference. I also think spending time with his parents will be precious time for them. In 2 years, you can move closer, and if needed you can find a new job close to home if you would like. If you life moves as fast as our those 2 years will fly.

[katilac]

He can't get a degree because he doesn't have the time.  No matter what DM job he has had, he works 55+ hours  a week.  There really just ins't enough time in the day for him to push that hard at work and then come home to school.  School doesn't come naturally for him, that is why he only had a HS diploma.

 

Keep in mind that the online business schools are used to dealing with very busy students who don't really want to be in school! 

 

I would at least get some information, if he hasn't done that already. University of Phoenix grants credit for work experience, company trainings, certifications, all kinds of stuff. They even have a cell phone app that lets you post to discussion forums (as part of class) whenever you have a few minutes during the workday. 

 

Companies generally have no problem with their degree, particularly for good workers with experience who just need to check that box. 

 

Anyway, not trying to push the idea on him, just wanting to make sure he knows that some of these schools really bend over backwards for working students who aren't academically inclined. 

[kroe1]

I work roughly 1 1/2 hours from home. I drive a Class B RV and stay on property while I am working rather than coming home. Can your DH do that?

[Carol in Cal.]

New job, hands down.

The old job isn't fulfilling your money or work/life balance goals.  At least the new one would fulfill your financial ones.

I'd say to try to adjust the family a bit around his new schedule, too.  For instance, if he is starting later in the day, can you all get up early and have family time over breakfast instead of dinner?

My husband does not have a college degree but is very well employed.  It is always iffy, though, and he has lost out more than once to newcomers with degrees.  So be aware of that possibility going forward.  

[Forget-Me-Not]

I think consider the new job and use some of the extra income to play catch-up with your retirement fund.

[Katy]

Yep, new job.  If he actually had improved work/life balance now, then it might matter, but he doesn't.  Take the higher pay.

[Kim in Appalachia]

That's hard.  The commute would be a killer.  I don't know if I could go for that even with the more money, but the thing that stuck out for me was the chance for growth within the other company.  

 

My sister only has a high school diploma, and I know how hard it is for her to get above a certain level.  Her current job has been her best, and there is a real chance for promotion and greater responsibility. For her, that was worth the pay cut she took to get the job.  She has already received bonuses. It's been worth it.

 

So, the chance for growth is big, and may make it worth it.  And while I understand you could not move now, 5 years from now could be different, especially if he got a good promotion.  

 

And :grouphug:  it's not an easy decision.  

[Kim in Appalachia]

Something else I thought of as well.  If your dh would for some reason lose his current job, when he started looking elsewhere his current salary could be considered his base.  I suppose that may not be true in your dh's industry, but I know it is true for most jobs.

 

Also, in today's market, you should always be thinking that you'll be moving on in at least 3 yrs (even if it may be longer). If your current position is unable to improve within that time frame (better position or pay) then you should be looking to move on.  

 

The more I have thought about it, the more I think I would take the new job.