Parenthood (the show)

[PeacefulChaos]

So I know I'm really late to the game on this but seriously I think it's really enjoyable. I think I tried the first episode back when it first came out and didn't love it so never went further, but after hearing all sorts of talk about it over the years I decided to try again.

I'm so glad I did! I'm still only in the first season but it's like the further I go the better it is lol.

(But seriously, are there ANY episodes that won't cause even the slightest bit of teariness?! I don't even cry that easily and I'm getting misty eyed at least once per episode!!!)

[ThisIsTheDay]

We began watching Parenthood in August and finished in October. 

 

It doesn't make me cry, but I enjoy the show a lot.

 

Netflix didn't have the final season, but it's supposed to be on Netflix Dec. 30!!  I'm pretty excited about that.  I worry that I've lost the flow of the show and that I won't remember what happened. But then I remember, oh yeah, that's what watching regular network tv is like every summer, after one season ends and the new one begins.  Haha.  I never watch anything on regular tv like that anymore, I'm spoiled by binge watching!

[PeacefulChaos]

Same here lol!!!

Though the way we end up doing it is sometimes worse, because we will find a show we like and watch what is available...and then have to wait a looooong time for the new season. ;) I'm September/October of every year, we catch up on shows and then go another year without seeing them again. 😅

[Anne in CA]

Interesting tidbit; I have been a server for Monica Potter, and she is a really nice, super duper person IRL. Really.

[happypamama]

Yeah, no, it always made me cry too. I didn't love every story arc (I won't spoil it), but I did like the show overall. My FOO is two girls, two boys too, and I'm the oldest, so I always liked when the adult siblings were there for each other. And I thought the families were very realistic in their interactions, joys, frustrations. Took me a little while to not think "Coach" and "Arrested Development" when Zeke and Amber were on (I never watched Gilmore Girls), but I liked seeing Craig T. Nelson as the grandfather. I'm glad to hear it's coming to Netflix.

[Garga]

Huh. Peaceful, I watched the first episode and thought, "Well, that was kinda blah," and have wondered why everyone else likes it so much. Maybe I'll try ep 2 and 3 before giving up on it.

[kewb]

It took a few episodes to grab me. But ensemble cast takes a few episodes to truly set the back stories and for the cast to gel.

I didn't love all the story arcs but dd and I are looking forward to the final season finally being available on netflix.

[PeacefulChaos]

It did take a couple - I wanted to try at least 3-4 because a lot of friends said they really enjoyed it.  :)  Because, yeah, at first it was like 'meh'.  

 

 

I like watching the family interact regularly and be so supportive of each other.  I don't have siblings so it's fun watching their adult interactions (DH does, but while they don't live super far away, they don't live close enough or have schedules that permit the type of hanging out that these people do for the sake of the show lol ;) ).  

 

And I really like the parents' house.  

[purplejackmama]

Oh I loved loved loved the show.

 

I miss my friends, the Bravermans, so much!

[Roadrunner]

I don't think I have watched a single episode of that show without crying. It's a nice show.

[Sara in AZ]

Loved, loved, loved that show! All of my sisters and my parents were fans and trying to get me to watch it for a long time before my husband and I finally did. And then we were hooked. It was sad to see it end.

[Runningmom80]

It's a good one!

[MrsMommy]

DH and I loved it, too. The writing for Max was so spot-on...even though it was just a TV show, we felt like they really understood our lives. Because of that, there was a lot of teariness on my part when we watched!

[Zebra]

I loved this show!   I bawled my eyes out practically every episode.   It was totally my addictive must see every week show, for awhile.

 

Dax Shepherd and Kristin Bell posted a really cute picture of themselves fake crying while watching the final episode, it was hilarious.

 

I am waiting for the last season to go on Netflix so I can watch it again.

[speedmom4]

I didn't like the first couple of episodes either. But after a recommendation from my SIL I stuck it out. I'm so glad I did. I'm on season 4. I love all of the Bravermans! I regularly cry as well.

[poppy]

I didn't love that show.  What a soap opera!

 

I keep wanting to punch Dax Shepherd, the adoption storyline was whaaaaat?, no one actually talks over each other that much, Jason Ritter's facial hair is super gross, Max was annoying or at least inadequately counseled (SORRY BUT IT'S TRUE).  I could complain so much more, but I won't spoil it for people who are still watching.

 

OK, Mae Whitman and Ray Romano are OK. 

 

Whew.

[DawnM]

DH and I loved it, too. The writing for Max was so spot-on...even though it was just a TV show, we felt like they really understood our lives. Because of that, there was a lot of teariness on my part when we watched!

 

 

Me too.  Max is so much like my DS in so many ways.

[ThisIsTheDay]

 

OK, Mae Whitman and Ray Romano are OK. 

 

Whew.

 

I kept imagining that Raymond left that horrible wife Debra back in Long Island and then had the misfortune to end up with Sarah (I can't stand her!).

 

And Aidan from Sex in the City.  Sigh.  After Carrie dumped him for Mr. Big, he ends up an addict on Parenthood. But I guess life with Sarah can do that to a guy.

 

:laugh:

 

 

 

 

 

ETA: typo

Edited December 27, 2015 by ThisIsTheDay

[MrsWeasley]

I can't wait for the last season to hit Netflix!

[Frances]

Really enjoyed it except for the Sarah character. Sometimes I would even fast forward through parts that featured her.

[KrissiK]

I loved that show. I watched it on Amazon Prime (all but the last season) until they don't offer it for free anymore. I was planning on watching the whole thing over again! Of course I looked up the Braverman's homestead (wondering where it was in Berkely) and it doesn't exist in Berkely. I was bummed. I love that house!

[ktgrok]

DH and I loved it, too. The writing for Max was so spot-on...even though it was just a TV show, we felt like they really understood our lives. Because of that, there was a lot of teariness on my part when we watched!

 

Yup. My aspie actually watched part of an episode and said, oh, yeah, that's exactly right. They did a good job of protraying him. 

[ktgrok]

We stopped watching in season 3 I think? Whatever season the one couple separates in. Because it was depressing my husband too much, lol. But I may end up picking it up again once the whole thing is on netflix. 

[Southern Ivy]

Huh. Peaceful, I watched the first episode and thought, "Well, that was kinda blah," and have wondered why everyone else likes it so much. Maybe I'll try ep 2 and 3 before giving up on it.

I had friends that loved it and I just couldn't get into it at first. It took me several episodes to really become attached to some of the storylines. After that, I just didn't want it to end. 

[Southern Ivy]

We stopped watching in season 3 I think? Whatever season the one couple separates in. Because it was depressing my husband too much, lol. But I may end up picking it up again once the whole thing is on netflix. 

Oh! What a horrible time to end it! Definitely go back and finish. 

[Zebra]

I kept imagining that Raymond left that horrible wife Debra back in Long Island and then had the misfortune to end up with Sarah (I can't stand her!).

 

And Aidan from Sex in the City.  Sigh.  After Carrie dumped him for Mr. Big, he ends up an addict on Parenthood. But I guess life with Sarah can do that to a guy.

 

:laugh:

 

 

 

 

 

ETA: typo

 

I know, WHY would you leave Debra for Sarah Braverman??????

 

I always think of Sarah's ex-DH as the Big Fat Greek Wedding husband.   Again, you leave Tula for Sarah Braverman?   What is this spell Sarah Braverman has over men?  

 

I was super annoyed with myself for getting into this show.   It's annoying.   They talk all over each other and I am either crying or cringing.   But for me, it's fascinating to watch a show where the family likes each other and the adult children have functional relationships.   It's like watching The Kardashians show, completely foreign to me and fascinating  :lol: !!!​   (Although, I find the Kardashian show less interesting, but you get the idea...)

[kewb]

Braverman! Braverman!

The show is a total soap opera. Coming from a small family and one that is scattered states apart I am always amazed to watch the sibling relationships and I wonder if that is what it is really like to be part of a large family.

[KrissiK]

Braverman! Braverman!

The show is a total soap opera. Coming from a small family and one that is scattered states apart I am always amazed to watch the sibling relationships and I wonder if that is what it is really like to be part of a large family.

I loved that about the show. I have only one brother and we don't really like each other, so I just loved watching the way the siblings interacted. They were always asking for advice, in each other's business, dropping by.... so unlike the way my family is.

[Mimm]

Braverman! Braverman!

The show is a total soap opera. Coming from a small family and one that is scattered states apart I am always amazed to watch the sibling relationships and I wonder if that is what it is really like to be part of a large family.

 

I'm from a big family and that's kinda what we're like, yeah. :) Less drama, thank goodness. Mostly my house is the one everyone's dropping in on unannounced.

[SproutMamaK]

I love this show, all the more because some of the main characters and storylines annoyed the crap out of me. That's what made it feel so real; these people make stupid decisions and sometimes good things happen despite their choices and sometimes the $(&! hits the fan. It all felt very human, I guess. It did take a few episodes to get in to it, but I'm so glad I stuck with it.

[PeacefulChaos]

Okay so I'm only on like episode 10 (correction: it was episode 12) or something of the first season - the situation with the girls.  And that's the first time I actually cried, at the end, with the brother/sister exchange.  Like, you know how sometimes tears don't just slide out of your eyes but actually fall?  Lol.  Yeah, that was me.   :lol:

Edited December 28, 2015 by PeacefulChaos

[PeacefulChaos]

Okay, so I'm going to just vent here because then I'll feel better because I need to vent and I'm trying to yell my venting at twitter but somehow this feels so much more satisfying. 

 

Ahem.

 

So now I'm in Season 2.  This whole Jasmine/Crosby 'complication' is SO ANNOYING.  Let it be known that I'm 100% on Crosby's side here because I think she's controlling and two-faced.  

I already didn't like her but she was tolerable.  But then, now, they're having this 'problem' and she goes to the other sister in law and acts like she doesn't know what's going on?  Seriously?  Seriously??

And she goes to him, and apologizes only for not going to the kid's birthday party?  Not her general jerk-ness.  Or anything.  :rolleyes:  And then proceeds to get totally, over the top angry, throwing things at him and acting like a brat about the other girl.  

And then the stupid SIL (who is probably, between her and her daughter, tied for the most hated person on the show by me) is getting all mad about it.

 

 

Ugh.  Just.  UGH.  :cursing:  

 

 

:rant:  

[PeacefulChaos]

OMG HOW IS THIS A THING?!!??!!??!!

 

Crosby screws up and that makes EVERYTHING HIS FAULT?!  And now he's the one who has to go back like he's the only one who's done anything wrong?!

 

 

This is so pissing me off.  There are not enough words.  I can't even believe it.  

[happypamama]

Jasmine's not my favorite. I like Julia okay, mostly, but I don't relate to her life much. Sarah -- I feel pretty neutral about her, like her sometimes, and sometimes she's annoying. I relate most to Kristina and like her most of the time. I feel like she fits in with her family-in-law very well, a lot like how I fit in with my ILs, and like she and I are similar in our approaches to marriage and motherhood.

[happypamama]

Also, this always bugged me a bit. Kids number one, two, and four got these classic/Biblical names -- Adam, Sarah, Julia -- and somehow the third one got Crosby, which is quite unusual. Did that strike anyone else as odd? Not that everyone has to choose common names, but generally, you either go all eclectic or all of a similar vein. I don't think they ever addressed that, did they, like to mention that he was named for a favorite relative or that his first name was actually something like John or something?

[PeacefulChaos]

Yeah, the name thing occurred to me too.  Who knows - I feel like I see that a lot IRL, where there's a kid that has a name that doesn't, to me, seem to come from the same place as the others.  :)  

 

Christina bugs me.  Something about the way she acts and her attitude just rubs me the wrong way - but, at the same time, Adam isn't my favorite, either.  Sometimes I just think he's a jerk.  Other times he doesn't bother me.  I pretty much never like Christina and I think their daughter is :svengo: .... the way she acts floors me.  I've known a lot of 16 year old girls but (thank goodness) never one who acted like her.  :lol:  The kid I find annoying, but I'm sure it's the over exaggeration of his Asperger's that does that for me.  

 

Julia is a nutter but she's strangely endearing.  it's like her intense control-freak craziness is her charm.  :lol:  Her husband has bugged me off and on with the things he's said, particularly back when they were trying to decide whether to try to conceive again.  He's a bit whiny lol.  And their daughter drives me insane.  I think they wrote her character to be quite the spoiled brat.  :D

 

Sarah doesn't bother me.  I feel like she has the worst taste in men.  And it's not just her taste - it's like, she attracts these total losers.  The teacher guy isn't bad but it was just a bad idea at the time.  I wouldn't mind seeing them get together in the future.  The age difference is nbd but the teacher thing was a bit weird.  And then the boss... I'm just like, what is it with all these jerk guys?  Her kids are the only ones I don't mind.  

 

Crosby is my favorite, probably.  I'm really annoyed by this story arc because they're literally making everything his fault.  I'm not trying to say that there was excuse for him to go do what he did, but it has become this thing where Jasmine is crying and acting like she's never done anything wrong in her life, when she so easily ripped off the engagement ring and wouldn't speak to him without blowing up in his face about him having the audacity to have an opinion.  Then suddenly she comes back and wants to talk and throws stuff at him because he slept with someone else.  Uh... okay.  I think she was just looking for a reason to get mad at him and kick him out.  :lol:  But then the way the whole thing is written it's like I'm supposed to feel sorry for her when she's a manipulative jerk?  Just because she's standing there crying?  Give me a break.  

I get that she's all independent woman and crap but it's like they're never going to address the fact that she's a controlling witch, and instead turn him into the bad guy.  Because the way she's acting, it's not independent woman, it's literally just controlling.  She's comfortable doing whatever she wants however she wants and she has no idea what partnership is, even when it comes to Jabbar.  She needs to get over herself and start letting Crosby have an opinion.

Ahem.  Yeah, I'm really annoyed by this lol.

 

Oh, and then to top it all off, only in TV-land (I HOPE) do we see someone make a crappy mistake, KNOW HOW TERRIBLE IT WAS, but everyone just hates on them and hates on them and drags their face through the mud anyway.  Even people who have NOTHING to do with it (like the siblings).  I'm floored by the terrible treatment he's getting from his own family on this!  At least his parents have their heads on straight.

 

Sigh.  It's a very frustrating story arc for me.  It reminds me of, on Friends, when Ross slept with someone else after Rachel said she 'needed a break'.  Then she gets mad because she thinks he cheated on her, but in reality, she had pretty much broken up with him at the time.  It was the most frustrating storyline in a show full of frustrating, idiotic storylines lol.  Because THEY REALLY WERE ON A BREAK!!!  :lol: :lol:

[ktgrok]

OMG HOW IS THIS A THING?!!??!!??!!

 

Crosby screws up and that makes EVERYTHING HIS FAULT?!  And now he's the one who has to go back like he's the only one who's done anything wrong?!

 

 

This is so pissing me off.  There are not enough words.  I can't even believe it.  

 

Agreed. Jasmine was SO freaking controlling (I say was because I haven't watched in a long time.) I'd consider it abusive. 

[ktgrok]

And my most frustrating moment comes later.....talk to me when Julia and her husband have problems. 

[pehp]

I watched about half of the first season but it never resonated with me (except a little bit about Max b/c I'm so familiar w/ high functioning autism).

 

I think it was the lack of ability to connect with any of the characters very much.  I just sort of found myself not caring.  I actually felt badly about it because Jen Hatmaker talked so much about how much she loved the show, and I thought it would be amazing....but I just I was like, "eh".  

 

Maybe it gets better down the road?!?

[ThisIsTheDay]

Also, this always bugged me a bit. Kids number one, two, and four got these classic/Biblical names -- Adam, Sarah, Julia -- and somehow the third one got Crosby, which is quite unusual. Did that strike anyone else as odd?

 

Never heard it addressed, but I always assumed it came out of Crosby, Stills, Nash (& Young?).  lol

 

We about died when Bonnie Bedelia came back to Season 2 or 3? with a facelift.  So unnatural looking!  I don't know if her face settled down, or if we got used to it, but I didn't notice it in later seasons.

 

I probably cried the most in general over Julia and Joel's storylines.  Marriage can be hard, and while I can't relate to their specific situations, I can relate to the emotion and ups and downs they went through.  Sid, their kid--worst brat ever. She was horrid, and they did nothing to address her behavior. 

 

I loved watching Amber grow up as the show went on, and I appreciated the close relationship she had with Drew.

 

Why did Max get worse as he got older?  Is that typical?  Adam and Kristina seemed to pander to him, continuing to let him throw tantrums, even in the last season.  In their eyes, Max could do no wrong, and that's a terrible way for any child to grow up, Asbergers or otherwise.

 

Sarah got a lot better as the show went on.  I loved her storyline with Hank.

 

We watched the final episode of the last season last night.  A bit anticlimatic, but it was a good ending.  We immediately watched the first episode right after that, to see how things had changed, lol.  Now we're in that awful limbo of trying to figure out what to watch next!

[Runningmom80]

And my most frustrating moment comes later.....talk to me when Julia and her husband have problems. 

 

Don't even get me started. :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:

[ktgrok]

Don't even get me started. :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:

 

I may be a horrid person, but all I could think was how totally unrealistic it was for a woman to say no, not really into my super hot, hardworking, supportive husband who also is the worlds most dedicated Dad...but hey, that unemployed overweight guy...that's what I like!

 

Please. Other way around yes, that would be realistic. 

[MrsWeasley]

 

Why did Max get worse as he got older?  Is that typical?  Adam and Kristina seemed to pander to him, continuing to let him throw tantrums, even in the last season.  In their eyes, Max could do no wrong, and that's a terrible way for any child to grow up, Asbergers or otherwise.

 

 

 

 

I understand that Max has Asperger's. I'd love to hear from someone on the spectrum or with kids on the spectrum, because I had a really hard time with how they handled Max's harassment of Dylan. I can't imagine a school where another kid could bully and physically attack another student and then just get a lecture by the principal. I know Kristina was initially uncomfortable with the encouragement Adam gave Max to pursue Dylan, but Kristina encouraged him, too, when she told him that harassing Dylan in the cafeteria was brave. I feel like Dylan's parents' initial reaction and judgment of the situation was spot-on, and the Bravermans, who failed to protect Dylan time and again, just turn around and attack Dylan's parents. And then her parents end up apologizing to the Bravermans, and Max's parents reassure him that he wasn't harassing her. He was, and they failed awfully as educators when they failed to deal with it.

[Runningmom80]

I may be a horrid person, but all I could think was how totally unrealistic it was for a woman to say no, not really into my super hot, hardworking, supportive husband who also is the worlds most dedicated Dad...but hey, that unemployed overweight guy...that's what I like!

 

Please. Other way around yes, that would be realistic. 

 

The whole thing made me mad, Joel was not cool either when he was working that job, but Julia was such a baby about leaving her firm.  Get a grip people! :lol:

 

And yes, joel over the chubby guy from The Office ANY day!

[PeacefulChaos]

I understand that Max has Asperger's. I'd love to hear from someone on the spectrum or with kids on the spectrum, because I had a really hard time with how they handled Max's harassment of Dylan. I can't imagine a school where another kid could bully and physically attack another student and then just get a lecture by the principal. I know Kristina was initially uncomfortable with the encouragement Adam gave Max to pursue Dylan, but Kristina encouraged him, too, when she told him that harassing Dylan in the cafeteria was brave. I feel like Dylan's parents' initial reaction and judgment of the situation was spot-on, and the Bravermans, who failed to protect Dylan time and again, just turn around and attack Dylan's parents. And then her parents end up apologizing to the Bravermans, and Max's parents reassure him that he wasn't harassing her. He was, and they failed awfully as educators when they failed to deal with it.

 

I'm wondering, too, and I'm really early on still - I feel like Max gets away with a lot, even now in the 2nd season.  I feel like Adam and Christina's parenting is really weird - on one hand they do some really over the top things where I feel like they're way too involved in the life of their 16 year old, but then at the same time Max gets away with murder.  

It seems like Christina is an emotional basketcase all the time, and Adam is either angry or annoyed with someone or something all the time, and when he isn't, that's the only time I don't think he's a total jerk.  I remember early in the thread someone had said one of the other couples had trouble and I'll be honest, I was hoping it was them, because I think they are a  total mess.  :lol:

[Runningmom80]

I understand that Max has Asperger's. I'd love to hear from someone on the spectrum or with kids on the spectrum, because I had a really hard time with how they handled Max's harassment of Dylan. I can't imagine a school where another kid could bully and physically attack another student and then just get a lecture by the principal. I know Kristina was initially uncomfortable with the encouragement Adam gave Max to pursue Dylan, but Kristina encouraged him, too, when she told him that harassing Dylan in the cafeteria was brave. I feel like Dylan's parents' initial reaction and judgment of the situation was spot-on, and the Bravermans, who failed to protect Dylan time and again, just turn around and attack Dylan's parents. And then her parents end up apologizing to the Bravermans, and Max's parents reassure him that he wasn't harassing her. He was, and they failed awfully as educators when they failed to deal with it.

I agree, I hated that story line because of how that was handled.

[kewb]

I may be a horrid person, but all I could think was how totally unrealistic it was for a woman to say no, not really into my super hot, hardworking, supportive husband who also is the worlds most dedicated Dad...but hey, that unemployed overweight guy...that's what I like!

 

Please. Other way around yes, that would be realistic. 

 

I actually found it very realistic.  Julia was drowning and her actions were screaming please notice and help me.  Joel, amzingly hot, super supportive, dad of the year was so wrapped up in his own business he didn't notice that his wife needed help. He was too busy whining about how supportive he was when she was working and how she is not supporting him.  She felt like unemployed guy was listening to her and understanding.

[ThisIsTheDay]

I understand that Max has Asperger's. I'd love to hear from someone on the spectrum or with kids on the spectrum, because I had a really hard time with how they handled Max's harassment of Dylan. I can't imagine a school where another kid could bully and physically attack another student and then just get a lecture by the principal. I know Kristina was initially uncomfortable with the encouragement Adam gave Max to pursue Dylan, but Kristina encouraged him, too, when she told him that harassing Dylan in the cafeteria was brave. I feel like Dylan's parents' initial reaction and judgment of the situation was spot-on, and the Bravermans, who failed to protect Dylan time and again, just turn around and attack Dylan's parents. And then her parents end up apologizing to the Bravermans, and Max's parents reassure him that he wasn't harassing her. He was, and they failed awfully as educators when they failed to deal with it.

 

And then when you'd THINK, lesson learned, don't push Max on people, they encourage him to go for that girl at the wedding (final episode of series). Max needed way too much work, but maybe that was the show's way of showing how Kristina and Adam just wanted him to be "normal." It seemed to me like another set up for failure and rejection.

 

Good point that someone else made, basically that Max got away with murder, and Haddie was treated like an 8 year old.

 

Yes, yes, I do appreciate the opportunity to critique somewhat realistic parenting skills--or lack of--on tv.  I truly think it helps me see other perspectives and see where I can improve--or encourage me--in my own parenting.

 

 

 

 

I may be a horrid person, but all I could think was how totally unrealistic it was for a woman to say no, not really into my super hot, hardworking, supportive husband who also is the worlds most dedicated Dad...but hey, that unemployed overweight guy...that's what I like!

 

Please. Other way around yes, that would be realistic. 

 

I don't agree.  Joel had shut down, Julia wanted reassurance, Joel was demanding and had basically dropped out of the marriage partnership.  The other dad was an available, sympathetic listener, someone she intially thought of as a safe friend.  Mistakes like that (on Julia's part) are easy to make--no one considers this guy a threat to someone's marriage.

[Runningmom80]

I agree that Joel was being a jerk, but those actors had zero chemistry. (Julia and whatever the other guy's name was.)  It was just not believable. And I always hate when tv shows go the "just a kiss" route.  It's a crappy story line.  Either have them really get into an affair or show Julia walking away before it gets to the kiss part.  It's lazy story telling to have them just kiss so it creates a conflict, but not one that is too large to overcome, i.e. the happy ending is still possible.

[ktgrok]

And then when you'd THINK, lesson learned, don't push Max on people, they encourage him to go for that girl at the wedding (final episode of series). Max needed way too much work, but maybe that was the show's way of showing how Kristina and Adam just wanted him to be "normal." It seemed to me like another set up for failure and rejection.

 

Good point that someone else made, basically that Max got away with murder, and Haddie was treated like an 8 year old.

 

Yes, yes, I do appreciate the opportunity to critique somewhat realistic parenting skills--or lack of--on tv.  I truly think it helps me see other perspectives and see where I can improve--or encourage me--in my own parenting.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't agree.  Joel had shut down, Julia wanted reassurance, Joel was demanding and had basically dropped out of the marriage partnership.  The other dad was an available, sympathetic listener, someone she intially thought of as a safe friend.  Mistakes like that (on Julia's part) are easy to make--no one considers this guy a threat to someone's marriage.

I suppose. I just don't see why Julia was so darned upset. The truth is, Joel DID put up with her doing the same things he was doing, being super involved in work and not around. He ran the house on his own and supported her fully. Now was his turn to try to fly, career wise, and she wasn't supportive at all. It was all about her still. She just seemed so selfish. And if she didn't want to be a stay at home mom, fine, get a job and hire a babysitter. Or a housekeeper. Whatever. Just don't blame your husband when you were fine when the shoe was on the other foot.