What Consequence for This Behavior?

[Pawz4me]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

 

I haven't posted on this thread until now, but . . . .no.  We don't give practical gifts.  Just not our family culture to give clothes, pajamas, toothbrushes, sheets or any other normally used every day item unless they're specifically requested.   In the rare instances those have been requested, it has generally been a higher dollar item that's definitely a want more than a need -- a designer item, a sports jersey, etc.

[bettyandbob]

Well, there looks like a lot of people who think this is normal. Hmmm, I'm constantly reminded how strange my family is.

 

I remember needing a new pair of gloves when I was a kid and I told everyone that was what I wanted and I got three pairs and was happy. I'm very happy with the pot that my husband got for the family this year and strangely, I guess, my kids were too. I'm sick of having only one little pot but it certainly didn't make the list of necessities for survival so I didn't go out and buy it.

 

I did have a child who once wasn't impressed with a clothing item but I just explained that Grandma really tried hard to get nice gifts for him and that even though he didn't like it that he should be grateful she tried. I haven't seen that again for some time. If someone got them a rude or inappropriate gift as does happen at times to some people that would be different.

The difference is you asked for gloves. If I asked for gloves and got a book or doll I would have been disappointed because I knew my hands would still hurt playing outside.

 

If someone gave me gloves and I had told everyone I didn't want gloves no matter how great they were, I would gave been disappointed.

 

We give practical gifts along with fun stuff. The practical gifts usually have something fun about them got the recipient--color, design, something. We don't do completely utilitarian--no packs of tighty whiteys. Gifts for young adults (launched or about to launch) are more practical because they often need a lot of practical stuff they can't afford and know they are at a point in their lives that they should not expect Mommy to just buy them every item they need. If at Christmas or birthday child said he wanted tighty whiteys I woukd get a large pack of fruit of the loom and just hand it to him separately from presents that might include other needs like jeans.

 

At 11, we are still giving more fun presents like books and Legos. A new winter coat or boots might go in that mix. The child may have even picked the color and style of coat, so he probably knows about it ahead and everyone understands he's going to be way happier opening the Legos.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Diana P.

[Word Nerd]

My kids got silly Santa socks in their stockings. They're red knee socks with a fuzzy white band around the top like the one on a Santa hat or stocking. I wouldn't give plain, super practical socks as a gift.

[marbel]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

 

We give practical gifts if we know the item is wanted.  My son and I are getting phones for Christmas.  They are needed, as much as anyone *needs* a smartphone instead of a cheap flip-phone;  they are also expensive and highly desired.  Most years I ask for dishtowels, an extremely practical item.  I get them, and am happy, because I asked for them.  Other practical gifts have been my Dutch oven, and a particular nice saute pan - things I wanted and asked for.  I've mentioned this here before:  one Christmas when I was a young woman, recently divorced and broke, my sister (an Avon rep at the time) gave me a huge box of the products I used. Soap, deodorant, hand cream, all the practical items I used.  It was a great gift!  She knew I would appreciate it and knew that it would free up money for me for other purposes.   I suspect when my kids are up and out, they will want more practical items as gifts, and we will get them.  We don't *object* to giving practical items if they are wanted.

 

If I knew someone did not view something as a gift, I would not get that person the item as a gift.  Whatever it was.  While Christmas shopping, I picked up some new sweatpants for my kid.  He needed them, and it was right before Christmas.  But he would not view them as a gift, so I just handed them over when I got home.  If I would buy sweats, or shirts, or socks anytime during the year and give them to my kid, then I would not choose those things as gifts, unless I knew the kid saw them as gifts.  If money was tight to the point that I had to choose between new sweats and one more gift for my kid, I would skip the gift.  We'd just have fewer gifts.  Maybe in some families the fun is in unwrapping lots of gifts.  It's not in ours. We don't mind getting just a few gifts. 

 

When someone specifically says (when asked) that they would like to receive something as a gift, and not receive something as a gift, I would listen to them.  I would expect that most people would feel disrespected if their husbands asked what they wanted, they named some items they wanted and something they did not want, and the husband bought the unwanted item anyway.  It's no different with kids.

 

ETA: Now I'm curious:  those of you who buy practical gifts, do you consider those things to be gifts whenever you buy them?  If your kid needs new underwear in June, do you consider that a gift, or a needed item?  Do you wait and give those items on their birthdays or other gift occasions? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2015 by marbel

[regentrude]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

 

I give practical gifts to kids who expressed a desire to receive practical gifts or who I know will enjoy them. That would mostly be older kids, and practical items they would otherwise either have to purchase themselves, or that would be of lower quality normally, and the gift is in the upgrade. With young kids, it may have been special articles of clothing I knew they would like: a pretty dress or fun shirt - but definitely not underwear or socks. I do not give as gifts items I have to provide for a child on a regular basis as part of my duty as a parent. Calling those a "gift" takes away from the fun. I give items as gift when I can have a reasonable expectation that my kids will enjoy receiving them - because that, to me, is the entire point of "presents".

 

As an adult, I see different categories of "practical". This year, my DH gave me a Thermarest mat for Christmas. Definitely practical, and I love it, because I always have trouble sleeping on my old one. It was a special and unexpected item that I would not normally have bought. OTOH, vacuum cleaners or other household supplies are practical items which I would have found offensive as a Christmas gift. Does that make sense?

I, in turn, gave DH a hiking shirt to replace the one he spoiled with paint. Practical and welcome as a present. Socks or underwear, OTOH, would not have constituted a "gift", since I buy those anyway as part of household upkeep.

 

ETA: Have to amend my stance on socks to include an exception: cute funny Christmas socks as part of a present. Those I have given to girls and they have been received well. (Still, DH would not appreciate those either)

 

Edited December 25, 2015 by regentrude

[maize]

I prefer to keep the number of gifts small, to allow the children to really appreciate and enjoy each gift. I would not give practical items like clothes unless I knew that was something that the recipient would particularly enjoy (my husband, for example, is a very practical, minimalist sort of guy--clothes make a great gift for him). 

 

This year, my kids each received a book from Grandma (opened on Christmas Eve); on Christmas morning they get what is in their stocking--one nice model dinosaur plus a few of the little model dinosaurs and some candy and an orange. That is all their personal gifts. Then we have family gifts under the tree, this year including a board game, a couple of sleds, some animal toys geared towards the littles...hm, that's about it. Oh, some of that cool sand stuff that sticks together but I can't think of the name right now. Often we get just one large family gift in addition to the stockings--last year it was a gymnastics mini bar. This year the girls pooled their money to buy a present for the boys and the boys pooled their money to buy a present for the girls so those are also under the tree.

 

Several of my kids have received new clothes this month, pants and boots and shirts--but I just bring those home from the store and give them to them.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with giving clothes or other practical items as a gift, particularly as I know how tight resources can be and that new socks and undies can actually be a pretty big deal. What I find to be lacking in personal respect is a parent who gives a child an item that child specifically requested not to receive, then wants to punish the child for not showing gratitude for the item. Respect to me is basically following the golden rule: treating all people, including those who are smaller and weaker than us, as we would want to be treated ourselves. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'd just say hey that's not nice, you should say thank you when someone gives you a gift.  Something like that . Then drop it.

 

It's normal.  Not nice, but normal. 

 

Kids are honest and often lack a filter. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I tend not to give practical gifts unless I know they will be wanted.  I might buy a shirt, but it would be something extra special (like with a favorite video game theme or something).

 

It's like if someone bought me a pack of socks.  Of course I'm an adult so I'd say thank you, but really?  Socks?  LOL

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, there looks like a lot of people who think this is normal. Hmmm, I'm constantly reminded how strange my family is.

 

I remember needing a new pair of gloves when I was a kid and I told everyone that was what I wanted and I got three pairs and was happy. I'm very happy with the pot that my husband got for the family this year and strangely, I guess, my kids were too. I'm sick of having only one little pot but it certainly didn't make the list of necessities for survival so I didn't go out and buy it.

 

I did have a child who once wasn't impressed with a clothing item but I just explained that Grandma really tried hard to get nice gifts for him and that even though he didn't like it that he should be grateful she tried. I haven't seen that again for some time. If someone got them a rude or inappropriate gift as does happen at times to some people that would be different.

 

Oh see pots or any cooking anything I consider a good gift because I love to cook.  Cooking is in part a hobby. 

 

 

[marbel]

Oh see pots or any cooking anything I consider a good gift because I love to cook.  Cooking is in part a hobby. 

 

My son and I had a conversation about cooking stuff not too long ago.  He wanted ideas for a Christmas gift for me, and found my Amazon wish list deficient.  "It's all cooking stuff."  Yes, I told him, but it's fun cooking stuff for me.  It's not basic everyday stuff we can't manage without.  No one needs a popover pan!  But it'd be fun to have one.   I asked why he doesn't get me the flan pan - that's his favorite dessert.  He said that would be unfair since he would benefit from it.

 

It can be hard to see the difference between a practical gift that is fun and welcome and one that is not.  I would be annoyed by the gift of a vacuum cleaner.  However, perhaps a young person in their first home would find that to be a great gift.

 

It's all about knowing the people we're buying gifts for.  There is no "strange" or "normal."  People have different preferences and practices.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

My son and I had a conversation about cooking stuff not too long ago.  He wanted ideas for a Christmas gift for me, and found my Amazon wish list deficient.  "It's all cooking stuff."  Yes, I told him, but it's fun cooking stuff for me.  It's not basic everyday stuff we can't manage without.  No one needs a popover pan!  But it'd be fun to have one.   I asked why he doesn't get me the flan pan - that's his favorite dessert.  He said that would be unfair since he would benefit from it.

 

It can be hard to see the difference between a practical gift that is fun and welcome and one that is not.  I would be annoyed by the gift of a vacuum cleaner.  However, perhaps a young person in their first home would find that to be a great gift.

 

It's all about knowing the people we're buying gifts for.  There is no "strange" or "normal."  People have different preferences and practices.

 

 

Yep.  I joked one year to my kids that Santa would bring them packages of underwear.  So for the heck of it I did buy them packs of underwear and had them open that first.  I was surprised they weren't upset.  LOL 

 

My husband said every year he'd get socks and underwear and thought that was a lame gift. 

[MedicMom]

My kids did get underwear and socks in their stocking this year. But it's special superhero underwear and paw patrol socks and they were beside themselves with joy.

 

Also they got Magformers so their lives are now complete.

[Word Nerd]

Speaking of strange, not normal gifts, I just remembered I once gave then-preschooler age DD a box of character Band-Aids in her stocking. She loved them and could use them up however she liked.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Word Nerd

[zoobie]

Speaking of strange, not normal gifts, I just remembered I once gave then-preschooler age DD a box of character Band-Aids in her stocking. She loved them and could use them up however she liked.

We do this every year. A roll of Scotch tape too. :)

[Alice]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

 

I don't think you were disrespectful, I also rolled my eyes at that. It would have been different if you had only got him clothes. I do think that his behavior was normal and maybe you could have seen it coming since he had requested no clothes. But I can totally see myself in the exact same situation. 

 

We do practical gifts but balance them with non-practical gifts. And I usually make the practical gifts more fun. So everyone got socks because they always need them but they are mostly fun socks. Both boys got fun Tshirts. My 12 year old got a belt he needed for Scouts. He wasn't upset but it wasn't the gift he was necessarily thrilled by. : ) 

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 25, 2015 by w11

[Upennmama]

Why? Why are children exempt from respect? Why are adults exempt from accountability? Would this count if someone tried to sell a child drugs, or convince her to let them touch her underpants? If there's a line that can be drawn, why should that line be exempt from judgment?

that's a silly straw man. Respecting your parents and being kind even when angry/disappointed/hungry is an appropriate expectation, and one which will serve any adult well. Of course respect should go both ways, but I believe, based on my faith, that we should be kind and gentle,

[Pronghorn]

I would ignore the problem this year, and do some coaching and/or role-playing next December to remind the kid of appropriate big-kid responses to misguided gifts. Perhaps even warn him that you may purposely give him a stupid gift as a test to see how polite he can manage to be in his reaction. Maybe wrap up something really bizarre so that you can laugh and joke about it in the weeks after Christmas. That way he will really remember the lesson. And if there are siblings you could perhaps extend the training and silly gifts for anyone old enough to understand.

[SparklyUnicorn]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

 

I don't think you were disrespectful.  We don't give practical gifts unless requested. 

 

I see stuff like clothing, unless requested or special, to be a gift for the parent.  When my kids were really little and didn't care at all, we often received clothing for them as gifts.  So, again, a gift to us.  Although in our case not so much because the clothing was always way too big and there was no practical way to return it.

[frogger]

Well, I don't like cooking but I like to make it as easy as possible. :)

 

I would be happy with a vacuum too but yes, it does have to do with what you normally get versus something special, now that makes a difference. I can see that. Honestly, my children though happy with socks (since they buy their own) would probably have to force a thank you for lentils or beans. That or they would decide to use them for art. Probably the latter. That's why joking threats of coal always turns into a list of all the things they could do with coal.

 

I once bought my son(when he was about 6) a Costco sized T.P. pack because well, most parents can guess and I had joked about it earlier with him but I did replace the center roles with a toy truck. The funny thing was he was ready to stack the rolls and toss the rolls and didn't expect there to be a truck in there. He thought I really just bought him t.p.

 

I do think it was easier for me to have the discussion about thankfulness with my child as I previously posted because it was about a gift for someone else. I suppose if I am modeling being a good gift giver then I cannot expect anything including thankfulness from the recipient.

[albeto.]

that's a silly straw man. Respecting your parents and being kind even when angry/disappointed/hungry is an appropriate expectation, and one which will serve any adult well. Of course respect should go both ways, but I believe, based on my faith, that we should be kind and gentle,

 

It's neither silly nor a straw man. You've drawn a line, so presumably you appreciate the value in judgement in some measure. I'm asking why that judgement must be reserved when it comes to holding the adult accountable. That's beyond accountability for reasons that are not based on logic or reason, but based on power and control.

 

Kindness and gentility aren't a matter of faith, as clearly these virtues are valued by those who don't share your faith, and those who do are statistically no different. Assuming you're a xian, you likely deviate measurably from the bible in these matters as well (assuming you don't advocate for slavery, genocide, or human trafficking). 

 

But kindness and gentility are reserved under certain circumstances when it comes to the feelings of a child, circumstances we don't refer to when dealing with other adults. I find that curious. The OP mentioned she rolled her eyes when people suggested she was disrespectful. There seems to be a blind spot when it comes to kindness and gentility when it comes to kids who fail to be convenient. I find that rather hypocritical when the argument is in teaching the value of respect.

[poppy]

I do give practical gifts, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I do expect my kids to at least be polite when they open it. But I can't imagine punishing a child for not being grateful he specially asked to NOT get.  I think wrapping something you knew he didn't want was setting him up for disappointment.  Which is hardly the worst thing in the world, but, not something I'd dole out a "consequence" for.

Edited December 25, 2015 by poppy

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, I don't like cooking but I like to make it as easy as possible. :)

 

I would be happy with a vacuum too but yes, it does have to do with what you normally get versus something special, now that makes a difference. I can see that. Honestly, my children though happy with socks (since they buy their own) would probably have to force a thank you for lentils or beans. That or they would decide to use them for art. Probably the latter. That's why joking threats of coal always turns into a list of all the things they could do with coal.

 

I once bought my son(when he was about 6) a Costco sized T.P. pack because well, most parents can guess and I had joked about it earlier with him but I did replace the center roles with a toy truck. The funny thing was he was ready to stack the rolls and toss the rolls and didn't expect there to be a truck in there. He thought I really just bought him t.p.

 

I do think it was easier for me to have the discussion about thankfulness with my child as I previously posted because it was about a gift for someone else. I suppose if I am modeling being a good gift giver then I cannot expect anything including thankfulness from the recipient.

 

To me a vacuum cleaner or set of pots even as a gift of practicality doesn't quite capture how some kids may view packages of socks and underwear (or regular ole shirts).  Maybe a better example would be me getting a toilet brush or box of trash bags as a gift. 

[frogger]

If you have not had trash bags in awhile, you'd probably be thankful for those too. 😉

[SparklyUnicorn]

If you have not had trash bags in awhile, you'd probably be thankful for those too. 😉

 

uhh no

 

I'm trying to imagine this, but I really can't.

[zoobie]

I'm not sure if its disrespectful per se, but let's switch players. Your mom always tries to buy you clothes that are not your style at all. You wear jeans and Anthropologie flowy tops. She wants you to wear structured, conservative Talbots type outfits. She asks you for a Christmas list. You send her one with books, kitchen stuff, and links to Anthropologie tops you've been eyeing. On Christmas, you open up a beautifully wrapped gift and inside is a pantsuit from Talbots in your least favorite color. She's already cut the tags off and hemmed it for you. What's your reaction? Internal rant about how your mother never heard you, wants you to be someone else, what a waste of money... Externally, probably a forced smile and obligatory thanks.

 

The 11 year old son, in the safety of his immediate family, saying merely ugh when he's generally a polite, sweet kid is the equivalent to a 45 year old forced smile and obligatory thanks. Maybe it's a little better on some level because it's honest. The 45 year old fake response is fake because she knows there's no point talking because her mom never hears her and it would start a big thing.

 

Anyway, the kid didn't want clothes. Apparently they're comfortable and he doesn't *need* clothes. Giving him exactly what he asked not to receive and wrapping it up nicely and building anticipation that it might actually be something cool then punishing him for not being falsely polite is a setup. No one's going to win. If the gift is about the recipient, giving them exactly what they don't want isn't thoughtful. It's making the gift about you, the giver. But you're going to end up disappointed too. If your family always does the want-need-wear-read thing and there's an expectation that one box will contain clothing, that's a different scenario too!

 

(OP, I know you didn't punish him! I'm thinking of the people who would stop family Christmas and put the boy in the stockade out front for being disappointed.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

When I was a teen I did want clothing for xmas.  I can so relate to this though.  My mother had very specific tastes and they were much different than mine.  I like more earthy colors.  She liked pastels.  One year I got all pastel clothing.  Think pink pants, peach colored tops, mint green vests.  I mean gag me with a dang fork.  I said thank you and wore the clothing, but I really did not like any of it. 

 

 

I'm not sure if its disrespectful per se, but let's switch players. Your mom always tries to buy you clothes that are not your style at all. You wear jeans and Anthropologie flowy tops. She wants you to wear structured, conservative Talbots type outfits. She asks you for a Christmas list. You send her one with books, kitchen stuff, and links to Anthropologie tops you've been eyeing. On Christmas, you open up a beautifully wrapped gift and inside is a pantsuit from Talbots in your least favorite color. She's already cut the tags off and hemmed it for you. What's your reaction? Internal rant about how your mother never heard you, wants you to be someone else, what a waste of money... Externally, probably a forced smile and obligatory thanks.

The 11 year old son, in the safety of his immediate family, saying merely ugh when he's generally a polite, sweet kid is the equivalent to a 45 year old forced smile and obligatory thanks. Maybe it's a little better on some level because it's honest. The 45 year old fake response is fake because she knows there's no point talking because her mom never hears her and it would start a big thing.

Anyway, the kid didn't want clothes. Apparently they're comfortable and he doesn't *need* clothes. Giving him exactly what he asked not to receive and wrapping it up nicely and building anticipation that it might actually be something cool then punishing him for not being falsely polite is a setup. No one's going to win. If the gift is about the recipient, giving them exactly what they don't want isn't thoughtful. It's making the gift about you, the giver. But you're going to end up disappointed too. If your family always does the want-need-wear-read thing and there's an expectation that one box will contain clothing, that's a different scenario too!

(OP, I know you didn't punish him! I'm thinking of the people who would stop family Christmas and put the boy in the stockade out front for being disappointed.)

 

[frogger]

uhh no

 

I'm trying to imagine this, but I really can't.

I take it you have never cleaned out a trash can. You know trash bags weren't always in existence and I like them because they sure make life easier. I'm glad I'm wealthy enough to use them on a daily basis.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have cleaned out trash cans.  Not saying trash bags don't make life easier, but I really don't think they'd make a good gift.

 

 

[Minerva]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

 

If you had just told the story without adding the part where he told you he didn't want clothing, I would have thought it a tiny bit rude on his part but only worth a small mention at a later time; however, he explicitly said he did not want clothing and you ignored it. I think that is disrespectful. I thought you mentioned this in your original post because on some level you thought so too. It's not the worst kind of disrespect, but still worth apologizing to your son over at the same time letting him know how you felt about the lack of a thank you for a gift. A nice teachable moment for both of you.

 

When I read this post to my husband this morning he said, "She sounds like a good mom. Her kid feels loved enough to let her know he is pissed about her ignoring his request." 

 

We don't give Christmas presents in our house, but *Santa* fills stockings with a mixture of fun stuff and practical stuff. Today pencils and pens were mixed spy gear. 

[MrsBasil]

In my family the kid would get a comment along the lines, "Hey, that's not a very kind thing to say." or, "You are supposed to say thank you for a gift." Then we'd continue on. There would possibly be a conversation later since we don't operate on the premise that people get to dictate what gifts are acceptable. In our family a list is merely a guideline, but you may get things that aren't on it and you likely won't get everything. Frankly, saying no clothes might mean a kid ended up with clothes because it's not OK(in our family culture) to demand a certain type of gift or declare certain things off limits. We try to get things our kids will like or could use, but we've made a few mistakes too.

[Catwoman]

I do give practical gifts, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I do expect my kids to at least be polite when they open it. But I can't imagine punishing a child for not being grateful he specially asked to NOT get. I think wrapping something you knew he didn't want was setting him up for disappointment. Which is hardly the worst thing in the world, but, not something I'd dole out a "consequence" for.

I think you have made an important point. I was trying to figure out what bugged me so much about a few of the responses, and it's the gratefulness thing. These parents (and I'm not talking about the OP!) seem to think that their children should be ever-so-grateful for every little thing they give them, and they should thank them and act happy and never ask for anything specific that they really want because they aren't going to get it anyway because it's terrible for children to ever expect their parents to actually give them what they want.

 

Ummm... WHAT??? :svengo:

 

No. Just NO.

 

I don't expect my ds to be grateful for everything. If he doesn't like something, I encourage him to talk to me about it, not put on a phony show of pretending it's wonderful because he is so grateful that his own mother would give him a present. If he wants something, I want him to ask me for it and if I can get it for him, I will, whether it's right away or as a gift. I want him to know he can always count on me to try to help him get the things he wants. I want that Christmas list! I want to know the things he likes when we're out shopping. I want to know if he hates one of the gifts I bought him so we can return it and get him something he actually wants, not something I want him to have.

 

I don't understand the style of parenting where the parent is always right and the kid is basically a guest in their parents' home, always having to be obedient and always having to be grateful and never being able to be honest for fear of being punished. And the idea that a mom would choose to give her kids gifts that she wants them to have, even if she knows the kids don't want them and would prefer other things... that's just mean. And then when the poor kids get the gifts they don't want, they have to pretend to be grateful for them. I think that is awful. That's a mom being a control freak, not a mom being a loving and generous parent.

[frogger]

I have cleaned out trash cans. Not saying trash bags don't make life easier, but I really don't think they'd make a good gift.

Well, I was saying it kind of tongue in cheek, thus the smiley but I can imagine where I would appreciate it if my husband went out of his way to get me trash bags if I needed them and if you had to go camping with a forgetful wife you could imagine anything too. ðŸ˜

 

That being said I agree with the whole thing of thinking about who you are getting things for. My daughter didn't get socks this Christmas because she only wears socks when I need to make her because of weather etc. She hates them. It would be worse than getting something practical, even a toilet brush but more like a gun for someone who hates all guns and doesn't want them in their house.

 

My husband said to me once when people were touting a marriage conference, "I don't need to study marriage; I need to study my wife." A thoughtful gift giver would do the same but I do appreciate politeness on the part of the receiver either way.

[bettyandbob]

I don't want a box of trash bags.

 

My mom gave 10 boxes of gf flour. So, weird. My DC have been gf for 14 years. I mix my own flour. I know the gift was well meaning and I said thank you. I would consider an 11yo a work in progress on this skill.

[Heidi]

I agree with TammyS.

 

For me it would depend on the child. My current dd11, yeah, I would be pretty harsh with her if she said/did something like that. She would be asked to leave the room immediately because she DOES have an attitude problem that we are working on, she does know better, and that would not be ok at all.

 

However, I could also see my ds6 doing this, not because he had an attitude problem, but that he had no filter and would not realize it was rude. In that case a gentle reminder would be appropriate. However, he's 6,not 11. I hope that he would know better by 11.

 

Today, my dd7 opened her stocking to find regular white socks (dh's idea, not mine). She said, "wow,thanks for the socks! I needed socks!" I told her she just won the Best Child of the Year award.

 

Dd11 got Gummi bears in her stocking (I forgot she didn't like gummi's). She didn't complain or remind me, she cheerfully said, "who wants my gummi's?"

 

The kids picked out gifts for each other and I know they all got something they were less than thrilled about, but none of them let on that they were disappointed.

 

So it can be taught, and it ought to be taught. It's easier to teach when the kid isn't given loads of stuff all the time, when they do a great deal of work around the home and taught to take care of what the family owns, and when they earn most of what they own.

[albeto.]

I don't understand the style of parenting where the parent is always right and the kid is basically a guest in their parents' home, always having to be obedient and always having to be grateful and never being able to be honest for fear of being punished. And the idea that a mom would choose to give her kids gifts that she wants them to have, even if she knows the kids don't want them and would prefer other things... that's just mean. And then when the poor kids get the gifts they don't want, they have to pretend to be grateful for them. I think that is awful. That's a mom being a control freak, not a mom being a loving and generous parent.

 

I was once told by a school behaviorist that "little monsters grow up to be big monsters." I think that sums up this mentality - kids who are not respectful and grateful to authority become deviants in society, and that's why we can't have nice things. Interestingly, this idea has no legs, as evidence doesn't conform to this argument and actually supports other theories (such as children who are given the room to express their feelings, even negative ones, turn out to be more well-rounded emotionally and socially than those raised in a repressive environment). 

 

So no, Cat, it doesn't play out, but it is conventional wisdom. A cursory look at history of reactions to social deviance will illustrate how society has moved on from this idea, and how this idea was for many generations the standard. Society evolves, however. Women are no longer conditioned in the same measure to be grateful to be housewives. Children are no longer conditioned in the same measure to keep silent when others abuse them. Minorities are no longer conditioned in the same measure to be grateful to be included in the periphery of society, relegated to positions of service. But obviously, there are those who maintain these old standards, believing the conventional argument despite evidence to the contrary. 

[maize]

 There seems to be a blind spot when it comes to kindness and gentility when it comes to kids who fail to be convenient. I find that rather hypocritical when the argument is in teaching the value of respect.

 

I agree, and I find this somewhat puzzling. 

 

To a certain extent, I think it happens because parents experience children as part of themselves; not unnatural given how dependent on us our children are when young. When a child acts in a way that is upsetting/irritating/embarrassing to the parent, it feels like part of our own self acting against us.

 

Parenting is probably the single most difficult thing most humans ever undertake. Navigating the need to care for, teach, and guide these small people while recognizing and making allowance for and respecting their actual full personhood is not easy on the best of days.

[Mimm]

That's definitely an unacceptable behavior in my opinion and yes, I do expect my children to have gratitude for gifts, even if it's not exactly what they wanted. I wouldn't punish them but they would get a talking to at some point (probably after gifts were opened and I could pull them aside to talk to them alone) about how gift lists are not a list of demands and how people spend their time and money getting them something they will like and find useful and that deserves some thankfulness on their part. 11 is waaay too old to be saying "Ugh, clothes."

 

ETA: I consider this training for adulthood. As an adult, if I get a gift I'm not fond of (which happened today), I smiled and thanked the giver, and appreciated the time and effort and money they put into the gift. A child can be given more leeway but I do think it's my job as the parent to point out the appropriate way to act in such a case.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Mimm

[HomeAgain]

Unacceptable, yes.  Opportunity, definitely.  Keep open the lines of communication.  Keep stressing the need to appreciate the thought, even if it's not something you will personally enjoy.  And keep teaching what to do when you're less than thrilled and have the child practice it immediately.  A consequence later is of little importance compared to setting the habits. 

 

 

[Artichoke]

I'm getting a small giggle with all of the sock talk. My three boys are in their twenties and start asking for the " good" socks and underwear at Thanksgiving every year. It's their favorite item to get from mom.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Unacceptable, yes.  Opportunity, definitely.  Keep open the lines of communication.  Keep stressing the need to appreciate the thought, even if it's not something you will personally enjoy.  And keep teaching what to do when you're less than thrilled and have the child practice it immediately.  A consequence later is of little importance compared to setting the habits. 

 

Yep.  They eventually get it.  And someday they will probably have their own kids who will do the same thing to them.  LOL

 

And in the situation of a holiday and special day, I really don't want to spend it yelling and punishing.

[Pawz4me]

I agree with TammyS.

 

For me it would depend on the child. My current dd11, yeah, I would be pretty harsh with her if she said/did something like that. She would be asked to leave the room immediately because she DOES have an attitude problem that we are working on, she does know better, and that would not be ok at all.

 

However, I could also see my ds6 doing this, not because he had an attitude problem, but that he had no filter and would not realize it was rude. In that case a gentle reminder would be appropriate. However, he's 6,not 11. I hope that he would know better by 11.

 

Today, my dd7 opened her stocking to find regular white socks (dh's idea, not mine). She said, "wow,thanks for the socks! I needed socks!" I told her she just won the Best Child of the Year award.

 

Dd11 got Gummi bears in her stocking (I forgot she didn't like gummi's). She didn't complain or remind me, she cheerfully said, "who wants my gummi's?"

 

The kids picked out gifts for each other and I know they all got something they were less than thrilled about, but none of them let on that they were disappointed.

 

So it can be taught, and it ought to be taught. It's easier to teach when the kid isn't given loads of stuff all the time, when they do a great deal of work around the home and taught to take care of what the family owns, and when they earn most of what they own.

 

To the bolded -- Respectfully, no.  Not at all.

 

You likely think it's "easier" to teach things like politeness and graciousness in accepting unwanted gifts and other basic good manners by raising your kids that way because it's been successful for you.  But I seriously doubt it's easier than any other way.  Your way is certainly not how we've raised our kids, and both are widely praised (by extended family, friends, teachers and co-workers) for their politeness and good manners and work ethic. :)  And no, it wasn't hard at all raising them to be like that the way we did it.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Pawz4me

[Pronghorn]

I would not focus my teaching on gratitude but instead teach empathy. I would teach my child to think how a giver, however misguided, might feel when he says "Ugh, clothes." He does not have to be grateful, but has to consider the giver's feelings when he reacts to the gift.

[6packofun]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

 

I think it really depends on the family.  If Christmas and/or birthdays are the main times of the year when people receive regular (non-special occasion) clothes and that's typical, then I wouldn't say it was disrespectful.  I guess the way I look at it is that if the item is something I might pick up at any other time anyway, then it's not special enough for Christmas.  Our family doesn't buy things that people want just because they want them all throughout the year.  We just can't afford it.  So making a list of these wants helps US keep track of the things they've BEEN wanting and then dh and I choose from them, plus usually throw in something they weren't expecting.  But clothes just aren't it. We accumulate those from thrift shops and really good sales little by little as needed.

 

Do your kids have to wait until Christmas to get socks and underwear if they need them?  Do they have to open up underwear in front of others?  LOL

[DragonFaerie]

Am I the only one that thinks the child telling his parent what NOT to buy him was the original problem?  If one of my kids told me not to buy them this or that, I'd probably respond that I would feel free to not buy them anything if that was their attitude.  Now, let me clarify that a bit.  If I asked DS, "what do you think about.....for Christmas" and he said, "No, I don't really like......," then it would be wrong of me to go out and buy it anyway.  But I would be rather put out if one of my kids tried to dictate what I could NOT buy him/her.  That seems pretty demanding and ungracious to me.

[DragonFaerie]

In my family the kid would get a comment along the lines, "Hey, that's not a very kind thing to say." or, "You are supposed to say thank you for a gift." Then we'd continue on. There would possibly be a conversation later since we don't operate on the premise that people get to dictate what gifts are acceptable. In our family a list is merely a guideline, but you may get things that aren't on it and you likely won't get everything. Frankly, saying no clothes might mean a kid ended up with clothes because it's not OK(in our family culture) to demand a certain type of gift or declare certain things off limits. We try to get things our kids will like or could use, but we've made a few mistakes too.

 

:iagree:

 

 

ETA: My reaction to the OP's situation would be similar to this, too.  Probably something along the lines of, "Hey, DS! That was pretty rude!"  DS would likely immediately apologize and pick up the shirt and life would move on.

Edited December 25, 2015 by DragonFaerie

[Catwoman]

I agree with TammyS.

 

For me it would depend on the child. My current dd11, yeah, I would be pretty harsh with her if she said/did something like that. She would be asked to leave the room immediately because she DOES have an attitude problem that we are working on, she does know better, and that would not be ok at all.

 

However, I could also see my ds6 doing this, not because he had an attitude problem, but that he had no filter and would not realize it was rude. In that case a gentle reminder would be appropriate. However, he's 6,not 11. I hope that he would know better by 11.

 

Today, my dd7 opened her stocking to find regular white socks (dh's idea, not mine). She said, "wow,thanks for the socks! I needed socks!" I told her she just won the Best Child of the Year award.

 

Dd11 got Gummi bears in her stocking (I forgot she didn't like gummi's). She didn't complain or remind me, she cheerfully said, "who wants my gummi's?"

 

The kids picked out gifts for each other and I know they all got something they were less than thrilled about, but none of them let on that they were disappointed.

 

So it can be taught, and it ought to be taught. It's easier to teach when the kid isn't given loads of stuff all the time, when they do a great deal of work around the home and taught to take care of what the family owns, and when they earn most of what they own.

I completely disagree with the bolded. People are always complimenting my ds about his kindness, compassion, generosity, and excellent manners... and this is a young man who is most definitely given "loads of stuff" all the time, is required to do absolutely no chores around the house, and who doesn't have to "earn" any of what he owns.

 

It is very possible to have well-mannered and considerate children without being strict and without making them work for everything they have. If a child sees his parents modeling good behavior and he is given compassionate direction (rather than punishment) when his behavior needs a bit of work, he will turn out just fine.

[bettyandbob]

Am I the only one that thinks the child telling his parent what NOT to buy him was the original problem? If one of my kids told me not to buy them this or that, I'd probably respond that I would feel free to not buy them anything if that was their attitude. Now, let me clarify that a bit. If I asked DS, "what do you think about.....for Christmas" and he said, "No, I don't really like......," then it would be wrong of me to go out and buy it anyway. But I would be rather put out if one of my kids tried to dictate what I could NOT buy him/her. That seems pretty demanding and ungracious to me.

Again, the child is still a child. He's not telling a Nana or grandma "I hate it when you get me clothes." He put it on the list for his mom. When mom saw the list she could have gently corrected him at that time, regarding the tone of the request. The parent might say "you may still get clothing, I hope you'll be polite", or " you can't direct people NOT to give you anything" or somethingelse.

 

If you see the list and decide to correct in a hostile "I'll get you what I decide and you will be grateful", you won't be teaching the child how to extend thanks. You will be the child about power. If you want the child to internalize traits like compassion, gratefulness, generousity, then your response cannot be a sledgehammer. And you've got to allow the child develop these traits over years. So, extending grace in your response at a high stress holiday time can be very important.

 

Our responses require us to consider the lesson being taught.

[Catwoman]

Am I the only one that thinks the child telling his parent what NOT to buy him was the original problem? If one of my kids told me not to buy them this or that, I'd probably respond that I would feel free to not buy them anything if that was their attitude. Now, let me clarify that a bit. If I asked DS, "what do you think about.....for Christmas" and he said, "No, I don't really like......," then it would be wrong of me to go out and buy it anyway. But I would be rather put out if one of my kids tried to dictate what I could NOT buy him/her. That seems pretty demanding and ungracious to me.

I didn't get the impression that he was nasty about it, just that he had mentioned that he didn't want clothes for Christmas.

 

I don't think it was wrong to buy him some clothes anyway, but I also don't think it would have been right to demand he be grateful for the shirt. I don't think his reaction was a big deal. If he had started screaming about how he didn't want clothes and how dare his mother buy them for him, that would have been a problem, but it sounds like he made one little comment and that was the end of it.

[purplejackmama]

Am I the only one that thinks the child telling his parent what NOT to buy him was the original problem? If one of my kids told me not to buy them this or that, I'd probably respond that I would feel free to not buy them anything if that was their attitude. Now, let me clarify that a bit. If I asked DS, "what do you think about.....for Christmas" and he said, "No, I don't really like......," then it would be wrong of me to go out and buy it anyway. But I would be rather put out if one of my kids tried to dictate what I could NOT buy him/her. That seems pretty demanding and ungracious to me.

Really? The kid is 11. Eleven. Are boys who are eleven really not supposed to frown upon clothes?

 

Bizarre.