Update Post #1: Need help with SIL

[MinivanMom]

. 

 

Edited December 22, 2015 by MinivanMom

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm not implying that SIL should have personally called and invited everyone. In fact, I'm completely sure she didn't, and of course she shouldn't have. I can't imagine she made personal phone calls to anyone about the memorial day and time. But with all the family (her own family) that was likely helping out around that time, for not one single person to think of mentioning the memorial to the immediate family of the father of the the baby is extremely odd, and I really can't see it being accidental. And if it was accidental, surely someone, in the days afterward, would have said, "Where were you on XXday? We didn't see you there!" No one else thinks it's odd that BIL's entire immediate family got accidentally left off the phone chain? 

I dunno.

 

I'm picturing a convo like this:

 

BIL:  Are 'we' going to tell my family about the memorial service?

SIL:  Go ahead, it's *your* family.

 

SIL thinks, "I told him to go ahead and tell his family, and they didn't even come."

BIL thinks, "She doesn't really want them there so I won't invite them or she'll get mad."  or  "I don't do inviting in our household.  I told her to invite them, WTH?"

Edited December 13, 2015 by Carol in Cal.

[texasmama]

The responsibility to invite BIL's family to the memorial is on BIL, IMO. There may be many reasons why he did not, but that was his responsibility to invite or inform his family.

[BlsdMama]

I am really, really trying to let this go, but need some help in moving past it. If you can offer some insight I would greatly appreciate it!

 

My husband has a brother that I graduated high school with. I know him fairly well, but we've never been close. He got married, they had a kid and they live in the same town as us, but we still only see them a couple times a year at the holidays. I have an older brother that is the same. We are comfortable with our coolness and have very active lives with amazing people, so we don't feel the need to force either of these families to interact with us if they don't want to. We're friendly when we see each other, but we're not close in any sense of the word.

 

My husband's brother & his wife suffered a stillbirth at 34 weeks due to the cord wrapping around their babies neck. I got a call from my MIL when it happened, but was unable to go to the hospital because I was literally picking up pain medicine for my husband as he had just gotten out of surgery. The surgery was minor but he still could not move for a few days. I texted my SIL expressing our condolences and explaining that we wouldn't be able to be at the hospital due to me needing to care for my husband. I asked her to please let me know if we could do anything for them. I did not get a response, and was fine with that because I understand they had a lot to deal with. I kept in contact with my MIL so my SIL could focus on labor, delivery and grieving. My in-laws were at their house for the following 2 weeks to help with their living son, help her, make dinners, etc. We asked what we could do, but were told that they weren't up for visitors and neighbors had already brought more food than they could eat this year. 

 

They had a memorial for their son, but we were not invited or even told that it was happening. I read about it in the paper and the obituary that my SIL wrote she mentioned that blue balloons had special meaning to her as it seemed to suggest her son was in heaven. My husband and I looked all over online to find a blue balloon ornament that we could send them. We really stressed about this and put a lot of thought into it. Flowers have a tendency to wither and die, and I wanted them to have something that they could have out when it brought them comfort and put away when they couldn't handle it. I got the shipping confirmation that they received it, but again, no response from them. Again, it did not bother me because they have a lot going on. I was able to take her out to lunch after she came home from the hospital and we had (what I thought) a good talk.  I promise, I'm getting to my point here soon!

 

Over the next 3 months, I would text her every few days at first, and then every few weeks asking how she was doing and letting them know we would like to help in anyway we could. I would get responses, but never any indication that we could help them in any way.

 

Fast forward to September and my husband gets a phone call from his mom that his brother is upset that he wasn't there for him. My husband instantly picks up the phone, calls his brother, leaves a message and repeats this for the next 3 days. 3 weeks go by, no response. When they finally do talk, it's only because they happened to run into each other (we live in the same town). They make plans to do lunch and after the lunch we find out that it is actually his wife that has a problem with us because we didn't go to the hospital. He kept saying "We would be there for you no matter what if anything like this happened to you". My husband didn't point out that we ourselves suffered pregnancy loss 3 times with never a word from them, but offered to write his SIL an email apology and try to clear up any misunderstandings. She responded to that apology with an attack email full of just plain untruths that deeply hurt my husband and myself. Nothing I did "counts" toward my husband in her mind because the messages came from my cell phone number, not his, which I think is craziness. We are still trying to be understanding at this point, thinking that she is still hurting and lashing out.

 

Fast forward to November and we get word that my husband's brother is the only one who will be joining my husband's side of the family for the holidays. His wife just can't handle it this year was the excuse given. So, we again offer our support and say how much we'll miss her. And then we find out that their 2-year old won't be joining us either. This bothers my MIL & FIL but again, we are all trying to be supportive. We have a lovely Thanksgiving with my BIL and the rest of the family, and swallow all our hurt in order to extend an invitation to my BIL to get together anytime in the next few weeks to talk. He wants this to happen as well, but we are still waiting for a time to get together. The next day, my SIL posted on FaceBook her Thanksgiving decorations and sides that she made, as she was hosting her family at their house. This deeply hurt my in-laws as they could understand her not wanting to do the holidays, but don't understand why they are being cut out. 

 

My MIL talks to my SIL's mom (this is a really small community!) and we find out that she doesn't want to come to Christmas because my kids will be there and she's paranoid they will kill her son with their "rough play". Anyone who knows my kids, knows this is bs. Since you don't, I'll just say the only danger my kids pose to her son is if he trips over their game controller wire. That's it. I have 3 nephews that are 2 that my kids have seen (in some combination) every week since they were born. My kids are GREAT with kids. I feel like she is saying this to try to get an emotional reaction from us, and we just aren't going to fly off the handle at her. Is that what she wants??

 

If you've made it this far, thank you! I know this is long, but I really don't know what to do from here. I am so hurt that it's getting harder and harder to be forgiving and keep trying to work toward reconciliation. I don't even know what I would say if I saw her again. Is this a common behavior pattern with suffering a stillbirth? Is there any way to make this better? Should I just cut them out of our lives? Before this we saw them 2 or 3 times a year. This is an awful lot of work to return to friendly banter 6 hours a year. Any insight would be much appreciated!!

 

 

Let's not call it a stillbirth.  (That would be a trigger right there.)  Their baby died.  This isn't your fault.  You did what you could.

 

Honestly?  My guess is that your husband is simply a great target for ALL HER ANGER.

 

When our daughter died shortly after birth (12 days) no one could be there.  We were half a country away.  We went home, had a private service we didn't want anyone at, buried her, and went back home to CA, and dealt with it.   (A private service is a painful thing - being forced to have a closed casket is horrible.  Putting a baby in a ground is a horrible thing.  And as someone who just had a 12 week loss, NOT being able to bury a baby is pretty damn horrible too.  I don't know which she had to deal with but baby caskets look like freaking igloo coolers and it is just wretched.  Not being able to have people there because you don't want to deal with them is almost as awful as having them there and you're angry at both.)

 

I was angry for years... at all the people who didn't send a card, who didn't call me, who didn't acknowledge she was a person, who didn't ask us how we were two weeks later.  I never let any of it out (it wouldn't have done any good) but I just felt ABANDONED by a lot of people who saw it more as a pregnancy loss than as the death of a child.  I was angry the most at people close to us who, honestly, did what they could, but what could they really do? 

 

She would still be upset (read HURT that pours out in ANGER) even if you'd gone to the hospital.  It would have been something else.  Your husband is just an easy target.

 

 

What is the right thing to do?  IMO?  Take it.  Recognize it for what is - extreme pain over a loss that society doesn't recognize and allow her to grieve.  I can't tell you how people treat it.  My husband was LITERALLY TOLD TO HIS FACE that we can't "count" her in our kid count (he answered a specific number when someone asked him how many children he had and it included Hannah) by a co-worker because she didn't really ever come home.  

 

Your sil is grieving and probably will be for years.  Her anger will lessen and she'll realize that it was misplaced and that you did what you could and were actually really great - if she heals.  If.  If she heals.

 

Losing a baby, especially when everyone else goes on around you... Especially when they stop asking how you're doing ten days later  - because they are afraid they'll cause you pain but honestly you WANT to talk about your baby - the facial characteristics she shared with another, her hair, her tiny fingers.... You  would do ANYTHING to talk about it to try to insure you don't forget memories about her.  (Truly a deep fear.)    You're just trying to hold on in a world trying to get you to "go on" and "let go."  

 

I'll say it to you:

 

1. It's not fair.

2. You did nothing wrong.

3. There was nothing more  you could have done.

4. She's wrong in her anger and her treatment.

 

But I beg you to just forgive her.  And the insane protectiveness of her other child?  In life most people "know" that their child could die.  It's a fact.  However, it's a truth like global warming exists.  It's out there, but how proveable and real is it in your every day life? ;)  Then there are the others.  The people who have REALLY seen their dead child.  For those people - they KNOW their other children can die.  And for those of us who have watched one of our children die, who have crossed the line from praying for their life to begging for their deaths.... There is a realism that is horrible.  I am STILL overly protective about many things.  Unrealistically so.  Is she reasonable about her son's risk about getting hurt?  No.  Probably in a lot more areas  than just this.

 

Baby death is untalked about.  It's hidden, brushed under a rug.  I'm sorry you're getting the up close and personal.  It's ugly and very painful and your sister in law is traumatized.  And her husband is probably just trying to make everything right in her world in any way he possibly can.  Does he know she's not reasonable?  Yup.  Did he watch her birth a dead baby and mourn it after carrying it and "knowing" that baby for months inside her? Yes.  He'd probably cross a river filled with gators right about now.  Being angry at you guys to support her is a just a little thing... do you honestly think he's going to say, "Honey, be sane. You're unreasonable."  He wants her pain to stop.

 

That's a ways off btw.  

I'd just duck and cover.

My .02.

 

BTW, it's been almost 15 years since my baby died.  It's still a little raw sometimes.

Edited December 13, 2015 by BlsdMama

[MeghanL]

Well, we tried. It looks like we won't ever be able to repair this relationship though.

 

My plan was to stay out of it (and I did!) But my SIL wrote an email to my DH describing in great detail what she went though, but with my daughter instead. I get that she's grieving, but I will not stand by while she fantasies to us our daughter's death. Who does that? I really hope she gets the help she needs, but I really don't ever want to see her again.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

Well, we tried. It looks like we won't ever be able to repair this relationship though.

 

My plan was to stay out of it (and I did!) But my SIL wrote an email to my DH describing in great detail what she went though, but with my daughter instead. I get that she's grieving, but I will not stand by while she fantasies to us our daughter's death. Who does that? I really hope she gets the help she needs, but I really don't ever want to see her again.

Wow.

[gardenmom5]

Well, we tried. It looks like we won't ever be able to repair this relationship though.

 

My plan was to stay out of it (and I did!) But my SIL wrote an email to my DH describing in great detail what she went though, but with my daughter instead. I get that she's grieving, but I will not stand by while she fantasies to us our daughter's death. Who does that? I really hope she gets the help she needs, but I really don't ever want to see her again.

 

 

I'm so sorry.  and i'm so sorry you've had to put with people telling you you are the one with a problem because you feel abused by this (completely irrational) grieving mother.  (I too hope she get's help. before she does something that she'll regret.)

[ErinE]

I'm so sorry. and i'm so sorry you've had to put with people telling you you are the one with a problem because you feel abused by this (completely irrational) grieving mother. (I too hope she get's help. before she does something that she'll regret.)

But what I've seen multiple people say is that grief is irrational, particularly mourning the death of a child.

 

The OP doesn't need to take the abuse, but she should recognize that this is an extremely painful period for her SIL. Her BIL left his wife and child to spend Thanksgiving with his parents, brother, and the OP. I think this incident is what caused everything to come out.

 

OP, only talk when you are together in person. Stop sending emails. Unless you can talk face to face, stop engaging her. Emails can be easily misinterpreted, and she may have read more into your email than expected.

 

She's lashing out. She was wrong to discuss your daughter, but the holidays are a horrible time for someone grieving. If you can find it in you, please consider it the grief talking.

 

She lost her baby six months ago. I don't understand the expectation she should be over it. She'll remember the birth every year. She'll remember the kicks and thumps during pregnancy. She'll wonder about her baby's looks for the rest of her life.

 

The only thing I would say is, "I am so sorry for your loss," and nothing else. Don't explain. Don't give reasons. Just let her be.

 

If you want to, invite her out to lunch after the holidays. But don't feel obligated. There is nothing you can say or do right now to make her hurt go away.

[gardenmom5]

But what I've seen multiple people say is that grief is irrational, particularly mourning the death of a child.

 

The OP doesn't need to take the abuse, but she should recognize that this is an extremely painful period for her SIL. Her BIL 

The only thing I would say is, "I am so sorry for your loss," and nothing else. Don't explain. Don't give reasons. Just let her be.

 

 

yes - grief CAN be irrational - that doesn't mean it always is.  even for those who've lost a child. (and I do know people irl who've lost newborns.)

 

and there have been some comments chewing her out for objecting to how she's being treated by this grieving mother.

(re: sil claiming to be afraid op's children would kill her nephew  (btw: that is NOT the same as being afriad something will happen to her living child.  she's specifically accusing OP's children of doing mortal bodily harm.) - and now sharing her fantasy with OP's dh over the death of OP's daughter.)  that's so far over the top, it is not normal (even for "normal" irrational) grief.  she needs help.

[Guest]

MinivanMom and BlsdMama - both so well said.

 

OP, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry for the breakdown in the relationship because I went through it and it sucks.

[ErinE]

yes - grief CAN be irrational - that doesn't mean it always is. even for those who've lost a child. (and I do know people irl who've lost newborns.)

 

and there have been some comments chewing her out for objecting to how she's being treated by this grieving mother.

(re: sil claiming to be afraid op's children would kill her nephew (btw: that is NOT the same as being afriad something will happen to her living child. she's specifically accusing OP's children of doing mortal bodily harm.) - and now sharing her fantasy with OP's dh over the death of OP's daughter.) that's so far over the top, it is not normal (even for "normal" irrational) grief. she needs help.

Other mothers, who have lost children, have said it's normal to worry your child will be killed.

 

As far as the email, I think a grieving mother, dealing with anger, pain and hurt, would feel: he doesn't know the world of pain I am in - If it was his child then he would understand.

 

Her ILs didn't come to her child's memorial. They encouraged her husband to spend Thanksgiving without her. They expected her child to spend the holiday with them and without her.

 

The OP and her husband don't need to subject themselves to her anger which is why they need to stop engaging. Quit explaining. Don't offer reasons or logic.

 

Nothing described seems outside the bounds of normal, angry grief. She isn't crazy. She isn't psycho. Her baby died. Leave her alone.

[bolt.]

Other mothers, who have lost children, have said it's normal to worry your child will be killed.

 

As far as the email, I think a grieving mother, dealing with anger, pain and hurt, would feel: he doesn't know the world of pain I am in - If it was his child then he would understand.

 

Her ILs didn't come to her child's memorial. They encouraged her husband to spend Thanksgiving without her. They expected her child to spend the holiday with them and without her.

 

The OP and her husband don't need to subject themselves to her anger which is why they need to stop engaging. Quit explaining. Don't offer reasons or logic.

 

Nothing described seems outside the bounds of normal, angry grief. She isn't crazy. She isn't psycho. Her baby died. Leave her alone.

This is very good.

 

Also, there are statistics around how many couples grieve their way apart when they loose a child. If their marriage is suffering along with all their other suffering, the last thing they need is in-law troubles... She is biting friendly hands. So, don't keep reaching out -- but, honestly, she only imagined that other people might feel her pain if other people imagined loosing a child of their own.

 

She made you briefly *imagine* the loss of your child, and you became angry. (It's deeply threatening, and she shouldn't have done it.) On the other hand *actually* lost hers. She is *living* the reality that was so appalling that it was cruel for get to even fictionally suggest to you and your DH.

 

There aren't any words for that horror -- but your anger that she made you imagine it, is like a candle beside the sun of her anger that it actually happened to her. She's not coping well. She is behaving with unfair cruelty. Try to get distance, but try not to blame her.

Edited December 13, 2015 by bolt.

[gardenmom5]

Other mothers, who have lost children, have said it's normal to worry your child will be killed.

 

 

 

the mothers who've lost children said they were afraid of something happening, including death.   *that* IS logical. they didn't have a specific person they considered would be the soure of that "something", and nor did they then make accusations (with no basis in reality), that they would do something to harm their living child.

 

I do know one woman who visited in prison, the man who was responsbile for her son's death (dui).  she told him he owed it to her son to straighten out his life.

and yes - they shouldn't engage. 

 

to be blunt - I wouldn't want her around my children - as who knows what she'd say directly to them.  it was enough that my paternal grandmother blamed my mother for my father's death (i was 12) - and then all but withdrew from our lives.   you can't imagine what that can do to a child.

Edited December 14, 2015 by gardenmom5

[goldberry]

Thank you to those who shared your stories. I think this will help the rest of us when someone we love is feeling this pain, or we experience it ourselves.

 

Yes, I can't imagine it is easy to talk about.  I appreciate your stories and will keep them in my heart.  :grouphug:

[MeghanL]

Other mothers, who have lost children, have said it's normal to worry your child will be killed.

 

As far as the email, I think a grieving mother, dealing with anger, pain and hurt, would feel: he doesn't know the world of pain I am in - If it was his child then he would understand.

 

Her ILs didn't come to her child's memorial. They encouraged her husband to spend Thanksgiving without her. They expected her child to spend the holiday with them and without her.

 

The OP and her husband don't need to subject themselves to her anger which is why they need to stop engaging. Quit explaining. Don't offer reasons or logic.

 

Nothing described seems outside the bounds of normal, angry grief. She isn't crazy. She isn't psycho. Her baby died. Leave her alone.

I can understand an email saying "Imagine how you would feel if it were *child's name"" That was very different from this creepy, fantasy-description that she sent us. It's not something you can understand. I'm not going to repost it here, you'll just have to take my word for it.

 

We didn't go because we didn't know about it. That is entirely different from not going. The entire family was invited to Thanksgiving. She opted not to go. Her husband wanted to come. They were hosting Thanksgiving for her family the following day. She was not left "all alone by the mean in-laws". Her husband wanted to be with us. My BIL still wants to be with us!!

 

I would like nothing more than to leave her alone. Other than apologies that our efforts did not give them the support they wanted, we have not engaged. *We* are not the ones emailing. She is. *We* are not the ones engaging. She is.  We still haven't (and won't!) responded to this last email. But, I am going to have feelings and thoughts about it. And this is the safest place I can talk about it without causing more drama.

[Guest]

Sorry op, you don't have to take it, just because she dishes it. I'd be contacting her and saying that you're here when she is ready to have a relationship again and that you won't talk to her until that point and risk upsetting her further. Say you're sorry for their loss and wish them the best.

 

Done. No more. I don't care how badly someone is hurting - it is never right to lash out as someone else. I get why she is doing it, but you guys can absolutely ignore it and keep distance until they're to the point they can speak without vindictiveness and rage.

 

No way. Boundaries are important even in grief.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[Melissa in Australia]

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug: :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  

[Melissa in Australia]

Yeah, this. A friend of mine who lost a baby due to a fatal birth defect had to be pursuaded (gently) by the pastor to come to her baby's funeral. She did not want to go, to be the "spectacle," to be in that awful position of sitting there feeling a hundred pairs of pitying eyes boring into the back of her head.

 

When my baby died, I sent an e-mail to the board member at the homeschool co-op I had just joined, telling her what had happened and informing her of the funeral date. I was in no state of mind to do this! Doh! I gave her the wrong date simply because I was floating up in the air, completely detached from this messed-up woman typing these sad words! I did not know anyone in the group and the error went undetected until 20-some lovely ladies showed up at the funeral home a week late.

 

I'm sharing this story to say - they weren't in their right mind regarding the memorial and who was "invited" and how they got the word. Any one of many scenarios might have happened and I doubt the heart of the hurt has anything to do with who attended the memorial and whether connections were made by text or what. I'm a phone-phobe, too, and I probably would have texted people, too, if texting had been a thing when my baby died. I doubt texting has anything to do with it.

 

The sad fact is, losing a baby is a devastating fissure in The Way Things Ought To Be and it changes relationships profoundly. My SIl and I were BEST FRIENDS before my baby died; now we are virtually enemies. I tried to fix it for a while, but eventually, there was just too much hurt over lack of graciousness and/or us not fitting each other's understanding of what we ought to be in the wake of that sorrow, to repair the friendship and find happiness with one another again. That was a grief of its own for a time as well.

 

ETA: fix tags

:crying:  :crying:

[marbel]

OP, I'm sorry for all your family is dealing with.  I'm very sorry for your SIL too, of course, but also your BIL who seems to be forgotten in all this.   It seems it's not OK for him to seek to be with his family for Thanksgiving, but OK for the SIL to have her family around the day after.  I understand her wanting to be with her family, but her husband should get the same understanding.

 

I hope you are all able to put things together at some point.  Disengaging is not the same as cutting her out of your life. 

 

 

[ErinE]

would like nothing more than to leave her alone. Other than apologies that our efforts did not give them the support they wanted, we have not engaged. *We* are not the ones emailing. She is. *We* are not the ones engaging. She is. We still haven't (and won't!) responded to this last email. But, I am going to have feelings and thoughts about it. And this is the safest place I can talk about it without causing more drama.

I think you are dealing with a difficult situation, and it seems your dh and you are doing the best you can. I think she is lashing out, and your husband is, unfairly, the target.

[MeghanL]

  Disengaging is not the same as cutting her out of your life. 

 

You know, I really needed to hear this. Thank you.

[Hen]

MeghanL,

 

((hugs))  I am sorry your family is going through this.  I hope things in your family will eventually heal.  I think you are very wise and compassionate to not engage with her emails. 

[justasque]

Well, we tried. It looks like we won't ever be able to repair this relationship though.

 

My plan was to stay out of it (and I did!) But my SIL wrote an email to my DH describing in great detail what she went though, but with my daughter instead. I get that she's grieving, but I will not stand by while she fantasies to us our daughter's death. Who does that? I really hope she gets the help she needs, but I really don't ever want to see her again.

 

 

...

(re: sil claiming to be afraid op's children would kill her nephew  (btw: that is NOT the same as being afriad something will happen to her living child.  she's specifically accusing OP's children of doing mortal bodily harm.) - and now sharing her fantasy with OP's dh over the death of OP's daughter.)  that's so far over the top, it is not normal (even for "normal" irrational) grief.  she needs help.

 

 

She's not coping well. ...

 

 

I can understand an email saying "Imagine how you would feel if it were *child's name"" That was very different from this creepy, fantasy-description that she sent us. It's not something you can understand. I'm not going to repost it here, you'll just have to take my word for it.

..

 

It does sound to me like she is crossing the line here into behavior I'd be concerned about, in terms of her well-being.  It's OK to grieve, but it sounds like some professional help might be useful.  It won't take away her loss, of course, but it may nonetheless be beneficial in other ways.  OP, I don't think you're in a position to help her directly, but I would consider having your dh have a quiet word with your BIL, expressing your concern about her well-being, and making sure he is aware of the email she sent you.  NOT to enhance the drama, but to give him the information he may need to help his wife get some help.  

 

"BIL, you know we love you and SIL, and we know you are both hurting.  We know nothing we can do will bring your baby back.  We know grief can be complex, and we expect SIL will be dealing with this loss for a long time to come.  We know that this is hard on you, too - trying to support her while dealing with your own grief.  BIL, I wanted to talk to you about something.  SIL recently sent my dw an email, and it's got us concerned.  NOT for us or our feelings, but we are concerned that SIL may need some extra help in dealing with her feelings.  We're not there day-to-day, so we have no idea if what we've observed is a one-off type thing, or if there are other things that might be concerning.  So we want to share with you this email..  This is not about our feelings or reaction at all; rather, we are concerned about SIL's well-being and want you to see the email so you can decide whether to encourage her to get some professional help.  She is clearly upset with us, and we understand that her feelings are raw and her grief is deep, and we want to give her as much grace and space as she needs to heal.  So we'll try to keep out of her way so that she isn't triggered by our presence or anything we say or do.  But before doing that, we wanted to express our concern to you for her well-being, and to let you know that if there is anything we can do to support her, or you, either directly or 'behind the scenes'. please don't hesitate. to ask.  There's no shame in needing or asking for help; we can only imagine the pain you both are feeling.  We love you both very much."

 

You might want to give him a list of local resources - grief counseling professionals, infant loss groups, or whatever you can find that might be relevant, for either of them.  He's got a lot on his shoulders - trying to support her and deal with his own feelings, plus perhaps putting on a brave front for the world.  

 

[Guest]

Justasque - that is a wonderful post. Perfect way to phrase that email to separate for a time and give BIL some feedback to possibly help SIL. The tone was just right.

[MeghanL]

Justasque--I am heeding some other advice right now about not engaging and not communicating anymore through emails. Earlier in this saga, and that could have worked. 

 

I wanted to reiterate again that other than the apologies we have offered, we haven't tried to engage since. Everything is coming from her. 

 

Last night, we got a text from my MIL. SIL had forwarded her all the emails

she had sent us. I guess in her reality these emails would show everyone that SIL had forgiven us and is ready to move on. My MIL was as horrified as we were and is stepping back completely in trying to get us to reconcile. It makes me incredibly sad that she's in a place where this much anger and rage is the moving on part. It makes me sad that we are just getting this part of what she was feeling. I am compassionate to her feeling that much pain. It's hard to sit by and watch someone self-destruct though. My DH (who has amazing restraint) let his mom know we appreciated her thoughts and time and space was definitely what was needed for all involved.

 

First thing this morning, my SIL texts and wants to meet just me for lunch this week. Do I go? 

Here's what I have so far:
I go: maybe my eye will stop twitching since it hasn't stopped since this mess started. maybe we'll be able to get to a place of healing. maybe we can talk and I can be there for her in a way that she hasn't been getting. maybe it will bring everyone some small measure of comfort.

 

I don't go: maybe going will make everything worse. maybe she wants to meet so she can add me into her list of grievances, but after her email forward didn't go as planned she doesn't want it in written form so she can tell the story to better fit her reality without reality setting in. maybe the only way this will get better is if she is in a place where she can even see us as anything other than her adversaries, and I don't think she's in that place yet. 

 

So, I'm torn. I'm going to talk to dh tonight about what he thinks, but some of you have been so incredibly helpful, I thought I'd see what thoughts you had first. 

[mamajag]

It would hurt my feelings quite a bit to receive only 'delegated' messages from an inlaw but not from my sibling directly in those kinds of circumstances. So although I think SIL is WAAAAY OTT in this ongoing drama, I also think that your husband should have contacted her and his brother directly himself in addition to your good wishes, right after this happened.

Just after surgery, in the pain med haze, he's supposed to be fully aware and able to do that? I'm sorry, but that's just not realistic. As a couple, wishes from one should stand for both. "DH sends his condolences and prayers but is recovering from surgery and quite medicated so I'm doing the texting" should be more than enough. Certainly once one finds out that this is the situation grace should be extended.

 

I should show the group my attempts at texting family to say I survived shoulder surgery. They are nothing I'd want to receive if I'd just lost a baby.

 

It sounds to me like there is some pre-existing if unvoiced issue between OP and SIL and combined with the tragedy and the grief it's exploded. I'd not cut contact, but I wouldn't be initiating any either.

[Ravin]

I can't really speak to the stuff with the grief and around the death. I do think it was a pretty awful (but irrational in an understandable way) excuse to say your kids are a menace to hers as an excuse for not coming to family activities.

 

I do think you MIL needs to get over herself with regard to your SIL and nephew not coming to Tgiving at her house. She HOSTED thanksgiving for her family. For many people, that would be quite enough of that for one day, without feeling obliged to show up to yet another dinner. I would assume that she timed it so that BIL could be there for her dinner AND put in a showing at MIL's. She shouldn't have to feel obligated to invite or join in with your MIL's celebration, and frankly neither should your BIL. Part of being married is that things aren't all about just one family of origin in many cases. Couples may have to choose, and they shouldn't be guilted for doing so--knowing your MIL would take it badly may have been why your BIL gave the excuses he did.

[MinivanMom]

.

Edited December 22, 2015 by MinivanMom

[Seasider]

Justasque--I am heeding some other advice right now about not engaging and not communicating anymore through emails. Earlier in this saga, and that could have worked.

 

I wanted to reiterate again that other than the apologies we have offered, we haven't tried to engage since. Everything is coming from her.

 

Last night, we got a text from my MIL. SIL had forwarded her all the emails

she had sent us. I guess in her reality these emails would show everyone that SIL had forgiven us and is ready to move on. My MIL was as horrified as we were and is stepping back completely in trying to get us to reconcile. It makes me incredibly sad that she's in a place where this much anger and rage is the moving on part. It makes me sad that we are just getting this part of what she was feeling. I am compassionate to her feeling that much pain. It's hard to sit by and watch someone self-destruct though. My DH (who has amazing restraint) let his mom know we appreciated her thoughts and time and space was definitely what was needed for all involved.

 

First thing this morning, my SIL texts and wants to meet just me for lunch this week. Do I go?

Here's what I have so far:

I go: maybe my eye will stop twitching since it hasn't stopped since this mess started. maybe we'll be able to get to a place of healing. maybe we can talk and I can be there for her in a way that she hasn't been getting. maybe it will bring everyone some small measure of comfort.

 

I don't go: maybe going will make everything worse. maybe she wants to meet so she can add me into her list of grievances, but after her email forward didn't go as planned she doesn't want it in written form so she can tell the story to better fit her reality without reality setting in. maybe the only way this will get better is if she is in a place where she can even see us as anything other than her adversaries, and I don't think she's in that place yet.

 

So, I'm torn. I'm going to talk to dh tonight about what he thinks, but some of you have been so incredibly helpful, I thought I'd see what thoughts you had first.

If I were in your shoes, this might be my thought process...

 

IF she were giving signs of truly seeking reconciliation, I'd clear the schedule and make it happen.

 

HOWEVER, her actions make it appear that she's a heat seeking missile that has locked onto a target. Holiday time ramps up the stress for everyone, and it sounds like she's on a roll. I would wait a day (or at least half a day) to respond, then let her know, in the kindest possible words, that with what activities/obligations you already have commitments to, there's no way to meet with her this week. Suggest a meeting for after the first week of January, "when the routine returns and things are less hectic." This might result in (1) less stress and worry for you, knowing that you are actually allowing her a cooling-off period, and/or (2) cause her A. Realize how unfair she's been, or B. to react in such a way that makes it clear she needs some outside help to continue to walk through this grieving process.

 

Iirc, you've planned Christmas activities separately from the extended family? Keep it that way.

 

Fwiw, her outing herself by copying those emails to your folks should make you breathe a little easier.

[texasmama]

Please know that every story of loss shared here impacted me.  Thank you all for sharing. :grouphug:

[bolt.]

I would reply that I'd love to meet her for coffee, but a meal wasn't going to work for me. And I would go, and be scrupulously polite, warm and supportive. I'd refresh my memory on "active listening" and have absolutely no intention of talking for my own sake -- whatsoever.

 

If things turn slightly south, I'd be ready to leave before it became aggressive, so that I could preserve a brief good experience (however brief) as a building block for the future. You may need to set up a 'rescue call' to be an excuse to get away without being rude.

[MeghanL]

Very, very gently, Meghan.

 

I don't think you should go. I don't think it would be wrong to go, or that your sil is planning to tear into you. In fact, it's quite possible that she has been simmering for some time over your attitude that your miscarriages are the same as her stillbirth and she should be over it already.

 

I have not ever thought, nor have I ever said that my miscarriages were the same as her stillbirth. The *only* reason I brought up that they never said a word to us after it happened, was to show that the dynamic that exists between us is not exactly one of rushing to be by each other's side when something bad happens. We have never, ever, ever said in any way shape or form that she should be over it already. We have never, ever, ever in any way shape or form mentioned or alluded to them anything about our miscarriages during this time. I merely wanted to illustrate the dynamic that has existed between us for years. 

 

And it's possible that the "apology" email combined with the insensitive Thanksgiving stuff pushed her over the edge. And maybe, putting it all down in an angry 'Imagine if it had been your daughter; imagine yourself in our place' type letter was really what she needed to get her feelings out, and she really thinks she's ready to try to move forward.

 

I don't know why you have apology in quotations. No excuses were given in the apology. No defense was offered in the apology. I'm so sorry that you have experienced loss, but what is happening to you is not a reflection of what is happening here. My husband apologized to his brother & sister-in-law for not being there for them in the way they need him. The end. She says she's forgiven him but then cites her anger AT HIM as the reason for not coming to Thanksgiving or Christmas. If she needs time and space, she can take it. We have been nothing but supportive in her need for that. We are not in any way shape or form upset that she didn't come to Thanksgiving. We *are* hurt that she is citing US as the sole reason for not coming. 

 

But that is best case scenario. The reality is that she may feel better today after the email, but she is still in a whole lot of grief. And the holidays are going to keep triggering it. And your presence (which seems unsympathetic to her) is going to keep triggering it. So even if it's best case scenario, I don't think sil is ready for this lunch, even if she thinks she is ready. KWIM?

 

And lunch would require you to sit and listen to her grief and anger without sharing or expressing any of your own feelings. The only thing you could say is, "I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry for your pain." Can you do that? Can you sit there and say nothing? Can you control your facial expressions no matter what she says to you?

 

Is this seriously how you interact with people? You expect them to sit there like a robot? That's not a relationship. She can rage at her wall if she needs an inanimate object to rage at. I am a person. 

 

Because *very gently* you are not yet in a place of compassion. When you are still - in this very post - comparing your miscarriages to the death of her baby - as if they are the same - then you are not yet in the place of understanding and compassion. If you are still - in this very post - struggling to let go of your bitter feelings over the memorial and Thanksgiving, then you are not yet in the place of understanding and compassion. And that's okay. You may never fully understand. Most people who haven't been through it would struggle to understand. It doesn't make you a bad person. 

 

I do not have bitterness toward my SIL. I have confusion. I do not understand why, if they wanted our support, they did not include us in any of these events. Every one grieves differently. We took our cues for them out of compassion and respect for their grief. That is ended up being (4 months after the fact) not exactly what they wanted in the form they wanted when they did zero to communicate with us, cannot be held up as proof we are not compassionate. 

 

But it does mean that you are not ready for this lunch yet either. Because even if you keep your mouth shut and work very, very hard to control your facial expressions, sil will know that you don't really feel compassion yet. She will sense the anger and the judgment, and it will make things much worse. Please don't go.

 

I would suggest that you text back, "I cannot come to lunch this week, but I am so sorry for the pain you are in. I can't even imagine." Then leave it alone. And don't discuss it with mil. 

 

Again, I am so very sorry for the pain you are going through right now. But I am not the cause of your pain, nor my SIL's. 

[Word Nerd]

I would reply that I'd love to meet her for coffee, but a meal wasn't going to work for me. And I would go, and be scrupulously polite, warm and supportive. I'd refresh my memory on "active listening" and have absolutely no intention of talking for my own sake -- whatsoever.

 

If things turn slightly south, I'd be ready to leave before it became aggressive, so that I could preserve a brief good experience (however brief) as a building block for the future. You may need to set up a 'rescue call' to be an excuse to get away without being rude.

 

I think this is how I would probably handle it, but it would be totally understandable if you decide not to meet with her right now at all.

[catz]

My brother went through a divorce this year and lashed out to me and said I wasn't supportive through his divorce.  The truth is his ex-wife did her best to minimize their contact with us for the last 10 years.  He's not been remotely interested in our kids or life for that length of time.  That marriage took all his time and energy, which I just accepted at some point.  When I told him I had hurt to get over and would love to build a relationship again but it would take time, he went on and on about how horrible I am.  Sorry, life is too short.  I think grieving people have problems seeing things rationally.  I hope your SIL works through her grief.  I hope my brother does too.  But I don't think those around them are required to suffer abuse in the wake.  I'm only getting together with my brother when my mom is involved at this point (we lost my father this year too). 

 

Anyway - I haven't read any of the responses, but to me it sounds like you've gone above and beyond.  Especially if you've suffered 3 of your own losses with not even a card from them.  I would have a hard time not throwing that back at them.  :grouphug:

[bodiesmom]

Meghan-

You ARE compassionate.

I was about to post more of a response to the statement that you were not, however it looks like you already graciously responded.

You are handling this is an amazingly compassionate manner despite being the object of your SIL's hurt and anger.

Keep reminding yourself that disengaging is not cutting off.

Disengage and protect your heart.

Keep it open to future healing and reconciliation with your SIL, but right now you protect.

You are compassionate, and you have done absolutely nothing wrong.

[TammyS]

I would reply that I do want to get together with her, but am booked solid at the moment, and would any of these days (pick a few dates in Jan) work?

[Word Nerd]

Very, very gently, Meghan.

 

I don't think you're coming across as gently as you intend. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Very, very gently, Meghan.

 

I don't think you should go. I don't think it would be wrong to go, or that your sil is planning to tear into you. In fact, it's quite possible that she has been simmering for some time over your attitude that your miscarriages are the same as her stillbirth and she should be over it already. And it's possible that the "apology" email combined with the insensitive Thanksgiving stuff pushed her over the edge. And maybe, putting it all down in an angry 'Imagine if it had been your daughter; imagine yourself in our place' type letter was really what she needed to get her feelings out, and she really thinks she's ready to try to move forward.

 

But that is best case scenario. The reality is that she may feel better today after the email, but she is still in a whole lot of grief. And the holidays are going to keep triggering it. And your presence (which seems unsympathetic to her) is going to keep triggering it. So even if it's best case scenario, I don't think sil is ready for this lunch, even if she thinks she is ready. KWIM?

 

And lunch would require you to sit and listen to her grief and anger without sharing or expressing any of your own feelings. The only thing you could say is, "I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry for your pain." Can you do that? Can you sit there and say nothing? Can you control your facial expressions no matter what she says to you?

 

Because *very gently* you are not yet in a place of compassion. When you are still - in this very post - comparing your miscarriages to the death of her baby - as if they are the same - then you are not yet in the place of understanding and compassion. If you are still - in this very post - struggling to let go of your bitter feelings over the memorial and Thanksgiving, then you are not yet in the place of understanding and compassion. And that's okay. You may never fully understand. Most people who haven't been through it would struggle to understand. It doesn't make you a bad person. 

 

But it does mean that you are not ready for this lunch yet either. Because even if you keep your mouth shut and work very, very hard to control your facial expressions, sil will know that you don't really feel compassion yet. She will sense the anger and the judgment, and it will make things much worse. Please don't go.

 

I would suggest that you text back, "I cannot come to lunch this week, but I am so sorry for the pain you are in. I can't even imagine." Then leave it alone. And don't discuss it with mil. 

 

I don't think this is a fair characterization of what Meghan has shared here at all. And I don't think feeling as though you're an unjustified target of someone's irrationally placed anger excludes also feeling compassion. It's entirely possible to feel as though your heart is breaking for someone and still advocate for and protect yourself and your family. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[Guest]

I wouldn't go right now. You aren't in a frame of mind to do it and it doesn't sound like she is, either.

 

I would say, in a text, that I cannot meet with her at this time; that I was sorry for any pain I have caused her, that it was never my intention, and that I feared talking to her would lead to further hurts.

 

MinivanMom's take on it is similar to mine.

 

My own friendship with my SIL died in (large) part because she could never see or appologize for her role in things, whether intentional or inadvertant. She never said she was sorry and meant to do things as best she could. Even when I said those things, she did not return it; she sat in smug defiance that she had done anything wrong, even by accident. This was ultimately why our friendship never mended. If I could not trust her to be merciful in the wake of the most horrific thing hat has ever happened to me, then we have no basis for a friendship.

 

I say those things to say if you still feel contempt towards her (and it seems like it in this thread), it is doubtful you can repair anything right now.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I dunno.

 

I'm picturing a convo like this:

 

BIL:  Are 'we' going to tell my family about the memorial service?

SIL:  Go ahead, it's *your* family.

 

SIL thinks, "I told him to go ahead and tell his family, and they didn't even come."

BIL thinks, "She doesn't really want them there so I won't invite them or she'll get mad."  or  "I don't do inviting in our household.  I told her to invite them, WTH?"

 

In my own life, I can't imagine any scenario where this kind of conversation would take place. I simply cannot see a normal, functional relationship where the father of the baby would not inform his own immediate, close, also-grieving in-town family of this kind of memorial service without there already being underlying issues. I just can't. I suppose there are families where the DH might allow himself to be cut off from his family in this way, but I have to think they are ones with a negative dynamic in place.

Edited December 14, 2015 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[justasque]

I think, if you are not in a mindset where you can just listen, ("I am so sorry you are suffering.  I am sorry you felt hurt when x happened.  I am so sorry that you feel I am minimizing your loss.") without expecting her to listen to your side of things, then you should not go to this lunch.  
 
I am not saying you shouldn't feel what you feel - not at all.  I am just saying that I don't think your SIL is in a state to hear it.  
 
She seems to be not coping well with her grief.  I believe she needs a counselor, STAT, especially with the holidays coming up.
 

>>>>And lunch would require you to sit and listen to her grief and anger without sharing or expressing any of your own feelings. The only thing you could say is, "I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry for your pain." Can you do that? Can you sit there and say nothing? Can you control your facial expressions no matter what she says to you?

 

 

While I have different reasons than the PP who wrote this, I do believe that this is really the only way to go to this lunch.  OP, if you're not wanting to do this (and I can understand why you wouldn't be - you have feelings too, and you are not her counselor), then I don't see any value in going to the lunch, for either of you.

 

>>>>Is this seriously how you interact with people? You expect them to sit there like a robot? That's not a relationship. She can rage at her wall if she needs an inanimate object to rage at. I am a person. 

 

I don't think your SIL is capable of interacting with people normally right now.  She certainly does not seem capable of any of the normal "relationship" things.  I do think there have been a few warning signs that she is struggling to cope.  If you don't want to deal with her in this state, you don't have to.  She would benefit from a professional, I think, who can help her to work through her feelings and screen her for any potential mental health issues that may need to be addressed. 

Of course it's normal to grieve in the circumstances, and grief takes many forms.  But there is a line where things become concerning.  And that's where a professional consult, sooner rather than later, can make a difference.

[Word Nerd]

My own friendship with my SIL died in (large) part because she could never see or appologize for her role in things, whether intentional or inadvertant. She never said she was sorry and meant to do things as best she could. Even when I said those things, she did not return it; she sat in smug defiance that she had done anything wrong, even by accident. This was ultimately why our friendship never mended. If I could not trust her to be merciful in the wake of the most horrific thing hat has ever happened to me, then we have no basis for a friendship.

 

 

That's sad, but your experience with your own SIL has nothing to do with Meghan. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

My own friendship with my SIL died in (large) part because she could never see or appologize for her role in things, whether intentional or inadvertant. She never said she was sorry and meant to do things as best she could. Even when I said those things, she did not return it; she sat in smug defiance that she had done anything wrong, even by accident. This was ultimately why our friendship never mended. If I could not trust her to be merciful in the wake of the most horrific thing hat has ever happened to me, then we have no basis for a friendship.

 

I say those things to say if you still feel contempt towards her (and it seems like it in this thread), it is doubtful you can repair anything right now.

 

But they have apologized. Repeatedly. 

 

What you see as contempt, I see as the frustration of someone who operated within the parameters already set for this relationship (limited interpersonal interaction, communication via text and email) and the parameters of the situation at the time (a DH who was literally walking in the door from his own surgery at the moment this was all taking place) and whose family somehow still became the target of SIL's (completely understandable, yet completely misplaced) pain and anger. I think we can all agree that SIL's world has imploded and that anything she says or does at this point has to be forgiven. I don't think that means that the targets have to sit and take it cheerfully. It's OK for Meghan to have feelings about it.

[8circles]

Meghan, I hear your compassion towards your sil and I'm flabbergasted that people keep accusing you of the opposite. You have repeatedly apologized for things despite the fact that they that were out of your control yet people keep saying you need to be willing to apologize yet again. I have not lost a child in this manner, but I do know grief. I don't need to detail it and get approval of my life experience credentials for my opinion to be legitimate... One person's grief does not invalidate everyone else's feelings or their worth as a human being. Do. Not. Go. Do not meet with SIL. Not out of anger but because its a recipe for disaster. SIL is not in a rational state of mind and is incapable right now of treating you humanely.

 

Justasque--I am heeding some other advice right now about not engaging and not communicating anymore through emails. Earlier in this saga, and that could have worked.

 

I wanted to reiterate again that other than the apologies we have offered, we haven't tried to engage since. Everything is coming from her.

 

Last night, we got a text from my MIL. SIL had forwarded her all the emails

she had sent us. I guess in her reality these emails would show everyone that SIL had forgiven us and is ready to move on. My MIL was as horrified as we were and is stepping back completely in trying to get us to reconcile. It makes me incredibly sad that she's in a place where this much anger and rage is the moving on part. It makes me sad that we are just getting this part of what she was feeling. I am compassionate to her feeling that much pain. It's hard to sit by and watch someone self-destruct though. My DH (who has amazing restraint) let his mom know we appreciated her thoughts and time and space was definitely what was needed for all involved.

 

First thing this morning, my SIL texts and wants to meet just me for lunch this week. Do I go?

Here's what I have so far:

I go: maybe my eye will stop twitching since it hasn't stopped since this mess started. maybe we'll be able to get to a place of healing. maybe we can talk and I can be there for her in a way that she hasn't been getting. maybe it will bring everyone some small measure of comfort.

 

I don't go: maybe going will make everything worse. maybe she wants to meet so she can add me into her list of grievances, but after her email forward didn't go as planned she doesn't want it in written form so she can tell the story to better fit her reality without reality setting in. maybe the only way this will get better is if she is in a place where she can even see us as anything other than her adversaries, and I don't think she's in that place yet.

 

So, I'm torn. I'm going to talk to dh tonight about what he thinks, but some of you have been so incredibly helpful, I thought I'd see what thoughts you had first.

[Guest]

That's sad, but your experience with your own SIL has nothing to do with Meghan.

I didn't say that it did. She asked for BTDT advice on going to the lunch or not and I am giving it.

 

There are many word choices Meghan uses in this thread that make it sound very improbable that the lunch can be helpful or healing at all. The SIL is consumed with grief and, by all accounts is not managing well. Meghan is hurt and lacks understanding about several things and this is a volitile combination.

 

I think the most important mantra one could keep in mind when interacting with the grieving is this: Hurt people hurt people.

[mamajag]

Miscarriage is the death of a baby. So is a stillbirth. Both women lost a child (or in OP's case children). It's not unfair to note that her losses went totally unacknowledged by a woman who is lording her loss over the entire family. This is a big problem in this society...women who miscarry are expected to act as though nothing happened and they lost nothing. It's not healthy and it's not right.

SIL has a LOT of issues, but the OP's mention of her miscarriages to show the difference in how they were treated isn't one of them.

[8circles]

Honestly, this is really, really, an awful way to treat someone.  You can say rude things gently but it doesn't make them less rude.

Very, very gently, Meghan.

 

I don't think you should go. I don't think it would be wrong to go, or that your sil is planning to tear into you. In fact, it's quite possible that she has been simmering for some time over your attitude that your miscarriages are the same as her stillbirth and she should be over it already. Meghan hasn't said any of these things. And it's possible that the "apology" email combined with the insensitive Thanksgiving stuff pushed her over the edge. Nothing that happened at Thanksgiving was Meghan's or her DH's doing.  And maybe, putting it all down in an angry 'Imagine if it had been your daughter; imagine yourself in our place' type letter was really what she needed to get her feelings out, and she really thinks she's ready to try to move forward.  Maybe it was whas she needed to do, doesn't make it OK nor does it take away Meghan's feelings about it.  

 

But that is best case scenario. The reality is that she may feel better today after the email, but she is still in a whole lot of grief. And the holidays are going to keep triggering it. And your presence (which seems unsympathetic to her If you can't hear Meghan's compassion towards her SIL then I have to imagine you're projecting from your own situation.) is going to keep triggering it. So even if it's best case scenario, I don't think sil is ready for this lunch, even if she thinks she is ready. KWIM?

 

And lunch would require you to sit and listen to her grief and anger without sharing or expressing any of your own feelings. Meghan and her SIL aren't close.  Meghan is not equiped to do this.  The only thing you could say is, "I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry for your pain." Can you do that? Can you sit there and say nothing? Can you control your facial expressions no matter what she says to you?  It is cruel to suggest that Meghan should choose to become the punching bag for SIL's grief.  Maybe it is what SIL needs.  She should seek professional help so she can get what she needs.  

 

Because *very gently* you are not yet in a place of compassion. Based on what? When you are still - in this very post Where?- comparing your miscarriages to the death of her baby - as if they are the same - then you are not yet in the place of understanding and compassion. If you are still - in this very post Where?- struggling to let go of your bitter feelings over the memorial and Thanksgiving, then you are not yet in the place of understanding and compassion. And that's okay. You may never fully understand. Most people who haven't been through it would struggle to understand. It doesn't make you a bad person. This comes across as very patronizing.  It comes across as grieving people having a right to make other people suffer.  They don't, even if they want to, even if it helps them move forward.

 

But it does mean that you are not ready for this lunch yet either. Because even if you keep your mouth shut and work very, very hard to control your facial expressions, sil will know that you don't really feel compassion yet. She will sense the anger and the judgment, and it will make things much worse. Please don't go.

 

I would suggest that you text back, "I cannot come to lunch this week, but I am so sorry for the pain you are in. I can't even imagine." Then leave it alone. And don't discuss it with mil. 

 

I'm so sorry for your loss, MM.  For everyone in this thread who has experienced that pain and is living with that grief.

 

But don't expect people to accept being the target of cruelty because of it.  You don't have the right to do that.

[8circles]

It's been bothering me that many are discounting the advice of those on this thread who have been where SIL is. I don't understand that, as they are the ones best suited to the advice in this scenario which most people can't even imagine being in themselves. I don't think it's a case of Meghan having done anything wrong or not being a compassionate person, it's just what Quill says above--it doesn't seem from everything stated that both parties are in a state where the meeting is likely to be helpful. It could be, but the potential for hurt seems even greater.

 

Except people have repeatedly said that Meghan has done the wrong things and is lacking compassion.  Otherwise I'd agree with you.

 

ETA:  I guess I don't agree with you because I can't see anywhere people are discounting the advice of people who have been there.  People are basically giving the same advice, some of the advice is accompanied by insults and straight-out lies.

Edited December 14, 2015 by 8circles

[Word Nerd]

It's been bothering me that many are discounting the advice of those on this thread who have been where SIL is. 

 

Who is?

[Joker]

Everyone grieves differently and I think some here are being harsh toward the OP. Some are also mistakingly thinking their feelings and grief reflects all others who have been through the same situations.

 

My sil lost a baby and was deeply hurt but never nasty. Sil also never discounted my miscarriage and told me not to let others do it either. My mother lost a child but also never lashed out at those around her. I, on the other hand, was very nasty to dh after losing my dad and brother. Dh took it for a time but then sat me down and said it was enough and I needed to get help. I am forever grateful he pushed me to do so because I was so hurt and angry. I don't think he should have been expected to just take it.

 

OP, I don't think you've done a single thing wrong. I wouldn't meet with sil at this time. I would give her a lot more time and not initiate any contact in the meantime. She's obviously hurting but you don't have to put yourself in a position to be hurt by her. You shouldn't feel guilty about backing away for a while.