Update Post #1: Need help with SIL

[8circles]

Everyone grieves differently and I think some here are being harsh toward the OP. Some are also mistakingly thinking their feelings and grief reflects all others who have been through the same situations.

 

My sil lost a baby and was deeply hurt but never nasty. Sil also never discounted my miscarriage and told me not to let others do it either. My mother lost a child but also never lashed out at those around her. I, on the other hand, was very nasty to dh after losing my dad and brother. Dh took it for a time but then sat me down and said it was enough and I needed to get help. I am forever grateful he pushed me to do so because I was so hurt and angry. I don't think he should have been expected to just take it.

 

OP, I don't think you've done a single thing wrong. I wouldn't meet with sil at this time. I would give her a lot more time and not initiate any contact in the meantime. She's obviously hurting but you don't have to put yourself in a position to be hurt by her. You shouldn't feel guilty about backing away for a while.

 

Beautifully said.  

[Catwoman]

Meghan, is there any chance that your MIL had something to do with the invitation? It seems quite coincidental that your SIL invited you to lunch at just about the same time your MIL saw the emails.

 

The only reason I ask is that it may help explain why your SIL suddenly asked you to meet with her.

 

I don't know whether or not you should go. You seem quite bitter toward your SIL and you already know she has been incredibly angry with you, so the timing might not be very good right now. On the other hand, if she is sincere about wanting to make things right between you, meeting in a public place for coffee might be a good first step.

 

I wish I knew what to say. The problem is that while I am sure you would go into the lunch with good intentions, I'm not sure how your SIL is feeling. Could you arrange it so both your dh and her dh are there as well? Do you think that would make it any easier for you?

[EmseB]

I have read the whole thread and I don't see anywhere that the OP seems bitter at her SIL. Hurt and scared and needing to protect herself, maybe, but I don't see bitter.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

It's been bothering me that many are discounting the advice of those on this thread who have been where SIL is. I don't understand that, as they are the ones best suited to the advice in this scenario which most people can't even imagine being in themselves. I don't think it's a case of Meghan having done anything wrong or not being a compassionate person, it's just what Quill says above--it doesn't seem from everything stated that both parties are in a state where the meeting is likely to be helpful. It could be, but the potential for hurt seems even greater.

 

I don't think anyone is discounting their advice. However, I do think their experiences may prevent them from fully seeing the situation from the OP's perspective, the same way the OP's experience prevents her from fully seeing the situation from her SIL's perspective. IMO, those who have been (or are) where SIL is have offered a huge amount of insight into what SIL is experiencing at the moment, and it's a place of utter devastation. I'm grateful to all of those who have shared their stories with us. I cried through parts of this thread and have made several changes in my thinking. 

 

That doesn't mean that I think that people who have experienced such a terrible loss should be given carte blanche to devastate those around them, though. Especially because, in this particular case, SIL also seems to be well on her way to doing some serious damage to her own DH in the process. It's understandable and, IMO, forgiveable, but it's not good or healthy for anyone. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[MeghanL]

Meghan, is there any chance that your MIL had something to do with the invitation? It seems quite coincidental that your SIL invited you to lunch at just about the same time your MIL saw the emails.

 

The only reason I ask is that it may help explain why your SIL suddenly asked you to meet with her.

 

I don't know whether or not you should go. You seem quite bitter toward your SIL and you already know she has been incredibly angry with you, so the timing might not be very good right now. On the other hand, if she is sincere about wanting to make things right between you, meeting in a public place for coffee might be a good first step.

 

I wish I knew what to say. The problem is that while I am sure you would go into the lunch with good intentions, I'm not sure how your SIL is feeling. Could you arrange it so both your dh and her dh are there as well? Do you think that would make it any easier for you?

 

I do know for a fact my MIL had nothing to do with the invitation. She was so horrified by what SIL wrote to my DH she is not trying to get us together anymore at all. 

 

I do also know for a fact that the invitation DID come from a third party. My brother's wife (who is friend's with SIL) felt stuck in the middle. (They put them in the middle, we don't talk about it..except for on here..) My brother's wife told SIL that until she could treat us humanely she couldn't be around them. Two seconds after that conversation, I got the invitation. My brother's wife called me and let me know what she had said. She also made it very clear to me and to SIL (and since many of you still see me as a villan, I would like to share) that she was only speaking on behalf of herself and her feelings. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Meghan, is there any chance that your MIL had something to do with the invitation? It seems quite coincidental that your SIL invited you to lunch at just about the same time your MIL saw the emails.

 

The only reason I ask is that it may help explain why your SIL suddenly asked you to meet with her.

 

I don't know whether or not you should go. You seem quite bitter toward your SIL and you already know she has been incredibly angry with you, so the timing might not be very good right now. On the other hand, if she is sincere about wanting to make things right between you, meeting in a public place for coffee might be a good first step.

 

I wish I knew what to say. The problem is that while I am sure you would go into the lunch with good intentions, I'm not sure how your SIL is feeling. Could you arrange it so both your dh and her dh are there as well? Do you think that would make it any easier for you?

 

This is a very good point (that this seems sudden after MIL's involvement). That would concern me. And as to the bolded, I don't think SIL said anything to that effect, did she? I definitely wouldn't assume this is what's on her mind. I wouldn't assume ill intent either--I just wouldn't assume anything at all about what I should expect!

 

I agree with those who said that I would just very gently put it off for awhile so everyone could take a breather and maybe let the holidays pass. I think Bolt was the one who said to offer a few January dates--I like that idea. 

 

ETA: Oooh, given your above post, Meghan, I really wouldn't meet with her now. I think your brother's wife's heart is in the right place, but I think she should not be involved here. I don't think any third-party pressure on SIL would be good for anyone. SIL doesn't need that, and I don't think it will help you at all either. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[catz]

I don't see advice discounting.  I just see people disagreeing that the OP is malicious in her intent and is compassionate.  We've suffered 2 devastating and sudden losses in our family this year.  We just got dangerously close to a 3rd.  Grief is hard.  It's hard when you're in the center of it.  It's hard as an observer knowing how to navigate.  Some people are more comfortable in this role than others.  Some people mature into it.  I'm much more comfortable with my grief in my 40's than I was in my 20's and early 30's and would have been more likely to lash out then.  Everyone reacts to grief differently.  Someone else might be upset and lash out because someone was too in their face or insisted on being part of their private memorial service.  Given the history of the relationship with SIL and BIL and the fact that no one was told about the memorial service, I think the OP's reaching out attempts were good and appropriate.  Grief is such a personal thing and people cannot read minds.  I do not have close relationships with my SILs and if they suffered a big loss, I wouldn't expect they would want my in their closest circle during that time.  I'd reach out and offer condolences, meals, support, etc.  But if there isn't established closeness, I don't know how a person would navigate closer.  Especially after being told they weren't up for visitors.  If your DH literally had surgery that day, I'm not sure how you would have been any help at the hospital.  It stinks that's how the stars aligned, but that's how it played out.  I do think it would have been nice for your DH to reach out to his brother as he was able that week.   But people make mistakes.  If he apologized sincerely and was not malicious in intent, I don't see what else you could possibly do that would be constructive.

 

I do agree the parents/ILs should no longer be the middle men.  I wouldn't take information from them any longer or gossip about this.  If they say something I would just shut it down.

 

I don't think any therapist under the sun would recommend that the SIL right now should be hooking up with everyone she didn't feel responded in the exact right way when she lost her baby and verbally lash them.  That does nothing to help her grief at all.  I totally agree they should have a cool down period.  Since this is OP DH's actual family and SIL seems to hold anger toward him, maybe the brothers should work to rebuild a relationship first.  The holiday season is going to be hard.  It just is. 

[Catwoman]

I do know for a fact my MIL had nothing to do with the invitation. She was so horrified by what SIL wrote to my DH she is not trying to get us together anymore at all.

 

I do also know for a fact that the invitation DID come from a third party. My brother's wife (who is friend's with SIL) felt stuck in the middle. (They put them in the middle, we don't talk about it..except for on here..) My brother's wife told SIL that until she could treat us humanely she couldn't be around them. Two seconds after that conversation, I got the invitation. My brother's wife called me and let me know what she had said. She also made it very clear to me and to SIL (and since many of you still see me as a villan, I would like to share) that she was only speaking on behalf of herself and her feelings.

Based on this information, I wouldn't go. It sounds like she only invited you so she wouldn't look terrible in front of your in-laws and not because she really wants to work things out with you.

[gardenmom5]

Honestly, this is really, really, an awful way to treat someone.  You can say rude things gently but it doesn't make them less rude.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss, MM.  For everyone in this thread who has experienced that pain and is living with that grief.

 

But don't expect people to accept being the target of cruelty because of it.  You don't have the right to do that.

 

You said all that far better than I could.  

 

I am acquainted with grief.  (the pain of loss of a parent by a young completely dependent child is NOT the same as the pain from the loss of a parent by an established adult. and along with that pain - is a signficant downgrade in lifestyle. I don't consider my grandmother as having a valid excuse for how she treated us after the death of her son.)

[Rosie_0801]

I do know for a fact my MIL had nothing to do with the invitation. She was so horrified by what SIL wrote to my DH she is not trying to get us together anymore at all. 

 

I do also know for a fact that the invitation DID come from a third party. My brother's wife (who is friend's with SIL) felt stuck in the middle. (They put them in the middle, we don't talk about it..except for on here..) My brother's wife told SIL that until she could treat us humanely she couldn't be around them. Two seconds after that conversation, I got the invitation. My brother's wife called me and let me know what she had said. She also made it very clear to me and to SIL (and since many of you still see me as a villan, I would like to share) that she was only speaking on behalf of herself and her feelings. 

 

I wouldn't go to lunch unless your brother's wife was coming as a buffer, and only if I could trust her to be one. And since she's allowed herself to be put in the middle, that seems unlikely.

[Guest]

Based on this information, I wouldn't go. It sounds like she only invited you so she wouldn't look terrible in front of your in-laws and not because she really wants to work things out with you.

Ditto. With that new information I'd refuse to meet with her for a gazillion excuse reasons for at least another few months. She needs to do this on her own down the road, not because someone challenged or guilted her into it. That disaster waiting to happen.

[gardenmom5]

Ditto. With that new information I'd refuse to meet with her for a gazillion excuse reasons for at least another few months. She needs to do this on her own down the road, not because someone challenged or guilted her into it. That disaster waiting to happen.

I'm out of likes, but wanted to agree with this.

[MeghanL]

Ok, I am going to sit this week out. I wrote to her "I'm so sorry but I won't be able to make it work this week. Please, let's try again in a few weeks." 

 

[MeghanL]

Update in post #1. 

[texasmama]

So glad for the positive update!

[annandatje]

I would not go. You are being manipulated. I would probably simply not respond to text.  If another is sent, I'd say something like, "Can't make it but enjoy yourselves."  You are being manipulated.  If it continues, I would block her texts.  My new life rule:  do not engage the irrational.

 

For a relationship that consists primarily of texting and spending maybe six hours together in a year, I would relieve myself of any residual guilt over how anything was handled.  You conducted yourself just fine given the circumstances you described.

 

Grief, mental illness, and stress are not excuses for mistreatment of others.  Your mention of the creepy email resonated with me. 

 

We had a frightening experience when we tried to right thing and welcome a mentally unstable relative who reached out to us after suffering a loss.  Even though the details do not parallel your situation, the graphic disturbing threatening emails we subsequently received from her were downright scary.  We would have gotten law enforcement involved had she been local.

 

ETA:  I wrote this prior to your update but clicked post a few hours later without having read your latest update.

Edited December 15, 2015 by annandatje

[Word Nerd]

Glad to see the update!

[8circles]

Thank you all for your help. My SIL, BIL, DH & myself all talked on the phone tonight. It went better than I could have ever hoped. We are talking, we are clearing up all kinds of misinterpretations, hurts, etc. I really do feel that it was able to come to such a positive place because of all the feedback you gave me. By keeping in mind the perspectives you offered, I feel like I was able to get to a place of active listening and not need to defend myself. We all got to speak, listen and come to an understanding that we all did the best we could with what we had. So, thank you. We can move forward in a much more positive way and I think we will all be so much closer because of it. 

Oh, I'm so relieved.  I literally exhaled when I read your update.  Great news!

[catz]

Wow - what a nice update.  :grouphug:  I hope you can continue to have open dialog and can move on.  

[happi duck]

Great update!

[Junie]

Great update!!

[Forget-Me-Not]

I haven't posted thus far, but I've read the whole thread, and I'm so glad to read that things seem to be going in a more positive direction.  I hope you all have a lovely Christmas together.  

[Garga]

Great update! That's why I like this forum.

 

Before this thread, I don't think you would have been able to have a good outcome of a conversation because the attacks felt so personal. But afterwards, hearing that while she's acting pretty badly right now that it's not personal (it's irrational anger), you were ready to have a constructive conversation.

 

This forum is great and I'm so glad that you were well-prepared to talk (well...listen, really) with your SIL.

[Guest]

Yay! What a great outcome. I know it is still a long road but it will be easier for both sides with the misunderstandings cleared away.

[NorthwestMom]

I'm thrilled to read your update, OP.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

That is truly wonderful news!

[Carol in Cal.]

Very glad to hear that you feel so much progress has been made!  So great!

[Tsuga]

I am very happy for you and especially for her. I know that feelings aren't linear and I hope that you will find strength to be with her as she processes this. 

 

I also want to say that as someone who is actually not a horrible person in real life, who has friends and who does not appear, AFAIK, to be a callous, heartless, entitled jerk--asking for advice on the Internet is very hard and some people will see evil and anger no matter what. All I can guess is that it comes from within.

 

It doesn't sound to me like either you or SIL or even MIL really want to hurt anyone or are truly unkind people and I hope you won't take too many accusations to heart. Everyone makes social gaffes that might seem absolutely horrid out of context, but which really were the kind of thing that happen to all of us. Everyone.

 

Hugs to you and your SIL.