Update Post #1: Need help with SIL

[TammyS]

I'm just wondering -- am I the only one who wouldn't want to hear a million phone calls when I'm grieving, not to mention trying to rest and recover after childbirth?? I would definitely not have wanted to have to discuss how I was doing with every single person who called, especially a SIL with whom I wasn't all that close anyway. And everyone coming to see me at the hospital -- shudder. (And I don't like flowers because our cats try to eat them.) Maybe DH and I are even more private people than I thought, but I know everyone would be thinking of me, but they couldn't fix it, so I'd really rather most people just leave me alone to grieve, cry, yell, and feel whatever without being a spectacle. Since that family tends to communicate via text anyway, I think sending a text was a totally reasonable thing to do -- it communicated directly to SIL, rather than calling and possibly getting SIL's mom ("Hi, I'm answering her phone because she's resting right now, but I'll tell her you called"), and it let her respond if/when she was ready and in an easy way, especially if she wasn't up to talking.

 

Family dynamics can be so frustrating. You're supposed to guess how every single person would like you to respond in every instance, and with people with whom you didn't share a childhood.

 

I am a lot like you describe.  I would definitely want to be left alone (though I'm told that I'm unusual in this way) and actually feel invaded when people want to "share" my grief/hurt.  But I try to not take it as an offense, because I get that other people think they are helping. 

 

In either case, I don't feel like a text is the way to send condolences (or anything more serious than "can you pick up milk?").  Unless I was very close to the person and knew they would welcome a call and offer of help, I would send a card.  Cards take the situation seriously, while giving the person their space.  I definitely wouldn't want people at the hospital (that would have felt outright intrusive to me, in fact with our last birth that turned traumatic and ended up in the NICU, I didn't call people for days and let them know I'd given birth, and when I did I asked them to NOT come to the hospital). 

 

But all people are different and the only thing anyone can do is their best to support someone in the way that they think will be best received. And if they get it wrong, then grace should be extended. 

[MinivanMom]

.

Edited December 22, 2015 by MinivanMom

[MomatHWTK]

Over 5 years (very early m/c) here and yet sometimes it is still like  a stab through the heart.  

Edited December 12, 2015 by MomatHWTK

[Word Nerd]

It sounds like you have quite different definitions of "being there for them," and you and especially DH didn't meet their expectations. Unless I misunderstood, your DH didn't call or visit in person when he was able to, nor did he ask anyone about plans for a memorial to make sure at least one of you would be there. I can understand why they feel hurt. I can also understand why you feel hurt. I would just give her space and keep extending grace. I'd also cut MIL out of the equation and avoid communicating through her.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Word Nerd

[KarenC]

You can not know what she needs at this point. It sounds like you just barely know one another under regular circumstances, and much less so now, after a traumatizing event.

 

IMO, you shouldn't have texted her. You should have shown up, physically, because your husband was unable to do so Additionally, or instead of that (but definitely for sure), your husband should have been on the phone asap with his brother.

 

 

I would not have wanted a hospital visit from some one I only see a few hours a year at a time like that.  I would much rather someone I don't know well text or call.

[texasmama]

I would step back completely and give this a lot of time.  Things may heal in the future or not but continued contact is just harming the relationship further.

 

Grief is not rational.  Setting aside what type of functioning she has as a baseline, that is true.  Briefly because I do not want to belabor my own situation, but when my mother died, I could not stand to lay eyes on my mother in law.  It reminded me that my own mother was not here.  We were also not close (mother and law and I).  There is nothing she could have done to fix this.  She is not a very functional or insightful person, but she seemed to grasp this.  I needed her to disappear for a long time.  Looking back, she wrote a very nice card to me after my mother's funeral that I never acknowledged in any way.  After my mother died, I found it painful to be around anyone who had not had a terrible loss as mine was.  Everything hurt.  My circle became very small for a long time.  I needed time to pass.

 

Your sister in law may or may not "come around" in terms of having a better relationship with you both in the future, but right now she needs to be left alone.

[bettyandbob]

OP mentioned her dh was autistic. Does the SIL know this? Now is not the time to tell her, but one date in the distant future it may help her understand interactions with the OPs family.

[gardenmom5]

Most likely someone sil listens to suggested after the lunch that sil wasnt being treated as a 'real' family member by her in-laws, as real family would call if they could when they couldnt be there in person for a memorial service. I see this in my extended family frequently...it has prevented the spouses from developing relationships. My dh now visits at Thanksgiving for dessert, as our family isnt 'real' to the bloods and we dont need to spend the day getting ignored while the bloods converse. When my sil buried her parents, none of the bloods attended except her husband and mine and mil. No comfort given at all. If it was one of their blood relations, or just a party at her house, crowds would have come. She hasnt had a party at her house since...

 

 

I'm confused - are any of these "bloods" related to sil's parents by marriage?   I'm trying to understand why someone who is not related by blood or marriage (or friendship) would attend.  

 

I certainly didn't expect any of dh's family to attend my mother's funeral.    

[gardenmom5]

OP mentioned her dh was autistic. Does the SIL know this? Now is not the time to tell her, but one date in the distant future it may help her understand interactions with the OPs family.

 

probably not.  I deal with people all. the. time. who know dudeling has a diagnosis of asd, but *still* expect him to behave like a nt child.  one even has the attitude of "her own son has add, so dudeling should be able to ___".  (and I should just "make him" do what he's "supposed to".).  

 

 

eta: for too many people, they only come to understand what asd means, by spending ALOT of time with someone who is asd (or similar), have a child with asd, etc.   some people aren't capable of "getting it."  fortunately, the woman who is his "helper" at church, has a child with ocd, and boy does she understand!

Edited December 12, 2015 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

I would not have wanted a hospital visit from some one I only see a few hours a year at a time like that.  I would much rather someone I don't know well text or call.

 

I wouldn't have wanted a hospital visit from anyone to whom I was not close - and that included my mil who somehow got onto the labor unit!  (she's an RN.  fortunatly, the other nurses escorted her out.)  I was also NOT happy to see my mother wandering into the special care nursery after dudeling had been readmitted. (for a week.) I don't know who told her, but I. was. not. happy. she was there.

 

some people want everyone around them.  some people want only their nearest and dearest (and sometimes not.)

 

I've a df who had an absolutey trivial phone conversation with a woman she liked (who'd called her) the day her dh died.  without EVER mentioning he'd died that morning.  she wanted a normal conversation, and that normal conversation was a gift to her. 

 

and there are people who want every single person around them (even the repair man) to know and offer them effusive solace. (my grandmother was this way. it was abhorrant to me. and particularly ironic considering I was NOT allowed to grieve for my father in front of her.  I was 12.)

 

I'm a private person - and even to the guy in the hospital elevator expressing his joy his loved one was going to recover - I didn't say I was on my way to turning off my mother's life support. (while I had no interest in raining on his valid joy, I would have been happier if he'd kept it to himself.)

Edited December 12, 2015 by gardenmom5

[Plink]

Grief is messy.  ((hugs))

[marbel]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I would step back and let your husband take the lead on this since it is his family.   He should be talking to his brother and his SIL (if she will talk to him). 

 

There's no point in second-guessing whether you were right or wrong in any of the actions you took at the time they lost the baby.   All anyone can do is move forward.   It sounds as if your SIL is not ready to, for whatever reason. 

 

:grouphug: 

[BrittanyM]

I would agree with many of the comments made here about your MIL being in the middle. My son was stillborn at 33 weeks and although my grief was dealt with in a very different way (I wanted to be left alone to really grieve and would pretend in front of people) I can see why your SIL is reacting as she has. Expecting her to function as normal during these holidays is honestly a little unfeeling. I had SUCH a hard time the first year and my baby died in January so I had most of the year to process it first! And it does sound as if she is worried especially about her firstborn and she has all the right to be! I think in this situation you need to understand she's just gone through the unthinkable and quietly step back and let her grieve. In the future it might be very different but I wouldn't expect anything to change for over a year.

 

Also your sending the ornament was a very thoughtful gesture but had I gotten that such a short time after our stillbirth I wouldn't have even been able to look at it without bursting out crying. She needs time to process and in the future I'm sure she will appreciate but I don't think you can expect her to now.

 

That said I do think your SIL is maybe dealing with something more like PPD but her baby just died so every action is going to be ruled by emotions and emotions don't make sense. She NEEDS to work out these emotions so that she can get through her grief.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shellydon]

I would have been crushed if a sibling and in law had not come to my house and physically been there for me when the still birth happened.  I think that expecting someone to text you what they need is not a reasonable expectation, so I think you dropped the ball on meeting her/their needs during that time.  I also think that being afraid for her living child's life is a normal part of grieving. 

[zoobie]

OP and her family weren't invited to the memorial service. Wouldn't showing up uninvited be worse? They read about it in the newspaper after it happened, right?

 

Also, she did send a card and thoughtful gift (in lieu of flowers) to their home. It was there when the SIL got home from the hospital.

 

I don't understand the harshness to OP. Would you really want someone with whom you saw a few times a year and solely communicated via text for 8 years to show up uninvited to the hospital while you deliver a stillborn child? I don't think SIL's grief gives her free reign to say [untrue] things like "her kids might kill mine" as the reason for not attending family events. That's horrible.

[Guest]

My MIL talks to my SIL's mom (this is a really small community!) and we find out that she doesn't want to come to Christmas because my kids will be there and she's paranoid they will kill her son with their "rough play". Anyone who knows my kids, knows this is bs. Since you don't, I'll just say the only danger my kids pose to her son is if he trips over their game controller wire. That's it. I have 3 nephews that are 2 that my kids have seen (in some combination) every week since they were born. My kids are GREAT with kids. I feel like she is saying this to try to get an emotional reaction from us, and we just aren't going to fly off the handle at her. Is that what she wants??

 

If you've made it this far, thank you! I know this is long, but I really don't know what to do from here. I am so hurt that it's getting harder and harder to be forgiving and keep trying to work toward reconciliation. I don't even know what I would say if I saw her again. Is this a common behavior pattern with suffering a stillbirth? Is there any way to make this better? Should I just cut them out of our lives? Before this we saw them 2 or 3 times a year. This is an awful lot of work to return to friendly banter 6 hours a year. Any insight would be much appreciated!!

I have not read the other replies. I want to respond to this piece because it makes sense to me in a way that it doesn't to you.

 

I lost a baby; she was stillborn at term and died in labor. The ripples this extended out into both are families were epic and continue. It permanently changed the relationship dynamics in my family and DH's family. Some of this is that grief is entirly kessy and it continues much longer than most people realize, especially when there are complicating factors.

 

With SIL's fear for her living child, I totally get this. I was illogically and irrationally fearful for my living children and DH's lives after my daughter died. Senseless tragedy ruins all concept of relative safety. I fired my nanny because her own child was a wild playing kid and I was (irrationally) afraid he would push my kid down the stairs or throw a toy at their heads and kill them. I was completely aware that it was irrational, but I did not care.

 

Being around other people's babies was agony, yet both our families were full of other nieces and nephews. My one SIL had a baby 13 hours before our baby was born still. There were activities I did not attend. I was hoping others would be understanding, but if not OH WELL. I did not attend my nephew's first birthday; I called SIL and told her I hoped she understood, it was too emotional for us. I think she understood; maybe she thought we should have come anyway. I'm not certain but I don't care. So, in some ways, some of the things you are mentioning might makes sense or look familiar to me. If she is having TGing with her family, for example, I would not leap to saying she is cutting anybody out. She most likely has reasons that make perfect sense to her; perhaps she does not have to see little babies or there are other aspects of her own family that make it more manageable for her or whatever.

 

I would ask that you don't write her off. It sounds like you have done the best you can and I would just stop watching what she does/doesn't do. It most likely has very little to do with you and your DH. Grieving people often cannot manage relationships optimally and frankly, should not have to. I had family members who attacked me over what I did or did not do in the wake of my daughter's death and it is a hurt I don't think I will ever get over. It is better to have zero expectations of someone who lost a baby or child. Have zero expectations for years and years to come.

 

Also, I am not minimizing miscarriage, but late term stillbirth is a thousand times more shattering than an early miscarriage. The grief response is NOT similar. I had a SIL who processed my baby's death as though it were the same as her early miscarriage, basically shrugging like she couldn't see what the big deal was. Well, she did not hold a nine-pound still baby who was otherwise a perfect, whole newborn, did not dress her in a tiny white knit gown as the one and only act of care-giving. They are not the same things.

[zoobie]

I would have been crushed if a sibling and in law had not come to my house and physically been there for me when the still birth happened. I think that expecting someone to text you what they need is not a reasonable expectation, so I think you dropped the ball on meeting her/their needs during that time. I also think that being afraid for her living child's life is a normal part of grieving.

How could OP's husband have physically been there? He had surgery himself.

[Seasider]

Over 5 years (very early m/c) here and yet sometimes it is still like a stab through the heart.

(((MomatHWTK))

 

It's like a tiny anchor has been set in a shoulda-been reality, and the linking chain is always there, attached to our hearts. The bond is not a bad one, but sometimes a mother still feels the weight.

[Guest]

Also, one further additional comment: I had counseling but almost nobody knew about it. I am intensely private about it and having people talk about "how I was doing" was extremely miserable to contemplate. I had my living kids go to a paid childcare service so I could go to grief counseling with barely anyone's knowledge. So, just to say that SIL may in fact be getting counseling, even if it is not widely known or known at all.

[wintermom]

 

I guess I was hoping there would be a third option other than 1) keep taking the abuse because she is grieving or 2) cut her out of our life. 

 

I think neither of those options are necessary, rather step back and give them time to heal. It's a very difficult situation, especially so close to a little added stress of Thanksgiving and Christmas stuff, not to mention your dh going through his own surgery.  It's not surprising at all that under this kind of stress, family relationships become strained. 

 

You and your dh haven't done or said anything offensive or wrong, and you've been doing what sounds like a good job trying to be supportive and apologetic.  Deal with this year's Christmas gathering as maturely and politely as possible, without taking sil decisions personally. Try not to let mil get in the middle of things, by trying to fix things. That's not going to help anyone's relationship with each other. 

Edited December 12, 2015 by wintermom

[gardenmom5]

No. Funerals and memorial services are for the living. One goes in support of grieving people whom one has a relationship with. This sil has no other living blood relative. It was not compassionate to eat at her table for decades, then ignore her loss totally.

And by your logic, do you realize no one should have attended the memorial service, since they did not know the stillborn child? Callous.

 

I'm sorry my QUESTION offended you: 

My il's have eaten at my table, etc. holiday and special event meals which also included my mother, for decades. I have no close family left. the idea of any of dh's family attending my mother's funeral never entered my mind.  besides, their presence would have merely increased my stress level.

 

 

In regards to the baby:

  there ARE family members for the stillborn baby. there are aunts/uncles/cousins/grandparents by blood AND marriage to the infant. I would expect those (blood or marriage) family members to be there, (baring legitimate circumstances that are prohibitive. and they do exist.) . 

 

In regards to a funeral time and location (for the stillborn baby)- I would have expected someone to have notified all the relevant people whose presence was desired, especially family members, by phone.  the last thing the grieving person needs is the phone ringing constantly with "when's the funeral?" questions.   that is one of the tasks the grieving party is supposed to delegate to someone else. (re: the list of people to contact.)  someone's whose job is to  NOTIFY people of time and location.  (I've done it for other's.)  In which case, there should have been someone given the assignment of notifying OP's dh.  I wonder why her MIL didn't tell them?   you'd think she'd have volunteered that information.

[KarenC]

No. Funerals and memorial services are for the living. One goes in support of grieving people whom one has a relationship with. This sil has no other living blood relative. It was not compassionate to eat at her table for decades, then ignore her loss totally.

And by your logic, do you realize no one should have attended the memorial service, since they did not know the stillborn child? Callous.

I agree that funerals and memorial services are for the living.  But, just like I wouldn't want people I didn't know well in my hospital room, I also wouldn't want to deal with strangers (anyone I see 6 hours a year or less I would consider a "stranger") at a funeral.  

 

I know everyone is different and I know some people would want great crowds at their loved ones funeral.  But not me.  I would very much prefer a small, intimate gathering of the people that I am closest to.  

 

I don't think the OP knows her SIL well enough to know how to best respond to her grief.

 

However, SIL did lose her child and I can't even imagine her pain.  In the future, I would have the OP's dh talk directly to his brother and go from there.

[MeghanL]

None of my BIL's family was invited to the memorial. So, there was no way we could have found out without calling every hours asking if plans had been made, which we are not comfortable doing. 

 

Thanks for all the further replies. I have a plan now and this has been helpful. 

[KarenC]

None of my BIL's family was invited to the memorial. So, there was no way we could have found out without calling every hours asking if plans had been made, which we are not comfortable doing. 

 

Thanks for all the further replies. I have a plan now and this has been helpful. 

What a sad situation.  I hope it works out well for each of you.  Maybe Christmas will bring a reconciliation.

[8circles]

He picked out the ornament while he was laying prone on the couch. He signed the card the same day. I hit the "submit order" button, but that was about it. I don't know how much sooner we could have sent it for it to be "right away".

 

Meghan, I don't think you did ANYTHING wrong, even the slightest bit.  I am so sorry for the loss your SIL has experienced.  I can only imagine how traumatic that is to go through and I'm sure it would take an awfully long time for me to get through.  But none of that makes anything that you did wrong & I think it's wrong for people to outright say or imply here on this thread.  YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG.  It isn't wrong to text in this scenario.  Even if SIL didn't like it, it wasn't wrong.  I think you've handled this situation with a lot of grace and compassion and at this point I'd just let it go.  Don't make any more moves, just respond with the same level of grace as you have been, when given the opportunity.  You can't make this better.

 

I"m so sorry & hope your DH is recovering well.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

None of my BIL's family was invited to the memorial. So, there was no way we could have found out without calling every hours asking if plans had been made, which we are not comfortable doing. 

 

Thanks for all the further replies. I have a plan now and this has been helpful. 

 

Oh dear. I've been following along and kind of on the fence about all of this, but this is a surprise. Do your MIL and FIL have any idea why even they weren't told about the memorial? Were they at the hospital? (You may have said, but I missed it.) 

 

I'm just so sad for all of you. I can't even imagine the hell your SIL and BIL are in right now. I agree that a LOT has to be forgiven on their behalf, because I can't even envision how I'd get myself upright again after something like that. But yeah, it must be sad and confusing for DH's whole family. I agree with those who said to just ride it out.

 

I'm so sorry  :grouphug:

[Valley Girl]

I could not get through this entire thread without starting to cry. My heart goes out to all of you who have suffered such devastating losses. May you find peace.

[ErinE]

I have not read the other replies. I want to respond to this piece because it makes sense to me in a way that it doesn't to you.

:grouphug: i am so very sorry for your loss.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have never heard of inviting people to a memorial service.

 

In my experience, you invite the pallbearers, you arrange to have things announced at church, you put a notice in the news, you encourage everyone to send the information forward, and you retreat to plan it, which is oppressive and intense.  Then everyone else passes the word around and the chips fall where they fall.  Maybe you send out black-bordered announcements some time later, but that's really an afterward kind of thing.  If there is a reception at the location of the memorial service, I would go to that, too.  If there was a reception at someone's house, I would wait to see whether I was invited and whether it felt like a pretty general invitation before deciding whether to go.

 

So in the OP's situation I would not have felt slighted that there was no invitation, but I would have made sure to be represented there in person.  I would have assumed that it is a public event (services are), and would have shown up out of respect and love, no matter what.  I would not necessarily assumed that an after-event (like a gathering at the house) was public unless it was announced that way.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Carol in Cal.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I have never heard of inviting people to a memorial service.

 

In my experience, you invite the pallbearers, you arrange to have things announced at church, you put a notice in the news, you encourage everyone to send the information forward, and you retreat to plan it, which is oppressive and intense.  Then everyone else passes the word around and the chips fall where they fall.  Maybe you send out black-bordered announcements some time later, but that's really an afterward kind of thing.  If there is a reception at the location of the memorial service, I would go to that, too.  If there was a reception at someone's house, I would wait to see whether I was invited and whether it felt like a pretty general invitation before deciding whether to go.

 

So in the OP's situation I would not have felt slighted that there was no invitation, but I would have made sure to be represented there in person.  I would have assumed that it is a public event (services are), and would have shown up out of respect and love, no matter what.  I would not necessarily assumed that an after-event (like a gathering at the house) was public unless it was announced that way.

 

I agree with you, really, but if BIL's own parents (one set of grandparents to the baby, kind of a major connection) either were not given information about the memorial so they couldn't be there (and thus felt uninvited) or were specifically not invited to something that really was sort of invitation-only, that's a major statement of some kind. There has to be something more going on there, especially given that the ILs spent the next few weeks helping out at BIL and SIL's. 

Edited December 12, 2015 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[MeghanL]

I may have been using the wrong terms, we found out that there HAD BEEN a Memorial when it was mentioned (past tense) in the obituary which I read in the paper (and I read it "in the paper" via a FB link because I don't actually read the physical paper) The last we had heard, they weren't sure they were going to have one.  I didn't want anyone thinking we were waiting around for an invitation of some kind. I used "invitation" only in the sense of being told it was happening and when. 

 

It is helpful to know that there is nothing more that we can do. I know many of you hate that we text, but my SIL has major phone anxiety. She will not answer a phone. She will not listen to a voice mail. She *hates* phone calls because she feels "on the spot". We just don't do anything other than texting. It's just the way it is.  I texted her today that we understood and respect her need for space and we'll be available for her if and when she's ready to see us, however long that takes. 

 

Also, the hurt isn't coming from a place of "we weren't told about the Memorial". It's coming from a place of "I don't understand how you can not tell us about the Memorial and then be so angry at us for not being there you can't bear be around us." I'm realizing that no matter what we did or didn't do she would be angry with us because we are more dispensable to her than other family members. I'm trying to think of being a target for her anger as giving her a gift to help her grieve. 

Edited December 12, 2015 by MeghanL

[gardenmom5]

I may have been using the wrong terms, we found out that there HAD BEEN a Memorial when it was mentioned (past tense) in the obituary which I read in the paper (and I read it "in the paper" via a FB link because I don't actually read the physical paper) The last we had heard, they weren't sure they were going to have one.  I didn't want anyone thinking we were waiting around for an invitation of some kind. I used "invitation" only in the sense of being told it was happening and when. 

 

It is helpful to know that there is nothing more that we can do. I know many of you hate that we text, but my SIL has major phone anxiety. She will not answer a phone. She will not listen to a voice mail. She *hates* phone calls because she feels "on the spot". We just don't do anything other than texting. It's just the way it is.  I texted her today that we understood and respect her need for space and we'll be available for her if and when she's ready to see us, however long that takes. 

 

Also, the hurt isn't coming from a place of "we weren't told about the Memorial". It's coming from a place of "I don't understand how you can not tell us about the Memorial and then be so angry at us for not being there you can't bear be around us." I'm realizing that no matter what we did or didn't do she would be angry with us because we are more dispensable to her than other family members. I'm trying to think of being a target for her anger as giving her a gift to help her grieve. 

 

I assumed you meant invitation as in -being informed enough in advance that you could attend.  (as opposed to afterwards.)   that information generally comes via phone call for the people closest. (I've been the designee to inform people in one area, a couple times.)  everyone else hear's word of mouth.

 

I would have expected your bil, at the absolute very least, to inform HIS PARENTS.  (unless there really is something else going on of which you are not aware.)

 

this is a catch-22 situation. I'm sorry.

 

eta:  while I'm not sending out engraved invitations - I am making personal phone calls to immediate family members so they know what is going on.   if a person can't handle talking to immediate family members (parents/siblings/grandparents) - there should be a designated person to make those phone calls. 

 

the only people who "find out via announcements at church/obituaries/word-of-mouth, etc."  should be those outside the most immediate inner circle.

Edited December 12, 2015 by gardenmom5

[ErinE]

I'm realizing that no matter what we did or didn't do she would be angry with us because we are more dispensable to her than other family members. I'm trying to think of being a target for her anger as giving her a gift to help her grieve.

It sounds like you're doing your best in a very difficult situation. :grouphug:

[TammyS]

I agree with you, really, but if BIL's own parents (one set of grandparents to the baby, kind of a major connection) either were not given information about the memorial so they couldn't be there (and thus felt uninvited) or were specifically not invited to something that really was sort of invitation-only, that's a major statement of some kind. There has to be something more going on there, especially given that the ILs spent the next few weeks helping out at BIL and SIL's. 

 

Not necessarily.  It could just mean that someone was hurting so much that they really just wanted to be left alone.  I haven't been in this exact position, but I can *easily* imagine not wanting anyone to come to the funeral of a close loved one, because I would be in so much pain that I would want to grieve privately.   I'm not suggesting that it's the right thing to do (indeed, in my faith, funerals are not for the living, they really are the last corporal work of mercy for the dead), just that it's how I would feel.  It could easily be how they felt, too (or not, but there is definitely more than 1 possible answer).

[Guest]

Not necessarily. It could just mean that someone was hurting so much that they really just wanted to be left alone. I haven't been in this exact position, but I can *easily* imagine not wanting anyone to come to the funeral of a close loved one, because I would be in so much pain that I would want to grieve privately. I'm not suggesting that it's the right thing to do (indeed, in my faith, funerals are not for the living, they really are the last corporal work of mercy for the dead), just that it's how I would feel. It could easily be how they felt, too (or not, but there is definitely more than 1 possible answer).

Yeah, this. A friend of mine who lost a baby due to a fatal birth defect had to be pursuaded (gently) by the pastor to come to her baby's funeral. She did not want to go, to be the "spectacle," to be in that awful position of sitting there feeling a hundred pairs of pitying eyes boring into the back of her head.

 

When my baby died, I sent an e-mail to the board member at the homeschool co-op I had just joined, telling her what had happened and informing her of the funeral date. I was in no state of mind to do this! Doh! I gave her the wrong date simply because I was floating up in the air, completely detached from this messed-up woman typing these sad words! I did not know anyone in the group and the error went undetected until 20-some lovely ladies showed up at the funeral home a week late.

 

I'm sharing this story to say - they weren't in their right mind regarding the memorial and who was "invited" and how they got the word. Any one of many scenarios might have happened and I doubt the heart of the hurt has anything to do with who attended the memorial and whether connections were made by text or what. I'm a phone-phobe, too, and I probably would have texted people, too, if texting had been a thing when my baby died. I doubt texting has anything to do with it.

 

The sad fact is, losing a baby is a devastating fissure in The Way Things Ought To Be and it changes relationships profoundly. My SIl and I were BEST FRIENDS before my baby died; now we are virtually enemies. I tried to fix it for a while, but eventually, there was just too much hurt over lack of graciousness and/or us not fitting each other's understanding of what we ought to be in the wake of that sorrow, to repair the friendship and find happiness with one another again. That was a grief of its own for a time as well.

 

ETA: fix tags

Edited December 12, 2015 by Quill

[Guest]

I'm just wondering -- am I the only one who wouldn't want to hear a million phone calls when I'm grieving, not to mention trying to rest and recover after childbirth?? I would definitely not have wanted to have to discuss how I was doing with every single person who called, especially a SIL with whom I wasn't all that close anyway. And everyone coming to see me at the hospital -- shudder. (And I don't like flowers because our cats try to eat them.) Maybe DH and I are even more private people than I thought, but I know everyone would be thinking of me, but they couldn't fix it, so I'd really rather most people just leave me alone to grieve, cry, yell, and feel whatever without being a spectacle. Since that family tends to communicate via text anyway, I think sending a text was a totally reasonable thing to do -- it communicated directly to SIL, rather than calling and possibly getting SIL's mom ("Hi, I'm answering her phone because she's resting right now, but I'll tell her you called"), and it let her respond if/when she was ready and in an easy way, especially if she wasn't up to talking.

 

Family dynamics can be so frustrating. You're supposed to guess how every single person would like you to respond in every instance, and with people with whom you didn't share a childhood.

No, I'd much prefer texts too. Then I don't have to try and see and talk to people, which is far worse. The last thing I want to do when I'm grieving is talk to someone. That's for a few weeks out.

[Slache]

Thank you to those who shared your stories. I think this will help the rest of us when someone we love is feeling this pain, or we experience it ourselves.

[Word Nerd]

I'm so sorry for anyone who has lost a child.  :grouphug:

[StephanieZ]

Being with your own mother/family of origin is 100% different from being with in-laws. If I were in your SIL's shoes, I'd be licking my wounds and I can understand not wanting to deal with in-laws. She lost a baby. I'd give her grace for another year or so. If she's still being crazy after a full year, then feel free to cut the cord. For now, though, I'd just keep doing the very gracious and kind things you've done so far. 

[MomatHWTK]

I think what has been done wrong is to turn someone else's grief into a "but they were mean to me" issue.  If you don't like the person's behavior and are unable to respond with forgiveness and compassion, then just leave that person alone to grieve.  

[Guest]

I think the issue isn't grief but this weird vendetta/paranoia thing. If SIL was just ignoring them that would be one thing, but that wasn't what the original post was indicating.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[Guest]

This, six months after the fact, is why the issue looks to be on the Brother/SIL'a side:

Fast forward to September and my husband gets a phone call from his mom that his brother is upset that he wasn't there for him. My husband instantly picks up the phone, calls his brother, leaves a message and repeats this for the next 3 days. 3 weeks go by, no response. When they finally do talk, it's only because they happened to run into each other (we live in the same town). They make plans to do lunch and after the lunch we find out that it is actually his wife that has a problem with us because we didn't go to the hospital. He kept saying "We would be there for you no matter what if anything like this happened to you". My husband didn't point out that we ourselves suffered pregnancy loss 3 times with never a word from them, but offered to write his SIL an email apology and try to clear up any misunderstandings. She responded to that apology with an attack email full of just plain untruths that deeply hurt my husband and myself. Nothing I did "counts" toward my husband in her mind because the messages came from my cell phone number, not his, which I think is craziness. We are still trying to be understanding at this point, thinking that she is still hurting and lashing out.

Just wanting to be left alone or ignoring contact makes sense. Lashing out is even understandable. But this truly reminds me more of a psychotic break or deep in depression land. Pinning it on the OP makes no sense, it sounds like the response they're getting to normal overtures is way over the top. That's why I'd lean on the side of leaving them alone until they come to you. Be cordial, but you don't need to take nonsense if they have made it clear they don't want anything to do with you. Edited December 12, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[marbel]

Being with your own mother/family of origin is 100% different from being with in-laws. If I were in your SIL's shoes, I'd be licking my wounds and I can understand not wanting to deal with in-laws. She lost a baby. I'd give her grace for another year or so. If she's still being crazy after a full year, then feel free to cut the cord. For now, though, I'd just keep doing the very gracious and kind things you've done so far. 

 

I understand this but her husband lost a baby too.   I have never been through this, but I can't imagine excluding my husband's family from such a thing.  It's not just her loss.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

No, I'd much prefer texts too. Then I don't have to try and see and talk to people, which is far worse. The last thing I want to do when I'm grieving is talk to someone. That's for a few weeks out.

I wouldn't want to talk to people, but I would want them to call or write an actual card or letter.  But I'd leave my answering machine to take the messages. 

 

That's why I don't see any problem with the phone message not getting returned.  Because I know how that can be.  You just can't talk about it, but that doesn't stop you from being grateful that people made an effort.

[8circles]

I think what has been done wrong is to turn someone else's grief into a "but they were mean to me" issue.  If you don't like the person's behavior and are unable to respond with forgiveness and compassion, then just leave that person alone to grieve.  

 

She hasn't done that.  She is trying to figure out if there is something that she did wrong, because SIL is, in her understandable grief, being irrational and acting as if Meghan & her DH have behaved wrongly.  I think she is pretty clear now, that this irrational behavior is a legit part of grief and is being quite gracious about it.  

 

No need for you to insult Meghan.  

Edited December 12, 2015 by 8circles

[8circles]

I wouldn't want to talk to people, but I would want them to call or write an actual card or letter.  But I'd leave my answering machine to take the messages. 

 

That's why I don't see any problem with the phone message not getting returned.  Because I know how that can be.  You just can't talk about it, but that doesn't stop you from being grateful that people made an effort.

 

And for many people, a text is enough.  It's just a different form of communication.  You used to hear much the same complaints (from people who complained about such things) about "she called to thank me & didn't even send a card".  It doesn't make sending a text wrong just like calling and thanking someone on the phone isn't wrong.    Meghan isn't at fault for not knowing SIL's communication preferences, if this is even the issue.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Not necessarily.  It could just mean that someone was hurting so much that they really just wanted to be left alone.  I haven't been in this exact position, but I can *easily* imagine not wanting anyone to come to the funeral of a close loved one, because I would be in so much pain that I would want to grieve privately.   I'm not suggesting that it's the right thing to do (indeed, in my faith, funerals are not for the living, they really are the last corporal work of mercy for the dead), just that it's how I would feel.  It could easily be how they felt, too (or not, but there is definitely more than 1 possible answer).

 

I'm not implying that SIL should have personally called and invited everyone. In fact, I'm completely sure she didn't, and of course she shouldn't have. I can't imagine she made personal phone calls to anyone about the memorial day and time. But with all the family (her own family) that was likely helping out around that time, for not one single person to think of mentioning the memorial to the immediate family of the father of the the baby is extremely odd, and I really can't see it being accidental. And if it was accidental, surely someone, in the days afterward, would have said, "Where were you on XXday? We didn't see you there!" No one else thinks it's odd that BIL's entire immediate family got accidentally left off the phone chain? 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

NM. My opinion doesn't matter anyway, since I'm not in my Meghan's family! 

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by ILiveInFlipFlops

[Danestress]

I understand this but her husband lost a baby too. I have never been through this, but I can't imagine excluding my husband's family from such a thing. It's not just her loss.

 

But he went to thanksgiving with his family.

[StephanieZ]

I understand this but her husband lost a baby too.   I have never been through this, but I can't imagine excluding my husband's family from such a thing.  It's not just her loss.

 

 

The husband went to be with his family. It's entirely possible that the two of them are processing things differently. She may want/need the familiarity of her own blood family, but be uncomfortable around anyone else. I know that if I had ever suffered such a catastrophic loss, I'd want nothing to do with my husband's relatives. My husband probably wouldn't *want* to be around any of his relatives (or my relatives) during such a time. He'd only *want* to be around me and our kids. I would have wanted the comfort of my mom and dad (when they were alive, they are both gone now). However, he might have been OK with being around his relatives with or without me. 

 

I'm just saying to let it go, keep being as wonderfully gracious as the OP has already been. Don't take it personally. Just let it go, keep being kind, wait it out for at least a year, and hope that the SIL recovers her balance and can again be a reasonably kind SIL. If she's still a bitch after a year or two, then, fine, cut your losses or whatever, but, IMHO, it is the right thing to keep being gracious and patient and doing whatever SIL and BIL ask (or don't ask) and don't take it personally that SIL is clinging to her family of origin and her own nuclear family and doesn't want to deal much with in-laws and/or is not very gracious herself. She lost a baby; she needs grace.