ErinE Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 :grouphug: That's rough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 This is typical man-speak for "make things easy for me so I don't have to be in the middle and actually deal with the problem". They also don't get that not everyone can just "tune out". He's probably spent his life tuning her out and disconnecting her craziness from his feelings. You are right in that you shouldn't have to. It does bother you and you shouldn't have to put up with it. ugh. I feel for you. Yup You can't deal with her though. She is truly a nasty person. I'm not exaggerating things at all. I think it's rather unfair to expect me to just "ignore it". Like I'm some kind of super human who can just let it all roll off. No, I can't. She can be as nasty as she wants to be, but I have to "ignore it"? How is that even fair? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen State Sue Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 How old is your mil? You said your fil has passed, and I was just wondering if this might be the last time you would have to put up with her and the last time possibly your dh would see his mom and brother. When was the last time you visited her (or she came to visit you)? Just wondering how often these visits are expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well, if you define "win" as you and the kids not going to see her, you can win. If winning requires your DH to be happy about it, then no - you can't win. But I really don't think you should go, for all the reasons previously stated. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 At least the beer is cheap and floweth freely. That will be the only way I can get through this. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thing is he never says stuff like, "I miss her and want to see her." If he said that, I'd zip it and never let on it bothered me. He clearly only feels obligated. He says stuff like, "You can't pick your family." Ok so let me get this straight, you aren't thrilled either, yet you go? Why?! Would your awesome therapist have a rec for one for him? My DH felt so much better when a "professional" told him that yes, his parents are crazy and abusive, and no, he's not obligated to spend time with them. That helped him let go. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparrowsNest Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 A few thoughts from someone whose MIL is crazy mean... 1- you cannot change your husband's way of dealing with her 2- you cannot control your MIL by being nice, or mean, or direct, or withdrawn, or any other way. She doesn't care about you, so your feelings or responses are irrelevant except insofar as they allow her to manipulate others through them. 3- you can only control your response to the situation I did the go along to get along thing for years and finally, when she began manipulating my children, I drew the line. I refused to present myself or the children to her for abuse. I support my husband in having whatever kind of relationship he wants with her. He has a very, "yes, she's mean and cruel and abusive, but, well, that's just how she is" attitude about anything she does. He agrees that it's awful, he just feels powerless, I think, and obligated. Regardless, if your MIL is in another country, she has to be a fairly peripheral figure. I might just smile and nod and suddenly have an upset stomach very soon after dinner, or jet lag, or traveler's virus of unknown etiology. But if you are ready to say no, well, you're not alone. :) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 :grouphug: we used to host thanksgiving. every. single. year. for 25+ years. one member of dh's family . . . . . let's just say it did take years of our family demanding we stop because of issues to which he was oblivious. (dh: it's just one day . . . .me: after three months of stress! in the preparations and clean-up, and rude treatment the day of!). we finally stopped, and this relative hosted (she hates hosting. HATES! even went so far as to announce TO THE EXTENDED FAMILY the family thanksgiving for last year would be back at our house. um, no.) - and he finally started seeing what we were complaining about. this relative has announced she will never do thanksgiving for everyone again - and is blaming me for breaking up their "family reunion". It's taken a few years for me to even start to stop hating thanksgiving. I'm all for family relationships - but sometimes that is simply not reasonable. can you meet in a third-party location? can you stay in a hotel in her town? (then as soon as she's mean - grab your kids and say "see you tomorrow". leave dh with her since he thinks she's wonderful.) can you simply put your foot down that you. will. not. go. end of discussion. depending upon ages of kids - you might give them the option. how does she treat them? if she's horrible to them, I'm not sure I would even allow them to go. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 How old is your mil? You said your fil has passed, and I was just wondering if this might be the last time you would have to put up with her and the last time possibly your dh would see his mom and brother. When was the last time you visited her (or she came to visit you)? Just wondering how often these visits are expected. She is in her 60s. Her father lived to be 98 and her mother 90. I don't know if I can rely on this hope. LOL 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Would your awesome therapist have a rec for one for him? My DH felt so much better when a "professional" told him that yes, his parents are crazy and abusive, and no, he's not obligated to spend time with them. That helped him let go. She told me to tell him how I feel. I told him she told me. I wouldn't listen if I did not agree with her. What is the best he could say? He agrees with the therapist and me. That does not help me! LOL I dunno. Maybe I can try to plan stuff so we can stay busy and not sitting around with her too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I would never ever borrow money to see my in laws. Mine live in Washington state and don't have room for us to stay with them. So the prospect of seeing them in their house is several thousand at least (never mind the fact that my family is also out there so we would have to stay for a month). The last time we were out there my oldest was 10-11 months. He turns 7 next month. Your mil may not like it, but if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. I would be blunt about it with your DH too. Skype and FaceTime are free. You can do that till you can afford to go there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 I would never ever borrow money to see my in laws. Mine live in Washington state and don't have room for us to stay with them. So the prospect of seeing them in their house is several thousand at least (never mind the fact that my family is also out there so we would have to stay for a month). The last time we were out there my oldest was 10-11 months. He turns 7 next month. Your mil may not like it, but if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. I would be blunt about it with your DH too. Skype and FaceTime are free. You can do that till you can afford to go there. Eh I don't mind borrowing money. But no we don't have $5000 + laying around so yeah that is what we'd have to do. We almost never take vacations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If her health is not iffy, I would encourage you to skip it this year, and maybe create a new tradition where you (and maybe the boys) just visit her every other year. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't kill anyone. It might even make the trip easier for your husband and your MIL. Another option is to plan a tour of some nearby countries, so you and the boys can say hi in Germany, leave after a day or two, have some nice educational leisurely experiences, come back to Grandma's for a couple days and escort your DH home. If her health is iffy, I would suck it up and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryJen Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 60s is not very old. I have gotten cranky about people (read relatives) telling me how I should feel about things and then based on those (not mine) feelings what I should do with my limited money and even more limited time. She needs to be the one making all this happen. And if she won't or doesn't care (my guess)....you won't make an effort either. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 If her health is not iffy, I would encourage you to skip it this year, and maybe create a new tradition where you (and maybe the boys) just visit her every other year. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't kill anyone. It might even make the trip easier for your husband and your MIL. Another option is to plan a tour of some nearby countries, so you and the boys can say hi in Germany, leave after a day or two, have some nice educational leisurely experiences, come back to Grandma's for a couple days and escort your DH home. If her health is iffy, I would suck it up and go. We haven't been in three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Just do not go. Your husband should go. You and the kids can go next time. It is clearly too expensive now. You should not borrow money for this trip; it is not a wise decision. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 We haven't been in three years. I suggest shooting for 4 with a long-term goal of 10. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 60s is not very old. I have gotten cranky about people (read relatives) telling me how I should feel about things and then based on those (not mine) feelings what I should do with my limited money and even more limited time. She needs to be the one making all this happen. And if she won't or doesn't care (my guess)....you won't make an effort either. Oh I do know she wants us to come. She sent us $1500. It doesn't really put a dent in the cost, but it's something. She'd put out a good spread for sure. I just ugh..I'm not in the right frame of mind to endure her flipping nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 I suggest shooting for 4 with a long-term goal of 10. never sounds good LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 never sounds good LOL Yes, by the time you hit 10 I would hope out of sight, out of mind. As in, you'd be out of your mind to start it up again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well, if you haven't been in 3 years I would suggest going, but break up the trip with a European tour with the kids. And maybe make this a tradition going forward. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thing is he never says stuff like, "I miss her and want to see her." If he said that, I'd zip it and never let on it bothered me. He clearly only feels obligated. He says stuff like, "You can't pick your family." Ok so let me get this straight, you aren't thrilled either, yet you go? Why?! Next time he says that I'd be tempted to respond with something like, "That's true you can't. But what you can pick is the kind of relationship you have with them, and how often you have contact with them." Okay, so I saw that this is a vent and a JAWM. Feel free to ignore or shoot down my recommendation. Learn a few general phrases that would be appropriately sarcastic responses to the kinds of things she says to and about you. Pull them out and use them when you know what she said. Learn one or two pat responses that could be said regardless of her comments. Say all of them as though you're shocked - shocked! - that she would talk to her husband's wife/the mother of her grandchildren/a guest in her home/anyone who breathes, in that manner. Some examples: --I can't believe you just said that to my face. --What a rude thing to say/do. --Are you this mean to everyone or only the people in your family (or who married one of your sons, or married one of your children)? --It always makes me feel better knowing I only hear this verbal abuse once a year (or however often you visit). And if she says things to or about any of the kids - -I am their mother, not you. You do not have the right to treat them that way. Please stop. ...And a few others like that. Even if you repeat the same one or two comments over and over, she'll get the message that she isn't the queen bee she thinks she is. They might sound mean, but they would only be mean/rude if they weren't in response to her repeated mistreatment of you. If nothing else, maybe your dh will never again insist that you go with him to visit her. I doubt those sentences will be in your basic German-English phrase book, so get cracking and learn them! :D 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 She is in her 60s. Her father lived to be 98 and her mother 90. I don't know if I can rely on this hope. LOL you can't. mil is 90 this year. her father was 95. I've learned to appreciate her over the years - but being in a wheelchair has slowed her down considerably. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryJen Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If she sent $1500, that covers your husband. He should go and then plan a trip in a few years to take the kids ( who will be charming teens by that time). You do not have to go and you can spend the next few years drilling Kathy's phrases into their heads. 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Nope, nope, nope, nope. You are not obligated to pay her obeisance. So, what...? She doesn't like you, she tears down the kids (which would be enough in itself for me to stay home), and isn't even nice to her own son? Oh, AND it costs YOU a bunch of money. I don't think anyone should be forced to maintain relationships with such a toxic person. Like Joanne said in another thread, she has chosen, by her actions, to forfeit a relationship with you guys. *If she sent enough to cover your DH, I suppose he could always go alone. **Take the money and take a real vacation... in the opposite direction! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 60s is not very old. for sure . . . .. dh is 67 . . . . he's still working (home business with flexible schedule) with no plans on retiring anytime soon. (he's even gotten involved with a new "venture" we'll see is anything comes of it. but it's keeping him busy and entertained!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 In part yes he tells me although I told him not to so he stopped telling me what she says about me in particular (but not about what she says regarding other people). She will just sit there and be mean and make him tell me what she said, or I understand enough to know what she said. I dunno. For years I just bit my tongue. When we used to go there my FIL would at least tell her to knock it off when it got very bad. But he is no longer alive. So it's just her. I don't know if I can take it. I hope this doesn't sound super mean, but I have to say it. I cannot believe your husband tolerates that and makes you play along. You should absolutely not feel obligated to go. Sounds like she doesn't even want you there. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I suggest shooting for 4 with a long-term goal of 10. I suggest waiting until you have actually saved up $5K so you don't have to go in debt to make the trip. Then decide if that's how you truly want to spend the money. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 I hope this doesn't sound super mean, but I have to say it. I cannot believe your husband tolerates that and makes you play along. You should absolutely not feel obligated to go. Sounds like she doesn't even want you there. he explains everything in this totally positive way "I don't think she means badly" "When she says you are doing it wrong I think she means she wants to help." Ummm NOOOO That is not how it is. Good grief. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thing is he never says stuff like, "I miss her and want to see her." If he said that, I'd zip it and never let on it bothered me. He clearly only feels obligated. He says stuff like, "You can't pick your family." Ok so let me get this straight, you aren't thrilled either, yet you go? Why?! You can pick who you let abuse you. If someone treated my kids badly, they'd never see them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm firmly in Team Stay Home. Imagine that this sign says NOPE!*-------> :iagree: *And that the little guy is shaking his head instead of nodding. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yucabird Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Life is way too short to spend it with repulsive people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm going to give you a big hug and agree that it sounds like an impossible situation. Someone is going to be unhappy. :grouphug: I hope you can find a solution that doesn't include you paying to be harassed/abused and I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 My ILs are pretty nice, and we've only flown to visit them once in the past 8 years. (They do come and see us.) I wouldn't go to the next county for the kind of treatment you describe. If you're in her house and don't have the $$ for a hotel, she knows you're a captive audience! Add me to Team Stay Home and Your DH Can Get Over It. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Booooooooooooooooooooo!! On top of being STUCK dealing with her when you're there, you're kind of out of sorts because you literally couldn't BE further from your home turf. Which would fine, if you weren't being put up by the wicked witch of Grimm forest. I love Florida Lady's list but for crying out loud! Better learn how to cuss like a German sailor! Seriously, have it out with her. Either she'll acquiesce OR your husband will never ever ever want to go through that again, or both, even better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 he explains everything in this totally positive way "I don't think she means badly" "When she says you are doing it wrong I think she means she wants to help." Ummm NOOOO That is not how it is. Good grief. LOL Then she needs to say, "I want to help." You are relying on your dh to translate. Your dh should value your feelings. He should work out with his mom what she meant to say before he tells you what she said. He needs to call her out on her rudeness. Do you speak to your dh the way your mil speaks to you? Maybe y'all could do a little social experiment. You spend a week speaking to him the way she speaks to you. See how he likes it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 She sent enough to see him. She likes him. Let him go. There just isn't any reason for you or the kids to make this trip any more. Any obligation you feel is imaginary. 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Yeah you'd think except she won't do that. Why? Nobody can please her highness. Last time she was here she locked herself in our bedroom for days and would not come out because DH told her to stop rearranging our closets and furniture. (trying to make you laugh...) IMO, that actually sounds kinds nice! FIll your room and closets with the heaviest things you can find. Let her lock herslef in for an entire week, and ENJOY! And so so sorry this is your situation. :grouphug: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 You said JAWM, so I agree. You can't win. Either your MIL will be upset, your dh will be upset, or you will be upset. So, no, you can't win. That said, tell your dh to go and tell him to go without guilt and enjoy himself. The kids don't know her, she's mean to them (and to you!), so why subject them to that? He knows what she's like and any obligation to see her is on him, not you. It's his mom, I get that, but why does he want you and the kids to go? I see absolutely no problem with him going on his own. In fact, I view it as the perfect solution. He gets to see her, she gets to see him, your sanity is preserved, and you have protected the kids from her meanness. If she had sent enough money to cover ALL of the expenses, my answer might be different, but she sent money enough for him. That may or may not have been her intention, but that's how it worked out. You can't afford the difference. Tell him, nicely, that he needs to go see her alone. She can Skype with the kids, and sometimes, you know, those connections can be tricky. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 (trying to make you laugh...) IMO, that actually sounds kinds nice! FIll your room and closets with the heaviest things you can find. Let her lock herslef in for an entire week, and ENJOY! And so so sorry this is your situation. :grouphug: it was completely pointless though because we had just bought a house and were in the process of moving she doesn't just shut up and rearrange though...she berates the entire time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 You said JAWM, so I agree. You can't win. Either your MIL will be upset, your dh will be upset, or you will be upset. So, no, you can't win. That said, tell your dh to go and tell him to go without guilt and enjoy himself. The kids don't know her, she's mean to them (and to you!), so why subject them to that? He knows what she's like and any obligation to see her is on him, not you. It's his mom, I get that, but why does he want you and the kids to go? I see absolutely no problem with him going on his own. In fact, I view it as the perfect solution. He gets to see her, she gets to see him, your sanity is preserved, and you have protected the kids from her meanness. If she had sent enough money to cover ALL of the expenses, my answer might be different, but she sent money enough for him. That may or may not have been her intention, but that's how it worked out. You can't afford the difference. Tell him, nicely, that he needs to go see her alone. She can Skype with the kids, and sometimes, you know, those connections can be tricky. Yeah i know...no good answer here.... oh no she wanted to help make the trip a little less expensive, so that probably is the one "nice" thing she did...but ugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 I don't think my husband would go without me to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Tell him to fly her here if he wants to visit. We just refuse to try and see family anymore because of the cost of tickets, and we have found they are more deferential in our home as opposed to when they are on home turf. Say no and stand your ground. If he wants to visit with the kids he can, but he can't make you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 You could always return the money and let her know it's not possible to schedule a family trip at this time. The end. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 You could always return the money and let her know it's not possible to schedule a family trip at this time. The end. Yup. Save yourself the headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalea Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm curious, why do you think your husband would not go without you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 It's her decision to not come visit even though it would be cheaper for her to come than for your family to go. If she's allowed to make that decision, why aren't you? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Are you expected to do the trip annually? If so, I'd skip a year, what with the expired passports and borrowing, and tell DH you will plan on it next year... My in laws are not mean,not on purpose anyway, but it is not good for our marriage when I travel to Dh's hometown. Just entirely different worlds colliding and some baggage (I'm a foreigner, too ;)). So I choose to go as rarely as possible. The issue is I don't really want to send my DC without me so when I go, it is for that reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 If you're going to feel bad anyway, it's better to feel bad in the comfort of your own home, keeping your children safe from emotional scars, and with thousands of extra dollars in your pocket. You'll be giving her to gift of badmouth ing her DIL. Everybody wins. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I thoroughly sympathize Sparkly, my FIL is a complete jerk. TBH, nobody likes him much except his equally jerky brothers. I do suck it up and go to Venezuela every year--except that this year I got a "complete social collapse" reprieve. Since Germany is unlikely to experience empty supermarkets and forced expulsions, you'll have to just hold pat on the credit card debt argument. You could also send just one kid with your dh. My dad did that with me to go to visit his family in Hungary and it was actually sort of fun. I spoke a bit of Hungarian and I certainly improved a lot when I had to use it 24/7. Maybe you could frame it as a language learning trip for your older ds and have him learn some German to prep for the trip. He'd need total immersion, so you just got your monolingual self off the hook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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