I doubt I can win here...(vent JAWM)

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't want to visit my MIL next year.  It's the first time I've flat out said so to DH.  I feel terrible, but I just don't think I can.  She is mean.  Mean does not scratch the surface.  The trip will cost thousands of dollars and it's all to go visit a mean mean mean person.  Really what's not to love about that?!

 

*sigh*

 

 

[maize]

Could your dh just go with the kids?

[Rebel Yell]

Is there any reason why you'd be expected to go?  As in, gotta take the little children but you don't want to leave them alone with her?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Could your dh just go with the kids?

 

So she can treat them like crap and tear them down?  I couldn't survive that entire time thinking about that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Is there any reason why you'd be expected to go?  As in, gotta take the little children but you don't want to leave them alone with her?

 

I'm always expected to go.

 

The kids aren't that little anymore either.

[marbel]

I hear you, Sparkly. 

 

My in-laws aren't mean, but I don't want to visit at Thanksgiving.  They drive us all crazy.  Even my husband doesn't want to go, but he feels he has to.   I think he should take the kids and I should stay home with the dog.  It's not as huge a trip as yours, but it's a 1500-mile round trip drive to a musty house where all I do is eat and do dishes and sit around listening to people gossip. 

 

So, yeah, you get a pass from me.

[BooksandBoys]

I hear you. I lose this identical argument with my DH.

[Tap]

I refused to go to my mils for years and years. If she came to visit, I made sure to be gone. She kinda apologized a few years back and we can tolerate each other now. I still only plan an hour or so in her presence but at least I can handle that now. :0) progress!

 

It was much better all the way around when we didn't have to prent end to be nice. :0)

[mommaduck]

:grouphug:

[Katy]

Don't go.  You don't have to put up with abuse.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Thing is he never says stuff like, "I miss her and want to see her."  If he said that, I'd zip it and never let on it bothered me.  He clearly only feels obligated.  He says stuff like, "You can't pick your family."  Ok so let me get this straight, you aren't thrilled either, yet you go?  Why?! 

 

 

[reign]

I don't think you or the children should go if she is mean to you! I'm not huge on maintaining relationships though. I know it's a big deal for others. I don't think you should feel bad about it. She is the one being mean. I hope you both figure out something that works for your family.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Don't go.  You don't have to put up with abuse.

 

I agree.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't think you or the children should go if she is mean to you! I'm not huge on maintaining relationships though. I know it's a big deal for others. I don't think you should feel bad about it. She is the one being mean. I hope you both figure out something that works for your family.

 

I only feel bad for my husband.  That's really the only "problem" I have.

[prairiewindmomma]

Our compromise (where neither of us were excited about seeing the inlaws)? We went on a vacation we wanted to go on, and on our way home passed through where the inlaws lived and had supper with them. We came, we ate, we did photos....and we spent the bulk of our vacation doing something we wanted.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Our compromise (where neither of us were excited about seeing the inlaws)? We went on a vacation we wanted to go on, and on our way home passed through where the inlaws lived and had supper with them. We came, we ate, we did photos....and we spent the bulk of our vacation doing something we wanted.

 

Yeah she lives in another country so that's not even possible.  We couldn't afford to do that.

[maize]

Do the kids want to go?

 

If neither you nor the kids want to go, I really don't think you should. That's a lot of money to spend to meet up with a bully.

 

If this is important to your dh, he should be able to choose to go himself but not pressure you to go. You chose to marry him, not to have a relationship with his mother.

 

I'm sorry things are not more positive in that direction.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Do the kids want to go?

 

If neither you nor the kids want to go, I really don't think you should. That's a lot of money to spend to meet up with a bully.

 

If this is important to your dh, he should be able to choose to go himself but not pressure you to go. You chose to marry him, not to have a relationship with his mother.

 

I'm sorry things are not more positive in that direction.

 

They are interested in the idea of going.  They do not remember her. 

 

Yeah maybe he should just go.  Of course that'll start the war of the century with her tearing me down.  But whatever.  She does it anyway.  She's a narcissistic mean person. 

[Tammyla]

Can you pay her way to visit you?  It would be less costly in more ways than one. :grouphug:

[Katy]

This is the thing.  You teach people how to treat you.  If you do go without addressing anything, you're not just allowing her to abuse you.  You're also teaching your kids that it's okay to let people treat you that way.

 

The only thing you can control here is your exposure.  If you refuse to go and explain why, she might apologize and change and things might get genuinely better.   She might get into a narcissistic spiral and blame YOU for everything and make things even worse.  You won't know unless you either avoid her or directly confront the issue.

 

If DH wants to go and be abused out of respect, I'd let him.  He's an adult & it's his choice.  But personally I'd take the kids to the beach for a weekend instead, even if it meant we had to stay at a campground to afford it. 

 

Personally I wouldn't confront her at all, I'd just stay home and let DH tell her (or not).  But then my MIL pulls similar crap and I don't put up with it and as a result she's afraid of me.  She's been known to send me gifts on my birthday and forget DH's entirely.

[Seasider]

Yeah she lives in another country so that's not even possible. We couldn't afford to do that.

Wow, that's major travel expense. I'd be tempted to make a list of all the optional ways to spend that amount of money, and see if any of the things on the list interest your husband more than a guilt induced trip.

 

Could he just go by himself? Surely he also can't abide the gramma being hurtful to his kids? Who pays thousands of $$ for that?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Can you pay her way to visit you?  It would be less costly in more ways than one. :grouphug:

 

Yeah you'd think except she won't do that.  Why?  Nobody can please her highness.  Last time she was here she locked herself in our bedroom for days and would not come out because DH told her to stop rearranging our closets and furniture. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Is the location close enough together that you could do a couple of nights with her, and then take a train or RyanAir flight to where you want to go? 

 

IOW, if I had to hang out in Vienna with cranky MIL (not where she lives), I'd spend a day or two there and then I'd be off to Buda Pest, Rome, or taking the overnight to Paris. If you have different fly in/fly out cities, it's workable.

 

And, if MIL is overseas, I'd be spacing out those visits for "financial" reasons. My ex-pat friends here only go home every few years on average.  They stay a month, but only a few days with family on the bookend of the visits. The rest of the time they are traveling.

[Katy]

I know I've recommended this book a million times, but please read it before you buy tickets.  It's the most life-changing book I've ever read, and I think that might include the Bible.   http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440697843&sr=8-1&keywords=Boundaries

[SparklyUnicorn]

This is the thing.  You teach people how to treat you.  If you do go without addressing anything, you're not just allowing her to abuse you.  You're also teaching your kids that it's okay to let people treat you that way.

 

The only thing you can control here is your exposure.  If you refuse to go and explain why, she might apologize and change and things might get genuinely better.   She might get into a narcissistic spiral and blame YOU for everything and make things even worse.  You won't know unless you either avoid her or directly confront the issue.

 

If DH wants to go and be abused out of respect, I'd let him.  He's an adult & it's his choice.  But personally I'd take the kids to the beach for a weekend instead, even if it meant we had to stay at a campground to afford it. 

 

Personally I wouldn't confront her at all, I'd just stay home and let DH tell her (or not).  But then my MIL pulls similar crap and I don't put up with it and as a result she's afraid of me.  She's been known to send me gifts on my birthday and forget DH's entirely.

 

Yeah one of the biggest issues on top of this, is I can't even defend myself because we don't speak the same language (literally and figuratively).  If he dares to speak up to her, she will only go out of her way to make it the worst time ever.  She has done it before.

I mean clearly I know what the answer is.  I just feel terrible. 

[Katy]

:grouphug:   Read the book I recommended.  It will make you feel morally righteous about saying no.

[Liz CA]

Thing is he never says stuff like, "I miss her and want to see her."  If he said that, I'd zip it and never let on it bothered me.  He clearly only feels obligated.  He says stuff like, "You can't pick your family."  Ok so let me get this straight, you aren't thrilled either, yet you go?  Why?! 

 

I get the "obligation" part but how does he react when he is there? Upthread you mention she tears down the kids. Will he not step in to prevent it?

Can you plan a nice European sightseeing trip around the "visiting" thing - without mil? All in the name of education, you know?

[mommaduck]

Cultural differences and unhappiness that you aren't her ethnicity at play here? (just curious)

 

ETA: I just now saw the language barrier. Ugh, that makes things so difficult when no one is on the same page and there are bad feelings.

[Katy]

Wait a minute...  I just realized something...  if she doesn't speak English, how do you know she's mean?  Does your DH interpret her comments to you?

 

 

[Tammyla]

You know, I have a mmil and have had to deal with this issue for years.  Try discussing this with your dh and encourage him to talk to other men on his desire to meet his duty to his mom.  It might help to get neutral input for him and open his eyes a bit on how to love and honor his mom, but also his wife and kids.  Everything doesn't have to be 100% her way.

 

(Get a big old lock for your bedroom; she sounds just lovely. :smash: )  

Yeah you'd think except she won't do that.  Why?  Nobody can please her highness.  Last time she was here she locked herself in our bedroom for days and would not come out because DH told her to stop rearranging our closets and furniture. 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Cultural differences and unhappiness that you aren't her ethnicity at play here? (just curious)

 

Nope.  Not at all. 

 

I told my  husband I'm tired of her criticism.  You know what he said?  Oh well she barely knows you so you can just ignore her.  WTF?!  Like what, I don't have feelings?  This shouldn't bother me?  I don't have a right to complain about this?!  I have to be the bigger person always? 

 

That's not fair...

[amsunshine]

You could pay her way to bring her to you, but also get her a hotel room, maybe?  It would still be cheaper than all of you going to her.  That way, when she acts up, you can take her back to her hotel, or call uber.   :laugh:

[amsunshine]

I also like the European vacation idea, though.  Plan one day to spend with her.  Just one.  Haha. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Wait a minute...  I just realized something...  if she doesn't speak English, how do you know she's mean?  Does your DH interpret her comments to you?

 

In part yes he tells me although I told him not to so he stopped telling me what she says about me in particular (but not about what she says regarding other people).  She will just sit there and be mean and make him tell me what she said, or I understand enough to know what she said. 

 

I dunno.  For years I just bit my tongue.  When we used to go there my FIL would at least tell her to knock it off when it got very bad. But he is no longer alive.  So it's just her.  I don't know if I can take it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I also like the European vacation idea, though.  Plan one day to spend with her.  Just one.  Haha. 

 

It's just out of the question cost wise. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

You could pay her way to bring her to you, but also get her a hotel room, maybe?  It would still be cheaper than all of you going to her.  That way, when she acts up, you can take her back to her hotel, or call uber.   :laugh:

 

She won't come here.

[mommaduck]

Nope.  Not at all. 

 

I told my  husband I'm tired of her criticism.  You know what he said?  Oh well she barely knows you so you can just ignore her.  WTF?!  Like what, I don't have feelings?  This shouldn't bother me?  I don't have a right to complain about this?!  I have to be the bigger person always? 

 

That's not fair...

 

This is typical man-speak for "make things easy for me so I don't have to be in the middle and actually deal with the problem". They also don't get that not everyone can just "tune out". He's probably spent his life tuning her out and disconnecting her craziness from his feelings. You are right in that you shouldn't have to. It does bother you and you shouldn't have to put up with it. ugh. I feel for you. 

[Liz CA]

Another thought: Does your dh have siblings with whom you could stay? Then you can visit her with time limits. Do your kids understand German? Are they able to truly understand the nuances of the language? I am just wondering if they are really affected by her meanness or if you still could turn this into a "fun European vacation" for them even though you and your dh know there will be some major maneuvering to steer clear of the worst.

[regentrude]

It's just out of the question cost wise. 

 

I'm not sure I understand this. You would have the money for the airfare, right? Otherwise you obviously could not go see MIL anyway, and the discussion would be mote.

That's the biggest expense. Once you made it across the Atlantic, you can do Europe pretty cheap.

 

I would have suggested exactly what pp did. Have a fun time in Germany, and stop by MIL for coffee one afternoon.

[BigMamaBird]

Could you frame it as "If the kids and I stay home, we'll save hundreds of dollars and not have to take time off of school."

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm not sure I understand this. You would have the money for the airfare, right? Otherwise you obviously could not go see MIL anyway, and the discussion would be mote.

That's the biggest expense. Once you made it across the Atlantic, you can do Europe pretty cheap.

 

I would have suggested exactly what pp did. Have a fun time in Germany, and stop by MIL for coffee one afternoon.

 

We have to borrow the money for that already.  It is the biggest expensive, but it is certainly not the only expense. 

[amsunshine]

She won't come here.

 

 

Bummer.

 

This is a really difficult situation.  I'm so sorry.  I had a difficult mother like this and after a while we just stopped going out to her. (She has since passed away).  We started offering to host her at our home and if she refused we had to just shrug it off.  It's not easy, but setting boundaries with family never is.  Sounds like your dh needs to be on board, too --  if he's not, that's what makes it really hard.  It was my mom, and I was the one who had to make the decision to set the boundaries -- my dh agreed with me, but it was my mom who was making us all miserable.  Therapy sessions helped us hash this all out, if that's an option for you and your dh.

 

Big hugs.   :grouphug:

[Katy]

In part yes he tells me although I told him not to so he stopped telling me what she says about me in particular (but not about what she says regarding other people).  She will just sit there and be mean and make him tell me what she said, or I understand enough to know what she said. 

 

I dunno.  For years I just bit my tongue.  When we used to go there my FIL would at least tell her to knock it off when it got very bad. But he is no longer alive.  So it's just her.  I don't know if I can take it.

 

Wow.  Honestly I would be more upset that DH didn't draw boundaries and tell her to stop abusing me than I would that she was abusive.

 

I'm so sorry.

 

Letting someone, even his mother, abuse me and his family would be pretty close to a deal-breaker for me.

[regentrude]

We have to borrow the money for that already.  It is the biggest expensive, but it is certainly not the only expense. 

 

Well, if that is the case I'd tell my DH in no uncertain terms that I do not plan to BORROW money to go see a mean MIL.

"Honey, you know we can't really afford it and she does not like me anyway. You go and say hi from us". End of discussion.

 

he needs to understand that going into debt to visit a woman who does not like you is crazy.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Another thought: Does your dh have siblings with whom you could stay? Then you can visit her with time limits. Do your kids understand German? Are they able to truly understand the nuances of the language? I am just wondering if they are really affected by her meanness or if you still could turn this into a "fun European vacation" for them even though you and your dh know there will be some major maneuvering to steer clear of the worst.

 

 

He has a brother who lives alone in a one bedroom apartment. 

 

They don't understand German. 

 

If we go there it would be expected we'd go there to see her.  And really we can't afford 2 weeks of accommodations elsewhere. 

 

I know the answer to this problem.  I guess I'm going to have to get over the fact it's not going to be a comfortable reaction.

[MysteryJen]

I am sorry about all of this. But I think you can say, with absolute truth, "we can't afford to go." Money wise, emotional health wise, it doesn't matter.

 

We can't afford to go. If she wants to see you, she can make suggestions of how to make that work. Maybe she just wants to see your husband. Maybe she doesn't care at all. But the ball is in her court.

 

Do not spend money you don't have or time you can't get back. You can't afford it.

[idnib]

Yeah she lives in another country so that's not even possible.  We couldn't afford to do that.

 

Geez those lost passports are a pain to replace at the last minute.  :sneaky2:

 

Last time she was here she locked herself in our bedroom for days and would not come out because DH told her to stop rearranging our closets and furniture. 

 

See if you guys can make something like that happen again, but in her own room.

 

OK, I'm done being snarky. I agree with the "can't afford to go" phrasing. It covers all the reasons you can't afford to go, not just the money.

[MSNative]

Don't go. I flat out told my dh that I wasn't going to put up with the behavior of my in laws. Now I see them once every 4 or 5 years at the holidays and never more than a couple of days. Totally worth the uncomfortable discussion with dh to get to this result.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Geez those lost passports are a pain to replace at the last minute.  :sneaky2:

 

 

See if you guys can make something like that happen again, but in her own room.

 

OK, I'm done being snarky. I agree with the "can't afford to go" phrasing. It covers all the reasons you can't afford to go, not just the money.

 

Oh yeah and that reminds me, on top of this that's another expense.  Two new passports. 

 

*sigh*

 

She gave us some money, but it does not put a dent into the cost of this.  I don't mind borrowing the money, but not for something I won't enjoy!! 

[Professormom]

Yeah you'd think except she won't do that. Why? Nobody can please her highness. Last time she was here she locked herself in our bedroom for days and would not come out because DH told her to stop rearranging our closets and furniture.

Oh jeez. Wow... Just :grouphug:

 

I don't know that I have advice but I would be hard pressed to spend my vacation and tons of moolah on that kind of experience. You definitely are not being unreasonable here.