S/O of Be Prepared: How did you know you needed to end your marriage?

[BooksandBoys]

I would really like to hear from those who decided to pursue divorce, whether mutually with your spouse, or independently, essentially, I guess, blindsiding him or her. I would appreciate the perspective as I contemplate the challenges in own marriage.

 

I read the board rules carefully, so I think this topic is permitted, but if I'm wrong, I'll be happy to delete it.

[Anne in CA]

I have not been divorced, but most of the people I know who have had an epiphany that they were not going to change, their spouse was not going to change, and that there was life left to be lived. 

 

I had such an epiphany, but we went to extremely good (and expensive) counseling and we both made changes. In my case there might never be another person as understanding of my unusual way of looking at life, so I was very motivated to overlook things other people might not. DH was already divorced and was motivated to avoid another divorce.

 

But I believe that once you have the epiphany if real change does not happen divorce is inevitable. As long as the idea of change is more painful than living with someone you have real problems with you are not ready for divorce. 

[lllll]

tmi

[HSmomof2]

I have not been divorced, but most of the people I know who have had an epiphany that they were not going to change, their spouse was not going to change, and that there was life left to be lived.

 

I had such an epiphany, but we went to extremely good (and expensive) counseling and we both made changes. In my case there might never be another person as understanding of my unusual way of looking at life, so I was very motivated to overlook things other people might not. DH was already divorced and was motivated to avoid another divorce.

 

But I believe that once you have the epiphany if real change does not happen divorce is inevitable. As long as the idea of change is more painful than living with someone you have real problems with you are not ready for divorce.

ITA^^^

We have a similar story of heading toward divorce (14 years ago) but went to counseling instead and were able to reconcile. We didn't have abuse, addictions, repeated infidelity, etc. Any of those would have ended in divorce, most likely.

[Little Nyssa]

Now this is not my own story, but I thought it was interesting, and I've heard similar from other people, so I think I'll share it.

 

A friend of mine, a young man, was in a terrible marriage.

[We thought that she had married him for the green card, but he was trying to make it work. But she treated him badly, was out all the time without him, and even would hit him.]

One time a college friend came to visit him/them. He had such a good time with the friend, he realized that he had not been that happy for a long time. He said it was nothing special, not his best friend. Just an ordinary human interaction. He realized that it was so different from his interactions with his wife. Just this experience of having a normal, friendly relationship with a friend, let him realize that his wife did not care a thing about him. He was never going to have this with her.

This is what led him to realize that there was no hope for the relationship and he did file for divorce.

 

ETA: I forgot to add: ((hugs)) to you.

[Night Elf]

I was miserable. He was okay with being unsettled and unhappy. I finally talked him into going to marriage counseling. After the first session, he said it was stupid and cost too much. I asked him which he wanted, counseling or divorce. He said he wanted neither and that I needed to find a way to make myself happy. So I separated and filed for divorce. I have no idea how we lasted as long as we did. We were so very different. I knew then that we'd never reconcile and I was okay with that. I didn't even regret the separation. That's how I knew I had done the right thing. And all these years later, I'm still surprised at myself that I stuck it out as long as I did. I had no business being married to him even though he was a good man and a good father.

[Rubix]

When my soon to be ex made it clear that nothing I would ever do would be good enough. After being constantly brought down over things like not working enough, while being called names, etc, I decided if I am not good enough as me, I am not interested. And lies. I don't do liars.

[Rosie_0801]

I was developing character flaws I'd never had before. I was not put on this earth to become a worse person than I started off as.

[elegantlion]

Hm, how to say this while still maintaining some privacy...He made choices that showed me he placed less priority on his family and our marriage than he did his own well-being. This was not a one time occurrence, but something that established a pattern of behavior. He lied about inconsequential and important issues along the way. I still think he lied to himself as well, so it wasn't just a huge divide where he lied solely to me. 

 

I still care about him as the father of my only child. However, the day to day conflict in my life is gone and I feel peaceful about things that used to cause me great stress. 

 

I did not plan on divorcing. We were both content to live at our less than best. One incident showed me he was not willing to make any sacrifices to maintain our house as a home and work through the challenges we were having. I am the one that filed for divorce and I have no regrets. We were married over 20 years. 

[Wheres Toto]

Looking back things were not good fairly early on but it took a while before they got really bad.  Lots of name calling, put downs, emotional abuse.  I started feeling like life was over despite being in my early 30's.  I realized I was getting nothing from him except some help with the bills (and that came grudgingly) and that I really would be better off without him.  I didn't really do anything about it until I realized it was a very unhealthy situation for dd.

 

He would say he was blindsided but every time I tried to talk to him about it he would get defensive and tell me to stop being such a b*****.

 

ETA:  We did go to counseling and he paid lip-service to changing but it was all surface.  He didn't understand what the problem was so he was just doing A, B, and C because he thought I wanted A, B, and C.  No, I wanted him to understand that calling me a b***** was a problem.     He would only be able to do it for a week or so before going to old patterns again.

[Scarlett]

When I discovered he was having an affair with a 24 year old married girl. He was 45. Even after he was confronted and forced to move out he kept seeing her. And he kept lying. My PI and my own snooping skills gave me the clarity to see I was married to a liar of huge proportions. Liars are the worst. There is no future with a liar.

[BooksandBoys]

I appreciate your answers. We have had very challenging periods in our nearly ten year marriage that we were able to weather with therapy. Unfortunately, the last four years have been more bad than good, and the last two years have been almost entirely bad.

 

I've now written and erased five different explanations to justify the above. Suffice to say that this isn't about falling out of love. It's about going through horrible, horrific situations and realizing that no matter how often I ask for help, I end up going through them on my own. He can't, or won't, be there for me. And it's about years and years of walking on eggshells to keep him from anger. And years and years of being told I'm the problem...and, ultimately, believing him and walking on more eggshells. I'm in therapy again. We might do therapy together, but, honestly, I'm not hopeful. This is a painful mess.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I appreciate your answers. We have had very challenging periods in our nearly ten year marriage that we were able to weather with therapy. Unfortunately, the last four years have been more bad than good, and the last two years have been almost entirely bad.

 

I've now written and erased five different explanations to justify the above. Suffice to say that this isn't about falling out of love. It's about going through horrible, horrific situations and realizing that no matter how often I ask for help, I end up going through them on my own. He can't, or won't, be there for me. And it's about years and years of walking on eggshells to keep him from anger. And years and years of being told I'm the problem...and, ultimately, believing him and walking on more eggshells. I'm in therapy again. We might do therapy together, but, honestly, I'm not hopeful. This is a painful mess.

Hugs.

[elegantlion]

I appreciate your answers. We have had very challenging periods in our nearly ten year marriage that we were able to weather with therapy. Unfortunately, the last four years have been more bad than good, and the last two years have been almost entirely bad.

 

I've now written and erased five different explanations to justify the above. Suffice to say that this isn't about falling out of love. It's about going through horrible, horrific situations and realizing that no matter how often I ask for help, I end up going through them on my own. He can't, or won't, be there for me. And it's about years and years of walking on eggshells to keep him from anger. And years and years of being told I'm the problem...and, ultimately, believing him and walking on more eggshells. I'm in therapy again. We might do therapy together, but, honestly, I'm not hopeful. This is a painful mess.

 

:grouphug:

 

I get the eggshell thing. I did that for years. 

[ktgrok]

My ex was just not emotionally healthy enough to be a partner in marraige. This was a gradual back and forth thing culminating in me working full time plus an hour commute each way, and mecoming home to find that my 4 yr old had been left in front of the TV all day, every day, and had eaten nothing but potato chips all day, because "Daddy has a headache again". I just felt so bad for my son, who would approach his dad to play and be told to go away and be quiet. It was harming my son. It was NOT teaching my son how to be a man, how to be a father, and it wasn't healthy.It was neglect. 

 

When I felt some depression (gee, wonder why!) my ex said, "well, now you know how it feels" and that was it. 

 

We did marriage counseling and individual counseling for YEARS, and it never got better. Finally, he said, "I'm not going to change."

 

Well,i took him at his word that time. And I left. When someone tells you who they are, believe them. He'd also told me in the past that he'd never loved me as much as his ex girlfriend. Lied and said he was taking classes when he'd dropped out, etc. 

 

When I left I moved in with my parents, which was excellent for my son. The early days were hard, but soon he was SO MUCH BETTEr than before, and so was I. He had the stability and caring he'd been lacking. I no longer had an hour commute (it was more like 5 mintues). He blossomed. I wish, looking back, I'd done it sooner. 

 

I also later met my now husband, who is a wonderful man and father. Getting divorced was hard, really hard and scary, but the best thing I ever did for myself, for my son, and honestly, for my ex. He's better off not having the daily responsibility of a family. And he's a better dad when he only has to do it for the weekend. 

[ktgrok]

I was developing character flaws I'd never had before. I was not put on this earth to become a worse person than I started off as.

 

Very true in my case as well. I'd become a not nice person a lot of the time. The change afterwards was dramatic. 

[ktgrok]

I appreciate your answers. We have had very challenging periods in our nearly ten year marriage that we were able to weather with therapy. Unfortunately, the last four years have been more bad than good, and the last two years have been almost entirely bad.

 

I've now written and erased five different explanations to justify the above. Suffice to say that this isn't about falling out of love. It's about going through horrible, horrific situations and realizing that no matter how often I ask for help, I end up going through them on my own. He can't, or won't, be there for me. And it's about years and years of walking on eggshells to keep him from anger. And years and years of being told I'm the problem...and, ultimately, believing him and walking on more eggshells. I'm in therapy again. We might do therapy together, but, honestly, I'm not hopeful. This is a painful mess.

 

Sounds like gaslighting. Not healthy, and he probably doesn't limit it to just you. Take a hard look about what your children are growing up seeing. For me, I didn't want to get divorced, I didn't even believe in divorce. But I couldn't let my son grow up thinking my marriage was the norm, or healthy, or good. 

[Minerva]

Ugh. The dreaded eggshells. So sorry you are going through this. 

 

In my case there was no final straw, only years and years of trying to fix things and getting nowhere. I finally ended it when I got brave enough to leave. That was it. I had to believe in myself and my right to happy life. I wont lie, it was painful, but my life is so much better now I can hardly believe I am the same person. 

 

((Hugs))

 

 

[SemiSweet]

He was a compulsive liar and he was really good at it. When I finally pulled my head out, I realized everything in our lives was a lie, he stole money from our family finances to buy drugs. We have two kids together, but I never looked from the day I left. We are all better off. He would tell you that it was completely unexpected, but I warned him. He went on to become a felon, so I definitely made he right decision.

 

I am sorry you're going through this, it's not easy, but most people I know who've had to do it don't regret it once they get resettled.

[ktgrok]

Ugh. The dreaded eggshells. So sorry you are going through this. 

 

In my case there was no final straw, only years and years of trying to fix things and getting nowhere. I finally ended it when I got brave enough to leave. That was it. I had to believe in myself and my right to happy life. I wont lie, it was painful, but my life is so much better now I can hardly believe I am the same person. 

 

((Hugs))

 

Yes, it really did take bravery. I thought i could never leave. My therapist finally, after hearing me say that a zillion times said, "fine, you aren't going to leave. But if you did, just pretend, what would that look like?" Having it be so hypothetical let me work out what I would do after leaving, it gave me the space to do that. 

[OnTheBrink]

When I found evidence of his gay speed dating, meeting men from Craigslist at Motel 6, and his emotional, financial and physical abuse (more emotional and financial than physical). After finding emails and evidence of at least 11 different men, I threw him out. I went through 7 years of counseling with this person, only to have the same cycles repeating with no real repentance or remorse on his part. I. Was. Done.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I actually started to believe that I was a "stupid, worthless, pathetic, b****."(What he called me when he was feeling bad about himself, so daily). I had stopped fighting and was pulling into myself.  I had gotten to the point that I knew I had to leave or I'd become nothing.  It took me years to recover and stop blaming myself.

 

I think he was well warned, I had tried to leave on several different occasions but I was young and didn't know how to express my wants and I had no one on my side.  He thinks he was "blindsided" and had everyone we knew convinced I was a lot of names that don't bear repeating. I was the bad guy but I didn't care at that point. ANYTHING was better then being there. 

 

I've since remarried and my DH says the #1 reason he married/chose me was because of how intelligent I am.  It is also obvious to me how much he values me and my contribution to our family. I couldn't be happier. 

[BooksandBoys]

I was developing character flaws I'd never had before. I was not put on this earth to become a worse person than I started off as.

This really resonates with me. While there are many problems with our marriage, this issue, the character flaws I am developing, is possibly the one that concerns me the most.

[cintinative]

I don't have experience with this but can recommend a good book to help evaluate if you should separate/set boundaries/etc. I read through it as I was supporting a friend. I found it helpful that it does not start with the assumption that all marriages can be salvaged. Also it makes a distinction between marriages that are emotionally destructive and one that is just disappointing and perhaps a bit stale.  (my wording, I can't remember hers)

 

The Emotionally Destructive Marriage by Leslie Vernick

 

There is a quiz here to determine if you are in an emotionally destructive relationship. I actually found the first book, The Emotionally Destructive Relationship, helpful as I consider some patterns with my mom. Anyway, it sounds silly  but this quiz is VERY helpful. I encourage you to check it out. It will give you an idea of what is addressed in the book as well.

 

http://www.familylife.com/articles/topics/marriage/staying-married/resolving-conflict/emotionally-destructive-relationship-questionnaire

 

[swellmomma]

In my case, my marriage was never good, too many things stacked against us from the start, but we were determined to make it work for the kids.  Until the night he hit and raped me.  I spent the next 2 weeks getting my ducks in a row, and then threw him out.  4 weeks later I was in my new apartment back in my home town with a new job.  I had arranged all of that over the phone between the time I threw him out and moving day.  He and my bil drove the moving truck and helped me move in to the apartment.  To this day he denies ever doing that, and I am very grateful I got out when I did.  I put up with a lot in our marriage before that point, and I admit I was not a good wife either, but I do not give second chances to that.  I had an abusive boyfriend at 16 and spent years learning to stand up for myself after it ended.  I refused to be a victim ever again.  I had done all I could to try and "fix" things up until that point blindly assuming the kids were better off in a 2 parent family even if it involved an alcoholic dad and parents fighting.  I got my head on straight during those 2 weeks and knew my kids deserved so very much better, and so did I.  

[swellmomma]

Very true in my case as well. I'd become a not nice person a lot of the time. The change afterwards was dramatic. 

 

 

I was developing character flaws I'd never had before. I was not put on this earth to become a worse person than I started off as.

THis happened with me too.  I really became someone I'm not. I deeply regret who I became during our short marriage, and wish we had never gotten married in the first place (we already had problems, but got married for the kids sake, it was during the 8 months of our actual marriage that learned more and more of the crap he had done, and things escalated and I made choices I never would have made otherwise)

[Minli]

I'm interested too so if anyone has more stories...

[bettyandbob]

I hope I'm not mixing up posts.

 

I think you posted about having a challenging child a few days ago. Does your child ave a diagnosis? Is there a support group? Does your spouse accept the diagnosis?

 

Having a child with a disability, expspecially a hidden disability can put a huge strain on a marriage.

 

You mentioned being alone/unsupported. Is that related to care for dc?

 

I have two dc with disabilities. We've gone through some really rough stuff due to intense patenting issues.

[Lecka]

This is just a follow-on to the last post, but I got a lot out of this book http://www.amazon.com/Not-My-Boy-Familys-Journey/dp/140016530XNot My Boy by Rodney Peete. It is about a man whose son is diagnosed with autism.

 

The upshot is: "After a period of anger and denial, an all-too-common reaction among fathers, Rodney joined his wife, Holly, in her efforts to help their son."

 

It was great for me to see what his thought process was, and how it took time for him.

 

But -- he also made a decision to be a partner with his wife.

[ktgrok]

There were a few things. The big "reason" as it were, was that this was not how I wanted my son to grow up. I didn't want him to think that my ex's behavior (in bed most of the day, then staying up watching tv all night, never spending time with him, etc) was normal. I didn't want him to think that was how a man behaved. And he was being neglected, pure and simple. I'd work 12 hours and come home to find my 4 year old son had eaten nothing but potato chips all day because "he didn't tell me he was hungry." There are only so many times a kid can be told to leave daddy alone because he's tired/has a headache/etc and not be damaged. 

 

Of course, my first hope was that my ex would change. I wanted the marraige to work. I was against divorce. But after 2 years of therapy my therapist said "Katie, it has been 2 years and you are still having exactly the same issues. Nothing has changed." My ex later, in a session, said "I don't see things changing much in the future." I finally got that he wasn't trying to change. He was okay with the status quo. He also told me he didn't want more kids because they would take more attention away from him. I desperately wanted more children...if I couldn't have a good marriage I at least wanted children. 

 

But even then I couldn't see how divorce could work. I couldn't imagine it. I couldn't imagine breaking up our family. Finally one day my therapist said, "well, hypotheticallly....if you DID leave, what would that look like?" She gave me a safe space to think out loud. I wasn't saying I WOULD leave, but hey, just pretend for a bit, and come up with what it would look like. I realized I DID have options in that session, and I did leave. We'd been unhappy together for years, so it wasn't a total shock. I moved in with my parents and it was the hardest thing I ever did. The first night my son cried for his father and I thought my heart would physically break in half. I hated that I did that to him. But that was the only night he cried, and after a week or two he was a different kid. He had my attention, my parents' attention, he had structure and love and he thrived. A month later I told some one that if I hadn't realized how much my bad marraige was hurting my son until I saw how much he changed when I left. It was absolutely the right thing to do. Hard, but right. 

 

And 6 months later I ended up meeting my true love, the man that was everything my ex wasn't. We got married 2 years later and had two more children. I did NOT expect to remarry, or to meet someone so soon, but God has his own timing. 

[arnold]

There were a few things. The big "reason" as it were, was that this was not how I wanted my son to grow up. I didn't want him to think that my ex's behavior (in bed most of the day, then staying up watching tv all night, never spending time with him, etc) was normal. I didn't want him to think that was how a man behaved. And he was being neglected, pure and simple. I'd work 12 hours and come home to find my 4 year old son had eaten nothing but potato chips all day because "he didn't tell me he was hungry." There are only so many times a kid can be told to leave daddy alone because he's tired/has a headache/etc and not be damaged.

 

Of course, my first hope was that my ex would change. I wanted the marraige to work. I was against divorce. But after 2 years of therapy my therapist said "Katie, it has been 2 years and you are still having exactly the same issues. Nothing has changed." My ex later, in a session, said "I don't see things changing much in the future." I finally got that he wasn't trying to change. He was okay with the status quo. He also told me he didn't want more kids because they would take more attention away from him. I desperately wanted more children...if I couldn't have a good marriage I at least wanted children.

 

But even then I couldn't see how divorce could work. I couldn't imagine it. I couldn't imagine breaking up our family. Finally one day my therapist said, "well, hypotheticallly....if you DID leave, what would that look like?" She gave me a safe space to think out loud. I wasn't saying I WOULD leave, but hey, just pretend for a bit, and come up with what it would look like. I realized I DID have options in that session, and I did leave. We'd been unhappy together for years, so it wasn't a total shock. I moved in with my parents and it was the hardest thing I ever did. The first night my son cried for his father and I thought my heart would physically break in half. I hated that I did that to him. But that was the only night he cried, and after a week or two he was a different kid. He had my attention, my parents' attention, he had structure and love and he thrived. A month later I told some one that if I hadn't realized how much my bad marraige was hurting my son until I saw how much he changed when I left. It was absolutely the right thing to do. Hard, but right.

 

And 6 months later I ended up meeting my true love, the man that was everything my ex wasn't. We got married 2 years later and had two more children. I did NOT expect to remarry, or to meet someone so soon, but God has his own timing.

How were you able to come to terms with the fact your son would have to spend time with your neglectful ex after the divorce, without any input or supervision on your part?

[bettyandbob]

I noticed you've posted a lot in different threads recently. It sounds like your dh has untreated/possibly unwilling to change problems. Couple that with a child who us having challenges and there could be serious compounding. Add on that we've just come through a major holiday season. No simple problems go well during the holidays. I think I said that the parents in my house are now in agreement that some of the family will take a mini vacation over Christmas Day next year to avoid holiday fall out. My kids are teens, it's taken years for one parent to see this has to happen, not doing so is destroying our relationship with one of our dc.

 

It sounds like both of you and your dc could benefit from individual counseling. If dh can't move forward on his challenges and face the issues with the kids, you may need to go through the process described by Katie and figure out what's healthier for the dc and you. Your conclusion might still be yo stay, but you need to analyze it in a safe environment.

 

{{hugs}}

[ktgrok]

How were you able to come to terms with the fact your son would have to spend time with your neglectful ex after the divorce, without any input or supervision on your part?

 

Honestly, my ex is a MUCH better part time dad than he was a full time dad. MUCH. He can hold it together and find the energy to show some attention for a day or two. He couldn't for days on end. Plus, he knows I am not there to take over and rescue him, so he kind of has to. Now, yes, my son had 3 day weekends where he never showered, and ate hotdogs and junk food more than he should. But I overlooked that (did remind him about showering, but didn't make a big deal about it) because overall their relationship is better than before. 

 

It also helped that for a while my ex moved back in with his parents, so I knew they would make sure my son ate at least. 

[ktgrok]

I was developing character flaws I'd never had before. I was not put on this earth to become a worse person than I started off as.

 

yes, this happened to me as well. I'm a naturally happy person, and I started becoming a B*tch. Everyone noticed it, and eventually I realized it too. A few months after I left I was back to being me. As my mother said, I was still taking care of two people after I divorced, but the difference was that now one of them was myself. 

[Night Elf]

Just an FYI, this thread started in July last year. Things may have changed for the OP by now.

[Joanne]

I appreciate your answers. We have had very challenging periods in our nearly ten year marriage that we were able to weather with therapy. Unfortunately, the last four years have been more bad than good, and the last two years have been almost entirely bad.

 

I've now written and erased five different explanations to justify the above. Suffice to say that this isn't about falling out of love. It's about going through horrible, horrific situations and realizing that no matter how often I ask for help, I end up going through them on my own. He can't, or won't, be there for me. And it's about years and years of walking on eggshells to keep him from anger. And years and years of being told I'm the problem...and, ultimately, believing him and walking on more eggshells. I'm in therapy again. We might do therapy together, but, honestly, I'm not hopeful. This is a painful mess.

 

For nearly 25 years (it was 15 at the time), I belonged to a group in which "cleaning up your side of the street" behaviorally was part of the supported suggestions for healthy, spiritual living.

 

I had (just) enough boundaries to know I couldn't change *him*, so I went to therapy to change me. This was already after years of trying to "act as if" so that the feelings and patterns of a happy marriage would emerge. After trying - very passionately - to use ideas such as "The Power of a Praying Wife."

 

So, I went to therapy and discovered I was profoundly depressed and suffering from PTSD after years of emotional battering and hypervigilence (eggshell walking). After the final episode of name calling - where he went to places he had not gone before (I now know it was because he knew he was losing control over me), I said "done."

 

I'm not gonna lie. It was a tremendously hard decade. Crazy hard; almost literally. Absurdly hard. I'm still tired, weary, exhausted. That said, i don't regret the divorce for a second. NOT ONE SECOND. The only regret I have is not ending the marriage sooner. (And hurrying into marriage #2)

 

I didn't really know how that marriage was killing me; killing everything that was me. Disallowing me from BEING me, from blossoming into me. I had begun to believe I was worth the respect he showed me.

 

I am liberated; free. Even operating with multiple jobs, little sleep, and constant stress, I am fundamentally glad to be OUT. I have more freedom and celebration now. My family was MUCH more broken then than it has been since.

 

[Scarlett]

Old thread

Edited January 5, 2016 by Scarlett