luuknam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 There's nothing *wrong* with being in Vanity Fair though, is there? Who are you to criticize her for a totally legal thing that is par for the course with her fame? Is there some reason why 65 year old women (trans or not) owe it to anyone to NOT be on the cover of Vanity Fair in a corset style top? I explained myself already. We can agree to disagree. It is perfectly legal to criticize people for legal choices they make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I explained myself already. We can agree to disagree. It is perfectly legal to criticize people for legal choices they make. I'm still unclear as to why you think this is a problem. If I understand you, you think 65 year olds shouldn't be looking sexy on magazine covers. Ageist much? I think it's rather sexist to expect her behavior to conform to your parameters for appropriate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'm still unclear as to why you think this is a problem. If I understand you, you think 65 year olds shouldn't be looking sexy on magazine covers. Ageist much? I think it's rather sexist to expect her behavior to conform to your parameters for appropriate. I can't even remotely begin to understand why it would be sexist, since it's not like I've spoken approvingly of men doing the same thing. Ageist? Maybe. But only because it's extending the problem from one age group where it's common to more age groups where it's rare. I have a problem with it at any age. I'm sure you can find more people complaining about the airbrushing etc of models and the effects on the self-image of others if you Google for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 PP implied that it's the norm, and that as such, it should be totally okay. I know she hasn't been living the norm. Do we really want heavily photoshopped 65yos in skimpy clothes on magazine covers to become the new norm? Do we really care? I don't buy magazines I'm not interested in. I don't read them either. Who cares what's on the cover? I sure don't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I can't even remotely begin to understand why it would be sexist, since it's not like I've spoken approvingly of men doing the same thing. Ageist? Maybe. But only because it's extending the problem from one age group where it's common to more age groups where it's rare. I have a problem with it at any age. I'm sure you can find more people complaining about the airbrushing etc of models and the effects on the self-image of others if you Google for it. It's sexist because you are saying that you know better than the woman in question what she should do with her body. Also, it's not like airbrushing or the immense talents of Annie Leibowitz are secrets. Anyone concerned about the issue should be more than aware how comically unreal fashion media images are. I was 13 or 14 when I rejected the images in fashion magazines as being a valid or reasonable goal. I trust others can think for themselves and make up their own darn minds. We don't have to buy magazines we don't like or that we think place unrealistic expectations on people about their appearances. We similarly don't get to tell others that they can't or should not be featured in said magazines. Well, we CAN try and tell others but when we do we are full of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think it's funny that we have a celebrity, a former Olympian, as a transgender model on the cover of Vanity Fair and all the discussion revolves around hair, fashion, photoshop, age, etc. Yes it's persnickety, but in some ways it shows we've come a long way. This is probably not the discussion we would have been having 10 years ago. 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think it's funny that we have a celebrity, a former Olympian, as a transgender model on the cover of Vanity Fair and all the discussion revolves around hair, fashion, photoshop, age, etc. Yes it's persnickety, but in some ways it shows we've come a long way. This is probably not the discussion we would have been having 10 years ago, Spot-on! Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 When Jenner was on the Wheaties box it was huge. That might have been my first insight that athletes could be celebrities. It seems fitting to me that Jenner would now pose for a magazine to show us all the new her. The media coverage has been all cover, bad tabloid photos, an interview left people wondering what pronouns to use, etc. This photo creates a strong line of demarcation from all of that. Doing this photo like she did allows her to control the image the public has about her transition. It's a beautiful photo. It's feminine and photoshopping aside, this may be how Jenner has viewing herself for years. Now it all matches. A few years ago in my English class we had to analyze an ad. I chose one from Katie Holmes. She'd been getting bad press from her split with Tom and every photo I'd seen of her lately had been on the cover of a tabloid. This ad was different, the subtle nature of her pose and clothing and carefully chosen wording really told us she was back and ready to be defined by her own terms. It was a powerful photo. The Jenner photo is powerful too. From a publicity standpoint, I think it's genius. Bruce Jenner got the Wheaties box, Caitlyn Jenner gets Vanity Fair. For those of us that only marginally follow celebrity news, this is a clear message of who she is now. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommaOfalotta Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I did not expect that much of a change in his looks. He mentioned on one of the shows that he only had a small facial surgery left.. and I don't know I just thought he would end up looking like Bruce, but with tatas. lol. But holy COW... She looks GORGEOUS. And so classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Ah, and now Caitlyn has been introduced to the wonderful world of sexism: http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/02/caitlyn-jenner-golf-course-sherwood/ How very interesting that this has turned from issues with being transgendered (and all the discrimination THEY suffer under) to that of boring old sexism. Good times, good times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Ah, and now Caitlyn has been introduced to the wonderful world of sexism: http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/02/caitlyn-jenner-golf-course-sherwood/ How very interesting that this has turned from issues with being transgendered (and all the discrimination THEY suffer under) to that of boring old sexism. Good times, good times. Jenner didn't seem to have a problem with the club's discriminatory policies before. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liber Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Ah, and now Caitlyn has been introduced to the wonderful world of sexism: http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/02/caitlyn-jenner-golf-course-sherwood/ How very interesting that this has turned from issues with being transgendered (and all the discrimination THEY suffer under) to that of boring old sexism. Good times, good times. Well there are consequences to our actions. Some that we see and some that we don't. I can't believe she was so naive to believe that she can continue using the facilities as a male. Can't have your cake and eat it too. She may be biologically male but she wants to identify and be treated as a woman. So now she is. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I can't get over a 65 year old's being named "Caitlyn." How many 65 year old Caitlyns (or Caitlins) have you ever come across? Why didn't he choose a more age-appropriate Linda or Barbara or Edna? Regina, maybe??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I can't get over a 65 year old's being named "Caitlyn." How many 65 year old Caitlyns (or Caitlins) have you ever come across? Why didn't he choose a more age-appropriate Linda or Barbara or Edna? Regina, maybe??? You do realize that someday all the young Caitlyns will be 65, right? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liber Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I can't get over a 65 year old's being named "Caitlyn." How many 65 year old Caitlyns (or Caitlins) have you ever come across? Why didn't he choose a more age-appropriate Linda or Barbara or Edna? Regina, maybe??? I don't like her name either. I don't think it suits her. It may not be spelled with a "k" but it still has the "k" sound. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfries Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think Caitlyn is far and away better than "Belinda" which is what the media was originally reporting her name was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 You do realize that someday all the young Caitlyns will be 65, right? Of course; but Bruce Jenner was born in 1949, not 1988 when the rest of the Caitlins were born. Anything on this list would have been a more authentic choice. 'Cause it's so important to have an authentic first name to go with the face and shaved Adam's apple and hair extensions and boob job and voice. . .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Of course; but Bruce Jenner was born in 1949, not 1988 when the rest of the Caitlins were born. Anything on this list would have been a more authentic choice. 'Cause it's so important to have an authentic first name to go with the face and shaved Adam's apple and hair extensions and boob job and voice. . .. If it's the name she prefers and most identifies with—which would presumably be the most important factors to consider if you were choosing a new name—then it's an authentic choice. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Good grief, if you could choose a name, wouldn't you choose something fun and stylish? She's been waiting to live as a woman for so long, just let her enjoy it. I wouldn't pick Edna either. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Jenner didn't seem to have a problem with the club's discriminatory policies before. Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Transgender, the last frontier of social justice. The interwebs are really showing the truth to this statement today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 She looks lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Btw, I've always been a big fan of Caitlyn Jenner, although not enough to make me watch the Kardashians! (Do we still go with "Caitlyn" if we're referring to a time when she was still "Bruce"?) I'm a bit of an Olympics buff. Here's a fun documentary from the 1970s, in case all you remember about Jenner during that time is the Wheaties box: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feezbQ9BJwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 65, eh? Well, at least she had enough sense to transition after menopause. (LOL) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That made me spit out my coffee!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I don't think the previous poster was saying Caitlyn shouldn't have posed like that. I think she was expressing frustration with fashion culture modifying the appearance of people so much that they are unrecognizable in real life. Women then feel like their appearance is being compared to these celebrities. When even the celebrities don't look as good in real life as their photos then there is a problem. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 For example, there was a Dove (?) video on Youtube a few years ago where they took this very plain looking woman. A team of makeup and hair stylists spent a long time on her before her photo shoot. After, they airbrushed her and photoshopped her heavily. They made her neck much longer, made her eyes much larger, and changed where her eyes were on her face. By the time they were done, you'd think she was really a top model, when really, she was average looking at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Free is the word that came to my mind when I first saw this article. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Well there are consequences to our actions. Some that we see and some that we don't. I can't believe she was so naive to believe that she can continue using the facilities as a male. Can't have your cake and eat it too. She may be biologically male but she wants to identify and be treated as a woman. So now she is. Yes but policies like these really hurt women IMHO because they shut women out of valuable networking. Women should be allowed in all areas except the locker room. I know a great women women who ran for a local office and she did not have access to the main key club for networking and for politicians because it is for men only. That rubs me the wrong way truly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I don't think the previous poster was saying Caitlyn shouldn't have posed like that. I think she was expressing frustration with fashion culture modifying the appearance of people so much that they are unrecognizable in real life. Women then feel like their appearance is being compared to these celebrities. When even the celebrities don't look as good in real life as their photos then there is a problem. I agree with this since in our society many women feel their looks are not good enough or that they must do crazy things in order to look beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Yes but policies like these really hurt women IMHO because they shut women out of valuable networking. Women should be allowed in all areas except the locker room. I know a great women women who ran for a local office and she did not have access to the main key club for networking and for politicians because it is for men only. That rubs me the wrong way truly. Yup. The club my parent's belonged to had a men's dining room, but there was also the "mixed" grill for members of both sexes. All of the business deals and networking happened in the men's dining room. The mixed grill was where the widows/bachelors went to meet women, or men who were with their wives. Business was not discussed there. I'm actually glad Caitlyn's country club is going to treat her just like the other women (as horribly as). Perhaps Caitlyn will become a good advocate for the women of the club? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I agree with this since in our society many women feel their looks are not good enough or that they must do crazy things in order to look beautiful. I was at a water park a few summers ago. It was hot and the lines were long, so I people watched. Every single woman over the age of 14-15, no matter how thin, had at least a little cellulite on the back of her thighs - except for one woman, and she was covered in tattoos (not my thing). So obviously the ideal of no cellulite must be unreachable, and yet we continue to be embarrased about our own, as well as complain that it's not fair that even obese men don't usually have any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Good grief, if you could choose a name, wouldn't you choose something fun and stylish? She's been waiting to live as a woman for so long, just let her enjoy it. I wouldn't pick Edna either. Well, it depends on whether you're hoping to pass. Having an anachronistic name is one of the give-aways for many transpeople. I'm sure there are names from the 1940s that are better more fun and stylish than Edna. That said, since Caitlin isn't really ever going to pass as a cisgender female (what with being out to the entire US if not the entire world), the name doesn't really matter in her case. But Mimm, if you were happening to think of transitioning, I'd suggest you consider whether the name you pick is going to give you away as trans, and whether you care. If you're a guy over 25 named Aiden, for example, me, my wife's and probably a lot of other people in the LGBT community's first assumption is going to be that you're trans. I'm sure there exist *some* cisgender guys over 25 named Aiden, but they're rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 At the end of the day, it is a magnificent image and sure to be an iconic part of the national conversation (and re-thinking of old ideas) about transgender issues. Jenner has the opportunity to change things for the better. I applaud her. Bill This is interesting to see how this plays out. Many people who are trans feel that Caitlyn is not appropriate as standard bearer for transgender issues, including my adult child, K. Caitlyn has money and resources that are out of reach for most transgender persons. It is much more common for a transgender person to have to make the choice between hormones and rent. Surgery is often out of the question due to finances. I hope she is content and happy with her choice, especially long term. There are some really troubling statistics about mental health post transition and for her sake I am wishing her the very best feelings over the entire process now and down the road, too. The statistics about mental health pre-transition are equally, if not more troubling. We are living this. One has to wonder if poor mental heath statistics aren't tied to dealing with the reactions of narrow-minded and cruel people? My hope is Jenner's story will open people's hearts and minds a good measure, and make the transition easier and less stressful for people in the future. Bill I do hope for a culture change and am heartened by the mostly positive response I have seen in the media. However, for people without Caitlyn's means, I don't think it will ever be easy. I don't think the previous poster was saying Caitlyn shouldn't have posed like that. I think she was expressing frustration with fashion culture modifying the appearance of people so much that they are unrecognizable in real life. Women then feel like their appearance is being compared to these celebrities. When even the celebrities don't look as good in real life as their photos then there is a problem. :iagree: 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 But Mimm, if you were happening to think of transitioning, I'd suggest you consider whether the name you pick is going to give you away as trans, and whether you care. If you're a guy over 25 named Aiden, for example, me, my wife's and probably a lot of other people in the LGBT community's first assumption is going to be that you're trans. I'm sure there exist *some* cisgender guys over 25 named Aiden, but they're rare. Would you please explain why??? It would never have occurred to me, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Would you please explain why??? It would never have occurred to me, I think luuknam means that today's common or trendy name was probably very rarely used back in 1950, so "Caitlyn Jenner" (particularly with that spelling) sounds like a high school kid in 2015, not like someone who was in high school in the 1960's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 This is interesting to see how this plays out. Many people who are trans feel that Caitlyn is not appropriate as standard bearer for transgender issues, including my adult child, K. Caitlyn has money and resources that are out of reach for most transgender persons. It is much more common for a transgender person to have to make the choice between hormones and rent. Surgery is often out of the question due to finances. I think for lots of issues, not only transgender ones, it takes all types to make things move forward. Ideally, a cause would have people who are doing difficult work "on the ground", people who donate money even if they can't donate time, and well-known people who bring awareness to an issue. I think people are savvy enough to realize Caitlyn has all kinds of advantages other trans people don't. When Angelina Jolie talked about her having her breasts and ovaries removed, she had a platform to help other women know they weren't alone. But I don't think anyone thought that meant everyone who wanted the same surgery could afford it or had insurance to cover it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think for lots of issues, not only transgender ones, it takes all types to make things move forward. Ideally, a cause would have people who are doing difficult work "on the ground", people who donate money but not time, and well-known people who bring awareness to an issue. I think people are savvy enough to realize Caitlyn has all kinds of advantages other trans people don't. When Angelina Jolie talked about her having her breasts and ovaries removed, she had a platform to help other women know they weren't alone. But I don't think anyone thought that meant everyone who wanted the same surgery could afford it or had insurance to cover it. Part of the issue is that many transgender people have trouble keeping jobs due to discrimination and often end up with very low-paying jobs. I do hope that attitudes change and this aspect changes. But when teens are kicked out of their houses and are struggling to make ends meet, it can be galling to see the media gushing about how beautiful Caitlyn is. ETA: especially when the media is ignoring this reality. VF is going to sell a lot of magazines, but are they going to talk about what is it like to be transgender and poor? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Adding that I think when someone is very used to being marginalized and disenfranchised, and someone from their community "makes it" and becomes well-known, that's a scary thing to have happen. It can feel like that person is not an authentic voice for the community somehow, that their movement has somehow become commercialized, or worse, that people will think that the community is now fully accepted and is no longer marginalized, thanks to a magazine cover. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 This is interesting to see how this plays out. Many people who are trans feel that Caitlyn is not appropriate as standard bearer for transgender issues, including my adult child, K. Caitlyn has money and resources that are out of reach for most transgender persons. It is much more common for a transgender person to have to make the choice between hormones and rent. Surgery is often out of the question due to finances. Jenner has many things going for her that others might not. The history of being the "world's greatest athlete," the hero status, the good looks, in addition to money. To my mind these extraordinary resources will play a big role in helping challenge cultural attitudes. Jenner has these advantage, but is also in the public glare in a way that most people are not. I think we should be glad for those advantages. I do hope for a culture change and am heartened by the mostly positive response I have seen in the media. However, for people without Caitlyn's means, I don't think it will ever be easy. I really do believe that Jenner will positively change cultural attitudes. I believe it will have a huge impact. Do I expect it means every trans person's life going forward will be easy? No. But will they have easier path do to Jenner's admittedly advantaged high-profile journey? I'd be shocked if it were not so. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Part of the issue is that many transgender people have trouble keeping jobs due to discrimination and often end up with very low-paying jobs. I do hope that attitudes change and this aspect changes. But when teens are kicked out of their houses and are struggling to make ends meet, it can be galling to see the media gushing about how beautiful Caitlyn is. ETA: especially when the media is ignoring this reality. VF is going to sell a lot of magazines, but are they going to talk about what is it like to be transgender and poor? We were writing at the same time. I think the media will become more aware and once the brouhaha is over, there will be more "backlash" articles posted. Maybe there already are, but I haven't looked. It won't be in VF, though. I could see an interesting long article in The New Yorker, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think it's funny that we have a celebrity, a former Olympian, as a transgender model on the cover of Vanity Fair and all the discussion revolves around hair, fashion, photoshop, age, etc. Yes it's persnickety, but in some ways it shows we've come a long way. This is probably not the discussion we would have been having 10 years ago. True, but this is not the first time a transgender operation caught the attention of the media. Unlike Jenner, Christine Jorgensen wasn't a celebrity until she became one, but the conversation 60 years ago was interesting. And the reception she got was surprisingly accepting for that time. I was a teenager when the movie about her life came out, and had never heard of her before that. My mother had though. She remembered the news about the surgery being everywhere and on everyone's lips. She had forgotten about it until the movie, but that triggered her memory. She remembered people being fascinated by it all. We've certainly moved forward since then. Jorgensen was going to marry, but the license wasn't granted because her birth certificate listed her as a male. Also, her fiance lost his job when it was discovered just who he was planning to marry. The way that would play out today is a welcome change. OTOH, her clothing choices, make-up and hair weren't picked apart like Jenner's is now (not just here, but all over the internet). She was treated with some curiosity because it was a curious thing at the time, but she was also treated with respect by the media. Something today's media should learn to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 THIS kid is brave and his dad is my hero. I'm very happy my boys attend the same high school as this young man did. The staff and the students give me hope that their will be wide-spread understanding and acceptence of LGBT in the very near future. http://www.fredericksburg.com/news/local/stafford/transgender-student-goes-through-stafford-schools/article_784911d1-03a4-5c58-87b6-517eb940142f.html?mode=jqm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Part of the issue is that many transgender people have trouble keeping jobs due to discrimination and often end up with very low-paying jobs. I do hope that attitudes change and this aspect changes. But when teens are kicked out of their houses and are struggling to make ends meet, it can be galling to see the media gushing about how beautiful Caitlyn is. ETA: especially when the media is ignoring this reality. VF is going to sell a lot of magazines, but are they going to talk about what is it like to be transgender and poor? I agree that we need to change attitudes. We need to talk about being transgender and poor and kicked out of the house and discrimination. There needs to be a way to start the discussion. Maybe this isn't it. But we need to start the discussion. How do we do that? As a public high school teacher, I see the discussion starting in our teenagers. How do we spread it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Part of the issue is that many transgender people have trouble keeping jobs due to discrimination and often end up with very low-paying jobs. I do hope that attitudes change and this aspect changes. But when teens are kicked out of their houses and are struggling to make ends meet, it can be galling to see the media gushing about how beautiful Caitlyn is. ETA: especially when the media is ignoring this reality. VF is going to sell a lot of magazines, but are they going to talk about what is it like to be transgender and poor? :iagree: I don't think the media is focusing on the Bruce Jenner/Caitlyn Jenner story for any other reason than that it sells magazines and pulls big ratings. I don't think it has anything to do with working toward worldwide acceptance of transgendered people. I don't believe it is of any consequence to the media whether people are thinking, "Good for her!" or "What a crazy freak show!" and as soon as people stop being shocked and amazed at Caitlyn's transformation, the media will move on to the next celebrity scandal. Sorry to be so cynical, but I don't think the media is focusing on Caitlyn because they care about the plight of transgendered people or because they think she is heroic or brave or whatever. It's all about the ratings and the money. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Welcome to Coffee Talk with Linda Richman. So was Chaz Bono under less scrutiny due to staying lower key (no VF cover, etc), because he's less famous overall, or because he transitioned to a male and they have less scrutiny in general? Talk amongst yourselves. Sorry for the SNL reference. :tongue_smilie: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Welcome to Coffee Talk with Linda Richman. So was Chaz Bono under less scrutiny due to staying lower key (no VF cover, etc), because he's less famous overall, or because he transitioned to a male and they have less scrutiny in general? Talk amongst yourselves. Sorry for the SNL reference. :tongue_smilie: We'll have coffee. We'll talk. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think the difference with Chaz is that he wasn't really famous in his own right. His parents were/are famous. Caitlyn is famous on her own accomplishments. Also, Chaz was not and is not as physically attractive as Caitlyn was and is so one is more likely than the other to be selected for a magazine cover. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Welcome to Coffee Talk with Linda Richman. So was Chaz Bono under less scrutiny due to staying lower key (no VF cover, etc), because he's less famous overall, or because he transitioned to a male and they have less scrutiny in general? Talk amongst yourselves. Sorry for the SNL reference. :tongue_smilie: OMG, I love your nails. They look like buttah! ;) I think Chaz had his share of scrutiny. Wasn't he on Oprah, etc.? I remember seeing him a bunch on the gossip sites as well. In general, though, Bruce has more because of his level of fame, the level of fame of his step-daughters, and his own accomplishments, etc. I also think people are being more supportive of Bruce/Caitlyn, because we've evolved more in the past few years. Chaz helped a lot, by being so open. It's been seven years since Chaz started transitioning. Caitlyn is helping. Laverne Cox helped. "Transparent" helped. I will say that I was pretty ignorant as to how well people could transition. I remember seeing the pics of the ophthalmologist/tennis star in the 70s/80s....drawing a blank....and I think she looked O.K., but I think techniques etc. have improved a lot. I saw "The Crying Game" and was clueless until the end. I was really surprised also at the transguy on the cover of Men's Health. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 OMG, I love your nails. They look like buttah! ;) I think Chaz had his share of scrutiny. Wasn't he on Oprah, etc.? I remember seeing him a bunch on the gossip sites as well. In general, though, Bruce has more because of his level of fame, the level of fame of his step-daughters, and his own accomplishments, etc. I will say that I was pretty ignorant as to how well people could transition. I remember seeing the pics of the ophthalmologist/tennis star in the 70s/80s....drawing a blank....and I think she looked O.K., but I think techniques etc. have improved a lot. I saw "The Crying Game" and was clueless until the end. I was really surprised also at the transguy on the cover of Men's Health. I think you are referring to Rene Richards. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I think you are referring to Rene Richards. Yes, thank you! I was drawing a blank and could only think of "R"-something. :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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