NOOOOOO!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't know that she really is seeing reality.  She says that they guess they'll have to go ahead with cabin plans without the kids being there.  You think?  

[Heather in VA]

I don't know that she really is seeing reality.  She says that they guess they'll have to go ahead with cabin plans without the kids being there.  You think?  

 

you know as sad as it is, that is a step toward reality just acknowledging it. That just shows how far from reality she is.

[swellmomma]

So new post I read over there today, court held over until July.  SHe writes "it's harder to get them back then just doing a few things". or something to that effect.  But the funniest (and not in a haha way) is a supporter linking this news story http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/11/pregnant-mother-12-accused-keeping-kids-in-waste-filled-tulsa-home-due-in-court/?intcmp=latestnews claiming authorities should focus on families like that and leave families like the Nauglers alone.  Ummm, from what it sounds the homes were pretty close to the came, but one was in the city and one was in the country where they could claim they were "off grid".  Either way it was a large number of children with a pregnant mom rescued from a home that had trash everywhere, no water, and no proper protection from the elements. 

[Heather in VA]

So very true - that sounds pretty much exactly like the Nauglers. I'd love to post a reply to that person but I really don't want my name on that page. Plus they would just ban me

[Jean in Newcastle]

So new post I read over there today, court held over until July.  SHe writes "it's harder to get them back then just doing a few things". or something to that effect.  But the funniest (and not in a haha way) is a supporter linking this news story http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/11/pregnant-mother-12-accused-keeping-kids-in-waste-filled-tulsa-home-due-in-court/?intcmp=latestnews claiming authorities should focus on families like that and leave families like the Nauglers alone.  Ummm, from what it sounds the homes were pretty close to the came, but one was in the city and one was in the country where they could claim they were "off grid".  Either way it was a large number of children with a pregnant mom rescued from a home that had trash everywhere, no water, and no proper protection from the elements. 

Yes, I noticed that.  

[swellmomma]

So very true - that sounds pretty much exactly like the Nauglers. I'd love to post a reply to that person but I really don't want my name on that page. Plus they would just ban me

Me too, I don't care if they ban me, but I do not need to invite crazy into my life, I have enough of it home grown lol

[Rivka]

Hoo boy. Followed a link on the BLH facebook page to this piece of rampant paranoid delusion.

 

https://kateofgaia.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/birth-certificate-explained.jpg

[Χά�ων]

Hoo boy. Followed a link on the BLH facebook page to this piece of rampant paranoid delusion.

 

https://kateofgaia.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/birth-certificate-explained.jpg

That is just wow.

[Guest]

RIVKA, you are dead now as only tombstones have uppercase. Bummer for you.

[Heather in VA]

Hoo boy. Followed a link on the BLH facebook page to this piece of rampant paranoid delusion.

 

https://kateofgaia.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/birth-certificate-explained.jpg

No words

[myfunnybunch]

Hoo boy. Followed a link on the BLH facebook page to this piece of rampant paranoid delusion.

 

https://kateofgaia.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/birth-certificate-explained.jpg

 

Golly. Now I am going to try writing the names of all of the people who annoy me in curse-ive, like the guy who lets his dog poop on the sidewalk near the park.

 

We'll see what happens. If only I'd known this before....

 

:huh:

[idnib]

What is it the young folks are saying?

 

"I literally can't even."

[Tanaqui]

Ah, the fake corporate identity so beloved by "sovereign citizens". It's really a bizarre mindset. On the one hand, the government has this enormous power to hide money under your child's fake identity... and on the other, they can be thwarted simply by writing your name normally instead of in ALL CAPS. It's like they think they're dealing with magical fairies.

[mamaraby]

What's this now? You mean the government isn't made up of fairies?

 

*faints*

[Jean in Newcastle]

I actually talked to a conspiracy theorist the other day.  Dh, who knew what the guy was like, just grinned and kept walking when the guy called out to him that "Your wife and I are talking politics!"  I was not talking politics.  I was going "Mmm hmm.  Mmm. hmmm.  Um, excuse me, I think I need to go get some tea."  I didn't call anything out as weird because I didn't happen to have proof at my fingertips for why some of the things he was saying was so crazy."  

 

The take away from it all is that we should hide because we are puppets at the hands of the evil puppet masters.  Maybe I should go off grid.  
 

[Corraleno]

I think the Nauglers genuinely thought that "going viral" with their psycho videos would somehow create enough outrage that CPS would be forced to return their kids. And now it's finally sinking in that no matter how many "likes" their FB pages have, or how many nutty followers spam the Sheriff's page with lectures on sovereign rights, they really are going to have to play the game and jump through every hoop CPS sets for them. I suspect that the list of "hoops" they got in court yesterday was waaaaaay longer than they thought, and included things like psych & drug testing, parenting classes, etc.. Also, it's likely that the July 13th hearing is just a "progress" hearing, not a "return the kids" hearing, and that there's no set date for returning them.

 

I think they've purposely avoided putting any real effort or money into the "homestead" because they've been planning to take the money and run as soon as they got the kids back. So now they're stuck with trying to choose the "least bad" of three bad options. If they stay in KY, they will have to put all the money they have into suitable housing, they'll be required to get their kids birth certificates, proper medical/dental care, provide an actual education (and may even be required to put them in school), will probably be required to get on some kind of gov't assistance (at least for food), and will continue to be closely supervised by CPS.

 

Trying to take the kids and run means abandoning the "homestead" and all the money they put into it in order to get the kids back. It means abandoning the new salon and screwing the folks at Capistan who naively trusted Nicole. (It's not the first time she's done that, though — I think she's already closed/abandoned 3 other salons she started). It would also probably violate the terms of any custody agreement they have, so could put them in even deeper legal trouble.They'd be leaving with little or no money and not much chance of fund raising since the whole country knows about them now. Where's a family of 13 going to go with no money, no credit, and no job?

 

The only other option they have is to take the money and run now, before the baby is born, and give up any chance of getting the other 10 kids back.

 

The first option is what any reasonable, non-mentally-ill parent would choose, but that may actually be the least acceptable option to the Nauglers.  :sad:

 

[Heather in VA]

Why do I get the feeling these ideas and other similar concepts were created during a fun little session with a special little happy plant and then put on the internet so they can laugh at the idiots who believe it. 

 

 

[Corraleno]

On a lighter note, here are some funny comments I've seen about this case:

 

 

If that’s a cabin, my colander is a bowl.

 

I'm sure TLC will be knocking on their...well, yelling at the...okay, TLC will approach the homestead and proclaim loudly, 'Don't shoot! We're here to make you rich and famous!'

 

I never passed by one of those covered picnic tables in a park and thought, 'Hey, this'd be a great place to raise a family. I'll need a bunch a guns.’

 

Naugler Contracting, LLC: Building the dream one stick at a time!

It’s very light construction. You might almost say homeopathic construction.

 

I'm surprised they were able to round up the little tikes. Who was in charge of the conch that day?

   Piggy?

    With the noon day sun, they all come running for the fly soup lunch.

 

 

 

The line about "homeopathic construction" made me LMAO.  :lol:

 

 

[MomtoCandJ]

Ok I succumbed to the picture looking... My 6 year old builds more substantial forts and I thing the kids would have been better off in a little tykes playhouse :(

[Heather in VA]

I think the Nauglers genuinely thought that "going viral" with their psycho videos would somehow create enough outrage that CPS would be forced to return their kids. And now it's finally sinking in that no matter how many "likes" their FB pages have, or how many nutty followers spam the Sheriff's page with lectures on sovereign rights, they really are going to have to play the game and jump through every hoop CPS sets for them. I suspect that the list of "hoops" they got in court yesterday was waaaaaay longer than they thought, and included things like psych & drug testing, parenting classes, etc.. Also, it's likely that the July 13th hearing is just a "progress" hearing, not a "return the kids" hearing, and that there's no set date for returning them.

 

I think they've purposely avoided putting any real effort or money into the "homestead" because they've been planning to take the money and run as soon as they got the kids back. So now they're stuck with trying to choose the "least bad" of three bad options. If they stay in KY, they will have to put all the money they have into suitable housing, they'll be required to get their kids birth certificates, proper medical/dental care, provide an actual education (and may even be required to put them in school), will probably be required to get on some kind of gov't assistance (at least for food), and will continue to be closely supervised by CPS.

 

Trying to take the kids and run means abandoning the "homestead" and all the money they put into it in order to get the kids back. It means abandoning the new salon and screwing the folks at Capistan who naively trusted Nicole. (It's not the first time she's done that, though — I think she's already closed/abandoned 3 other salons she started). It would also probably violate the terms of any custody agreement they have, so could put them in even deeper legal trouble.They'd be leaving with little or no money and not much chance of fund raising since the whole country knows about them now. Where's a family of 13 going to go with no money, no credit, and no job?

 

The only other option they have is to take the money and run now, before the baby is born, and give up any chance of getting the other 10 kids back.

 

The first option is what any reasonable, non-mentally-ill parent would choose, but that may actually be the least acceptable option to the Nauglers.  :sad:

 

I agree with all of this. I think they are just starting to realize that this time they've really stepped in it. They can't just run away like they have in the past. 

 

I'm just not sure what I think they will do. I suspect Joe wants to take off. He seems like he'd be more about the money and avoiding the charges related to the menacing and perhaps some forthcoming charges related to the children. If he's abused them physically or sexually I suspect he's definitely leaning toward the cut and run scenario. He knows the kids will tell about that kind of thing eventually and it could be really bad for him.

 

I really do think Nicole wants her kids back. We've questioned that before because of her ridiculous rhetoric and complete lack of motivation to do anything necessary to get them back. I don't think she wants them back in the desperate fashion most of us would. I don't think she thought it would be hard to get them back and now she's overwhelmed with the idea that they really do have to do a lot. Since I'm pretty sure Joe wants to take off, she's probably dealing with that as well. From most accounts she was functional before him and he's dragged her down and she's let him. It seems pretty co-dependent to me. I don't think she's in any kind of frame of mind to fight him to stay and do the work necessary to get the kids back if he is indeed wanting to take the money and run. In that case she might run with him.

 

i think the best thing that could happen would be that Joe bails on everyone, including Nicole. Even if he takes the money she would have a much better chance of righting herself and start down a road, albeit a long road, toward getting the kids back. I don't see it really happening if Joe and Nicole stay together.

NM.  Trying to minimize my snark and just hope for the best for the kids. 

[Corraleno]

i think the best thing that could happen would be that Joe bails on everyone, including Nicole. Even if he takes the money she would have a much better chance of righting herself and start down a road, albeit a long road, toward getting the kids back. I don't see it really happening if Joe and Nicole stay together.

:iagree:

 

 

I think Nicole does want the kids back, but primarily because of what she needs from them, not the other way around. She needs Jacob and Quintin to take care of her and be the "men of the house" in a way that Joe will never be. And she needs the baby & toddler to make her feel loved and needed. The middle kids are just free labor.

 

On her blogs there are always lots of photos of the newest baby, a few of whichever child is the toddler at the time, and some of Jacob and Quintin working or cooking, but you rarely see the middle kids except in group shots. Occasionally she stages a photo of Olivia picking flowers or running through a field, but those are clearly meant to convey an image for her blog, rather than capturing a genuine moment. 

 

She really does just sort of birth them and then "set them free" as soon as there's a new baby to cuddle. She can label it "free range parenting" and brag about a 3 year old cooking his own "dinner" over an open flame, but the reality is she just has no clue how to parent. While she's spending hours and hours posting all over FB about her rights and her pain and her plans, the older kids are probably worried sick about the littles.  :sad:

 

[Mimm]

On a lighter note, here are some funny comments I've seen about this case:

 

 

I'm sure TLC will be knocking on their...well, yelling at the...okay, TLC will approach the homestead and proclaim loudly, 'Don't shoot! We're here to make you rich and famous!'

 

 

The line about "homeopathic construction" made me LMAO.  :lol:

 

That made me laugh. :) And with Nicole's need to live her life very publicly, she'd accept a TLC show in a heartbeat.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I think Nicole does want the kids back, but primarily because of what she needs from them, not the other way around. She needs Jacob and Quintin to take care of her and be the "men of the house" in a way that Joe will never be. And she needs the baby & toddler to make her feel loved and needed. The middle kids are just free labor.

 

On her blogs there are always lots of photos of the newest baby, a few of whichever child is the toddler at the time, and some of Jacob and Quintin working or cooking, but you rarely see the middle kids except in group shots. Occasionally she stages a photo of Olivia picking flowers or running through a field, but those are clearly meant to convey an image for her blog, rather than capturing a genuine moment. 

 

She really does just sort of birth them and then "set them free" as soon as there's a new baby to cuddle. She can label it "free range parenting" and brag about a 3 year old cooking his own "dinner" over an open flame, but the reality is she just has no clue how to parent. While she's spending hours and hours posting all over FB about her rights and her pain and her plans, the older kids are probably worried sick about the littles.  :sad:

 

I think this is spot on, particularly the part I bolded. I don't see Nicole abandoning the kids. The weird way she would close off the bedrooms and wants everyone living in as close quarters as she can is very very weird and I think it's her needing them around her at all times. The kids probably like living on so much land just so they can have some breathing room. Can't imagine what winter is like for them. :( As an introvert, it sounds like torture.

[Guest]

:iagree:

 

 

I think Nicole does want the kids back, but primarily because of what she needs from them, not the other way around. She needs Jacob and Quintin to take care of her and be the "men of the house" in a way that Joe will never be. And she needs the baby & toddler to make her feel loved and needed. The middle kids are just free labor.

 

On her blogs there are always lots of photos of the newest baby, a few of whichever child is the toddler at the time, and some of Jacob and Quintin working or cooking, but you rarely see the middle kids except in group shots. Occasionally she stages a photo of Olivia picking flowers or running through a field, but those are clearly meant to convey an image for her blog, rather than capturing a genuine moment.

 

She really does just sort of birth them and then "set them free" as soon as there's a new baby to cuddle. She can label it "free range parenting" and brag about a 3 year old cooking his own "dinner" over an open flame, but the reality is she just has no clue how to parent. While she's spending hours and hours posting all over FB about her rights and her pain and her plans, the older kids are probably worried sick about the littles. :sad:

Yes! She posts with no filter and she has said nothing about being worried about her kids. Are the littles being tucked in? Are they scared? Do the foster parents know the special way Jr likes his eggs? Are the ok with Susie's quirks? Although, I doubt Nicole knows any of those things about her kids. So sad!!

[Laura Corin]

Hoo boy. Followed a link on the BLH facebook page to this piece of rampant paranoid delusion.

 

https://kateofgaia.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/birth-certificate-explained.jpg

 

That looks like an old-format British birth certificate - mine looks like that, but Calvin's is a different shape.  Why analyse that?

[Rivka]

That looks like an old-format British birth certificate - mine looks like that, but Calvin's is a different shape.  Why analyse that?

 

Because ALL OF US belong to the CROWN CORPORATION.

[intothefray]

I'm still in the beginning pages but I've been following this train wreck for awhile on various other sites.

 

I've had personal experience with CPS. (My son has a different father and he has joint custody. However, he's one of those people who takes you to court all the time to try to get custody, he won't pay his child support and he's hardly ever around when he has visitation) My mom picked up my son one day from them and told them a bunch of lies (we had been fighting at the time and she was living with me) and he in turn, reported me to CPS. They showed up at my house, looked over my kids and said that they looked fine. Until they saw my (at the time 6 month old) daughter who had a small bruise colored spot on her butt. I explained to her that it had been there for a few months and I never left my daughters side so nobody could have possibly hurt her. We ended up going to the ER so the ER doctor could look it over and determine what it was. The CPS Worker called the cops and a female cop showed up and spoke to my husband and I seperately. We were there for several hours before the ER doctor looked at it. He kept claiming it was a bruise and I was screaming and crying saying that there was no way in hell it was a bruise. I asked for a second opinion which he said was my right and while waiting for the pediatrician to come down, CPS asked us to make arrangements for my kids to stay somewhere else. It's the only time I've ever seen my husband break down.

While he went to get the kids clothes, the pediatrician came down, looked over my DD and said he was 99% sure it was a Mongolian Spot and in that moment, we were allowed to take our kids home. It was a very devestating time and though I fought, I did NOT scream at the CPS worker because I knew she was doing her job. I was terrified, I was nervous and sad and scared and angry and so many other things, but I never once fought at her. I cried and begged her to believe me that it was NOT a bruise.

 

The case was unfounded a few weeks later. I still have PTSD from it and it's been a year. Dealing with CPS is scary, but knowing that they're only there for the kids sakes is something that people need to understand.

 

While I feel sad for the Nauglers because it's sad and heartbreaking, they need to put their kids before themselves.

 

I hope I'm not OT with this story.

[Tanaqui]

That's a scary story!  *hugs* But it all worked out, at least. A lot of people have had encounters with child services due to Mongolian spots. The best thing to do now, seriously, is to document it. Have the doctor write down where the birthmark is and how it looks, and obtain a copy. Anybody whose kid has a birthmark that can look like abuse should do this. It just makes life much simpler if misunderstandings happen.

[intothefray]

That's a scary story!  *hugs* But it all worked out, at least. A lot of people have had encounters with child services due to Mongolian spots. The best thing to do now, seriously, is to document it. Have the doctor write down where the birthmark is and how it looks, and obtain a copy. Anybody whose kid has a birthmark that can look like abuse should do this. It just makes life much simpler if misunderstandings happen.

 

YES!!! Exactly, this! When we moved because we were offered a house by a family member, I made sure the new doctors checked it and documented it into their records. The good part that came out of this is that the CPS office there learned about Mongolian Spots and now know what to look for when they have cases. She told me as much when we met after that. That was one of the most terrifying days of my life.

[maize]

YES!!! Exactly, this! When we moved because we were offered a house by a family member, I made sure the new doctors checked it and documented it into their records. The good part that came out of this is that the CPS office there learned about Mongolian Spots and now know what to look for when they have cases. She told me as much when we met after that. That was one of the most terrifying days of my life.

 

I am rather shocked that neither the CPS workers nor the first doctor knew about Mongolian Spots. They are rather common birth marks, I have family members who have them. More common in people with some racial and ethnic backgrounds than others, but it upsets me a lot to think that people responsible for the health and well being of children would not be familiar with them.

 

I'm so sorry for what you went through.

[Mimm]

I'm still in the beginning pages but I've been following this train wreck for awhile on various other sites.

 

I've had personal experience with CPS. (My son has a different father and he has joint custody. However, he's one of those people who takes you to court all the time to try to get custody, he won't pay his child support and he's hardly ever around when he has visitation) My mom picked up my son one day from them and told them a bunch of lies (we had been fighting at the time and she was living with me) and he in turn, reported me to CPS. They showed up at my house, looked over my kids and said that they looked fine. Until they saw my (at the time 6 month old) daughter who had a small bruise colored spot on her butt. I explained to her that it had been there for a few months and I never left my daughters side so nobody could have possibly hurt her. We ended up going to the ER so the ER doctor could look it over and determine what it was. The CPS Worker called the cops and a female cop showed up and spoke to my husband and I seperately. We were there for several hours before the ER doctor looked at it. He kept claiming it was a bruise and I was screaming and crying saying that there was no way in hell it was a bruise. I asked for a second opinion which he said was my right and while waiting for the pediatrician to come down, CPS asked us to make arrangements for my kids to stay somewhere else. It's the only time I've ever seen my husband break down.

While he went to get the kids clothes, the pediatrician came down, looked over my DD and said he was 99% sure it was a Mongolian Spot and in that moment, we were allowed to take our kids home. It was a very devestating time and though I fought, I did NOT scream at the CPS worker because I knew she was doing her job. I was terrified, I was nervous and sad and scared and angry and so many other things, but I never once fought at her. I cried and begged her to believe me that it was NOT a bruise.

 

The case was unfounded a few weeks later. I still have PTSD from it and it's been a year. Dealing with CPS is scary, but knowing that they're only there for the kids sakes is something that people need to understand.

 

While I feel sad for the Nauglers because it's sad and heartbreaking, they need to put their kids before themselves.

 

I hope I'm not OT with this story.

 

These stories are what scare me. This much upset over a bruise? My kids run around bruised all the time. My 1 year old has a bruise on her shin right now. Why? She runs and plays and trips and crashes into things and falls down. She also almost never cries, and has never been spanked and is loved and adored and spoiled. I know someone who went through a similar incident to this and it changed her. She would never leave the house if her child had bruises and was afraid to let them play outside or go to a park or whatever. This is the bad side of CPS and this is what frustrates people and why they support people like the Nauglers reflexively.

 

:grouphug:  intothefray. I have to say that if my mother told lies about me that had CPS called on me, regardless of the outcome, she would never see or speak to me or my children again for the rest of her life. No second chances on that. That's is a line that should NEVER be crossed.

[Ausmumof3]

I think here it's only considered a potential sign of abuse if the body is on a core body area like buttocks or abdomen because kids are less likely to have these accidentally. If it's on arms or legs you should be fine. My youngest has bruises on his legs a lot as he tries to keep up with the two older kids, poor baby.

[intothefray]

These stories are what scare me. This much upset over a bruise? My kids run around bruised all the time. My 1 year old has a bruise on her shin right now. Why? She runs and plays and trips and crashes into things and falls down. She also almost never cries, and has never been spanked and is loved and adored and spoiled. I know someone who went through a similar incident to this and it changed her. She would never leave the house if her child had bruises and was afraid to let them play outside or go to a park or whatever. This is the bad side of CPS and this is what frustrates people and why they support people like the Nauglers reflexively.

 

:grouphug:  intothefray. I have to say that if my mother told lies about me that had CPS called on me, regardless of the outcome, she would never see or speak to me or my children again for the rest of her life. No second chances on that. That's is a line that should NEVER be crossed.

 

The CPS investigation was because my mom said that I was yanking on his arms and wouldn't let him have drinks and that I made him go back to bed until I got up and there were some other allegations. NONE of which were true. My son is a happy, healthy little monster (who was recently diagnosed with ADHD) who CRIES his eyes out every time he has to go to his fathers house. Recently, someone knocked on the door and he ran and hid and when I talked to him about it he said he thought it was because his step-mother and father were at the door. He's been this way since the beginning of going there. 5 years ago.

 

Also, the ONLY reason I still talk to my mom is because if I cut off all contact with her, I won't be able to see my little brother. But as soon as he is 18, I'm beyond done. I just don't want to lose my brother. I have made it quite clear that I don't trust her and I will never forgive her for that.

 

Now I'm getting off topic. Oops.

 

Anyways, back to the Naugler family, I can't IMAGINE how it must feel to not see your kids for 2 months straight. Also, a concern with my CPS investigation was that I was overwhelmed. (I have 4 kids) and I have to wonder if that's not part of hers with her having 10 kids. I wish we knew the full list of CPS allegations.

[Desert Strawberry]

I think here it's only considered a potential sign of abuse if the body is on a core body area like buttocks or abdomen because kids are less likely to have these accidentally. If it's on arms or legs you should be fine. My youngest has bruises on his legs a lot as he tries to keep up with the two older kids, poor baby.

In my mandatory reporter training, we were taught which bruises were suspicious and which were normal. Shins, faces, foreheads, elbows are normal. Large bruises, bruises on back, chest, tummy, neck, upper thigh, inner thigh, buttocks, multiple bruises in various stages of healing, hand print or fist shaped bruises, something funny is going on. Usually a quick question is enough to clear it up. 

"Hey. buddy. What happened there?"

"My brother pushed me on the stairs." "I fell on my Bike." "My sister and I were fighting over a jumprope and it burned me." 

Obviously, if the kid seems to always be having "accidents" or the stories seem rehearsed or implausible, you might need to delve a bit deeper. 

It really isn't so much a matter of any bruise ever being suspicious. There are and should be certain bruises that trigger red flags, while others wouldn't. 

[momto10blessings]

These stories are what scare me. This much upset over a bruise? My kids run around bruised all the time. My 1 year old has a bruise on her shin right now. Why? She runs and plays and trips and crashes into things and falls down. She also almost never cries, and has never been spanked and is loved and adored and spoiled. I know someone who went through a similar incident to this and it changed her. She would never leave the house if her child had bruises and was afraid to let them play outside or go to a park or whatever. This is the bad side of CPS and this is what frustrates people and why they support people like the Nauglers reflexively.

 

:grouphug: intothefray. I have to say that if my mother told lies about me that had CPS called on me, regardless of the outcome, she would never see or speak to me or my children again for the rest of her life. No second chances on that. That's is a line that should NEVER be crossed.

It makes me nervous too. My kids bruise just as easily as I do and always have bruises. And we usually don't know where they came from. I can get a bruise just from my kids climbin on me or carrying heavy grocery bags. My kids are the same way.

[swellmomma]

The case was unfounded a few weeks later. I still have PTSD from it and it's been a year. Dealing with CPS is scary, but knowing that they're only there for the kids sakes is something that people need to understand.

 

In my case it has been 5 years and I still have PTSD from our experience.  It was terrifying (in our case the initial concern was valid, explainable but valid, they determined there was no abuse and no neglect, but the CW felt as a single mom there was no way I could adequately homeschool s/n kids and she didn't like that I still bf and coslept with my then 2 year old).  Despite our registered school board showing the kids were doing well, the ped and nurses and OT we worked with etc all speaking up on our behalf she kept saying she didn't feel done.  ANyway it became a year long nightmare of her threatening me weekly to take the kids unless I put them in ps, telling me if I was married she never would have opened the file, if they were in ps she would close it immediately.  When we moved just as her supervisor was making her close the file (they knew of the move for months, I bought a house), she sent a letter to the CPS office closest to us filled with lies, and refused to send the file to the new CW (who started a whole new investigation) for months.  WHen they finally got the file they closed immediately.  It had been a witch hunt based on personal agenda of the cw.  I also never reacted the way the Nauglers did.  They came with the initial concern, it was rectified within 5 days, I allowed them to interview the kids yada yada, they put in writing no abuse, no neglect etc.  I barely ate for those 5 days, and I barely slept as I rectified the situation.  Over the next year I dug my heels in and refused to change what we were doing unless she would take me to court to get an order making me stop (it is legal to homeschool and co sleep and breasfeed), she refused to take me to court because she knew she had no legal grounds.  Now had they actually taken my kids they would have been fully registered in public school the same day and daughter fully weaned (I had a bed set up for her, she just wasn't ready).  Anyway, not trying to derail, just saying, yup, BTDT, still have nightmares of that time, swear I have a form of PTSD as a result, and still never acted like the Nauglers

 

I get the digging in of the heels for things that are perfectly legal, I did it.  I don't get the denial or pure craziness or apparent refusal to rectify the situation.  Like I said I barely ate and slept for those days fixing the problem.  Their situation takes more than days to fix, but I could not imagine taking the time to photograph nature and argue with people on facebook.  WHen I had my issue I was both too busy to be online but also ashamed to be in the situation I was in to begin with. 

 

It's been 5 years since the file was closed, When I get my child welfare record check done now for work they put on it that there is no known concerns, the past investigation does not get listed.  IT is still on file somewhere but it will not affect me any longer with work since there was no maltreatment, and it should have been closed when they came back to see me 5 days after the initial knock at the door.  

 

 

THe only people I feel for in the Naugler kids who have parent more worried about their own "rights" than about their actual children's wellbeing. I can not get my head around that at all.

[intothefray]

In my case it has been 5 years and I still have PTSD from our experience.  It was terrifying (in our case the initial concern was valid, explainable but valid, they determined there was no abuse and no neglect, but the CW felt as a single mom there was no way I could adequately homeschool s/n kids and she didn't like that I still bf and coslept with my then 2 year old).  Despite our registered school board showing the kids were doing well, the ped and nurses and OT we worked with etc all speaking up on our behalf she kept saying she didn't feel done.  ANyway it became a year long nightmare of her threatening me weekly to take the kids unless I put them in ps, telling me if I was married she never would have opened the file, if they were in ps she would close it immediately.  When we moved just as her supervisor was making her close the file (they knew of the move for months, I bought a house), she sent a letter to the CPS office closest to us filled with lies, and refused to send the file to the new CW (who started a whole new investigation) for months.  WHen they finally got the file they closed immediately.  It had been a witch hunt based on personal agenda of the cw.  I also never reacted the way the Nauglers did.  They came with the initial concern, it was rectified within 5 days, I allowed them to interview the kids yada yada, they put in writing no abuse, no neglect etc.  I barely ate for those 5 days, and I barely slept as I rectified the situation.  Over the next year I dug my heels in and refused to change what we were doing unless she would take me to court to get an order making me stop (it is legal to homeschool and co sleep and breasfeed), she refused to take me to court because she knew she had no legal grounds.  Now had they actually taken my kids they would have been fully registered in public school the same day and daughter fully weaned (I had a bed set up for her, she just wasn't ready).  Anyway, not trying to derail, just saying, yup, BTDT, still have nightmares of that time, swear I have a form of PTSD as a result, and still never acted like the Nauglers

 

I get the digging in of the heels for things that are perfectly legal, I did it.  I don't get the denial or pure craziness or apparent refusal to rectify the situation.  Like I said I barely ate and slept for those days fixing the problem.  Their situation takes more than days to fix, but I could not imagine taking the time to photograph nature and argue with people on facebook.  WHen I had my issue I was both too busy to be online but also ashamed to be in the situation I was in to begin with. 

 

It's been 5 years since the file was closed, When I get my child welfare record check done now for work they put on it that there is no known concerns, the past investigation does not get listed.  IT is still on file somewhere but it will not affect me any longer with work since there was no maltreatment, and it should have been closed when they came back to see me 5 days after the initial knock at the door.  

 

 

THe only people I feel for in the Naugler kids who have parent more worried about their own "rights" than about their actual children's wellbeing. I can not get my head around that at all.

 

I'm so sorry. Any CPS experience is terrifiying.

 

We had someone knock on the door the other day that I wasn't expecting and my heart dropped to my stomach and I was shaking and hyperventilating. It has gotten to the point that I am considering seeking counsling to help with the anxiety.

 

My daughter has speech therapy and the lady comes to the house and we were talking the other day about a case she had to deal with. She didn't name any names but she said that the people had a 5 year old who wasn't in school (despite being enrolled) and was still in diapers and they basically locked him in his room 24/7 with the exception of seeing her. She said she showed up there unexpectedly one day at 1pm and  the kid was still locked in the room with his parents sleeping and he hadn't eat in a couple of days. She told me that she HAD to report it but it broke her heart. I wish people would pull their heads out of their asses and learn to properly take care of a kid. That's just inexcusable. I hope that poor baby is with someone who will take care of him.

 

My oldest is almost 6 and I've dealt with CPS 3 different times.

The first time he was only a few weeks old and someone reported me for having PPD and staying in my mom's house. Which was a terrible house and wasn't fit for any kids. I was actually living with my grandmother in her gorgeous trailer and just going to visit my mom during the day so I wouldn't be alone. I wasn't allowed to go over there with my son after that. (The house had wires hanging and wasn't very safe. I was only 19 and sleep deprived so I didn't know any better that we shouldn't be there.) The CPS worker told my mom that if she'd been called there for my brother, she would have removed him.

 

The second was my ex trying to get back at me. I don't remember why they were called but they took one look at my son and my place and said that it was absolutely fine and that was unfounded.

 

And the 3rd was a year ago.

 

So I have more experience than I ever wanted to have. It's crazy. BUT, I understand that CPS is there for the kids so instead of fighting and screaming with them the way Nicole did, no matter how it was going, I  would and DID talk to them in a calm manner to make sure they knew everything was fine. I lost it a little bit when they threatened to take my kids away but I was NOT screaming in her face or the officers face telling them to shoot me. We made the arrangements and I continued telling them that it was NOT a bruise. I've spanked my kids a couple of times when it came to their safety. But that's the gist of it. I would never do anything to hurt them in any way shape or form. And had my kids been taken for that, I would have done everything in my power I could to get them back. I wouldn't be playing on FB or taking pictures of flowers. She's insane.

[idnib]

I used to have Mongolian spots. I remember my dad driving me to a medical school when I was 4 or 5 so the students could get a look at them. They're very common in our genetic type but were rare in the area in which we lived in the 1970s, which was almost all white folks. I was a novelty.  :)

 

My DS had them too, one on his shoulder blade and one right at the base of his spine. They looked very much like bruises and I was grateful when his faded. He still has a tiny one on his heel but nobody cares about that one. I'm glad DD didn't have them. 

[BigMamaBird]

I am rather shocked that neither the CPS workers nor the first doctor knew about Mongolian Spots. They are rather common birth marks, I have family members who have them. More common in people with some racial and ethnic backgrounds than others, but it upsets me a lot to think that people responsible for the health and well being of children would not be familiar with them.

 

I'm so sorry for what you went through.

 

My son has a large one on his lower back, it seriously looks like a Batsignal shaped tramp stamp!  Our Ped. put it in his medical record in case we were ever accused of giving him a bruise.  It is scary that an ER doc could not know what one was and call CPS!

[intothefray]

I used to have Mongolian spots. I remember my dad driving me to a medical school when I was 4 or 5 so the students could get a look at them. They're very common in our genetic type but were rare in the area in which we lived in the 1970s, which was almost all white folks. I was a novelty.  :)

 

My DS had them too, one on his shoulder blade and one right at the base of his spine. They looked very much like bruises and I was grateful when his faded. He still has a tiny one on his heel but nobody cares about that one. I'm glad DD didn't have them. 

 

My husband looks very Native American and has it in his family, and my grandfathers side is all Cherokee. So I'm not surprised she has it. I was surprised that our older daughter didn't have them. I guess our neice had one as well when she was born. Interesting. It was really cool to learn about them...just not the way it happened.

[Heather in VA]

One of my children had a Mongolian spot. It was discovered at her first pediatrician appointment when she was a day old (she was a home birth). My pediatrician made a big point of putting it in her medical record. I had never heard of them so I was glad he know it was important to record it. My kids are bi-racial and apparently that makes them more likely to have them.

[intothefray]

My son has a large one on his lower back, it seriously looks like a Batsignal shaped tramp stamp!  Our Ped. put it in his medical record in case we were ever accused of giving him a bruise.  It is scary that an ER doc could not know what one was and call CPS!

 

Oh, CPS was there first and then we went to the ER. She'd had the spot for awhile and a couple months before it was quarter sized and I was planning on talking about it to the Doctor but since it didn't seem to bother her at all, I didn't think it was an emergency. So it didn't get put on record until I went back.

 

The ER doctor kept insisting it was a bruise and I'm just SO FREAKING GLAD that I had the instinct to ask for a second opinion. I knew that there was NO POSSIBLE WAY that it was a bruise. I remember when she said we can take them home, I just kept hugging and kissing my children. I still get sick to my stomach. As a matter of fact, the anniversary of it was 2 days ago so I've been thinking about it quite a bit lately.

[intothefray]

One of my children had a Mongolian spot. It was discovered at her first pediatrician appointment when she was a day old (she was a home birth). My pediatrician made a big point of putting it in her medical record. I had never heard of them so I was glad he know it was important to record it. My kids are bi-racial and apparently that makes them more likely to have them.

 

DD developed hers a few months after she was born and it was tiny when it started out. I don't think she was born with it because I remember the day I noticed it. I don't know...I feel like I failed because I didn't think anything of it since I knew it wasn't a bruise.

[maize]

DD developed hers a few months after she was born and it was tiny when it started out. I don't think she was born with it because I remember the day I noticed it. I don't know...I feel like I failed because I didn't think anything of it since I knew it wasn't a bruise.

 

They are sometimes present at birth but sometimes develop later.

 

For those who are not familiar with Mongolian blue spots, here is more information:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_spot

[Renai]

My son has a large one on his lower back, it seriously looks like a Batsignal shaped tramp stamp!  Our Ped. put it in his medical record in case we were ever accused of giving him a bruise.  It is scary that an ER doc could not know what one was and call CPS!

 

Both of my girls are biracial and have/had them - very large, on the back and buttocks. With my first, I was concerned as I had no clue what it was. Our doctor explained what it was and that it was common in people with color. She also made a point to put it in the record so there would be no abuse allegations. Good thing too, as one appointment there was a new nurse who saw it and almost freaked out. I educated her and referred her to the chart.

[Ottakee]

I am sorry for those of you who have had CPS scares.

 

As a foster parent one day our adopted daughter ran outside to meet the CPS worker with a huge black eye and cut under her eye.  She was about 4 at the time.  They NEVER even asked what happened to her or why she had a black eye, etc. as they handed 3 more kids to me.  That was a time I was worried they might ask.  She had fallen UP the steps in our garage.  They were the metal grating ones like used in industry.

In over 110 cases that have come through our house only 1 has been questionable and he should have stayed with his parents.  The CPS worker KNEW this but also knew he couldn't leave him there until they figured things out.  He was a 6 week old, 6 pound, preemie baby with FOUR broken bones.....2 legs and 2 ribs.  The CPS worker said it was the hardest case he had ever done as he didn't want to remove the child as he didnt' think the parents had hurt him BUT they needed him safe while they figured it out as the risk of leaving a 6 pound baby in a home with 4 broken bones was just too great.  The baby was with us a few weeks and then went home.  It wasn't the parents but someone else that had access to the baby.  Once that was determined and a safety plan in place the baby went home.

We have had children who were left home alone before they were a year old (and not just 5 minutes while mom ran next door for a cup of sugar either), kids home when bio parents tried to commit suicide, kids with severe medical neglect---tube fed kid not being fed regularly and had moldy equipment, kids repeatedly wandering the streets for hours---at ages 1 and 3, kids with human bite marks from an adult, kids in drug homes, and on and on.

[Heather in VA]

I am sorry for those of you who have had CPS scares.

 

As a foster parent one day our adopted daughter ran outside to meet the CPS worker with a huge black eye and cut under her eye.  She was about 4 at the time.  They NEVER even asked what happened to her or why she had a black eye, etc. as they handed 3 more kids to me.  That was a time I was worried they might ask.  She had fallen UP the steps in our garage.  They were the metal grating ones like used in industry.

 

In over 110 cases that have come through our house only 1 has been questionable and he should have stayed with his parents.  The CPS worker KNEW this but also knew he couldn't leave him there until they figured things out.  He was a 6 week old, 6 pound, preemie baby with FOUR broken bones.....2 legs and 2 ribs.  The CPS worker said it was the hardest case he had ever done as he didn't want to remove the child as he didnt' think the parents had hurt him BUT they needed him safe while they figured it out as the risk of leaving a 6 pound baby in a home with 4 broken bones was just too great.  The baby was with us a few weeks and then went home.  It wasn't the parents but someone else that had access to the baby.  Once that was determined and a safety plan in place the baby went home.

 

We have had children who were left home alone before they were a year old (and not just 5 minutes while mom ran next door for a cup of sugar either), kids home when bio parents tried to commit suicide, kids with severe medical neglect---tube fed kid not being fed regularly and had moldy equipment, kids repeatedly wandering the streets for hours---at ages 1 and 3, kids with human bite marks from an adult, kids in drug homes, and on and on.

 

 

Just awful to think of children having to go through all of that. What's sad is that the Naugler's would point to stories like that and say that CPS should worry about kids in situations like that and leave them alone. But they wouldn't see that their kids are neglected and poorly cared for just as much as many of those kids.

[intothefray]

I am sorry for those of you who have had CPS scares.

 

As a foster parent one day our adopted daughter ran outside to meet the CPS worker with a huge black eye and cut under her eye.  She was about 4 at the time.  They NEVER even asked what happened to her or why she had a black eye, etc. as they handed 3 more kids to me.  That was a time I was worried they might ask.  She had fallen UP the steps in our garage.  They were the metal grating ones like used in industry.

 

In over 110 cases that have come through our house only 1 has been questionable and he should have stayed with his parents.  The CPS worker KNEW this but also knew he couldn't leave him there until they figured things out.  He was a 6 week old, 6 pound, preemie baby with FOUR broken bones.....2 legs and 2 ribs.  The CPS worker said it was the hardest case he had ever done as he didn't want to remove the child as he didnt' think the parents had hurt him BUT they needed him safe while they figured it out as the risk of leaving a 6 pound baby in a home with 4 broken bones was just too great.  The baby was with us a few weeks and then went home.  It wasn't the parents but someone else that had access to the baby.  Once that was determined and a safety plan in place the baby went home.

 

We have had children who were left home alone before they were a year old (and not just 5 minutes while mom ran next door for a cup of sugar either), kids home when bio parents tried to commit suicide, kids with severe medical neglect---tube fed kid not being fed regularly and had moldy equipment, kids repeatedly wandering the streets for hours---at ages 1 and 3, kids with human bite marks from an adult, kids in drug homes, and on and on.

 

That severely breaks my heart. I've had a stillbirth and that has made me very overprotective of my kids. I would go Mama Bear on anyone who ever dares tries to hurt them. I couldn't even read Angela's Ashes after reading about the twins because it hurt so much. People should NOT have kids if they can't/won't take care of them. :(

 

[imagine.more]

I am rather shocked that neither the CPS workers nor the first doctor knew about Mongolian Spots. They are rather common birth marks, I have family members who have them. More common in people with some racial and ethnic backgrounds than others, but it upsets me a lot to think that people responsible for the health and well being of children would not be familiar with them.

 

I'm so sorry for what you went through.

I never heard of Mongolian Spots until DS was born. I was so confused thinking it was a bruise from the birth?? It totally looked like a big bruise on his butt/lower back. Luckily we were in AZ and the pediatrician was familiar with it and said it was common in different ethnic groups, though she looked at me funny when I insisted I was just caucasian. Turns out I'm part Native American and never knew until 2 years after that...hence the dark features. My mom always just said it must be from the french side of the family. Anyway, I am so thankful we had DS in AZ and not later when we lived in super-white MN where I got asked if his name was something "from my culture". Lol!

 

So I can see how a social worker might confuse a MS for a bruise, but I would hope any social worker would educate themselves on it and do due diligence before going any further than a simple visit! Any pediatrician could confirm, and MS take like 2 years to go away so they're obviously not a bruise if you watch it for a few weeks and see it doesn't change.

[Tanaqui]

I would hope any social worker would educate themselves on it and do due diligence before going any further than a simple visit!

 

Well, just to tone this down, they didn't remove the child. And had it come to that, they clearly weren't going to place the kid with foster parents either - they simply asked mom to find somebody else to watch the kid for a period. Given that they'd been called in about specific abuse allegations (which were fictitious, but child services didn't know that), that's not hugely unreasonable.

 

I get that this is really scary and traumatizing when you're in the situation, and I don't want to minimize how upset the previous poster must feel, but on the grand scale of CPS overreach this rates, like, a 1/2 of a star. Out of ten.