NOOOOOO!

[ChocolateReignRemix]

That's great. I wish they had that everywhere. I should have said "generally" and "probably". I've heard of some counties and public private partnerships piloting programs. It's a huge problem for people navigating the legal system blindly because they can't afford a family law attorney. And pro bono family law is very difficult to obtain in most places.

 

Well I was only referencing cases involving CPS. Child custody and other family law cases do not get representation.

[mamaraby]

They have an attorney. I've seen him referenced in the news articles and in the news videos back in May. He's chosen not to comment to the news media in those cases.

[Mergath]

 

I don't know if this was posted, if so, I missed it. Five part video tour of the property. I had no idea there was this much trash on the property! Regardless of where it came from, it's a huge task to get it cleaned up. She mentions that things need to be bulldozed but says bulldozers cost money and that's why it hasn't been done. Seems like it's time to go ahead and rent one, since they've got the GFM money.

 

Why the heck would they need a bulldozer to clean up the broken walls and whatnot? A few days with a shovel and one of those big roll-off garbage things ought to do it, and then I'm sure they could find a scrap collector to come get the frame.

 

Oh, but silly me, that would be work and of course that's not going to happen.

[Corraleno]

Two people who have dealt with the family court judge who is handling the Nauglers' custody case have described her as "hardcore" and "a tough cookie" who doesn't put up with any BS and and who is known for providing parents with the "come to Jesus moment" they need. I would love to be a fly on the wall in that courtroom if Nicole starts motor-mouthing about her "constitutional rights" to this judge! 

 

Also, Sheriff Todd Pate is a local hero there for going above & beyond the call of duty to rescue a 6 yr old boy from horrific child abuse. If the Nauglers think that the judges in both the criminal and family courts are going to side with two uncooperative lunatics, with no ties to the local area, who have posted anti-government rants all over the net, against a well liked and highly respected local Sheriff, they're in for a big surprise.

[Corraleno]

Here's a video of Sheriff Todd Pate on Oprah in 2011, talking about how he rescued Clayton (who was 6 when he was rescued, and a teen when he was on Oprah).

 

The background is that Clayton and his 16 yr old his stepsister lived in Indiana with his father and her mother. Clayton was horrifically abused (locked in a closet for days at a time, tied with chains, smeared with feces, his father would pee on him, they put dish soap in his mouth if he cried for help). The stepsister ran away from home and was picked up in Kentucky by Sheriff Pate. She begged not to be sent home, and told him about Clayton. He reported it to CPS in Indiana, but someone tipped the family off, so they cleaned up Clayton and told him that if he said everything was fine that they would let him ride his bike. :( So CPS cleared them. 

 

However, Pate believed the sister, so he told the parents that he would not release her unless they came to Kentucky and picked her up in person, hoping they would bring Clayton and he could interview the boy himself. The ruse worked, they brought Clayton, Pate interviewed him and found that the stories were true. The parents were convicted of child abuse and Clayton was adopted by an aunt who loved him.

 

This is from an article about the case (the part about the post-it note just kills me):

When Clayton's story became national news, Sheriff Pate received letters from all over the country calling him a hero. At the time, he told a reporter, "I don't know if I'll ever accomplish anything else in my life. But even if I don't, I will always know I accomplished this." 

 

To this day, Sheriff Pate still has the note little Clayton wrote to him over 10 years ago when he was rescued. He shows it to Clayton when they are reunited for the first time on Oprah's stage. "A few days after you were rescued, I got this in the mail," he says. "Inside is a Post-it Note that says, 'Dear Todd: You are nice. From Clayton.'"

 

Clayton says he never forgot the officer who saved his life. "He was a big example for me and a big role model for me when I was young," he says. "My dream is to become a police officer to help people just like me. People who can't defend themselves. Todd Pate, he had a big impact on my life."

 

 Yeah, this is the guy the Nauglers are accusing of beating up a poor pregnant woman and stealing her children. Oh, and he's the same guy they said they were worried would sexually abuse Olivia if they let him interview her alone when she ran away. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mimm]

Wow. That story brought me to tears. And made me think even more poorly of the Nicole and Joe, if that's even possible at this point.

[Mimm]

Why the heck would they need a bulldozer to clean up the broken walls and whatnot? A few days with a shovel and one of those big roll-off garbage things ought to do it, and then I'm sure they could find a scrap collector to come get the frame.

 

Oh, but silly me, that would be work and of course that's not going to happen.

 

I don't know. I was going to comment on that, but I'm not too good with tools and thought perhaps I was misunderstanding what a bulldozer is. If that was on my property and someone came along and said, "Yep, you need a bulldozer" I'd totally go for it.

[LucyStoner]

Here's a video of Sheriff Todd Pate on Oprah in 2011, talking about how he rescued Clayton (who was 6 when he was rescued, and a teen when he was on Oprah).

 

The background is that Clayton and 16 yr old his stepsister lived in Indiana with his father and her mother. Clayton was horrifically abused (locked in a closet for days at a time, tied with chains, smeared with feces, his father would pee on him, they put dish soap in his mouth if he cried for help). The stepsister ran away from home and was picked up in Kentucky by Sheriff Pate. She begged not to be sent home, and told him about Clayton. He reported it to CPS in Indiana, but someone tipped the family off, so they cleaned up Clayton and told him that if he said everything was fine that they would let him ride his bike. :( So CPS cleared them.

 

However, Pate believed the sister, so he told the parents that he would not release her unless they came to Kentucky and picked her up in person, hoping they would bring Clayton and he could interview the boy himself. The ruse worked, they brought Clayton, Pate interviewed him and found that the stories were true. The parents were convicted of child abuse and Clayton was adopted by an aunt who loved him.

 

This is from an article about the case (the part about the post-it note just kills me):

 

Yeah, this is the guy the Nauglers are accusing of beating up a poor pregnant woman and stealing her children. Oh, and he's the same guy they said they were worried would sexually abuse Olivia if they let him interview her alone when she ran away.

It's a relief to find at least something to restore one's faith in humanity on a thread about the Nauglers. What a great officer.

[Heather in VA]

Oh good grief.... they have their own hashtag now.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Oh good grief.... they have their own hashtag now.

what is it?  And please explain to this old person what that means to have their own hashtag.  I mean, I know it's a Twitter thing, right?  

[mamakelly]

And what in the world is happening with the Nasty FB page? I'm so confused.

[Heather in VA]

A hastag is a # followed by a word/words that serves as an identifier or rallying cry for a particular topic. I don't have twitter but I saw it on their FB page. It's #   KY   10. I'm putting spaces so it won't show up in searches for that hashtag. And she's posted that symbol inside a photo of the state of Kentucky with the word REUNITE above it. So basically she's calling her kids the Kentucky10 and we are supposed to be spreading that hashtag to help reunite them.

 

Personally I think it would be more helpful to secure safe, clean housing and water to help more toward reuniting them but I guess a hashtag is good too :-)

 

I have no idea about the Nasty FB page. 

[Heatherwith4]

I was wondering about the Nasty page, too. I unliked it, because it seems like there's only going to be drama.

[Word Nerd]

And what in the world is happening with the Nasty FB page? I'm so confused.

 

It looks like they gave admin privileges to someone they shouldn't have, and that person is on a power trip and is deleting posts and tearing down the page. 

[Heather in VA]

I've been following the Naugler Report instead. It seems to be trying to avoid the drama. But really there is plenty at the Blessed page and Nicole's page. She just doesn't see that the stuff she posts is bad so she shares when she shouldn't. 

 

Here's my 'you have got to be kidding me' post for the day. Someone posted that reunification isn't in the children's best interest unless they aren't going to live in squalor. A supporter posted that kids just want to be with their parents and they don't care about dirt or real houses. There there was a call to have the original person banned. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

A hastag is a # followed by a word/words that serves as an identifier or rallying cry for a particular topic. I don't have twitter but I saw it on their FB page. It's #   KY   10. I'm putting spaces so it won't show up in searches for that hashtag. And she's posted that symbol inside a photo of the state of Kentucky with the word REUNITE above it. So basically she's calling her kids the Kentucky10 and we are supposed to be spreading that hashtag to help reunite them.

 

Personally I think it would be more helpful to secure safe, clean housing and water to help more toward reuniting them but I guess a hashtag is good too :-)

 

I have no idea about the Nasty FB page. 

Ah, a way to label them as needing freedom, like the Siberian Seven (anyone else remember them?  they fled to a US embassy to ask for assylum).  

[Corraleno]

And what in the world is happening with the Nasty FB page? I'm so confused.

 

If you've ever wondered what psychopaths are like when they're in middle school... now you know.

 

The Naugler "supporters" are convinced that there is a huge conspiracy to frame Joe & Nicole and that the people who ran, and posted on, the Nasty page work for social services and are influencing the judge. Because of course judges are totally swayed by FB drama.  :001_rolleyes:

 

Anyway, one of the people who was either an admin there or was PMing an admin, worked for a private company in another county that helps train foster care workers. Not exactly an "inside job." But by connecting the dots (or, in this case, dot), they think they have the smoking gun that proves their tinfoil-hat theories. So now that they've gotten access to the admin controls on Nasty, they are trying to get the real names, addresses, and personal info of the Nasty admins and anyone who was PMing admins, and they are also hacking into personal FB accounts and threatening people. They actually called CPS on one woman, who luckily had saved the threatening messages and was able to show CPS that it was a revenge call. 

 

These people are seriously unhinged.

 

[Corraleno]

As for the "threats" mentioned in this post by Nicole on BLH:

 

Due to threats, hostility and aggression from supporters and sympathizers of the sheriffs dept and the unwillingness of the sherrifs department to clarify any information on their public FB page or regulate the threats and bullying, it was advised to us to find a safer place to stay.

 

 

​She is referring to posts by locals, two of whom are women from her previous church, who posted positive reviews on the Breckinridge County Sheriff Dept page, which has been spammed by Nauglerheads calling them criminals and kidnappers. Nicole then commented on their posts, saying that if they didn't know her or her family then they had no idea what was really going on. They then proceeded to tell her how they knew her, and Nicole continued to make snide comments, saying they had no proof, to which one woman (who appears to be the wife of the bishop that Joe threatened) said she had copies of all of Joe's threatening text messages regarding her husband and children. So, ironically, all of the "hostility and aggression" that Nicole is complaining about refers to facts that were posted in direct response to her questions.

 

Nicole just can NOT stay off FB or refrain from hitting back at anyone and everyone she perceives as "out to get her." And now she's complaining that it's so unfair that the Sheriff's Dept, which her out-of-state supporters have been spamming and trolling for weeks, won't delete posts from locals who actually know her and were answering her own questions! And they're so scared by this that they had to move into an $80/night hotel for their own safety.

[idnib]

If you've ever wondered what psychopaths are like when they're in middle school... now you know.

 

The Naugler "supporters" are convinced that there is a huge conspiracy to frame Joe & Nicole and that the people who ran, and posted on, the Nasty page work for social services and are influencing the judge. Because of course judges are totally swayed by FB drama.  :001_rolleyes:

 

Anyway, one of the people who was either an admin there or was PMing an admin, worked for a private company in another county that helps train foster care workers. Not exactly an "inside job." But by connecting the dots (or, in this case, dot), they think they have the smoking gun that proves their tinfoil-hat theories. So now that they've gotten access to the admin controls on Nasty, they are trying to get the real names, addresses, and personal info of the Nasty admins and anyone who was PMing admins, and they are also hacking into personal FB accounts and threatening people. They actually called CPS on one woman, who luckily had saved the threatening messages and was able to show CPS that it was a revenge call. 

 

These people are seriously unhinged.

 

I put on my hazmat suit and headed over there. I do not believe I've ever seen such immaturity from a large number of adults in one place.

[Heather in VA]

So what exactly would the motivation be to frame Joe and Nicole? 

[Jean in Newcastle]

So what exactly would the motivation be to frame Joe and Nicole? 

We're jealous of their idyllic lifestyle and off-the-grid savviness.  Plus, we've been infected by the govt. koolaid probably administered in our vaccines.  

[Heather in VA]

We're jealous of their idyllic lifestyle and off-the-grid savviness.  Plus, we've been infected by the govt. koolaid probably administered in our vaccines.  

 

Ahhh yes.... how stupid of me to forget. Plus I just remembered that since apparently these people who are framing them are from social services they are probably doing it to make sure they can sell the kids. 10 perfect children will bring the government big money in the foster care system.

[Mimm]

If you've ever wondered what psychopaths are like when they're in middle school... now you know.

 

The Naugler "supporters" are convinced that there is a huge conspiracy to frame Joe & Nicole and that the people who ran, and posted on, the Nasty page work for social services and are influencing the judge. Because of course judges are totally swayed by FB drama.  :001_rolleyes:

 

Anyway, one of the people who was either an admin there or was PMing an admin, worked for a private company in another county that helps train foster care workers. Not exactly an "inside job." But by connecting the dots (or, in this case, dot), they think they have the smoking gun that proves their tinfoil-hat theories. So now that they've gotten access to the admin controls on Nasty, they are trying to get the real names, addresses, and personal info of the Nasty admins and anyone who was PMing admins, and they are also hacking into personal FB accounts and threatening people. They actually called CPS on one woman, who luckily had saved the threatening messages and was able to show CPS that it was a revenge call. 

 

These people are seriously unhinged.

 

Frame them for what?? Living in squalor? Being hostile and uncooperative with the police? They aren't denying that, they've got it splashed all over Facebook and youtube and I've lost track of how many blogs. They don't call it squalor and they claim they're being cooperative, but it's not exactly hard to see the truth here. ETA: I'm not arguing with you, just absolutely flabbergasted at what those nut jobs come up with every day. ;)

 

I think Nicole has an addiction to social media, which isn't a huge thing, I know plenty of people that do. But in her case, it really does her no favors. And it sounds like her supporters are getting some kind of excitement about being involved in the drama in a risk free way.

[Mimm]

Ahhh yes.... how stupid of me to forget. Plus I just remembered that since apparently these people who are framing them are from social services they are probably doing it to make sure they can sell the kids. 10 perfect children will bring the government big money in the foster care system.

 

Are people unaware of how much it costs to have children in the foster care system? Even when they're adopted, states pay out monthly subsidies to adoptive families. I know you probably know this, but I'm confused as to how anyone could ever make this claim.

[Heather in VA]

Are people unaware of how much it costs to have children in the foster care system? Even when they're adopted, states pay out monthly subsidies to adoptive families. I know you probably know this, but I'm confused as to how anyone could ever make this claim.

 

Oh my - I was being sarcastic. I definitely know it's completely stupid to think the foster care system is stealing children but these wackjobs actually think that. Ugh. I don't get it either. The foster care system is expensive and no one makes money, not the state, not the foster parents... no one. The foster system is far from perfect. Yes there are abuses of the system and abuses of the kids in the system. But it not the norm and not the objective. 

 

I think in general those who are still supporting the Nauglers are off their rocker or so stupid they are clueless. At the beginning they had a lot of supporters who initially bought the idea that they were being targeted for their unusual lifestyle and their homeschooling. But the vast majority of those people looked at the pictures and read Nicole's posts and realized it just wasn't that simple. All that are left now are those as crazy as Nicole. 

[hornblower]

This isn't related to the Nauglers but a few years ago I read the claim that caucasian children are specifically very valuable to cps. I rather suspect this racist thinking is not far removed from some of the comments made by some Naugler supporters.

[Guest]

Regarding the Nasty page, a person supporting the Nauglers conned the page owner into giving him admin rights??  Is that what happened? 

[Word Nerd]

Regarding the Nasty page, a person supporting the Nauglers conned the page owner into giving him admin rights??  Is that what happened? 

 

Pretty much.

[gardenmom5]

I don't think that they can possibly have a very good lawyer. Any decent lawyer would have immediately wanted them to take down these videos and blogs and lay low.

 

 

There aren't public defenders available for family law cases. They have to pay someone or represent themselves or get a volunteer.

 

If they have a public defender it would be for the criminal charges like harrassing the neighbor and resisting arrest.

 

I think it's irrelevant whether the state is providing them a public defender or they're paying one in regards to how they will accept any advice.  after all- lawyers work for "the system" and "the system" is corrupt and out to get them.  I can't imagine them taking advice that would require them to change their behavior.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

This isn't related to the Nauglers but a few years ago I read the claim that caucasian children are specifically very valuable to cps. I rather suspect this racist thinking is not far removed from some of the comments made by some Naugler supporters.

Some of their supporters said exactly that in very clear terms.

[Butter]

So what exactly would the motivation be to frame Joe and Nicole? 

 

Obviously because they are the most amazing parents ever with the best behaved kids ever.  I mean, why else would CPS take their kids?  They only want the best so they can adopt them out (sell them), right?

 

(The fact that there are people in this world who are crazy enough to believe that kind of scare me.)

[Heather in VA]

 

(The fact that there are people in this world who are crazy enough to believe that kind of scare me.)

 

It's absolutely terrifying

[mom2scouts]

As for the "threats" mentioned in this post by Nicole on BLH:

 

 

 

​She is referring to posts by locals, two of whom are women from her previous church, who posted positive reviews on the Breckinridge County Sheriff Dept page, which has been spammed by Nauglerheads calling them criminals and kidnappers. Nicole then commented on their posts, saying that if they didn't know her or her family then they had no idea what was really going on. They then proceeded to tell her how they knew her, and Nicole continued to make snide comments, saying they had no proof, to which one woman (who appears to be the wife of the bishop that Joe threatened) said she had copies of all of Joe's threatening text messages regarding her husband and children. So, ironically, all of the "hostility and aggression" that Nicole is complaining about refers to facts that were posted in direct response to her questions.

 

Nicole just can NOT stay off FB or refrain from hitting back at anyone and everyone she perceives as "out to get her." And now she's complaining that it's so unfair that the Sheriff's Dept, which her out-of-state supporters have been spamming and trolling for weeks, won't delete posts from locals who actually know her and were answering her own questions! And they're so scared by this that they had to move into an $80/night hotel for their own safety.

 

I saw this yesterday and kept thinking that the Sheriff was letting this go on because they are logging all this information to use against the Nauglers.  Nicole is not smart enough to know that she is hurting her chances of ever getting her kids back because she can't stop arguing online.  At first I thought that the FB page wasn't very active and they didn't notice, but someone from the sheriff's department has responded to positive posts, so they are watching.

[idnib]

I saw this yesterday and kept thinking that the Sheriff was letting this go on because they are logging all this information to use against the Nauglers.  

 

But they don't have the right to stop her anyway.

[Guest]

But they don't have the right to stop her anyway.

On their own FB page? I think they do.

[SproutMamaK]

I tried to see the FB page and it tells me it's no longer available. Has it been taken down?

[Heather in VA]

When I went to the Nasty FB page this morning there was a long, rambling post from some guy named Stewie I think who basically said 'Ha Ha we won and now I'm turning off the page'. So I'm assuming he did. He sounded quite mature (sarcasm font needed here).

 

As far as the comments on the Sheriff page, I'm pretty sure they are loving it. Nicole just continues to provide ample evidence of her instability and it only shows the sheriff and the CPS is better and better light the more she does it. So I'm sure they are thinking... post away.

[Jean in Newcastle]

When I went to the Nasty FB page this morning there was a long, rambling post from some guy named Stewie I think who basically said 'Ha Ha we won and now I'm turning off the page'. So I'm assuming he did. He sounded quite mature (sarcasm font needed here).

 

As far as the comments on the Sheriff page, I'm pretty sure they are loving it. Nicole just continues to provide ample evidence of her instability and it only shows the sheriff and the CPS is better and better light the more she does it. So I'm sure they are thinking... post away.

OK I don't understand the Nasty FB thing.  I mean it is on FB right?  So is it FB who gave admin rights to someone?  Or the person who started the page to begin with?  Why would you start a FB page for one purpose but then let someone else run it?  Esp. someone who is against it?  

[Word Nerd]

OK I don't understand the Nasty FB thing.  I mean it is on FB right?  So is it FB who gave admin rights to someone?  Or the person who started the page to begin with?  Why would you start a FB page for one purpose but then let someone else run it?  Esp. someone who is against it?  

 

From what I can gather, the page owners got tricked by a Naugler supporter pretending to be on the Nasty people's side. Or something. It still makes no sense that they would willingly turn over the page admin rights to someone else.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why can't the page owners kick out the bad admin?  

[Renai]

Oh good grief.... they have their own hashtag now.

 

I remember seeing that hashtag, or at least that "logo" a while back on someone else's profile. 

[Mimm]

Oh my - I was being sarcastic. I definitely know it's completely stupid to think the foster care system is stealing children but these wackjobs actually think that. Ugh. I don't get it either. The foster care system is expensive and no one makes money, not the state, not the foster parents... no one. The foster system is far from perfect. Yes there are abuses of the system and abuses of the kids in the system. But it not the norm and not the objective. 

 

I think in general those who are still supporting the Nauglers are off their rocker or so stupid they are clueless. At the beginning they had a lot of supporters who initially bought the idea that they were being targeted for their unusual lifestyle and their homeschooling. But the vast majority of those people looked at the pictures and read Nicole's posts and realized it just wasn't that simple. All that are left now are those as crazy as Nicole. 

 

Oh I know. I'm just confused that anyone would believe that. :)

[Corraleno]

Why can't the page owners kick out the bad admin?  

 

The original page owner decided she didn't want to deal with the drama anymore and inadvertently turned over the controls to one of the people who is at the very center of all the drama. The original page owner no longer has access — "Stewie" is the new page owner.

[idnib]

On their own FB page? I think they do.

 

I'm so confused. I thought you meant on her own FB page. Sorry.

[Renai]

The original page owner decided she didn't want to deal with the drama anymore and inadvertently turned over the controls to one of the people who is at the very center of all the drama. The original page owner no longer has access — "Stewie" is the new page owner.

 

Looks like it's shut down again.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I had mixed feelings about the Nasty site.  Some things seemed gratuitously mean-spirited but yet they did a good job chronicling a lot of stuff.  

[Tanaqui]

 

This isn't related to the Nauglers but a few years ago I read the claim that caucasian children are specifically very valuable to cps. I rather suspect this racist thinking is not far removed from some of the comments made by some Naugler supporters.

 

I find that hard to believe. It seems more likely that, in our society, the benefit of the doubt flows TOWARDS white parents, same as it does in the justice system.  And we do know that impoverished people actually *are* at risk (relatively speaking) for excessive CPS intervention... and that non-whites are disproportionately likely to be under the poverty line.

 

Of course, this group supporting the Nauglers probably doesn't accept any of that.

 

[Renai]

This isn't related to the Nauglers but a few years ago I read the claim that caucasian children are specifically very valuable to cps. I rather suspect this racist thinking is not far removed from some of the comments made by some Naugler supporters.

 

I've actually read something similar, but it was more that more people wanted to adopt white babies than non-white babies or children.

[Heather in VA]

The kids aren't going home (not a huge surprise) and now the next court date is July 13th. I'm not sure what happened to the June 18th date or if that was superseded by the court appearance last week. Nicole posted on BLH about it today and for the first time she sounds really upset and defeated. She still uses the term 'taken' as if the kids were kidnapped but the rest of the post is not as full of rhetoric as they have been in the past. Maybe she's starting to see some reality.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The comments of supporters are still full of rhetoric.