NOOOOOO!

[Spryte]

Is this when people said that Olivia was trying to run away?  Is it clear that she truly was trying to run away?  

 

Same question here.  

 

I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the videos. so sorry if it's addressed in the video.  

[Χά�ων]

Is this when people said that Olivia was trying to run away?  Is it clear that she truly was trying to run away?  

 

I think this is what people were talking about when they mentioned that she ran away. But I did not hear anything about her running away in the video. Though she really did not talk much. Nicole said at first that she was out for a walk and that she frequently went for walks on their 28 acres. Towards the end Joe says she was not supposed to be out that way and was punished. Nicole later says they restricted her privileges, but I wonder if she said that so they would not be asked what kind of punishment they used. 

[Corraleno]

Is this when people said that Olivia was trying to run away?  Is it clear that she truly was trying to run away?  

 

People who know the family have referred to it as running away. In the video, after a pause, Nicole responds to the sheriff by saying "She went for a walk, she likes to do that, we have 28 acres, she was just going for a walk," but she doesn't explain why, if they have 28 acres, Olivia was walking along the road (and according to some reports she was a mile away from the property), and she refuses to let them question Olivia about it. 

 

Also, at one point there was a post on BLH, which the Nauglers deleted, saying "Hey, Nicole, why don't you tell everybody the reason Olivia gave for running away?" So I assume that some people knew about the incident, and what the reason was, and felt that the reason would not be flattering to the Nauglers.

[Heather in VA]

I think this is what people were talking about when they mentioned that she ran away. But I did not hear anything about her running away in the video. Though she really did not talk much. Nicole said at first that she was out for a walk and that she frequently went for walks on their 28 acres. Towards the end Joe says she was not supposed to be out that way and was punished. Nicole later says they restricted her privileges, but I wonder if she said that so they would not be asked what kind of punishment they used. 

 

She's talking out of both sides ... either Olivia's allowed to walk wherever she wants and the officers had no right to tell her there was a concern about the situation or Olivia shouldn't have been walking down there, they punished her (in an acceptable manner or not) and they should be glad the officer brought her home. 

[TeenagerMom]

She's talking out of both sides ... either Olivia's allowed to walk wherever she wants and the officers had no right to tell her there was a concern about the situation or Olivia shouldn't have been walking down there, they punished her (in an acceptable manner or not) and they should be glad the officer brought her home.

Except an officer didn't bring her home. A complete stranger picked her up, called the police, and drove her home.

[Heather in VA]

Except an officer didn't bring her home. A complete stranger picked her up, called the police, and drove her home.

 

That is a really lucky stranger. I'm surprised Nicole and Joe didn't file charges with them for "kidnapping".

 

I tried to watch the video but she was so offensive I couldn't get more than a couple minutes into it.

[maize]

Maybe the reason the video cuts off when it does and there is no part four is that the reasons behind Olivia's decision to leave the property would have been in the next segment.

[Heather in VA]

Maybe the reason the video cuts off when it does and there is no part four is that the reasons behind Olivia's decision to leave the property would have been in the next segment.

 

It's terrifying to think that there is something on the video they don't want people to see. What must that be if they are ok with us seeing this video.

[LucyStoner]

These poor children.

 

I am so glad they aren't with their parents. I seriously hope the never have to go back.

[Word Nerd]

Where did the Nauglers originally post the video(s)? I wonder if seeing their explanation or introduction to the video might shed some light on what they thought people would take away from the incident besides the fact that they are combative, unreasonable, and disrespectful.

 

Then again, it likely wouldn't make any more sense even if I did know their twisted reasoning.

[Magnolia Rain]

Where did the Nauglers originally post the video(s)? I wonder if seeing their explanation or introduction to the video might shed some light on what they thought people would take away from the incident besides the fact that they are combative, unreasonable, and disrespectful.

 

Then again, it likely wouldn't make any more sense even if I did know their twisted reasoning.

From what I read, Nicole posted the videos yesterday to *another* FB account called Momm A Nicole. Apparently it is an account that she frequently deactivates and activates to post her "proof" against the County Sheriff. This one was posted in supposed defense for why "Homestead Hubby" is not working. If you listen, several times she says she hopes that his leaving to confront the officers doesn't result in the loss of his job. The nut job supporters view it as targeting of the family by the sheriff.

 

Interestingly, the FB profile and comments disappeared when some of her more staunch supporters questioned why on earth they would behave so irrationally. The videos currently posted were copied and uploaded by someone who must have seen them when they were briefly available yesterday.

 

The more I see of the Nauglers and their behavior, the more I hope those children will never again be subjected to that insanity.

[Heather in VA]

These foster families must be going through hell with these kids, especially the oldest ones. They have been trained to be combative and fight authority. Even her more benign comments... she tells one of the kids to go back inside (where were they living when they had an inside) and then says 'unless you want to come out here and talk to the police officer' with the same tone you'd use to say 'unless you want to be punished'. That is just telling the kids that the police are bad no matter what. People like this must be terrifying for the cops as well. Whose to say they aren't going to whip out a gun and go crazy. Kudos to the sheriff for staying calm and controlled. I would have told them they are looney tunes.

[Renai]

 

Have we heard if anyone has managed to get the money they've donated back?

 

Yes.

[Spryte]

These foster families must be going through hell with these kids, especially the oldest ones. They have been trained to be combative and fight authority. Even her more benign comments... she tells one of the kids to go back inside (where were they living when they had an inside) and then says 'unless you want to come out here and talk to the police officer' with the same tone you'd use to say 'unless you want to be punished'. That is just telling the kids that the police are bad no matter what. People like this must be terrifying for the cops as well. Whose to say they aren't going to whip out a gun and go crazy. Kudos to the sheriff for staying calm and controlled. I would have told them they are looney tunes.

 

Yes, I keep thinking about the families with whom the kids are placed.  Those must be some confused kids.  And foster parenting them can't be easy.  I hope they are with great, understanding, caring families who have nerves of steel and soft hearts to love those kids, no matter what.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I watched only the first one...

 

The more I see of them, the more I am convinced that they are complete nutters. And, sad to say, the more I'm hoping they don't get any of those kids back any time soon.

In the third video they turned it to a sexual thing! The parents wouldn't let the kid speak with the police because they didn't want her sexually assaulted.

[Heather in VA]

In the third video they turned it to a sexual thing! The parents wouldn't let the kid speak with the police because they didn't want her sexually assaulted.

 

Ok - let me get this straight.... A 7 year old wandering alone a mile or more from home is fine. She won't get assaulted, hurt, kidnapped etc. But the cop standing in their front yard with the parents there as well, even if they are out of ear shot, is going to sexually assault her in front of everyone????

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Ok - let me get this straight.... A 7 year old wandering alone a mile or more from home is fine. She won't get assaulted, hurt, kidnapped etc. But the cop standing in their front yard with the parents there as well, even if they are out of ear shot, is going to sexually assault her in front of everyone????

Yup. That was basically the back and forth between parents and officer (sherif?).

[Heather in VA]

Ugh - I finally made it through the first one but it was just awful. I don't know if I can watch the rest especially knowing they went there with the argument. This was a long confrontation. These videos are posted on the Naugler Report FB page as well. One of the commenters mentions how patient and calm the sheriff is and implies he is the same one who had to go to serve the custody warrant when CPS took the kids. I really feel for that man. 

[Corraleno]

These foster families must be going through hell with these kids, especially the oldest ones. They have been trained to be combative and fight authority. Even her more benign comments... she tells one of the kids to go back inside (where were they living when they had an inside) and then says 'unless you want to come out here and talk to the police officer' with the same tone you'd use to say 'unless you want to be punished'. That is just telling the kids that the police are bad no matter what. People like this must be terrifying for the cops as well. Whose to say they aren't going to whip out a gun and go crazy. Kudos to the sheriff for staying calm and controlled. I would have told them they are looney tunes.

 

I'm not so sure they've totally bought into their parents' craziness. Someone said that when Sheriff Pate arrested her, Jacob and Quinton not only did as they were asked and got into the police car without any resistance, but that Jacob told his mother she was just making things worse. 

 

I actually find Jacob's situation the most heartbreaking. He was 3 when Alex left, so at best he saw what was happening to Alex and at worst he was a victim himself. He has been dragged all over the country, never allowed to stay in one place long enough to make real friends or establish ties. When they were living in the old farmhouse, and the local LDS church was taking care of the family, Jacob was really involved in Scouts and various church activities, and he was really proud of having been made a Deacon in the church. There are lots of photos of him on her old blog and he looks so happy. I think the 18 months or so they spent there, when they had a nice big house and adequate food, was probably the most stability they'd had for a while, and obviously he felt like part of the community there.

 

Then his parents had to totally piss off and alienate everyone to the point they were kicked out of the church, lost their home, and had to start over in a new ward. So then Nicole was posting that Jacob didn't seem as enthusiastic about scouts or church as he used to be, and I think he probably just gave up. What's the point of putting in so much time and energy, trying to set down roots in a community, when you know your crazy parents will just screw it up and you'll be yanked away and have to start over again?

 

Someone commented that Jacob does all the building and all the hard physical work (clearing brush, widening the driveway, building the "cabin" and the furniture), and that he seems so much older than his years, and someone else said "Yeah, Jacob is the husband Nicole never had" and that just brought tears to my eyes. Especially in light of the fact that Nicole mentioned wanting to build a separate little cabin on the property for him, since he's almost an adult — she obviously expects him to just stay there and keep taking care of her and Joe and all the other kids, since the actual "parents" have the emotional maturity of 8 year olds.  :crying:

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that some of the older kids are cooperating, at least to some extent. Like they may be smart enough not to mention it if Joe is smoking weed, while still acknowledging that they were really cold and hungry last winter and liked it better when they had an actual house.

[Farrar]

I just came back to this thread thinking, what more could their possibly be, what could have happened else! I clearly underestimated their ability to churn up the drama - even if it's old drama.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I'm not so sure they've totally bought into their parents' craziness. Someone said that when Sheriff Pate arrested her, Jacob and Quinton not only did as they were asked and got into the police car without any resistance, but that Jacob told his mother she was just making things worse. 

 

I actually find Jacob's situation the most heartbreaking. He was 3 when Alex left, so at best he saw what was happening to Alex and at worst he was a victim himself. He has been dragged all over the country, never allowed to stay in one place long enough to make real friends or establish ties. When they were living in the old farmhouse, and the local LDS church was taking care of the family, Jacob was really involved in Scouts and various church activities, and he was really proud of having been made a Deacon in the church. There are lots of photos of him on her old blog and he looks so happy. I think the 18 months or so they spent there, when they had a nice big house and adequate food, was probably the most stability they'd had for a while, and obviously he felt like part of the community there.

 

Then his parents had to totally piss off and alienate everyone to the point they were kicked out of the church, lost their home, and had to start over in a new ward. So then Nicole was posting that Jacob didn't seem as enthusiastic about scouts or church as he used to be, and I think he probably just gave up. What's the point of putting in so much time and energy, trying to set down roots in a community, when you know your crazy parents will just screw it up and you'll be yanked away and have to start over again?

 

Someone commented that Jacob does all the building and all the hard physical work (clearing brush, widening the driveway, building the "cabin" and the furniture), and that he seems so much older than his years, and someone else said "Yeah, Jacob is the husband Nicole never had" and that just brought tears to my eyes. Especially in light of the fact that Nicole mentioned wanting to build a separate little cabin on the property for him, since he's almost an adult — she obviously expects him to just stay there and keep taking care of her and Joe and all the other kids, since the actual "parents" have the emotional maturity of 8 year olds.  :crying:

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that some of the older kids are cooperating, at least to some extent. Like they may be smart enough not to mention it if Joe is smoking weed, while still acknowledging that they were really cold and hungry last winter and liked it better when they had an actual house.

 

That breaks my heart.  Those kids deserve better.

 

[idnib]

I just came back to this thread thinking, what more could their possibly be, what could have happened else! I clearly underestimated their ability to churn up the drama - even if it's old drama.

 

Make you wonder what we haven't seen (yet).

[Heather in VA]

I'm not so sure they've totally bought into their parents' craziness. Someone said that when Sheriff Pate arrested her, Jacob and Quinton not only did as they were asked and got into the police car without any resistance, but that Jacob told his mother she was just making things worse. 

 

I actually find Jacob's situation the most heartbreaking. He was 3 when Alex left, so at best he saw what was happening to Alex and at worst he was a victim himself. He has been dragged all over the country, never allowed to stay in one place long enough to make real friends or establish ties. When they were living in the old farmhouse, and the local LDS church was taking care of the family, Jacob was really involved in Scouts and various church activities, and he was really proud of having been made a Deacon in the church. There are lots of photos of him on her old blog and he looks so happy. I think the 18 months or so they spent there, when they had a nice big house and adequate food, was probably the most stability they'd had for a while, and obviously he felt like part of the community there.

 

Then his parents had to totally piss off and alienate everyone to the point they were kicked out of the church, lost their home, and had to start over in a new ward. So then Nicole was posting that Jacob didn't seem as enthusiastic about scouts or church as he used to be, and I think he probably just gave up. What's the point of putting in so much time and energy, trying to set down roots in a community, when you know your crazy parents will just screw it up and you'll be yanked away and have to start over again?

 

Someone commented that Jacob does all the building and all the hard physical work (clearing brush, widening the driveway, building the "cabin" and the furniture), and that he seems so much older than his years, and someone else said "Yeah, Jacob is the husband Nicole never had" and that just brought tears to my eyes. Especially in light of the fact that Nicole mentioned wanting to build a separate little cabin on the property for him, since he's almost an adult — she obviously expects him to just stay there and keep taking care of her and Joe and all the other kids, since the actual "parents" have the emotional maturity of 8 year olds.  :crying:

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that some of the older kids are cooperating, at least to some extent. Like they may be smart enough not to mention it if Joe is smoking weed, while still acknowledging that they were really cold and hungry last winter and liked it better when they had an actual house.

 

So tragic for these children. I do hope you are right about them not buying into the craziness. It will make things so much easier for them. 

 

Poor Jacob. I hope he is finding some kind of normalcy and stability. 

[Corraleno]

Yes, I keep thinking about the families with whom the kids are placed.  Those must be some confused kids.  And foster parenting them can't be easy.  I hope they are with great, understanding, caring families who have nerves of steel and soft hearts to love those kids, no matter what.

 

I worry most about the middle kids, especially Zachary, who Nicole has admitted is probably autistic. She has posted about him having violent melt-downs where he's totally out of control, often triggered by something trivial, like he was told the little kids could watch a video, and then discovered that one of the older kids is watching, too, or that there's been a change in what they're having for dinner. 

 

Telling an autistic child with very black-&-white thinking that he's being kidnapped, and should not cooperate in any way, is an incredibly selfish and cruel thing to do. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

It still stands out to me that in the audio of Joe telling the kids they were going to be "kidnapped" the next day and removed from the home there was almost no reaction from any of the children.

[Heather in VA]

I wonder if they are just numb to their parents paranoia and are used to Joe or Nicole telling them all the doomsday things that are going to happen to them. Maybe the kids thought they were full of crap, again. 

 

Or maybe they were hoping it was true.

[Rivka]

Corraleno, I have really been appreciating your commentary on this topic. Thank you.

[ktgrok]

I've never heard of a fence around a pond. Are they seriously making them put a fence up around a pond?

 

Yes, but I'm guessing that's because unlike most people, they don't have walls on their house to contain the kids. The rest of the nation can close the door so the toddler doesn't wander into the pond. They don't even have a 4th wall, let alone a door to close or lock. So given that there is no way to contain the toddlers I can understand fencing off the pond.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Yes, but I'm guessing that's because unlike most people, they don't have walls on their house to contain the kids. The rest of the nation can close the door so the toddler doesn't wander into the pond. They don't even have a 4th wall, let alone a door to close or lock. So given that there is no way to contain the toddlers I can understand fencing off the pond.

 

I would imagine the kids roaming free along with being a pool of filth are both good reasons to fence it off.

 

[Corraleno]

It still stands out to me that in the audio of Joe telling the kids they were going to be "kidnapped" the next day and removed from the home there was almost no reaction from any of the children.

 

I wonder if they are just numb to their parents paranoia and are used to Joe or Nicole telling them all the doomsday things that are going to happen to them. Maybe the kids thought they were full of crap, again. 

 

I think the little ones probably had no idea what was going on, and the two oldest were already in custody, so it would be the middles (from Abigail to Olivia) who would be the most likely to react, and they may have been more concerned with being reunited with the older sibs who were their actual caregivers.

 

Also, by their own admission, the Nauglers edited out part of the recording right before Joe tells the kids they're going to be kidnapped. They claim they just took out the part where he was driving, but when the recording starts you can tell that he's home and already talking to the kids, and it sounds like he was yelling at them right before they get quiet. Maybe they're used to all the crazy drama, or maybe he threatened to beat the crap out of them if they didn't sit down and shut up, or (most likely) a combination of both.

[LucyStoner]

Nicole and Joe should be prosecuted for child endangerment. They should serve time. Honestly, I think their parental rights should be terminated.

[chocolatechip]

Sidetrack comment of the day: i seriously hate the term "pet parenting." I saw this at Petsmart. It really irks me.

This!! Maybe it should be called "ownering"? "Mastering/mistressing"? I am not my pet's parent, tyvm.

 

Eta: sorry to sidetrack the thread again. Carry on!

[Spryte]

Nicole and Joe should be prosecuted for child endangerment. They should serve time. Honestly, I think their parental rights should be terminated.

I completely agree with this.

[Heatherwith4]

Nicole and Joe should be prosecuted for child endangerment. They should serve time. Honestly, I think their parental rights should be terminated.

I agree.

[Ravin]

I think this is what people were talking about when they mentioned that she ran away. But I did not hear anything about her running away in the video. Though she really did not talk much. Nicole said at first that she was out for a walk and that she frequently went for walks on their 28 acres. Towards the end Joe says she was not supposed to be out that way and was punished. Nicole later says they restricted her privileges, but I wonder if she said that so they would not be asked what kind of punishment they used.

Isn't punishment rather anathema to free ranging children?

[Corraleno]

I haven't watched all of the "Olivia incident" videos, but someone said that in one of the videos, Joe is asked if they are the family that was living in the double-wide, since that family was also named Naugler, and Joe lies and says no, that wasn't them. The mobile home they're referring to is the one the Nauglers had been evicted from a few months prior to this, which they allegedly trashed by smearing feces everywhere and taking a hatchet to the walls, in retaliation for being evicted.

 

The person who originally posted about that incident on the Homeschoolers Anonymous page, said that the sheriff had been called and had taken pictures of the way they left the mobile home, so I hope that's true and they still have those on file. That would provide clear evidence to CPS that the issues go far beyond just needing a fourth wall and a few more beds. They live like animals even when they have a nice house.

[Heather in VA]

I would think they would be able to prove it was them even if Joe lied. Wouldn't that spawn criminal charges as well? It seems that the very government/legal people they are accusing of harassing them has actually given them a lot of leeway and passed on many opportunities to charge them with things.

[Mimm]

In the third video they turned it to a sexual thing! The parents wouldn't let the kid speak with the police because they didn't want her sexually assaulted.

 

Wow. I only watched the first video. They really are just idiots.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Wow. I only watched the first video. They really are just idiots.

Watch the third. It's under 5 minutes.

[MomtoCandJ]

Nicole and Joe should be prosecuted for child endangerment. They should serve time. Honestly, I think their parental rights should be terminated.

Nope my brother's kids mom has three counts each of child neglect, child endangerment and child abuse but she isn't sitting in jail (hasn't served any time at all). It's been 2.5 years and her rights have not been terminated yet either

[Hunter's Moon]

Nicole and Joe should be prosecuted for child endangerment. They should serve time. Honestly, I think their parental rights should be terminated.

Absolutely.

 

Unfortunately, termination of parental rights is very difficult to do. They'll give them every chance possible to get their children back, and then even more.

[Heather in VA]

We both work..we don't take government bribes.... nice quote

[Heather in VA]

Nope my brother's kids mom has three counts each of child neglect, child endangerment and child abuse but she isn't sitting in jail (hasn't served any time at all). It's been 2.5 years and her rights have not been terminated yet either

 

Just sick... I'm so sorry your brother and his kids have to deal with that. I will never understand why abuse of a child isn't jail worthy but abuse of an animal is. 

 

 

PS - not implying abuse of an animal is ok - it's awful but we should protect our children at least as well as we protect animals.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Someone posted on the Blessed Little Homestead page that they are actually staying at a motel (and they gave the name so I assume it is someone local who saw them there) for the past couple of weeks.  So not just at a friend's house. . . .  

[Heather in VA]

And their supporters are claiming they are in a hotel because they are afraid to stay at the homestead from fear that someone will stalk and hurt them. 

[annandatje]

On the facebook page, Truth About The Nauglers, Truth About The Nauglers posted that Mr. Naugler's alleged menacing victim was neither smaller nor older than Mr. Naugler.

 

Per Mr. Naugler's January 2013 mugshot data online, he was supposedly either 5'8" or 6'0", 240 or 250 lbs and 37 years old at the time.

 

Thus, if it is accurate that the person who contacted police is no smaller or older than Mr. Naugler and there have not been substantial changes in Mr. Naugler's dimensions, then the complainant, allegedly a female neighbor, is at least 5'8", possibly 6'0" or more, around or over 250 pounds and younger than 40.

 

Further, if it is true that the mother of the menacing victim was inside the home, logically the mother would have to have been older than her adult child and Mr. Naugler.

 

Wonder if six feet tall 250 pound women are common in the area.

[idnib]

I watched the videos and it turns out I'm a nutter. Who knew? (Don't answer that.)

 

The crux of the video is that the police want to talk to Olivia alone because so she can speak freely. They are not wiling to have her mom there, and they aren't willing to come back later in case the parents get a chance to talk to Olivia first. He used the analogy of an abused woman telling the police everything is okay and the sheriff talking to her alone to see if that's true.

 

Let me say, the Nauglers went about this horribly. They seems to have a gift for escalation and they have many problems. While I generally tend toward reunification, I hope these kids move on.

 

That said, I do see their point. IMO, finding a 7 year old child walking along the road is not grounds to question them about abuse without their parents present. The happens all the time to all kinds of families, including my own when I was young and my brother wandered off and was brought back by a trucker. If my child wandered off I would be forever grateful to the person who returned them, but I would not voluntarily turn my child over for questioning about abuse without my presence. Kids say the craziest things. Last week my 7 year old, who's never ever been spanked, told someone we spank her often. Turns out she didn't even know what spanking means. I completely understand the need to talk to kids who may have been abused outside their parents' presence, I just don't think wandering along the road should precipitate that.

 

I would decline unless I had no right to.  Maybe I don't, I don't know. Of course, I wouldn't go about it the same way they did.

 

The Resident Nutter

[Heather in VA]

I see what you are saying idnib, but I don't think we know everything the sheriff was told that precipitated wanting to speak with Olivia. We know that she was walking alone a mile away from home and was brought home by a stranger who called the police. We know they aren't really well known for their hygiene. We also know this incident has been referred to as the time Olivia ran away. So it's quite possible that when the police were called they were told a young girl who was dirty and possibly hungry looking was picked up a mile from her home and she said she was running away. I think in that case they could have a good reason for wanting to talk to Olivia and make sure she's ok. I also think that had they expressed gratitude that she was returned and acted like normal parents the conversation with Olivia would have been quick and to the point. They wouldn't have a lot of suspicion that there was a problem and wouldn't go looking for it. 

[maize]

Kids can say weird things in interviews. When some friends were going through the adoption process for their third child, their six year old told the social worker that her parents spanked her baby brother. The parents were really puzzled by this until they figured out that she was referring to them patting the baby on the back. They eventually sorted things out but the issue caused a lot of stress and delays.

[LucyStoner]

Isn't punishment rather anathema to free ranging children?

See, it's all about natural consequences.

 

Like the natural consequnces of getting sick because you live in filth and possibly getting hit by a car when you make a break for the road.

 

Seems the kids have been living with the consequnces of the parent's idiocy for their whole lives.