What do you teach your kids about pot/alcohol?

[Susan in TN]

One thing we tell our (older) kids is that sometimes drinking/taking drugs makes it seem easier to get past the awkwardness of being with people and forming friendships/relationships and just "dealing with people". Unfortunately, it can then also prevent those young people from learning how to deal with that awkwardness and be themselves.

[Joanne]

One thing we tell our (older) kids is that sometimes drinking/taking drugs makes it seem easier to get past the awkwardness of being with people and forming friendships/relationships and just "dealing with people". Unfortunately, it can then also prevent those young people from learning how to deal with that awkwardness and be themselves.

 

I think it is absolutely vital to be honest with kids about why drugs/alcohol are attractive and the fun effects. Along with ongoing talks about consent, risk, actual physical impact, risk of addiction, addiction co-factors, the over-use and situational abuse of certain demographics, etc.

 

To deny the reality of mind-blowing fun is a lie. Kids *know* that alcohol/other drugs can be a blast.

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm honest with my kids. I tell them about my own very minimal experiences with substances and am also very honest about the fact that abuse and addition issues are common on both sides of our family. I explain that I've never been tempted to indulge more than I did during my brief youthful indiscretions because:

 

1. Most things just give me a headache.

2. I hate feeling out of control.

3. I usually have a better time sober than most others have under the influence.

4. I don't want to risk my best asset -- my brain.

5. I could tell stories all day of the people and relationships I have seen destroyed by addiction and simple over-indulgence.

[KungFuPanda]

Genetics. Science. Statistics.

 

In that regard, they are genetically screwed.

I am very skeptical. Now, I don't know your family medical history, and I wouldn't dig for those details, but does there even EXIST a genetic predisposition that guarantees ALL offspring will become alcoholics if they have a single glass of whine? I have never heard of such a thing (and I'll concede that my not knowing of it doesn't mean it isn't real.) On the surface it sounds like an extreme scare tactic.

[LucyStoner]

I am very skeptical. Now, I don't know your family medical history, and I wouldn't dig for those details, but does there even EXIST a genetic predisposition that guarantees ALL offspring will become alcoholics if they have a single glass of whine? I have never heard of such a thing (and I'll concede that my not knowing of it doesn't mean it isn't real.) On the surface it sounds like an extreme scare tactic.

I have to agree. I have a long history of alcoholism on both sides of my family. My husband does as well and as I said, his dad died of alcoholism. Both of us drink socially, neither of us is an alcoholic or even a regular drinker. Both of us can, and do, stop after 1 or however many drinks we have decided to have. My husband has been especially cautious and is definitely "a lightweight" but one drink doesn't cause him to drink more and more. Children of alcoholics do need to be careful but having alcoholic parents or relatives doesn't mean that one will also be an alcoholic.

[Farrar]

Dh is a recovering alcoholic (more than 16 years now). It runs in his family, but it's not every person or even every male. It doesn't run strongly in my family so it's not something I grew up with. My brother has had some addiction issues, but none of our parents, grandparents or even great-grandparents did.

 

We're super frank with the kids that they're pre-disposed genetically to have problems with alcohol, but I don't treat it like it's a certainty, mostly because I don't feel like it is. I think there's a good chance that they'll turn out to be fine with alcohol. For me, I feel like there's a risk in being too scare tactics about it. I don't want them to think of alcohol as forbidden fruit. On the other hand, I don't feel like that's warranted for us. If I did know with a lot more certainty, then I could feel differently.

 

ETA: No one in dh's family is open about the alcohol issues in their past, which is really... obnoxious, honestly. There's all kinds of mental illness on that side of the family and mil is super closed off about it all. Dh feels like if he had gotten the sort of prepwork that we've done for the kids, that he might not have ended up going down the road he did. Or, at least, like he would have recognized what was happening a whole lot sooner than he did.

[Guest]

I feel like my husband and I are the only people on the planet who actually obeyed the substance laws while underage! I've still never been drunk or tried any recreational drugs.

 

We plan on telling than flat out about the positives and negatives of alcohol and pot. And why we personally don't do more than have a beer after dinner every few months.

[Catwoman]

I think it is absolutely vital to be honest with kids about why drugs/alcohol are attractive and the fun effects. Along with ongoing talks about consent, risk, actual physical impact, risk of addiction, addiction co-factors, the over-use and situational abuse of certain demographics, etc.

 

To deny the reality of mind-blowing fun is a lie. Kids *know* that alcohol/other drugs can be a blast.

I disagree that drugs and alcohol are "mind-blowing fun" for everyone, and I certainly don't plan to assume that all kids "know that alcohol/other drugs can be a blast."

 

Some people use and enjoy them, but plenty of people don't indulge in either drugs or alcohol and manage to have a great time without them, and others have tried them and not enjoyed the effects at all -- including teenagers and young adults.

[Joyofsixreboot]

We are pretty honest without embellishing. We explain people like the way it makes them feel, that excess leads to stupid decisions. That in our state drinking before 21 and pot is illegal. That people often break the law. If you do partake call me for a ride home.

[creekland]

This is very interesting to me! I mean, otoh, you say to your kids "drugs are bad, they're illegal, don't use them" and then, whoops! the law changes LOL so your story does too ;) Not exactly but YKWIM, right? 

 

I just wonder how you explain to kids how something that was illegal becomes legal, and why that transition happened, particularly in the case of marijuana. I guess one would say "the state of Colorado decided over time that pot was not as big of a danger as originally though?" or something to that effect?

 

Laws and legality never mean a thing in our family, because yes, people's thoughts (or the science on the issue) can change.  With pot, many places are making it legal and a big argument for it is how much money and time it saves law enforcement if it's legal.

 

But anyway, cigarettes are legal, yet there is no positive reason (I agree with) to encourage smoking.  We don't worry about the "legal" bit.  We look at the substance and pros/cons of it.

 

With alcohol there appear to be some health benefits if used in moderation, yet some big health (and other) cons if used more than that.  There is a taste factor that can be appealing if one finds what they like.  It's expensive compared to other beverages, so budget also needs to be considered.

 

With any drug (legal or illegal) we look at what it does to the body.  Is that prescription's benefits worth trying or not (even if it's pot)?  (This answer can change from situation to situation.)  With vaccinations and antibiotics and insulin + other medically "needed" meds, decisions are usually a no-brainer.  With anything else, weigh the pros and cons as there can be more thought required.

 

We, personally, see no pros to smoking or eating pot, so if it's legal here and illegal there - it makes no difference.  We feel the same way about cigarettes.  There's no particular reason lawmakers need to decide what's "right" for our situation.  It's better to think for oneself.

 

 

 generally left me to make up my own mind.  For me that freed me to literally make up my own mind.  I didn't try anything in high school because it seemed stupid to me.  My parents being honest and non judgmental took away the rebellion factor for me.

 

We have always let our kids make their own decisions once they reached their teens and the age of reason.  I see no reason to make them clones of hubby and me.  I'd accept them no matter what choices they made knowing they have the thought capacity to weigh the pros and cons.

 

If they made mistakes they later wanted to change, we'd be there for them with that too.

 

This doesn't just go with drugs and alcohol, but religious beliefs, life desires, intimacy decisions, and pretty much anything else one can think of.

 

My kids KNOW they are an accepted part of our family no matter what.

[lllll]

..

[kewb]

We have discussed how alcoholism runs in the family and the best way to avoid that genetic pitfall is not to drink. By example, I am not a big drinker. The occasional glass of wine with dinner. My dh will sometimes have a beer or two.

 

For pot, we have discussed that it is illegal where we live. How excessive use can ruin your life by taking away motivation, desires, and interests in hobbies. The medicinal uses that are valid and how it can and should be used for those purposes. Heroin is a much bigger issue where I live. We have discussed how some people can try it once and walk away and others are addicted from that first use. There is no way to know which person you are ahead of time but since alcoholism and addictive personality runs in the family there is a good chance they are the instant addicted category so don't try it.

 

We have discussed peer pressure and guilt by association. For example, if you are are at a party where there is drinking and drug use and the cops show up then they will treat you as if you have been participating.

 

And most importantly, when you are at a party or a bar you hold onto your drink. If you put it down, no matter how full your glass is you get a new one.

[Joanne]

I am very skeptical. Now, I don't know your family medical history, and I wouldn't dig for those details, but does there even EXIST a genetic predisposition that guarantees ALL offspring will become alcoholics if they have a single glass of whine? I have never heard of such a thing (and I'll concede that my not knowing of it doesn't mean it isn't real.) On the surface it sounds like an extreme scare tactic.

I am an alcoholic/addict. Their Dad is. My mom, grandmother, grandfather, Uncle, and other relatives are. Their paternal family history is similarly riddled.

 

I have every confidence that science will confirm the genetic predisposition on several levels. It is comparable to cancers with a genetic predisposition: the predisposition exists but a lot of environment and context allows for the disease to emerge and progress.

 

The above is anecdotal, but I see it confirmed daily professionally.

 

My son (20) is an alcoholic/addict. He was toast as soon as he put drugs and alcohol in his body.

 

I believe that addiction is fully a disease; a physiological disease. Healing is not about strength, character, spirituality - although those can have chemical changes that aid healing and remission.

 

I feel the need to add that I celebrate 24 years sober Friday, my kids' Dad celebrates the same next week. My mom died with 30-something years sober and my son has about 9 months.

[Joanne]

I disagree that drugs and alcohol are "mind-blowing fun" for everyone, and I certainly don't plan to assume that all kids "know that alcohol/other drugs can be a blast."

 

Some people use and enjoy them, but plenty of people don't indulge in either drugs or alcohol and manage to have a great time without them, and others have tried them and not enjoyed the effects at all -- including teenagers and young adults.

I never said that they are mind blowing for everyone or that you can't have fun without them.

[Joanne]

It means you are at greater risk, depending on your individual genetic and environmental factors.

 

 

 

As we are talking about children, I think it's pretty darn sensible to educate those of our children who are at greater risk and to strongly discourage any drinking or drug taking in their teens or early 20's.

Yes. To me, it is no different than a parent sharing about family history and risk for heart diease or cancer or anxiety - all diseases.

 

Age of first and/or regular use is a compelling factor in the development of disease and/or the pace of the progression. Addiction that begins in teens often progresses more rapidly because their brains are - physically- more vulnerable and psychologically and developmentally they are more at risk for co-factors.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I tell my kids not to smoke the hippie lettuce, but repeatedly offer them tastes of wine. They always decline. I think the only thing my daughter ever tasted and liked was a mimosa. If they ever had an interest in tasting wine, their first communion killed that.

 

Are you all really telling your kids that alcohol kills brain cells? Really?

 

Yeah I must be a freaking genius then. 

[Bluegoat]

Alcohol is around a fair bit in my immediate family.  My husband makes beer, and he has one or two most evenings, and I often do as well.  All of my family on my mum's side has wine at family dinners and such, and our friend's families are the same.  But it would be rare if not unheard of to see someone drunk at these events, though there might be some who get a little tipsy.

 

My dad's family is a bit different, as there are some who don't drink at all due to substance abuse problems, and some who are still abusing - though most of them are now getting old enough that it has become low key.  There seems to be something of a generational shift that has happened there.

 

Anyway, my kids know that drunkeness is not a good thing because it is unpleasent and makes people make bad choices, but they could hardly believe drinking is something we don't approve of.  I am actually more wary of pot TBH, quite apart from issues around its legality.  I think a big difference between pot and alcohol as regentrude pointed out is that pot is pretty much invariable used recreationaly for getting high.  I think that is a significantly different approach, mentally speaking, to what people do when they are drinking in a healthy way.  And the other issue is that my dad's family addiction problems seem pretty closely related to mental illness problems, and IMO pot has been more of a long-term problem for them in many cases than alcohol has, at least in my dad's generation. 

 

We haven't talked a lot about pot yet, though my older knows about it and to avoid it, but I will have to go into more detail at some point.  She is very against smoking anything though.

[Bluegoat]

Depends on the type of alcoholism. Type II has a strong genetic component - it's a rapid onset of alcoholism, usually before the age of 25, mostly in men.

 

Sons of those men show less than average intoxication from the same amount of alcohol as compared to sons of non-alcoholic men, show a greater decrease in stress as a result of consuming alcohol, and have a smaller than normal amygdala ( pre-drinking - predisposition, not result ). They are more likely to become alcoholics themselves.

 

It doesn't guarantee that all offspring will become alcoholics - but it provides a pretty compelling reason for children of alcoholics - especially sons of male alcoholics with Type II - to avoid alcohol.

 

It's not a scare tactic, but a sensible precaution to avoid an illness they have a greater than average chance of manifesting.

 

Alcoholism is a miserable disease, and if the price of not having to deal with its consequences is long term avoidance of alcohol - that's a small price to pay.

 

Families without this genetic susceptibility can afford to downplay the dangers associated with alcohol use, but for a family with those genes ? It's essential info our children need to have.

 

I have to say though that I would never be too sure.  I would say this describes perfectly the men on my dad's side of the family, and the occasional woman, for quite a few generations.  There is every reason to think it is strongly genetic.

 

But in my generation it doesn't seem to have held true.  Now, it could still happen that alcohol addictions could become more prominent, but we are all solidly over thirty and a number of us are on the cusp of 40.  There are probably two that I might be worried about, who happen to be the youngest, so they are still unknowns to some extent.  They are also the two who had more unstable childhoods and one may have FAS effects.

 

But overall the drinking patterns in my generation, and the living choices, seem to have gone a different route. 

 

[DawnM]

What's the religious perspective? Not meant to be snarky, just not sure what this means. And the scientific one? Is pot better? Or wine?

 

My guess is that using scripture that points out that your body is a temple and given by God, that we are to take care of it in a manner that is not in any way abusive.  This includes any mind altering "drugs" (quotations because I am including alcohol in that mix.)  

 

I grew up very, very conservative.  ANY alcohol meant sin.  

 

I do not subscribe to that extreme conservativism any longer and don't think a glass of wine is a sin, but that is what my parents still believe.  My mother grew up in an alcoholic family as well, so her views are also tainted by that.  Her all or nothing approach to things dictates a lot of her belief system.

 

Please know that I am stating an opinion......I know people will argue that most of us do things daily that don't honor the body God gave us.  I am not stating any of the above for an argument, just a matter of fact answer to the question asked.

[Halcyon]

I just recently read about a Norwegian guy who is trying to legalize LSD in Norway. LSD can be life-changing for some people, when used correctly.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I just recently read about a Norwegian guy who is trying to legalize LSD in Norway. LSD can be life-changing for some people, when used correctly.

 

I have never tried LSD.  My guess is that I'd really like it.  LOL  So I just don't go there.  But it was the drug of choice when I was in college.  I knew a lot of people who did it.  I'm not sure it was so great.  They didn't sleep for days sometimes.  It just seemed reckless.  They mostly acted stupid.

[regentrude]

My guess is that using scripture that points out that your body is a temple and given by God, that we are to take care of it in a manner that is not in any way abusive.  This includes any mind altering "drugs" (quotations because I am including alcohol in that mix.)  

 

I grew up very, very conservative.  ANY alcohol meant sin.  

 

I do not subscribe to that extreme conservativism any longer and don't think a glass of wine is a sin, but that is what my parents still believe.  My mother grew up in an alcoholic family as well, so her views are also tainted by that.  Her all or nothing approach to things dictates a lot of her belief system.

 

Please know that I am stating an opinion......I know people will argue that most of us do things daily that don't honor the body God gave us.  I am not stating any of the above for an argument, just a matter of fact answer to the question asked.

 

I do not want to argue, but am simply curious: how does such a perspective reconcile with things like Jesus making water into wine,and not the other way around? He clearly thought this was OK. Is the reasoning that that was OK back then because wine was safer than water which could be contaminated, and drinking wine is no longer necessary now with clean water? I have always been curious about this and would appreciate if you could shed some light - the issue must have come up.

[MyThreeSons]

I have cautioned my sons to be extremely careful -- they know that both their father and I used to drink, but no longer do because it caused problems for us. They don't know details, unless they have talked with their half-siblings who may have disclosed something.

 

My oldest ds (25) is almost militantly straight edge. He is adamant about not touching anything like that.

 

Youngest ds (19) gets migraines triggered by certain smells, including beer and pot smoke. I'm not sure how he knows about the pot smoke, but he has said that he was sorry he couldn't attend a certain outdoor concert because he knew the smells would make him sick. 

 

I know that middle ds drinks some. He is 21, and lives 1000 miles away. 

[Lizzie in Ma]

My kids have been around people drinking in moderation and people (certain family members) getting stupid drunk.  While dh and I drink beer and wine on a regular basis, our kids have never, nor will they ever, see us drunk.  We don't demonize it, we stress making good choices.

We have talked about it for years.  We have no objection to their trying whatever we are drinking but neither of them like the taste so far.  Both have culinary interest in beer and wine as well.

 

As for pot, I have mixed feelings.  I watched some people I love get pretty apathtic about life when they were smoking and I've seen others who use on occasion have no issues with it.  It doesn't do anything for me except make me go to sleep, so I never got the appeal.

We have actually been talking about it a lot of late, it is one of the things we are looking into to help our chronically ill 18 year old.  But for medical use, we know we want low thc, the element that makes you feel stoned and high cbd, the element that seems to have both pain relieving and antiinflammatory properites.  Currently she is using CBD oil made from hemp that her doctor wanted her to try.  Don't know that it is helping as yet.

 

Both our girls have had occasion to need prescription pain meds.  They hate the way they make them feel so I don't see it becoming an issue for them.  W have talked about safety with their prescriptions and the current issues with prescription pain killers and what addicts will do to get them.

 

Pretty much we talk, we model and we stress common sense.

 

[MercyA]

I do not want to argue, but am simply curious: how does such a perspective reconcile with things like Jesus making water into wine,and not the other way around? He clearly thought this was OK. Is the reasoning that that was OK back then because wine was safer than water which could be contaminated, and drinking wine is no longer necessary now with clean water? I have always been curious about this and would appreciate if you could shed some light - the issue must have come up.

 

I am a theologically conservative Christian, and I don't think a militantly anti-alcohol perspective can be reconciled with Scripture.  Jesus clearly drank:  "For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.†Luke 7:33-35.  As you pointed out, Jesus also changed water into wine, and even stated that He will drink wine again with believers in the new kingdom.

 

In the Old Testament, wine is mentioned again and again as a gift from God.  Consider verses like:

 

"[God] causes the grass to grow for the cattle, and vegetation for the labor of man, so that he may bring forth food from the earth, and wine which makes man’s heart glad, so that he may make his face glisten with oil, and food which sustains man’s heart."  Psalm 104:14-15 and "Go then, eat your bread in happiness and drink your wine with a cheerful heart; for God has already approved your works." Ecclesiastes 9:7

 

Drinking to excess and to the point of drunkenness, however, is strongly prohibited for Christians.

[Saddlemomma]

We've talked with our DDs quite a bit about this.  In fact, discussing drugs and alcohol is a regular thing in our house.  Every time we see some instance in a Netflix/Amazon movie is a chance to discuss it.  Both DH and I have alcoholics in the family.  DH's dad was an alcoholic. He died of a brain aneurism (result of being alcoholic) on DH's 4th birthday while sledding with DH down a hill.  On of DH's two memories of him is getting a sip of beer from his dad's beer bottle.

 

My mother's whole family is comprised of alcoholics, recovering alcoholics, and drug users: her mother, father, siblings, and nephews. My grandmother physically and verbally abused her kids growing up.  She was a very mean drunk.  My mother remembers being chased by her mother with a meat cleaver.  I can remember phone calls from establishments asking us to go pickup my grandmother from their floor and take her home.  She actually peed on my eldest brother one time.  That was the last time he ever spoke or saw her.  He was 17.  When I was 16, we again had to go get my grandmother from the officer's club because she was drunk.  Once we got her to her apartment, she started verbally abusing my mother.  I lit into her.  My mother and father never interrupted me.  I really downloaded on her.  From that point on, I never let my mother go to her mother's house alone if my father couldn't go.  From that point on, she realized I wasn't going to allow her to abuse my mother.

 

For these reasons, neither DH nor I drink at all.  Not only are we are worried about the hereditary aspects of alcoholism, but I grew up disgusted by what I witnessed with my grandmother.

 

Now, my kids never knew this grandmother, and we definitely are not close or exposed to the rest of the family, but we have told the girls about these situations and how damaging alcohol and drugs are to families.

 

Unfortunately, my eldest DD has experiences with her own father that she can relate to.  A few months before abandoning us, he began drinking to excess and smoking marijuana.  One summer evening when he came home from the store, he was drunk and high.  DD was in the driveway playing and he almost hit her.  Terrified and furious, I took the keys and told him there would be no next time because I would call the police.  He left us in December of that year.  To this day, DD, now 24, rarely if ever drinks, will not touch drugs, and is usually the designated drive at any get togethers.

 

Youngest DD doesn't like the fact that she would not be in control of her actions while under the influence.  Just the thought of that terrifies her.

 

I have no issues with a doctor determining that someone needs medical marijuana, but I'm totally against legalizing it for general consumption.  My eldest brother is a police captain and one fact that he sees and knows is that the marijuana of today isn't the same stuff when we were growing up. (Heck, nowadays you don't even have to grow it because synthetic marijuana is available.)  It's 50x more potent and dangerous.  It's no longer the benign drug of the '60s, and it's often laced with more potent hallucinogenics and addictive properties.  There's a reason it's called a gateway drug nowadays.

 

 

 

[MyThreeSons]

When I was in grade school -- late 1960s, early 70s -- there was a really big push to educate kids about the dangers of drug use. 

 

I remember being scared silly by the statement that if we used LSD even once, we would be subject to flashbacks the rest of our lives. They told us that we could grow up to be a nice responsible person, and all of a sudden, we would be at work and have these psychedelic flashback episodes that would get us fired and ruin our lives. 

 

Reading this thread reminds me that I have never once read about this happening to someone. 

[rutamattatt]

With kids ages 17, 13, and 10 we are having these conversations A LOT lately.  

 

DH and I don't drink - not because we are against it, but mostly because we don't have the time.  ;)  I used to drink a glass of wine in the evening years ago, and DH would have a beer with dinner, but we got away from that for whatever reason.  We are not opposed to drinking in moderation once they are of legal age, but I am militant that ANY alcohol means NO driving.  (I just have a thing about that after my sister was hit by a "buzzed driver" who wasn't charged.)

 

Conversations became much different when our daughter joined our family.  She comes from a background of trauma due to alcohol abuse, and she has a physical and emotional reaction to alcohol that is unlike anything I'd ever seen before.  I was sipping a rum and Coke at a family wedding when we discovered that social drinking was not going to be in the cards for our immediate family.  To SEE a bottle of alcohol is a trigger for her.  Weddings, restaurants with bars, etc. are difficult for us to navigate.  

 

It has been a dance to frame appropriateness with alcohol in a situation where there was zero modeling of that for one of our children.  She is emphatic that she will never be around it.  Our boys say they will maybe have a drink once in awhile when they are of age.  My response to the boys is that they will have to make that decision for themselves as adults, but that they must make the best personal choices with all the information available to them.   I do not know how DD will navigate the adult world in regards to others and alcohol.  We are working with her through counseling, etc. to help, but I fear this could always be a trauma trigger for her.

 

Pot is not really a thing here.  (Yet.)  Our stance is that if it is illegal where they live, they ought to not do it.

[Farrar]

The all alcohol is sin attitude is one taken by some of my southern relatives. I have a cousin who believes that, but she married a guy who likes to have a beer in the evenings. But she thinks it's so horrible that she won't let him drink in the house anymore. So he drinks alone in his car. At this point I can't figure out if he's an alcoholic or just a normal drinker in a weird relationship. And if he does have a drinking problem if it was always a drinking problem or if the dynamics of his relationship have just made him one or if he was always headed that way or what. The way my relatives talk about him implies he's a complete drunk, but they talk about *anyone* who has a drink with dinner occasionally that way, so who knows. Occasionally when my grandmother expounds on what a perfect son my father is, she feels compelled to add that he sometimes drinks, as if this is a fatal flaw.

 

I guess that's what I think of when I think about a healthy attitude toward alcohol - respecting that it can be dangerous, understanding that it's more dangerous for some people than others, but not creating an environment where fear clouds judgment or makes it seem unnatural.

 

I feel pretty much the same about pot, though there's the added legal issues there in most places.

[MyThreeSons]

My grandparents in KS were of the "all alcohol is sin" mindset. Their daughter's husband was a farmer. At harvest time, he employed a bunch of extra guys. Part of his deal with them was that he supplied food and drink during the days they worked for him. And that included beer. My grandmother was at their place one day while everyone was out in the fields. She poured all of the beer down the drain. My then-uncle was not happy, to say the least, when they came in for lunch. 

 

Sadly, Grandma's interference did not stop there, and not only did her meddling contribute to the breakup of that marriage, it also led to the divorce of at least one of my cousins. (Not always over alcohol.)

[DawnM]

I do not want to argue, but am simply curious: how does such a perspective reconcile with things like Jesus making water into wine,and not the other way around? He clearly thought this was OK. Is the reasoning that that was OK back then because wine was safer than water which could be contaminated, and drinking wine is no longer necessary now with clean water? I have always been curious about this and would appreciate if you could shed some light - the issue must have come up.

 

I have heard a lot of different reasons, so I can't give just one answer.  The one used the most is that in Biblical times the wine was not as strong, it was only slightly more fermented than grape juice.  I have read a few things that suggest that because they didn't have an abundance of yeast or sugar to make wine stronger, it was more weak.  I am NOT going to argue this because I really can't speak to the validity of that claim.

 

However, I think for most people, when asked why they think it is wrong, they quote the "give no appearance of evil" claim that if others with alcohol issues see them drinking, it could lead someone astray (called a stumbling block in Christianese).

[Spy Car]

As for the difference between alcohol and pot, it is also worth mentioning that most people who drink alcohol do not do so because of the intoxicating effect - but because the beverage tastes good. We don't drink to have our brains impaired, we drink good wine because of the complex and wonderful taste. In contrast, the sole reason to consume pot is its effect on the nervous system.

 

 

Actually, connoisseurs of fine cannabis are keenly aware of the taste profiles of different strains and can prattle on about them every bit as much as oenophiles enjoying a fine wine.

 

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I have heard a lot of different reasons, so I can't give just one answer.  The one used the most is that in Biblical times the wine was not as strong, it was only slightly more fermented than grape juice.  I have read a few things that suggest that because they didn't have an abundance of yeast or sugar to make wine stronger, it was more weak.  I am NOT going to argue this because I really can't speak to the validity of that claim.

 

However, I think for most people, when asked why they think it is wrong, they quote the "give no appearance of evil" claim that if others with alcohol issues see them drinking, it could lead someone astray (called a stumbling block in Christianese).

 

So you are aware this is a totally invalid claim. Sugar is not "added" to ordinary table wine to make it stronger*, and the wine of yesteryear and the wine of today are fermented with yeast. Someone is spreading falsehoods to further their own agenda, but it is nonsense.

 

Bill

 

*Champagne and sparkling wines get a small charge of sugar after the primary fermentation to aid carbonation.

[elegantlion]

A bigger issue in our area is with illegal use of prescription drugs. Those create more problems with stupid actions than pot around here. That's also a conversation we have, moreso than pot usage. 

[Liz CA]

I am very skeptical. Now, I don't know your family medical history, and I wouldn't dig for those details, but does there even EXIST a genetic predisposition that guarantees ALL offspring will become alcoholics if they have a single glass of whine? I have never heard of such a thing (and I'll concede that my not knowing of it doesn't mean it isn't real.) On the surface it sounds like an extreme scare tactic.

 

Sadie pretty much explained the stats on this. Difficult to say what a "single" glass can do or not do. Generally I would say a glass of whine is less dangerous than a glass of wine if you are predisposed to having dependence problems.

 

There is certainly research that points in the direction that there is a strong genetic component to addiction / dependence issues. I would consider it in the category of "fair warning" rather than "scare tactic."

[Liz CA]

As for the difference between alcohol and pot, it is also worth mentioning that most people who drink alcohol do not do so because of the intoxicating effect - but because the beverage tastes good. We don't drink to have our brains impaired, we drink good wine because of the complex and wonderful taste. In contrast, the sole reason to consume pot is its effect on the nervous system.

It is important to discuss taste of alcoholic beverages and caution young people especially about alcopos and sweet cocktails - it is easy to consume more alcohol than intended when it is hidden in a sweet beverage.

 

This may hold true for the occasional wine connoisseur but I have talked to plenty of people who drink (usually beer or liquor) to get that buzz.

[bethben]

There are laws about when you can consume alcohol and/or marijuana.  Also laws about drinking and driving.  Marijuana is legal in our state so this is a real discussion.   Past that, I explain that they may have an addictive personality/ body type.  What that means is that some people may consume these products - especially marijuana and walk away.  Others may consume marijuana for example and get hooked.  You never know which personality you are until you go down that road and may wind up regretting a simple "just try it" decision.  I also explain that there is a family history of addictive personalities / body types and they may have inherited that disposition.  

[DawnM]

So you are aware this is a totally invalid claim. Sugar is not "added" to ordinary table wine to make it stronger*, and the wine of yesteryear and the wine of today are fermented with yeast. Someone is spreading falsehoods to further their own agenda, but it is nonsense.

 

Bill

 

*Champagne and sparkling wines get a small charge of sugar after the primary fermentation to aid carbonation.

 

 

Not aware of any of it as I don't make wine, just reading online one google search's "answers."  I know the argument that wine was not as strong back then was something I had heard in the past so I googled it to see why.  I make no stand on it one way or the other.

[laughing lioness]

Dh is in the mental health field and I have been so it's part of our conversation. We also have family members that are abuser/ addicts and our kids have alwasy posed the questions first, "What's wrong with X." This question has applied to a person being stoned/ drunk and/ or pickled from years of abuse.

[Runningmom80]

I have alcoholism and substance abuse problems in my immediate family, so I've recently began talking about how it's a genetic disease and that means that DS will have to be careful if he does decide to have a drink.  (I was advised to start early on this, as soon as the child can understand.)

 

 

I think my experience colors everything to do with alcohol and marijuana, so I'm probably not a good example, but I'm 100% honest about it.  I'd rather they be told early and often.  Same with s*x education.

 

DS asked me about marijuana last summer because of a stupid John Mayer song that said "stoned" on pandora.  I explained it to him.  I'm not sure if it was right, but I had to think on the spot.

 

ETA: I will have that convo with ALL of my children, it's just the 4 year olds aren't really asking too many questions.  The extent of their interest is ordering "wine & jelly donuts" when they play restaurant. :lol:

[Runningmom80]

I want to add that "modeling moderation" is useless if the consumer watching has a brain predisposed to addiction. It is an actual physical disease that progresses and a craving for MORE develops.

 

Excellent point.

[LMV]

I feel like my husband and I are the only people on the planet who actually obeyed the substance laws while underage! I've still never been drunk or tried any recreational drugs.

 

We plan on telling than flat out about the positives and negatives of alcohol and pot. And why we personally don't do more than have a beer after dinner every few months.

 

You and your husband can hang out with me and my husband.  We're equally cool [or boring I suppose depending on perspective]. We're also big believers that adolescent brains [and adolescence really can extend up to age 25] are particularly vulnerable to the effects of drugs and alcohol and we share that with our kids as our basis for zero tolerance [at least while they are living in our home, deriving financial support from us, and or driving automobiles we own or purchased for them].

[goldberry]

 

We also frame our discussion within our religious beliefs which means to obey the law of the land so no drinking until you are 21 and no pot at all (in our state it is illegal). We also talk about not being a glutton with drinking (aka getting drunk), and to stay sober-minded which would mean not using substances on a regular basis or to excess that would cause your judgment to be impaired.

 

This is pretty much our discussion, except we live in Colorado so pot is legal here - but still illegal federally, so that still applies.  I also have an older brother who died from liver failure due to drug and alcohol use, so she knows the practical impacts.  We also stress the aspect of not knowing if you have a tendency to addiction until it might be too late, so why go there?

 

In addition though, we use media/movies/etc to discuss that if she does make the choice to drink or otherwise, that the company she is keeping while doing so is a huge safety issue.  Your judgment will be compromised and if you are at a bar, a party where you don't know people, as opposed to home with your girlfriends - you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

[Joanne]

You and your husband can hang out with me and my husband.  We're equally cool [or boring I suppose depending on perspective]. We're also big believers that adolescent brains [and adolescence really can extend up to age 25] are particularly vulnerable to the effects of drugs and alcohol and we share that with our kids as our basis for zero tolerance [at least while they are living in our home, deriving financial support from us, and or driving automobiles we own or purchased for them].

 

Totally agree with the bold, and adding that the lack of prefontal cortex connectivity *also* complicates things as teens seek sensation and adventure but lack the wisdom to temper the impulses with the benefit of a mature brain (prefontal cortex matured).

[Bluegoat]

I am a theologically conservative Christian, and I don't think a militantly anti-alcohol perspective can be reconciled with Scripture.  Jesus clearly drank:  "For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.†Luke 7:33-35.  As you pointed out, Jesus also changed water into wine, and even stated that He will drink wine again with believers in the new kingdom.

 

In the Old Testament, wine is mentioned again and again as a gift from God.  Consider verses like:

 

"[God] causes the grass to grow for the cattle, and vegetation for the labor of man, so that he may bring forth food from the earth, and wine which makes man’s heart glad, so that he may make his face glisten with oil, and food which sustains man’s heart."  Psalm 104:14-15 and "Go then, eat your bread in happiness and drink your wine with a cheerful heart; for God has already approved your works." Ecclesiastes 9:7

 

Drinking to excess and to the point of drunkenness, however, is strongly prohibited for Christians.

 

This is what I would say - you really can't reconcile those two positions.

 

However, I have heard some people try and claim that the "wine" used at the last supper, the wedding at Cana, and in the early church generally, was actually grape juice.  This seems a pretty incredible claim given the dates people learned to pasteurize juice, but it seems to be an argument people make anyway.

 

[Bluegoat]

Actually, connoisseurs of fine cannabis are keenly aware of the taste profiles of different strains and can prattle on about them every bit as much as oenophiles enjoying a fine wine.

 

 

Bill

 

Which as far as I can see is irrelevant to what she said.  You can enjoy wine aesthetically and drink to get drunk or buzzed.  But many people don't, which was her point.  Plenty really don't even like to get buzzed but still enjoy a beer or whatever.

 

People don't smoke pot without an expectation of getting high, and if they don't like it they pretty much don't smoke it.

 

[Bluegoat]

This may hold true for the occasional wine connoisseur but I have talked to plenty of people who drink (usually beer or liquor) to get that buzz.

 

Sure.  Lots of people do, but more than an occasional person does not.  That is particularly true where drinking is culturally attached to eating rather than being an activity in itself.

[regentrude]

This may hold true for the occasional wine connoisseur but I have talked to plenty of people who drink (usually beer or liquor) to get that buzz.

 

I think limiting it to the occasional wine connoisseeur is not giving people enough credit.

In my entire extended family, my parents' friends when I grew up, and my own various circles if friends, I have never encountered a person who drank for the "buzz". They all drink for the taste and are selective in what they consume. I really don't know anybody who drinks to feel uninhibited, or to get drunk. Drinking wine is part of a nice meal for millions of people - not just "occasional" ones.

[regentrude]

I am curious and have a question for those who mention not fully developed brains:

is there any data that compare the US, where there is a restrictive drinking age, with countries where wine is a normal part of the culture (France, for example) with respect to outcomes re brain function, alcoholism rates, etc?

If responsible drinking (not binging or getting drunk, but wine with meals) is detrimental to adolescents, I would expect there to be data showing the US to a clear advantage. I have not found such data and don't hear about French young adults being brain damaged by alcohol to a significant extent, which leads me to believe that the danger of moderate consumption is greatly exaggerated.

 

ETA: Just to clarify: I am not talking about teens who are specifically genetically predisposed to alcoholism and for whom it might be prudent to abstain. I am talking about normal 16 year olds having a glass of wine with dinner. Is there really evidence that this is actually harmful?

[Joanne]

I am curious and have a question for those who mention not fully developed brains:

is there any data that compare the US, where there is a restrictive drinking age, with countries where wine is a normal part of the culture (France, for example) with respect to outcomes re brain function, alcoholism rates, etc?

If responsible drinking (not binging or getting drunk, but wine with meals) is detrimental to adolescents, I would expect there to be data showing the US to a clear advantage. I have not found such data and don't hear about French young adults being brain damaged by alcohol to a significant extent, which leads me to believe that the danger of moderate consumption is greatly exaggerated.

 

ETA: Just to clarify: I am not talking about teens who are specifically genetically predisposed to alcoholism and for whom it might be prudent to abstain. I am talking about normal 16 year olds having a glass of wine with dinner. Is there really evidence that this is actually harmful?

 

Modeling responsible drinking won't stop disease.

 

Alcoholism rates are higher in countries in which alcohol is casually given or offered to children and adolescents.

 

And you are reading "brain damage" into the posts, "we" are not talking about that.