Moving for this reason - should we? Think this through with me!

[TranquilMind]

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE 

 

We will be empty nesters soon, but not quite yet.

 

We have been landlords for many years and own a just-vacated house nearby, virtually identical to our own, with a more usable floor plan, but only one full bath (and a half) and smaller in square footage.  A tenant just vacated, so we are actually considering selling our larger house with the bad floor plan and relocating to this other house.   

 

 

Pros:  MAJOR PRO:   If we sell and move, we can be totally out of debt within a year or two (have only mortgage). 

 

Better floor plan we will actually use, even though a few hundred square feet smaller.  Right now we have two unusable rooms and no storage or pantry.

 

Larger garage

 

Overlooks a creek, not a house, with a very private patio. 

 

 

Already has brand new stainless appliances, except for fridge. 

 

 

CONS:  One immediate neighbor is messy, and never cuts bushes or overgrowth.  It does look like the gutters were finally repaired though.  Worried about this for resale

 

Needs total renovation - new kitchen and new baths and refinished hardwoods and total painting.  I'm a "new surface" kind of person if I move, and it is time anyway, after a few tenants. Lots to coordinate and expensive.

 

We're OLD (especially me).  I've had multiple surgeries and cannot do much physical labor like I used to be able to do.  I will have to hire out EVERYTHING. 

 

One bedroom is too small for anything other than an office with a futon.  One kid will be losing a permanently furnished room. 

 

We sold a house to a nearby neighbor to this one.  They had an extremely hostile and unprofessional Realtor who threatened to sue throughout the transaction for every little thing (No cause, and no lawsuit occurred of course).  Concerned about that interaction.   

 

Furnace in garage and making a loud thump as it turns off.  Hopefully don't need a new one. 

 

So...would you do it?  The overwhelming number of details seems exhausting, and I'm only a few months out from a major surgery.  But on the other hand, debt-free and owning a house outright seems wonderful, and I can make it nice, if not large. 

 

Help me make this decision!  Spouse and kids are willing to do whatever.  Very easy going (I'm grateful). 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

If the floor plan will make it easier on you in the long run, I'd do it.  We've moved into some of our own rental properties.  it's one of the perks!  

[PeacefulChaos]

I think that, given what you've said, I would do it.  

If the floor plan is better, and there's nothing really *worse* about it that can't be changed, yeah... I'd do it.

[creekland]

I'd do it.  The older I get, the smaller I want.  As long as you can afford the upgrades and refinishing you want, there's no problem hiring it out IMO.

[JumpyTheFrog]

What about selling both houses and buying one you like better that doesn't need much work?

[Catwoman]

What about selling both houses and buying one you like better that doesn't need much work?

:iagree:

 

That was the first thought that came into my mind, too.

 

Or... can you sell the second house and use the proceeds to pay down the mortgage on your current home?

[Reefgazer]

I am a "Go with your gut" kinda gal, so no matter what I offer, I still say listen to the voice in your gut.  If you decide to move and feel nauseous, then it's the wrong decision. 

 

Anyway, my thoughts, in no particular order:

 

-  You'll have to repair/renovate anyway for new tenants, so that has to be done no matter who moves in; same for any potential furnace repairs.  And you would have to contract out those repairs anyway, right?

 

-  Can you hide messy neighbor's mess by planting large shrubbery?

 

-  I'm not clear on your realtor situation that went bad.  Will it affect the sale of your current home?

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE 

 

We will be empty nesters soon, but not quite yet.

 

We have been landlords for many years and own a just-vacated house nearby, virtually identical to our own, with a more usable floor plan, but only one full bath (and a half) and smaller in square footage.  A tenant just vacated, so we are actually considering selling our larger house with the bad floor plan and relocating to this other house.   

 

 

Pros:  MAJOR PRO:   If we sell and move, we can be totally out of debt within a year or two (have only mortgage). 

 

Better floor plan we will actually use, even though a few hundred square feet smaller.  Right now we have two unusable rooms and no storage or pantry.

 

Larger garage

 

Overlooks a creek, not a house, with a very private patio. 

 

 

Already has brand new stainless appliances, except for fridge. 

 

 

CONS:  One immediate neighbor is messy, and never cuts bushes or overgrowth.  It does look like the gutters were finally repaired though.  Worried about this for resale

 

Needs total renovation - new kitchen and new baths and refinished hardwoods and total painting.  I'm a "new surface" kind of person if I move, and it is time anyway, after a few tenants. Lots to coordinate and expensive.

 

We're OLD (especially me).  I've had multiple surgeries and cannot do much physical labor like I used to be able to do.  I will have to hire out EVERYTHING. 

 

One bedroom is too small for anything other than an office with a futon.  One kid will be losing a permanently furnished room. 

 

We sold a house to a nearby neighbor to this one.  They had an extremely hostile and unprofessional Realtor who threatened to sue throughout the transaction for every little thing (No cause, and no lawsuit occurred of course).  Concerned about that interaction.   

 

Furnace in garage and making a loud thump as it turns off.  Hopefully don't need a new one. 

 

So...would you do it?  The overwhelming number of details seems exhausting, and I'm only a few months out from a major surgery.  But on the other hand, debt-free and owning a house outright seems wonderful, and I can make it nice, if not large. 

 

Help me make this decision!  Spouse and kids are willing to do whatever.  Very easy going (I'm grateful). 

 

[Lanny]

What about selling both houses and buying one you like better that doesn't need much work?

 

This. And avoid the neighbor next to the rental house and the hassle of remodeling. The one thing one must never do is remodel while occupying a house. I know a couple in NY who did that.    GL with your decision!

[Amira]

I think your reasons for moving are great and a move seems logical, but not necessarily to that house. It makes sense to me to find something that works better for your needs. It seems that you can find something that matches your pros list without all the cons.

 

However, if you can do the remodeling before you move in, that could be a good option. The messy neighbor wouldn't be enough of a reason for me to not move in if the house and neighborhood were good otherwise.

[TranquilMind]

If the floor plan will make it easier on you in the long run, I'd do it.  We've moved into some of our own rental properties.  it's one of the perks!  

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.  Not to mention the capital gains tax break that we get for selling when we have lived there for 3 years. 

 

Point of clarity:  we only have mortgages right now....we will have no payments but monthly utilities if we do this.  That was kind of unclear and might have suggested that we will go from a position of more debt to only mortgage.  Not the case. 

[TranquilMind]

I think that, given what you've said, I would do it.  

If the floor plan is better, and there's nothing really *worse* about it that can't be changed, yeah... I'd do it.

Thanks.   I think I can make it pretty nice and it seems like a great house for other empty nesters or small families after we sell. 

 

You know how you never know, though.  What if the neighbors are noisy?  Or rev up a motorcycle at 6 a.m.  The stuff you don't know.....

[TranquilMind]

What about selling both houses and buying one you like better that doesn't need much work?

Well, we can do that, but that doesn't avoid the capital gains tax when we sell this just-vacated rental.  Not to mention that we already own them both.  We can move at our extreme leisure.  Not possible on someone else's timeline. 

 

I don't love this area so we really don't want to sell both and move to another in this area, and I'm not a retail buyer.  I'm not paying top dollar for someone else's work.  I've never purchased a house that didn't need work. 

 

.  We want to go out of debt.  Selling both and purchasing another does not allow us to purchase a home of similar quality to either with no mortgage.    We've owned these well over a decade. 

[TranquilMind]

:iagree:

 

That was the first thought that came into my mind, too.

 

Or... can you sell the second house and use the proceeds to pay down the mortgage on your current home?

Yes, we also considered this.  But of course, then we pay capital gains tax on the house we sell, which does not occur if we switch.  Not to mention that I HATE this floorplan in current house. This house was always supposed to be temporary and we are still here. 

 

[TammyS]

Two things that make this a potential no, to me:

 

1. The neighbor you had a contentious home sale with.  A bad neighbor can make an otherwise awesome situation into a misery.  I would honestly go over there and have a talk with them and feel it out.  If there's going to be friction (regardless of fault) I'd say, no way.  To me, home is a sanctuary and I don't want to feel any friction anywhere near (this is why I live in the middle of nowhere).

 

2. If you need to remodel, will you really be able to get out of debt?  It's one thing to put in rental grade stuff for new tenants, a whole other thing to make it the way that YOU want it.  I would definitely run some more solid numbers on that before making a decision.

 

I would seriously consider what another poster said about selling both properties and looking for an altogether new place that will suit your needs.  And I would be looking with an eye to "aging in place".

[TranquilMind]

I am a "Go with your gut" kinda gal, so no matter what I offer, I still say listen to the voice in your gut.  If you decide to move and feel nauseous, then it's the wrong decision. 

 

Anyway, my thoughts, in no particular order:

 

-  You'll have to repair/renovate anyway for new tenants, so that has to be done no matter who moves in; same for any potential furnace repairs.  And you would have to contract out those repairs anyway, right?

 

-  Can you hide messy neighbor's mess by planting large shrubbery?

 

-  I'm not clear on your realtor situation that went bad.  Will it affect the sale of your current home?

Exactly.  I always pay attention to my gut, but like to verify with others. 

At least the neighbors are not right next door or anything, and they work full time.  Hopefully, all will be well. 

 

You are right.  The work needs to be done anyway, whether we move in or a new tenant.  Either way, I'm spending money.  I will just go more upscale if it is for us, as opposed to re-renting.  The neighborhood will sustain it.  One down the street just pended at a hundred grand over what I owe on this house currently.

 

Maybe we can hide the messy shrubbery, or maybe I can make friends with those people and get my yard guy to do some of it, if they don't object.

 

Sorry the realtor situation was unclear.  It was NOT MY Realtor.  I was the Seller.    It was the Realtor for someone who just purchased another home that we owned in the same area.  Pretty close neighbor.  Realtor was terribly unprofessional during the transaction and cost them money.  I hope they aren't angry at us about this house deal.    Realtor threatened without basis to sue us after the sale because an old appliance (fully disclosed that it was old but was still working last time we used it) stopped working.  (I do believe it was the Realtor, and not the couple, but who knows).  I would have fixed it or even replaced it just because I'm a nice person, not because I was obligated in any way.  After the threats, I declined.  These people will live close.  Not a huge deal but you never know how people are. 

[TranquilMind]

This. And avoid the neighbor next to the rental house and the hassle of remodeling. The one thing one must never do is remodel while occupying a house. I know a couple in NY who did that.    GL with your decision!

This is true.  I never remodel an inhabited house.  I've been doing this awhile and the stress is too much! 

[TranquilMind]

I think your reasons for moving are great and a move seems logical, but not necessarily to that house. It makes sense to me to find something that works better for your needs. It seems that you can find something that matches your pros list without all the cons.

 

However, if you can do the remodeling before you move in, that could be a good option. The messy neighbor wouldn't be enough of a reason for me to not move in if the house and neighborhood were good otherwise.

Buying another house - other than one of these two which we already own - will not be as cost effective as living in a house that is 2/3 paid off.    I will pay NOT pay retail prices (unless I happen upon another dated one that needs work.  I don't do retail). 

 

It's all about ditching mortgages entirely that appeals to me at the moment.  Imagine paying only utilities every month!  Kids will likely not be home much, given what they are doing now, and the stages of life they are in.  Sad, though.

   

Maybe I will get into this and just find it too much work.  Then, I can just switch courses and put it on the market for rent or sale.   I have SO MUCH Stuff here!  Argh. Family all dead so I have it all.  A hundred years of photos, etc.   

 

My goal is to move only the few things I care about and buy all new furniture and have it delivered to the other house, if we do this.  Move over with a few boxes. and sell everything out of this house before putting it on the market. 

[bettyandbob]

OK are there still advantages to selling primary residence? I don't keep up with real estate law. However, it used to be that you could keep more of the proceeds from the sale of your primary residence. If this is the case, it may be another reason it's advantageous to move. So, your current home and get the advantage of selling your primary residence and then live in your rental so it becomes your primary residence. If it turns out rental is a bad place for you, in 3 years you will be able to sell that and take advantage of the primary residence benefits again (has to be at least 3 years apart)

 

disregard if I am really out of date with the sale of primary residence rules. 

[TranquilMind]

Two things that make this a potential no, to me:

 

1. The neighbor you had a contentious home sale with.  A bad neighbor can make an otherwise awesome situation into a misery.  I would honestly go over there and have a talk with them and feel it out.  If there's going to be friction (regardless of fault) I'd say, no way.  To me, home is a sanctuary and I don't want to feel any friction anywhere near (this is why I live in the middle of nowhere).

 

2. If you need to remodel, will you really be able to get out of debt?  It's one thing to put in rental grade stuff for new tenants, a whole other thing to make it the way that YOU want it.  I would definitely run some more solid numbers on that before making a decision.

 

I would seriously consider what another poster said about selling both properties and looking for an altogether new place that will suit your needs.  And I would be looking with an eye to "aging in place".

Yes, we can still do it and go out of debt, but slowly, and by cutting all middlemen out.  I have a list of pretty good contractors assembled from all my years of landlording, though I have lost a couple I will need to replace because they moved or aged out. 

 

I've never really done rental grade stuff.  I can't help myself.  If I do it, I do it nicely, though I have never put in granite countertops, which I am considering for the first time. 

 

Eh....I don't want to look at new houses.  Inertia will win and I will just stay here, rather than pack up my family's 40+ years of stuff and move it all to a third house on someone else's timeline and have to worry about selling quickly.   So I'm pretty certain I will likely not do this, unless some gem comes on the market very soon.  One around the corner just sold for a hundred grand over auction price after renovation.  I would do that. 

[TranquilMind]

OK are there still advantages to selling primary residence? I don't keep up with real estate law. However, it used to be that you could keep more of the proceeds from the sale of your primary residence. If this is the case, it may be another reason it's advantageous to move. So, your current home and get the advantage of selling your primary residence and then live in your rental so it becomes your primary residence. If it turns out rental is a bad place for you, in 3 years you will be able to sell that and take advantage of the primary residence benefits again (has to be at least 3 years apart)

 

disregard if I am really out of date with the sale of primary residence rules. 

Yes, you can exclude capital gains tax if you sell your own residence you have inhabited it the last  3 out of 5 years, as I recall. It used to be 2 years. 

 

Yes, we sell current home, and keep all proceeds, then move to the other house we own as our personal residence for 3 more years, and then sell that one and keep all proceeds.  This is something we considered doing about 15 years ago, moving to our rentals one by one, but the time never seemed right.  Now it does. 

 

Another advantage.  Our lovely state doubles property taxes on rental properties.  Taxes will drop by half if we move in, and monthly payment will drop hundreds of dollars.  We will pay off in a couple of years or even less. 

 

If we hate it, we are out in 3 years.  I have a kid still in high school, so that's ok.  We think of moving overseas in the future anyway.

[ElizabethB]

Can your child or children do some of the work with you supervising? At that age, my brother and I helped my dad fix up houses to rent them out in the summers. After he retired from his teaching job, he did that full time. He has done well with it, which is good, because he gets almost nothing from his teacher retirement once they pay for health care.

[The Girls' Mom]

I vote for moving to the rental.  You'll put yourself in a better position financially, and have a better layout.  

About not knowing how loud the neighborhood is, etc....can you stay at the rental for a week or so to get a feel for it?

[TranquilMind]

Can your child or children do some of the work with you supervising? At that age, my brother and I helped my dad fix up houses to rent them out in the summers. After he retired from his teaching job, he did that full time. He has done well with it, which is good, because he gets almost nothing from his teacher retirement once they pay for health care.

Yes, I have one who can help when out of school.   

[TranquilMind]

I vote for moving to the rental.  You'll put yourself in a better position financially, and have a better layout.  

 

About not knowing how loud the neighborhood is, etc....can you stay at the rental for a week or so to get a feel for it?

That is a good idea but it is entirely empty. 

[ElizabethB]

That is a good idea but it is entirely empty.

When we move, we camp out in an empty house for a few days at the end and the beginning instead of staying at a hotel. We keep a box of kitchen stuff, basic pans, wooden spoons, basic spices, a full silverware set, use paper plates. We use camping foam mattresses with a sheet and quilt or sleeping bag. We sometimes keep a few camping chairs, and generally use a moving box as a table. It might be worth it to test out before committing to the area.

[Hikin' Mama]

Creek and patio would seal the deal for me. :)

[AnIslandGirl]

What about moving into the rental, but renting out your primary with a short term lease? That way if the rental isn't what you had envisioned, you still have the familiar to move back into. Just a thought.

[prairiewindmomma]

I'd move into the rental if I could comfortably pony up 30-40k in renovations or move in and live with it mostly as is and sell in 3 years to avoid capital gains.

 

Our kitchen and bathroom renos were done with me calling in guys...it's doable but a lot of chaos. We have done floors, windows, kitchen, and bathrooms since we moved in. The kitchen created was the messiest.

[Starr]

Are you considering renovation and possible furnace in your costs for debt free? Is there enough room for your dc for the next few years? They don't seem to disappear after high school. :D Do you have the energy required for moving and renovating?

[aggie96]

Recapturing property taxes and eliminating capital gains taxes would seal the deal for us.  Renovate and move.  :)

[Guest]

Do it! The financial and daily life gains are big ones.

[TranquilMind]

Are you considering renovation and possible furnace in your costs for debt free? Is there enough room for your dc for the next few years? They don't seem to disappear after high school. :D Do you have the energy required for moving and renovating?

I will have the energy to supervise.  :)

 

I won't be doing any heavy lifting.

 

We went again today to measure for tiling and refinishing hardwoods.  Teen is warming up to the idea.  My van barely cleared the garage door though!  Narrow. 

[TranquilMind]

Do it! The financial and daily life gains are big ones.

That sounds good.  I asked my kid, "Wouldn't it be nice to say, "Hey Mom, can I backpack around Europe all summer?" and I say yes?"

[TranquilMind]

Recapturing property taxes and eliminating capital gains taxes would seal the deal for us.  Renovate and move.   :)

Definitely seriously considering it.   Thank you!

[TranquilMind]

What about moving into the rental, but renting out your primary with a short term lease? That way if the rental isn't what you had envisioned, you still have the familiar to move back into. Just a thought.

That's a good idea, but I don't know if I want tenants in MY HOUSE.  ;) 

[Catwoman]

That sounds good. I asked my kid, "Wouldn't it be nice to say, "Hey Mom, can I backpack around Europe all summer?" and I say yes?:"

At least your kid would ask about backpacking. My kid would ask if he could take a tour of 5-star hotels in Europe all summer.

 

And I would say no because I am a Mean Mom. ;)

[KungFuPanda]

If I were drastically downsizing, and had to hire out everything, I'd go for a condo.

[TranquilMind]

If I were drastically downsizing, and had to hire out everything, I'd go for a condo.

I don't want to be that close to anyone.  These houses are on very large lots but I have a landscaper who I actually found while driving this neighborhood.  I stopped the most diligently working man I saw working on the yard (with a truck out front, so it wasn't a home owner!).  I hired him on the spot, as I had lost my previous guy, and he has now been my lawn guy for almost a decade. 

 

You do have a good point though, that I would not have to worry about the exterior.  But you pay huge maintenance fees for that, and I can find people easily. 

[TranquilMind]

At least your kid would ask about backpacking. My kid would ask if he could take a tour of 5-star hotels in Europe all summer.

 

And I would say no because I am a Mean Mom. ;)

Ha ha.

 

Yeah, I've raised some frugal people.  We have reproduced after our own kind. My Depression-era parents would be proud. 

[Seasider]

What about selling both houses and buying one you like better that doesn't need much work?

Yes!

[RKWAcademy]

It is a very relaxing feeling not to have a mortgage.  However, you'll have more than just utilities.  You still have taxes and insurance to think about, too.  And savings for broken air conditioners.  I don't know what to recommend because I don't make wise housing choices.  But I'm still smarting from recent big expenses (AC!) and a half-remodeled kitchen (that is still better than the old kitchen!).  Good luck! 

[TranquilMind]

It is a very relaxing feeling not to have a mortgage.  However, you'll have more than just utilities.  You still have taxes and insurance to think about, too.  And savings for broken air conditioners.  I don't know what to recommend because I don't make wise housing choices.  But I'm still smarting from recent big expenses (AC!) and a half-remodeled kitchen (that is still better than the old kitchen!).  Good luck! 

Yes, that's true, taxes and insurance.  But that is only maybe 2 grand a year total here (once I ditch the landlord taxes, which double the property tax).  Insurance is only a few hundred. 

 

That's totally doable.  I'm already planning on a new furnace and AC since they don't last long these days.  This one was installed in the early 2000's.  Should still be good, but you know, planned obsolescence....

[sassenach]

If you're going to do it, do it now. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but none of us are getting any younger. If your health is a concern, I would want to make the move and go through the trouble now, rather than waiting any longer.

 

It seems like a wise plan to me.

[TranquilMind]

If you're going to do it, do it now. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but none of us are getting any younger. If your health is a concern, I would want to make the move and go through the trouble now, rather than waiting any longer.

 

It seems like a wise plan to me.

That's a good point, but no, I'm fine!  Perfectly healthy.  Just had some after effects from an original surgery that had to be repaired a couple of times. I won't be heavy lifting any more, just to be safe.    But you are right that we aren't getting any younger.  All of this is going to be needed to be done at some time and I don't want to leave my kids with 50 years of stuff  to weed through, as I had to do. 

[Scarlett]

I read the entire thread and I can say yes you should do it. I can tell it is what you want and it makes good sense.

 

We are mortgage free and let me tell you...although we don't have a fancy home life is much less stressful knowing it is ours free and clear. Our taxes here are only $800...I highly recommend it.

[TranquilMind]

I read the entire thread and I can say yes you should do it. I can tell it is what you want and it makes good sense.

 

We are mortgage free and let me tell you...although we don't have a fancy home life is much less stressful knowing it is ours free and clear. Our taxes here are only $800...I highly recommend it.

Thanks. 

Mortgage free sounds awesome. Today, I went over there and it does seem small.  So much work.  I don't know if I'm up to it and where I will store everything.  Our neighborhood is slightly better but our best friends here are moving away this fall anyway.

Ah...so many decisions.  Plus it is hard getting contractors to call you back. 

[Susan C.]

Does your current home have two full bathrooms? That one and a half bath would be a deal breaker for me. Even if I were an empty nester!! You still have kids at home, and when they move out, they will visit, overnight if they move away.  I would be tempted to put renters in the smaller one for a few more years, then revisit the issue.

[Scarlett]

Does your current home have two full bathrooms? That one and a half bath would be a deal breaker for me. Even if I were an empty nester!! You still have kids at home, and when they move out, they will visit, overnight if they move away. I would be tempted to put renters in the smaller one for a few more years, then revisit the issue.

I would definitely very much WANT two bathrooms. Is that something that could be remedied? Sometimes make a half into a full is not difficult...other times it is.

[TranquilMind]

Does your current home have two full bathrooms? That one and a half bath would be a deal breaker for me. Even if I were an empty nester!! You still have kids at home, and when they move out, they will visit, overnight if they move away.  I would be tempted to put renters in the smaller one for a few more years, then revisit the issue.

Yes, current has two.  This one has 1.5 and no, it cannot be remedied in this particular house. Something to think about, for sure.