Tanaqui Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You can be loving and caring and still abuse your child. Preventing your child from having anything like a normal life, keeping them, even as an adult, from being able to work, travel, or go to school is by definition abusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Why is there no way for an adult to get the necessary documents without parental assistance? There are lots of crazy parents, there should be a way for their children to cut ties and move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Really? Abusive just because they didn't get a birth certificate? We know several homeschooling families whose kids are "under the radar." They were born at home and don't have birth certificates or SSNs. Yeah, I think they're a little paranoid. I think they're making it difficult for their kids, I think they're wrong, but no way are they abusive. They're loving, caring parents who don't trust the government. Yes, I consider this abuse. The same kind of abuse as discouraging college, or a paid career for women. Functionally and radically limiting options and opportunities for children is abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 This is something I always wondered about. My guess would be that the parents are self employed, and don't pay taxes, other than maybe property tax. Texas takes a sales tax break sometime in August also, so they probably pay almost no taxes and she is forcing them to be on the radar? Lots of families have a scapegoat that they do not allow the normal privileges of the other kids. It is often the oldest. To a point, my parents did not do many things for me the did for my siblings. I think my mother feels slightly (and I mean slightly) bad about it now, but my dad is just clueless. My MIL was not allowed to learn to drive. Even when she moved away and got married her parents were very upset when her dh taught her to drive and they never let her use their car even to run to the store for something they wanted when she was visiting them. Very, very odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 There are lots of crazy parents, there should be a way for their children to cut ties and move forward. Not even just crazy parents, but overwhelmed parents . I know when we had to get the birth certificates and/or social security numbers for our kids, it wasn't an easy simple process, even after they were born. I can't remember the details (I had just given birth!), but I remember one of the nurses or hospital workers giving my DH very specific information about how to get these things in the most efficient way, because otherwise it could be very cumbersome. I can only imagine how many uneducated parents might not do these things, not because they are abusive or trying to withhold the documents, but because it can be overwhelming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 That's a lot of fabric!! Well except for the man's clothes. Did you see the snakeskin print leggings? Very tight, very thin, very yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joules Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/02/11/james-and-lisa-pennington-respond-to-identification-abuse-claims/ One of the links in the article you posted may shed some light on the home environment (if it is true). The mom posted about her daughter leaving. She deleted the post, but it was archived: https://homeschoolersanonymous.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/the-hardest-post-i-ever-wrote-the-pennington-point.pdf It seems very odd how surprised and devastated she was that her 18yo grew up and moved out. I mean I'll be sad when mine leaves the nest (OK, really sad), but I don't expect to be feeling betrayed. Isn't growing up what they are supposed to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It seems like a lawyer could take care of this pretty easily. It's not like there has never been a person who showed up here without documents. What do refugees do? I know it is not easy and takes a lot of time, but it isn't insurmountable. A good lawyer and a helpful judge could work wonders in this situation. I can't imagine there aren't several lawyers in Texas who wouldn't be willing to offer their services to this young woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Really? Abusive just because they didn't get a birth certificate? We know several homeschooling families whose kids are "under the radar." They were born at home and don't have birth certificates or SSNs. Yeah, I think they're a little paranoid. I think they're making it difficult for their kids, I think they're wrong, but no way are they abusive. They're loving, caring parents who don't trust the government. Yes, abusive. If people want to do this to themselves, to voluntarily remove themselves from society, that's their choice. But to force another person to be unable to go to school, get a job, vote, and on and on and on... That's abuse. Children aren't property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It seems like a lawyer could take care of this pretty easily. It's not like there has never been a person who showed up here without documents. What do refugees do? I know it is not easy and takes a lot of time, but it isn't insurmountable. A good lawyer and a helpful judge could work wonders in this situation. I can't imagine there aren't several lawyers in Texas who wouldn't be willing to offer their services to this young woman. If it was that easy to just hire a lawyer and get brand new documents based on your word and nothing else, we would have a huge problem with people taking on new identities every time they had too much debt or something. For practical reasons, it has to be difficult, and if her parents are unwilling to vouch for her, it may very well be almost impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well except for the man's clothes. Did you see the snakeskin print leggings? Very tight, very thin, very yuck. Or the men's glitter pants! Pink ones! :svengo: Though pairing the pink glitter pants with Uggs was a strange choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If it was that easy to just hire a lawyer and get brand new documents based on your word and nothing else, we would have a huge problem with people taking on new identities every time they had too much debt or something. For practical reasons, it has to be difficult, and if her parents are unwilling to vouch for her, it may very well be almost impossible. With a good lawyer nothing is impossible in this country. I didn't say it would be fast or easy for her, but certainly not impossible. I did say 'easily' but I was more thinking of the legal part. A good law firm would find a path Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It seems like a lawyer could take care of this pretty easily. It's not like there has never been a person who showed up here without documents. What do refugees do? I know it is not easy and takes a lot of time, but it isn't insurmountable. A good lawyer and a helpful judge could work wonders in this situation. I can't imagine there aren't several lawyers in Texas who wouldn't be willing to offer their services to this young woman. A good lawyer costs money. Since she can't work it's hard to have the money to pay for a lawyer. Perhaps the place to start may be through pro bono legal services at a women's shelter, because they may have dealt with people needing to get copies of documents. But this will be more work than that because these documents may never have existed in the first place. If these documents were easy to come up with new stealing a person's identity wouldn't be necessary for criminals. Documents are very important and with holding them from anyone is abuse. An adult without documents can land in an abyss. Mehran Karimi Nasseri lived in a airport terminal for years (decades?) when his documents were lost. If this girl did not have grandparents where would she live. She will be forever dependent on someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Or the men's glitter pants! Pink ones! :svengo: Though pairing the pink glitter pants with Uggs was a strange choice. I'm sure it makes sense after enough weed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I didn't get a social security number until I was 16 or 17. I did need my birth certificate for it. But the mother says one was filed? I'm not one FB so I can't look there but did they ask the (is it county?) where she was born if there was one filed and then ask for a copy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowerlady Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yes, they have searched and looked for the certificate. Nothing was found. If the mom says one was filed, she should be easily able to get a copy for her dd. We will see if that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowerlady Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 She just posted on FB that a lawyer has agreed to help. I hope it all works out for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I thought I read something last night that led me to believe her father is an attorney. A tax lawyer? If so, why is he not helping his daughter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well except for the man's clothes. Did you see the snakeskin print leggings? Very tight, very thin, very yuck. Somebody should outlaw man-leggings. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I thought I read something last night that led me to believe her father is an attorney. A tax lawyer? If so, why is he not helping his daughter? I think the mom's blog identifies him somewhere as an accountant. If that is true, I find not having documents on their own child really strange. As an accountant, I'm sure he has an SSN. He most likely has a birth certificate too. The only reason I can think of for not having documents is so you can completely control the lives of the younger generation, like you were forming a cult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa R. Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 One of the links in the article you posted may shed some light on the home environment (if it is true). The mom posted about her daughter leaving. She deleted the post, but it was archived: https://homeschoolersanonymous.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/the-hardest-post-i-ever-wrote-the-pennington-point.pdf It seems very odd how surprised and devastated she was that her 18yo grew up and moved out. I mean I'll be sad when mine leaves the nest (OK, really sad), but I don't expect to be feeling betrayed. Isn't growing up what they are supposed to do? This blog post would be appropriate if the girl was joining ISIS. Instead, she's and 18 year old moving in with her GRANDPARENTS. The post says a lot about the type of parent she is. It's just...suffocating reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I read the transcribed response of Mom. Who doesn't know if, where, and the need for a birth certificate AND social for their child? Sorry, but the "we aren't blocking her and we love her" is unsufficient for having created, birthed, and raised a child in the US in the 1990's and 2000's and not HAVE those items and know where they are. I never needed it for mine until they were either going job hunting or doing college prep stuff like the ACT. My parents didn't give me mine until I got a real job and needed to show it for employment. In my state, they don't automaticly send you a birth certificate, but one is filed by the medical person who was at the delivery of the baby. You have to pay iirc, $5-15 per copy and request it be mailed to you. If you are low income and don't have $5, no copy for you. I didn't get 2 of my kids birth certs until they were a few years old. One because their birth was in the middle of medical crisis and funerals and paperwork of any kind was low on the survival to do list. The other we were flat broke at the time and then forgot about it as we moved shortly after that. The social security card comes automaticly and without cost, so I had that for tax purposes. I've never had an insurance company or dr office or hospital ask for any identification on my kids. They have asked for MY ID and insurance card, but that's it. All of which is beside the point. It doesn't matter why they do or don't have it. Her allegations are that they won't help her. They say they will and have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 This blog post would be appropriate if the girl was joining ISIS. Instead, she's and18 year old moving in with her GRANDPARENTS. The post says a lot about the type of parent she is. It's just...suffocating reading it. Exactly. Who has a breakdown over their ADULT daughter moving in with a family member? They made it sound like it was nearby, too, so it's not like she moved across country. Totally bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellydon Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I thought I read something last night that led me to believe her father is an attorney. A tax lawyer? If so, why is he not helping his daughter? Yes, he is an attorney, previously an accountant. The parents are telling half truths. All the children, including the adults, live at home under parental supervision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I have no idea which is telling the truth. Idk why that original post is saying they can't find the parent responses because I'm having zero problem doing so. Hardest post. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2014/10/hardest-post-ever-wrote/ Beautiful Mess. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2015/01/beautiful-mess/ She doesn't speak much about the kids themselves, especially the older ones, but then again, there's been lots of talk lately amoung us moms of olders about why we don't do that too. Privacy for one. It's ine thing for me to post my frustration with a toddler or 2nd grader. It's another to do so with a teen or adult child. And that's how many feel when things are going great. I can't fathom feeling less so when things are hitting the fan whether it is the parents fault or not. And I don't have any respect for the grandparents. Zero. There's no way they come out of this in a flattering manner. They'd be dead to me if they did that to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. Clothing for rich hippies...did you see the prices? Wowza!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Not even just crazy parents, but overwhelmed parents . I know when we had to get the birth certificates and/or social security numbers for our kids, it wasn't an easy simple process, even after they were born. I can't remember the details (I had just given birth!), but I remember one of the nurses or hospital workers giving my DH very specific information about how to get these things in the most efficient way, because otherwise it could be very cumbersome. I can only imagine how many uneducated parents might not do these things, not because they are abusive or trying to withhold the documents, but because it can be overwhelming. One of my children was born at home with a midwife, and another at home unassisted--I agree, it is not as easy and straightforward when you have a newborn. It did feel overwhelming and "unnecessary." I obviously got around to doing it, as my birth choices had nothing to do with not trusting the government, but it was a pain, and it was done months later. And if we didn't have to travel abroad with the babies, who knows when I would've gotten their birth certificates. And I'm an educated person, btw. I just don't like completing forms and waiting in lines and dealing with incompetent government workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 I didn't get a social security number until I was 16 or 17. I did need my birth certificate for it. But the mother says one was filed? I'm not one FB so I can't look there but did they ask the (is it county?) where she was born if there was one filed and then ask for a copy? The transcript reads a bit more vague, that the parents "thought" one had been filed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I didn't get a copy of my DS's birth certificate until he was a couple years old, BUT there was a record of his birth. There is no record of this girl's birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Clothing for rich hippies...did you see the prices? Wowza!!!! 16 yards of fabric make for an expensive blouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I don't know. Her religious gibberish is annoying, but common whether they are home schoolers or not. So I have to read Blahblahblah oh detail to note when reading her blog. But I can tell you right now if ANYONE on my side of the family went behind my back to sneak any of my kids to live with them, I'd be near hysterical. There's a reason I have extremely little to do with my family and I don't owe anyone the details to make that decision as an adult and as a mother, not even those relatives. Given that, no, going to live in town with grandparents or aunts would NOT make me feel calmer at all. I'd handle it 100% better if they got a roommate and a crappy appartment in the bad side of town. I'd be hurt and worried, but that's normal. I have a 20 year old and a 18 year old, both graduated living at home. So what? They live here because the food is good and the rent is cheap (free!) They are saving their money, holding down jobs and or going to college. Even so, if I came home one evening and found out some relative had been whispering evil about me to my kid(s) and encouraging them to move out in a no discussion, no anything - just gone manner. Yeah. I'd be very upset and very hurt and feel betrayed. That's a whole other ballgame from a simple fairly normal 18 year old wants to move out and I just think it unwise timing/ situation scenario. I still might think it unwise but I wouldn't feel betrayed or lied to about it and other than stating my concerns, I'd probably help them pack and set up in new place. I doubt we know the full story of either side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It really doesn't matter what Alecia's side of the story is. It's not like she's a runaway minor. She's an adult who for reasons that are good or bad, does not want to live with her parents anymore. She has that right. Her parents have no right withholding any of her documents from her. They also don't have a right to put conditions on giving them to her (other than saying they no longer will financially support her -that's their only right). They can't say they'll give them to her only if she meets them in person, or comes home, or whatever. I have no doubt that regardless of what I think of the parents (and I do think they're nutty to the extreme), they are probably heartbroken. That still doesn't give them the right to withhold what rightfully belongs to their adult daughter, namely any documents that she would need for an independent life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'd handle it 100% better if they got a roommate and a crappy appartment in the bad side of town. I'd be hurt and worried, but that's normal. She can't live with a roommate because she has no income to pay her share. She has no income because she can't get a job. And she can't get a job because... Unless exploring lucrative illegal means of income is better than living with grandma... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 I have no idea which is telling the truth. Idk why that original post is saying they can't find the parent responses because I'm having zero problem doing so. Hardest post. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2014/10/hardest-post-ever-wrote/ Beautiful Mess. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2015/01/beautiful-mess/ She doesn't speak much about the kids themselves, especially the older ones, but then again, there's been lots of talk lately amoung us moms of olders about why we don't do that too. Privacy for one. It's ine thing for me to post my frustration with a toddler or 2nd grader. It's another to do so with a teen or adult child. And that's how many feel when things are going great. I can't fathom feeling less so when things are hitting the fan whether it is the parents fault or not. And I don't have any respect for the grandparents. Zero. There's no way they come out of this in a flattering manner. They'd be dead to me if they did that to us. Extreme parents make extreme decisions for their children. Granted, ALL parents make decisions for their children. But when the content of those decisions is counter cultural, extreme, civil disobedience - at least have the guts to admit that YOU chose that life and the consequences for the kids. I remember the moment I tried to insist my oldest represent and hold a view **I** had. It was a huge turning point when I realized I had no right to expect him to chose that point as well. The amount of time Lisa plays the "Holy Spirit" and "God" card is epic and detracts from any validity she might have. The grandparents worked with an adult child who could not have her wishes expressed. Thank God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Exactly. Who has a breakdown over their ADULT daughter moving in with a family member? They made it sound like it was nearby, too, so it's not like she moved across country. Totally bizarre. Well....It sound like her breakdown is over their relationship falling apart, not her moving out per se. You wouldn't find it heart breaking that your 18 year old, with whom you assumed to have a close relationship, suddenly refused to talk to you and moved out without an explanation?? *That* would be totally bizarre. What *I* find totally bizarre is that she's choosing God over her child, but that's why I'm not religious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 She can't live with a roommate because she has no income to pay her share. She has no income because she can't get a job. And she can't get a job because... Unless exploring lucrative illegal means of income is better than living with grandma... And most people won't rent to you without a background check. And you can't provide identification for a background check if you don't have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I doubt we know the full story of either side. Agreed. Especially because someone I know RL knows this family and has spent time with them in RL and is very complimentary of the family, even while distancing herself from some of their views. I'm becoming suspicious of rebellious teenager who has taken her complaint public before dealing with her parents privately first along with a complicit media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I hope she gets her birth certificate, SSN, and drivers license. And after reading the modesty section of the mom's blog, I hope she gets a pixie cut, and starts wear tank tops and yoga pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I don't side with the parents on this at all since they still haven't produced the documentation she needs to be independent. It baffles me. So, it makes it easier for me to believe the girl because here she is still without any ID to be her own person. If her parents truly wanted to help I don't understand why they wouldn't have given her what she needed immediately instead of this still going on months later. I'm glad she had the grandparents to take her in because it probably made her feel safer making this public so she could get the help she needs. Since a lawyer has now agreed to help her, it seems to have worked and I hope she gets all she needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Agreed. Especially because someone I know RL knows this family and has spent time with them in RL and is very complimentary of the family, even while distancing herself from some of their views. I'm becoming suspicious of rebellious teenager who has taken her complaint public before dealing with her parents privately first along with a complicit media. There's enough crazy on mom's blog that I'm inclined to believe the daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Exactly. Who has a breakdown over their ADULT daughter moving in with a family member? Answer: Any adult with NPD parents or abusive ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 And I don't have any respect for the grandparents. Zero. There's no way they come out of this in a flattering manner. They'd be dead to me if they did that to us. Well, I for one completely respect the grandparents. The girl is an adult. She asked family for help. They didn't DO anything to the parents, except take away their ability to be abusive and controlling. They are helping their grandchild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Agreed. Especially because someone I know RL knows this family and has spent time with them in RL and is very complimentary of the family, even while distancing herself from some of their views. I'm becoming suspicious of rebellious teenager who has taken her complaint public before dealing with her parents privately first along with a complicit media. The mom's blog post was written last October and stated they had already met with her. Yet, she still has no identification to be an independent person. I would have taken it public too so I could get what I needed. This doesn't scream rebellious teenager to me. It does crazy, controlling parents though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I have no idea which is telling the truth. Idk why that original post is saying they can't find the parent responses because I'm having zero problem doing so. Hardest post. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2014/10/hardest-post-ever-wrote/ Beautiful Mess. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2015/01/beautiful-mess/ She doesn't speak much about the kids themselves, especially the older ones, but then again, there's been lots of talk lately amoung us moms of olders about why we don't do that too. Privacy for one. It's ine thing for me to post my frustration with a toddler or 2nd grader. It's another to do so with a teen or adult child. And that's how many feel when things are going great. I can't fathom feeling less so when things are hitting the fan whether it is the parents fault or not. And I don't have any respect for the grandparents. Zero. There's no way they come out of this in a flattering manner. They'd be dead to me if they did that to us. Well, if there was abuse going on in the home, or if the girl was going to leave anyway, and was planning to sleep on the streets or in an unsafe situation, I'd be glad the grandparents were there. Angry, but would realize they were at least a safe place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Where do they live? I did just a touch of googling and it looks like in most (if not all) states, the midwife is required to file the birth certificate. So that would be on the midwife, not the parents. So a lawyer should look into whether the midwife upheld the law or not and respond accordingly. If there is a birth certificate there, then I think the grandparents should be able to show their ID to obtain it since they are blood relatives, but a lawyer should know that. Obviously it is harder if the parents don't cooperate. Maybe the lawyer will get them to cooperate even if it just putting their signature on a form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowerlady Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Agreed. Especially because someone I know RL knows this family and has spent time with them in RL and is very complimentary of the family, even while distancing herself from some of their views. I'm becoming suspicious of rebellious teenager who has taken her complaint public before dealing with her parents privately first along with a complicit media. I am not sure the rebellious teenager description fits. She isn't 15, she is over 18. A young adult. Against whom is she rebelling? Seems to me she is doing what most people think a young adult should do. People say if a young adult doesn't like the rules and expectations at home, they can move out. I would feel awful it was done behind my back also. So I understand the mom's feelings with that part. It surely feels like a betrayal. If she came to them and said she was ready to move out , I wonder what would have been their response. Guilt? Bible verses? But that is all beside the point to me in regard to documentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Under Texas law, it was the physician or midwife who was responsible for filing of birth certificates. Parents are responsible only if no midwife or physician was present at the birth. I do not see this as any form of abuse except on the midwife's part. Since she missed the 5 day period, uhm by about 18 years, she probably does not want to pay the fine or go before the licensing board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I don't think anything in particular about this story except that everyone seems to be in a bad spot. I know people who have not caught up with the impossibility of doing much in modern life without a SSN. It didn't used to be so pervasively crucial. I am in my 50's and I have seen it change in my own lifetime. I can imagine people who already own their own house and have jobs or businesses not really realizing that you can't get those without a SSN anymore, or not really believing that it's so hard for someone to get one on their own. And maybe being so hurt or insulted by being treated deceptively by their parents and kids that they don't feel any obligation to take personal action themselves. I can also imagine people being controlling and having this be part of the control freak-ness. And I don't really care to develop an opinion on this. I am clear that I don't have the information to do so. The cases I have opinions on, because they are so much more clear cut than this, are ones like this one:http://www.latimes.com/great-reads/la-na-utah-lost-boys-20130508-dto-htmlstory.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Wouldn't it be something if some of these grown-up ninja babies of religious nutcases found themselves involved in sex or drug trafficking, prostitution, or organized crime just because they really, really, really needed some cash to survive? Or died due to not having health insurance or even an identity, got lost in the paperwork or went unapproved for a procedure... the rest of the globe wouldn't be surprised. Why not? Because these are the risks of an undocumented life. One of the benefits of being born in the USA is that you are a CITIZEN. You have the rights of a citizen for the rest of your life, if someone will just go ahead and verify that you were indeed born here. What a thing to deny a person! It's not always about character, when desperate people take desperate measures. It's about survival. These religious nutcases are removing societal and civil protection from their children, effectively turning them into undocumented persons with a shadow existence right here in an industrialized nation. They are not all going to have sympathetic grandparents. Some of them are going to have to fight their way out and up, and anybody who thinks that might not, very likely, involve some serious danger, risk, and crime, is living in a dream world. We went over this topic/discussion when Michael Pearl (religious nutcase) first said to forego birth certificates for babies, and shared the little detail that his daughters did not have lawful marriage licenses. We noted that without legal status, a young "wife" is a live-in girlfriend (until the years go by that allow her to be classified as a common law wife, if she even lives in a state where that's still true) without legal protection for herself or her children. She is to be considered by her own people as that man's property, anyway, so what do they care if she has no rights? The rest of society doesn't consider her or her children to be property, but they can't recognize it as a marriage, either. Child support, property rights, health care, all affected. I agree with Farrar. If we wish our lifestyle as sane, academic type homeschoolers to survive, we are going to have to loudly and forcibly distance ourselves from the people using homeschooling as a mask for the evil they perpetrate upon their own children. But you know what? I don't think it will work for the long term. We may holler as loud as we like, but as more stories emerge of abused, neglected, and marginalized children, we will lose our rights one by one. The nation is not in an independent-minded mood right now. Legislation and government solutions, at all levels, are seen as more effective and protective of children than depending on families to do the right things. Right or wrong, that's a sea change, and we should be paying attention. Not to mention the new fascination with data collection and lifelong tracking for children, which are a lot harder to enforce on homeschooled families. But once these things are the norm for over 95% of the nation's kids, it will be seen as unacceptable for anyone not to be in the system. We're in a grace period while the bugs are being worked out, IMO. Homeschooling has only been legal since the 80s. I will be astounded if it's still allowed, in the form that we know it, in just a few more years. I'm not a tinfoil hat person (anymore) or afraid of the government. If the time comes that we have to choose between enrolling kids in public school or standing shoulder to shoulder with the likes of the Penningtons and Pearls, I will hold my nose and join the PTA. And that's a sea change for me. In the past I would have stood with almost anyone who wants to claim a right to homeschool, as long as the kids of my fellow warriors were safe. But they aren't always safe, are they. The religious nutcases have gone too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I just spent a few minutes on Google and it looks like she just went to the press and did the video this month. Is that right? If so, I really don't understand those who say she didn't try to work this out privately and just ran to the media. The mom's post was in October of last year and said they met with her. So, Alecia waited several months before taking it public. The parents have had more than enough time to truly help her if they wanted. She has a whole list on her FB page about what she has done. The first being on October 1, 2014. She went to the state (TX) and they did a thorough search and found no record of her birth. I think finally going to the media and making this public was her only option. The parents have brought this attention on themselves by not doing what they should have done in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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