How non-homeschoolers can help homeschoolers

[Xahm]

Here's my update from post 69. 

 Here goes what I should have asked: I have a friend who is homeschooling. She's doing an amazing job, but she's got the deck stacked against her in some ways economically and socially. She's pretty much family, and I want to know, how can I, as someone who is not a homeschooler, be helpful and supportive to her?  We see each other often, and she often brings up how and what her child is doing. I will admit that part of my brain, the part that loves to plan and thinks I know best, would love to try to take over, but I know this is a horrible, no-good idea that would not help me, the mother, the child, and certainly not our friendship. One thing I've already done is tell her about a great used book sale in the area. She was excited, but the timing didn't work out for her to go. I offered to pick up books for her. She made some requests, including for workbooks at her child's level. I really don't like the idea of a bunch of workbooks, I'll admit again, but that's not my business. I honored her request, picking up a few workbooks, a few early readers, and a couple of books that I happen to know they will be really excited about.  It makes me feel good to be helpful in this way, but when I see how hard she's working, I want to do more! What can I do for her, and what can I do for my other friends who are also planning to homeschool despite some difficult circumstances?

And here's what I have figured out the answer is, thanks to your supportive and critical comments:  Being a friend is helping, even if it feels like I should be doing more. What she likely needs is that listening, non-judgmental ear. Babysitting during a conference, or just so she can go to a coffee shop and have a few minutes to herself, would probably also be a good thing to offer. She's doing an amazing feat of balancing life already, and I should learn from that. When amazing opportunities come up, I should let her know about them with no expectations. When I come across a book I think her child would love, I'll pass it along and then be sure not to, especially not surreptitiously, check to see if it was read. If she has any worries, I'll talk with her about them, and she'll probably come up with the right answer without me saying much at all. Just keep developing friendship, keep being there for her, and that will help her, and me, more than anything I could plan out.

 

 

 

I have a lot of friends who homeschool, and chances are I will too, at least at some seasons of our childrens' lives, in the future. I want to be a supportive, helpful friend. With many of my friends, this is easy. They are experienced or have thought things through a lot, so I'm good with being a sounding board, oohing and aahing over children's accomplishments, and keeping my opinions to myself if they are doing something that I, in my utterly inexperienced state, think I would never in a million years do.

 

With one friend, though, I really want to help more. I don't want to risk violating her privacy, so I'll be vague and say that she's close to me but I don't know her super well yet, her financial situation isn't the best, and her child is early elementary, advanced for her age.  Mom has to work, and while she fits homeschooling and mothering around that very well, she really doesn't have time for researching, learning about how children learn, etc. I offered to pick up some books at a (dirt cheap but very good) used book sale and asked what would be helpful. She named a few topics of interest to her child and then also added "workbooks." I asked what kind, and her answer was "X-grade," which made me think she hasn't really planned things out all that much. This isn't too concerning because her child is ahead and advancing, but mom might feel overwhelmed as child keeps advancing, and child might benefit a lot from more of a challenge.

 

I would love to help her, but I don't want to be rude or pushy. I'm a bit of a know-it-all, I'll admit, but part of that is because, in all modesty, I'm a very bright person who reads quickly and retains most. I am good at diplomacy, but no matter how nicely I put it, if I'm shoving in where I shouldn't be, well, I shouldn't.  

 

What would you do? What could I do that would actually be helpful? I'd love to invite her over, have her go through my vast library of children's fiction and non-fiction, and help inspire her to make a bit of a plan where the next few years could go.  I'm guessing most of you will tell me to butt out, and I get that, but this friend and I will be seeing a lot of each other, and her child's schooling comes up naturally in the course of conversation very often.

 

(With a few other friends I can see running into similar issues in a few years, so even if your advice isn't specific to this case, I'd love to hear it.)

[Kiara.I]

Well, I do think she may need to come to that herself.    When education comes up, you could ask her questions like, "What kind of style of homeschooling do you think you're heading towards?" and if she blinks, offer her a web link to a super-cursory overview of some different types.  Or "do you find your daughter's learning style to be more auditory, visual, or kinetic?"  That kind of thing.

 

With the specific offer of a curriculum sale, I'd be asking what *specific* curriculum she wanted for various things (math, spelling, writing, science, whatever) in order to look out for those pieces of it.  When you're offering to be the delivery person and are responsible for making the choices about what to get, I think it's totally okay to be asking very specific questions.

[Rosie_0801]

This person is not one of your best friends, the child is not suffering educational neglect and your kids are younger than hers. This means you restrict personal comments to a minimum and buy nice picture books if you are invited to their birthday parties. If she asks, you can offer "I've heard of X" or "I've got Y, want a lend?"

[wintermom]

It might be useful to bring this mom together with one or two of your other more experienced homeschooling parents, then share some of your ideas, book titles, etc. with everyone in a casual way. By hearing how other homeschool families have used these resources and materials, or other ones, I think it would be more helpful than you simply stating that these are great books. Implementing teaching methods and materials is very different in a homeschool envirnment than in a classroom, whether the educator has background in educational researcher or not.

[Xahm]

Well, I do think she may need to come to that herself.    When education comes up, you could ask her questions like, "What kind of style of homeschooling do you think you're heading towards?" and if she blinks, offer her a web link to a super-cursory overview of some different types.  Or "do you find your daughter's learning style to be more auditory, visual, or kinetic?"  That kind of thing.

 

With the specific offer of a curriculum sale, I'd be asking what *specific* curriculum she wanted for various things (math, spelling, writing, science, whatever) in order to look out for those pieces of it.  When you're offering to be the delivery person and are responsible for making the choices about what to get, I think it's totally okay to be asking very specific questions.

 

Thanks! Yes, asking questions to draw out her thinking is what I was thinking would probably be best. I just don't want to sound too much like I'm asking leading questions. I'm working myself towards being ready to ask from a position of really wanting to learn from her and not just take the lead and try to teach her her business, but also be ready to share what I have learned, if that makes any sense.

[Xahm]

This person is not one of your best friends, the child is not suffering educational neglect and your kids are younger than hers. This means you restrict personal comments to a minimum and buy nice picture books if you are invited to their birthday parties. If she asks, you can offer "I've heard of X" or "I've got Y, want a lend?"

 

Thanks for your response. While I'm not good at sticking to simple chit-chat with anyone and I know that the topic will come up (by her leading) too much to make this possible anyway, your stridency is a really good reminder to me how careful I need to be to not be the jerk who thinks I know better and forces ideas on others. 

[Xahm]

It might be useful to bring this mom together with one or two of your other more experienced homeschooling parents, then share some of your ideas, book titles, etc. with everyone in a casual way. By hearing how other homeschool families have used these resources and materials, or other ones, I think it would be more helpful than you simply stating that these are great books. Implementing teaching methods and materials is very different in a homeschool envirnment than in a classroom, whether the educator has background in educational researcher or not.

 

Yeah, I think a mini-conference at our church could be a possibility, and that would keep me from acting like an authority in a situation where I really am not. Plus that would help others and myself!

[8filltheheart]

An arbitrary answer about what you could look for at a used curriculum sale means absolutely nothing about this parent's knowledge of homeschooling or her plans.  If someone asked me that question, I would probably respond with a blank look on my face.  I don't think in terms of grade levels or in terms of specific curriculum.  FWIW, homeschooling choices/philosophy is not a conversation I enter into lightly.  Many people view their homeschool as "do not tread here" subject matter.

 

I don't know how to say this gently, but the original question combined with having other friends who "I can see running into similar issues in a few years" suggests that perhaps you should spend time recognizing your friends' strengths and relishing their friendships for what they can offer you.  

[cbollin]

Thanks for your response. While I'm not good at sticking to simple chit-chat with anyone and I know that the topic will come up (by her leading) too much to make this possible anyway, your stridency is a really good reminder to me how careful I need to be to not be the jerk who thinks I know better and forces ideas on others. 

 

Yes, if you ask leading questions, or pretend that you are trying to learn from her, I think you  will be perceived by this not super well friend as a jerk who is a know it all and forcing your way on her.   (using your words.)   I get it that you're excited about your information and all of that.  But my guess is that the other person will be saying "pass the bean dip please" to you a lot if they are able to be gracious in the situation.

 

in my opinion.. in a group setting (such as a conference or homeschool support group) where you are not the authority and if there is time for input from the participants, it would be socially ok then for you to say "here are things I am learning about and I want to share the information".   Even when I was a veteran homeschooler but new to a city and no one knew me, I waited my turn to talk and share about some of the stuff I knew.  and then when others were not interested, I knew to end the conversation.   Their choices are their choices. I need to respect that and as 8fills said...  see people for people.

[Xahm]

Again, thank you for reinforcing to me how carefully I need to tread.  I clearly didn't word the initial post well. She is close to me, she's a new-ish friend, but one I expect to see 1-2 times a week for the foreseeable future. She's doing a GREAT job with her kid, and I know she will always do her best. She's in a tough spot for other reasons, though, and I want to be a help. I know y'all don't know me from Eve, but please assume that I'm asking you before acting so that I will not do anything jerky.

 

The reason I see this possibly coming up with others in the future is that I have a reputation for knowing a lot and people do come to me asking questions a lot. I've talked peer-to-peer with some who have kids my kids' ages, but if I do end up putting my kids in school and they homeschool, then once again I will be in the position of them having home-schooled and me not.  Does this mean that we can no longer talk the same way?  I don't know.

 

I will be careful to consider my friends' strengths even more than I already do. I appreciate many, many things about this woman, and the others I'm thinking of. I will not list those things here because I respect their privacy, but it may be a good thing for me to physically list them out before I see her again so that I will have them at the top of my mind.

[Slache]

This is a mind boggling post because homeschooling has grown so much in the last few decades. People used to grow roses and lilies and now we're importing giant man eating flowers from Jumanji and cross pollinating them ourselves. I'd ask if she's heard of the upcoming homeschool conference this summer and offer to watch the kids if it's appropriate. Books that I'm grateful to have read are The Ultimate Guide To Homeschooling, Cathy Duffy's Top Pics, and For the Children's Sake.

[Xahm]

This is a mind boggling post because homeschooling has grown so much in the last few decades. People used to grow roses and lilies and now we're importing giant man eating flowers from Jumanji and cross pollinating them ourselves. I'd ask if she's heard of the upcoming homeschool conference this summer and offer to watch the kids if it's appropriate. Books that I'm grateful to have read are The Ultimate Guide To Homeschooling, Cathy Duffy's Top Pics, and For the Children's Sake.

 

Offering to babysit is a really obvious way to help and one that I really should do! Thank you. I really don't understand the first part of your post though. Mind explaining?

[Arcadia]

Unless you are the regular babysitter or tutor, I won't overstep the friendship. You could welcome her to borrow your books and academic stuff instead.

Even if kids all go to public school or all homeschool, kids including siblings are still individuals.

[Slache]

Offering to babysit is a really obvious way to help and one that I really should do! Thank you. I really don't understand the first part of your post though. Mind explaining?

 

I was saying that homeschooling is really big and ever changing so there isn't really a "you should do this" answer. I meant babysit for her if she wants to go to the homeschool conference I was referencing.  ;)

[ocelotmom]

 I offered to pick up some books at a (dirt cheap but very good) used book sale and asked what would be helpful. She named a few topics of interest to her child and then also added "workbooks." I asked what kind, and her answer was "X-grade," which made me think she hasn't really planned things out all that much. This isn't too concerning because her child is ahead and advancing, but mom might feel overwhelmed as child keeps advancing, and child might benefit a lot from more of a challenge.

 

I'd probably say something similar. It's not necessarily indicative of lack of a plan. 

 

I have specific things I want. I know that you're very unlikely to find them at an used book sale unless it was homeschool-specific. And if it was homeschool-specific, they'd be unlikely to be dirt cheap, and I wouldn't ask that of you. So I'd give some general areas of interest and a generic "workbooks" because the kids like to play around with workbooks sometimes and they fill a niche.

 

I'd love to go to the sale myself and look at stuff, but I'd have a hard time telling a random friend what to pick out for me ahead of time with no clue as to what will actually be there.

[Xahm]

Thanks for explaining. There are several conferences here, so it's very possible.

This thread has really been a lesson in humility for me! I knew this was a very touchy subject, but I had no idea how touchy!  While it seems that some home-schoolers would rather no one discuss homeschooling with them unless they have asked that person a very specific question, I'm not going to take it that far. I will tread gently and respectfully, being physically helpful (babysitting etc) when I can and asking questions when I can ask them in an open and honest way. (For example, I will ask "I was reading that such and such works well for some kids. Do you think that helps with yours, or what do you do in that situation?" but I will not ask anything that I already (think) I know the answer to.) I'll also give books that I think the child would find interesting as I know the mother and child would both enjoy this.

I would guess from the strength of responses here that there are lots of unhelpful meddlers in this world. I promise I will do my best not to be one of them.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Thanks for your response. While I'm not good at sticking to simple chit-chat with anyone and I know that the topic will come up (by her leading) too much to make this possible anyway, your stridency is a really good reminder to me how careful I need to be to not be the jerk who thinks I know better and forces ideas on others. 

 

Good gracious! Rosie described as strident? No, no, no. I'm sorry, but that is laughable.

 

I'm glad you are listening to my fellow homeschoolers in this thread. Good advice coming your way from pretty much 100% of the posters. :)

[8filltheheart]

.....

asking questions when I can ask them in an open and honest way. (For example, I will ask "I was reading that such and such works well for some kids. Do you think that helps with yours, or what do you do in that situation?" but I will not ask anything that I already (think) I know the answer to.)

It has been a long time since I was a new mom with toddlers, but I personally would find that type of conversation intrusive. Maybe that is the way moms of toddlers talk with each other and I have just forgotten. But it is not the way that I interact with my friends. It sounds more like a question that might be discussed at a moms' meeting where there are formal topics and question/answers. Homeschooling, parenting, etc are just not normal subjects I discuss with friends. Personal topics are raised by the person who wants to talk about them by their seeking opinions, not by the person who thinks they should offer them.

 

I have been homeschooling for over 20 yrs and over all those yrs, I know very little about what my friends have done/do in their homeschools.

[ocelotmom]

You'll also find that homeschoolers tend to distrust people who say they know how children learn, especially if that person is trying to influence how they teach their child, and that standard pedagogy about how children learn may well be part of what led them to homeschool in the first place.

 

 

However, I would not think anything negative if a friend opened up their library to me, as long as they weren't pushy about it. I might not borrow anything, as I know I'm a horrible book borrower, but it's always good to have a chance to look at things in person. I also don't think there is anything problematic about offering suggestions if she volunteers that she (or her daughter) is struggling with something specific. It's offering unsolicited advice because you don't think she's doing everything you think she could be doing that's the problem.

[abacus2]

Honestly, the best way to be a friend to a homeschooling mom is just to be a friend. Help with things like meals and childcare; provide a shoulder, a listening ear, and encouragement. There is no one right way to homeschool. Some families have detailed and purposeful plans, which could vary greatly from family to family or even kid to kid. Others go with the general goal that their kids learn something and just see where the journey takes them. Many methods have produced well educated children. Your friend may never get to or feel the need to plan at the level you expect to and that's ok. You see that her children are excelling; you know what she is doing is good for them.

[blondeviolin]

TBH, if you had asked me what to pick up at a used book sale, I would have given you interests or ideas of content we are studying. It would in no way be indicative of the level of rigor or quality of my kids' education.

[Arcadia]

I won't ask a friend to pick up above grade level materials for me at a used book sale or anywhere else. If it is a very good/close friend, I would be comfortable giving a wish list.

 

My kids don't mind workbooks for road trips so your friend's request for workbooks when you ask what she might want doesn't seem odd or unplanned.

[Aiden]

I also only have a young child, so I am usually very aware of my relative lack of experience when it comes to raising and educating older children. I'm very careful to keep my opinions to myself, except when the child in question is my own, and then I thank others to keep their opinions to themselves unless I ask. (I love to hear about what they did with their kids, the struggles and successes they had, etc, because I know hearing about their experiences will help me make better decisions, but don't tell me what to do with mine unless I ask you, and don't tell me a story about yours that obviously is a thinly disguised statement of what I should do with mine.)

 

When I have seen a homeschooling mom struggling due to the circumstances of her life (she was struggling with an illness, not with a full time job, but the principle would be the same), my response was to honestly ask her: How are you doing with homeschooling right now? Is there anything I can do to help? She seemed so relieved just for someone to have noticed that she was in a rough patch. I couldn't help her much with the actual homeschooling, but I think just having someone recognize and affirm that it was hard was helpful to her.

 

In your situation, if you see your friend struggling, I'd go to her openly and say "Wow, it must be hard to homeschool while working full time, and especially when you have such an advanced child who moves so fast. I think I'd have a hard time keeping up. How are things going for you?" Then let the conversation develop naturally from there, offering to help or answering questions as they become relevant, but accepting it if she says "Oh things are fine, thanks" and absolutely NOT pushing in with "Well, I think you should do this." The best help you can offer may be to put her in touch with a more experienced homeschooling mom, and if this friend indicates that she's having trouble at all, then I'd be sure to offer that--or even better, to put her in touch with a group of homeschooling moms.

[SarahW]

I agree with Aiden. You say this mom works and has little funds, so I think you should take some salt along with the responses from those who are highly-educated, financially comfortable SAHM's.

 

Just ask what your friend needs. Maybe take a pdf file to Staples for printing and binding. Maybe finding good readers. Maybe running books back to the library. Who knows.

 

Maybe her kids like workbooks. They exist, even among advanced kids. But maybe she's aching to do more hands-on things but doesn't have the time. If you are interested in science/poetry/gardening/music/birding/archery/whatever you can offer to do a "workshop" with her kids. I love it when other adults share their interests with my kid.

 

But if she does think that a "complete curriculum" book from Wal-Mart is all her kids need, then you probably won't get anywhere trying to just change her mind. She needs to decide her approach in her own way. Lead a horse to water and all that, BUT...  If this is your main concern, I think the suggestion to help her go to a convention or meet up with a homeschool group is good.

 

And if you go cheap book sales, sure, just pick up whatever you think she and her kids would like and could use. Tell her the sale had one price for a whole box if she's touchy about financials. When I was being homeschooled during tough money times, a box of good books showing up was like Christmas morning. Even cast-off public school textbooks sometimes interested me....at least when they matched up with my favorite subjects, lol. Even if she isn't particularly interested in "using" the books you buy, having good books around can only be positive for the kids. And that's doubly true for bright kids who are bored. 

[freesia]

I agree with the others . When I had preschoolers I had a ton of ideals for how our school would go. I had taught for 10 years in schools and was looking forward to schooling the way I believed was best free from the constraints I had always faced.

 

Life has a way of humbling us. I can't think of one year I have had to compromise some ideal. Sometimes this was bc if toddlers, sometimes energy level and sometimes bc some of my children do not enjoy learning in my idealized way. IFor example, I was always against textbook science for elementary school. I was not pro Christian textbook science. Guess what? My second child begged me to use a textbook2 years ago and, because of financial constraints (and that I considered it an experiment that would fail) we used an ABeka text someone had given me. She thrived with this and begged to do it again. I switched my third child, who is also thriving and, for the first time ever, sowing enthusiasm for school.

 

Honestly, the number one way someone could have helped ehen I was overwhelmed would have been to offer me time by myself. The second way would have been to takes younger kids to the park or a library story time.

 

The other thing I have seen that would have surprised me at your stage is that homeschooled kids I know are all doing great although our group represents a huge variety of styles.

 

Your desire to help us a good thing. Maybe channel that into something practical now.

[freesia]

Sorry for the typos above-I can no longer post from my laptop!

[Desert Strawberry]

When I first start out homeschooling when my oldest was little, I used grade leveled workbooks of varying quality, and most of our real learning came from living books. That was where we were on our journey. At that time, and for a while afterwards, certain family members were constantly giving me low quality workbooks and other materials that we quickly grew out of. I still have some in my shelf because there are better things to do.

We no longer use any workbooks at all. We use very little commercial curricula, and no traditional textbooks. If someone asked what we needed, I would give an excessively vague answer. Something along the lines of "children's books." Because I don't even care what they have in their shelf. I have all their academic needs covered. Anything else is bonus.

[prairiewindmomma]

I would just pick up a big box of books at the homeschool sale for her and her child and give it as a gift.  If fun free events pop up in the community, I'd text and let her know. I'd offer to take her child with you to the library or on outings. I would keep my mouth shut. 

 

As an aside, I'd print off this post and stick it in a journal. Reread it in ten years. I suspect that your perspective will have changed.  Many years ago, when I had three kids aged three and under I had my doctoral degree and quite the library and I'd read dozens and dozens of books on homeschooling and methodology and so on. We were doing Miquon and Sonlight PK in addition to our nature walks/art study/music time/foreign languages/community outings/organic gardening and I thought I had that homeschooling thing down. I laugh now at myself then.

 

Everyone here has been patient and gracious. ;)

[SunshineMom]

I would pick up the workbooks at the grade level she specified because she has stated that that is the help she needs.  As your friendship grows, if she is interested, share your resources.  It is very possible that she may not be able to homeschool in the future so she is doing what is best for her child for now.

[FO4UR]

I will be blunt, yet kindly.  Butt out.

 

You said that this mom is working and homeschooling and her child is advanced.  Watch and learn.

 

 

 

 

[ocelotmom]

I agree with Aiden. You say this mom works and has little funds, so I think you should take some salt along with the responses from those who are highly-educated, financially comfortable SAHM's.

 

And don't assume all the responses here are from highly-educated, financially comfortable SAHMs.

[Stellalarella]

Precious few of us wake up in the morning and think, what will I research about teaching methods today?  and stay up late at night developing 10 point plans to become star home school educators.  OK, well, there are quite a few of us here who can't get enough of pedagogy, but anyway...

 

But by golly, when kiddo starts struggling with long division and story problems, reading fluency and writing paragraphs, the need to teach more effectively propels us to find answers.  

 

Don't take away someone's need.  It's her best motivator for growing in teaching and learning.  

[Alte Veste Academy]

Because you asked...

 

I hear you saying you don't want to come across in a negative way, and I think you are right to be concerned because, truthfully, I have never met a know-it-all (your word!) who was good at diplomacy (but many who thought they were). If you have to put this much though into not coming across as a know-it-all, I think it would be best to drop the idea of proactive communication on this issue altogether because the answer to your question should be a no-brainer. How can non-homeschoolers support homeschoolers? In the same way friends support friends, openly and honestly, with no hidden agenda. Friends communicate without hidden agendas. If you have to couch your language or formulate an approach, you are not in a position to offer advice.

 

Honestly, this is no more touchy an issue than any other in which someone with little to no experience with x, y, or z thinks they know better than someone in the trenches with x, y, or z who also has intimate knowledge of a, b, and c which no one else is privy to. Nothing supplants or surpasses firsthand experience. Breastfeeding advice from someone who has never breastfed? Good grief. Deployment advice from someone who has never been away from their spouse for a night? I'll pass. Homeschooling advice from someone whose oldest child is a toddler? No thanks. On the other hand, I would be happy to sit and chat with friends who want to share with me—from their own personal vantage point on their own personal path—about their grand plans for the roads I have already been down. If these chats inspire deeper conversation, motivation, or a change in my own heart, well then wonderful. Friends do help shape our lives, after all. But the conversations should have no hidden agenda.

 

Books are great. I read almost constantly. I read all about homeschool philosophy while my kids were young. Knowledge is power! But experience is wisdom. Personally, I was a perfect mom before I had kids and a perfect homeschooler before I started teaching my kids. ;) Now I am wiser, mostly because I recognize that I am ignorant in ways I never could have guessed and in even more ways than I will ever know.

 

As a relevant aside, the best educated homeschooler I have ever known was taught mainly through workbooks by a SAHD with a high school diploma. They knocked out school fast, and although they didn't know the name for it, she unschooled for the better part of each day. The older she got, the more meaningful and productive her unschooling (aka free time) became. Frankly, when I met the girl (at age 7), I was less than impressed. I actually felt sorry for her. But thankfully I kept my mouth shut, and over the years I watched her bloom. She is finishing medical school now...

[Coco_Clark]

I'm not sure why if this is true, "that I have a reputation for knowing a lot and people do come to me asking questions a lot." You feel you need to push yourself forward and ask "leading questions" at all. The mom is doing great and cares deeply about her kiddo, according to your own words. You are well know to know a lot about homeschooling, according to your own words. It seems, therefor, that she's well aware that she can get help in that direction from you if she wanted it.

 

If you are close, and she has a question, she will ask it.

 

Personally, I'm in the "leave her alone" camp. I find it exhausting and rude when people search out "gaps" in my children's education and incessantly reccomend this or that. I do not always want to defend myself and my homeschooling methods to every acquaintance with preschoolers that thinks they are experts in teaching children. That is putting it pretty harshly, I'm sorry. But I'm not sure you are as diplomatic as you think.

 

Edited to add: I DO plan out my children's schooling. Probably too much. They have a decently rigorous curriculum. If I was asked, spur of the moment, if I'd like anything from the used store my answer would have been the same: mentioning a few topics of interest and "workbooks" . Because I design my own curriculum and my kids like to do workbooks in the car during long drives.

[Xahm]

I will be blunt, yet kindly.  Butt out.

 

You said that this mom is working and homeschooling and her child is advanced.  Watch and learn.

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean this in a kindly way, so I'll ask further, what would it look like to "butt out"? I see this woman frequently, and, as homeschooling her daughter is important to her, she brings it up a lot. If I fail to make any comments further than "mmhhmm" and "sounds great" she will, justifiably, feel I'm being cold and distant, not truly supportive.  Do all of you really not talk about homeschooling the way some of you say you don't?!  Because my friends who homeschool, with the exception of one family, talk about it all the time! 

[Carol in Cal.]

I would just be a friend.

Have them over.

Offer to babysit from time to time.

 

Read to the daughter.  Invite her over to bake cookies with you and teach her how to use measuring cups.

Drop off some homemade playdough now and then.  

 

Help provide the childhood magic that is hard for working moms to provide.  Butt out about curricula or methods.  You don't know enough about this or know the child well enough to have any idea what to say there.  Plus you already know that she is doing well, so why rock the boat at this point?  Stick to what you're good at.  And be a friend.

[Xahm]

I would just be a friend.

Have them over.

Offer to babysit from time to time.

 

Read to the daughter.  Invite her over to bake cookies with you and teach her how to use measuring cups.

Drop off some homemade playdough now and then.  

 

Help provide the childhood magic that is hard for working moms to provide.  Butt out about curricula or methods.  You don't know enough about this or know the child well enough to have any idea what to say there.  Plus you already know that she is doing well, so why rock the boat at this point?  Stick to what you're good at.  And be a friend.

 

Thanks. This is really helpful and probably summarizes the good ideas that are in this thread.  I happen to be awesome at teaching and planning in a one-on-one setting (though some might think that's impossible for a mother of toddlers), but I will continue to hide that as much as possible so that I don't overstep. I'll have my opportunity later with my own kids. 

[Alte Veste Academy]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean this in a kindly way, so I'll ask further, what would it look like to "butt out"? I see this woman frequently, and, as homeschooling her daughter is important to her, she brings it up a lot. If I fail to make any comments further than "mmhhmm" and "sounds great" she will, justifiably, feel I'm being cold and distant, not truly supportive. Do all of you really not talk about homeschooling the way some of you say you don't?! Because my friends who homeschool, with the exception of one family, talk about it all the time!

The vast majority of my friends do not homeschool, but I talk about it all the time because it is how I spend most of my time. It is a huge part of my life, and we talk about all aspects of our lives. They say much more than "mmhhmm" and "sounds great" in response, but I imagine that's because there is a middle ground between grunting, nodding, and smiling and secretly plotting out ways to give me pointers because I am not doing things to their standards. Your problem, and why you think you are limited to meaningless commentary, is that you are secretly harboring judgment. So you can either let it go, come clean, or, yeah, nod and smile.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Thanks. This is really helpful and probably summarizes the good ideas that are in this thread. I happen to be awesome at teaching and planning in a one-on-one setting (though some might think that's impossible for a mother of toddlers), but I will continue to hide that as much as possible so that I don't overstep. I'll have my opportunity later with my own kids.

You don't have to hide your strengths. But showing your strengths and giving unsolicited advice that comes from a place of judgment are two different things. You say she talks about homeschooling all the time, so as someone upthread said, if she wanted help and advice, she could ask for it.

 

There are many wonderful teachers who have no kids. Of course that isn't impossible. But it is not what you were asking. You were asking how you can impart your knowledge to someone who has apparently not asked for it.

[Stellalarella]

  I happen to be awesome at teaching and planning in a one-on-one setting (though some might think that's impossible for a mother of toddlers), but I will continue to hide that as much as possible so that I don't overstep. 

 

One question you might ask yourself is how how well your teaching abilities would hold up while also shouldering much bigger burdens,  responsibilities and stress.

 

I thought of myself as a good teacher, but last year when my sick and mentally challenged very elderly in-laws moved into our home and I was facing trying to homeschool 6 kids from K-9th grade, do it with very little resources, take care of two sick old people, help my husband run a free lance business, and cook all from scratch diabetic salt free healthy meals for 10 people, maybe my teaching ability was a little lackluster.  (understatement).

 

My wonderful non-homeschooling friends (even the fantastic public school teachers among them) asked how I was doing, offered support, helped with the kids when we needed it, listened to me cry, gave me high fives when things went well, and never once offered to do curriculum searches for me.  No one suggested I read a book about how to manage it all and be a fantastic teacher.  No one judged me (in words, deeds or facial expressions!) for how crappy that six months of school was for my kids.  No one sat with glazed eyes, pretending to smile and nod while I shared about homeschooling the kids.  

 

And yet, even without telling me how and what to do, their support enabled me to get to a better place.  And our school year is currently going great.  

[HS Mom in NC]

I didn't see the friend asking for help or support in the posts.  (Admittedly I have a head cold and a Nyquil hangover so I might've missed it.)  It sounds to me like the friend has figured out what works for her and her child in spite of the challenges of limited funds and working full time.  It seems to me the child is thriving.  Workbooks aren't my choice for my situation, but she can decide whatever she wants for her own child for whatever reason she chooses whether the OP considers it a good reason or not. OP, you have no idea if mom will feel overwhelmed as the child keeps advancing and you have no idea if the child will benefit in the future from more of a challenge (whatever those vague, abstract words mean to you.) Mom seems to have things under control and there's no need to fret about it staying that way.  She's got this.

 

I'm not a workbooky type person by educational philosophy (which I have done a tremendous amount of research on starting when my oldest kids were toddlers.) But my educational philosophy has been honed and readjusted some over the years.  I've got 3 kids with very different personalities and I've homeschooled through a crisis or two. That meant incorporating workbooks here and there for different reasons at different times. 

 

I'm the first person who will tell people to research their options (educational philosophy and curriculum) before they go spending precious time and money on materials, but some people just won't. I have a new homeschooler packet I can hand them giving them an overview.  After that I've done all I can do. Some read it and ask follow up questions.  I'm sure some toss it in the trash.  That's perfectly fine. I don't need to think about what's going on with them after I've given it. These are people who contact me about homeschooling or give someone I know thier phone number or email so we can talk about homeschooling.

OP, I think you have boundary issues.  A friend you describe as "close to me but I don't know her super well yet" isn't close to you.  She's an acquaintance. Even a close friend doesn't need unsolicited homeschooling advice from anyone-especially someone with no actual experience homeschooling or even parenting a child preschool age or older. You don't even plan on homeschooling all the way through which makes you even less likely a candidate to offer advice on many homeschooling topics after you've homeschooled for a while. If you see a child being criminally educationally neglected, then by all means talk to the mother or report her.  Until that happens (it won't happen with the mom in your OP)   stop thinking about her homeschooling and focus on preparing yourself for your homeschooling.

 

[kirstenhill]

I haven't read all the responses but here is my thought...

 

I am a "researcher" and sometimes I think it is hard for us "researchers" to get the "non-researchers."  I know a lot of homeschooling friends that just pick something, go with it, and use it/adapt on the fly to meet their kids needs.   They reach out and ask a friend or do a bit of research only if it isn't working.  And it seems to work well for them and their kids turn out fine.  I love to know all my options and understand them -- I have learned a lot about different curricula reading the forums here, even stuff I will probably never use.  Good friends who know that about me will sometimes ask my opinion of x or y and I let them know what I have learned.   I've learned though that a lot of my friends like stuff I would never like, and I don't offer opinions unless asked.  You could maybe ask your friend if she wants help doing research, but she might say no!  Asking her if there is anything you can do to help might bring her the help she really needs more than assuming more research is what is going to help.

 

I have swapped "wish lists" with friends as we have opportunities to attend different book sales, or occasionally seen a book I know a friend would appreciate and gifted it to them.  It works well when there are a lot of book sales and everyone certainly doesn't have time to attend them all.  Other times a good friend has asked me, "hey, can I look for anything for you at the book sale?"  And I haven't had a very coherent response because I maybe haven't quite finished my next year's plan or I know I want to spend my money on things that won't be at a book sale (newly published stuff or stuff that just isn't very popular) or because that day I am fed up with all the piles of books in my house and wasn't in the mood to organize another stack of books.  So her responses about the book sale may not be indicative of my long term plans or how much I have planned/researched for the next year. 

[Xahm]

In this thread I've been told to "but out" and "keep personal comments to a minimum." I'm curious to konow whether that only applies if the homeschooler in question never talks about homeschool (which makes sense but doesn't fit the situation) or if that advice still applies but in a way I don't understand.

 

Here's my level of judgement: Homeschooling can be hard. I have certain advantages. She has other advantages, very real ones, but she also has some disadvantages. She's close to me and a friend. I think I can help, but I worry that, because she knows she has some disadvantages, she will feel judged.  This thread, while it has made me feel judged and quite upset at times, has been worth it because it has shown me areas  where I should tread extra lightly as many homeschoolers, at least on this board, were quite touchy about them. I was worried that providing material support would be the most likely to offend given the economic situation, but if this thread is any indication, that's the safest way to go (babysitting, inviting along to outings, reading books as presents). 

The vast majority of my friends do not homeschool, but I talk about it all the time because it is how I spend most of my time. It is a huge part of my life, and we talk about all aspects of our lives. They say much more than "mmhhmm" and "sounds great" in response, but I imagine that's because there is a middle ground between grunting, nodding, and smiling and secretly plotting out ways to give me pointers because I am not doing things to their standards. Your problem, and why you think you are limited to meaningless commentary, is that you are secretly harboring judgment. So you can either let it go, come clean, or, yeah, nod and smile.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

If someone has not specifically asked for some specific sort of help, they don't want or need help.  Don't offer help.

[kirstenhill]

In this thread I've been told to "but out" and "keep personal comments to a minimum." I'm curious to konow whether that only applies if the homeschooler in question never talks about homeschool (which makes sense but doesn't fit the situation) or if that advice still applies but in a way I don't understand.

 

Here's my level of judgement: Homeschooling can be hard. I have certain advantages. She has other advantages, very real ones, but she also has some disadvantages. She's close to me and a friend. I think I can help, but I worry that, because she knows she has some disadvantages, she will feel judged.  This thread, while it has made me feel judged and quite upset at times, has been worth it because it has shown me areas  where I should tread extra lightly as many homeschoolers, at least on this board, were quite touchy about them. I was worried that providing material support would be the most likely to offend given the economic situation, but if this thread is any indication, that's the safest way to go (babysitting, inviting along to outings, reading books as presents). 

 

My homeschooling friends and I talk about homeschooling a lot.  But it is a lot different to commiserate about how much kids throwing a tantrum about writing stinks or about whether we are liking or not liking the math curriculum we picked.    I don't tell people, "I think this is what would help you"  unless it was a situation where I had personal experience in the area someone was asking about (Like, Friend:  "My kid just can't learn multiplication"  Me: "We tried xtra math, have you tried that?") or they asked, "Have you heard of Beast Academy? What do you think?" 

 

I think it is harder for you not being in the same boat yet of having school age kids.   You have only research to back you up, not personal experiences.  It will be different when you are there too.

[ocelotmom]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean this in a kindly way, so I'll ask further, what would it look like to "butt out"? I see this woman frequently, and, as homeschooling her daughter is important to her, she brings it up a lot. If I fail to make any comments further than "mmhhmm" and "sounds great" she will, justifiably, feel I'm being cold and distant, not truly supportive.  Do all of you really not talk about homeschooling the way some of you say you don't?!  Because my friends who homeschool, with the exception of one family, talk about it all the time! 

 

No, we talk about it. I found the post from someone saying they keep it all hush-hush, even between other homeschooling friends, to be a little strange. Definitely not my personal experience.

 

But there's a difference between talking as peers about mutual struggles, talking to someone with more experience because you're interested and value their input, and talking to them because you think she needs to fix what she's doing.

 

Asking questions because you're genuinely interested in her and her daughter and you're a curious education geek is fine, as long as you follow her cues and lay off if she seems like she doesn't want to talk about it. I asked all sorts of questions when I first joined a homeschooling group when my oldest was 3, even though we weren't homeschooling yet.

 

Offering advice or help if she seems to be looking for it is fine.

 

Genuinely saying "I admire how you juggle working and homeschooling, and you're clearly doing a great job. I know time and money are scarce - is there any way I can help?" is fine and generous, as long as you aren't pushy.

 

Trying to fix her because you don't think she's doing a good enough job is not fine. Asking leading questions designed to try to get her to think disguised as simple curiosity is likely to come across as insincere.  

 

(Which isn't to say intervention doesn't have a place, but, from what you describe, it doesn't sound like your friend is really in need of it.)

[Xahm]

Thanks. Totally understand and am in 100% agreement.

 

No, we talk about it. I found the post from someone saying they keep it all hush-hush, even between other homeschooling friends, to be a little strange. Definitely not my personal experience.

 

But there's a difference between talking as peers about mutual struggles, talking to someone with more experience because you're interested and value their input, and talking to them because you think she needs to fix what she's doing.

 

Asking questions because you're genuinely interested in her and her daughter and you're a curious education geek is fine, as long as you follow her cues and lay off if she seems like she doesn't want to talk about it. I asked all sorts of questions when I first joined a homeschooling group when my oldest was 3, even though we weren't homeschooling yet.

 

Offering advice or help if she seems to be looking for it is fine.

 

Genuinely saying "I admire how you juggle working and homeschooling, and you're clearly doing a great job. I know time and money are scarce - is there any way I can help?" is fine and generous, as long as you aren't pushy.

 

Trying to fix her because you don't think she's doing a good enough job is not fine. Asking leading questions designed to try to get her to think disguised as simple curiosity is likely to come across as insincere.  

 

(Which isn't to say intervention doesn't have a place, but, from what you describe, it doesn't sound like your friend is really in need of it.)

 

[Stellalarella]

In this thread I've been told to "but out" and "keep personal comments to a minimum." 

 

One helpful tip for this forum is that if  you want to share your current problem and have folks agree with you is to label it a JAWM thread.  Just Agree With Me.

 

In this case, actual advice was sought out, thus advice was given.  

 

I'm not seeing places where folks were labeling you a bad person or a bad friend.  You did receive blunt advice and good advice, at that.  

 

The more lengthy replies were elucidating to me, but in essence, Butt Out of Educational Advice and Offer Friendship Support pretty much covers it.  

 

If you are feeling judged by the advice you asked for, then imagine how it must feel to receive unsolicited educational advice for  one's child. 

[maize]

I find it odd that you are concerned about a child who you acknowledge is doing well. It seems you are seeing your friend 's homeschooling endeavors as less than optimal, and you want to help her optimize the experience...

 

I think you have excellent intentions, but you may need to mentally step away from another parent's territory. If you were seeing signs of educational neglect, you might have reason to be concerned. From what you describe, though, it would be better to simply acknowledge OK efforts as just that. Sounds like mom has her plate full and is doing just fine educating her child in spite of that. You can worry about an ideal education for your own children.

 

If you are asked for ideas and opinions, you can of course share. Otherwise, just continue to be an encouraging and supportive friend; can't go wrong with that.

[HS Mom in NC]

 

(With a few other friends I can see running into similar issues in a few years, so even if your advice isn't specific to this case, I'd love to hear it.)

 

 

How many other people in your life need your "help" and your "advantages"? What exactly is going to trigger their need for your "help" in a few years? How can you see it? What exactly do you "see"?