s/o when is it “not really homeschooling� any more

[dauphin]

So in the other thread about outsourcing/what has changed in homeschooling, I saw commentary about how it’s not really homeschooling if someone else is doing the teaching of your child. Of course, there was some variance - for one person it might still be homeschooling if you outsource a subject or two (e.g., foreign language or art) that you don’t have the skill set to teach, but certainly not if you don’t actually “teach†any of the subjects at home. So I started thinking about how I visualize homeschooling occurring in many cases (because my experience is limited to 2 years). 

 

Some people register their child for an online class where the online teacher does the instruction and evaluation and provides a grade. Is that homeschooling?

 

Some people register for a self-paced course like Veritas’s Omnibus, where all the instruction occurs between the student and the course materials.

 

Some people use a pre-packaged video instruction program, like Chalkdust or Videotext math, or one with online support as needed, such as Tabletclass.

 

Some people use highly scripted teacher guides (e.g., FLL or WWE) and pretty much follow them as written.

 

But then I started thinking, if you are using most of the curricula that I could think of, the parent isn’t really doing any teaching, that’s what's covered in the material (e.g., Apologia). Maybe this is partly because I’m thinking of this in terms of an independent reader. And a kid that picks things up quickly.

 

But then what about when you’ve successfully taught your DC to independently choose, complete, and seek evaluation for his own work (e.g., take courses at the CC or online), like you’re recommended to do by SWB by high school level? Are you no longer homeschooling then?

 

Does that make any sense? Where is the line? What constitutes “homeschooling†in that regard. I understand that there may be different perspectives here but I’d love to try and get a handle on where some of you are coming from, what you are thinking of - in a definition sense. Yes, that’s it - objective and measurable. Defined well, you can assess any thing as occurring or not. So what is YOUR definition! That’s it!

 

[....]

From what I'm seeing where I live, most people at the high school level outsource most of it by using an online program, dual enrollment, co-op classes, etc.  We know one family that used the Penn Foster (I think that's what it's called) high school program and several others that took all of their classes online.  What I'm worried about is...what if we DON'T outsource anything for high school?  I don't want to put all of them in a bunch of outside classes for high school.  My oldest will probably do great with some dual enrollment classes, but my son will definitely need ALL of high school to be ready for college classes.  YKWIM?    

[momacacia]

What Evanthe said. I see so many people "jump ship" between 6th and 8th, especially to a good private solution. And I totally get the dual enrollment thing in mid-late high school, and them there's CC Challenge. I think, "Can we really do the bulk of this on our own? Will my student be deficient on some way (when my purpose for hsing is exactly the opposite!)? Will colleges recognize all this at home stuff compared to other kids' resumes."

 

It's unnerving as it gets closer. :-/

[The Girls' Mom]

For me, I guess I word and think of it a bit differently.  My girls homeschool, I don't really homeschool THEM any more.  My younger two do all of their work independently, I just set up the syllabus.  My oldest is taking all but one of her classes at CC this year, and that one class she is working on independently at home.  I am so hands off, in fact, that I'm going back to school myself this spring.  

There is no way that I would think of us, or another family in a similar situation, as not being homeschoolers.  We are still in complete control of the education they are receiving.  I think it is when you give up that control, whether it is through a virtual school or a brick and mortar school, that it begins to move away from homeschooling.  

 

[Matryoshka]

Well, if I have to file a homeschooling education plan with the town, in which I assume responsibility for my dds' education then I'm homeschooling.

 

At the high school level, if I'm also the one putting together the transcript and writing the guidance counselor letter to colleges (so haven't signed up for a full program anywhere), then I'm homeschooling, even if most or all of the classes are outsourced.

 

A public charter, full distance learning program. or full-time cc that would mean that I don't have to file an ed plan, and for high school takes over making the whole transcript and guidance letters is not.

[snowbeltmom]

With the exception of discussing literature, my oldest is doing everything on his own this year.  I am legally responsible for providing him with an education, which I have done by selecting the textbooks/materials/ that he is using this year.  Therefore, I am  homeschooling him.

[Mimm]

Not saying you're doing this, but in the past when this subject has come up, "What counts as homeschooling?" It's basically so people can look down on and exclude someone who isn't following their definition of homeschooling. So my first reaction is, why does it matter? I love that there are so many educational opportunities out there and in general I don't think expecting everyone's education to look the same. It doesn't really seem like labels are really necessary. If a family considers themselves homeschoolers but their kids take most of their classes online and through co-ops, who am I to say that this "doesn't count" as homeschooling. And why would I even care?

[wintermom]

I think that the term "homeschool" covers a wide range of educational options, where the parents are responsible for ensuring the implementation an educational plan that works well for the individual student. 

 

There may be an outside instructor and evaluator or not, but the responsibility is upon the parent to ensure that the education is completed. The parent has complete freedom to choose the method of instruction, and who instructs the classes. Depending on the location of the homeschool family, the type of evaluatiion of the student is flexible as well.

 

In public institutions, the institution has control over what courses students will be offered, how it will be implemented, who will be allowed to take the courses and how they will be evaluated. Even high schools that offer individual-study classes, only certain students are permitted to take these courses, and the responsibility is upon the supervising teacher to ensure the student has completed the course (though it's the student's responsibility to pass the course).

[Farrar]

See, I think the people who have outsourced everything can be said to be homeschooling... to me it's really if you are still the one coordinating and overseeing the child's education. The buck stops with you. If your child is doing distance ed or in a school or at a single community college more or less full time, then you're not overseeing and coordinating - they're in a program that is overseen by someone else (even if you're still the one nagging them to get stuff done or driving them there or whatever... you're still important!, but not homeschooling). But if they're taking two co-op classes, a community college class, a distance ed class, and doing an independent study with literature and you're preparing a transcript to apply to college, then I do think that's still think that's homeschooling.

[Seasider]

I use the term "parent directed education." Because, to me, the method remains a choice rather than a prescription.

 

And even that term is not entirely accurate by the late high school years, as the students themselves are often choosing their own course of study based in personal goals.

[Melissa B]

In my mind, if the student's "official high school transcript" must come from the parent, the student is homeschooling. I have a dd that has completely dual enrolled for over two years. I haven't taught her anything at home. But, the state lists her as a homeschooler and when she is a senior it will be me creating and mailing her official transcript. So I still consider her a homeschooler. I have a dd taking three of her classes through our state run virtual school. She is in the same online classes as students considered by the state to be public school students. But, when the time comes she will receive no diploma from the state and I will be the one mailing her official high school transcript so she is a homeschooler. All four of my children are listed with the county as homeschoolers and each will have one official high school transcript which reads Last Name Homeschool at the top, so they're all homeschoolers, no matter how much I choose to outsource their education.

 

[Seasider]

Not saying you're doing this, but in the past when this subject has come up, "What counts as homeschooling?" It's basically so people can look down on and exclude someone who isn't following their definition of homeschooling. So my first reaction is, why does it matter? I love that there are so many educational opportunities out there and in general I don't think expecting everyone's education to look the same. It doesn't really seem like labels are really necessary. If a family considers themselves homeschoolers but their kids take most of their classes online and through co-ops, who am I to say that this "doesn't count" as homeschooling. And why would I even care?

I agree. There is such a thing as homeschool snobbery and when we start judging others' sourcing choices, we pretty much make moot the declarations we homeschoolers often make about educational freedoms.

 

(But yes, I draw the line at NOTschooling.)

[Ellie]

 

So in the other thread about outsourcing/what has changed in homeschooling, I saw commentary about how it’s not really homeschooling if someone else is doing the teaching of your child. Of course, there was some variance - for one person it might still be homeschooling if you outsource a subject or two (e.g., foreign language or art) that you don’t have the skill set to teach, but certainly not if you don’t actually “teach†any of the subjects at home. So I started thinking about how I visualize homeschooling occurring in many cases (because my experience is limited to 2 years). 

 

Some people register their child for an online class where the online teacher does the instruction and evaluation and provides a grade. Is that homeschooling?

 

Some people register for a self-paced course like Veritas’s Omnibus, where all the instruction occurs between the student and the course materials.

 

Some people use a pre-packaged video instruction program, like Chalkdust or Videotext math, or one with online support as needed, such as Tabletclass.

 

Some people use highly scripted teacher guides (e.g., FLL or WWE) and pretty much follow them as written.

 

But then I started thinking, if you are using most of the curricula that I could think of, the parent isn’t really doing any teaching, that’s what's covered in the material (e.g., Apologia). Maybe this is partly because I’m thinking of this in terms of an independent reader. And a kid that picks things up quickly.

 

But then what about when you’ve successfully taught your DC to independently choose, complete, and seek evaluation for his own work (e.g., take courses at the CC or online), like you’re recommended to do by SWB by high school level? Are you no longer homeschooling then?

 

Does that make any sense? Where is the line? What constitutes “homeschooling†in that regard. I understand that there may be different perspectives here but I’d love to try and get a handle on where some of you are coming from, what you are thinking of - in a definition sense. Yes, that’s it - objective and measurable. Defined well, you can assess any thing as occurring or not. So what is YOUR definition! That’s it!

 

 

Technically, if your dc are not enrolled in a public or private school, then you are homeschooling. :-)

 

So, philosophically:

One subject via video/on-line = still homeschooling

All subjects via video/on-line = not homeschooling

Majority of courses at c.c. = not homeschooling

All content subjects at a co-op = not homeschooling

[lea_lpz]

^^ sounds about right to me actually. I've kind thought the same thing lately. I know some homeschoolers where all the core material is taught at co-op and they kids do the homework at home and all electives are extra curricular drop offs or kids doing k-12 online. So the mom isn't teaching any of the material. I think it's a big change from the pioneer days of homeschool. Note I was not homeschooled, but I knew a couple families and had decided that's what I wanted to do at a very young age. And, so when I started homeschooling and getting to know other homeschool families, I was surprised at how different the culture was. Pretty much like the last post- I wanted a park day but attendance was low- families didn't really have time for what was basically playing, they met up in expensive co-ops. I wanted to find a fun co-op with a few families to so some of the fun stuff with- and everything is CC or writing programs or core subjects- which I actually prefer to teach.....few working class families, mostly families that are pretty well off financially....I found homeschool communities to be a lot less down to earth than I thought they'd be :(

[Ellie]

^^ sounds about right to me actually. I've kind thought the same thing lately. I know some homeschoolers where all the core material is taught at co-op and they kids do the homework at home and all electives are extra curricular drop offs or kids doing k-12 online. So the mom isn't teaching any of the material. I think it's a big change from the pioneer days of homeschool. Note I was not homeschooled, but I knew a couple families and had decided that's what I wanted to do at a very young age. And, so when I started homeschooling and getting to know other homeschool families, I was surprised at how different the culture was. Pretty much like the last post- I wanted a park day but attendance was low- families didn't really have time for what was basically playing, they met up in expensive co-ops. I wanted to find a fun co-op with a few families to so some of the fun stuff with- and everything is CC or writing programs or core subjects- which I actually prefer to teach.....few working class families, mostly families that are pretty well off financially....I found homeschool communities to be a lot less down to earth than I thought they'd be :(

 

:grouphug:

 

I feel your pain, although *I* would not have looked for a co-op but rather for a support group to do fun things with. :-)

[dirty ethel rackham]

In my definition, if the parent is the director of education - choosing curriculum, content providers, outside teachers, then the child is being homeschooled.  It really doesn't matter to me how much is outsourced or how much curriculum is via video or if it is scripted.  You think teachers in B & M schools come up with everything themselves and do not pull in other resources?  In our state, we are de facto private schools. If I am in control of the process, then I am homeschooling my children.  As far as high school is concerned, if I am issuing the diploma, then I am homeschooling.  The exception to this would be if my child, after homeschooling part of high school, decided to attend high school full time, I would still be issuing the diploma, but I would no longer consider myself homeschooling.  I would consider my child to be public schooled because I have handed over the control to the public school.  (In our district, I could, theoretically, try to get credit for the previously homeschooled work, but it is difficult to do.) 

 

By the time my older two were high school aged, especially their last 2 years, they did little with me as the direct teacher.  I had to outsource a lot because I did not feel that I could give them quality instruction at the high level they needed and still homeschool other children, manage life, etc. They were ready to learn from experts in their fields rather than have me studying to keep just a few steps ahead of them (and I say this as a college graduate.)   I was a guidance counselor, academic coach, etc.   Some subjects were self-taught.  For others, we used a variety of outside providers, from online classes to college classes.  They were never matriculated in another school, so, by default, they were homeschooled.  They applied to college as homeschoolers. 

[Wheres Toto]

I usually say that my kids are homeschooled but I am no longer homeschooling them.

[happypamama]

Haven't read all the replies, but I think it's homeschooling when the parent is the one making the final decisions.  Sometimes that means choosing and actively teaching from a lesson plan you pull together yourself, and sometimes it means writing the check to a local college for a class, and sometimes it means anything in between.  You're the one in charge, the one with the big picture view.

 

Am I not homeschooling my 12yo because she uses Saxon math and a pre-designed history curriculum?  Am I not homeschooling my 9yo because he reads SOTW, which I didn't write myself?  Am I not homeschooling my Ker because he likes doing the cut/paste/write/read/count worksheet activities that I pull of the internet?  Really??  In all of those cases, I'm the one calling the shots; the big picture scope is my domain; I'm the one responsible.  Not a school.  If I chose to send my children to a co-op for all of their major subjects, that's a bit of a blurred line, but still, as long as it's MY choice to take the classes, and not a school district's, it's still homeschooling.  (I consider cyber schooling to be a form of homeschooling to a degree too, in that the children aren't in the public school, and because it's a choice on the parent's part to use it, but I know the parent may or may not have any choice about the curricula used.  But I don't say that they're not homeschoolers because they're, at least in my state, considered to be public school students.  That's silly.  There's room for them at our activities too.)

[IdahoHomeschooler]

Meh, if someone tells me they are homeschooling, I tend to just believe them. I'm not really interested in a pissing contest over who are the REAL homeschoolers vs the impostors. Making that distinction just comes across as another battle in the mommy wars.

[Ellie]

Haven't read all the replies, but I think it's homeschooling when the parent is the one making the final decisions.  Sometimes that means choosing and actively teaching from a lesson plan you pull together yourself, and sometimes it means writing the check to a local college for a class, and sometimes it means anything in between.  You're the one in charge, the one with the big picture view.

 

Am I not homeschooling my 12yo because she uses Saxon math and a pre-designed history curriculum?  Am I not homeschooling my 9yo because he reads SOTW, which I didn't write myself?  Am I not homeschooling my Ker because he likes doing the cut/paste/write/read/count worksheet activities that I pull of the internet?  Really??  In all of those cases, I'm the one calling the shots; the big picture scope is my domain; I'm the one responsible.  Not a school.  If I chose to send my children to a co-op for all of their major subjects, that's a bit of a blurred line, but still, as long as it's MY choice to take the classes, and not a school district's, it's still homeschooling.  (I consider cyber schooling to be a form of homeschooling to a degree too, in that the children aren't in the public school, and because it's a choice on the parent's part to use it, but I know the parent may or may not have any choice about the curricula used.  But I don't say that they're not homeschoolers because they're, at least in my state, considered to be public school students.  That's silly.  There's room for them at our activities too.)

 

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that someone who uses Saxon math or SOTW, or using worksheets that you printed from the Internet, isn't homeschooling. It's just silly to assume that's what I meant:-) I said *all* subjects video/on-line, or all content subjects in a co-op or quasi-co-op or community college. And I didn't say it was "wrong." And technically, if your children are not enrolled in a public or private school, if you have to comply with any homeschool laws in your state, then it's still homeschooling. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

For me, anything is homeschooling if I have to report what I'm doing or what my child is doing to my local district because what they are doing is not recognized as a private school situation.  Any kind of distance ed, K12, co-ops, tutoring, etc. is not something I can use/enroll my kid in and not have to report it to my district.  My state of residence does not recognize stuff like on-line schools or distance learning or any of that.  Heck, even if I enroll my kid in college courses nearly full time and they are under 18, I'm supposed to report that to the district.  Which is stupid, but that's another discussion.  LOL

 

I really don't get hung up on this though.  People can call any of this whatever they want.  I think the only time I get a little bit weirded out is when people tell me they are homeschooling their three year old. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

When I taught High school, I assigned readings from texts, I showed videos etc.  I explained.  This is exactly what I do with a program like Apologia, whether it is written to the student or not.  Some of it depends on the child and the subject.  Some children esp. in some subjects need less direct instruction esp. in the upper grades.  But they still need discussion and feedback.  I've found this the case for my kids even with outsourced classes - I'm still very much tracking their learning and am filling in gaps as needed.  (Which I realize only addresses part of what you asked, but it is the part that I'm familiar with).

[freesia]

Well, if I have to file a homeschooling education plan with the town, in which I assume responsibility for my dds' education then I'm homeschooling.

 

At the high school level, if I'm also the one putting together the transcript and writing the guidance counselor letter to colleges (so haven't signed up for a full program anywhere), then I'm homeschooling, even if most or all of the classes are outsourced.

 

A public charter, full distance learning program. or full-time cc that would mean that I don't have to file an ed plan, and for high school takes over making the whole transcript and guidance letters is not.

Except that in NY, you are considered homeschooling by law if you use a full distance learning program. So, philosophically, one may argue that isn't homeschooling, legally at least one state still considers it to be homeschooling.

 

I agree with your first part, though. I think that if my child attended a charter program where I taught most of the classes (and just had oversight) I would still consider myself to be homeschooling, though. Particularly if I chose the curriculum that we used.

[Ellie]

 

I think the only time I get a little bit weirded out is when people tell me they are homeschooling their three year old. 

 

:iagree:

[happypamama]

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that someone who uses Saxon math or SOTW, or using worksheets that you printed from the Internet, isn't homeschooling. It's just silly to assume that's what I meant:-) I said *all* subjects video/on-line, or all content subjects in a co-op or quasi-co-op or community college. And I didn't say it was "wrong." And technically, if your children are not enrolled in a public or private school, if you have to comply with any homeschool laws in your state, then it's still homeschooling.

Oh, no worries; that wasn't a direct reply to you or anyone. I hadn't even read any replies. That was all merely my opinion and not a reaction to anyone else's opinion. I do think we need to be careful about being too nit picky about what qualifies as homeschooling, so that it doesn't become another battle in the Mommy wars, but I do agree with you completely on your last point.

[happypamama]

I don't mind if people say they're homeschooling their 3yo, because if I were sending my children to school, I'd probably send my 3yo to preschool to learn whatever it is that I felt a 3yo ought to know, whether that was academics or how to be away from Mom or how to wait in line or whatever. So when someone says they're homeschooling their 3yo, I assume they mean they have made a conscious choice not to send their child to preschool and feel that their child will learn the important preschool skills at home (doesn't mean I then expect to see a hefty preschool curriculum in use, because they might be of the life is learning model for littles that I tend to favor).

 

I do find it a little more odd when people say they're homeschooling their 1 yo or 2 yo, but who knows? Maybe in their area, people routinely send their toddlers to a school, and maybe they're reacting to that. I guess I would tell someone that I'm homeschooling my 3yo if they asked (like if I had just the 1yo and 3yo out, and someone asked about preschool), because we've consciously chosen not to send him to preschool, but I wouldn't say that I'm homeschooling the 1yo (although, LOL, we are certainly providing him with a multi sensory environment where he learns new stuff every day).

[dauphin]

Not saying you're doing this, but in the past when this subject has come up, "What counts as homeschooling?" It's basically so people can look down on and exclude someone who isn't following their definition of homeschooling. So my first reaction is, why does it matter? I love that there are so many educational opportunities out there and in general I don't think expecting everyone's education to look the same. It doesn't really seem like labels are really necessary. If a family considers themselves homeschoolers but their kids take most of their classes online and through co-ops, who am I to say that this "doesn't count" as homeschooling. And why would I even care?

 

Sorry if my intentions weren't clear. See, that was kind of my reaction as well why does it matter how the homeschooling gets done (and since I'm homeschooling primarily for individualized educational options, then I kind of assume that individualizing homeschooling according to each family's and child's needs is a matter of course. These kinds of conversations haven't come up in my circles so they were so foreign to me that I wanted to understand it better. But then again, I don't run with a lot of HS'ing pioneers (that discussion about pioneers vs settlers vs refugees was striking to me and I have come back to that thought on several different occasions to mull it over). I'm far more in the refugee mode.

 

I think it matters because every word needs a definition. "Homeschooling" needs a definition.

 

Personally, I don't care what other people are doing (as long as there's no educational neglect). However, if I'm going to be lumped together with other "homeschoolers", then we all ought to be pretty much the same, otherwise the word doesn't mean anything anymore.

 

Think of what's going on with the Adam Lanza report. He "homeschooled" only in the fact that his public school instruction was taking place through distance learning at home. Now the state of Connecticut is trying to introduce oversight measures for all homeschoolers to make sure the Sandy Hook tragedy doesn't happen again. The problem? He wasn't homeschooled! He had homebound public education, which is not the same thing. Now, because of the blurring of lines and the no-set-standard-definition, all bona fide homeschoolers may have to pay the price.

 

That's just one example of why a clear definition is necessary.

 

I would like to see a new set of monikers. Homeschoolers are those who provide at least 50% of the instruction themselves, according the HSLDA. I think that's a fair definition. But I'd also like to see new words emerge for public-school-at-home as well as for those who outsource all or nearly all of the instruction. Perhaps "personal education management"or something like that, whereby instead of being classified as a homeschooler one would be called an "education manager" or something.

 

Again, I'm not looking down my nose at people who choose distance learning, charter-school-at-home, outsourcing, whatever. I think finding the best possible educational solution that fits your family's needs is great! But I do think it needs to be called something else.

 

Eta: This type of thread has a way of blowing up, so I likely won't be responding anymore.

 

I guess I'm saying "if you want to say something Isn't ___" then it makes sense that I would want a definition from you to know HOW you know that it's not. Objective and measurable. I may not AGREE with why you think that it's not, but I can at least UNDERSTAND how and why you drew that conclusion. Does that make sense. I'm thinking more from an analytical viewpoint, at least I think I am. Anthropologist on Mars and all that (Temple Grandin reference....).

 

See, even about the bolded: so how do you define "provides 50% of the instruction?" Wouldn't that unfairly exclude advanced/high school students, where the bulk of their learning may rely upon textbooks, DE, self-guided courses, etc.). What exactly constitutes "providing instruction?" KWIM?

 

But from the other thread, I can see that coming up with a definition, in the end, is still going to tick SOMEBODY off. 

 

My best offering at the moment: Alternative Educational Options. Defined by the absence of comprehensive/full-time enrollment with a traditional educational setting such as public or private schools. You'll get your public school-DE lumped in with your full-time-taught by mom. But from MY perspective (see that's why I said tell me YOUR definition - because yours being different from mine doesn't make either one right or wrong, but it helps us stop talking at cross purposes because now I understand WHY you call ___ a ___ and not ____) that's good because we're all in it to individualize according to the needs of the child. 

[....]

It's unnerving as it gets closer. :-/

 

I agree!!   :eek:

[maize]

I tend to use the term home educated as an umbrella term for kids who are educated primarily outside of the k-12 brick and mortar school system. This includes kids who are privately homeschooled as well as those who are enrolled in virtual public charter schools. It includes both students who spend their days studying at home and those who attend co-ops, community college classes, etc. It includes those whose parents teach them directly, those who study independently, and those who primarily learn from online classes. It includes kids who take a few classes at the local public school.

 

Every one of these options represents a choice to step outside of the standard educational path and the taking of personal ownership for forging an education. People make such choices for many different reasons, with different objectives in mind. Of course their are significant differences between these varied routes, and sometimes we need to distinguish between them. I don't think that blanket definitions and distinctions are very useful, however. A private homeschooler enrolled in structured co-op and online courses may have more in common with brick and mortar students than a public charter school student following an unschooling approach (as some are able to do with the more flexible charter school options). Sometimes distinctions need to be made based on legal standing, other times it may be helpful to distinguish between philosophical approaches, educational methods, setting and delivery of instruction, etc.

 

I love the variety of options available.

[G5052]

I go with the legal definition in my state.  

 

If you file a notice of intent, and then testing/evaluation at the end of the year, you're homeschooling.  The includes everyone who outsources, either partially or completely.

 

Those who use the local university model school are not considered to be homeschooling.  They got a ruling from the state, and give the families a copy of the letter that states that they are considered a private school even though the kids only go there 2-3 days a week.

 

I've gotten the "you aren't homeschooling if you outsource," but frankly it doesn't hold water for me.  I carefully pick where I outsource, and I am still in charge of their curriculum and testing in the spring.  I do their transcript.  Obviously if we were 100% outsourcing and the transcript came from an accredited school, it gets a little foggy, but in the eyes of the state, it is still homeschooling.

[texasmama]

We have a friend whose two sons are using a variety of co op classes, university model school classes and online classes. The sons are 16 and 13. She has always run her homeschool this way. She also has a graduated student in college.

 

I still think of her as a homeschooler and the kids as being homeschooled even though she is not actually teaching any of the material. She finds classes or online options, pays for them, purchases materials, and takes the kids to and from these classes. They still spend more time at home (and do their work at home) than kids attending public or private school. In a sense, she has created for her kids a university model school experience by cobbling together several resources. Her kids will not receive a diploma or transcript from any institution, though they are taking appropriate courses for their age/grade level. So they are homeschooled, in my view.

[Desert Strawberry]

With the exception of discussing literature, my oldest is doing everything on his own this year.  I am legally responsible for providing him with an education, which I have done by selecting the textbooks/materials/ that he is using this year.  Therefore, I am  homeschooling him.

 

This is us, except writing, not lit. 

 

He argued that he is schooling himself. He does his assignments, paces himself, checks his work, and uses self-correcting programs. All independent. 

 

Except, I chose all those materials. I supply them. I give him the assignments. I check in to be sure it's getting done. I assist and guide him i his work as needed. No one else is doing any teaching, supervision, or guidance. All of that still falls on me.

 

I consider this still homeschooling. It's easy on me, yes. I give him credit for working on his own. But I am still overseeing his education in a very hands-on way. 

 

If I was outsourcing anything, or everything, I might feel differently. Perhaps I would feel the same, as I would still be finding the classes, paying and coordinating everything. But maybe not. I don't know. 

[Sahamamama]

Well, if I have to file a homeschooling education plan with the town, in which I assume responsibility for my dds' education then I'm homeschooling.

 

 

Except that in NY, you are considered homeschooling by law if you use a full distance learning program. So, philosophically, one may argue that isn't homeschooling, legally at least one state still considers it to be homeschooling.

 

It gets even more complicated. ;) I'm not sure we can define "not really homeschooling anymore" by state or local requirements, since these vary so widely.

 

For example, in NJ, you don't have to file at all. We don't register here with anyone -- not the State, nor the county, nor the school district. We don't submit an affidavit of intent, test scores, medical records, attendance records, course objectives, reading lists, portfolios, evaluations, or anything. Nobody knows what we do or don't do. But if our children are not enrolled in school, then we are held legally responsible for providing "equivalent instruction."

 

At present, I directly teach everything (except music) to my three children. I expect that configuration to change shape as their needs surpass my abilities. Won't be long now! :lol:

[Desert Strawberry]

Legally, we are registered as a private school. I can outsource everything or nothing and I am still legally a private school. We have no further reporting. There is no legal definition of homeschooling in my state. Home Study is the state-approved and regulated option for home schooling, but most of us don't use it. If we do, the state provides a diploma and possibly transcripts, even though they supply us with nothing more than a document to fill out and a 1 hour meeting once a year. The actual schooling looks exactly like what we are doing now.

Eh. Legal definitions are messy.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree with those who refer to the legal definition.

 

It has to do with who is in charge of that student's education, in my opinion.  Is a school program of whatever kind in charge - ie. doing all the grading, limiting choices by requiring certain texts, certain assignments, certain sequences?  Or is the parent doing that (even with 99% student involvement)?  What tools you use within that structure - textbooks, media, live lectures, "living" books,  mentors or tutors  etc. is irrelevant because tools don't make choices.  And yes, I listed mentors and tutors as tools in this scenario because unless they are in charge, they are a means to an end.

[SeaConquest]

Legally, my son is a public school student, as he is enrolled in a homeschooling charter school in CA. However, I still consider us homeschoolers for several reasons. First, I am primarily responsible for his education (the school makes this very clear when you enroll). Second, I choose his course of study and curricula (we are secular homeschoolers, but could use religious materials on our dime if we wanted). Third, I choose the pace at which he studies (he is currently accelerated by several grade levels and it is not an issue at all) and do all of the teaching in his core subjects. We turn in one work sample from each subject every other month and keep a PE log. Easy peasy. Some annual testing is also optional (though strongly encouraged), beginning in 3rd or 4th grade, as I recall. We are not test-averse, so this is not a big deal for us, but I know plenty others who opt out.

 

On the plus side, my son is able to take optional classes (fun stuff like Lego, music, art, robotics, foreign language, and art), as well as go on field trips all over Southern California, provided by the charter. We also receive a yearly stipend for extracurriculars and books/materials. These extras have made a world of difference for my extroverted son who needs a great deal of interaction with others. Financially, it also takes some of the pressure off our budget.

 

Once my son reaches high school, the freedom and flexibility of privately homeschooling will likely outweigh the benefits of the charter, but I can see us staying with a charter through most of the K-8 years.  

[HS Mom in NC]

In the state of AZ you cannot be legally recognized as a homeschooler if you're using public school or public charter school online.  If you do that, you have to register as a public school or public charter school student. You cannot have a homeschooling affidavit on file. The fliers and websites for this use the term "public school at home" or "charter school at home" and are not allowed to use the term homeschooling for the sake of keeping the legal definition clear.  Homeschoolers are exempt from mandatory testing. Public school at home and public charter school at home are not exempt from mandatory testing.

 

I only care about people using terms specifically in conversation to avoid confusion.  I think it's great to have so many options.  When legal definitions get fuzzy some innocent family usually gets screwed. If the terms don't have a fairly similarly understood meaning by everyone in a conversation, they fail to be useful. But I also don't want to get into being one of those hyper vigilant word police either.  Since people insist on using them differently, they'll just have to put up with people having a different definition. Others don't like my definition and I don't have to like their definition. 

 

Yes, there are people here who outsource every single thing.  They have a homeschooling affidavit on file here in AZ. They send their kids to several what they call co-ops for everything, they teach nothing and don't help teach the co-op.  I don't personally consider them homeschoolers.  I think there should be a legal term, definition and law to protect what they do, but it's not homeschooling if you ask me. They don't do what I do.  I actually teach all the concepts. Just because something is scripted (I don't use scripted materials) doesn't mean the parent doesn't have to further explain or take it from a completely different angle.

[MarkT]

Legally, my son is a public school student, as he is enrolled in a homeschooling charter school in CA.

...

 

http://www.horizoncharterschools.org/educational-resources/home-teaching-independent-study.html

 

Interesting - in AZ a charter school is all or none (virtual or physical school)

[Crimson Wife]

To me, if the child is spending >15 hrs/wk in ONE classroom setting, that's PT private school (even if legally the parent still files whatever HS paperwork is required). Piecemealing together a bunch of classes & tutors isn't the same thing even if the total number of hours are the same because presumably it's not all the same group of students in the classroom together.

 

FT enrollment in a distance learning program also isn't HSing because the parent has little or no control over the child's education so long as he/she stays enrolled.