Food fallacies - what is true what is not? Help me discern where I'm being duped.

[momee]

My goal is to reduce grocery budget.  Saying that straight out so you know where I'm going with my questions.

 

Is Trader Joes/Whole Foods milk any different than say, Wal Mart's?

(they both say RBgH not proven to be health issue)

 

How about, say, Egglands Best eggs vs TJs cage free brown eggs?  What is the REAL health benefit?  Can't a big henhouse full of dead chickens and yucky diseased sick ones still be cage free?

 

 

 

I guess what I'm asking for is help in knowing where to put my limited grocery dollars.  What makes sense and what is me falling for a marketing ploy?  Does that makes sense, I don't know how to word it.

 

I feel like I'm buying some things out of "guilt" because they "look better" but in reality they aren't any healthier than a cheaper option.

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

Cage free only means that they are not caged. So instead of being trapped in a cage, they are trapped in a large building with hundreds of other chickens. They're not fed any better either. Same old layer ration.

 

Is there a farmer's market anywhere close? Know any rural people? Put out the word that you want to buy eggs and stuff if you can.

 

Here's some help.

 

http://eatlocalgrown.com/article/12735-what-do-organic-natural-cage-free-and-grass-fed-food-labels-really-mean.html

 

http://www.redrover.org/commonly-used-food-labeling-terms

 

 

[Momling]

You're right that sometimes companies are using your guilt to sell their product. See if you can buy local - if not, check out ratings like this one: http://www.cornucopia.org/organic-egg-scorecard/. I've seen dairy ratings somewhere too. I don't think there's that much health benefit, but I'd like to avoid unethical companies trying to jump on an "organic" bandwagon for marketing purposes.

[momee]

Fairfarmhand - that info does not make me any happier :(

I am actually realizing how often I have been falling for sneaky labeling.

 

[Dory]

There is a very big difference between free range and cage free. I can put 5 chickens in a little box and basically say they are cage free because I didn't use a cage. Free range, on the other hand, says they have roomy access to the outdoors. Field chickens would also have access to the outdoors.

[Tanaqui]

You're right, cage-free is a term that has been subverted to mean "following this strictly legal definition, that isn't much better than other factory farms".

 

If this is something that concerns you, I suggest finding a small-scale supplier that you can speak to personally, such as at a farmer's market. You might try looking into "pasture raised" eggs, but that term isn't regulated at all, afaik.

 

If you need to reduce your grocery budget, but still want to buy the healthiest (and most ethical*?) options, then the truth is you're going to have to go mostly vegan. More beans, less eggs and milk and meat.

 

* Not debating this. We all have different ethical guidelines we follow. If you don't consider this a matter of ethics, that's your business, not mine. If you do, that is likewise your business and not mine

 

Free range, on the other hand, says they have roomy access to the outdoors.

 

Not legally, at least, not for layers.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_range#Free-range_poultry

 

And when there isn't a solid legal definition (or when it's not enforced), people can say whatever they want. The trick is to pay attention to the newer buzzword before the scammers start paying attention to it, or, again, to go with small scale farmers.

 

[Artichoke]

I've found the best way to reduce my budget and to eat healthier is to stop shopping at the grocery store as much as possible.

 

Some places that I now shop are :

 

Local veggie CSA and my own raised bed garden

Honey from the local beekeepers instead of buying local honey at Whole Foods

Azure Standard for many items

Milk and eggs from Aldi's ( check out their source by asking the employees. They're not supposed to tell, but they often will )

Grass-fed beef from local farmers is often comparable or better in price than the grocery stores -- especially ground beef

 

Things I used to do:

 

Cow share for raw milk -- if you're not opposed to raw milk ( cheaper than organic milk at the grocery in our area )

Eggs from a local farmer ( more expensive than Aldi's or Eggland's best, but oh so delicious! )

 

Sign-up for Whole Foods emails to get their specials,and then stock up. My last stock-up was organic free range chicken for only $1.79 a pound. I bought eighteen chickens.

 

I know it takes money and a freezer to start stocking up, but it can be done. Start by saving your grocery dollars by eating what you already have and putting that week's grocery dollars towards sale items. Have frugal meals for a couple of weeks, and you'll start to see the cash you need to change your buying strategies. Happy shopping!

[VaKim]

I've found the best way to reduce my budget and to eat healthier is to stop shopping at the grocery store as much as possible.

 

Some places that I now shop are :

 

Local veggie CSA and my own raised bed garden

Honey from the local beekeepers instead of buying local honey at Whole Foods

Azure Standard for many items

Milk and eggs from Aldi's ( check out their source by asking the employees. They're not supposed to tell, but they often will )

Grass-fed beef from local farmers is often comparable or better in price than the grocery stores -- especially ground beef

 

Things I used to do:

 

Cow share for raw milk -- if you're not opposed to raw milk ( cheaper than organic milk at the grocery in our area )

Eggs from a local farmer ( more expensive than Aldi's or Eggland's best, but oh so delicious! )

 

Sign-up for Whole Foods emails to get their specials,and then stock up. My last stock-up was organic free range chicken for only $1.79 a pound. I bought eighteen chickens.

 

I know it takes money and a freezer to start stocking up, but it can be done. Start by saving your grocery dollars by eating what you already have and putting that week's grocery dollars towards sale items. Have frugal meals for a couple of weeks, and you'll start to see the cash you need to change your buying strategies. Happy shopping!

How I envy you people with all these wonderful options.  :(

[J-rap]

We don't have a Whole Foods or any co-op in our area, but I always get the "Select" brands that are hormone-free.  Now and then our store will randomly have an all-organic version and then I get that.  From what I have heard, one of the biggest things to try and stay away from (regarding milk) are the hormone additives. 

[Ellie]

My goal is to reduce grocery budget.  Saying that straight out so you know where I'm going with my questions.

 

Is Trader Joes/Whole Foods milk any different than say, Wal Mart's?

(they both say RBgH not proven to be health issue)

 

How about, say, Egglands Best eggs vs TJs cage free brown eggs?  What is the REAL health benefit?  Can't a big henhouse full of dead chickens and yucky diseased sick ones still be cage free?

 

 

 

I guess what I'm asking for is help in knowing where to put my limited grocery dollars.  What makes sense and what is me falling for a marketing ploy?  Does that makes sense, I don't know how to word it.

 

I feel like I'm buying some things out of "guilt" because they "look better" but in reality they aren't any healthier than a cheaper option.

 

You can only do what you can do.

 

Brown eggs are no healthier than white or green or paisley. Look for brands that say "vegetarian" fed, so you're at least getting eggs from chickens that weren't fed other dead animals, and hormone-free.

 

Look for milk that comes from cows that are drug-free (no antibiotics, no growth hormones, etc.).

 

I cannot afford eggs that are $5 per dozen. I guess in the long run, that's a decent price, all things considered, but when I can buy eggs from Sprout's for less than $2 a dozen, and the carton says the chickens were vegetarian and hadn't been drugged, I'm ok with that $3 difference.

 

We don't use milk as a beverage, so even when my dc were home we didn't go through a gallon of milk a week, ever. So I'm ok with spending bigger bucks on milk that comes from cows that are drug-free. If I could easily get raw milk, I'd do that (not an option in Texas). If you use lots of milk, then get what you can afford. Or learn to consume less milk (it's healthier for you, anyway), and pay more for the milk that you do buy.

[Artichoke]

How I envy you people with all these wonderful options. :(

It's quite true that different areas have different options, but most of the farming/CSA options are 45 minutes to two hours away from me. Our WF is about an hour away which is why I subscribe to the emails so I know when I should plan to go.

 

Maybe you have some of the same options farther away and could split the driving with others. That's what we do with our CSA. I also used to do it for milk and eggs, but it was a four hour round trip every six weeks and that got to be old fast. We have a sometimes local source for eggs but not one for milk so we just get it at the grocery.

 

If you're in the states, you may have an Azure Standard drop nearby; or you could possibly start one. It's not difficult to coordinate a drop point.

 

I hope I don't come across as preachy. I just know firsthand the frustration of finding options for less expensive wholesome food for our family.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Artichoke

[Artichoke]

You can only do what you can do.

I agree so much with this and want to like it a gazillion times! So many times, including times in my life, healthy eating/living can become an idol with a never-ending clamor for more of our attention and money. It's just not worth the stress and pressure that we can place on ourselves to reach the "perfect" food plan for our families when there are so many other things on which we can spend our time.

[Liz CA]

How I envy you people with all these wonderful options.  :(

 

Azure Standard delivers but if they do not deliver to your home town, check out http://www.greenpolkadotbox.com/?SSAID=594007

 

Here are other sources for grains and spices: http://www.pureindianfoods.com/buy-indian-grocery-online-s/34.htm

Compared to organic store prices, their prices are lower on some items - in my area at least.

[linders]

Cage free only means that they are not caged. So instead of being trapped in a cage, they are trapped in a large building with hundreds of other chickens. They're not fed any better either. Same old layer ration.

 

Is there a farmer's market anywhere close? Know any rural people? Put out the word that you want to buy eggs and stuff if you can.

 

 

Unfortunately for many families, small farm/free range chicken eggs may be out of their price range. We live in a smallish town surrounded by rural area, with several independent people selling organic free-range eggs at the farmer's market. For $5/dozen.

[Sdel]

Brown eggs are no healthier than white or green or paisley. Look for brands that say "vegetarian" fed, so you're at least getting eggs from chickens that weren't fed other dead animals, and hormone-free.

 

 

Oh....this so annoys me.  I DO understand all about by-products and their sources and not wanting animals fed all that, but chickens ARE NOT naturally vegetarians.  They naturally eat a lot of insect protein and I really don't feel like it makes a better animal product when they are 'vegetarian' fed.  Same with fish.

 

Stefanie

 

 

[cjzimmer1]

I try to eat healthy and we have made changes over the years but there are some things that I have gone back to conventional on.  You have to look at your own needs. 

 

For instance, everyone and their brother talks about free range eggs and how wonderfully they are.  I tried them multiple times.  When I compared to store eggs, yes the yolk was slightly darker but not significantly so.  Despite trying multiple farmers I've never seen these "dark-orange" yolks that so many herald.  (and to be honest my dad raised chickens in a corn field when I was a kid and I would pick up stray eggs and feed them to the cats, those never had orange yolks either).  Then as far as taste goes, I couldn't taste a speck of difference.  But then I realized, we only use eggs in baking as no one really likes scrambled/fried eggs.  So of course if there was any flavor difference it would be lost among the flavors of whatever it was cooked with.  So I went back to conventional eggs.  As it is we only go through a dozen every couple of weeks.  But there are people who eat lots of eggs, clearly notice a difference and for them it makes sense to spend the extra bucks, for me not so much.

 

On the other hand, I only buy grass fed beef, I find even the smell of conventional beef to be nasueating  and so it is very much worth it for me to pay more for grassfed.

 

I didn't notice much difference on chicken and pork was somewhere in between chicken and beef.  So I let my budget dictate which way I go on those.

 

On produce, yes organic is the ideal but my budget can't handle it.  I buy most of my produce from the Amish.  Yes they still use some spray's but not much as they don't like to spend extra on production costs.  Also I figure having a wide variety of produce in abundance is healthier than a few limited options of "cheap" organic produce when those are my only choices within my budget constraints.

 

When buying in the store, I do try to opt for the most natural, least processed, least additives I can find within reason.

 

So I guess for me, I let my taste buds, common sense and by budget dictate my choices more than research.  Maybe that's not the best health wise decision but it does alleviate a lot of the "guilt" about not eating a fully organic diet.

[Ellie]

Oh....this so annoys me.  I DO understand all about by-products and their sources and not wanting animals fed all that, but chickens ARE NOT naturally vegetarians.  They naturally eat a lot of insect protein and I really don't feel like it makes a better animal product when they are 'vegetarian' fed.  Same with fish.

 

Stefanie

 

This is true. :-)

 

I guess it grosses me out to think which non-vegetarian stuff the chickies might have been fed, lol.

[Hyacinth]

You can only do what you can do.

 

Brown eggs are no healthier than white or green or paisley. Look for brands that say "vegetarian" fed, so you're at least getting eggs from chickens that weren't fed other dead animals, and hormone-free.

 

Look for milk that comes from cows that are drug-free (no antibiotics, no growth hormones, etc.).

 

I cannot afford eggs that are $5 per dozen. I guess in the long run, that's a decent price, all things considered, but when I can buy eggs from Sprout's for less than $2 a dozen, and the carton says the chickens were vegetarian and hadn't been drugged, I'm ok with that $3 difference.

 

We don't use milk as a beverage, so even when my dc were home we didn't go through a gallon of milk a week, ever. So I'm ok with spending bigger bucks on milk that comes from cows that are drug-free. If I could easily get raw milk, I'd do that (not an option in Texas). If you use lots of milk, then get what you can afford. Or learn to consume less milk (it's healthier for you, anyway), and pay more for the milk that you do buy.

 

Really appreciating this thread! I can appreciate the OP's frustration. Currently, I shop at no fewer than four stores for our groceries. It's tiresome, and I still feel like I regularly fall short in one of the three categories I'm trying to balance: quality, quantity, and budget. It's a juggling act to be sure.  

 

Regarding eggs: Does "vegetarian fed" mean the chickens were likely fed soy? Which was probably GMO soy (as most soy grown in the country is)?

 

 

[Sdel]

Really appreciating this thread! I can appreciate the OP's frustration. Currently, I shop at no fewer than four stores for our groceries. It's tiresome, and I still feel like I regularly fall short in one of the three categories I'm trying to balance: quality, quantity, and budget. It's a juggling act to be sure.  

 

Regarding eggs: Does "vegetarian fed" mean the chickens were likely fed soy? Which was probably GMO soy (as most soy grown in the country is)?

 

Yes.  Soybean meal is the main "protein" component in all conventionally fed animal diets.  Probably close to 45-50%, with corn being the other main "energy" component.

 

Stefanie

[fairfarmhand]

Unfortunately for many families, small farm/free range chicken eggs may be out of their price range. We live in a smallish town surrounded by rural area, with several independent people selling organic free-range eggs at the farmer's market. For $5/dozen.

GAH!

 

That's awful.

 

Honestly, I give eggs away in the spring and summer when I have too many. Part of the reason we farm is so that I can be generous to my friends.

 

If people insist on helping with the cost, they give me what a dozen from the store would cost.

 

But for me, it's not a money making thing. It's just to feed my own family. Extra eggs are just a bonus.

[Artichoke]

Double post-- sorry!

[*lifeoftheparty*]

I also use the score card from Cornucopia Institute. They are non-profit, so I am trusting/hoping that they are not being bribed.

 

I used to buy the Organic Milk from Trader Joes, or sometimes get Horizons- but after reading their milk score cards- I stopped. Now I get it from local places or Whole Foods, or even Wegmans, who all got good scores.

I buy a lot of the 365 Brand of food at Whole Foods, which is sometimes cheaper than normal grocery stores.

We have this local "store" that is basically a CSA- they have relationships with a bunch of local farms, butchers, etc. and you order from them, then go pick up the food. The prices aren't really cheaper, but it keeps me from walking around the grocery store, so I don't pick up stuff I don't need.

The things that I absolutely refuse to "go cheap" on are.... Organic Milk, Grass-fed beef (only buy from Whole Foods or CSA), Pork, and the "dirty dozen" produce.

 

With everything else, I try to buy Organic, gluten-free, local, etc. but sometimes, I just have to compromise and buy what I have $$ for.

 

 

[Artichoke]

GAH!

 

That's awful.

 

Honestly, I give eggs away in the spring and summer when I have too many. Part of the reason we farm is so that I can be generous to my friends.

 

If people insist on helping with the cost, they give me what a dozen from the store would cost.

 

 

But for me, it's not a money making thing. It's just to feed my own family. Extra eggs are just a bonus.

This is such a generous thing to do! We have a similar arrangement with friends, and we really really appreciate it! They charge $2 a dozen to help cover any feed costs, and you bring your own bowl or carton. Eggs aren't washed and buying is on the honor system. Mostly their chickens forage and have some table scraps. When the days start getting shorter, they usually don't have any extras and friends know not to ask. It's a win-win for everyone.

 

ETA: Eggs at our local farmer's market start at $5 a dozen for white and brown. Dozens that have other colors mixed in are usually $7.50. It's crazy to see what some folks are willing to pay.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

I wanted to come back and give you the info. for the milk....

http://www.cornucopia.org/dairy_brand_ratings/

 

We go through 4-5 gallons of milk per week- my two kids drink it *a lot*, so I always buy Organic. In the case of milk, I think it's the people who believe that conventional milk is just as good as organic, that are being duped.

This article, which I chose because I don't think it has any bias (I don't think), talks about the difference in what conventional vs. organic dairy cows are fed. And as we know from breastfeeding, what the mother eats, and how well the mothers standard of living is (stress, sleep, diet, etc.) has an impact on her milk supply, right?
 

Take two women.... one is very stressed out, lives in poverty, eats nothing but McDonalds, never gets outside, never exercises. The other has normal stress, does not live in poverty, eats a healthy diet at least half the time, gets outside regularly and is able to exercise. Which do you think will have healthier milk.

This article talks about the fact that the ratio of omega fatty acids are much healthier in organic milk. Which makes complete sense- a healthy cow will make healthy milk, an unhealthy cow will make unhealthy milk.

 

I'm sure you can reserach it more- but from everything I have read- along with a few anecdotal experiences of local dairy farms- we have made the decision to only buy Organic milk. And we use the score card from Cornucopia to (hopefully) make sure we aren't being duped.

 

 

[Laura Corin]

Something that I heard last night that I thought was interesting.  The researcher was talking about how unreliable statistics were about meat eating and heart disease because, for example, grass fed beef has a different balance of fatty acids to corn-fed beef.  So you can't take information from one country and extrapolate it to another, because the food is just different, even if it has the same name.  It's at about minute 7 on the full-width interview with Professor Khaw.

 

L

[fairfarmhand]

Something that I heard last night that I thought was interesting.  The researcher was talking about how unreliable statistics were about meat eating and heart disease because, for example, grass fed beef has a different balance of fatty acids to corn-fed beef.  So you can't take information from one country and extrapolate it to another, because the food is just different, even if it has the same name.  It's at about minute 7 on the full-width interview with Professor Khaw.

 

L

yup. Grass fed beef is totally different from typical feed lot meat.

[hornblower]

Going plant based is cheap :)

Someone here did a 1.50/day challenge http://www.forksoverknives.com/my-1-50-a-day-challenge-eating-a-plant-based-diet-on-an-austere-budget/

 

WRT fallacies - I don't know. There's little evidence for many things & sometimes you have to go by ethics or other principles rather than true evidence. A lot of dietary stuff is pushed by agricultural big interests, lobbyists for all the large commodities producers, & multi nationals. There's a lot of controversy about registered dieticians and nutritionists accepting corporate sponsorships from these organizations. How much do you trust someone to tell you that you need to have x ingredient when that commodities manufacturer's logo was all over your conference materials, lanyards, napkins, etc.

 

egg production - except on a smaller scale or backyard etc always has some level of cruelty. The male chicks are killed at birth - some are ground alive.

 

I can't find a US chart, but this Australian chart shows the various certification standards & what they mean. While the specific labels will not be applicable, the general categories are.

 

http://www.makeitpossible.com/guides/egg-labels.php

 

 

We were vegetarian for over 20 years before we went vegan a few years ago. I did buy free range eggs from an SPCA approved supplier. They cost about $6/dozen. I bought organic milk too.

Going vegan definitely saved us money.

 

If you're interested in food facts from a plant based perspective: Nutrition Facts run by Dr Michael Greger is a good place. He does regular podcasts & always refers to the actual research in his transcripts so you can looks stuff up if you want to. http://nutritionfacts.org/

 

Forks over Knives is also good.

[Laura Corin]

yup. Grass fed beef is totally different from typical feed lot meat.

 

This makes it hard for UK consumers to find mass data, because much information is American, but intensive farming of beef is much less common here.

 

L

[SamanthaCarter]

Not a whole lot of advice to the OP, but you have my commiseration. Everything local around here goes for a premium. I can buy boxes of blemished apples for a reasonable price to make into applesauce. That saves me money on organic applesauce. And we have a dairy in this region that produces good quality humanely produced milk that is competitive in price to the mass produced organic milks in the health food section. 

 

But we have no Aldi, no TJs, nothing but Kroger, Walmart and difficult-to-afford local stuff. I don't blame the farmers. I understand they need to make a living and be fairly compensated. That's why I've gotten to where I don't go to the farmer's markets anymore. I don't want to feel guilty about not buying and I don't want to blow my entire grocery budget on half of what we need for the week. 

 

I know I will fall prey to the organic/humane/natural marketing at the store. But you've got to buy something!

[LibraryLover]

Unfortunately for many families, small farm/free range chicken eggs may be out of their price range. We live in a smallish town surrounded by rural area, with several independent people selling organic free-range eggs at the farmer's market. For $5/dozen.

 

True free range eggs here in the Bay Area are upwards of $10/dozen.  Less than $1/egg, but still pricey.  Raw organic grass fed butter is $14.00/lb. Local grass fed beef is about 8.99/lb, and a decent-sized true free range chicken is about $30, less for stewing birds. Raw milk is $12/half gallon. None of it is hard to find, but COL here is astronomical. I do not know how most young families manage. Even if you are vegan, it's pretty costly, although not as bad as being omnivore.  Organic avocados are $2 each.

 

I'm doing more vegetarian like hummus and cucumbers, peanut butter with a little coconut oil (on sprouted bread for dd), large salads (because lettuce is relatively inexpensive compared to other items), with small amounts of cheese or a hardboiled egg, chopped avocado, big stir fry with lots of bulky veggies etc. Black beans on corn tortillas with some homemade salsa, a bit of shredded cheese with ground pork also seems to go a long way.

 

My best meat bargain here is grass fed liver. So many people hate it;  it's still a bargain. I really am a fan. ;) My dds hate it, so more for me.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I stopped thinking too hard about it.  At the end of the day some stuff is obvious enough.  Like carrots are better than Twinkies.  A home cooked meal is better than a Banquet frozen dinner.  You know things get silly when you see stuff like cage free organic lollipops.  I know, that's an exaggeration, but honestly only slightly.  Even terms like "all natural" are not regulated.  I even read recently that if something says GMO free it might not be GMO free because that isn't regulated either.  Organic is.  So the stuff is supposed to really be organic and that includes GMO free.  Not sure I even buy that all the time though since I wonder how some products can be found GMO free (like soy, corn, etc.). 

 

I don't always buy organic.  I will if it is similar in price to regular.  I don't buy cage free eggs.  I've seen a cage free farm.  Nothing special.  They weren't in a cage, but they were in a small pen.  They didn't get all that much "range". 

 

People always say buy local.  Another impossibility for a lot of people.  The only thing local to me is apples.  And they spray them with pesticides just like all the other apples at the store.  So, again, nothing special.  Uh and did I mention they are often way more expensive. 

 

And I wouldn't completely dis Walmart . I was there yesterday and they had 1 pound boxes of fresh organic spinach for a dollar!  That's crazy! 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

True free range eggs here in the Bay Area are upwards of $10/dozen.  Less than $1/egg, but still pricey.  Raw organic grass fed butter is $14.00/lb. Local grass fed beef is about 8.99/lb, and a decent-sized true free range chicken is about $30, less for stewing birds. Raw milk is $12/half gallon. None of it is hard to find, but COL here is astronomical. I do not know how most young families manage. Even if you are vegan, it's pretty costly, although not as bad as being omnivore.  Organic avocados are $2 each.

 

Beef is getting so expensive.  Even the regular store beef is just OUCH. 

 

What kinda wigs me out is my local store sells Australian beef and it's cheaper.  Quite a bit cheaper.  I have nothing against Australia or their beef, but it just seems pretty crazy to me that it comes from that far and is cheaper (and they claim all grass fed).

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh and don't get me started on the fact the stores stick a giant sticker on every single piece of organic produce.  I know why they do it, but if you are buying the stuff to stay away from chemicals, wouldn't the giant sticker be a problem?  That drives me nuts.

 

 

[LibraryLover]

Right! When I buy grass fed beef at the local market (as opposed to the FM on Saturday), I get Eel River, which is N CA. But there is another brand-- from Estonia. Why would I buy that? Part of the reason I gave up being vegetarian was because I found it was harder to eat locally. I am certainly not going to buy meat from Estonia.

 

I save my guilt on that for coconut  and olive oil, coffee etc.  Living on the west coast also means I can eat avocados without as much fossil fuel guilt.

 

 

Beef is getting so expensive.  Even the regular store beef is just OUCH. 

 

What kinda wigs me out is my local store sells Australian beef and it's cheaper.  Quite a bit cheaper.  I have nothing against Australia or their beef, but it just seems pretty crazy to me that it comes from that far and is cheaper (and they claim all grass fed).

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Right! When I buy grass fed beef at the local market (as opposed to the FM on Saturday), I get Eel River, which is N CA. But there is another brand-- from Estonia. Why would I buy that? Part of the reason I gave up being vegetarian  is was harder to eat locally. I am certainly not going to buy meat from Estonia.

 

I save my guilt on that for coffee and French olive oil, mostly.

 

Of all the places!  Estonia?!  Huh...

[hornblower]

I remember seeing the numbers but I don't have the reference now...

 

The carbon footprint of meat and dairy is huge. From a fossil fuel GHG standpoint it was def better to eat a transported plant based diet than locally farmed meat.

[LibraryLover]

Except that some of us are stuck with winter for much of the year. :(  Not me currently, but that was my reality.

 

There is also a lot of room for discussion on this. Factory farming takes a huge toll on the environment, but local, diverse, and sustainable farming is something quite different.

 

www.polyfacefarms.com

 

 

I remember seeing the numbers but I don't have the reference now...

The carbon footprint of meat and dairy is huge. From a fossil fuel GHG standpoint it was def better to eat a transported plant based diet than locally farmed meat.

 

[hornblower]

Except that some of us are stuck with winter for much of the year. :( Not me currently, but that was my reality.

I'm canadian :)

[LibraryLover]

I'm canadian :)

 

Gardening challenge. :)

[Katy]

I don't think there's much of a difference between supermarket options, except possibly for Aldi's, who follows a lot of stricter European standards (all their milk is hormone free, for example), and their fresh chicken breasts don't have a bunch of saline injected.

 

I don't think Whole Foods is actually better at pretty much anything except finding expensive organic ingredients and processed specialty diet foods (gluten free, etc).

 

The most ethical and local food is from local farmers and ranchers.  Sometimes small grocery stores have local sources and aren't overpriced.  Sometimes co-ops are the best source. Sometimes Farmer's Markets or farm stands are, although in some surprising places (Iowa, Kansas) even produce at a lot of farmer's markets are imported from Mexico.

 

 

[hornblower]

Gardening challenge. :)

Fortunately I'm in the best little bit of Canada. We can pretty much grow kale year round. :D

 

The rest of the country though....... Brrrr.

[Hyacinth]

Yes.  Soybean meal is the main "protein" component in all conventionally fed animal diets.  Probably close to 45-50%, with corn being the other main "energy" component.

 

Stefanie

 

So, a little off topic here, but do you know if someone with a soy allergy should avoid such animal products, or if it doesn't matter by that point? And what are "non-conventionally fed" animals eating? Thanks!

[LibraryLover]

Many people do avoid animals fed soy. This is hard to do, and expensive.  The $10 eggs I was referring to are free range and soy-free. As are the free range/ pastured chickens. Soy is in most everything processed. Some people can handle it, some can't. It's a highly sprayed crop in the US as well.  Our economy runs as much on soy and corn crops as it does on oil production. (Wheat as well.)

 

Can that much soy and corn be good for most of us?  Its an area of controversy.

 

 

[ScoutTN]

So, a little off topic here, but do you know if someone with a soy allergy should avoid such animal products, or if it doesn't matter by that point? And what are "non-conventionally fed" animals eating? Thanks!

The eggs we buy come from chx who eat green plants, bugs, leftover garden veggies and non-GMO layer feed. No soy.

 

Our beef and milk come from cows that eat grass and hay. No soy, no grain.

 

I don't know about the soy allergy. I wonder if all the spy fed animals are not part of the reason for the rise in soy allergies?

[*lifeoftheparty*]

I stopped thinking too hard about it.  At the end of the day some stuff is obvious enough.  Like carrots are better than Twinkies.  A home cooked meal is better than a Banquet frozen dinner.  You know things get silly when you see stuff like cage free organic lollipops.  I know, that's an exaggeration, but honestly only slightly.  Even terms like "all natural" are not regulated.  I even read recently that if something says GMO free it might not be GMO free because that isn't regulated either.  Organic is.  So the stuff is supposed to really be organic and that includes GMO free.  Not sure I even buy that all the time though since I wonder how some products can be found GMO free (like soy, corn, etc.). 

 

I don't always buy organic.  I will if it is similar in price to regular.  I don't buy cage free eggs.  I've seen a cage free farm.  Nothing special.  They weren't in a cage, but they were in a small pen.  They didn't get all that much "range". 

 

People always say buy local.  Another impossibility for a lot of people.  The only thing local to me is apples.  And they spray them with pesticides just like all the other apples at the store.  So, again, nothing special.  Uh and did I mention they are often way more expensive. 

 

And I wouldn't completely dis Walmart . I was there yesterday and they had 1 pound boxes of fresh organic spinach for a dollar!  That's crazy! 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

 

No. I still completely dis, hate, loathe and detest Wal-Mart.... as with everything else, the only way they can afford to enter the "organics" game is to cut corners and cheat the farmers. There is no such thing as a free lunch you know? I treat way cheap products with suspicion- the *real* cost of food is not dirt cheap-  someone, somewhere, is paying a high price for those low prices at Wal-Mart.

 

No judgment on you btw, I know some people have no choice. But I hate that company with a passion.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

I don't think there's much of a difference between supermarket options, except possibly for Aldi's, who follows a lot of stricter European standards (all their milk is hormone free, for example), and their fresh chicken breasts don't have a bunch of saline injected.

 

I don't think Whole Foods is actually better at pretty much anything except finding expensive organic ingredients and processed specialty diet foods (gluten free, etc).

 

The most ethical and local food is from local farmers and ranchers.  Sometimes small grocery stores have local sources and aren't overpriced.  Sometimes co-ops are the best source. Sometimes Farmer's Markets or farm stands are, although in some surprising places (Iowa, Kansas) even produce at a lot of farmer's markets are imported from Mexico.

 

Whole Foods *is* better at a lot of things, actually. Not everything, of course, but a lot. The company treats their employees better, and offers them more/better benefits than normal grocery stores do. I spend quite a bit of time there, doing my shopping- I talk to a lot of the employees, they are very happy with their jobs, and it shows.

 

They have better quality control too. And their 365 Brand has some foods cheaper than the name brand junk you can get elsewhere. They have an in house butcher, and fishmongers. And their food is just above and beyond the quality that I see in stores like Shoppers, Giant, Safeway, etc. I am so spoiled by Whole Foods produce that I have to make a mental note to *not* sneer in dusgust when I walk in normal stores and look at their icky produce. (Yes, I am a total food snob.)

 

But I do agree that the most ethical is from local farms/ranches. We have just started using this awesome CSA that offers all kinds of stuff that they procure weekly from local farms.

[ScoutTN]

We do what we can within budget constraints. Milk, eggs and beef I usually buy from local small farmers. I have been to all three farms and seen their animals and how they live, are fed etc. We have a garden and a CSA share that is very reasonably priced and drops off 2 miles from my house. If I have extra grocery money, sometimes I get some pastured pork. We often buy ground meats and bone-in roasts rather than the premium cuts. Bones are not expensive and make great, healthy stock which becomes the base of many an inexpensive meal. I often use meat in a casserole or soup so we eat less of it.

 

We shop at Aldi, Walmart, Kroger, Costco, Trader Joes - depends on the week, the budget, the sales, where I am in town etc. Some months we need to repair my van or get a cavity filled or go on a vacation instead of eating better food.

 

I am with Sparkly on not letting the food thing get too crazy. Do what you can. Eat real food. Lots of veggies. Teach your kids to cook. Grow something you can eat, even if it's just some herbs. Eat together. Enjoy the wondrous variety of foods we have available to us. Read the news and be thankful to live somewhere that we can be concerned with food quality instead of with surviving! Perspective.

[SparklyUnicorn]

No. I still completely dis, hate, loathe and detest Wal-Mart.... as with everything else, the only way they can afford to enter the "organics" game is to cut corners and cheat the farmers. There is no such thing as a free lunch you know? I treat way cheap products with suspicion- the *real* cost of food is not dirt cheap-  someone, somewhere, is paying a high price for those low prices at Wal-Mart.

 

No judgment on you btw, I know some people have no choice. But I hate that company with a passion.

 

I hear you.  I have mixed feelings.  I have so many conflicting thoughts.

[Desert Strawberry]

Oh and don't get me started on the fact the stores stick a giant sticker on every single piece of organic produce.  I know why they do it, but if you are buying the stuff to stay away from chemicals, wouldn't the giant sticker be a problem?  That drives me nuts.

 

The stickers are edible.  http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/01/15/fruit-label-sticker-facts

[Rosie_0801]

Beef is getting so expensive.  Even the regular store beef is just OUCH. 

 

What kinda wigs me out is my local store sells Australian beef and it's cheaper.  Quite a bit cheaper.  I have nothing against Australia or their beef, but it just seems pretty crazy to me that it comes from that far and is cheaper (and they claim all grass fed).

 

Yeah, well it wiggs me out that we were ploughing oranges into the ground while importing oranges from Brazil, and I have nothing against Brazil or their oranges either. In this case it came down to fuel taxes being lower on plane fuel than truck fuel. Maybe you've got the same thing happening.