State trooper arrested for shooting unarmed man

[Kathryn]

Have you seen this? This is so local to me that I drive past this gas station often. I cannot believe this video. I have no idea how his lawyer thinks he's going to get a jury to find him innocent.

 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5879694

[kitten18]

I saw the video today.  I thought it was so bizarre.  It didn't look...malicious? (I can't find the right word).

It looked to me like he panicked, which of course is completely unacceptable and I believe he deserved to be fired.

I have no idea what will happen with his case.

[Stacia]

I just saw that same story on Google news.

 

Wow. The Dashcam video is completely disturbing.

[Word Nerd]

Terrible. And it was over a seatbelt violation?! I hope he's held accountable.

[kitten18]

Terrible. And it was over a seatbelt violation?!

Really??? I didn't read the article.  That is CRAZY!

[Word Nerd]

Really??? I didn't read the article. That is CRAZY!

Yup. From a statement linked in the article: "Groubert had finished with another traffic stop when he initiated a traffic stop on Mr. Levar Edward Jones, age 35, of Columbia for a safety belt violation."

[StephanieZ]

Unbelievable. Beyond the obvious disturbing fact of the unjustified and abusive shooting, the most disturbing thing to me is the pleading words of the poor man who has been shot repeatedly apologizing and explaining his actions and whereabouts. It makes me feel that he is trying to prevent further abuse by this mad man. What a sad testament to the expectation of abuse that young men, and maybe most black men, have every day. That is horrible. For a seatbelt violation?

 

How many white people does that police officer pull over for seat belt violations? 

 

I hope that SOB goes to jail and that injured man gets a big fat settlement check. 

 

To serve and protect . . . really? Is that what they are doing? Protect whom? Serve whom?

[TammyinTN]

This is really scary and crazy.    My kids are in that area and we talked about it tonight.  I think common sense has completely left our nation!

[Mrs Mungo]

That is completely insane. The cop asked for his license, the victim reaches for it, and the cop just starts shooting. Yet, people claim we are in a post-racism world. I am glad that THIS time the act was recorded. Wow, what a testament for dash cams.

 

They claim we don't need feminism, despite stories like this:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/23/oklahoma-police-rape_n_5870752.html

 

It is astounding.

[Woodhaven]

Yes, I saw that earlier today.  It seemed like the officer was really jumpy and rushed to the conclusion that he was about to be threatened.  I wonder what happened to him to cause him to respond in such way.  It is very clear that he should have never pulled his weapon.  Clearly, the officer is in the wrong and the man he pulled over was clearly not being abusive in any way to the officer.  Even after he had been shot he didn't get ugly. 

 

I'm glad that was caught on camera WITH the voice recorded as well.

[momacacia]

Wow, I'm amazed at how calm the cop stayed. I mean, I just shot somebody for doing what I'd told them to do and I'm all cool and collected after the fact. Sheesh!

[Catwoman]

Absolutely horrifying.

[Cinder]

That was truly disturbing.

[Mimm]

This is infuriating. After the whole Ferguson mess you'd think police everywhere would take a moment and pause before yanking out a gun and shooting someone like a damn lunatic! I hope this man serves time for assault with a deadly weapon. What a disgusting human being.

[nansk]

It looked to me like he panicked, which of course is completely unacceptable and I believe he deserved to be fired.

 

It is interesting that he appeared to have panicked before and then appeared to be completely calm after having fired four shots at an unarmed man.

[catz]

This makes me want to cry. Absolutely horrible. I hope that cop spends a long time in jail.

[celticmom]

I am pleasantly surprised that the policeman is facing consequences for his stupidity, incompetence, and/or brutality(take your pick or all of the above).

[Angie in VA]

Thank God for the voice recording.

It broke my heart when he started apologizing.

This!

[Seasider]

Thank God for the voice recording. You can clearly hear him ask for his liscense...the man turns toward his car to get it...the officer screams at him.....he turns around....he gets shot.

 

It broke my heart when he started apologizing.

This is exactly how I felt watching it. His bewildered voice asking, "Why did you shoot me?"

 

Awful.

[Truscifi]

I saw this today. It is beyond bizarre. Dh and I can't decide if the trooper is racist or just crazy. Or maybe both. :confused1:

[JessReplanted]

Sad. Scary. Horrifying.  :(

 

[Ravin]

Did you see the man in the background? Standing there watching, probably not daring to a approach but not looking away. Witness?

 

Tough one for a defense attorney. It's not up to the attorney whether to go to trial. That's the defendant's decision. It's the attorney's job to do the best they can for him if he insists on it.

[Mrs Mungo]

I saw this today. It is beyond bizarre. Dh and I can't decide if the trooper is racist or just crazy. Or maybe both. :confused1:

  

 

Maybe he isn't either. Maybe he has an implicit association between black men and weapons, which led him to interpret the man leaning into his car to get his ID as a threat....

And you don't think that would be racist?

[Mrs Mungo]

The point is that we are often unaware of implicit associations. And those associations are often made for us by the culture we live in. So maybe it's more correct to say it was an act arising out of a racist culture. Maybe calling individuals racist is just a way to diffuse cultural responsibility for systemic racism.

 

Or maybe he's just an old fashioned, completely aware of it individual racist who likes to shoot black guys. Idk.

 

 

Do you think every cop who told him to get his ID, then watched him lean into the car would shoot?If not, then it isn't an idea rampant in the culture, which means it is an idea strictly in the cop in question. One can be racist (or perpetrate a racist act) without realizing you (It) is racist. There is a particular older extended family member who constantly tells racist stories. My kids have grown up in extremely integrated societies. They are *not* accostomed to such talk, it was extremely surprising to them. But, I promise that the relative in question would utterly deny that the stories were racist.

 

Example, "there is this girl at work named X. She is black, but (in a tone of surprise) she is a really hard little worker!"

 

I mean, it's obviously awful, if not surprising.

Why is it not surprising? Do you honestly think cops are shooting black guys every day in the US? They are not. This is beyond surprising.

[stripe]

This is just so horribly offensive, but I doubt incidents in Ferguson had any effect on his thinking (like, maybe suggesting wild shooting of the unarmed might be a poor decision). I think it's obvious Sadie is right that he sees black man and thinks DANGER and MUST BE SHOT! And, of course, this is racist. And, in my experience,  certainly most/all racist people either think they're not racist or that their racism is completely justified (and they have circular reasoning about it). 

 

I am delighted, though, that there was a recording AND that he survived, that it wasn't a fatal shooting. This sort of thing both gets swept under the rug and leads to countless deaths far too often. 

[Stacia]

The point is that we are often unaware of implicit associations. And those associations are often made for us by the culture we live in. So maybe it's more correct to say it was an act arising out of a racist culture. Maybe calling individuals racist is just a way to diffuse cultural responsibility for systemic racism.

Shootings like this could also be arising out of our prevalent gun culture too. It is relatively easy for a regular citizen to be armed with high-caliber weapons. Armor-piercing bullets are out there, etc.... So perhaps his crazy response is an effect of that too. Fwiw, a different SC cop was shot and killed just a week or two ago by armor-piercing bullets as he & fellow officers knocked on an apt. door. (The others were wounded.)

 

Not that this officer in this discussion was justified at all. He was not & I am glad the audio & video were there as impartial witnesses. I am heartbroken & upset on behalf of the guy who was shot, wondering if his quality of life (physical, mental) will ever be the same. I suspect not. And all because he didn't have a seatbelt on? What a total crock. (And did racism play into the fact that a black man was pulled over re: a seatbelt in the first place? A resounding yes would probably be the likely answer.)

 

But I do think both racism & our gun culture play into scenarios like this. It's something America needs to get real about facing, but most real discussions in our society are hijacked by extremists looking to create controversy & agitate the masses that their gun rights are more important.

 

And now I'll stop because I am going to need more than a flameproof suit.

[Word Nerd]

I mean, it's obviously awful, if not surprising.

I don't understand this comment. It isn't surprising that a trooper suddenly shot someone during a minor traffic stop?

[Kathryn]

I don't understand this comment. It isn't surprising that a trooper suddenly shot someone during a minor traffic stop?

In broad daylight at a crowded gas station.

[Kathryn]

In today's local paper, there is speculation about PTSD from a shootout two years ago: http://www.thestate.com/2014/09/25/3705026/lawyer-trooper-in-shooting-may.html?sp=/99/205/&ihp=1#story_tnt

[creekland]

I suspect many police officers are more on edge now with the recent shootings all around.  I know my cousin is a police officer and said the decisions they have to make at a split second are mind boggling.  Is he reaching for his license or a gun?

 

That doesn't help.  I agree with those who have suggested more training - and for the rest of us - being doubly careful if we're in any similar situation.

 

I'm in firm agreement that this man should never have been shot and that racial thoughts likely played a part in it, but in a way, I can feel for the police officer too.  I don't think he should keep his job and that the man who was shot deserves a bit of compensation.  I feel badly for him too - very badly.  Jail time?  I doubt I would go that far unless they could prove a racist background or history for the cop.

[Word Nerd]

I am not understanding why people are moving without informing the officer of intent. When I took drivers ed way back in the jurassic, before drugs had come to the community, we were told to keep hands in view at all times and ask permission to retreive, stating where the license was. For ex. 'Sir, my license is in my purse in the passenger front seat. Shall I get it now?' and of course only make the appropriate motions and only retreiving the purse. We were then to ask permission to open the purse to get the license. 

 

I was never taught that, nor have I ever asked for permission to comply when an officer has asked to see my license and registration. (Not that it happens often.)

 

[CaffeineDiary]

Imagine being a young black man and having to think to yourself, every single day, "I hope I don't get shot by the police for leaving the house today."

 

Imagine being in a Wal-Mart and having to think to yourself "I had better not pick up that BB gun, because if I do I might get murdered."

 

[Dad 4 Boys]

The thing that struck me about this incident is how quickly the driver turns around and leans into his vehicle to get his license, as the officer instructed him to do.  My impression was that he leaned into the vehicle and moved more quickly than one would normally expect someone to move in that instance.  This could have put the officer in a full blown defensive mode, since he didn't know what the driver was going to come out with.  When the driver spun around after getting his license from the vehicle, the officer had a split-second to act.  He obviously chose to shoot what turned out to be an unarmed man.

 

I'm in no way saying that this shooting was justified or that the officer shouldn't be held accountable.  I'm not, nor have I ever been a law enforcement officer, but I think this could have been handled much better from the start of the interaction between the two.  Regardless of why the officer stopped the vehicle, it seems like he should have controlled the driver's actions a little more closely.  It seems to make sense to me that the office would have approached the driver and talked with him some before instructing him to get something from the vehicle.  That could have set a better tone to the whole incident and prevent the rapid escalation by the officer.

 

Obviously, we don't know much about the officer and his experiences and history that affected his handling of this situation.  It's unfortunate that we live in a world where this kind of danger exists.  However, I'm truly thankful that there are men & women willing to put their lives on the line every day to try to keep it all sorted out the best they can.  Until there are some major changes, I fear it will only get worse from both perspectives.  Also, I can fully understand the fear that these officers face each day that can lead to poor decision making like this.

 

I don't think that we should be so quick to judge this officer, or anyone for that matter, as a racist based solely on a single story like this.

[justasque]

You know, when you ask someone for their license, they are going to have to reach *somewhere* to get it, and that somewhere could also hold any number of other things. Would it not be better for cops in general to lead the person through the steps more carefully. "Please stay where you are. Let me see your hands. Don't move. Now, without moving, can you answer my questions? Do you have a license? Where is your license?" And so forth, informing the person of if and how the officer wants him to move. It seems like this would be safer for both the officer and the person they stop, rather than assuming that they both know to follow some kind of standard script.

[Pawz4me]

You know, when you ask someone for their license, they are going to have to reach *somewhere* to get it, and that somewhere could also hold any number of other things. Would it not be better for cops in general to lead the person through the steps more carefully. "Please stay where you are. Let me see your hands. Don't move. Now, without moving, can you answer my questions? Do you have a license? Where is your license?" And so forth, informing the person of if and how the officer wants him to move. It seems like this would be safer for both the officer and the person they stop, rather than assuming that they both know to follow some kind of standard script.

 

I totally agree.

 

Why is the responsibility on the person to keep his/her hands in sight in the absence of clear instructions to do so by the officer?  For the LEOs I know, traffic stops are a very routine part of their normal day.  For the overwhelming majority of citizens, a traffic stop is NOT a part of their normal day, and can cause a high amount of stress to a typically very calm person.  And yet the responsibility is on the citizen to think clearly enough in a highly stressful (to him) situation to keep his hands in sight even after being given a direct order by the LEO?  That doesn't seem very reasonable to me.

[NotSoObvious]

This is clearly poor judgment, no matter what the reasons. Of course we are all grateful police officers put their lives on the line. That doesn't mean that every police officer should be one!

[CaffeineDiary]

Imagine being the teen working at the gas station on the closing shift Fri or Sat night. That is a lot of risk for 8 dollars an hour

 

Yep, I agree that it must be terrible to be a young black teen working at a gas station on the closing shift that way.  It's good of you to point out that blacks are threatened in the same situations in which whites are threatened as well.

 

However, there's an important difference.  If I'm working at a gas station or a convenience store, I know I have a heightened risk of some crazy meth-head robbing me.  What's shocking about the Wal-Mart and SC "seat belt" shootings that were the subject of this thread is how absolutely innocuous the victims were being.  They were just living their lives when out of nowhere they were gunned down by the police.  The horrifying thing about it isn't just their death (or injury), but how baldly these shootings reveal the ugly truth: that it's open hunting season on black men in America.

 

I have picked up BB guns in Wal-mart.  It would never occur to me that I would be shot for doing so.

 

Regarding the "why did the guy turn back into the car so quickly?" question - while the officer wasn't in frame in that video, it's seems likely to me from the timing that he must have already had his gun drawn.  When a police officer is pointing a gun at you, you obey his instructions right away.  The officer said "Give me your license", and the kid tried to comply.  The fact that the officer was charged with a felony - which, let's be clear, practically never happens in cases like this - should put the "let's blame the victim" discussion to rest.

[Word Nerd]

I am dumbfounded that anyone could watch and listen to this video and read that the trooper has been fired for misconduct and arrested--yet still claim we don't know enough about the situation to judge his actions. (I'm not referring to this thread in particular, but I've seen that sentiment expressed in other posts and comments elsewhere. )

 

(I do think it's unreasonable to assume the trooper must be a racist because he stopped the man for a seatbelt violation.)

[Mimm]

I am not understanding why people are moving without informing the officer of intent. When I took drivers ed way back in the jurassic, before drugs had come to the community, we were told to keep hands in view at all times and ask permission to retreive, stating where the license was. For ex. 'Sir, my license is in my purse in the passenger front seat. Shall I get it now?' and of course only make the appropriate motions and only retreiving the purse. We were then to ask permission to open the purse to get the license. Add in that a trooper was shot last week in PA, it is understandable that they are nervous.

 

Seriously? We're supposed to ask for permission to obey every order a cop gives you for fear of being shot? This is insane to me. You do know that cops abuse their power, that they are unjustifiably violent at times, that they take advantage of women sometimes. Are we supposed to ask permission to obey unjust and abusive orders too? Should we always obey, even when our rights are being violated?

 

You know, when you ask someone for their license, they are going to have to reach *somewhere* to get it, and that somewhere could also hold any number of other things. Would it not be better for cops in general to lead the person through the steps more carefully. "Please stay where you are. Let me see your hands. Don't move. Now, without moving, can you answer my questions? Do you have a license? Where is your license?" And so forth, informing the person of if and how the officer wants him to move. It seems like this would be safer for both the officer and the person they stop, rather than assuming that they both know to follow some kind of standard script.

 

Seriously, this. So the guy reached back in his truck. So? He was told to get something. When people are told to get something, generally they reach for it. If the victim had had his license in his pocket and reached for it, would the cop have gunned him down? After all, he might have a weapon there. If you are seriously that ready to shoot people for any excuse whatsoever, you need to tell them exactly what to do. He didn't tell the guy to tell him where his license is, he told the guy to get the license. With the attitude people have that cops must be obeyed at all times no matter what, I would be surprised if someone defended an officer for shooting someone who failed to obey fast enough because he was busy asking permission to obey an order he was just given.

 

I am dumbfounded that anyone could watch and listen to this video and read that the trooper has been fired for misconduct and arrested--yet still claim we don't know enough about the situation to judge his actions. (I'm not referring to this thread in particular, but I've seen that sentiment expressed in other posts and comments elsewhere. )

 

(I do think it's unreasonable to assume the trooper must be a racist because he stopped the man for a seatbelt violation.)

 

Seriously. What more information do we need? A recording of people's thoughts? A thorough history of every somewhat traumatic event in the person's life? If this officer had been beat up by a black kid and had his bike stolen when he was ten, would that make his actions more justifiable, more sympathetic? Um, NO. The video was clear and I'm loving the idea of cops having videos on them at all times.

[Danestress]

Cop responds badly in a situation involving a black guy ? That surprises you ? I'm surprised about that....

 

I guess the thing that surprises me a little is that the shooting was so totally unwarranted - it makes no sense. And Richmond county kis 45% black. While I would assume racism is a real and ugly part of this, there must be something else going on with this trooper. I don't think it is possible for most people to live in SC and be so freaked out by a black person that they start shooting. My guess is that this trooper probably pulled over both black and white people all the time. When your racial ratio is that balanced, almost everyone lives near, dines near, goes to school with, and generally mixes with both races every day. That doesn't mean people aren't bigoted, but I don't think racism can give a full picture here.

 

It's totally inexcuseable. But I do wonder if the trooper was mentally unhinged somehow.

[stripe]

I am not understanding why people are moving without informing the officer of intent. When I took drivers ed way back in the jurassic, before drugs had come to the community, we were told to keep hands in view at all times and ask permission to retreive, stating where the license was. For ex. 'Sir, my license is in my purse in the passenger front seat. Shall I get it now?' and of course only make the appropriate motions and only retreiving the purse. We were then to ask permission to open the purse to get the license. Add in that a trooper was shot last week in PA, it is understandable that they are nervous.

I obtained my driver's license as an adult; although I took the class in high school, where my unaccredited teacher had to supervise us watching instructional videos of very poor quality from the 70s; there was no classroom requirement for me. I have no memory of a procedure being articulated for being stopped.

 

Many drivers learned to drive in other countries as adults and also never take a class, merely pass the written and in car tests. Some drivers have hearing problems or speak English only somewhat. Some people got their license 50+ years ago and have no memory of what they may have learned before seat belts existed. Most drivers are nervous when pulled over by the cops. So expecting regular people to follow some script that no one is clearly articulating, seems silly. It's the police who should have a script and procedure that doesn't involve shooting everyone!

 

Further, it just isn't clear how obeying the instruction to get your license needs to be followed up with asking permission to get your license.

Police officer: License and registration.

Driver: So, should I get my license?

Police officer: I need to see your license.

Driver: So I should use my hands to reach into my purse to get my license?

I am just not seeing this. It could be interpreted as being a smart aleck and get you shot.

[Angie in VA]

I tend to obsess about this kind of thing, so I haven't looked for any more articles on this case, so will someone please tell me if the victim is expected to make a full recovery?

 

His apologies just haunt me. 

[LucyStoner]

I am just so glad the man lived. Obviously the officer was too trigger happy and I think legal acton is more than warranted. But thank goodness this man isn't dead for the officer's mistake.

 

I have reached into my pockets, my purse, across my seat, into my glove box, into my door pocket etc for my wallet, registration, license etc. Without saying what I was doing and without being so much as snapped at. I'm also generally let go without an infraction being recorded. I would be crazy if I didn't think that was mostly because I'm a white woman perceived as a middle class mom. I can't imagine blaming the victim here. Even if it would have been wise to say what he was doing, not saying it doesn't merit shooting someone.

[Mrs Mungo]

I tend to obsess about this kind of thing, so I haven't looked for any more articles on this case, so will someone please tell me if the victim is expected to make a full recovery?

 

He was released from the hospital after being treated for his hip injury.

[Laurie4b]

I am not understanding why people are moving without informing the officer of intent. When I took drivers ed way back in the jurassic, before drugs had come to the community, we were told to keep hands in view at all times and ask permission to retreive, stating where the license was. For ex. 'Sir, my license is in my purse in the passenger front seat. Shall I get it now?' and of course only make the appropriate motions and only retreiving the purse. We were then to ask permission to open the purse to get the license. Add in that a trooper was shot last week in PA, it is understandable that they are nervous.

I must be pre-Jurassic because I was never taught that. But, even if kids are taught that in highway safety, getting stopped by the police is going to be a rare event. It would be nice if we all remembered what we are supposed to do in a rare event, but when knowledge doesn't get used very often, it can fade.

 

You know, when you ask someone for their license, they are going to have to reach *somewhere* to get it, and that somewhere could also hold any number of other things. Would it not be better for cops in general to lead the person through the steps more carefully. "Please stay where you are. Let me see your hands. Don't move. Now, without moving, can you answer my questions? Do you have a license? Where is your license?" And so forth, informing the person of if and how the officer wants him to move. It seems like this would be safer for both the officer and the person they stop, rather than assuming that they both know to follow some kind of standard script.

 

This is what should happen exactly. If a cop doesn't want ambiguous motions, he or she should spell out what procedure will make them comfortable. It is the professional's job to do this, not the job of the motorist pulled over for a seat belt violation.

[Laurie4b]

Thank God for the voice recording. You can clearly hear him ask for his liscense...the man turns toward his car to get it...the officer screams at him.....he turns around....he gets shot.

 

It broke my heart when he started apologizing.

 

Yes, and the officer states that he shot him because he "told him to get out of the car and you just dove back in your car" I can't hear him say that--can anyone else? All I heard was, " Can I see your license?"

 

It's completely offensive after shooting the guy for *obeying* him, and who has put his hands up, that he wants an injured man to get on the ground and put his hands behind his back, when the guy is trying to show him he has his license in his hands. Isn't that relevant and shouldn't that change the officer's attitude to , "Oh no! I just shot someone who was following my directions. He's not a threat and I shot him."

 

ETA:

 

He does soften his voice some after he realizes what he's done...

 

When I re-listened to the video, I heard him yell something *as* the guy was turning away from his car, and I guess that could be "stay in your car?" But LEOs need to realize that when they shout and speak quickly, people may not understand them.

 

I am so thankful that he was a poor shot.

[RanchGirl]

I am not defending the police officer, who has been fired and is being prosecuted.  I am so glad the driver will be ok.  I know many will want to call this an example of racism, but I don't know the thoughts of the officer so I can't get to that conclusion without more information. 

 

I am not sure if it currently taught in drivers ed or on license exams, but I consider it a given that drivers who are stopped by a police offer should:

(1) pull over on the street or shoulder (not up to the door of a store/gas station).

(2) stay in the vehicle, don't get out unless you are told to by the officer.

(3) not make sudden moves that can be misinterpreted.

 

This is what I do and what I am teaching my children.  I truly do not state this in order to blame the driver or justify the shooting.  IMO the driver didn't appear to even know he was being pulled over at all until he was out of his vehicle and heard the officer speak to him.

 

For those who didn't read the article:

 

South Carolina Department of Public Safety Director Leroy Smith called the case disturbing.

 

"After my review of the facts surrounding this matter, I have determined that Mr. Groubert’s actions rose to such an extent that his employment with us must be terminated," Smith said in a statement last week. "While Mr. Groubert was within the law to stop Mr. Jones for a safety belt violation, the force administered in this case was unwarranted, inconsistent with how our troopers are trained, and clearly in violation of Department policies."

Groubert pleaded not guilty and is free after posting a $75,000 bond, according to WIS-TV. He's expected to appear in court on Oct. 24.

 

Jones was hospitalized for the hip injury, but has since been released. He told WIS that he hopes the incident will lead to change throughout the country.

[Mrs Mungo]

I am not sure if it currently taught in drivers ed or on license exams, but I consider it a given that drivers who are stopped by a police offer should:

(1) pull over on the street or shoulder (not up to the door of a store/gas station).

(2) stay in the vehicle, don't get out unless you are told to by the officer.

(3) not make sudden moves that can be misinterpreted.

 

This is what I do and what I am teaching my children.  I truly do not state this in order to blame the driver or justify the shooting.  IMO the driver didn't appear to even know he was being pulled over at all until he was out of his vehicle and heard the officer speak to him.

But, this doesn't reflect what happened.

 

Judging from the video and the articles:

0:00 The officer finishes with one traffic stop

 

0:27 The officer starts to pull out of the gas station

 

0:34 the officer must have noticed that Jones wasn't wearing a seat belt (since the articles say the stop was for a seat belt violation) because he backs back into the gas station

 

0:39 Jones was already out of his car when the police officer pulled in behind him

 

0:42 The officer gets out of his car and approaches and asks Jones for his license

 

0:44 Jones reaches into his vehicle to get his wallet *as requested by the officer* (my dh doesn't drive with his wallet in his back pocket because it isn't comfortable, many guys don't)

 

0:46 the officer shoots immediately without real warning at all.

 

0:48 The officer continues to shoot after Jones is away from the car with his hands up.

 

I don't think it would occur to your average person to say, "it's in the car," or give some kind of warning *while complying* with an officer's request.

[Laurie4b]

I am not defending the police officer, who has been fired and is being prosecuted.  I am so glad the driver will be ok.  I know many will want to call this an example of racism, but I don't know the thoughts of the officer so I can't get to that conclusion without more information. 

 

I am not sure if it currently taught in drivers ed or on license exams, but I consider it a given that drivers who are stopped by a police offer should:

(1) pull over on the street or shoulder (not up to the door of a store/gas station).

(2) stay in the vehicle, don't get out unless you are told to by the officer.

(3) not make sudden moves that can be misinterpreted.

 

This is what I do and what I am teaching my children.  I truly do not state this in order to blame the driver or justify the shooting.  IMO the driver didn't appear to even know he was being pulled over at all until he was out of his vehicle and heard the officer speak to him.

 

For those who didn't read the article:

 

The driver was pulling into the gas station; he had taken off his seat belt as he was pulling in, anticipating that he would get out of the car, and the cop saw that. I agree with you, that he may not even have realized he was the one being pulled. It looked to me that he was confused as to what was happening or whether he was the target.

 

I've gotten out of my car when pulled and walked toward the police car. It was just after college. No one shot me.

 

When I get pulled now (last time was broken tail light) , I immediately rummage around for the registration, and get my license. I feel very safe doing that since I'm a white woman. If a LEO spoke to me rudely, I would consider asking him to speak to me respectfully in the actual exchange. I would sure as heck report any disrespect.

 

If I was a black woman or man, I would put my hands on the steering wheel and sit there and  be obsequious in response to all statements from the police, no matter how rude or disrespectful. I would hope that I could reach my cell video recorder before being pulled over to record what happened.

 

Racism doesn't have to be a conscious choice to be there and to affect our behavior. We all have "shortcuts" that our minds take and make quick judgments about situations. To the extent that black men are perceived as threatening until proven otherwise, they are going to be treated unfairly because of that---even if the person is not consciously doing that.  Unless the cop says he was thinking racist things, you'll never know conclusively that racism played a part. Statistics say it's likely.

[Mrs Mungo]

*as* the guy was turning away from his car, and I guess that could be "stay in your car?"

I think he is saying "get out of the car." 0:45