Why Latin?

[Btervet]

I'm trying to decide whether I should teach Latin to my son, but am having difficulty finding old posts here with the search function. Does anyone have links to old threads about the benefits of Latin? New input would be welcome as well.

 

My goals are a science and history heavy education, with strong foundational skills. I also want my son to be fluent in Spanish by the time he is an adult. I'm sure Latin would be beneficial in a vacuum, but I'm not sure if it is worth the time and energy it would take. I don't know any Latin at all, so I'm thinking about this now so I can learn ahead as needed.

 

Thank you.

[MiMi 4under3]

This doesn't answer your question, and I haven't learned to link threads yet, but check out the book, Getting Started with Latin, by Linney. It's an excellent, clear, easy to follow, open-and-go, beginner course.

[EKS]

The reason we did Latin was not for any benefits to the student.  It was because it was the only foreign language course I felt we could do in a homeschool setting given there is no conversation element.  

[Dmmetler]

My DD came to Latin out of science, specifically, taxonomy. She's since realized how much taxonomy isn't actually derived from Latin, but it gave her a place to start, and she's also developed a love of etymology.

 

Ultimately, though, we do Latin because it's fun :).

[KrissiK]

1. Fun

2. Excellent critical thinking skills

3. Good foundation for learning any of the Romance languages

4. Good foundation for English vocabulary

 

The question really should be.... why not teach Latin?

[wintermom]

I avoided Latin for years, focusing our energy on "living" languages such as French, Spanish and Swedish, and then my homeschool friend's daughter (who has studied Latin at the university level) offered Latin lessons at really affordable rates. We got a couple families together and she teaches the 5 children (ages 10 - 14) from Cambridge Latin Course. My dc LOVE it. It incorporates so much history and culture, which we studied very heavily in the past. It is a wonderful foundation for studying any language (including English), as you really understand how words function in sentences. It's a great basis for studying a Latin-based language, such as Spanish, as well, because the vocabulary will be similar.

 

I think it's wonderful to introduce a new language with someone who has a solid foundation and love for it. I would not attempt, on my own, to "teach" it while learning it myself. I know lots of people do, but in order to gain a real appreciation for all the language has to offer, learning from a "language lover" is a definite bonus. Latin is not a "dead" language at all. It's vibrant and exciting, if you get the right people to work with.

[wintermom]

The reason we did Latin was not for any benefits to the student.  It was because it was the only foreign language course I felt we could do in a homeschool setting given there is no conversation element.  

 

Well, you missed out on a lot, because there is conversation and different "schools" of ways to pronounce Latin. I just want to cry when I read this post. This is exactly why having a "language lover" to introduce a student is so key in learning languages. 

[Rebel Yell]

This doesn't answer your question, and I haven't learned to link threads yet, but check out the book, Getting Started with Latin, by Linney. It's an excellent, clear, easy to follow, open-and-go, beginner course.

 

Just started it yesterday with my 8th grader! We're doing Latin because she wants to.

[Rebel Yell]

The reason we did Latin was not for any benefits to the student.  It was because it was the only foreign language course I felt we could do in a homeschool setting given there is no conversation element.  

 

I never thought of that!  I LIKE it!  The only reason my 10th grader decided to go with Spanish instead of German was so she could take it in a class with other people instead of at home alone on the computer.

[Reefgazer]

We teach Latin for the following reasons:  1) It satisfies a college foreign language requirement, 2) when they have gone far enough in the language, they can read original, foundational works of western civilization in the language without a filter and without needing a translation, 3) it will enrich their English vocabulary and assist with vocabulary preparation and understanding (since more than half of our words are derived from Latin), 4) it has given her a good foundation for her French study, and most importantly, 5) studying Latin requires a discipline and organization that has carried over into other subjects; it has made studying other subjects more efficient and effective.

[EKS]

Well, you missed out on a lot, because there is conversation and different "schools" of ways to pronounce Latin. I just want to cry when I read this post. This is exactly why having a "language lover" to introduce a student is so key in learning languages. 

 

My son has dyslexia and it is a miracle he could learn a foreign language at all.  This was box checking for us.

 

I have another son who doesn't have the same issues.  I am spending a fortune on private tutoring in German for him because I absolutely want a "language lover" to be the one teaching him.

[Lovingparent]

My son started Latin this year. It is a great foundation for learning any of the Romance languages and for English vocabulary. Another reason for us was Lukeion, it was great to know I could have my son take his foreign language class with people that are passionate and will teach it well. 

Plus Latin plays well with my son's other interests that include writing and law.

 

 

[wintermom]

My son has dyslexia and it is a miracle he could learn a foreign language at all.  This was box checking for us.

 

I have another son who doesn't have the same issues.  I am spending a fortune on private tutoring in German for him because I absolutely want a "language lover" to be the one teaching him.

 

Our Latin tutor has dyslexia. It's certainly been a challenge for her, especially to learn different ways to read and pronounce the words. She has worked hard, and she is only 15, studying both Latin and Greek. It's definitely a love that was encouraged and nurtured from her first Latin tutor and mom.  

[wintermom]

I'm really saddened by all the comments on second language being simply a box to check for college admissions. What a loss. Language is so much more than that. Language is tied to culture and history and humanity. There is an important underlying reason WHY it's a college admission requirement that goes beyond grammar and vocabulary. It's worth exploring and sharing the delights with our children.

[Btervet]

Thank you all for the input. I can see a lot of benefits in learning Latin, I'm just not sure they are worth giving up Spanish for now. Especially as it seems to me a lot of the benefits (cultural literacy, hard work, logic) can be learned in other subjects. I love the IDEA of Latin, I'm just really unsure how to fit it in. If I go with Latin, I will have to study myself for a few years, then introduce my oldest when he is a bit older. We would work on Latin alone, until he was old enough to add a third language and start Spanish. If I go with Spanish, we will start an immersion preschool 1-2 days a week immediately, and dive in at home as well. 

 

Would Latin give enough of a head start on Spanish that losing all those early years working on Spanish would be worthwhile?

 

I'm really saddened by all the comments on second language being simply a box to check for college admissions. What a loss. Language is so much more than that. Language is tied to culture and history and humanity. There is an important underlying reason WHY it's a college admission requirement that goes beyond grammar and vocabulary. It's worth exploring and sharing the delights with our children.

 

I agree with the benefits of learning it here, I'm just not sure how valuable Latin is, compared to a living, worldwide language like Spanish. I feel a real loss in my life since I am not fluent in Spanish; I can't say the same about Latin. Is there something you get out of Latin as a language that you wouldn't get out of simply studying history and reading translated texts? 

[Critterfixer]

It is a good way to practice learning language. We just diagrammed infinitive complements today in Latin, which we haven't had in English grammar yet, and I never had in any grammar before. Cool looking things.

So you could say we do it for the grammar, and for the systematic way that grammar can be taught. 

 

But I'd say the real reason we have stuck with it so far has to be that it is the language that my autistic spectrum son just instinctively gets. I like seeing his smile when he finds easy what I sometimes struggle with. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

Thank you all for the input. I can see a lot of benefits in learning Latin, I'm just not sure they are worth giving up Spanish for now. Especially as it seems to me a lot of the benefits (cultural literacy, hard work, logic) can be learned in other subjects. I love the IDEA of Latin, I'm just really unsure how to fit it in. If I go with Latin, I will have to study myself for a few years, then introduce my oldest when he is a bit older. We would work on Latin alone, until he was old enough to add a third language and start Spanish. If I go with Spanish, we will start an immersion preschool 1-2 days a week immediately, and dive in at home as well. 

 

Would Latin give enough of a head start on Spanish that losing all those early years working on Spanish would be worthwhile?

 

 

I agree with the benefits of learning it here, I'm just not sure how valuable Latin is, compared to a living, worldwide language like Spanish. I feel a real loss in my life since I am not fluent in Spanish; I can't say the same about Latin. Is there something you get out of Latin as a language that you wouldn't get out of simply studying history and reading translated texts? 

 

First:  No need to give up Spanish.  Dive into Spanish now, and hold of on Latin until Middle School or even High School.  Some parents use Latin in elementary school to teach grammar and vocabulary, which is great, but certainly not the only way to teach grammar and vocabulary.  There are other benefits to Latin that I think are more accessible at older ages.  How to languages work? How do they change over time?  How to we learn languages?  If anything, having a background in Spanish will enhance Middle School or High School Latin.

 

Second:  You don't need to take a few years to learn Latin first.  With a good curriculum its okay if you are a only a few weeks ahead of your kid.  Some cirriculums have the option of DVD instruction.  There is online instruction.  Artes Latinae is designed to be self-teaching.  You have lots of options.  Latin is doable!

 

Third:  Google does a way better job at searching the forums than the built in search function.  Try something like "open-and-go latin site:forums.welltrainedmind.com"  This limits your results to the forums and brings up several interesting threads.

[EndOfOrdinary]

We started Spanish at four because my son was asking for it, and then Latin at six because it really helped the Spanish.

 

In our case the two languages supported each other immensely. After two years of playing with the Spanish (library books, songs, television shows, short movies, etc) he needed more grammatical instruction. That was a bit difficult to find for a young child. We took on Latin and it was like a door was really opening to him. He now studies both languages, both with high school texts (not at high school pace). He is going to be ten here shortly.

 

Without the Latin instruction, he would not have a handle on Languages the way he does now. He understands them on a fundamental level due to his instruction in Latin

[JustEm]

Thank you all for the input. I can see a lot of benefits in learning Latin, I'm just not sure they are worth giving up Spanish for now. Especially as it seems to me a lot of the benefits (cultural literacy, hard work, logic) can be learned in other subjects. I love the IDEA of Latin, I'm just really unsure how to fit it in. If I go with Latin, I will have to study myself for a few years, then introduce my oldest when he is a bit older. We would work on Latin alone, until he was old enough to add a third language and start Spanish. If I go with Spanish, we will start an immersion preschool 1-2 days a week immediately, and dive in at home as well. 

 

Would Latin give enough of a head start on Spanish that losing all those early years working on Spanish would be worthwhile?

 

 

I agree with the benefits of learning it here, I'm just not sure how valuable Latin is, compared to a living, worldwide language like Spanish. I feel a real loss in my life since I am not fluent in Spanish; I can't say the same about Latin. Is there something you get out of Latin as a language that you wouldn't get out of simply studying history and reading translated texts? 

 

 

Why can't you do both?  If you aren't ready to do Latin now, which at your kid's age I wouldn't suppose you would be, you can do the immersion preschool and do it at home.  Then in 3rd or 4th grade or so introduce Latin.  He'll be far enough into Spanish that you'll likely have a good routine and a good basis for him so adding something new, even another language shouldn't be a huge issue. 

 

I fully intend to introduce Latin in 3rd or 4th grade.  My oldest is in K now and expressed interest in learning Mandarin so we started learning it together and once I get a better idea of if this is what he really wants to learn I will hire a tutor. But I still intend to also teach Latin.  I wish my son asked to learn Spanish instead on Mandarin because Spanish I know and could really get him relatively fluent in it without needing to hire anyone.  Mandarin on the other hand is a whole different world to me.

[Penguin]

First: No need to give up Spanish. Dive into Spanish now, and hold of on Latin until Middle School or even High School. Some parents use Latin in elementary school to teach grammar and vocabulary, which is great, but certainly not the only way to teach grammar and vocabulary. There are other benefits to Latin that I think are more accessible at older ages. How to languages work? How do they change over time? How to we learn languages? If anything, having a background in Spanish will enhance Middle School or High

I agree 100%.

Sure, start Latin early if you so desire. But you don't have to.

 

My son did Getting Started with Latin in 7th, and that was his first exposure to Latin. We have outsourced Latin 1 this year (8th), and there is plenty of time for him to get through AP Latin.

 

If you do start Latin in 7th or later, just make sure that you have taught enough grammar already. I read about people using Latin to learn grammar through Latin in elementary, but the pace is too fast in high school Latin to be stumbling over the grammar terminology while trying to learn the Latin.

[EKS]

Our Latin tutor has dyslexia. It's certainly been a challenge for her, especially to learn different ways to read and pronounce the words. She has worked hard, and she is only 15, studying both Latin and Greek. It's definitely a love that was encouraged and nurtured from her first Latin tutor and mom.  

 

That's great.  

 

My dyslexic son loves engineering and science and chose not to focus on foreign language.  The path he took was right for him.  

[scbusf]

My kids are going to be learning both Latin and Spanish.  They are learning Spanish at our homeschool co-op and we are going to start Getting Started With Latin next week.

[librarymama]

So many of the reasons already mentioned... I just love Latin. 

 

I have a STEM kid who also happens to love languages, so he is really enjoying Latin. If he enters a science or medical field, as I suspect he will do based on his interests, I hope the Latin vocabulary will help. I feel like he's had better grammar retention with GSWL than he has with anything we did previously. Things are "clicking" for him a bit more. 

 

We will definitely be adding another language, likely Spanish, by middle school.  

[Alice]

I started Latin early without really thinking about it that much. We've really enjoyed it. 

 

Reasons we've stuck with it...

1) It overlaps with a lot of English grammar and vocabulary.

2) Develops great thinking skills. 

3) I can teach Latin vs. a modern foreign language which would be more difficult for me to teach.

4) My oldest really enjoys it. He also loves history and loves the Romans in particular. 

5) Counts as a high school foreign language if we continue it. 

6) It's fun. 

 

I think like a lot of things, it's interesting to try new subjects. You might find you all love Latin and then it becomes worth doing for the same reasons that studying anything you love is worth it. You might decide it's not for you and that's ok. 

[wintermom]

That's great.  

 

My dyslexic son loves engineering and science and chose not to focus on foreign language.  The path he took was right for him.  

 

Glad it's working out for your ds.  I added the details about this girl to provide an example to others that being dyslexic doesn't automatically mean that learning a foreign language (even with a completely different alphabet) is impossible. 

[wintermom]

Thank you all for the input. I can see a lot of benefits in learning Latin, I'm just not sure they are worth giving up Spanish for now. Especially as it seems to me a lot of the benefits (cultural literacy, hard work, logic) can be learned in other subjects. I love the IDEA of Latin, I'm just really unsure how to fit it in. If I go with Latin, I will have to study myself for a few years, then introduce my oldest when he is a bit older. We would work on Latin alone, until he was old enough to add a third language and start Spanish. If I go with Spanish, we will start an immersion preschool 1-2 days a week immediately, and dive in at home as well. 

 

Would Latin give enough of a head start on Spanish that losing all those early years working on Spanish would be worthwhile?

 

 

I agree with the benefits of learning it here, I'm just not sure how valuable Latin is, compared to a living, worldwide language like Spanish. I feel a real loss in my life since I am not fluent in Spanish; I can't say the same about Latin. Is there something you get out of Latin as a language that you wouldn't get out of simply studying history and reading translated texts? 

 

I didn't notice that your son is only 4 (according to your siggy).  The way your OP reads, where you're going heavy on history and science, gives the impression of a much older child. Were I you, without any Spanish background, I'd try to find a playgroup or some place you can bring your son to hear Spanish in action and learn to use it himself. He's going to pick it up quickly at his age with real-life people. You can help out at home with Spanish children's songs, providing DVDs and stuff. 

 

Latin is way down the road for you and him, but definitely keep it on the back-burner.

[EKS]

Glad it's working out for your ds.  I added the details about this girl to provide an example to others that being dyslexic doesn't automatically mean that learning a foreign language (even with a completely different alphabet) is impossible. 

 

Have you worked with dyslexic students before?  It's not that any particular thing is impossible with them, it's a matter of deciding what to put energy into.  

 

My son could have learned Latin--but it would have taken much more effort than it would have for an equally intelligent neurotypical student.  In fact, just about everything (excluding engineering) it seems takes much more effort for him.  But foreign language seemed to take the most effort of all.  So given that he had to spend a significant amount more time and energy than the typical student and that everyone has a finite amount of time and energy, we had to prioritize, and foreign language came out on the bottom.  If he had been interested in it--as apparently was the case with your 15yo tutor--we would have prioritized it higher.

[Reefgazer]

My DD has been learning Latin and French simultaneously for 2 years now; it's not a problem.  Although it does mean double the time on a language.  But you could start Latin off slow, so it doesn't consume tons of time each week.

 

Wait!  I'm editing!  ETA:  It seems from your siggy that your son is 4, right?  In which case, I wouldn't bother with Latin now, either.  Pick up Latin in 3rd-4th grade or so.

 

ETA (Again, LOL!):  I see you've already gotten that advice.

Thank you all for the input. I can see a lot of benefits in learning Latin, I'm just not sure they are worth giving up Spanish for now. Especially as it seems to me a lot of the benefits (cultural literacy, hard work, logic) can be learned in other subjects. I love the IDEA of Latin, I'm just really unsure how to fit it in. If I go with Latin, I will have to study myself for a few years, then introduce my oldest when he is a bit older. We would work on Latin alone, until he was old enough to add a third language and start Spanish. If I go with Spanish, we will start an immersion preschool 1-2 days a week immediately, and dive in at home as well. 

 

Would Latin give enough of a head start on Spanish that losing all those early years working on Spanish would be worthwhile?

 

 

I agree with the benefits of learning it here, I'm just not sure how valuable Latin is, compared to a living, worldwide language like Spanish. I feel a real loss in my life since I am not fluent in Spanish; I can't say the same about Latin. Is there something you get out of Latin as a language that you wouldn't get out of simply studying history and reading translated texts? 

 

[wintermom]

Have you worked with dyslexic students before?  It's not that any particular thing is impossible with them, it's a matter of deciding what to put energy into.  

 

My son could have learned Latin--but it would have taken much more effort than it would have for an equally intelligent neurotypical student.  In fact, just about everything (excluding engineering) it seems takes much more effort for him.  But foreign language seemed to take the most effort of all.  So given that he had to spend a significant amount more time and energy than the typical student and that everyone has a finite amount of time and energy, we had to prioritize, and foreign language came out on the bottom.  If he had been interested in it--as apparently was the case with your 15yo tutor--we would have prioritized it higher.

 

Ok, sorry. I didn't mean to pick on you and your son. We all make choices about where to throw our energies and priorities. As I said, I mentioned this for more than just you and your situation. You did make it sound like the dyslexia was THE reason you didn't want to do a foreign language. I do not know your son, but you do.

[EKS]

You did make it sound like the dyslexia was THE reason you didn't want to do a foreign language. 

 

Well, the dyslexia was at the base of it, so, yes, it was *the* reason.  And it's not that I didn't *want* to do a foreign language--in fact he did two years of high school Latin.  Actually he studied Latin for five years, but only has two years on his transcript because that's how far he got content-wise.

[Targhee]

Why not?

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness, the sequelae into grammar, vocabulary (especially science), logical reasoning, and history are extensive and invaluable. It isn't essential to a solid contemporary education, but it is by most definitions *the* distinguishing characteristic of a truly classical education.

[wintermom]

Why not?

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness, the sequelae into grammar, vocabulary (especially science), logical reasoning, and history are extensive and invaluable. It isn't essential to a solid contemporary education, but it is by most definitions *the* distinguishing characteristic of a truly classical education.

 

I disagree. It's great tool, but I think a classical education is more defined by its broad and varied exposure to different ways of looking at the world, through literature, maths, sciences, philosophy, history, physical form, and the arts. 

[Btervet]

My DD has been learning Latin and French simultaneously for 2 years now; it's not a problem.  Although it does mean double the time on a language.  But you could start Latin off slow, so it doesn't consume tons of time each week.

 

Wait!  I'm editing!  ETA:  It seems from your siggy that your son is 4, right?  In which case, I wouldn't bother with Latin now, either.  Pick up Latin in 3rd-4th grade or so.

 

ETA (Again, LOL!):  I see you've already gotten that advice.

I should clarify I'm not thinking of starting Latin with him any time soon, I'm just trying to look ahead to see if it is worth adding to our curriculum. If I decide it is, I will want to start learning it now, because I feel much more comfortable teaching a subject that I have some knowledge in. Languages are very difficult for me, so I'd like to give myself a few years of study before I wanted DS to jump in. 

 

Why not?

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness, the sequelae into grammar, vocabulary (especially science), logical reasoning, and history are extensive and invaluable. It isn't essential to a solid contemporary education, but it is by most definitions *the* distinguishing characteristic of a truly classical education.

The answer to why not? for me is time and energy. I'd want to learn Latin ahead of him, that takes up my time and mental energy. I'm just trying to discern if it is worth it or not. I guess I don't understand *why* it's the center of a classical education. What unique benefit does it provide? Part of my confusion or hesitation may lie in the fact that I find learning other languages very difficult. So the prospect of learning Latin is daunting; teaching vocabulary, logic, grammar, and history seem easy by comparison. If Latin made Spanish significantly easier, that would be a huge plus, as Spanish is non-negotiable at some point.

[mathnerd]

I should clarify I'm not thinking of starting Latin with him any time soon, I'm just trying to look ahead to see if it is worth adding to our curriculum. If I decide it is, I will want to start learning it now, because I feel much more comfortable teaching a subject that I have some knowledge in. Languages are very difficult for me, so I'd like to give myself a few years of study before I wanted DS to jump in. 

 

The answer to why not? for me is time and energy. I'd want to learn Latin ahead of him, that takes up my time and mental energy. I'm just trying to discern if it is worth it or not. I guess I don't understand *why* it's the center of a classical education. What unique benefit does it provide? Part of my confusion or hesitation may lie in the fact that I find learning other languages very difficult. So the prospect of learning Latin is daunting; teaching vocabulary, logic, grammar, and history seem easy by comparison. If Latin made Spanish significantly easier, that would be a huge plus, as Spanish is non-negotiable at some point.

 

Here is an old thread discussing this same question:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/508740-a-succinct-reason-for-latin/

And here is the other thread that it links to:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/269000-anyone-want-to-discuss-lowes-article-in-the-newest-classical-teacher/

I found these very helpful when I was trying to find out if I should add Latin to our curriculum.

Hope this helps!

 

ETA: I think that this the article the second link talks about, though I am not sure:

http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/apology-latin-and-math

 

[wintermom]

 

The answer to why not? for me is time and energy. I'd want to learn Latin ahead of him, that takes up my time and mental energy. I'm just trying to discern if it is worth it or not. I guess I don't understand *why* it's the center of a classical education. What unique benefit does it provide? Part of my confusion or hesitation may lie in the fact that I find learning other languages very difficult. So the prospect of learning Latin is daunting; teaching vocabulary, logic, grammar, and history seem easy by comparison. If Latin made Spanish significantly easier, that would be a huge plus, as Spanish is non-negotiable at some point.

 

Latin is not the only classical language. Ancient Greek is the other language that is included in the definition of a "classical education." We learn these languages so that we can read and understand the literature, culture and historical context in the original writings of the scholars from Ancient Greece and Rome. To put the importance of languages into perspective, imagine reading a translation of the Declaration of Independence, where you don't know if the nuances, vocabulary and culture of the day is being preserved or even what it is? You would miss out on a whole lot of its meaning and significance in the world. It's an amazing document and worthy of learning it in its original tongue.

 

There may not be any documents you are interested in exploring in its original Greek, or even a pop song in its original French or Spanish, but you miss out on a lot of meaning and context when you settle for a translation.

[Miss Tick]

I just reread 8's thread discussing Latin with Ester María, lots there to consider.

 

One practical point, rarely discussed, is that there are a number of Latin programs written for upper elementary or middle school age which actively discuss grammar topics, and this is more difficult to find for other modern languages, unless you yourself are fluent in the target language. Granted, my experience is limited, but while I could find a number of Latin programs that start off discussing nouns (and articles), then verbs with conjugation right up front the same has not been true for Spanish. The Spanish programs I've looked at start with colors, numbers, and conversational phrases, and many of those programs end before grammar ever becomes a focus. Great if you are trying to incorporate early conversation in the language, but far from focusing on grammar or logical thinking that seems to generally be considered the advantage of learning a new language.

 

This seems to be often overlooked in the "Why Latin?" or "Why <any foreign language>?" questions.

 

I have a limited Spanish background, so with my kids we started with Spanish precisely because I could make the study conversational. Now, as we are adding in Latin and setting it side-by-side with the Spanish and English grammar they already know, I can see their understanding of grammar AND their understanding of the usefulness of foreign languages grow. Spanish is no longer just a language for telling people your name, and Latin can be more than sailors and boats.

[Targhee]

I disagree. It's great tool, but I think a classical education is more defined by its broad and varied exposure to different ways of looking at the world, through literature, maths, sciences, philosophy, history, physical form, and the arts.

There was a recent long thread about what is classical education (the thread involved Scholè Sisters, CM, etc). Anyway, there is more than one definition, and therefore we really can't say such and such IS classical while this and that are not - so I concede that and your point. But I will argue that Latin (and also Greek) were integral to a Classical Education for roughly 2000 years. I do not believe they are integral to a modern education, but I think the benefits I mentioned before exceed the cost in efforts/time to learn it.

 

Back to the original poster's question, read Climbing Parnasus for a thorough tretise on Why Latin. The Latin Centered Curriculum has a briefer argument. And Memoria press has published many articles in their catalog on the topic.

 

As to time and learning ahead of your child, there are a number of solid Latin programs requiring no Latin experience from the teacher, and several online series which require no effort on the part of the parent. If you do want to learn ahead, Getting Started with Latin was my foot in the door, and is what I used to introduce my children. The lessons are very short and each covers a single new vocabulary word or concept. And the book is only around $20.

 

Best wishes with whatever you do!

[EndOfOrdinary]

Our library has Getting Started with Latin.  You could check.  It would be as small an investment as possible for a good idea of what is possible.

[momacacia]

I love etymology and languages in general. Also why I'm (making them) exposing them to some Hebrew just for fun. Teaching out of my passions. Maybe one of them will get it.

[happypamama]

We love GSWL and Latin in languages in general.  I think it's helpful with vocabulary and grammar and such.

 

But like my children get more from their martial arts class than merely self defense skills, they're getting more from Latin than strictly language skills.  It's a fun way to exercise their brains.  It's a bonding tool for us because we do it orally, each child at his/her level, one-on-one with me.  It's teaching perseverance and the skill of breaking things down into manageable steps.  It's teaching them logic and organization; when DD first started Latin, I saw the organizational skills spilling over into her math, for instance.  I was slightly intimidated about teaching Latin, because although I do well with learning languages, I had never studied Latin at all.  Now I can't imagine schooling without it.

[wintermom]

There was a recent long thread about what is classical education (the thread involved Scholè Sisters, CM, etc). Anyway, there is more than one definition, and therefore we really can't say such and such IS classical while this and that are not - so I concede that and your point. But I will argue that Latin (and also Greek) were integral to a Classical Education for roughly 2000 years. I do not believe they are integral to a modern education, but I think the benefits I mentioned before exceed the cost in efforts/time to learn it.

 

Wouldn't make our lives easier if there was one clear definition - at least on these forums - of "classical education."  ;)  It gets confusing discussing it, as we could well be talking about completely different things.

 

I believe that we are on the same page regarding the importance of Latin and ancient Greek in at least one definitely of a "classical education." I think that these languages seem to be included in many people's classical education primarily for their grammar rules and vocabulary content (i.e., to fulfill a second language requirement). I believe that they have a richer and more far-reaching value than this, and that this is why they should be included. The study of Latin in isolation is probably why people have a really hard time recognizing its value in their children's education.

[wintermom]

One practical point, rarely discussed, is that there are a number of Latin programs written for upper elementary or middle school age which actively discuss grammar topics, and this is more difficult to find for other modern languages, unless you yourself are fluent in the target language. Granted, my experience is limited, but while I could find a number of Latin programs that start off discussing nouns (and articles), then verbs with conjugation right up front the same has not been true for Spanish. The Spanish programs I've looked at start with colors, numbers, and conversational phrases, and many of those programs end before grammar ever becomes a focus. Great if you are trying to incorporate early conversation in the language, but far from focusing on grammar or logical thinking that seems to generally be considered the advantage of learning a new language.

 

This seems to be often overlooked in the "Why Latin?" or "Why <any foreign language>?" questions.

 

I have a limited Spanish background, so with my kids we started with Spanish precisely because I could make the study conversational. Now, as we are adding in Latin and setting it side-by-side with the Spanish and English grammar they already know, I can see their understanding of grammar AND their understanding of the usefulness of foreign languages grow. Spanish is no longer just a language for telling people your name, and Latin can be more than sailors and boats.

 

I think it comes down to the purpose of studying the language. Most people study modern languages so that they can communicate with others, both verbally and written. They seek to be able to speak, write, listen and read the language with others - if not today then hopefully in the future when they come into contact face to face with a person who knows that language. In this case, conjugating verbs isn't the most useful thing to learn first. Vocabulary is more important, then getting a sense of how the vocabulary fits into a conversation. Native speakers don't conjugate verbs or think about whether a noun is feminine or masculine in their head really quickly before speaking, they say what sounds right, what they've heard other people say. 

 

It's only when the written language takes priority that learning grammar, verb conjugations, proper tense use, etc. become really important. And for elementary-aged children, this is very difficult. It's a great way to turn-off young learners to the joy of a second language before they even get started.

[Critterfixer]

I started Latin with my two in third grade. I did not study ahead. I learned it right along with them. They learned faster and better than I did, but I can keep up.

We are in First Form this year, and I'm still learning right along with them. I've not made a huge effort to get ahead. There is something about all three of us sitting around the table, watching DVD's together, and working through the exercises side by side, racing each other in recitation, going over grammar and vocabulary together that is priceless right now. 

I guess that is another plus for Latin for us. 

[RootAnn]

Ashleysf in Post #35 linked some discussions/articles. I'd encourage you to read some of the Memoria Press articles - some previously linked, some not. (10 Reasons to Study Latin, An Apologia for Latin & Math, Latin as an Ordering Principle, How Can I Teach Latin if I Don't Know It Myself?, Why Latin Again?, etc.)

 

I will echo several posters on here who say:

1) Go ahead & start with Spanish when she's young

2) Add Latin in middle school or early high school

3) You don't have to start now. The previously linked Getting Started with Latin is excellent as a beginning place for you and/or your child. You don't have to stay ahead - you can be a year ahead, you can either learn alongside, or outsource, depending on your preference.

 

My dd#1 is studying Spanish & Latin. My dd#2 doesn't have the some language love that dd#1 currently has & she has a lot of other things she needs to work on. (See the "where do you want to put in the effort" posts on here - I could echo Btervet's posts - although for different reasons.) So, she might not do two languages. Dd#3 will probably do both. Too early to tell on the boys.

 

Honestly, while I admire your "thinking ahead," it doesn't have to be something you decide now. I've been amazed at how much French I've remembered as dd#1 has been studying Spanish. My understanding of English grammar was transformed by my study of French. I want my kids to have that and more.

[Miss Tick]

I think it comes down to the purpose of studying the language. Most people study modern languages so that they can communicate with others, both verbally and written. They seek to be able to speak, write, listen and read the language with others - if not today then hopefully in the future when they come into contact face to face with a person who knows that language. In this case, conjugating verbs isn't the most useful thing to learn first. Vocabulary is more important, then getting a sense of how the vocabulary fits into a conversation. Native speakers don't conjugate verbs or think about whether a noun is feminine or masculine in their head really quickly before speaking, they say what sounds right, what they've heard other people say.

 

It's only when the written language takes priority that learning grammar, verb conjugations, proper tense use, etc. become really important. And for elementary-aged children, this is very difficult. It's a great way to turn-off young learners to the joy of a second language before they even get started.

Conversation is not the number one reason people list for studying Latin, though. The OP asked Why Latin? and the reasons often stated for that are vocabulary, grammar, and logical thinking. It seems as though you could get those benefits from any foreign language study, EXCEPT Latin is the one where curricula focus on those aspects. For any other language you need to be fluent in the language or use higher-level, less accessible texts.

[wintermom]

Conversation is not the number one reason people list for studying Latin, though. The OP asked Why Latin? and the reasons often stated for that are vocabulary, grammar, and logical thinking. It seems as though you could get those benefits from any foreign language study, EXCEPT Latin is the one where curricula focus on those aspects. For any other language you need to be fluent in the language or use higher-level, less accessible texts.

 

I wasn't referring to Latin in the post you quoted. I was referring to your comment specifically about modern languages and the curriculum available. Most people do study these for the conversation aspect. I believe that this is why the modern languages for younger students don't focus first on grammar. If you want to do grammar with your kids, then look at programs for high school students and adults. You'll find lots there.

[Btervet]

Conversation is not the number one reason people list for studying Latin, though. The OP asked Why Latin? and the reasons often stated for that are vocabulary, grammar, and logical thinking. It seems as though you could get those benefits from any foreign language study, EXCEPT Latin is the one where curricula focus on those aspects. For any other language you need to be fluent in the language or use higher-level, less accessible texts.

 

This makes a lot of sense to me, and may be a tipping point for me to consider Latin. I know I struggle with foreign languages, so if I can get the benefits you listed at a more accessible level, that's a huge bonus.

 

I want to thank everyone for their input. I'm reading a lot of the links posted above, still not positive of what we will do, but I'm glad to have some more ideas to sift through.

[PeacefulChaos]

I'm sure lots have people have given you all the reasons to teach Latin.   :)

 

I just want to throw out there that Link hates Latin.  This is my kid who loves school.  Seriously.  But Latin?  Ugh.   :lol:

We did Prima Latina when he was in 3rd grade and we both disliked it.  Switched over and did Latin For Children Primer A for 4th grade, and he begrudgingly made it about halfway through the book.  We've made a deal that he has to finish the second half, and then he never has to do Latin again.  

He's planning on finishing it 1st semester so he can move onto Japanese 2nd semester.  

 

Anyway, I just wanted to share our experience.  By all means try it - but if you hate it, if your kid hates it, don't worry about it.  

Some people probably feel differently, but I'm not going to make Latin a hill to die on :lol: .... 

 

ETA: I originally planned on doing Latin as outlined in TWTM - through at least the freshman year of high school.  I do still plan on Latin for the other two, trying it for a year or two at least.  You never know what will happen, kwim?  I have lists of subjects and curriculum up through all of my kids' school years - yes, including my now-kindergartener's senior year.  :lol:  Obviously everything evolves and changes with time.