Need advice on how much advice to give re: college admissions

[Hoggirl]

I have a friend who recently posted a photo on Facebook of her ds holding his MIT application which he had received in the mail. He had a big grin on his face, and her caption read, "This is the one he has been waiting for! Boy better get some scholarships!" I think many people thought it was an acceptance and started offering congrats, etc. She then clarified in a comment that it was only the application for applying but how exciting it was to be "singled out." :/

 

I did some PM-ing with her, and while I do think she understands his chances of admission are a long-shot, she seems to be ill-informed about many things. I pointed out that there were no merit-based scholarships at MIT (I have NO idea if they would qualify for need or not, but I also directed her to NPCs) and also sent a link to the CDS showing the middle 50 percent of ACT scores at MIT are 33 - 35. Additionally, I made some suggestions about loving thy safety, etc. My husband says I have already said too much, that she is clearly not interested in what I have to say. Her ds is an unhooked white guy with a 30 on the ACT.

 

I am encountering this sort of denial more and more. She did not ask my advice, so I probably shouldn't have started PM-ing her. However, I have had many other people directly seek out my advice re: college admissions since we went through the process last year. There is so much misinformation out there! What do you do when people seek out your advice, but really don't want to hear that their child is not the "snowflake" they perceive him or her to be?? And that many qualified applicants get rejected?? I do realize it's one thing to give unsolicited advice, but it's quite another when asked and then dismissed because people are in denial.

 

I'm not sure I have a question - maybe I should just keep my mouth shut when not asked and play dumb when I am.

 

ETA: I had asked a couple of days ago if her ds had taken subject tests (MIT requires two - a math and a science). I just went over to FB after posting here, and she had PM'd back, "Ack! No! Thanks for the heads-up!"

[8filltheheart]

I think MIT probably confuses people b/c they have a website about scholarships and grants, and if you don't actually read the page, you don't realize that the scholarships are really just need-based grants.

 

I can't answer your question directly about questions regarding college admissions, but I can tell you the stance I have decided to take in regards to homeschooling advice.   Recently I have spent literally hours with different people seeking my help in terms of how to fix problems that they wanted to address in their homeschool.  I have decided I am not willing to do it any more.   Every single one of them while here told me what they saw as the problems and what they wanted to do to address the problems.   Each one of them left with a plan of action, and every single one of them ultimately did not change anything and went back to exactly the same curriculum/pattern that had caused them to seek me out in the first place.   

 

Like you, it would be one thing if I had offered help unsolicited.   But, they came to me (individually) and I worked with them at great inconvenience to me and my family (individually) for long periods of time.   When push came to shove, the reality is that the real problem wasn't addressed (the willingness of the teacher to be responsible for teaching or grading or making sure work was actually being completed with higher priority than activities, etc......different issues for different people.)   I have decided my approach now will be to simply send a list of suggestions via email and I'm done. 

 

ETA:  Basically, give a simple reply and don't waste your time.  :P

[Kathy in Richmond]

I have a friend who recently posted a photo on Facebook of her ds holding his MIT application which he had received in the mail. He had a big grin on his face, and her caption read, "This is the one he has been waiting for! Boy better get some scholarships!" I think many people thought it was an acceptance and started offering congrats, etc. She then clarified in a comment that it was only the application for applying but how exciting it was to be "singled out." :/

 

I did some PM-ing with her, and while I do think she understands his chances of admission are a long-shot, she seems to be ill-informed about many things. I pointed out that there were no merit-based scholarships at MIT (I have NO idea if they would qualify for need or not, but I also directed her to NPCs) and also sent a link to the CDS showing the middle 50 percent of ACT scores at MIT are 33 - 35. Additionally, I made some suggestions about loving thy safety, etc. My husband says I have already said too much, that she is clearly not interested in what I have to say. Her ds is an unhooked white guy with a 30 on the ACT.

 

I am encountering this sort of denial more and more. She did not ask my advice, so I probably shouldn't have started PM-ing her. However, I have had many other people directly seek out my advice re: college admissions since we went through the process last year. There is so much misinformation out there! What do you do when people seek out your advice, but really don't want to hear that their child is not the "snowflake" they perceive him or her to be?? And that many qualified applicants get rejected?? I do realize it's one thing to give unsolicited advice, but it's quite another when asked and then dismissed because people are in denial.

 

I'm not sure I have a question - maybe I should just keep my mouth shut when not asked and play dumb when I am.

 

ETA: I had asked a couple of days ago if her ds had taken subject tests (MIT requires two - a math and a science). I just went over to FB after posting here, and she had PM'd back, "Ack! No! Thanks for the heads-up!"

 

Ack indeed!

 

Sounds like you've done enough, Cynthia. Either she'll spend some time with the Common Data Set and Net Price Calculator or not. The only other thing you might suggest is that she take a look at the MIT admissions website, especially the blogs. They're pretty straightforward & honest about the realities of the admissions process there.

[Hoggirl]

When I am asked for advice for snowflakes, I am noncommittal and stress that there is a college for everyone, and I hope their search works out

Last years flake knew I was an engineer and kept telling me that his kid was going to make it in to Rice, despite not taki ng the highest level of math and science courses offered in his high school. Dad believed he would stand out due to the cleanups of a forest in the neighborhood that he had son organize. Kid is at a regional state U, no merit money, and not admitted into any dept.

This year 1 flake's parent believes her child who can keep a beat and memorize lyrics, but cannot sing at the middle school level or play a major scale on any instrument from memory will be transferring to Julliard if his rock band ascendency while taking classes at the CC plans dont work out.

Flake 2 has been investing in glider lessons. This is to compensate for the 520 sat math score and make student attractive to an AE dept. at a state school.

It seems to be Cargo Cult live.

ROFLOL! Your "snowflakes" are "flakier" than mine!!

 

I appreciate the advice from all. I just "care" more than I should. This is a nice young man who grew up in church with my son. I hate to see him get so stoked up for something that is unlikely to happen. What I hate even more is that parents perpetuate these issues. I am all about being cautiously optimistic as well as realistic. We definitely assumed the answers were going to be "no's." I think that is the safer and kinder way to be, but that's just my opinion.

 

I'll quit fretting about it - I can't change the outcome anyway.

[MysteryJen]

Shudder....giving homeschooling advice. I say nothing. Smile and nod. Smile and nod. If pressed, I refer them to the boards.

 

I have learned the hard way, that any opinion of mine, even if expressed mildly and politely will be seen as criticism eventually. Especially, if I am the first person to say it. So, I say nothing and go about my business. The world will sort out everyone in their own way.

[idnib]

It seems to be Cargo Cult live.

 

Had to look up what "cargo cult" meant. It's my new favorite phrase!

[hillfarm]

I take the onion approach - I give advice in layers! :) I have my general inquiry info that I share readily with anyone who asks. (Check for the admissions department of X College online, that should tell you their application requirements and deadlines.) If they check that out and get back to me or if they have already done that and are interested in more specific info, I will share at that level. However, I don't get specific unless it is a very close friend who is looking more for a sounding board than a "how to get my kid into college" tutor.

 

I would never take it upon myself to evaluate someone else's kid. I feel that there is no way I want to be responsible for telling someone that their darling will either make it or not make it. They should have the best handle on that, not me. I don't get paid enough (actually, nothing) to be the one to burst their bubble. Let them get mad at the admissions committee somewhere, not at me, for being the one to point out that they have done none of the required record keeping and little of the academics to get their kid into the first, second, third choice, or last-ditch safety schools.

 

I usually refer to people who casually expect me to fill in them in on the results of all of my hours of research and consideration as energy vampires. I do all the work and then they want to suck me dry of information without lifting a finger. And they don't want me to be too long winded, perhaps I could email them a summary of my findings....?

 

I have not experienced this so much regarding a 4-year school, but definitely have experienced it with regards to the local PSEO/CC program. My general response is a pleasant smile and "I discovered that it will vary with each student. I suggest you contact the guidance counselor at X High School or the admissions office at the cc for information specific for your dc. Good luck!"

[Sunshine State Sue]

IETA:  Basically, give a simple reply and don't waste your time.   :p

 

This discussion reminds me of the early years and all the moms I talked to who "homeschooled" their dc until K.  :001_rolleyes:

[Teachin'Mine]

College Confidential is usually an eye-opener for many.   I found it downright scary at first.  lol  When it comes to advice, what bothers me is when the parents prefer to stay in the dark and their student misses out on great opportunities. 

[creekland]

I tread carefully.  Many kids at school have unrealistic beliefs and I'm sure a bit of that comes from their parents too.  I try to stick to advising them to have safeties they like and I tend to show them how many are rejected at schools with low acceptance rates (30% acceptance means 7 out of 10 who apply are rejected or waitlisted).  I encourage them to look up median test scores (sometimes doing this with them if we have access to a computer), npcs, and point some to college confidential if the colleges they like are common on there.

 

With parents I tend to sound them out carefully with basic questions to see how open they are to learning vs how much they just want to say things.  If the latter, I just let them talk and smile & nod.  When they talk about their darling getting full scholarships at places that don't have them, I will tell others with us (later) what the difference between need based aid and merit aid are IF it could make a difference to them.  If not, I let it go.

 

I suspect you've done plenty with your friend - unless she asks you for more with an open mind.  There really is only so much that you can do.  With closed minds, it's very little.

[Jen500]

College Confidential is usually an eye-opener for many.   I found it downright scary at first.  lol  When it comes to advice, what bothers me is when the parents prefer to stay in the dark and their student misses out on great opportunities. 

 

At what point in high school would you recommend College Confidential? Is 9th grade too early? Or is that too late... :lol:

[Matryoshka]

At what point in high school would you recommend College Confidential? Is 9th grade too early? Or is that too late... :lol:

I was just wondering the same thing... Although my oldest have just started 11th, so it's probably past time I put on my big girl panties and headed over there... I'm a bit scared after all I've heard about it here!

[creekland]

At what point in high school would you recommend College Confidential? Is 9th grade too early? Or is that too late... :lol:

 

Oh, way, way too late!  I can't believe you even asked such a question!   :lol:

 

FWIW, most seniors at the ps where I work are just now beginning to seriously think about colleges and apps.  Some are ahead of the game and some will start the game in March or April wondering what happened!

 

And FWIW, I recommend starting to look more seriously at schools junior year - earlier for those of us who are guidance counselors and need to ensure our kids have proper tests and courses to be competitive for admissions, but that's mainly BECAUSE we are guidance counselors.

At what point in high school would you recommend College Confidential? Is 9th grade too early? Or is that too late... :lol:

 

FYI, the urban dictionary's definition of College Confidential is good for a laugh.

[8filltheheart]

At what point in high school would you recommend College Confidential? Is 9th grade too early? Or is that too late... :lol:

 

My honest answer is that it depends on your student's college objectives.   If your student wants to attend a top highly selective/competitive school, I would say 10th grade is not too early.   As guidance counselor, you need to understand FAFSA, CSS, and should run net price calculators to understand feasibility.   You need to help your child understand just what it takes to be competitive and open up their eyes to the top talent out there that they are competing against so that they can be realistic.  

 

If your student is not aiming for the tippy top schools, it is not as vital to know the competition.  ;)   NPC and FAFSA are still important.   Investigating schools' opportunities outside of just general info, CC is a good place to ask questions.  

[Tokyomarie]

I have a friend who recently posted a photo on Facebook of her ds holding his MIT application which he had received in the mail. He had a big grin on his face, and her caption read, "This is the one he has been waiting for! Boy better get some scholarships!" I think many people thought it was an acceptance and started offering congrats, etc. She then clarified in a comment that it was only the application for applying but how exciting it was to be "singled out." :/

 

My son got "singled out" to receive an MIT application last year. But that was only because when he took the state-mandated ACT he had no idea which colleges he was interested in so he put MIT as one of the few names he knew. :001_rolleyes: His ACT score, though decent, was nowhere near MIT's range. He had fun looking at the brochure, though. At least I was able to use the brochure as a starting point to help him finally start learning how to look at college information. Before that he wasn't really interested.

 

[Teachin'Mine]

At what point in high school would you recommend College Confidential? Is 9th grade too early? Or is that too late... :lol:

 

Somewhere after reading The Little Engine That Could but well before reading the second rejection letter in March out of the two applications that were sent. 

 

Ninth might be too early for the student to read, but about the right time for the parent to start reading.  Some of it has to taken with a grain of salt, but there is some very good information there.  Better to go into the process with your eyes open than be shocked by the results due to ignorance.

 

Did you want my advice or should I just nod and smile and pass the bean dip?   lol

[Teachin'Mine]

I was just wondering the same thing... Although my oldest have just started 11th, so it's probably past time I put on my big girl panties and headed over there... I'm a bit scared after all I've heard about it here!

 

That fear is well founded.  Skip the big girl panties and grab some chocolate instead!   Now is a great time to get info and help your 11th grader to think in terms of some colleges.  I would recommend college visits in 11th if you can because as busy as 11th is, 12th is even moreso.  Better to have some ideas before the student sits down to do applications and essays. 

[Jen500]

Somewhere after reading The Little Engine That Could but well before reading the second rejection letter in March out of the two applications that were sent. 

 

Ninth might be too early for the student to read, but about the right time for the parent to start reading.  Some of it has to taken with a grain of salt, but there is some very good information there.  Better to go into the process with your eyes open than be shocked by the results due to ignorance.

 

Did you want my advice or should I just nod and smile and pass the bean dip?   lol

 

No bean dip for me, thank you…I want to be prepared. At least as much as I can. :) My oldest are freshmen this year and have lofty aspirations , so I guess I will check out CC. 

Last year I did read What High School Don't Tell You.  I got some good ideas but I thought a lot of the specific advice was much more than we can manage $$$$$.

[regentrude]

At what point in high school would you recommend College Confidential? Is 9th grade too early? Or is that too late... :lol:

 

For some students and parents, I would NEVER recommend College Confidential. While there may be a lot of good information, it is frequented by hypercompetetive students who convey the feeling that their lives will end if they don't get admitted to an Ivy.

For me, College Confidential was very disconcerting and creating way too much hysteric pressure. DD perused the site repeatedly and always reported that it made her feel awful and lacking.

I would not recommend CC for  a sensitive student, a student who second guesses herself, or one who is not perfectly confident in her abilities.

 

I found the advice on this board here very valuable and greatly prefer the atmosphere that is always tempered with realistic perspectives. I don't need a board that makes my high achieving student doubt her abilities or make me second guess my schooling decisions.

 

ETA: It is perfectly possible to glean all necessary information about admission to a highly selective school from other sources. CC is not the only place. I learned almost all I needed on this board.

 

and 2nd ETA: The above is not sour grapes talking. My kids did get into two highly selective schools, one of them an Ivy.

[Matryoshka]

ETA: It is perfectly possible to glean all necessary information about admission to a highly selective school from other sources. CC is not the only place. I learned almost all I needed on this board.

 

 

See, this has been my secret hope - that I can just hang out here and glean the important info distilled and refined without the hysteria and hyper competitiveness from the boardies that have braved those waters ...  :001_cool:   Sounds like you might need a deep-water diving suit to survive all the pressure over there...

[Hoggirl]

I agree with Regentrude about CC. My ds did not spend much time there. I think there are many more parents on there than kids anyway. For them, I think it is probably fine. While there is a lot of cr@p to weed through, there are some very helpful adult posters on there. But I found this board MUCH more supportive of an environment overall and much more respectful. I learned all I needed to know from people here. CC is definitely not necessary, and it is easy to get sucked into the drama. I did post some, but I primarily lurked. One can always try it out. But drop it if it isn't your cuppa.

[readinmom]

Sorry, I'm just stuck on the fact that her kid is on Facebook with an "application".   I would ride this one out and just respond as helpfully as you can.  Eventually she will have to deal with the reality of the college admissions process.  

 

FWIW, College Confidential was very helpful when figuring out stuff as ds was entering high school.  The schools he was interested in changed every year, but he was always realistic about his chances.  CC was a good guide, but not a substitute for preparing yourself.  

[Pawz4me]

I'm not a fan of CC, either.  Except maybe for the parent board.  But that would only be if one doesn't have any better resources.  And IMO this board is an exponentially better resource.

[8filltheheart]

I wouldn't recommend CC for most students, definitely not mine anyway! But, I did learn a lot from CC that I had missed on my own.

 

Ds picked up at least 1 major university scholarship and got into the dorm he wanted and picked out good roommates bc of CC, (I learned on CC that kids looking for roommates had started their own Facebook page. I also learned about how dorm selection took place and that one incredibly helpful info bc it was unlike anything I had ever seen before.)

 

Check out university specific boards. The info is not always accurate, but it can be helpful. (Like some posters on CC insist certain schools only admit if you interview and visit the school (demonstrating interest.) We know it is inaccurate for at least one of the "prevailing wisdom" schools bc ds was awarded on of their top,scholarships and all he did was quickly fill out the application and nothing else bc he wasn't really sure he was interested.)

 

Another good source of info is the hs2coll yahoo loop.

[creekland]

For some students and parents, I would NEVER recommend College Confidential. While there may be a lot of good information, it is frequented by hypercompetetive students who convey the feeling that their lives will end if they don't get admitted to an Ivy.

 

 

I was about to say the same thing... there are more I DON'T recommend cc to than those I do, and my kids were seldom on the site to be honest.  I hang out there (same screen name as here) as I like gleaning info that I might be able to use for future students with questions and I like to occasionally assist students or parents on there.

 

But there are "favorite schools" on cc.  If a student is interested in one of these, cc can be a super wealth of info.  But to limit oneself to these schools is often not the best idea.  Other schools can be a best choice or at least worth an app.

 

I hardly found any info at all regarding my oldest's school on there and there's very little info about any Christian school along with plenty who will quite impolitely diss any Christian school.

 

Middle's school is one of the favorites on there - not "the" favorite, but one can get a good bit of info.  Finding it worked for him.  He loves it there.

 

Youngest's school is not one of the favorites, but nonetheless I found it (name) via a post I put on there, then did a bit of my own research elsewhere.  One absolute plus... there is this one super connection (parent of grads) to his school who gave me a bit of info on the school AND via networking is how my guy is already happily working in a lab there.  Without networking, I'm not sure he'd have stood out enough to be so fortunate as an incoming freshman.  I'm really, really thankful for that cc connection even though a good part of it was via pm.

 

College Confidential has its value IMO, but it has its issues too.  The Hive is where I share more, esp outside actual schools/academics, but cc has been worth a positive plug (with cautions) to me.

 

And again, my students were/are rarely on there.  I have the thick skin and mental experience to read, discern, keep, and chuck the various info I see.

[regentrude]

Ds picked up at least 1 major university scholarship and got into the dorm he wanted and picked out good roommates bc of CC, (I learned on CC that kids looking for roommates had started their own Facebook page. I also learned about how dorm selection took place and that one incredibly helpful info bc it was unlike anything I had ever seen before.)

 

 

DD's college set up a facebook group for the admitted students. That was where she could get all this school specific information (and correct info, since they had a moderator from the school.) Very helpful.

[Teachin'Mine]

Dd had no spare time to spend on CC either.  lol  I did point out some threads that I thought would be of interest to her, usually ones which supported whatever it was that I was trying to convince her was important to do at the time.   Sometimes she'd even glance at them. lol  But she did quite a bit of her own researching once she had her acceptances since then it was more pertinent.  She was never interested in "falling in love" with a school not knowing if she'd even be accepted.

 

Creekland I'm sure you know the section of CC well, but just want to mention for others' benefit that there is a Christian Colleges section under College Search & Selection.  There are definitely CC favorites and it is much harder to get info on less popular options.

[Jen500]

I agree with Regentrude about CC. My ds did not spend much time there. I think there are many more parents on there than kids anyway. For them, I think it is probably fine. While there is a lot of cr@p to weed through, there are some very helpful adult posters on there. But I found this board MUCH more supportive of an environment overall and much more respectful. I learned all I needed to know from people here. CC is definitely not necessary, and it is easy to get sucked into the drama. I did post some, but I primarily lurked. One can always try it out. But drop it if it isn't your cuppa.

 

I'm always grateful that many of you are willing to share and offer advice…even after your kids have gone off to college. (And after all the years on the board I am always happy to hear about what your kids are doing after high school!)

[Pawz4me]

I wouldn't recommend CC for most students, definitely not mine anyway! But, I did learn a lot from CC that I had missed on my own.

 

Ds picked up at least 1 major university scholarship and got into the dorm he wanted and picked out good roommates bc of CC, (I learned on CC that kids looking for roommates had started their own Facebook page. I also learned about how dorm selection took place and that one incredibly helpful info bc it was unlike anything I had ever seen before.)

 

Check out university specific boards. The info is not always accurate, but it can be helpful. (Like some posters on CC insist certain schools only admit if you interview and visit the school (demonstrating interest.) We know it is inaccurate for at least one of the "prevailing wisdom" schools bc ds was awarded on of their top,scholarships and all he did was quickly fill out the application and nothing else bc he wasn't really sure he was interested.)

 

Another good source of info is the hs2coll yahoo loop.

 

 

:iagree:

I came back to add the bolded to my post, and I saw you'd already recommended it.  I agree -- a very good source of information, and IMO much better than CC.

[8filltheheart]

DD's college set up a facebook group for the admitted students. That was where she could get all this school specific information (and correct info, since they had a moderator from the school.) Very helpful.

Some of the pages on CC do have college reps responding to posts. I know that housing questions get answered specifically by the housing dept on ds's university's CC page.

 

While there are lots of posts that are just opinion, sifting through can give a lot of great info (sort of like on here ;) ) Ds received $2500 extra/yr b/c of reading CC b/c of a scholarship we had initially missed.

 

It isn't something needed by everyone, but weeding through it might be helpful.

[Laura Corin]

DD's college set up a facebook group for the admitted students. That was where she could get all this school specific information (and correct info, since they had a moderator from the school.) Very helpful.

 

Calvin's college has one too - C has found out lots of useful information there.

 

L

[G5052]

I am encountering this sort of denial more and more. She did not ask my advice, so I probably shouldn't have started PM-ing her. However, I have had many other people directly seek out my advice re: college admissions since we went through the process last year. There is so much misinformation out there! What do you do when people seek out your advice, but really don't want to hear that their child is not the "snowflake" they perceive him or her to be?? And that many qualified applicants get rejected?? I do realize it's one thing to give unsolicited advice, but it's quite another when asked and then dismissed because people are in denial.

 

I'm not sure I have a question - maybe I should just keep my mouth shut when not asked and play dumb when I am.

 

That's what I do.  I'm a college professor at two community colleges and know a lot about the schools we feed into in terms of admissions and scholarships because I try to be informed for my students that ask.  Naturally I encourage them to contact the schools directly, but I know the basics and can give them a general idea.  I've talked with the community college advisors about the transfer process, and I've gone to the college fairs and asked the pointed questions, even the ones that make the reps pause.  One commented that I asked questions that she's only asked a few times a year in all of the college fairs she goes to.  It's important to me that I know.

 

I don't give advice to parents unless they ask.  I have friends who are pursuing unreasonable paths with their seniors right now, but I keep my mouth shut.  They've been on the websites, gone on the tours, and have talked to the local high school guidance counsellors if they're involved in a public or private school.  But the picture they have is rosier than the one that I've gotten in my investigations. Sometimes they get very emotionally involved in their choices too, which is not the time for me to say, "You know, I asked the rep from X about merit aid. They said that they only give merit aid to people at the National Merit Semi-Finalist level, and primarily based on scores and the courses taken, not community service and sports."

 

And who knows, maybe I'm wrong in some aspects.   

[Starr]

It amazes me what people don't want to know.  I wish someone had handheld me through the process. 

[creekland]

It amazes me what people don't want to know.  I wish someone had handheld me through the process. 

 

This always amazes me too.  I'm the type of person who wants to know as much as possible, not just rose colored (potentially incorrect) answers.

 

And I'll add my "yes" to college class FB pages.  Once accepted, my guy learned quite a bit from some of them, and now that he's an "expert" (and RA), he's one of the "officials" who answered questions for his school this year.

 

But these aren't terrific ways to find schools or (most) scholarships as they come too late in the process for that.

[chiguirre]

For some students and parents, I would NEVER recommend College Confidential. While there may be a lot of good information, it is frequented by hypercompetetive students who convey the feeling that their lives will end if they don't get admitted to an Ivy.

For me, College Confidential was very disconcerting and creating way too much hysteric pressure. DD perused the site repeatedly and always reported that it made her feel awful and lacking.

 

Seriously, I checked out Penn's page and it made me feel awful and lacking and I graduated from Wharton. I think some posters are there just to troll. There are some chance mes that are either superhuman or are trying to scare off other applicants. However, I think Penn might be a "hot" school now so it's probably not a fair representation of what CC has to offer for more normal schools. I'd definitely take CC with a shaker full of salt.

 

[MBM]

At what point in high school would you recommend College Confidential? Is 9th grade too early? Or is that too late... :lol:

 

Recommend College Confidential? Possibly never. (just kidding)

 

College Confidential can have some decent information but it is not always accurate.  The "Chance Me" forum is often full of misinformation. My son's high school is visited by about 500 admissions people from different universities and colleges and at every discussion we've attended as a family, all of the admissions people have said not to take the chance-me advice seriously. My favorites are the ones where two prospective applicants chance each other. The conversations go something like this:

 

Prospective Applicant #1: Hey, if you'll chance me, I'll chance you!

 

Prospective Applicant #2: Wow, really? Okay!

 

(They both look everything over.)

 

Prospective Applicant #1: You look great! I'm sure you'll get in.

 

Prospective Applicant #2: You look great, too -- love those ECs -- I'm sure you'll also get in!

 

Hooray! Besties Forever!   :cheers2: 

 

 

All kidding aside, my son did find three people there who gave him good, specific info about a program he is interested in, but even so, we verified everything. The info was good, though. You just have to separate the good advice from the not-so-good advice.

 

Around 9th or 10th is a good time to check out what universities require. Just gather information. Besides reputable websites, either buy or look at a college guide, something like the Fiske guide. Find out: Does the school want the SAT/ACT with writing? SAT Subject Tests? You can take those as early as freshman year. A full year of art or music? A few like University of California schools and most of the public Ohio schools want a full year of the same art/music course -- and they don't accept everything. Better to know sooner than later. How many years of a foreign language and how many years for other subjects? That is info you can gather early.

 

In the meantime, help your student explore and develop genuine interests and talents. There is no need to do everything.

[TranquilMind]

I have a friend who recently posted a photo on Facebook of her ds holding his MIT application which he had received in the mail. He had a big grin on his face, and her caption read, "This is the one he has been waiting for! Boy better get some scholarships!" I think many people thought it was an acceptance and started offering congrats, etc. She then clarified in a comment that it was only the application for applying but how exciting it was to be "singled out." :/

 

I did some PM-ing with her, and while I do think she understands his chances of admission are a long-shot, she seems to be ill-informed about many things. I pointed out that there were no merit-based scholarships at MIT (I have NO idea if they would qualify for need or not, but I also directed her to NPCs) and also sent a link to the CDS showing the middle 50 percent of ACT scores at MIT are 33 - 35. Additionally, I made some suggestions about loving thy safety, etc. My husband says I have already said too much, that she is clearly not interested in what I have to say. Her ds is an unhooked white guy with a 30 on the ACT.

 

I am encountering this sort of denial more and more. She did not ask my advice, so I probably shouldn't have started PM-ing her. However, I have had many other people directly seek out my advice re: college admissions since we went through the process last year. There is so much misinformation out there! What do you do when people seek out your advice, but really don't want to hear that their child is not the "snowflake" they perceive him or her to be?? And that many qualified applicants get rejected?? I do realize it's one thing to give unsolicited advice, but it's quite another when asked and then dismissed because people are in denial.

 

I'm not sure I have a question - maybe I should just keep my mouth shut when not asked and play dumb when I am.

 

ETA: I had asked a couple of days ago if her ds had taken subject tests (MIT requires two - a math and a science). I just went over to FB after posting here, and she had PM'd back, "Ack! No! Thanks for the heads-up!"

If she doesn't ask for or want your advice, there really isn't much you can do.  It is very unlikely for him to be admitted with a 30 ACT, but if she researches this, she should be able to uncover this information. 

 

All you can do it share what you have learned from your own research,and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Jen500]

Recommend College Confidential? Possibly never. (just kidding)

 

College Confidential can have some decent information but it is not always accurate.  The "Chance Me" forum is often full of misinformation. My son's high school is visited by about 500 admissions people from different universities and colleges and at every discussion we've attended as a family, all of the admissions people have said not to take the chance-me advice seriously. My favorites are the ones where two prospective applicants chance each other. The conversations go something like this:

 

Prospective Applicant #1: Hey, if you'll chance me, I'll chance you!

 

Prospective Applicant #2: Wow, really? Okay!

 

(They both look everything over.)

 

Prospective Applicant #1: You look great! I'm sure you'll get in.

 

Prospective Applicant #2: You look great, too -- love those ECs -- I'm sure you'll also get in!

 

Hooray! Besties Forever!   :cheers2: 

 

 

All kidding aside, my son did find three people there who gave him good, specific info about a program he is interested in, but even so, we verified everything. The info was good, though. You just have to separate the good advice from the not-so-good advice.

 

Around 9th or 10th is a good time to check out what universities require. Just gather information. Besides reputable websites, either buy or look at a college guide, something like the Fiske guide. Find out: Does the school want the SAT/ACT with writing? SAT Subject Tests? You can take those as early as freshman year. A full year of art or music? A few like University of California schools and most of the public Ohio schools want a full year of the same art/music course -- and they don't accept everything. Better to know sooner than later. How many years of a foreign language and how many years for other subjects? That is info you can gather early.

 

In the meantime, help your student explore and develop genuine interests and talents. There is no need to do everything.

 

Oh my. I spent about 10 minutes on CC last night, just trying to figure out the site layout. I ended up going to the CollegeBoard site and then a specific college website looking for some basic information with no fluff.

 

I guess I worry about the things that aren't on the college website…worried about things I don't even know I should be paying attention to. My oldest are actually at a b&m school now but I don't know how good the guidance dept is and they have a lot of students.

 

For example, the SAT subject tests: if my son is taking Algebra 2 this year, should he take the Math 1 right after the course, or should he wait and take the Math 2 after taking calc? Also, he is taking AP World History-should he take the test for that after finishing the course this year? The one college I've looked at so far only requires a math and a science. But do most students take more? He's a freshman, does that matter? 

[regentrude]

For example, the SAT subject tests: if my son is taking Algebra 2 this year, should he take the Math 1 right after the course, or should he wait and take the Math 2 after taking calc?

 

Math 2 does not require calc, just precalculus.

Every bit of advice I got said to take the Math 2 test; it covers more material, but it has the more forgiving curve. the curve on Math 1 is brutal.

Of course, your DS can always give the Math 1 a shot - no harm done.

 

[maize]

I do think there is a need for easy to access, well-organized, and comprehensible information for parents about realistic college admissions and financial aid. I know my parents were clueless when my oldest sister was applying for colleges. Someone at school recommended she apply to Stanford and she did, but my parents were convinced it was pointless because even if she got accepted they could never afford it. They were astonished when the financial aid package came in to find that it was in fact no more expensive to them than the mid-tier school they had expected her to attend. 

 

Of course that was before internet days and information is more readily available now, but there is so much of it to wade through and it can be overwhelming to try to sort out reputable information from everything else.

[Hoggirl]

All kidding aside, my son did find three people there who gave him good, specific info about a program he is interested in, but even so, we verified everything. The info was good, though. You just have to separate the good advice from the not-so-good advice.

 

Yes, I, too, found a couple of specific posters on some of the individual college forums who were incredibly helpful - particuarly with information about ds's music supplement and thoughts about updates post-deferral. I think the best way to find the "good ones," is to lurk and then send PM's. Most generic-type information can be obtained in many places, but if you have more specific questions, it doesn't take too long to figure out who knows their stuff!

[Hoggirl]

It amazes me what people don't want to know. I wish someone had handheld me through the process.

This is SO true! Sadly, denial creeps into areas of life other than college admissions.

 

Wholeheartedly agree with Creekland - I take my coffee black. Meaning, I want all the valid insights/information I can get my hands on - good, bad, or otherwise.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Seriously, I checked out Penn's page and it made me feel awful and lacking and I graduated from Wharton. I think some posters are there just to troll. There are some chance mes that are either superhuman or are trying to scare off other applicants. However, I think Penn might be a "hot" school now so it's probably not a fair representation of what CC has to offer for more normal schools. I'd definitely take CC with a shaker full of salt.

 

 

I peeked into the page for my alma mater a few years ago.  I was pretty disappointed with the information provided there.  It seemed like a couple of what I tend to call "grumpy grads" were prolific posters.  They aren't necessarily tuned into the current situation with admissions and tended towards replies that were rather harsh and verging on mean. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Recommend College Confidential? Possibly never. (just kidding)

 

College Confidential can have some decent information but it is not always accurate.  The "Chance Me" forum is often full of misinformation. My son's high school is visited by about 500 admissions people from different universities and colleges and at every discussion we've attended as a family, all of the admissions people have said not to take the chance-me advice seriously. My favorites are the ones where two prospective applicants chance each other. The conversations go something like this:

 

Prospective Applicant #1: Hey, if you'll chance me, I'll chance you!

 

Prospective Applicant #2: Wow, really? Okay!

 

(They both look everything over.)

 

Prospective Applicant #1: You look great! I'm sure you'll get in.

 

Prospective Applicant #2: You look great, too -- love those ECs -- I'm sure you'll also get in!

 

Hooray! Besties Forever!   :cheers2: 

 

 

All kidding aside, my son did find three people there who gave him good, specific info about a program he is interested in, but even so, we verified everything. The info was good, though. You just have to separate the good advice from the not-so-good advice.

 

Around 9th or 10th is a good time to check out what universities require. Just gather information. Besides reputable websites, either buy or look at a college guide, something like the Fiske guide. Find out: Does the school want the SAT/ACT with writing? SAT Subject Tests? You can take those as early as freshman year. A full year of art or music? A few like University of California schools and most of the public Ohio schools want a full year of the same art/music course -- and they don't accept everything. Better to know sooner than later. How many years of a foreign language and how many years for other subjects? That is info you can gather early.

 

In the meantime, help your student explore and develop genuine interests and talents. There is no need to do everything.

 

The chancing bit strikes me as a terrible waste of time.  What actionable experience do a couple of students in the process of applying have on what makes a student a good candidate for a school?

[FaithManor]

I gave up becauseit is a waste of time and since the accident, I've become stingy with time taken from my family for merry go round pursuits! I referred someone to college confidential the other day. This is a homeschooling mother who has always been determined to believe that a minimal effort on her and her children's part would result in her kids being heads and shoulders above the local ps kids.

Problem is, while the local ps is not doing a good job and is not challenging their better students, this girl isn't just competing against local kids! She wants to attend MSU for pre-vet and vet school.

Here is what she will have:

Algebra 1 - B, Gometry - C, Algebra 2 - B
Biology - A, Chemistry - C, Conceptual Physics - B
Four years of English - all A's
Four years of history/social studies with A's but the freshman year was Michigan History so I do not know if it will ding her transcript or not.

No foreign language
1 fine art credit given for a year of guitar lessons
1 credit of home economics

No math or science the senior year but she does have 3 credits of Agricultural classes from the tech center.

She has a 24 on the ACT and thinks that rocks because the state average was 20.2 or there abouts for the previous three years.

The dad makes enough money that they do not qualify for need based aid. She isn't going to get a scholarship of any kind. Since she needed precalc, another year of science, two years of foreign language, and another fine art to be in the running for MSU, much less admission to prevet, I think it's a pipe dream. They think she will get in with big scholarships because "colleges love homeschoolers". Sigh....I did not refer her to this board because I do not want to waste our time. They can go see the reality on college confidential and then find a cc with a vet tech program because that is her likely future. Maybe she can work as a tech for a while, take cc classes to get up to speed and become competitive, and then apply to MSU.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have a friend who recently posted a photo on Facebook of her ds holding his MIT application which he had received in the mail. He had a big grin on his face, and her caption read, "This is the one he has been waiting for! Boy better get some scholarships!" I think many people thought it was an acceptance and started offering congrats, etc. She then clarified in a comment that it was only the application for applying but how exciting it was to be "singled out." :/

 

I did some PM-ing with her, and while I do think she understands his chances of admission are a long-shot, she seems to be ill-informed about many things. I pointed out that there were no merit-based scholarships at MIT (I have NO idea if they would qualify for need or not, but I also directed her to NPCs) and also sent a link to the CDS showing the middle 50 percent of ACT scores at MIT are 33 - 35. Additionally, I made some suggestions about loving thy safety, etc. My husband says I have already said too much, that she is clearly not interested in what I have to say. Her ds is an unhooked white guy with a 30 on the ACT.

 

I am encountering this sort of denial more and more. She did not ask my advice, so I probably shouldn't have started PM-ing her. However, I have had many other people directly seek out my advice re: college admissions since we went through the process last year. There is so much misinformation out there! What do you do when people seek out your advice, but really don't want to hear that their child is not the "snowflake" they perceive him or her to be?? And that many qualified applicants get rejected?? I do realize it's one thing to give unsolicited advice, but it's quite another when asked and then dismissed because people are in denial.

 

I'm not sure I have a question - maybe I should just keep my mouth shut when not asked and play dumb when I am.

 

ETA: I had asked a couple of days ago if her ds had taken subject tests (MIT requires two - a math and a science). I just went over to FB after posting here, and she had PM'd back, "Ack! No! Thanks for the heads-up!"

 

I always share when people ask me genuinely.  But I also try to not rain on someone's parade in public.  In your situation, I might post a couple of articles about how competitive elite schools are on my own thread, assuming that they would catch the friend's eye.

 

[Hoggirl]

I always share when people ask me genuinely. But I also try to not rain on someone's parade in public. In your situation, I might post a couple of articles about how competitive elite schools are on my own thread, assuming that they would catch the friend's eye.

 

Oh, I agree! I absolutely did not rain on her parade in public. All the communications we had were via private messages. I did not, however, "like" her public post. But I certainly didn't put all my bossy free advice (lol!) out publicly - only in private.

[Hoggirl]

At what point in high school would you recommend College Confidential? Is 9th grade too early? Or is that too late... :lol:

I decided to look into this. Looks like I joined CC in March of ds's sophomore year of high school. The Class of 2014 Parents' thread was already going strong, however. I creeped on that thread all senior year! Those parent groups seem to be pretty fun. There are always a couple of braglomaniacs, but overall it was a supportive crowd. But no more so than here!!!

[Luckymama]

I started reading CC when my son was in ninth grade. I usually only read the parents' board but occasionally I peek at scholarships and particular schools.

 

We live in a very competitive area. I like to keep my finger on the pulse, yk?