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Why spend much time at all on early elementary history?


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I hear over and over on this forum that early elementary kids retain next to nothing in regards to history. 

 

Now I get that there is some value in teaching history to give them a few pegs to hang info on later on, and in teaching them that people lived differently than us in the past and even in the present in other cultures....even if they don't catch all the details.  So I get that it's good not to do away with it completely at this age, but why does it seem that there are many people on these forums that devote a significant amount of time to history at this age?  My only thought is that maybe with more hands-on projects and historical fiction MAYBE a bigger impression might be made and they would remember a few more details?  Otherwise, it seems like the above goals could be achieved in 15 minutes a couple times a week.

 

I have SOTW for my 2nd grader next year, but I'm going back and forth regarding whether that is a waste of time and I should go for something MUCH simpler (not sure what that would be though).  Or my other thought is that I should do it daily and do as much as the extra stuff as I can fit in to try to make an impression on DS.

 

Any thoughts of philosophies on this?

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We do it because my kids love it...the same with a big science program.

 

My kids don't retain a ton but they do retain the parts they are interested in.

 

If my kids were hating it I wouln't bother but it's the highlight of their program so we soldier on LOL

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Some kids really love history, so those kids' parents will spend more time on it.

 

Some parents use history to teach reading, writing, spelling, grammar, etc. If a kid hates language arts but enjoys history, they might be willing to learn about something historical, draw a picture, and write a sentence about it. Sneaky way to get some writing in. ;)

 

Some parents just love history, and the kids are game. :lol:

 

I will say that my oldest has retained a lot of history facts, but it's not necessarily the ones I expected him to retain. He also read SOTW himself several times, so he's picked up a lot from the repetition. He really likes history. My current 1st grader isn't as gung-ho about history, so we've been very relaxed about it - just reading a few books each week. I'd say 15 minutes a couple times a week is about what I do with him. He's still working hard at reading, so I've focused more on that and kept his day short.

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History is our fun part of school.  We read fiction, watch movies, cook food, go on field trips, play dress up, art projects and so on.  For some people they do those things with science.  I don't expect my kids to have more than a broad overview of history, but they enjoy the trails we take.  This year I broke from the 4 year history cycle and we are learning American History based on working our way through wars.  My son loves it, and seems to soak up more that way.  We will continue next year with modern American History and then enter the 4 year cycle again.  My thoughts are that in high school he will take 2 years of World History, 1 year of US History and 1 year of Civics.   So we do things differently than how WTM outlines.

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I love history, and one of my kids loves it too. Another kid likes it OK, while their sibling dislikes it and doesn't find it relevant. 

Yes, it does depend on the family and the kids.

 

Simple programs? Well SOTW can be done pretty simply. We used to simply read the chapter, read a few supplementary books, and do a project when we felt like it. Even if you do it as suggested, it's just the above plus writing and map work. It's really a matter of personal preference whether you want your child to write in a history notebook or practice narrations in other subjects. Similarly, maps can be done, in as much or as little details as you want, separately or with history. 

 

Another very simple way to do history is by going backwards instead of forwards. Start by showing your child old photos of you, his other parent, and/or other significant adults he knows. Tell him about what was different 20 or 30 years ago, then start working gradually backwards, perhaps by taking oral histories from grandparents or other elders. The reason I'm suggesting this is because some children really don't care what happened in ancient Rome but are fascinated to know that mom didn't use to have the internet or a cellphone. 

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I LOVE history, but I don't think it is necessary or even important for the younger years. 

 

We do it in a very simplified way.  I read a chapter in Child's HIstory of the World and my son draws a related picture on an index card.  I skip weeks at my whim. 

 

And Jim Weiss reads us SOTW, which I deeply appreciate. I don't love reading SOTW aloud, for some reason, and he does it so much better than I ever could. My son adores JW anyhow.

 

But I don't think these are necessary. I do it because *I* like it, and I enjoy history.  I am not a crafty, hands-on person so we don't dress up, build anything, etc. Maybe when my children are older and they can do it themselves--but for now, nope!

 

I really think that for a child in the elementary years history is a nice option, but in no way mandatory.  I may get burned at the stake for such classical-homeschooling heretical statements (would my CC group ever recover from the shock?) but that's just my opinion! :)

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Some kids really love history, so those kids' parents will spend more time on it.

 

Some parents use history to teach reading, writing, spelling, grammar, etc. If a kid hates language arts but enjoys history, they might be willing to learn about something historical, draw a picture, and write a sentence about it. Sneaky way to get some writing in. ;)

 

 

 

These are my 2 main reasons. The second being the big one.  Language arts done in the traditional out of context, different book for each subject way absolutely makes my skin itch so we do as much LA through history, science and literature as we can.   Doing LA through history has actually made a huge difference in my young dc's ability to retain what they learn in their content subjects. 

 

If my kids didn't like it so much I might still be inclined to do it just for the LA integration, but if I did LA separately and my kids didn't care one way or the other about history then I wouldn't bother until middle school  (5th grade) other than as interest about historical people or events came up from natural curiosity. 

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I see it as a way to learn and practice skills they'll need later. No, they'll assuredly not remember anything about the Nubians becoming Egyptians, but we practiced handwriting, reading maps, and narration. 

My kids are probably not going to remember the beginning chapter books they're trudging through, but I'm not going to ask them to stop reading because they're not retaining the stories. For us, for now, it's the process, not the end result. 

Also, while if they're not necessarily retaining much of the history, the kids LOVE the SOTW book and activities. It makes school fun. I can't always make math fun, you know? But history can be entertaining and educational. 

 

Finally, I've found that my children do retain the stories (myths, folk tales) that are included with most chapters. I didn't encounter Gilgamesh until college, but my kiddos now like to act it out. It's definitely building a broader cultural literacy that I'd not necessarily offer.

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Our family don't much like history (I'm an IT tech by qualification, and DH is a CNC machinist, so we are both very mathy. Kids show similar tendencies) 

 

We have lots of living books about history/geography/countries around the world. We will be getting horrible histories and magic treehouse. I may end up 'assigning' some of these books in the future and right now we do read at least one a week, I think some basic exposure is important. But we actually don't bother doing anything more formal (activities happen if we get a cool idea from a book, no assignments or mummified chickens here). We probably won't do formal history until about 6th grade.

 

I suppose if the kids love it I can see the value, but I'm like you, for us it would feel like a waste of time.

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My father died when I was just beyond infancy. He had been speaking one of his home languages, which my mom didn't speak at all, with me. When he passed away, that language stopped being a part of my life, and I obviously couldn't speak it at all. Later on, I moved to the country where that language was spoken. I achieved fluency within three months. Why so quickly? Because it was still in my brain, somewhere, and once I was surrounded by it, it came very naturally indeed.

 

I think of early history study in the same way. My kids retain some things while totally forgetting others. That's OK. During the next four-year cycle, these things will be studied again — and the initial information they received will still be in their brains somewhere, making it much easier to gain a deeper understanding of history. We make history relevant by practicing writing and grammar skills through it as well.

 

I was thinking to myself that it wasn't that important until I read your response...That is actually the most convincing reason I have heard...

 

Thanks for giving me a new way to look at it...

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I have been surprised at how much history my kids have retained from the early elementary years. Like others, it hasn't always been what I expected.

 

My ds loved to play Athens vs Sparta. Both kids built forts and staged battles with soldiers or ships. (Spanish Armada comes to mind.). My dd has gone through phases where she's been fascinated with a particular time period,and all of her play and dress up reflected that - ancient Egypt, Persia, Colonial America, Native Americans, pioneers, underground railroad, etc.

 

I would much rather give my kids history to fill their minds and fuel their imaginations than not.

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My 5 yr old practically runs screaming when I pull out SOTW. My 8 yr old and I use it as a read aloud and pair it with funny/gross stuff from HH and talk about it a lot. That's as far as we go with it.

 

However, my daughter who cries when I say "time for history" - we were at a bday party recently for one of her little homeschool friends. All the kids at this particular party were at some stage or another in SOTW. What do I overhear as I walk through a room? MY daughter at 5 yrs old talking with a 9-10 yr old boy about ancient Mesopotamia. All the kids were planning to go play outside and were "playing history". And this kid of mine, seeing how much she had retained without even LIKING the book, sealed the deal for me. We still only plan to use it as quick read stories but the pegs are already proving to be in place :)

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I think whether younger kids retain history depends on their experience and level of interest. Mine seem to be retaining, but they really enjoy it. But I don't spend a lot of money. I choose an age appropriate spine, dd 3rd grade, has a shorter, simple book that she is able to read on her own. Then we add literature, biographies and other books mostly from the library. And add some movies or documentaries. We don't really write about history or do any projects/activities.

 

DD fell in love with the Little House books this year after reading one for American history do we stopped all other history while she read through the series. DS really showed an interest in documents & speeches during Am. History this year so we are incorporating those into his memory work and taking more time with them. So history here is very flexible.

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I just came to the realization last year that we are not heavy-history people.  I am a math/accounting person and DH is an engineer. We certainly like and appreciate history--but I am noticing that a LOT of homeschool families around us LOVE and LIVE AND BREATHE history--homeschooling is an "excuse" to study history all day :)  And I had been feeling like that was what we were "supposed" to do, to be real homeschoolers and get a real education.

 

After last year, when our Sonlight core took 2 hours or more per day to get through history, I started to question the imbalance--and figure out our own priorities.  And we switched to MFW and do very little "book basket" work, and I'm feeling a lot better about our history time.

 

I agree with statements above, that history studies are good for a lot of things.  We enjoy writing about history a lot more than we might enjoy math narrations :) and my boys do love maps, so we spend time on mapping and geography.  I had a very weak history education--I moved a lot when I was in school and kept missing entire chunks of history.  So I do want to work through history and help them to have a stronger background than I did--

 

I'm thinking the families that spend hours on history every day and dress up in costumes and do elaborate projects just have a love of history--there is SOMETHING that we are spending more time on that they don't have time to do.  It's just a preference--

 

 

Well...why not? What else would you do all day?

 

I especially like doing American history with littles because of all the fun field trips we can do. :-)

What else would we DO all day?  Well, we spend a lot of time on math and science and free reading--and lots of time to work on individual projects :)

 

Only so much time in the day . . . .

 

Betsy

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I personally love history, but we don't do a formal history program. This is an area where I find "interest led" works very well. I provide resources and jump on natural opportunities to discuss it. But we have more critical areas to devote our attention to in the limited time I will allow for formal "lessons". (I place a higher value on "free play" than formal lessons).

 

But it is pretty common for me to involve my kids in a history documentary I am watching. And we talk a lot about history/geography in regular life. But that may be partly due to the fact that I love history, so I talk about it.

 

I may start a slightly more formal history program by 3rd grade or so, I have visions of doing the 4 yr cycle for 3rd through 6th, but I am not sure if I will still feel that way then. :)

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My father died when I was just beyond infancy. He had been speaking one of his home languages, which my mom didn't speak at all, with me. When he passed away, that language stopped being a part of my life, and I obviously couldn't speak it at all. Later on, I moved to the country where that language was spoken. I achieved fluency within three months. Why so quickly? Because it was still in my brain, somewhere, and once I was surrounded by it, it came very naturally indeed. 

 

I think of early history study in the same way. My kids retain some things while totally forgetting others. That's OK. During the next four-year cycle, these things will be studied again — and the initial information they received will still be in their brains somewhere, making it much easier to gain a deeper understanding of history. We make history relevant by practicing writing and grammar skills through it as well. 

 

 

This is it for me. While I love history and would do it just for fun, with 4 between the ages of 2-7, I don't have tons of spare time to spend on something I don't find essential. But when you learn something at an early age it just sticks in your brain. History, or science IMO, are essential in elementary not because they'll remember it but because it will teach them to enjoy it and it will make it "comfortable" when they relearn it later. 

 

That said, both history and science are subjects that we spend maybe an hour on each week (not including memory work from CC), while language arts and math get an hour a day 6 days a week. 

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In my case, it's because my DD is an advanced reader, but isn't emotionally ready to dive into secondary level literature yet. Doing "kids' history", with lots of biographies and historical fiction and Story of the World level texts gives her interesting reading material to dive into and analyze and topics that make her think and are real. It's a good subject to develop the "Reading to learn" skills, and doesn't have the limiting factor of requiring math skills to understand it, the way science gets to after a point.

 

If she hadn't already been at an advanced reading level and had needed to spend more time on learning to read, as opposed to reading to learn, we might spend less time on history.

 

I will say that for my DD, it turned out that modern history needed to be saved until she was a bit older. She'll finally tackle Moderns this coming year, at about age 10, because she just wasn't emotionally ready for things like reconstruction and the civil rights movement, the Holocaust, Apartheid, and similar topics younger, even at the level SOTW covers them at.  We've spent a lot of time on Egypt, Greece, Rome, Medieval history, Renaissance, and Colonization, all of which were able to capture her imagination and spark interest, but without being quite so "real".

 

 

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We don't start SOTW until this coming year, but I am so excited to start. Maybe this is unusual, but I remember a TON from my early elementary history lessons and found it so fun. I look forward to sharing the stories with my children and plan to do as many projects as we can to bring it alive.

 

In grade 2 I made a model of the Parthenon out of homemade playdough. Grade 3 I made a model of a Canadian Aboriginal settlement. Grade 4 was a salt dough topographical map of Canada. I remember doing these projects like it was yesterday.

 

Ironically, I ended up in a STEM field and I don't remember if we even did science in elementary.

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For us it is because history makes the greatest read-aloud. We don't do the projects, we just read and read, and then discuss look at maps, make connections. That is the important part to me is the process of learning history. 

 

For us it greatly improved reading and comphrension. When Eldest started WWE 3 this year (without doing the other WWE books) he thought the parts to read and the narrations to create where easy since he had already seen me doing this for him, and with him for all the SOTW books.

 

 

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I am a polymer scientist and engineer, and I love history.  We also spend a lot of time on it because dd loves it.  She has learning issues that mean all of her core subjects are such a struggle for her, but she is incredibly intelligent her comprehension for language and concepts is years beyond her age level.  History and literature are areas where she just she thrives from having lots and lots of things read aloud to her.  It is importannt for her to know she is advanced in some areas while she struggles in others.  The study of history brings her joy.

 

I don't do dress ups, or re-enactments, or build miniature pyramids.  :no: I am just not creative. 

 

But we *do* have rather deep discussions about history, and the reasons for wars, about the geography of the areas involved, and similarities/parallels between incidents, trends, and wars long past and how we can see their effects even now in current global events.  These readings and discussions have given her a huge jump in analytical and critical reasoning, in my opinion. We read lots of primary and secondary sources, discuss bias, and in general delve fairly deeply.  Biographies of significant people have also driven her interest in things like science and invention, as well as history.

 

 

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Because I don't consider history a school subject. I consider it a life long pursuit. And I don't think it's particularly difficult to do. And I don't quiz or test my kids on it. Projects are fun.

 

I wouldn't ever consider history a waste of time. 

 

If I thought of it as a series of school assignments and tests/quizzes and a curriculum I had to get through in 36 weeks...yeah I would consider that a waste of time.

 

 

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I have found that my kids (now that some are older) retain little to none.  However, the reason I continue it is because I could not believe how FUN history was!  My school days included history only in high school, and it was as boring as you could possibly make it!  I want my kids, if nothing else, to at least get an idea that history is totally fun so that when they get older, they will want to learn more about it and will retain more.  My oldest is in high school and, while he doesn't remember anything that we covered in 1-4th grades, he has such a positive view of history that he willingly watches history documentaries and reads about it in his free time.  I am seeing the same inclinations with my middle schooler, now, too.  If for no other reason, it is worth it for that.  Plus, I am learning all the stuff that I didn't learn when I was in school!

Hot Lava Mama

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One reason we do a lot of history is that there are good resources for it. DS7 is an advanced reader and has a voracious appetite for books. I like to encourage him to read a mix of fiction and non-fiction. There are so many good history books and biographies written at a ~3-6th grade level. More than science or nature or whatever. Also, with the Garrard biographies or the Landmark books or other series it is so easy to just pick the next interesting topic to read about. It would be even easier if these weren't mostly OOP... but we are heavy library and ILL users.

 

All our history is reading based, we don't do worksheets and assigned craft projects. DS often does crafty things on his own, but those are free play projects he dreams up on his own.

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We LOVE story at our home--and history is just that--stories that resonate through the ages, stories about real people that had all the struggles and joys of humanity, just like we do.

 

Ds grew up to enjoy film--his favorite work from homeschool? Song of Roland--based in history.

 

Dd loves people--and history gives her many people to hear from! As she learns their stories, she can relate her own life to them.

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We are in the minority in that we don't like SOTW. We don't like the narrative, we don't like the chronology, and we most assuredly do not like the map work and extras. And unfortunately, my dd won't listen to any more Jim Weiss. She groans when she hears his voice. I've decided to loosely follow the history cycle from Charlotte Mason Help. We focus mainly on the myths/folklore, biographies, and how different cultures lived. We don't care so much about wars and who was in charge. I've decided that history at this age, for my family, is all about exposure to different time periods through material that excites us--not making sure we touch on all the "important" stuff.

 

We tend to enjoy science more, so that is our "fun school".

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My kids love history. Love it. They love the stories, the action and the adventure. We are die-hard SOTW fans, and get the books (I am reading them at this point), the activity guide (mostly for the coloring pages, map work and questions), and the CDs. We play the CDs pretty much non-stop in the car. 

 

History provides us with useful jumping off points. The boys really don't care for math, language arts, or phonics, unfortunately. But... as a sneaky mom, I am writing a curriculum for DS8 on "Civil War Math." We use McGuffey readers because they are "historic." Our language arts questions all are based on SOTW passages. I'm pretty shameless. 

 

 

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We tried to just focus on cultures one year with very little actual history and did.not.like.it. The kids and I love history! It's been a struggle again this year since I have the kids on two different curricula. Thinking about how we can combine it again. I think, for us, history done together is necessary for our homeschool sanity!

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I suppose, looking at the responses, a big part of it is how much the parents value history.

 

I value it as an interest and enjoy historical fiction, I used to be involved in some medieval reenactment stuff, I think there is a core amount of knowledge one should have, but on my list of important things for a good education it actually rates fairly low on the list. Not non-existent, just low (yep, I just said that on TWTM forum, can you tell I'm not a strict adherent? :P) I'm sure my own personal bias plays in there, and if my kids seem to have a keen interest we will look at reevaluating some priorities, but for us it's just not a big deal. As long as they have a general overview of major events, and enough understanding of certain periods to study philosophy and theology, it's just not on the radar. My educational goals look a little different (I also don't consider a foreign language terribly important, but I do expect my kids to study at least basic psychology, formal logic, and one computer programming language in high school. I'm making myself very unpopular now aren't I? :D)

 

Though, like I said, we are buying a number of good living books on history, at the moment we are going through the World Alphabet and A Child's Day series' (not history exactly, more geographical social studies, but same vein) and loving that. I expect most of what we buy will be read either in free reading or assigned reading at some point during their childhoods, so they are hardly unexposed to history. I guess I just put history for elementary and even middle school in the 'free time/interest led' basket instead of the 'core educational goals' basket.

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... (Beats playing Frozen. <eye roll>)

 

OT:

I heard through the Mommy Grapevine in my town that some little girls were so mean about playing Frozen characters ("Your hair isn't blond enough to be _____." "You're not pretty enough to be _____") that some local preschools banned it.  Ugh.

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I put in another vote for the idea that they retain a lot more than you'd think.

 

Do my kids remember tons of specific names and dates and so forth from history they did years ago?  No.

 

Do my kids have a framework where they know which came first from lists of historical events?  Sure.  Can they say at a glance vaguely where and when something comes from?  Yep.  When I say, "it was around the time of ___" do they usually go, oh, okay?  Absolutely.

 

They may not remember what was on Hammurabi's code or who built the Taj Mahal, but one glance at either of them and they'd know they were from Mesopotamia and India.  And while that sounds like nothing to those of us as adults who have already built up this web of information plus a ton more, it's actually huge.  It's huge that they have that already at age nine.

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I also like that my kids know to look to history. 

 

In Canada some people often talk about Quebec seperating from Canada. So when talking with my boys about that possibility and my thoughts about it I explained how not well it has always gone when other countries seperated. 

 

The same things have happened with other topics. So my boys know that when thinking of things that they can usually predict how things will turn out because it most causes lots of people in lots of places have done that before. 

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If history is made fun and interesting - and if the teacher is passionate about it, they may not dread it and get more out of it when older.  A positive experience at a young age can make all the difference in the world.  Instead of a subject that shows up "out of the blue" when reaching tenth grade (or so), it is business as usual since the student will be use to it.

 

History is fascinating - adventure, scandal, good, evil, crazy, romance, etc.  It has something for everyone.

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Oh, and because when you introduce a kindergartener to the "If You Lived" series, she might get interested.

 

Then she might become obsessed.

 

Then she might check out every single book the library has on colonial history.

 

Then she'll get on the Williamsburg site.

 

She'll learn the minute details of colonial life, such that she can talk like a peer with the tour guides.

 

Then she'll ask for a real loom.

 

Then she'll spend hours researching the exact proper form of the garments colonial women wore, and she'll ask that you make her some.

 

Then when you go to Williamsburg, a two-day visit requires four trips to the milliner's shop so she can discuss the minute details of various types of stays with the proprietor. At age seven.

 

Oh, and she'll take her little brother along with her. He'll be wearing the vest, shirt, and breeches that she insisted you make for him.

 

The crowning achievement of my sewing and crafting career will not be a wedding gown, even if I someday make one. It'll be drop-front breeches for a four-year-old, made with a pattern I (a very amateur seamstress, at best) drafted myself. The lifelong memories and delight this brought my children was worth every second I spent sewing for weeks before the visit. That is why we study history with elementary schoolers -- because it is FUN when it comes alive for them!

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Oh, and because when you introduce a kindergartener to the "If You Lived" series, she might get interested.

 

Then she might become obsessed.

 

Then she might checkout every single book the library has on colonial history.

 

Then she'll get on the Williamsburg site.

 

She'll learn the minute details of colonial life, such that she can talk like a peer with the tour guides.

...

 

I think this another huge benefit of studying history at a younger age... lots of adults are fascinated by this stuff too... discussing this with enthusiastic adults shows kids that intellectual pursuits are valued...

 

This year DS7 was considering dressing as John Paul Jones for Halloween... he had various flags and props he made. This led to an online discussion with a college friend who is a big JPJ fan and whose office is walking distance from his tomb.

 

Likewise, DS was into medieval siege engines and was able to discuss mangonels, trebuchets, onagers, traction vs torsion catapults, etc etc with our local maker community... was this history or engineering or both... This ranged from the mechanisms involved to named engines used in historical sieges.

 

I think kids benefit hugely from seeing adults who share their fascinations. History and science are more likely to elicit this response than fiction and other topics.

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JPJ as a Halloween costume! That's awesome!

 

Kids who love history grow up to be adults who love history. (Says the woman who never really outgrew a love of castles and knights and queens, and who went on to major in medieval history in college, LOL.). And then it makes for a great family bonding activity. DH specializes in early American architecture, so we spend a lot of time at historic sites as a family. And DH has been a docent for several years for a tour of local historic barns; he's taken the kids with him a few times, and they are always impressed at how much he knows. I definitely agree that an interest in history can show kids the value of intellectual pursuits.

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I was a little weary at first as well, but as we got more into history, they really enjoyed it. Although they can't really make any interpretive connections, they are gaining factual knowledge. And as they age and revisit the same concepts, I'm hoping they will recognize what they previously learned, add to it, and start making more connections on the material. 

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