Help me save my cats :(

[lavender's green]

Please...no flames.  If you don't like this, I respectfully request that you move along.  I'm just trying to do what's best for everyone.  And it's breaking my heart.

 

I have three cats, a 13 year old female (she's a dear, and she's staying right where she is, ie at the foot of my bed), and two 7 year old males.  The males are becoming a problem.

 

They keep marking inside the house.  The behavior got a lot worse after our second was born.  I've done everything I can think of - I clean up with Nature's Miracle, I use Feliway diffusers throughout the house, and I use the spray Feliway for marking on all corners as directed.  I use Cat Attract litter.  Multiple boxes in multiple locations.  Clean bill of health from the vet.  We even made them partially outdoor cats (after 5 years indoor), which helps a lot, but the marking gets ten times worse on crummy days like today when they're cooped up indoors (or when we're traveling).

 

One other thing is that they harass the female cat.  She needs to be kept isolated. :(

 

We have to keep all the bedroom doors shut, or they'll pee.  We can't do anything unusual (like be gone for several hours on a picnic), or they pee.  When I had contractions midway through pregnancy and had to go in for monitoring in the middle of the night, they peed everywhere.  When something they don't like happens, it's pee/marking.

 

We have a two year old and a baby.  There will most likely be more kids.  We'll have people over, we'll visit relatives, we'll go on vacations, we'll have odd accidents and sicknesses, etc.  In other words, the stress they're experiencing and their marking behavior is only going to continue.  Depending on how many children we have, we'll likely want to sell the house.  It can't be all marked up with cat urine (try as I do to get it cleaned up ASAP, of course).

 

I will not pass my problem on to someone else (give them away to a new home).  I care about them a lot and new owners may not be so nice about it.  I've also read that lots of pets given away for free wind up as dog bait.  I won't let them end up like that.  I won't give them to a no-kill shelter where they'll live in miserable little cages for the rest of their lives.

 

We are at the end of our rope.  It's time for tough decisions. 

 

Options:

 

1. Euthanasia (I can't describe how sad I am that it's even an option).

 

2.  Make them fully outdoor cats.  I don't really know how, but I would appreciate advice.  They'd need a shelter that can withstand the teens on winter nights and 100+ on summer days.  There are two difficulties - first of all, they're used to a comfy warm home, cuddles on the couch, etc.  It would be a miserable transition for them (and, honestly...I feel kind of done with all of this. :( ).  And the bigger difficulty is that it's the neighborhood norm to let cats wander free.  They'd have to fight for their shelter with about a dozen other cats, some of them aggressive Toms.  (An additional factor is cost - we're a little on the tight side right now and I have a feeling it'll have to end in option 1 anyway...)

 

3.  This is really grasping at straws...but it would be ideal...if anyone here, or a friend of yours, could take on two barn cats?  I would be so happy if they could not be a problem to anyone, anymore, but live a happy semi-outdoors life, doing as they please.  We live in NC.  We're willing take an extended weekend trip to deliver them.

 

ETA important info: yes, they've been fixed.

[SharonM]

Are they fixed?  I ask because I lived with a couple of male cats (not mine) that were not and they marked all the time. Maybe that would help?  Sorry you are having this problem. I hope that someone with more experience stops by.

[liber]

We opted for number 1 with our male cat. We couldn't find a farm, the city had bylaws about cats. They needed to be indoors and the kids were concerned that someone else might mistreat the cat if he peed in their house. It was hard to do but we felt it was the best decision.

[zoobie]

I had to put my oldest male cat on Buspar for his marking behavior. We then had to isolate him in a spare bathroom for 2-4 weeks for a "sensory reset." (We were working with an animal behaviorist through a large vet school, not just randomly trying crazy things!) Then we had to super super super clean all traces of marked areas. We wound up having to replace the carpet, padding, and a piece of floor board in a hallway. :/

 

I would *guess* the males' behavior is feeding off each other. Re-homing one cat may solve everything. The younger would have a better shot at finding a home through a good cat rescue.

 

I know how heartbreaking and stressful it is! I'm so glad the behaviorist's advice worked for us because I was at the end of my rope.

[lavender's green]

We opted for number 1 with our male cat. We couldn't find a farm, the city had bylaws about cats. They needed to be indoors and the kids were concerned that someone else might mistreat the cat if he peed in their house. It was hard to do but we felt it was the best decision.

 

Thanks for your honesty.  I used to be a little judgey about this. :001_unsure:

 

Also, the cats were fixed before we adopted them.

[lavender's green]

We opted for number 1 with our male cat. We couldn't find a farm, the city had bylaws about cats. They needed to be indoors and the kids were concerned that someone else might mistreat the cat if he peed in their house. It was hard to do but we felt it was the best decision.

 

Thanks for your honesty.  I used to be a little judgey about this. :001_unsure:

 

Also, the cats were fixed before we adopted them.

[liber]

Thanks for your honesty. I used to be a little judgey about this. :001_unsure:

 

Also, the cats were fixed before we adopted them.

That is why I won't get another male cat. He was fixed too.

 

If we ever have to put another cat down I won't be going to do it. I balled my eyes out.

[lavender's green]

I had to put my oldest male cat on Buspar for his marking behavior. We then had to isolate him in a spare bathroom for 2-4 weeks for a "sensory reset." (We were working with an animal behaviorist through a large vet school, not just randomly trying crazy things!) Then we had to super super super clean all traces of marked areas. We wound up having to replace the carpet, padding, and a piece of floor board in a hallway. :/

 

I would *guess* the males' behavior is feeding off each other. Re-homing one cat may solve everything. The younger would have a better shot at finding a home through a good cat rescue.

 

I know how heartbreaking and stressful it is! I'm so glad the behaviorist's advice worked for us because I was at the end of my rope.

 

Thanks very much for this feedback.  I think it would be unpleasantly do-able in our childless days, or if they kids were a lot older.

 

I agree that it looks like they're feeding off each other.  But the cat we would want to keep, personality-wise, is more of a Tom/alpha type, even though he's neutered.  I suspect his marking is more out of masculinity, and the other one's marking is more out of stress.  And they just keep smelling the other and marking.  :(

[zoobie]

Thanks for your honesty. I used to be a little judgey about this. :001_unsure:

 

Also, the cats were fixed before we adopted them.

From where did you adopt? The places we have gone through all request that you return the animal to them prior to euthanizing for a non-terminal condition.

[lavender's green]

That is why I won't get another male cat. He was fixed too.

 

If we ever have to put another cat down I won't be going to do it. I balled my eyes out.

 

Oh, how I wish I had known...

 

Girl cats have never given me this problem, and I've had, like, 9 cats through my life.

[Catwoman]

I would never, ever euthanize a pet over the behavior you're describing. Those cats might be entirely different in another home. Frankly, your favorite male sounds like a bit of a bully, so your other (stressed) male might never even start to mark a different home where he was the only male cat.

 

How do your female cat and the less dominant male get along?

[lavender's green]

From where did you adopt? The places we have gone through all request that you return the animal to them prior to euthanizing for a non-terminal condition.

 

We got them from a Humane Society, 800 miles away from where we live now.  They were very clear when we adopted that they do not take animals with elimination issues.  Those ones are euthanized immediately.  A brother of theirs was euthanized on arrival for elimination issues (the family had moved to an apartment that didn't allow pets and got rid of those 3 litter mates).

[Catwoman]

Oh, how I wish I had known...

 

Girl cats have never given me this problem, and I've had, like, 9 cats through my life.

We have had male cats in the house together over the years, and ever had the problems you've described, so I think it depends on the individual cats' personalities.

[bettyandbob]

Do you have a rescue you can give one of the males to? 

 

I would give away the one you seem to prefer. 

[liber]

I would never, ever euthanize a pet over the behavior you're describing. Those cats might be entirely different in another home. Frankly, your favorite male sounds like a bit of a bully, so your other (stressed) male might never even start to mark a different home where he was the only male cat.

 

How do your female cat and the less dominant male get along?

Our vet told us that once the male started marking it would be highly unlikely that the behaviour would stop even if he went to another home.

[lavender's green]

I would never, ever euthanize a pet over the behavior you're describing. Those cats might be entirely different in another home. Frankly, your favorite male sounds like a bit of a bully, so your other (stressed) male might never even start to mark a different home where he was the only male cat.

 

How do your female cat and the less dominant male get along?

 

I used to feel this way too. :)  Do you have any advice for finding them a different home?  As I said, I've had them for five years and care a lot about what happens to them, and I wouldn't expect a new owner to feel the same.  Again, I am just doing my best. :)

 

Actually the female and dominant male get along.  It's the non-dominant one who gets aggressive with her.

[Catwoman]

I used to feel this way too. :) Do you have any advice for finding them a different home? As I said, I've had them for five years and care a lot about what happens to them, and I wouldn't expect a new owner to feel the same. Again, I am just doing my best. :)

 

Actually the female and dominant male get along. It's the non-dominant one who gets aggressive with her.

Is there any way to have the non-dominant male stay with a friend or in a kennel for several days to see if things change in your house if he's not around?

 

If it's a male competition thing, it might make a difference.

[jewellsmommy]

I understand not wanting to pass the problem on, so I would reach out to some cat rescues and explain the situation. If they can't handle the problem they'll tell you so. But you might find one who feels as though they can re-train the cat. Just a thought.

[J-rap]

We had a similar problem, but with a female cat and a male cat.  The male cat was the sweet, gentle one who always used the litter box, but the female marked everything.  They were both fixed.  We tried everything we could think of -- everything you listed, and tried for about two years.  When she "marked" our big pile of brand new homeschool books, that was the last straw.  We were lucky in that I had a dear friend who lived on a farm and agreed to take her.  She became a farm cat.  She had to adjust to pretty extreme winters, but she did fine.  Her hair grew very thick and she learned how to catch mice.  She had a warm barn to live in during the winter.  We visited her several times over the years, and she was fine.

 

Unfortunately, after the female cat had marked practically everything in the house, our sweet male cat I guess decided he needed to cover it all up with his own scent.  It became a cycle that we just could not alleviate.  My parents tried taking him into their home, but then he was in the habit of marking and he didn't stop.  It was very difficult to give him away because he was such a sweetheart, but we did finally find a family who wanted him and knew of his problems.  They had a heated garage with a little flap so he'd be able to go in and out, and that's where they were planning to keep him.  They were a really sweet family, but they lived a distance away and we never kept in touch.  So, I'm not sure how that all ended up, and it's probably better that way. 

 

Now we are just a dog family. 

 

Good luck with everything;  I know how difficult it is figure out how to handle your furry friends whom you've grown to love!  However, your family comes first.  You can only handle so much!

[Jeannie in NJ]

We had the same situation . Our oldest male has been spraying all over our house for the last 2 years. I cleaned everything with Nature's Miracle and used the Filiway plug-ins, didn't work.  Finally, dh said enough is enough.  I took the cat to  our vet.  Cat has no medical issues so vet said to try amitriptyline tablets.  Vet called in the prescription to our local pharmacy, only 8 dollars for a 60 day supply.  I give the cat 1/2 a pill (use a pill splitter to divide pill in half) and give him the pill with my pill shooter (got at vet's cheap and easy to use).  It WORKED.  No more spraying.  Cat had been spraying daily for 2 years and now he doesn't.  We had been against giving him drugs but we were at our last resort and so far , so good, no side effects, he is just calmer, more relaxed, no more spraying.

[mommymilkies]

I would never, ever euthanize a pet over the behavior you're describing. Those cats might be entirely different in another home. Frankly, your favorite male sounds like a bit of a bully, so your other (stressed) male might never even start to mark a different home where he was the only male cat.

 

How do your female cat and the less dominant male get along?

This.  Please.  Euthanizing them?  I can't even.  At least have them be outdoor cats so they have a chance at life.  Or better yet, call around for cat rescues or people you know who actually farm and would take a barn cat.  I've had dozens of cats in my life-my Mom rescued a lot and I have 5 now.  I've never had the issues you've stated in male cats that were fixed.  It's an individual thing or a bladder issue.  You can try anti-anxiety meds or a check up for the bladder. Find a new doc if they won't help there.  

 

ETA: You are in NC.  I have many friends in Eastern NC who are involved with animal rescues.  Putting your pets' pictures and information on Facebook and asking to spread the word is a good way to go. But get references.  Just this past week, someone near my family posted an ISO for dogs to practice shooting. Sick, sick, sick. So always check references. 

[Unicorn.]

Some things that have worked here... try a different food.  Put them outside or lock them in a garage, utility room when you leave the house.  Use Odo-ban, not nature's miracle.  Works 10 times better than NM.  If you have to, re-home one of them, but please don't euthanize, that's just cruel.  I do understand the frustration.. I just washed a load of laundry 3 times today, to get rid of the pee smell. It's a weekly occurance around here.   I have cats that do that too.  We just deal with it.  And in our house, I have one male, and 2 females that take turns being the offenders.  :P  

 

Hugs!  I know your heart is hurting over this, and that you love your fur babies.  I would also try Jeanne's suggestion of the pills.  Sounds like the best plan if it works!

 

[EmilyK]

Thanks. We are having a similar issue here and it has helped to read the responses. Is it enough in retraining to keep them out of the room or rooms they have been fouling? Or do we need to confine them to one room, which is logistically harder?

[Ellie]

Girl cats have never given me this problem, and I've had, like, 9 cats through my life.

 

I had two spayed female cats who sprayed in the house, along with the neutered male. They almost didn't come to Texas with us. Happily, when we moved here, that behavior stopped. Go figure.

 

Which is to say that the OP's cats might give up that behavior if they lived somewhere else.

[Pawz4me]

The gold standard for retraining is to confine the cat to a smallish room for a minimum of two weeks.  The idea is that you limit the cat's choices for elimination spots.  If you don't have a small room, a large dog crate works very well.  You can often pick them up relatively inexpensively on Craigslist.

 

It's really not hard at all.  I would confine the cat who seems to be instigating the problem. I would medicate him (and preferably the other male, too).  I don't really understand why having young children would complicate that or why it would be "unpleasantly do-able" for anyone.  Confining a cat is no harder than having cats running loose in the house.  Especially for middle-aged/older cats such as yours who are very likely content to sleep a lot.  There's nothing unpleasant about it.  I would think it would be a relief, considering that IME once confined most cats who have been inappropriately eliminating start using the box right away.

 

Medicating cats can be a bit of a trial depending on your experience level with that and the individual cat.  Pill guns are wonderful inventions.  Some medications are available in transdermal (gel) form that can be rubbed into the cat's ear.  That's pretty darn easy, but I don't know if the medications that help with inappropriate elimination are available as transdermals.  Your vet should know, although frankly I'm rather flabbergasted that he/she hasn't already mentioned the medication option to you.  I would consider a new vet.

 

If medicating and confining for retraining don't work, then I would try to rehome the male cat who seems to be instigating the peeing.  A benefit of trying confining is that if he uses the box reliably when confined, that will be a very important piece of information for any rescue groups you contact.  Many will view the situation quite differently if they think he simply needs to be in a one cat only home.

 

The next option would be to make him an outside cat.  If you make him an outside cat, it's a fairly simple matter to take him to the vet or a kennel for boarding when you travel.  Hot days aren't a problem for cats at all.  He'd find a shady spot and sleep the day away.  For cold nights you could possibly allow him in your garage (assuming you have one) by leaving the door raised just a bit.  Or get a very small dog house fill it with straw or an old blanket.  There are microwaveable heating pads for pets that give off heat for hours.  Lots of options for helping a cat do okay in the cold.

 

Good luck in your decision.  I know it's a very frustrating problem to deal with.

[OneStepAtATime]

As others have mentioned, isolate them (preferrably separately at first if possible) in a small room with just food, water, litter box and things to play with, a place to sleep and come in to visit with them for at least 2 weeks.  See if you can untrain the behavior.  I have done this before and with three exceptions it has worked well.

 

Otherwise, find them a new home or make them strictly outdoor cats but provide a big dog house with a bed in it for shelter in the winter.  On really bad days, you might bring them in and isolate them in a bathroom or the garage.  Cats are very adaptable and can withstand a wide range of temperature fluctuations.

 

As for the option of finding them a new home, I know you are nervous about this, but we have rescued over 30 cats/kittens in our nearly 18 years of marriage and have found homes for most of them quite successfully.  In our area people almost never vaccinate or get animals fixed so there are a ton of unwanted cats spreading diseases and overpopulating.  We don't have to look.  They just show up.  We get them vaccinated, get them fixed, and find them homes...although we currently have 9, so we don't get new homes for all of them, obviously.  What I found was that if I put an ad in the paper for a fixed/vaccinated cat/kitten and then SCREEN the people coming to look at them, and stay in contact during the transition, I am able to ensure a better fit and make certain they aren't being taken for dog amusement or snake food.  There are a lot of people, at least in our area, that want a pet they know has been fixed and vaccinated but they cannot really afford to do those things themselves.  

 

Just as an example. one of our fully grown cats that we loved very much started peeing on everything and managed to ruin two couches.  She was under a lot of stress as my dad was dying, since I was not around much to spend time with her and the other animals were messing with her.  We had to give her away, but I found a wonderful college student by putting an ad in the paper.  I actually turned down two other people.  One was a family with a LOT of little kids that had never had a pet and seemed to be pretty clueless.  The other was a guy that gave off bad vibes.  I just didn't feel comfortable with him.  I told them both I had several people interested in the cat and would get back to them if the others decided not to take the cat.  I just kept interviewing until I found someone I though would be a good fit.  It ended up being this wonderfully sweet college student.  She really wanted a cat, not a kitten, and really couldn't afford to pay for all the kitten vaccines, getting the pet fixed, etc. since she was putting herself through college.  She was able to put the cat in an apartment that had no other pets (or existing pee smells) and spend lots of time with the cat, one on one, when she wasn't at school.  They ended up very happy together and the peeing issue stopped.

 

We have done this successfully many, many times.  If you can't remmediate the behavior with the suggestions made on this thread, then seriously consider trying to find them new homes.  I just don't see how euthanasia is a better option when you haven't actually tried to find them new homes.  Hopefully, someone on this thread will respond that they are willing and in the area, but if not, don't be afraid to put an ad in the paper and try that option.  Screen the respondents but don't assume that everyone that would respond is secretly planning something nefarious for your cats.  Honestly, we have found a lot of wonderful homes this way.

 

I will say that this does not always work, though.  We have one cat in isolation right now.  She pees on literally any type of cloth.  We have been unsuccessful at breaking her of this habit.  We have given her away 3 times.  All three times she has been returned because of the peeing issue (one time they actually had moved out of state and drove all the way back to return her).  She is declawed (not something I would normally suggest for a cat, by the way) so making her an outside pet is not an option (we made that mistake with another cat that had been declawed and he was ripped apart by dogs right behind our house).  We are very worried about our choices.  I do not want to euthanize her.  She is sweet and loving and I would love to find her a good home.  But having tried several times unsuccessfully to do so, I am wondering what other choices we may have, since her remaining in our other bathroom for the rest of her life doesn't seem like a great choice, either.  This is causing tension between DH and I, too.

 

Anyway, not sure I helped much, but big hugs and best wishes, whatever you decide to do.  

[FeFe]

the Adoption Center that we used had barn cat rescue/adoption as well. I wonder if there might be a similar organization in your area? It's not as heavily advertised as the "indoor" cat adoption but it's on their site and a small sign is posted in local pets stores.

[Shellydon]

We have a female cat that pees in the house.  After trying everything for  a year, she moved outside permanently.   We got her a heated cat mat that goes inside a cardboard box for winter (we flip a cardboard box upside, cover it with blankets and put the electric cat mat inside.)  She has lived outside for 7 years now, no problems.   ETA:  We have 4 cats right now, and have had many cats through the years.  While we love them dearly, we do not allow them to control our lives nor cost us tens of thousands in home repairs.  Do not feel badly about having put a peeing cat outside.

[ChristineP]

I feel your pain and frustration.  We are dealing with same issues here.  We isolate a problem cat in the basement.  It doesn't totally solve our problem but he was 95% of the issue.  He has food and water there and it is half finished so not a bad life.  He comes up at night and behaves himself.  Our bed is just irresistible to him during the day.

 

[Lolly]

I would try putting them outside during the day and letting them inside at night confined to one room. If that didn't solve the problem, I would put them outside full time. I would wait until the temps were better at night though. Next year, as long as they have somewhere to den up provided, they will have time to acclimatize to the weather. Super cold bursts you may want to provide a little heat (heating pad in their box works well). Summer just requires plenty of access to water. 

[Catwoman]

I'm not a big believer in putting indoor cats outside, so I think you should definitely exhaust all of the other "indoor cat" possibilities before you even begin to consider that option.

 

Outdoor cats have an average lifespan of only 5 years or so. That alone would be enough to convince me to either keep them indoors or find another indoor home for them.

[Lolly]

I'm not a big believer in putting indoor cats outside, so I think you should definitely exhaust all of the other "indoor cat" possibilities before you even begin to consider that option.

 

Outdoor cats have an average lifespan of only 5 years or so. That alone would be enough to convince me to either keep them indoors or find another indoor home for them.

 

 

Just want to put out there that that 5 yr lifespan is greatly lowered by the fact that it includes feral cats (of which there are many!). Outdoor cats who do not die in the first few years tend to live longer than the average indoor cat. This is area specific however. Places with a lot of coyotes, outdoor cats do not tend to fair as well. Especially when left outside overnight.

[Joanne]

*putting on flame suit*

 

I am posting not to invite debate, but in support of the reality of being held hostage by cat urine. It gets everywhere - and often before you know it. You end up wearing clothes with it "on", having guests sit on urine saturated furniture.

 

The odor permeates everything, often can't be completely remedied. Your home becomes a prison, run by furry inmates.

 

The impact is HUGE, and I understand. I have cried over this issue, over the frustration, over the *thought* of going home to a home with this issue. I have been completely embarassed - as have my children - by being "out" in something tainted by the odor and not knowing it.

 

It is awful. An awful that rises to the level of consideration(s) that I would not normally make. I encourage you to try every single option you can that is nurturing, respectful and kind. I'd spend time looking for options that allow all cats to *thrive*. But if they "fail", you have my total understanding to other choices.

 

Sometimes in life, you can ONLY choose from a pool of poor choices.  (Edited to add: your thread title shows your heart - your foremost desire to save them)

[Shellydon]

I'm not a big believer in putting indoor cats outside, so I think you should definitely exhaust all of the other "indoor cat" possibilities before you even begin to consider that option.

 

Outdoor cats have an average lifespan of only 5 years or so. That alone would be enough to convince me to either keep them indoors or find another indoor home for them.

 

Our outdoor cats live full long lives, currently 17 years and 13 years. 

[Jeannie in NJ]

our vet also told us that cats are creatures of habit and that daily spraying had just become our oldest's males habit by now so having him on the amitriptyline may not have to be forever, maybe just  a few months until the habit is broken.  But even if he does have to stay on the med forever, vet says it is a safe med and better than the alternative of giving him away.  Blackie is our oldest cat, at age 14 so we really did not want to give him away but we also were tired of the spraying so ask your vet about the meds.  If you do get the med ask your vet how to use the pill shooter, it is actually quite easy, sometimes I have someone hold him while I give him the pill, sometimes I have to do it by myself, he is actually fairly easygoing about me using the pill shooter with him, I think it happens so fast that he does not have time to react.

[AimeeM]

This, a million times over. While our "elimination issues" were with a dog, and the did have a medical condition, our vet told us (kindly but firmly) that even if it were *just* a hard headed pet with elimination issues, and no medical issues, a home with these things going on is no safe place for children to live.

*putting on flame suit*

 

I am posting not to invite debate, but in support of the reality of being held hostage by cat urine. It gets everywhere - and often before you know it. You end up wearing clothes with it "on", having guests sit on urine saturated furniture.

 

The odor permeates everything, often can't be completely remedied. Your home becomes a prison, run by furry inmates.

 

The impact is HUGE, and I understand. I have cried over this issue, over the frustration, over the *thought* of going home to a home with this issue. I have been completely embarassed - as have my children - by being "out" in something tainted by the odor and not knowing it.

 

It is awful. An awful that rises to the level of consideration(s) that I would not normally make. I encourage you to try every single option you can that is nurturing, respectful and kind. I'd spend time looking for options that allow all cats to *thrive*. But if they "fail", you have my total understanding to other choices.

 

Sometimes in life, you can ONLY choose from a pool of poor choices.  (Edited to add: your thread title shows your heart - your foremost desire to save them)

 

[Ottakee]

Can you advertise on Craig's list etc and list them with their issues or as "outdoor" cats?  Our barn cat lived to be 15 years old.  We have another one, a male, that just showed up one day and adopted our barn.  He now sits outside the slider waiting for the dog to come out and play and follows me everywhere.  He is fixed and has the barn and a heated water dish and food daily.  We have had temps to -15 with windchills of -45 this winter and he has done well.  Last summer we had temps over 100 a few days and a lot of humidity.  He has food, water, shelter, shade, etc. and seems to be a very happy fat cat.

[Catwoman]

*putting on flame suit*

 

I am posting not to invite debate, but in support of the reality of being held hostage by cat urine. It gets everywhere - and often before you know it. You end up wearing clothes with it "on", having guests sit on urine saturated furniture.

 

The odor permeates everything, often can't be completely remedied. Your home becomes a prison, run by furry inmates.

 

The impact is HUGE, and I understand. I have cried over this issue, over the frustration, over the *thought* of going home to a home with this issue. I have been completely embarassed - as have my children - by being "out" in something tainted by the odor and not knowing it.

 

It is awful. An awful that rises to the level of consideration(s) that I would not normally make. I encourage you to try every single option you can that is nurturing, respectful and kind. I'd spend time looking for options that allow all cats to *thrive*. But if they "fail", you have my total understanding to other choices.

 

Sometimes in life, you can ONLY choose from a pool of poor choices.  (Edited to add: your thread title shows your heart - your foremost desire to save them)

:iagree:

 

It's very obvious that this problem is really weighing on her mind, and she wouldn't be posting about it if she didn't want the best for her cats. I can absolutely understand that she's feeling trapped, because she loves the cats but hates the behavior.

 

It's a lousy situation to be in, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I hope my posts didn't come across as mean or hurtful, because that definitely wasn't my intention. I'm just hoping she can find a workable solution.

[Catwoman]

Just want to put out there that that 5 yr lifespan is greatly lowered by the fact that it includes feral cats (of which there are many!). Outdoor cats who do not die in the first few years tend to live longer than the average indoor cat. This is area specific however. Places with a lot of coyotes, outdoor cats do not tend to fair as well. Especially when left outside overnight.

I have never heard that. Do you have any statistics to back it up? I'm genuinely curious.

 

Our outdoor cats live full long lives, currently 17 years and 13 years.

I'm glad to hear that your outdoor cats are living such long and happy lives, but I do believe that they are the exception rather than the rule. And as Lolly mentioned, perhaps it's area-specific -- or even "neighborhood-specific."

[lavender's green]

*putting on flame suit*

 

I am posting not to invite debate, but in support of the reality of being held hostage by cat urine. It gets everywhere - and often before you know it. You end up wearing clothes with it "on", having guests sit on urine saturated furniture.

 

The odor permeates everything, often can't be completely remedied. Your home becomes a prison, run by furry inmates.

 

The impact is HUGE, and I understand. I have cried over this issue, over the frustration, over the *thought* of going home to a home with this issue. I have been completely embarassed - as have my children - by being "out" in something tainted by the odor and not knowing it.

 

It is awful. An awful that rises to the level of consideration(s) that I would not normally make. I encourage you to try every single option you can that is nurturing, respectful and kind. I'd spend time looking for options that allow all cats to *thrive*. But if they "fail", you have my total understanding to other choices.

 

Sometimes in life, you can ONLY choose from a pool of poor choices.  (Edited to add: your thread title shows your heart - your foremost desire to save them)

 

Thankyou for your kind words.  I spent most of the night awake thinking about this problem, but this is the first time I've gotten teary over it.  Actually in my teens years my parents let animals take over the house (back then they bothered to clean  it up; they don't anymore).  It's mortifying and it brings back awful memories and I can't raise my kids like this.

 

A couple of clarifications:  after baby #2 was born and the peeing really escalated, we very nervously started letting them outside during the day.  They absolutely love being indoor/outdoor cats, and it really cut down on our issues.  The problem is on rainy or snowy days, when they start doing it inside.  They also do it when anything unusual happens - a new piece of furniture, a guest, a suicase laying on the floor, an unusual shopping bag, etc.  I dread coming home from vacations (or even a half-day trip!) because I always find the house soaking.  We could deal with it before, but since moving into this house a little over a year ago, and then having a baby last fall, it's gotten out of control.

 

Keeping them locked in their own room for a re-set is not an option because the only suitable rooms are where they already pee the most.  We don't have a basement.  The garage isn't an option because they've already marked it up really badly, other cats can get in there, and we have some stuff in there that could hurt them if they're not careful (and nowhere else to store those things).

 

I also wanted to add that I'm aware that not all males do this.  It just seems like, in my research on the problem, it tends to be males who do it.

 

I'm not sure about anti-anxiety meds.  If life were always going to be perfectly predictable, I'd give them and then taper it off eventually.  But we're in a really busy stage of life.  We're having babies, buying furniture, off visiting relatives, having houseguests, etc.  When I looked into that option it seemed like they'd always be dopey, with a big personality change (if this isn't the case I'd welcome clarifications!).  I'm just saying...their lives are never going to get less stressful here, and stress really sets them off, but I don't want to medicate them forever and have it impact their quality of life or their ability to fend for themselves outside.  But I'd welcome success stories.  But if I'm  honest...I just want them out of the house at this point.

 

I'm going to seriously consider getting them a little outdoor shelter.  I feel so, so over having them in the house.  Last night was a low of 17 F, so I can't do it until spring is definitely here.  I'll look into those heating mats - thanks to the people who recommended them!  They're really not going to like it, though...

 

[lavender's green]

I think I've come up with a strategy.  Many thanks to the commenters here.  It was good to talk it through, it helped clarify my thoughts. :)

 

I'm pretty sure I don't want them in the house anymore.  I sort of think I don't want to keep them at all, but I do want to keep them alive.  So:

 

1.  Get anti-anxiety meds from the vet ASAP, as a temporary measure until it's spring.

 

2.  Transfer them outdoors in the spring.  See how it goes.

 

3.  In the meantime, and depending on how we feel about the outdoor transition and whether we want to keep them, research local pet rescues or prospective owners.  This isn't something I can do easily right now.  My nursling's kind of attached at the...you know. 

[Ottakee]

.  Last night was a low of 17 F, so I can't do it until spring is definitely here.  I'll look into those heating mats - thanks to the people who recommended them!  They're really not going to like it, though...

 

 

If they have a shelter, they would be fine outside with 17.  Our barn cat was out and happy as could be yesterday when it was -9 and made it through windchills of -40+ this winter.  They do need shelter and water that is thawed as well as possibly more food to help them keep warm.

[lavender's green]

If they have a shelter, they would be fine outside with 17.  Our barn cat was out and happy as could be yesterday when it was -9 and made it through windchills of -40+ this winter.  They do need shelter and water that is thawed as well as possibly more food to help them keep warm.

 

I just don't think it would be a great idea to keep them outside all night before they've acclimatized.  They're used to 65-70 at night.

[JoJosMom]

I would never, ever euthanize a pet over the behavior you're describing. Those cats might be entirely different in another home. Frankly, your favorite male sounds like a bit of a bully, so your other (stressed) male might never even start to mark a different home where he was the only male cat.

 

How do your female cat and the less dominant male get along?

 

OP specifically requested that those who disagree please move on.  Perhaps one should honor the request?

[JoJosMom]

OP, when we transitioned a barn cat into the house (My first time living in the country as an adult and I learned about mice-EWW.), we kept her in our German Shepard's crate for a week or two.  The crate was large enough to accomodate a litter box and food/water bowls, as well as give the kitty room to move around.  Maybe you could isolate the more aggressive cat until the transition outside?

 

Also, we have two barn cats who do just fine with sub-zero nights in winter and fairly hot summers (can get into mid-90s.)  Granted, they have a barn and a hay stack, as well as access to our shop, but it can be done.

 

Good luck; it sounds like a difficult situation.

[Laurie4b]

We lived for a while in a rental which didn't allow our dogs to be inside. To heat the doghouse, we put a light bulb inside it--just used a heavyduty outside extension cord. It worked well and the house was warm because it was such a small space. We only had to plug it in on very cold nights. Maybe you could do this for your cats.

[Kevin'sMom]

Try using puppy pee pads. Cats will use them, too. Put them with one edge up on something the cat has been spraying.

[MercyA]

 I won't give them to a no-kill shelter where they'll live in miserable little cages for the rest of their lives.

 

I'm very sorry you're having such a challenging time with your cats.  I know how hard that can be.  I do want to say that I think you're painting no-kill shelters with a pretty broad brush here. That has not been my experience at all.  Our local no-kill shelter has large cat rooms with sunny window perches, cat trees, scratching posts, beds, lots of toys, and plenty of treats and interaction with volunteers.  Pets Alive and Best Friends, two nationally known no-kill shelters, also give their cats a home-like environment.  Also, keep in mind that many no-kill rescue groups keep their cats in foster homes rather than in a traditional shelter.

 

I do appreciate your concern for your cats.  Certainly there are animal hoarders and people who get in over their heads who do *not* provide a good shelter environment.  That's why you really need to do your research if you feel you must surrender a pet.  No-kill rescue groups and shelters usually have a long waiting list for surrenders, so if you think you might go that route, contact them now and be prepared to wait for a spot to open.

 

Please don't move your cats outside if you have coyotes in your area.  We have a family member with severe allergies, so when a stray showed up at our house, we did our best to care for him outside.  We had him neutered and vaccinated, built him his own "room" in our garage, and loved and spoiled him as much as possible.  He was a very outdoor-savvy cat, but he'd been with us less than a year when he lost his life to a coyote.  It was one of the hardest things I've ever experienced.  I still miss him.  

 

If medication and other interventions don't help and you feel your cats would be safe outside, here are some shelter options: http://www.alleycat.org/ShelterGallery.  See also:  What Makes Good Shelter for Outdoor Cats

 

Good luck.