For a child who cannot take responsibility, WWYD?

[Halcyon]

My DH and I are trying to figure out how to best approach this. My older son, 11, has always had a very, very hard time getting himself out the door on time. He has a very hard time getting his things together, getting himself dressed, teeth brushed, face washed, room picked up or whatever before we need to leave the house for a given activity or appointment. I am beginning to feel that he RELIES on me getting upset as his "warning sign" to move more quickly. He has no internal ability to get himself ready to leave.

 

In discussing this with DH today, I thought of how this actually might extend into areas other than "getting ready to leave the house". He does not do his school work without prodding, nagging or cajoling from me, excepting a few instances. It definitely helps for him to have a checklist--that removes me from the equation. But he still has difficult not only with focusing on the task at hand and getting distracted by the dog, his brother, his cat, his playing cards--you name it. So I still need to be constantly tell him to keep on task. 

 

I am beginning to feel my very cajoling, nagging etc is his crutch (I think I talked abotu this in another thread about my kids). He relies on ME being hyper aware of where he has to be (piano, hockey, coop) and the work he needs to accomplish and therefore doesn't take any responsibility for it himself. I think it's time that he learn to be more responsible and DH and I are trying to figure out the best way to accomplish it.

 

There are a couple of issues here. I have no problem with reminding him that he needs to get ready for hockey. If he is not ready at departure time, we don't go. (Of course, he always is ready for hockey on time, just not other things, which indicates he CAN get ready if something is important enough). But when I have a doc appointment or a meeting or have to be at work and the sitter is meeting us there, he MUST be ready on time. ANd he rarely is. This morning, we both had a chiropractor appointment. He was playing Minecraft. We had 30 minutes til we had to leave, so I said "Please get off the computer. We need to leave in 30 minutes and you need to get dressed and teeth brushed." He understood. I went upstairs to get myself ready. I return in 20 minutes and he is still on the computer. I get upset and say, I gave you plenty of notice (and the one notice wasn't the first; he had been told all morning that he needed to be ready by 11:15) but you are still on the computer!!" So i say "I am going to wait in the car." 15 minutes later he is still not out of the house. I go in, and he is whapping the dog with his socks, not hurrying at all, just going slowly as though he hasn't a care in the world. I hustle him into the car, and give him a nice long useless lecture about being on time for things.,

 

Anyway, that's the "leaving the house" aspect that we need to change. The other aspect (which I mentioned above) is that I think this all stems from a lack of a sense of responsibility for his life--he just assumes that I am in charge and will tell him where he needs to be, nag him if he needes to hurry up, remind him about his Latin test, remind his of this and that....

 

At what point is it reasonable to expect a child to have a modicum of responsibility in the areas I outlined above? I am truly at my wits' end with him, PARTICULARLY with the "getting out of the house" part. I am frazzled and exhausted every time we have to be somewhere at a particular time. 

 

What's odd is, at this moment, he is outside watering the garden becaseu DH asked him to do it before dinner. I didn't remind him at all. He just did it. So he's not totally a lost cause. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have a son like that.  I don't nag at him anymore.  I just tell him to turn off the computer the first time I remind him and I wait for his obedience right then.  If he is all ready and has done every single chore, and every "getting ready to go out the door thing" and there is enough time, then I will let him get on the computer with the understanding that as soon as I tell him to go get in the car, he does so.  If he doesn't, then there will be no more computer time during the wait.  

[JFSinIL]

Take away his computer access unless he is actively doing school work on while you or hubby is in the room.  When he protests, calmly note that you saw how much it was preventing him from getting ready on time. And that other distractions may also disappear (do not name any - let him worry).

 

Be prepared to throw a coat on him and drag him half-naked to the car with the rest of his clothes in a bag if he is not ready to leave on time when you have to be somewhere.  Give ONE heads-up "We are leaving in xxx minutes" or "We are leaving the house at 10:15" and provide no further verbal reminders. 

 

I predict he will improve fairly rapidly.  Just do NOT lose your temper or nag.  Act like it is not your problem if he isn't ready on time (it really isn't) and if he gets embarrassed (etc.) again, not your problem. 

 

I would add telling him that if he can't be ready for when YOU need to go somewhere, then you might not care to take him to where HE wants to go - hockey - any longer. BUT - he probably needs the exercise, so do not verbalize that threat.  Let him imagine it might happen, though ;-)

[FriedClams]

This may be useless, but I have an 11 yo son, too. In the morning I was finding myself nagging too much to get chores done (for my liking). As an aside, I hate tv. I hate tv at any time, but ESPECIALLY in the morning. I would read here about people letting kids transition with TV and I would judge and cringe.... So, I devised a plan for my Tweens... I don't care when you get up but school starts at 8:30. Before then you need to do chores, eat, and 20 minutes of piano. IF you get up by 7-7:10, you will have time for one episode of Phineas and Ferb. If you don't eat before 8:30, you don't eat until lunch. No chores done? Nothing but chores after school until dinner. No piano - same deal. Piano until dinner. I helped them set an alarm on day one....

 

The result? I'm unnecessary 95% of the time before 8:30 now. Chores are done, and I don't even mention them any more. Piano is done. Phineas and Ferb are enjoyed daily, and usually with time to spare.

 

For my kids, it boiled down to them having a pay off, and being given the responsibility to handle it themselves. FWIW, there are few bonuses here (mine craft is for 30 minutes with permission after all school, chores, piano is done) until the work is done and inspected.

[Anne in CA]

I do agree with addressing this now. My oldest is still like this at 25. She is only ready on time for things that are very important to her. She will sleep late, watch TV, and be late for work or whatever else. When she was younger I thought she would grow out of this, then I thought she would change when she got disciplined for this at work, but she does not care. She worked for me for six weeks at our restaurant this summer and she was only five minutes early twice, a few times she was on time but mostly she was late. Every time she came to work she wanted to go to the bathroom and eat before starting work and she was constantly texting. Every time I talked to her about it she pretended to understand, but always felt that next time her excuse was good enough.

[zoobie]

Is it an executive function issue or 11 year old boy issue? I only have an 8 year old boy but I can imagine... Also have a kiddo with EF issues that are another level of torture. ;)

[myfunnybunch]

I feel your pain.

 

My eldest son is very much like this. It is both an attention/transition problem (which he cannot help) and a discipline/behavior problem (which he can). Because this is a behavior that is VERY challenging for him to control, he's nowhere near solving the problem, but we're making slooooooowww progress.

 

My husband and our eldest dd are also sloooooww movers and slow processors. I am quick! I have to remind myself to be patient, and to tell all of my slowpokes way in advance of actual time to go.

 

I made a deal with ds: I'll try my best not to nag and to be patient, but he has to do his part and try his best to respond quickly. I remind him of our deal often, when I start feeling impatient and naggish. He usually responds, "Oh yeah, sorry," and gets up. He still moves at a snail's pace, but he's moving.

 

I did some very direct teaching. My other children quickly and naturally learned that "Time to get ready," meant time to get ready so that when I said, "Time to go," we could go. Because, you know, it was time to GO. Dh and my slow ds ignored ready warnings, and started getting ready to go at "Time to go," so I did some very direct teaching around this. (With both of them!)

 

I never say, "Please get off the computer" and leave the room. Screens are so engrossing that ds cannot yet redirect his attention independently, at least not most of the time. I remember being like this as a teen with books. I finally had to tell my mom, "It doesn't matter what I agreed to while I am looking at my book. I didn't even hear what *I* was saying, much less what you were saying." It's the same with my boy and the computer.

 

If the computer is too distracting, he can't play. Period. Same with his book, his Legos, whatever. They go away.

 

Having to follow him around to make him get ready takes up my time and energy, time that I could be spending doing other things around the house. If I have to offer more than three reminders (more than I'd allow for another kid, but appropriate for him), he has to do a chore for me to help me out.

 

And I TRY, sometimes with gritted teeth, to be as patient as I can and give him some grace because he partly can't help it, and I do see some slow progress. We talk a lot about it taking hard work when you've got some challenges maintaining your attention, but just because it's difficult doesn't mean it's impossible or not his responsibility.

 

Oh, and EXERCISE. Exercise makes a difference. He can focus and attend better and moves more quickly when he gets some exercise in the morning.

 

Cat

[kbutton]

I feel your pain.

 

My eldest son is very much like this. It is both an attention/transition problem (which he cannot help) and a discipline/behavior problem (which he can). Because this is a behavior that is VERY challenging for him to control, he's nowhere near solving the problem, but we're making slooooooowww progress.

 

My husband and our eldest dd are also sloooooww movers and slow processors. I am quick! I have to remind myself to be patient, and to tell all of my slowpokes way in advance of actual time to go.

 

I made a deal with ds: I'll try my best not to nag and to be patient, but he has to do his part and try his best to respond quickly. I remind him of our deal often, when I start feeling impatient and naggish. He usually responds, "Oh yeah, sorry," and gets up. He still moves at a snail's pace, but he's moving.

 

I did some very direct teaching. My other children quickly and naturally learned that "Time to get ready," meant time to get ready so that when I said, "Time to go," we could go. Because, you know, it was time to GO. Dh and my slow ds ignored ready warnings, and started getting ready to go at "Time to go," so I did some very direct teaching around this. (With both of them!)

 

I never say, "Please get off the computer" and leave the room. Screens are so engrossing that ds cannot yet redirect his attention independently, at least not most of the time. I remember being like this as a teen with books. I finally had to tell my mom, "It doesn't matter what I agreed to while I am looking at my book. I didn't even hear what *I* was saying, much less what you were saying." It's the same with my boy and the computer.

 

If the computer is too distracting, he can't play. Period. Same with his book, his Legos, whatever. They go away.

 

Having to follow him around to make him get ready takes up my time and energy, time that I could be spending doing other things around the house. If I have to offer more than three reminders (more than I'd allow for another kid, but appropriate for him), he has to do a chore for me to help me out.

 

And I TRY, sometimes with gritted teeth, to be as patient as I can and give him some grace because he partly can't help it, and I do see some slow progress. We talk a lot about it taking hard work when you've got some challenges maintaining your attention, but just because it's difficult doesn't mean it's impossible or not his responsibility.

 

Oh, and EXERCISE. Exercise makes a difference. He can focus and attend better and moves more quickly when he gets some exercise in the morning.

 

Cat

 

I might print this out and cross-stitch it for my wall. I don't know about the OP, but I needed to hear this. It's very hard for me to do what I need to do to teach these skills to my EF challenged family. I am a fast processor, and the discrepancy between my processing and theirs is physically painful and mentally anguishing. I can't stand to stand around showing/waiting, etc. even though I have enormous patience for some other things that drive people crazy. I like the > three reminders = chore. LOVE IT.

 

Mine needs specific types of exercise to be able to focus, but he won't always do it. I am utterly sick of experiencing the natural consequences of this, but it's SO HARD to find a penalty that I can enforce that isn't more painful for me than it is for him.

 

[Luanne]

I do agree with addressing this now. My oldest is still like this at 25. She is only ready on time for things that are very important to her. She will sleep late, watch TV, and be late for work or whatever else. When she was younger I thought she would grow out of this, then I thought she would change when she got disciplined for this at work, but she does not care. She worked for me for six weeks at our restaurant this summer and she was only five minutes early twice, a few times she was on time but mostly she was late. Every time she came to work she wanted to go to the bathroom and eat before starting work and she was constantly texting. Every time I talked to her about it she pretended to understand, but always felt that next time her excuse was good enough.

 

I was just reading the responses as well because I, too, have a 25 year old daughter who is this way.  If she lived on her own, she would be late everywhere she went.  I think I am going to have her read this and see if that helps.  My daughter is ADHD, but I was hoping she would be a little more responsible as she got older. 

 

[sassenach]

Well, the event you described this morning was straight up disobedience.  How consistently do you discipline disobedience?  In our house, it's the hill we die on.  So, if I had come back 20 minutes after directly telling a child to get off the screens, and he was still on, he would be grounded from screens for a minimum of a week, very likely a month if it was a repeated issue.  

 

As for the bigger issue of internal motivation vs external, I think you need to choose external consequences that don't depend on your constant awareness.  What's his currency?  I see 2- screens and hockey, anything else?  I would create clear expectations of what must be done in order to have access to those things. 

 

Sometimes my husband lays things down that seem extreme (and bother me), but then turn out to be pretty motivating for our kids.  Example, ds kept carelessly leaving his retainer on the side of his plate, on the table, on a napkin, ect.  So dh tells him that the next time he leaves his retainer out of the case, no dessert for the rest of the year.  This was the first week of January.  So, internally, I rolled my eyes, because I'm thinking no dessert for a year is a crazy consequence to lob at the kid.  Well....guess who has a perfect record of retainer care?  Why did it work?  Because we would have followed through with it.  Now, 3 weeks later, he has formed a new habit that I expect will stick.

 

So, if you want to help your son with this, you need to choose some consequences, make them big enough to sting, and then follow through with them.  If you're not going to follow through, don't bother laying them out.  I really think that does more harm than good.

 

And, just to look at this from the other end- make sure your expectations are appropriate as far as length of time and number of items to execute on his own.  My 11 yo tops off at about an hour/3-4 items before he really needs me to check in on him, not necessarily to make him work, but just to break up the time and the tasks.  

[abba12]

My sister and i were both like this as tweens. Ultimately I think it is one of those transitioning into responsibility things. What worked for us was taking the time to intentionally teach organization, then removing mum and dad from the equation.

 

You would be informed once, maybe twice, about when to be ready. If you wernt ready you got in the car anyway (yes, sister did go shopping in her pjs once because of this. Plenty of odd looks but she was old enough that they were directed at her, not mum, and she got the picture)

 

We were never nagged about school after about 3rd or 4th grade. There were rewards for finishing early/on time (computer time, free time in the afternoon, special treat friday afternoon, movie in the evening, whatever) these were lost if you missed the pre-set deadline (finished by lunch, all work completed by friday afternoon, etc). There were also concequences for active time wasting, such as sitting at the table until school was finished, and actually mean it. Yes, this meamt a few times my sister sat at her desk until 10pm, a lot more times she was there until 5pm, and it was important that it was followed through and not just dropped at the end of school hours, those few days of 3hrs of school taking 14hrs are what taught her theres no point avoiding the inevitable. There were other natural concequences, if school wasnt finished before swimming lessons then you didnt swim, you took your books with you in the vain hope you might finish before it was time to leave the pool and get to swim.

 

Our schedule was not overwhelming, I could spend half an hour goofing off on break and still achieve my goals for the day without losing privliges. Once we earned trust and proved responsibility we were also allowed to change things to suit us, for example I left my science and history reading until the evenings and was still allowed afternoon privliges because I could be trusted to do that work afterwards. I was also, eventually, allowed to use instant message programs while working (and had this removed when I proved I couldnt do so responsibly)

 

I think the most important factor in all this was that there was no power struggle involved. It was simply a fact of life that schoolwork must be done. The concequences were not reactionary and discretional, they were concrete and known by all parties beforehand and I had been actively taught how to manage my time. Mum didnt nag, or get emotionally invested and upset, because it didnt effect her as such (things would have been different if it became bad enough to cause issues in reporting or testing). She just didnt let it get to her, my work was my responsibility and if I didnt do it I had to deal with the concequences.

 

It must have worked because my sister HATED school, often argued about it, wanted to be at ps, etc, but her work was always there to be corrected in the afternoon/at the end of the week.

 

A caveat, you cant really implement this until your child is working mostly independently, obviously its a lot more complicated if you are required to work one on one for each subject with the child.

[sassenach]

I think the most important factor in all this was that there was no power struggle involved. It was simply a fact of life that schoolwork must be done. The concequences were not reactionary and discretional, they were concrete and known by all parties beforehand and I had been actively taught how to manage my time. Mum didnt nag, or get emotionally invested and upset, because it didnt effect her as such (things would have been different if it became bad enough to cause issues in reporting or testing). She just didnt let it get to her, my work was my responsibility and if I didnt do it I had to deal with the concequences.

 

Yes, this! All of it, but especially the bolded. 

[gardenmom5]

rules were no one was on the computer until everything was ready. 

 

I'd simply say we are leaving at __ time.  be ready to go. give a five minutes warning.  if he's not washed, etc, he'll have to do that when you get home (and gee, too bad, so sad if it takes away from his fun later)  I have told my kids I'm happy to take them in their pj's.  they NEVER took me up on that.  if he misses breakfast, well, I guess he'll be faster next time so he's not hungry.

 

does he have an alarm?  put it on the other side of his room so he has to get out of bed to shut it off.  or there is the one that runs around the room and they have to chase it to shut it off.  maybe he needs more sleep and needs to go to bed earlier.  ;p.  then make sure he has his list to refer to of what needs doing.

 

you do want to get a handle on this now.  I recall one story of a girl who missed a major college exam because her dad didn't wake her up . . . . um, you're in college and you don't get yourself up?

[Julie Smith]

I haven't read everything. 

 

But recently I have had trouble with the boys getting off the comptuer when I ask them to. They always needed to just complete one more thing. 

 

What I did (after telling them this in advance) was set a timer. I would warn them "you have15 minutes, and then you have to be off." Then when the timer beeps every minutes they are on the computer is a minute they owe me. As in you played 10 minutes to long, you get to do whatever chore I ask you to for 10 minutes. 

[Ellie]

Is it an executive function issue or 11 year old boy issue? I only have an 8 year old boy but I can imagine... Also have a kiddo with EF issues that are another level of torture. ;)

 

Not an 11yo boy issue. I promise you it is not.

[Ellie]

I have a very dear friend who is like this. And so are her children. I love spending time with them in general, but if we have to be out of the house by a certain time, I just go sit in a corner and read a book because I cannot bear to watch them totally lose function and direction. The younger ds has joined the Air Force; probably he has been cured of lollygagging around by now, lol.

 

I don't think waiting 20 minutes to check with him when you have told him to do something is a good idea (that's what my friend would do: send her dss off on a task, then go do her own thing and not check on the dc for 20 minutes). Seems to me that if you tell him to get off the computer (and it is certainly allowable to *tell* him to get off instead of *asking* him to), and he's still there in five minutes, then some sort of discipline should accrue because of disobedience. At the least, it should be taking him gently by the arm and helping him walk away to do whatever it is he's supposed to do.

[Garga]

Didn't have a chance to read all the replies, but here's what people I know did:

 

They planned ahead of time that one parent would be able to stay home and the other would be able to go. They announced to the three children, "Time to go!" You may give some sort of warning about when it's time to go or whatever you need to train him to be able to do.

 

Any child not ready was left behind with one parent.

 

The other children went to wherever they were going AND GOT ICE CREAM. They got ice cream in time for them to STILL BE EATING IT WHEN THEY CAME HOME! (Sorry for the cap locks, I'm in a goofy mood.)

 

They said that it didn't take long for them to all be ready when it was time to leave.

[ErinE]

My DS11 was like this, and still a bit is. It absolutely stinks. It's helped for me to make sure I'm completely ready to go 30 minutes before I need to leave; I then babysit him for the remaining time. On some occasions, I've followed him around telling him the things he must do, "Brush your teeth, brush your hair, get your socks, put your dirty clothes in the hamper." He really dislikes me doing this. I just tell him that I wouldn't tell him what to do if I could trust he would do it on his own. Doing this has helped him move a bit faster, but I've just come to the realization that in order for us to get out the door, I must give myself time to double check that everything that needs to be done, is done.

[Wilma]

I'd work on making it HIS issue. If he's not ready when you have to leave, he'll go without his things or without the clothes he wishes he'd changed into or without breakfast or whatver. The leaving time needs to be inflexible and announced in advance. Let him deal with the fallout. You might have to explain to a coach or teacher what you're up to but there's no reason for you to responsible for getting his ducks in a row.

[catz]

I have a kid like this that just turned 13. Is this uncommon for this age in a boy? I don't think so?

 

He is slowly getting SOMEWHAT better. Tech time is his currency and if my kid would have had me waiting in the car for 15 minutes, that would be a week of Minecraft down the drain over here. I do allow natural consequences to occur, but we rarely get to that point now. If I tell him to get off the computer, I do not walk away until he's off.

[Halcyon]

My DS11 was like this, and still a bit is. It absolutely stinks. It's helped for me to make sure I'm completely ready to go 30 minutes before I need to leave; I then babysit him for the remaining time. On some occasions, I've followed him around telling him the things he must do, "Brush your teeth, brush your hair, get your socks, put your dirty clothes in the hamper." He really dislikes me doing this. I just tell him that I wouldn't tell him what to do if I could trust he would do it on his own. Doing this has helped him move a bit faster, but I've just come to the realization that in order for us to get out the door, I must give myself time to double check that everything that needs to be done, is done.

This is what I need to do. Double time, which is so annoying. I need to get ME ready early and then monitor him. I get so ticked off when I think I need to do this, kwim? He's 11 for Pete's sake. I know, I know, if that's what he needs, I need to do t.it just ticks me off. Like Wendy I am a fast processor. I move fast, I get things done, boom boom boom. And my son just dawdles like nobody's business. I think it's a processing thing AND an obedience thing.

 

I am just so tired.

[Halcyon]

I have a kid like this that just turned 13. Is this uncommon for this age in a boy? I don't think so?

 

He is slowly getting SOMEWHAT better. Tech time is his currency and if my kid would have had me waiting in the car for 15 minutes, that would be a week of Minecraft down the drain over here. I do allow natural consequences to occur, but we rarely get to that point now. If I tell him to get off the computer, I do not walk away until he's off.

He has no computer time for a week. I just have had it.

[Halcyon]

I'd work on making it HIS issue. If he's not ready when you have to leave, he'll go without his things or without the clothes he wishes he'd changed into or without breakfast or whatver. The leaving time needs to be inflexible and announced in advance. Let him deal with the fallout. You might have to explain to a coach or teacher what you're up to but there's no reason for you to responsible for getting his ducks in a row.

You know, people say this, but I dont really get it. Lets say we are going to my office and he needs to bring history and math and science. And he doesn't have them ready. So...he doesn't do his schoolwork? Or he has to do it that evening when I am too tired to help him? Or he is going to the doctors and he needs to brush his teeth before leaving...but he doesn't. So...the consequence is bad breath? Trust me, he wouldn't care and would be happy to go without brushing. He gets himself ready for HIS stuff: hockey, guitar..he is READY. guitar in hand, hockey gear in car. It's when it's for someone other than him, or when I have to get to work that he is sloooow and unprepared.

[Halcyon]

I haven't read everything.

 

But recently I have had trouble with the boys getting off the comptuer when I ask them to. They always needed to just complete one more thing.

 

What I did (after telling them this in advance) was set a timer. I would warn them "you have15 minutes, and then you have to be off." Then when the timer beeps every minutes they are on the computer is a minute they owe me. As in you played 10 minutes to long, you get to do whatever chore I ask you to for 10 minutes.

I set timers, and he gets chores. It hasn't addressed the underlying behavior,

[Halcyon]

I'd work on making it HIS issue. If he's not ready when you have to leave, he'll go without his things or without the clothes he wishes he'd changed into or without breakfast or whatver. The leaving time needs to be inflexible and announced in advance. Let him deal with the fallout. You might have to explain to a coach or teacher what you're up to but there's no reason for you to responsible for getting his ducks in a row.

He doesn't care what he's wearing. H doesn't care about breakfast. H doesn't care if he hasn't combed his hair or brushed his teeth. He doesn't care if his backpack is missing things. He relies on ME to care about these thing for him. But he wouldn't care if DIDNT remind him!

[Ellie]

I have a kid like this that just turned 13. Is this uncommon for this age in a boy? I don't think so?

 

 

In general, it isn't very useful to blame behavior on age or gender, because every unacceptable behavior we've discussed here has been perpetrated by every child of every gender of every age, lol.

[Halcyon]

Well I guess what I'd try to do is have everything that can be ready ahead of time ready. For example, showering done the night before. Stuff gathered the night before. Clothes laid out the night before.

 

My 11 year old isn't much different. I feel like he would forget to breath if I didn't remind him sometimes. I was never like that. My husband said he was like that. What did his mother do? Nothing. He just ended up leaving the house forgetting stuff and disheveled (and dealt with the consequences of that). She didn't take that personally. I tend to take that personally so I have a hard time letting that happen.

Ya, but this doesn't address his disobedience or his inability to get his sh@t together when he needs to, in a timely fashion.

[Halcyon]

Well, the event you described this morning was straight up disobedience. How consistently do you discipline disobedience? In our house, it's the hill we die on. So, if I had come back 20 minutes after directly telling a child to get off the screens, and he was still on, he would be grounded from screens for a minimum of a week, very likely a month if it was a repeated issue.

 

As for the bigger issue of internal motivation vs external, I think you need to choose external consequences that don't depend on your constant awareness. What's his currency? I see 2- screens and hockey, anything else? I would create clear expectations of what must be done in order to have access to those things.

 

Sometimes my husband lays things down that seem extreme (and bother me), but then turn out to be pretty motivating for our kids. Example, ds kept carelessly leaving his retainer on the side of his plate, on the table, on a napkin, ect. So dh tells him that the next time he leaves his retainer out of the case, no dessert for the rest of the year. This was the first week of January. So, internally, I rolled my eyes, because I'm thinking no dessert for a year is a crazy consequence to lob at the kid. Well....guess who has a perfect record of retainer care? Why did it work? Because we would have followed through with it. Now, 3 weeks later, he has formed a new habit that I expect will stick.

 

So, if you want to help your son with this, you need to choose some consequences, make them big enough to sting, and then follow through with them. If you're not going to follow through, don't bother laying them out. I really think that does more harm than good.

 

And, just to look at this from the other end- make sure your expectations are appropriate as far as length of time and number of items to execute on his own. My 11 yo tops off at about an hour/3-4 items before he really needs me to check in on him, not necessarily to make him work, but just to break up the time and the tasks.

Yes. He needs consequences for sure.

[Halcyon]

My DS11 was like this, and still a bit is. It absolutely stinks. It's helped for me to make sure I'm completely ready to go 30 minutes before I need to leave; I then babysit him for the remaining time. On some occasions, I've followed him around telling him the things he must do, "Brush your teeth, brush your hair, get your socks, put your dirty clothes in the hamper." He really dislikes me doing this. I just tell him that I wouldn't tell him what to do if I could trust he would do it on his own. Doing this has helped him move a bit faster, but I've just come to the realization that in order for us to get out the door, I must give myself time to double check that everything that needs to be done, is done.

I do this. It drives ME crazy. I have things i need to do, like get ready for work, put dinner in the crockpot, walk the dogs. It is difficult for me to follow him around every single day. If I need to do t, I will. I will need to rearrange things, and give myself an extra 30 minutes daily.

[poppy]

This one is easy. No Minecraft if he's going to be a jerk. Playing with the dog when YOU need him to get ready, but being able to get ready to go on time when it suits him = being a jerk. Willfully ignoring or disobeying you repeatedly = being a jerk.

 

I'm surprised to see the thread title â€cannot take responsibility" when objectively it's pretty clear that he is capable but willful and/ or lazy and/ or getting away with as much as possible (like many or maybe even most kids that age!)

[Halcyon]

So, just musing aloud here... What would happen if YOU weren't ready when it was time for hockey or guitar? Would it phase him in the least? Would he have to remind YOU? Hmmm.

Ys, and this happens with DH. Ds has a game every Saturday at 830. He is ready to go, gear on, helmet on skates on, stick in car at 8. He is normally waiting on Dh who also moves slowly. Dh Usually gets him there JUST on time, and ds Gets upset but it has never gotten to the point of actually missing the game. I know he freaks out when he is late. He just doesn't seem to translate this to how he behaves when we need to be somewhere, kwim? I think because he fully believes we WILL get him there, and that in the end, it's on us to get him there and we do (we do have the car keys, after all.)

[Halcyon]

This one is easy. No Minecraft if he's going to be a jerk. Playing with the dog when YOU need him to get ready, but being able to get ready to go on time when it suits him = being a jerk. Willfully ignoring or disobeying you repeatedly = being a jerk.

 

I'm surprised to see the thread title â€cannot take responsibility" when objectively it's pretty clear that he is capable but willful and/ or lazy and/ or getting away with as much as possible (like many or maybe even most kids that age!)

Any solutions? Or just name-calling?

[Halcyon]

He already has no screen time for a week.

[PhotoGal]

I would sit down with him and have him make a plan as to how he can be ready (he can plan 10 minutes for getting dressed, 5 minutes to brush teeth, etc.). Have him set the timer for each step (you give him one 20 minute warning or whatever he decides he needs). If the timer goes off and he hasn't finished, that is his cue to hurry before the next timer goes off.

 

Does he have a calendar or planner? Maybe that would help him know what to expect from his day/week.

 

If possible, I would avoid screen time until the end of the school day (and after all appointments, etc.). I have seen a definite difference in ds's attention span after screen time - it lasts for awhile after he stops.

 

My kids aren't at this age, but I could see how this could happen. It is tough because sometimes it is an attention problem that is not "on purpose," but something that still needs to be addressed. It is frustrating for sure!

[poppy]

Any solutions? Or just name-calling?

Wow, ok. No need to go into attack model I was agreeing with you about consequences. The solution is to remove the screen-distraction-entertainment.

[PhotoGal]

I don't think it is related to him disrespecting you (or "being a jerk"). Some people really do have attention issues. They are not doing it on purpose. That is not to say that the situation can't be improved, but it is going to take time. In the meantime, it will probably be frustrating!

 

You don't want him to get out the door on time just so you don't get mad (that won't work once he is out of the house). It is going to take a long-term plan of building up these skills. I wish I knew how to do that! Maybe someone here knows of a good book that helps kids get more organized/independent.

[poppy]

I was assuming it wasnt an executive fuction or attention issue because he gets himself ready for hockey on time on own, because that's an activity he enjoys.

[EmilyGF]

Keep a chart of how late he makes you for your appointments. Ya know, add a sticker for every five minutes. Then, on hockey day, sit down with a cup of coffee and a gossip rag at the time you are supposed to leave, and tell him you'll wait for however long those stickers indicate.

 

I'm joking... kinda.

 

My FIL is like this at 65. I'm working on this area with a certain child in my family who is clueless - not rebellious, but clueless.

 

I do think someone who doesn't have a concept of how time works shouldn't be doing video games, but I'm strongly biased against them because so many kids I went to college with failed out ("flamed") due to video games. Video games and alcohol were the top two causes of failing out of college.

 

Emily

[Alice]

My 10 yr old ds was having somewhat similar problems, although for him it was more forgetting stuff rather than not being ready. He’d forget his piano bag for piano, his baseball glove for baseball. One time he forgot to put on his swimsuit for swimming. His excuse was that I had told him to get his “swimming stuff†and that didn’t include a swimsuit. Sigh. 

 

I started charging him $5 for anything that I had to either remind him of or that I had to go back for. I will tell him once, “We’re leaving for swimming in 15 minutes, get your stuff together.†Then when we are at the door, I’ll ask “Do you have your towel, goggles, water bottle, fins, and are you WEARING A SWIMSUIT!†If he isn’t and has to go get the thing, he owes me $5. If I forget to ask and we get to something and he has forgotten something I will only go back and get it if it effects other people (we live really close to most of his activities so I can go back, but I get tired of doing it). So I’ll go back for a baseball glove because that effects the whole team. But he owes me $5. I won’t go back for piano books, he has to tell his teacher he forgot, apologize and deal with the consequences. 

 

It’s worked great. We started it last fall and he only had to pay me a few times. Money is a big motivator for him so he quickly didn’t want to pay me and became much better at going through that mental checklist. 

 

Maybe you could find a similar way. For every 5 minutes you are late, he owes you $5...or something like that. Or everytime you have to remind him beyond the first time there is a consequence. 

 

My same son is also kind of a slowpoke, especially in the am. What I have learned with him is that he needs to start early. So I would agree with others that said at the 30 minute mark to just say “Time to get off the computer and get ready.†rather than leaving it up to him to realize he needs to be monitoring his time. 

 

Also, I’m not sure if you think he has ADD kind of tendencies, some of what you describe made me think of that. I know several adults with ADD and what has greatly helped them has been to make checklists of what they have to do or have before going certain places. The checklist could be by the door and you could tell him at the 30 minute mark to go and look at it and do what is on it. 

[Farrar]

I agree with not just telling him to get ready but instead watching him stand up and start the process before going off to get ready yourself.  I get that you shouldn't have to do this.  The verbal reminder should be enough.  But it seems like it's worth doing if you want to decrease your stress and actually get out the door.

 

I know he's off screens for awhile, but I'll just add that this is part of why we don't do screens in the mornings ever now.  It's just too hard to get off the screen and go do something else without some wiggle room.  So unless it's something specifically for school, all our screens happen only after all the activities are done for the day.  Some days, that means very little screens.  But that's okay (after all, some days, it means there's plenty of screen time when everything is done and there's no where else to go).

 

I would also require a consequence if he does delay you.  I think 11 yo is old enough to get the basic idea of "you take my time, you have to pay me back somehow."  And I'd look for ways he can give you time when he uses your time like that.  For example, doing one of your chores.

[JFSinIL]

You know, people say this, but I dont really get it. Lets say we are going to my office and he needs to bring history and math and science. And he doesn't have them ready. So...he doesn't do his schoolwork? Or he has to do it that evening when I am too tired to help him? Or he is going to the doctors and he needs to brush his teeth before leaving...but he doesn't. So...the consequence is bad breath? Trust me, he wouldn't care and would be happy to go without brushing. He gets himself ready for HIS stuff: hockey, guitar..he is READY. guitar in hand, hockey gear in car. It's when it's for someone other than him, or when I have to get to work that he is sloooow and unprepared.

 

For every time he does this - he misses a drive to his hockey or guitar  or whatever he wants.  Let him stand there, hockey stick or guitar in hand, and when he asks why aren't you getting up to take him, you point out he didn't get ready for YOU on time, so, sorry, you aren't ready for HIM.  Or however you want to put it.

[Halcyon]

For every time he does this - he misses a drive to his hockey or guitar or whatever he wants. Let him stand there, hockey stick or guitar in hand, and when he asks why aren't you getting up to take him, you point out he didn't get ready for YOU on time, so, sorry, you aren't ready for HIM. Or however you want to put it.

You don't think that's kind of.....I don't know....retaliatory? Eye for an eye sort of thing?

[Halcyon]

I agree with not just telling him to get ready but instead watching him stand up and start the process before going off to get ready yourself. I get that you shouldn't have to do this. The verbal reminder should be enough. But it seems like it's worth doing if you want to decrease your stress and actually get out the door.

 

I know he's off screens for awhile, but I'll just add that this is part of why we don't do screens in the mornings ever now. It's just too hard to get off the screen and go do something else without some wiggle room. So unless it's something specifically for school, all our screens happen only after all the activities are done for the day. Some days, that means very little screens. But that's okay (after all, some days, it means there's plenty of screen time when everything is done and there's no where else to go).

 

I would also require a consequence if he does delay you. I think 11 yo is old enough to get the basic idea of "you take my time, you have to pay me back somehow." And I'd look for ways he can give you time when he uses your time like that. For example, doing one of your chores.

He is only allowed screens Saturday morning for 2 hours after he wakes up. schoolwork excepted. It just happens we had a doctors appointment today.

 

I am seriously considering banning all screens.

[EKS]

I do agree with addressing this now. My oldest is still like this at 25. She is only ready on time for things that are very important to her. She will sleep late, watch TV, and be late for work or whatever else. When she was younger I thought she would grow out of this, then I thought she would change when she got disciplined for this at work, but she does not care. She worked for me for six weeks at our restaurant this summer and she was only five minutes early twice, a few times she was on time but mostly she was late. Every time she came to work she wanted to go to the bathroom and eat before starting work and she was constantly texting. Every time I talked to her about it she pretended to understand, but always felt that next time her excuse was good enough.

 

I fired a person who acted like this.

[EKS]

You don't think that's kind of.....I don't know....retaliatory? Eye for an eye sort of thing?

 

No, it is a natural consequence.  Not ready on time, no go.  Or whatever.

[sassenach]

You know, people say this, but I dont really get it. Lets say we are going to my office and he needs to bring history and math and science. And he doesn't have them ready. So...he doesn't do his schoolwork? Or he has to do it that evening when I am too tired to help him? Or he is going to the doctors and he needs to brush his teeth before leaving...but he doesn't. So...the consequence is bad breath? Trust me, he wouldn't care and would be happy to go without brushing. He gets himself ready for HIS stuff: hockey, guitar..he is READY. guitar in hand, hockey gear in car. It's when it's for someone other than him, or when I have to get to work that he is sloooow and unprepared.

 

Based on this, I would say that this isn't about a processing issue.  It's a respect and obedience issue.  

I do this. It drives ME crazy. I have things i need to do, like get ready for work, put dinner in the crockpot, walk the dogs. It is difficult for me to follow him around every single day. If I need to do t, I will. I will need to rearrange things, and give myself an extra 30 minutes daily.

 

I think this is the wrong approach.  This is what you're already doing and it's not helping him. 

 

You don't think that's kind of.....I don't know....retaliatory? Eye for an eye sort of thing?

Well, if done like that it is.  If it's done in a calm, explained in advanced sort of way, I think it's entirely appropriate.  

 

"Son, for every thing you make me late to, you will be brought 15 minutes late to your events.  I will not nag you.  You will either be ready to go when I have to leave, or you will be late for guitar and hockey."

 

If you don't follow through, it'll never work.  If you don't use a consequence that is meaningful, the day will come when the world will give him one.

[Halcyon]

No, it is a natural consequence. Not ready on time, no go. Or whatever.

Right Kai, and that's fine for HIS stuff. But I need To be at work, need to make my appointments, need to shop, need to get to the library before closing...whatever it may be. That's when it's hard.

 

I implemented the "three repeated requests equals chore" tonight. At least the dishes are done, right?

 

I just downloaded smart but scattered. I can't say he has full blown EFD but certainly he has aspects of it-distractibility, Inability to finish tasks, inability to follow through, inability to hold more than 2-3 verbal commands in his head. Distractibility is huge.

[Halcyon]

Thanks all. I am trying to determine how much of this is intentional disobedience, and how much is processing. I don't think it's 100% disobedience. More like 60 /40. He really does have problems with following commands or following through in general.

[Ellie]

Thanks all. I am trying to determine how much of this is intentional disobedience, and how much is processing. I don't think it's 100% disobedience. More like 60 /40. He really does have problems with following commands or following through in general.

 

If he does have problems with that, all the more reason not to leave him alone for 20 minutes when you have told him to do something, KWIM?

[Amy in NH]

I'm sorry to say that I think you need to let him fail.  Don't nag.  Just tell him one time.  And if he doesn't comply then let natural consequences take over.  If he's not ready on time, then he's either late or he misses his outing.  If he doesn't get his schoolwork done, then he doesn't get whatever relaxing reward he would normally get at the end of the day.  In our house it is computer time - computer comes after schoolwork.  Figure out what his currency is, and then make it contingent on getting the work done.  That puts the onus on him, and he'll feel the consequence if he doesn't follow through.