Parental involvement: conventional wisdom could be wrong

[stripe]

http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2013/12/03/parents-arent-talking-enough-about-post-high-school-plans/

 

(excerpt of brief interview with researcher Keith Robinson)

 

If there is a single pillar of unchallenged, conventional wisdom in education theory, it’s that parental involvement is the key to a child’s success in school. Certainly, University of Texas professor Keith Robinson had no doubt about it when he and fellow sociologist Angel Harris decided to investigate exactly how that involvement played out. But not after plowing through the rich data provided by the U.S.’sNational Center for Education Statistics (surveys of 25,000 students) and Child Development Supplement (family questionnaires). The effects of parental involvement in schooling, write Robinson and Harris in The Broken Compass, are mostly inconsequential—sometimes even negative.

Q: This wasn’t the result you were expecting, was it?

A: I have to say I certainly was surprised, given the view of the public and the government. There is such an overwhelmingly positive sentiment toward more parental engagement, even dating back to the ’70s. And a good deal of federal dollars is spent promoting it. But things jumped out at us. Affluent children with good academic success do have involved parents, it’s just that that’s not the reason they have success. The relationship of parental involvement at the school—which varies greatly over racial and especially economic groups—never yielded positive estimates even one-third of the time. At home, where the class and racial differences are narrower, it was a bit more positive. Overall, only approximately 15-20 per cent of the involvement was positive, roughly 30 per cent negative and the rest statistically insigniï¬cant. A big surprise was that Asian-American parents—the model minority whose kids are doing so well in school—hardly did any of these involvement measures, another thing that sort of flipped conventional thinking on its head.

....

Effective parental involvement might, in fact, be in reach, but we are stuck in conventional ways of thinking about parents’ roles. What we need in this country is the next step—explaining to educators and parents that parents matter on a much more intangible, abstract level. That has to do with their effectiveness in communicating to their children how essential education is to the kids’ lives. What’s ironic to me is that even though we went through a ton of analyses and ended up showing that most involvement was unimportant or negative, what I came away thinking was that parents actually do matter. They do matter.

....

Q: What parental involvement is helpful?

A: The most consistent, positive parental involvement activity is talking to your kids about their post-high school plans, and this one stood out because it was, pretty much for every racial, ethnic and socio-economic group, positively related to a number of academic outcomes—such as attendance and marks. What this might be hinting at is the psychological component that comes from kids internalizing your message: school is important. It may be with these conversations parents are connecting kids’ current education—whether their children are in Grade 2, Grade 3 or high school—to a future, and the children are able to see that bridge. That ï¬nding was the most signiï¬cant.

Q: What else is there, in a positive sense?

A: Reading to your child before the school years is one of those things that’s always a good idea. It’s one of the parental involvement activities that also has to do with language development, and you’ve got a number of other studies that talk about kids who are very young and sort of just hearing language from their parents, how that promotes brain development and increases vocabulary which increases ability to learn.

....

Parents differ—there are vast cultural, socio-economic and socio-demographic differences in their backgrounds and circumstances—so how do we customize our advice? The same thing is not going to work for everyone. I actually think Asian Americans—I’m generalizing, but on average—Asian Americans might be doing the best job of communicating this [that schooling is important] compared to all the rest of us.

[lorisuewho]

This is really interesting.

 

I while back I read a book on Amish education that Hunter had recommended, and it struck me as I was reading through the book how Uninvolved the parents were. A few fathers run the board of education that selects the teachers and approves the textbook buying or building upkeep, etc. The mothers supply some cups or once and a while a hot meal. But other than this the leave it up to the teacher to do her thing.

 

After reading this book I started to subscribe to an Amish teacher newsletter. Again, the teachers place very little emphasis on parent involvement. The teachers themselves take full responsibility for the situation. Although like the article you linked states, I think the families convey a message of responsibility and hard-work that outshines a lack of physical involvement.

[alef]

OK, so the two things mentioned as negatives were homework help and punitive responses to poor grades. Those both make sense to me--a parent who provides a supportive atmosphere for homework is one thing, a parent who practically does the homework for the child, or who never allows the child to take responsibility for whether homework gets done or not, is another entirely. I learned a lot from my failures in school, I was and felt entirely responsible for my success or failure. I have seen situations where kids had a lot of support through high school, then got into college and sunk because they didn't know how to function without all of the scaffolding they had had at home. 

 

As far as punishment for bad grades goes, my own experience has been that punitive responses with regard to anything are more discouraging than motivating to a child. Punishing a child for failing in school is like seeing a child floundering in the water and punishing him for not swimming. Yelling at him or grounding him or whatever is not going to help him improve his swimming skills...

[Wheres Toto]

Interesting article.  With  my oldest I wasn't very involved in her school.  I worked full time (sometimes part time and/or school as well).  She had an after school activity that led to her having to be responsible for getting her own homework done. 

 

I did always emphasize doing her best in school.  She always knew if her grades suffered, her activity (dance) would be cut-down since school was more important.  But I also didn't make a big deal about grades IF I thought she was truly trying her best.  My view - just about everybody has a subject that gives them a little more trouble than others, and often a concept needs a little bit of extra time to be understood.  So, my dd could get a C (or even a D) for a marking period but if I knew she was doing what she could to gain understanding (working with the teacher, extra studying, tutoring, whatever) and bring up the grade, I wouldn't punish her for it.  We would work on what needed to be done.

 

She's now a sophomore in college, has made Dean's List every semester.  She's doing a great job balancing school, working, friends and socializing.  It's a balance she was already in control of for years before she went to college.

 

Of course, my sample size is 1, and she always had goals that meant doing well in school/going to college, so maybe a lot of it is a personality thing.

[regentrude]

Yep. The emphasis on parental involvement in school is something I found very strange, not having grown up in the US. Back home, we have the occasional parent meeting once or twice per school year, all parents together with the homeroom teacher, and parents have to sign test grades, but unless there are problems, that is the extent of communication. It works just fine.

 

I find it important for education that parents are involved in their children's lives, create a stimulating atmosphere that values education, make sure children are ready to learn when they go to school. One can be an involved parent, deeply caring about the child's education without being involved in the school. A family culture that values education is what makes a student successful, not a parent micromanaging school work.

 

When my kids were in school, I tried to let the teachers do their job and treated them like professionals who know what they are doing. I can't imagine being a teacher and having parents in the classroom every day, especially parents who are trying to tell me how I am supposed to do my job.

 

ETA: I find it rather obvious that parental help with homework is counterproductive. The teacher gets incorrect feedback about the student's abilities (which in turn informs the teacher's teaching), and the student does not get the opportunity to struggle with the material to the degree necessary for success (besides the effect of incompetent parents trying to "help" mentioned in the article).

[rdj2027]

Thank you for posting this article.  Like Regentrude I grew up in Germany and the concept of "parental involvement" has stymied me for a long time.  None of our parents were involved in our school life but it was always made clear that school was our "work" and important.  I thought of my parents generation (born in the early 40ies), the fathers were dead, the widowed mothers had greater concerns than a school grade or homework and yet, the generation as a whole was/is fairly well educated.  Same goes for my grandparent's generation (born prior to WW1)

 

I have been wondering for a long time how my experiences and observations go together with the notion that parental involvement in school is the reason for higher achievement.

[boscopup]

I've wondered about the parental involvement at school. My parents taught me to value education, but they really didn't do anything with me during homework. They'd answer questions (my dad helped me get past a stuck point in calculus one time), but homework in general was my responsibility, even in elementary school. Even walking to school on time was left up to me after Kindergarten. (we lived behind the school, so I just had to walk across the school field that bordered our backyard)

 

My parents certainly weren't in the classroom or anything like that. Today's practices are strange to me, and I grew up in the US. I think most of my friends had similar, hands off parents (school wise).

[In The Great White North]

The article doesn't give the pertinent results.  They say they queried schools and parents about 63 different measures of parental involvement, then went on to say that "  Asian-American parents—the model minority whose kids are doing so well in school—hardly did any of these involvement measures" but never said what they Asian-American parents DID do.  Nor did it give the list.  I suspect that a lot of parents would love to have the research proving that selling wrapping paper did not make their kids more successful in school!

 

 

 

The most consistent, positive parental involvement activity is talking to your kids about their post-high school plans

 

While it is not surprising that the parents of kids who were successful in school did this, it can hardly be the key to all their success.  It's just the tip of the iceberg. The Asian-American parents I know (and the Tiger Mom) did a lot more than merely discuss post-high school plans. 

 

He didn't ask the right questions (or didn't want to share the real results with us).

 

 

 

[stripe]

The article doesn't give the pertinent results.  They say they queried schools and parents about 63 different measures of parental involvement, then went on to say that "  Asian-American parents—the model minority whose kids are doing so well in school—hardly did any of these involvement measures" but never said what they Asian-American parents DID do.  Nor did it give the list.  I suspect that a lot of parents would love to have the research proving that selling wrapping paper did not make their kids more successful in school!

 

 

While it is not surprising that the parents of kids who were successful in school did this, it can hardly be the key to all their success.  It's just the tip of the iceberg. The Asian-American parents I know (and the Tiger Mom) did a lot more than merely discuss post-high school plans. 

 

He didn't ask the right questions (or didn't want to share the real results with us).

This is just a quick article in Maclean's; there is an entire book about it. I couldn't find any other articles about it; on the publisher's site, the only interview is this one. Furthermore, the book has yet to be published, so I can't actually find a copy to read.

 

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674725102&content=toc

Table of contents

 

• 1. The Role of Parental Involvement in Children’s Schooling
• 2. Parental Involvement and Social Class
• 3. Implications of Parental Involvement at Home by Social Class
• 4. Implications of Parental Involvement at School by Social Class
• 5. Academic Orientation among Parents at Home by Race
• 6. Effectiveness of Parental Involvement at Home by Race
• 7. Parental Involvement at School by Race
• 8. Implications of Parental Involvement at School by Race
• 9. Parenting and Poor Achievement
• 10. Setting the Stage for Academic Success
• 11. Conclusion
• Appendix A: Sources of Data
• Appendix B: Methodology
• Appendix C: Descriptive Tables
• Appendix D: Guide of “Effects†by Race
• Notes
• References

 

Amazon page allows you to look inside:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Broken-Compass-Involvement-Childrens/dp/0674725107/

[LaughingCat]

Here's a paper by the author:

RACE, PARENTAL RESPONSES TO INADEQUATE …

paa2008.princeton.edu/papers/80138 Â· PDF file

[regentrude]

Parent's involvement at school is about building community capital. I don't know any mum who volunteers at her child's school so they will achieve higher scores.

 

But why do US schools need this massive amount of parental volunteering in the first place, and does it actually accomplish anything?

 

In my home country, parent volunteers would be accompanying the class on a field trip or overnight trip as extra chaperones, and help with the Christmas/end of school year parties. But there is no tradition of parents helping with instruction in the classroom during school hours - the teacher is handling this.

I have seen no evidence that the parent volunteering here causes a better educational outcome.

[regentrude]

I have no idea about the US. In Australia, it builds strong and supportive school communities, which is a good in its own right.

 

What constitutes a "strong and supportive school community"? I am not sure what you mean by this.

All I expect from school is to provide the kids with a good education.

[SKL]

It doesn't really surprise me.  My parents enrolled me in school and told me to get up and go there every morning.  I did the rest.  I was a good student and have had a reasonably successful life.  Sad to think that my parent's level of involvement would be viewed as practically neglect by many today.

 

I find myself often conflicted regarding how much involvement I should be having with my own kids.  One of my kids struggles and I feel a lot of pressure to help her.  But there have been indications that, if she studies on her own, as long as she really puts in the time, she can do well.  I'd love to switch our focus from the school's curriculum to different afterschooling materials that I have.  (Is afterschooling / enrichment also a no-no per the article?)

 

Now if I can be strong enough to withstand the teachers' pressure and not cave to it....

[Pen]

It is possible that all the data is coming up with are correlations, not causes.

 

For example: My local ps uses parent helpers, but the people available to do that are generally not the ones who are busy doing things like being a professor or doctor. They are most likely a farmer or logger's wife in this area, who is available to volunteer in the school. And no matter how smart, the children of those families are less likely to go on to higher education--if that is the article's idea of the goal--than the children of the professor or doctor. (ETA while otoh, the professor or doctor's children would be more likely to hear discussion about going onto further education after high school and so on. One should perhaps add that until fairly recently in this area, a man directly out of high school could go into logging and within a few years be making $60K. That is no longer true, but the changes in what to do after high school are slow in following the economic changes. I have friends in this situation, but whose husbands then lost jobs as the world of logging changed.) I do not know how many places other versions of this would exist, but I would think that also in cities it would be the case that dual working parents with demanding jobs or single working parents would find it hard to do some of the school related involvement activities. 

 

The private Waldorf school that my son was in for a while essentially demanded a huge amount of parental participation, even more extensively, as do the charter Montessori and private Montessori in our area--where there can even be part of the official contract requirement that the parents will do thus and such number of community hours for the school, such that the work obligations of parents to their jobs makes the children who go there a different group than might be able to go to schools that required less intense parent involvement at the school. 

[mommymilkies]

What constitutes a "strong and supportive school community"? I am not sure what you mean by this.

All I expect from school is to provide the kids with a good education.

Not every school has the funding or manpower to do so without volunteers, though.  With high stakes testing as young as Kindergarten in some places, teacher layoffs (IL is particularly bad the past few years), lack of funding for the basics, and really high expectations across the board for the "extras", parental volunteering can be a massive help.  At my dd's school several years ago, they required a certain number of volunteer days by each family.  This just was not feasible for us.  We were new to the area, didn't have enough money for a drop in daycare (the only place to take them without a required contract-ran about $40/day/kid), dh could not take time off for it or we would starve, and I was home without a vehicle and two other kids 10 miles away.  Not every family can.  I think it's good to ask for volunteers, but I do see the negatives of requiring it.  

[kiwik]

Our schools use volunteers (at least in Y1/Y2 which is all I have experience with). Most of those I know who do it work part time and do an hour or two a week. We have inclusive classrooms but aides are not always available so an extra pair of hands to help with an activity or reading/writing is good. I quite like that the teachers have people watching them. Yes it may have been nice for my parents to wave me goodbye for the half mile walk/bike to school and not be involved much but it allowed so very dubious practices to go unreported because our parents let us know they backed the teachers and what happened at school was the schools business.

[shawthorne44]

I never understood how parental involvement in the school would help their kid.  The schools seem to want the free labor, but to put the parents away from their kid.  I don't see how a parent shelving library books helps their kid.  I remember my Dad being a field trip chaperone a few times.  But, as a man he was given the troublemakers, and I definately wasn't one. 

[Spy Car]

This is really interesting.

 

I while back I read a book on Amish education that Hunter had recommended, and it struck me as I was reading through the book how Uninvolved the parents were. A few fathers run the board of education that selects the teachers and approves the textbook buying or building upkeep, etc. The mothers supply some cups or once and a while a hot meal. But other than this the leave it up to the teacher to do her thing.

 

After reading this book I started to subscribe to an Amish teacher newsletter. Again, the teachers place very little emphasis on parent involvement. The teachers themselves take full responsibility for the situation. Although like the article you linked states, I think the families convey a message of responsibility and hard-work that outshines a lack of physical involvement.

And let's look at the list of Amish individuals who have won the Noble Prize.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Having a child attending a school with high parental involvement and volunteering in the classroom (especially in the earlier grades) give me a very different perspective on how valuable it is to have a strong school community, including the additional classroom support.

 

It is a key part of what makes for good schools.

 

Bill

[Hunter]

And let's look at the list of Amish individuals who have won the Noble Prize.

 

Bill

 

Bill, are you just trying to be funny, or do you not understand the point Lorisuewho was trying to make?

 

The Amish may switch to apprenticeship after 8th grade, but their 1-8 schools are worthy of comparing to other types of 1-8 Schools, for so many reasons.

[regentrude]

Having a child attending a school with high parental involvement and volunteering in the classroom (especially in the earlier grades) give me a very different perspective on how valuable it is to have a strong school community, including the additional classroom support.

 

It is a key part of what makes for good schools.

 

But there are other models of good schools elsewhere in the world that manage without parents in the classroom.

Maybe one contributing factor is that elsewhere students simply do not spend as much time at school as in the US. School "community" plays much less of a societal role where elementary students get to go home after three or four hours (staying longer for aftercare is voluntary). A model which I vastly prefer: have qualified teachers teach in school, in a concentrated, focused way, without wasting time, and leave parenting to the parents.

 

[Roadrunner]

They need volunteers because the model of teaching is so different. For those of you who have seen Hungarian math classroom video would notice that there are no small groups within the classroom, and a teacher us interacting with all the kids at once. That is the classroom model I grew up with for every single subject.

When my kids were in PS, I volunteered in the classroom. Class was divided into four groups and only one group was at a teacher's table, another one with a parent, one with a teacher' said and one just reading (or picking nose). I felt like parent and teacher' said table were there to keep kids busy and quiet. The type of work we did with kids involved gluing, fill a worksheet, draw something...

I don't know that my presence helped my kid directly, but if was certainty useful to keep order in the room.

[Elisabet1]

I always felt that the parents should be involved in the kids lives, but, I do not like the way our schools here, always give assignments and such, where the parents have to do them. I call it "parent homework." It really sets a bad precedent. I have found our local schools to fail to teach children how to do much of anything. Independence seems discouraged. I do not recall ever bringing home assignments and informing my parents of the work they have to do for my class. In fact, that was one of the straws that broke the camels back that brought me back to home schooling (I took a couple years off). My son came home from school and told me he had to build a landscape with Legos. I told him that made no sense. I emailed the teacher to ask, and she told me to ask my son about it. There were no instructions. He just kept telling me he had to build this big landscape out of legos and take it to school. I said he was not taking Legos to school. 

 

Later, they had a special day at school where everyone brought blankets and pillows and sodas and watched a movie. My son was pulled from that as a punishment for not having done the landscape. I never did get any sort of instructions on how to do this project. I never got any instructions on this project. But this was clearly something that required a parents help and money spending. I had already been told that the very next year, there was a very expensive project coming up. Parents were spending no less than $30 a child, but many parents were spending over $100 per project. Parents were talking about taking time off work to do the projects, and staying up all night doing the homework. In kinder, when there were bi weekly assignments for the parents to do, and I asked about it and was told it was to encourage a parent child relationship. 

 

It used to be that the schools did not come in to our homes and tell us what to do with all our family time. And likewise, parents did not go to the school and try to do things there. But now, parents do a lot of things that teachers used to do, and parents are doing the home work too. The lines have really been blurred. And kids have been taught since day 1 that school is their parents responsibility. 

[Elisabet1]

The other thing about the Amish school is that the parents know the teacher. They know they can trust the teacher. I think all of us had some sort of mean, if not abusive teacher at some point. When my grandparents went to school, their parents grew up with the teacher, if not the grandparents. Now days, you know very little about who your child will have, IF they are qualified, how they handle the classroom, etc. We are in a completely different world from the Amish and from our grandparents 60-80 yrs ago.

[Spy Car]

But there are other models of good schools elsewhere in the world that manage without parents in the classroom.

Yes, that's true. But we in the USA don't tend to put the same relative resources into our schools that those other thriving models of schools do. Parental involvement in this context is very important.

 

Maybe one contributing factor is that elsewhere students simply do not spend as much time at school as in the US. School "community" plays much less of a societal role where elementary students get to go home after three or four hours (staying longer for aftercare is voluntary). A model which I vastly prefer: have qualified teachers teach in school, in a concentrated, focused way, without wasting time, and leave parenting to the parents.

No, I don't think that's it. When there is support in the classroom, and friendships (both between parents and students) that are built in school and extend into "real life" life is much richer than when people are isolated. The experience for students is incomparable at such schools on levels ranging from academics to just having fun and having friends.

 

Bill

[Pen]

Lol, I know this isn't what you're saying but it kinda read a bit like 'the dumb moms help out'.

 

 

 

No. That is not what I meant. ;)

 

A friend of mine from the rural area I now live in who did do a tremendous amount of helping in schools here was National Honor Society in high school, and no doubt could have gone to college had that been a goal, but it was not.  She was actually working with the children, and I think would have been a good teacher. 

 

I accept that where you are located, full time working parents who attended college commonly do extensive volunteer work in the schools as where I am is done by Stay at home parents who did not attend college. These are obviously different demographic areas.

 

And, I do not think that the whole elite group of boarding schools in the country have much in the way of parents volunteering--though I may be wrong, and yet they are feeders to elite colleges.

 

I am questioning the way the study was done.

 

It might be more useful to look at particular students--with enough chosen to give meaningful statistical results--who are having trouble in school and see if they do better or not if their otherwise same exact parents do this or that thing in terms of assistance at home, talking about plans later, helping out at the school in various ways etc. In other words, when the student is the same, the school the same, and so on, and the only thing that changes is the involvement of the parent in any of various ways, does it yield a better outcome as to whatever the problem is that one is trying to address, or not.

[WishboneDawn]

Having a child attending a school with high parental involvement and volunteering in the classroom (especially in the earlier grades) give me a very different perspective on how valuable it is to have a strong school community, including the additional classroom support.

 

It is a key part of what makes for good schools.

 

Bill

This is a good point.

 

The article isn't an argument against parental involvement, it's simply saying it doesn't affect academic achievement in the way we thought it did. But there are likely still other good reasons for parental involvement.

[WishboneDawn]

And let's look at the list of Amish individuals who have won the Noble Prize.

 

Bill

The Richard Dawkins argument? Sorry, but that's an irrelevant stinker of a comment.

[Matryoshka]

The article isn't an argument against parental involvement, it's simply saying it doesn't affect academic achievement in the way we thought it did. But there are likely still other good reasons for parental involvement.

 

I have never understood "parental involvement" in education to have anything to do with a parent physically being at the school, being in fundraisers or on the PTA.

 

I feel like my parents (esp my mother) were very involved in my education.  She didn't volunteer at my school - ever (she worked - as a teacher).  She didn't ever do any fundraising.  She never did a lick of my homework.  She did teach me two foreign languages.  She brought me to tons of museums - we had family memberships to the art and science musems - and on field trips to every historic site in my state - multiple times.  Our house was overflowing with books.  We watched Nova and Masterpiece Theater together. She took me to lots of foreign films. She brought me to classical and world music concerts and to the ballet on a regular basis.  We took trips to other parts of the country, and to other countries (on the cheap, we weren't rich).  She did so much to enrich my education, that by comparison I felt like by comparison I didn't learn much in school - it's partly what led me to homeschool. 

 

My definition of parental involvement also includes keeping track of how the kid is doing in school - where they are struggling and where they have interest -and then offering academic support when the kid needs it - but in the form of extra tutoring-type help (whether by parent or paid tutor) - never by having the parent do the homework (which teaches kid exactly nothing).  My mom did this for my brother, who had dyslexia and dyscalcula.  And offering enrichment for areas of extra talent or interest, whether it be afterschooling or classes..

 

Apparently NONE of that is included in the "conventional" definition of parental involvement.  Apparently it's supposed to be about helping kids glue things in the classroom and helping the school raise money by hosting bake sales and selling stuff?  How did that become the definition?  How does anyone think that's what's going to help kids be successful academically? This is what stuns me about articles like this.  I think parental involvement is huge, but my definition apparently doesn't overlap almost at all with the "conventional" definition. 

[TravelingChris]

Over here, there are very limited parent volunteers in the low income school and no, it isn't because they all work either since many don't.  That school has some periods where the whole class is taught something and other times when a small group is with the teacher.  I never see any aides there at all- just in the ESL room are there two adults.  I tutor kids as a volunteer at this school and this year my dd is doing that too.

 

OTOH, my neighborhood school does have parent volunteers.   That school is one of the few schools in the system that is almost completely higher class families being served.  No, the parent volunteers aren't the non educated ones.  For one thing, most of the doctor wives don't work unless they are also doctors.  Even then, more of them work lesser hours.  Same with spouses of many other top professionals here. One reason that not being employed is so common around here is that our cost of living is so low compared to cities like DC, NYC, and LA, that you can live a perfectly comfortable life here without two incomes if the one income is higher than average.

 

I never thought that parent volunteering at school had anything to do with school achievement.  When I was in school, the only things parent volunteers did was accompany a field trip or help with a class party.  Nobody was expected or needed to come in every week. 

 

My dh is an example of very limited parent involvement in any way and still having success.  By the time he was born, the last kid of four, I guess his parents were tired of parenting.  He did go on a few vacations but that was all stopped by the time he was about eight.  He wasn't in any outside school activity until he was old enough to do things on his own- and then it was through the school.  He didn't even get taken to the library.  But he says that he had anti examples in his family= he did have a friend who lived down the street whose family valued education.  As it was, that friend was two years older but my dh influenced him = he says he was the first one so interested in astronomy and later physics and his friend and his nearest older brother kind of went along with his interest.  Well his friend is a physicist now and so is he.  His older brother is a bum.

 

Anyway, I have come to the conclusion that it takes not only intelligence but the proper personality to become successful.  I know my dh's brothers aren't stupid, and there IQ levels were probably pretty close to dh's.  But there personalities were the bane of them. 

[Pen]

I always felt that the parents should be involved in the kids lives, but, I do not like the way our schools here, always give assignments and such, where the parents have to do them. I call it "parent homework." It really sets a bad precedent. I have found our local schools to fail to teach children how to do much of anything. Independence seems discouraged. I do not recall ever bringing home assignments and informing my parents of the work they have to do for my class. In fact, that was one of the straws that broke the camels back that brought me back to home schooling (I took a couple years off). My son came home from school and told me he had to build a landscape with Legos. I told him that made no sense. I emailed the teacher to ask, and she told me to ask my son about it. There were no instructions. He just kept telling me he had to build this big landscape out of legos and take it to school. I said he was not taking Legos to school. 

 

Later, they had a special day at school where everyone brought blankets and pillows and sodas and watched a movie. My son was pulled from that as a punishment for not having done the landscape. I never did get any sort of instructions on how to do this project. I never got any instructions on this project. But this was clearly something that required a parents help and money spending. I had already been told that the very next year, there was a very expensive project coming up. Parents were spending no less than $30 a child, but many parents were spending over $100 per project. Parents were talking about taking time off work to do the projects, and staying up all night doing the homework. In kinder, when there were bi weekly assignments for the parents to do, and I asked about it and was told it was to encourage a parent child relationship. 

 

It used to be that the schools did not come in to our homes and tell us what to do with all our family time. And likewise, parents did not go to the school and try to do things there. But now, parents do a lot of things that teachers used to do, and parents are doing the home work too. The lines have really been blurred. And kids have been taught since day 1 that school is their parents responsibility. 

 

This sounds similar to my experience with my son's bricks and mortar schools, 2 of them, one public, one Waldorf private. A tremendous demand on parents--some of which may have enhanced the school "community" feeling, but was not helpful to academics and learning, and did tend to suggest that school is the parents' responsibility. And a lot of spending being expected in terms of fund raisers.

[Joker]

I never understood how parental involvement in the school would help their kid.  The schools seem to want the free labor, but to put the parents away from their kid.  I don't see how a parent shelving library books helps their kid.

 

I've shelved library books, organized and handed out textbooks, spent days making copies and packets, organized teachers for field trips, and the list goes on. My dds are in ps middle school and they do not need me with them, but they do need their teachers. If I am helping do these things then their teachers are able to focus on teaching. Our school has many parent volunteers that are doing the same. I've never seen anything wrong about helping out the school and teachers. I have the time.

 

I'm involved in that I help out like the above and I check the website weekly to see their grades. If they're struggling somewhere we work together and if we can't figure something out, then I contact the teacher (this is after dds have already tried talking with them). I've only had to actually contact a teacher regarding trouble with grades twice. One explained to me that CCS greatly changed how they do history this year and everyone was struggling first quarter. Dd (and other students) are doing much better this quarter. The other was a huge misunderstanding between oldest and the teacher. I'm glad I became involved because it might still be going on. Instead dd now considers her one of her favorite teachers this year.

 

I don't do their homework and I don't nag them about homework. If they forget to do something or are lazy, they get the grade for being so. I'm lucky though that my dds rarely ever forget or are lazy about school.

[LaughingCat]

I can see how parental involvement as defined by helping in a classroom might help generally for that classroom - but then you would need to differentiate between classrooms with involvement vs. classrooms without involvement, not kid A whose parent volunteers vs. kid B in same classroom (benefiting from same volunteerism) whose parent does not volunteer.

 

I would be far more interested to see how much after school tutoring (by parent, by outside agency, or even by school) helps vs. homework help or classroom volunteering (which is what it sounds like they looked at).  Things like - does doing a million Kumon worksheets really benefit the child? (yeah, I've been hearing a lot of Kumon love lately :eek:  )

[vonfirmath]

Interesting article.  With  my oldest I wasn't very involved in her school.  I worked full time (sometimes part time and/or school as well).  She had an after school activity that led to her having to be responsible for getting her own homework done. 

 

I did always emphasize doing her best in school.  She always knew if her grades suffered, her activity (dance) would be cut-down since school was more important.  But I also didn't make a big deal about grades IF I thought she was truly trying her best.  My view - just about everybody has a subject that gives them a little more trouble than others, and often a concept needs a little bit of extra time to be understood.  So, my dd could get a C (or even a D) for a marking period but if I knew she was doing what she could to gain understanding (working with the teacher, extra studying, tutoring, whatever) and bring up the grade, I wouldn't punish her for it.  We would work on what needed to be done.

 

She's now a sophomore in college, has made Dean's List every semester.  She's doing a great job balancing school, working, friends and socializing.  It's a balance she was already in control of for years before she went to college.

 

Of course, my sample size is 1, and she always had goals that meant doing well in school/going to college, so maybe a lot of it is a personality thing.

 

This is almost exactly what my parents expected. They expected us to do our best in every course. NOT to get all As or anything. And I really think that was very wise (though we both generally made good grades, it didn't destroy me to find out I wasn't good at Photography. I just did the best I could)