Article: Homeschool Blindspots. (about sheltering, overprotecting)

[JadeOrchidSong]

http://www.joshharris.com/2011/09/homeschool_blindspots.php

 

I saw this today. I hope my children will turn out balanced and well adjusted.

[Amy in NH]

"In the last couple of years, I have heard from multitudes of troubled homeschool parents around the country, a good many of whom were leaders. These parents have graduated their first batch of kids, only to discover that their children didn't turn out the way they thought they would. Many of these children were model homeschoolers while growing up, but sometime after their 18th birthday they began to reveal that they didn't hold to their parents' values.

 

Some of these young people grew up and left home in defiance of their parents. Others got married against their parents' wishes, and still others got involved with drugs, alcohol, and immorality. I have even heard of several exemplary young men who no longer even believe in God. My own adult children have gone through struggles I never guessed they would face."

 

I don't see this as a problem related to homeschooling, but it is more of a byproduct of being a control-freak parent.  If you try to control what your child thinks, they will leave as soon as they have the opportunity.  IMO, homeschooling is about teaching your children to think for themselves.

[MomatHWTK]

Yes, don't just give them fish, teach them to fish. 

[dancingmama]

If you don't give your children the opportunity to "rebel" at a young age, in a controlled environment, they will rebel at an older age, when there is more to lose.  I agree this isn't a homeschooling problem but a general parenting problem.  

[TravelingChris]

Well, Amy, it isn't about all homeschooling parents at all.  But there have been homeschooling movements (in the Christian homeschooling community) which have advocated the behaviors that Reb Bradley is warning against.  I don't know if the courtship movement died out or whether I have just been living in areas where it wasn't popular-  but that whole movement was based on controlling young adults, let alone children.  I remember (and this is more than ten years ago) when I would say to some homeschoolers that we would not be practicing courtship since I expected my children to go to college and not live at home and if they did so (and the first two did), I didn't expect to have such control over them be practical, even if I wanted to do it, and I didn't and how many moms were aghast that I would not shelter my children in that way.

[laughing lioness]

The bottom line is that our kids are going to grow up, leave home and make their own choices, regardless of how we've taught them to fish, if we were legalistic, loved them, screamed at them or whatever combination of parenting we imposed on them.  

 

If they are loving, kind or even civil while they "find their way" - bonus. If they are selfish jerks, well; that's incredilby painful. In a world that is increasingly focused on SELF and social media (shallow and self focused), the selfish jerk-factor is pretty high.

 

Being a control freak or a totally whateve parent only slightly influences the outcomes of our kids. The stats are in(look at any current Human Development text- dh teaches developmental psych at U level)  and peers count more than parents, genetics more than nurture.

 

The problem (that I see) is that a whole host of homeschooling leaders promise, "if you do X, your kids will be Y."  Legalism, pure and simple. And not backed by reality- circumstantial or statistical.

[creekland]

The problem (that I see) is that a whole host of homeschooling leaders promise, "if you do X, your kids will be Y."  Legalism, pure and simple. And not backed by reality- circumstantial or statistical.

And this is the key...

 

I've seen the same "issues" from many ps parents.

 

We tried our best to teach our kids to fish, not to shelter them, and to give them age appropriate freedom (we're more on the free range end, so some would gasp).

 

In the end, they make their own choices based upon who they are and what influences they encounter.  I have no regrets, but I offer no promises either.  We send ours off from the nest with many prayers here at home afterward.

 

I have told mine over and over again that they can be whatever they want to be as long as it doesn't include being a pimp, illegal drug dealer, or terrorist, and we'll love them + accept them.  I'd want the same from my parents.  

[Trish]

"In the last couple of years, I have heard from multitudes of troubled homeschool parents around the country, a good many of whom were leaders. These parents have graduated their first batch of kids, only to discover that their children didn't turn out the way they thought they would. Many of these children were model homeschoolers while growing up, but sometime after their 18th birthday they began to reveal that they didn't hold to their parents' values.

 

Some of these young people grew up and left home in defiance of their parents. Others got married against their parents' wishes, and still others got involved with drugs, alcohol, and immorality. I have even heard of several exemplary young men who no longer even believe in God. My own adult children have gone through struggles I never guessed they would face."

 

I don't see this as a problem related to homeschooling, but it is more of a byproduct of being a control-freak parent.  If you try to control what your child thinks, they will leave as soon as they have the opportunity.  IMO, homeschooling is about teaching your children to think for themselves.

Why would any particular child have to turn out the way a parent "thought they would?" So far even marriage, kids, parenting and family life in general have not necessarily turned out the way I thought it would. We do live by certain values, but that doesn't mean I have a clear picture of how our lives are going to go.

 

So if you parent permissively, strictly, or anywhere in between, the kids MIGHT turn out how you "thought they would." Or, they might not. So, maybe the homeschool parents suffered from unrealistic expectations, or maybe the strict ones do, but I don't necessarily see causality. Kids become independent no matter what type of home they're from.

[Orthodox6]

We teach our children to fish. Part of fishing includes our teaching them which fish to avoid, which to throw back, and which to keep.

[lea1]

Wonderful article with some great reminders.  Thanks!

[laughing lioness]

We teach our children to fish. Part of fishing includes our teaching them which fish to avoid, which to throw back, and which to keep.

But even if we teach them, it doesn't mean the teaching will "take."

[Catwoman]

Of course, none of this stuff happens if your kids go to public school. :rolleyes:

[FaithManor]

Of course, none of this stuff happens if your kids go to public school. :rolleyes:

Exactly! Because the vast majority of PS students are paragons of social grace, responsible citizenship, and Aristotelian thinking skills. Yep, they never make a choice their parents disagree with????

 

Oh wait, wake me up from Wonderland....parental and educational utopia doesn't exist.

 

If you want a guarantee, buy a car under warranty, get rid of it when the warranty expires,  and don't have kids! There is no magic formula

[Orthodox6]

But even if we teach them, it doesn't mean the teaching will "take."

 

Yes.  Nonetheless, if DH and I have provided the best possible rod-and-reel, net, instructions, and comprehension checks, we shall have done our duty as parents.  I suspect that you understood me in the first place.   

 

[maryanne]

Honestly, this article didn't really seem to be about homeschooling.  It seemed to me like it was about a group of lifestyle and parenting choices that commonly also include choosing to homeschooling. I was expecting more of write up on some common pitfalls to homeschooling such as forgetting to teach children to put their names on their papers or too much emphasis on flexibility and not enough on deadlines.

[Mom-ninja.]

Of course, none of this stuff happens if your kids go to public school. :rolleyes:

 

or private school.

 

Don't you know homeschooling will ruin your kids?

[PeacefulChaos]

I remember skimming that article back when I saw it in the magazine - I didn't see anything in it that I cared about one way or another.

I read a little bit more of it this time, but all I can think is that these problems aren't 'homeschooling' problems.  They are parental problems, whether those parents homeschool their kids, send their kids to public school, private school, whatever.  

[plansrme]

Those of you who are scoffing, have you read the article?  Josh Harris (the courtship dude) is heartfelt and honest about mistakes he and his wife made in their own family.  He would probably agree with most of the scoffing, but the contents of the article were very different than I expected from the initial comments here.  It is long but well worth a read.

 

 

[albeto.]

That was painful to read. I skipped ahead to the conclusion, and this is just so unclear to me, I cannot comprehend what he's trying to get at.

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

I am convinced that the most contagious parenting is living a heartfelt faith before your children.

 

And yet, all the parents (himself included) probably believed they were doing exactly that, all the while driving their children away. If I were a believer, I'd be worried all over again about my faith. Is it heartfelt enough? Do my kids see it? Am I pursuing it in hopes of inspiring my kids, and if so, does that mean it's not genuine? How is it that other parents who don't wear their hearts on their sleeves have kids with whom they get along great and are proud of them and who they are growing into? What's the missing link there?

 

Fruitful interaction is not about what you do to your young people, but who you are with them.

 

But... who you are with someone is determined by what you do with them. How do you separate these?

 

It's about having a real faith in God,

 

Yeah, that would have raised my anxiety meter again. How do we know when our faith is "real" as opposed to response to fear, desire, hope, or any other emotion we simply cannot avoid? When we look to God for help, comfort, answers, how do we separate that from looking to him for no other reason than to be with him? But the bible says to ask, so we should be able to look to him for comfort. But then is that "real faith" or is that looking for the reward of emotional comfort? I can't imagine trying to work that out in my brain today. It just keeps running in circles. 

 

and expressing it in a real relationship with a real person

 

Except, what we know about Jesus comes from our interpretation of the bible and our imagination of what he might say to us. How do you relate to someone you can never see or talk to? It's a one way communication, which negates relating. 

 

--not about methods and self-working principles.

 

What's a self-working principle? I would have wondered for days if that meant looking to God for comfort was included in that. 

 

God intends that the side-effect of loving Jesus and enjoying the grace of the gospel will be that all people--including our children--will be touched by the Savior in us.

 

Well, I sure tried that as hard as I could, and still my kids left the faith. As they got older, all my "teaching them how to fish" got in the way of just believing, and they decided my faith wasn't for them. Eventually I left it to, so apparently God didn't intend that for me and my family, or I'm to blame for not doing it right (even though I did everything I knew).

 

I pray in Jesus' name that as you read these words you will experience the grace of God in a fresh and new way.

 

See, this all sounds so sweet and loving and comforting, but when you break it down into what he actually says, it doesn't make sense.

[LostSurprise]

There are no sure things. We're talking about human beings here. Some of my kids are going to do things opposing my thoughts, feelings, style, and beliefs....and its going to hurt. Its part of the job. Even if you 'teach them to catch a fish' to the best of your ability, you can't make them translate that into the world they face. 

 

The best I can do: 

 

*have a great relationship~not just children but people in general will listen to your advice if you have a mutually respectful relationship

*know the difference between areas when you use authority, where you instruct, where you advise, and when you shut your mouth and just let things fall. IMO, this is the hardest part of being a parent. It is the art of parenting. 

*Repeat 'X is not an extension of myself or my self worth. X is their own person' about 20x. Then remember some way in which you've changed from your family of origin. It doesn't have to be a negative thing. People are different. 

*a person is not one situation, conversation, action, growth cycle, or even number of years. Time is our friend. 

 

I come from a rather authoritarian family of origin where my siblings and I all reacted differently to starting independent lives. My parents did influence how we launched into life (at least by reaction) but as the years go by I understand more of how our own personalities factored into those decisions. None of us reacted to it the same way. The further we get away from our childhoods the more open we are to evaluating the decisions our parents made, and respecting them or at least understanding them...even where we disagree. 

[idnib]

 I skipped ahead to the conclusion

 

 

<snip>

 

 

See, this all sounds so sweet and loving and comforting, but when you break it down into what he actually says, it doesn't make sense.

 

Not sure how to reconcile these two things... 

 

I think what he is actually saying is that kids (and adults, really) want to be accepted and generally take on the ideas of those who accept them for who they are. So if the parents are too sheltering, worried about image, legalistic about religion, etc and the child doesn't feel accepted, they will gravitate towards people who make them feel so later, when they get a chance. If they feel accepted within their family, they will be more likely to follow the faith and values of their parents because home and family is where they feel they can be who they are.

 

The problems are not specific to homeschoolers, but perhaps in his circles and for his intended audience, many people are drawn to homeschooling because they are the over-sheltering type.

 

That's what I took from it anyway.

[WishboneDawn]

That was painful to read. I skipped ahead to the conclusion, and this is just so unclear to me, I cannot comprehend what he's trying to get at.

 

You really should read the article.

 

He's a veteran homeschooler and parent relating the mistakes he's made and what he's learned from them. 

 

I'm sort of surprised at the reaction in this thread because this article has been posted here before and it generally gets a good reaction. The author knows what he's talking to and addressing a specific audience - Christian homeschoolers who are inclined to be more controlling and authoritarian. He's telling them to calm down, get out of their own way and enjoy the ride.

 

It's not an article that critical of homeschooling or that's aimed at all homeschoolers. 

 

I've read it several times since I first saw it and it's something I've shared myself.

[WishboneDawn]

Not sure how to reconcile these two things... 

 

I think what he is actually saying is that kids (and adults, really) want to be accepted and generally take on the ideas of those who accept them for who they are. So if the parents are too sheltering, worried about image, legalistic about religion, etc and the child doesn't feel accepted, they will gravitate towards people who make them feel so later, when they get a chance. If they feel accepted within their family, they will be more likely to follow the faith and values of their parents because home and family is where they feel they can be who they are.

 

The problems are not specific to homeschoolers, but perhaps in his circles and for his intended audience, many people are drawn to homeschooling because they are the over-sheltering type.

 

That's what I took from it anyway.

I think you've got the right of it.:)

[QueenCat]

But even if we teach them, it doesn't mean the teaching will "take."

 

And it doesn't always mean it should! I'm so glad my husband didn't turn out the way his parents raised him!

[Orthodox6]

You really should read the article.

 

He's a veteran homeschooler and parent relating the mistakes he's made and what he's learned from them. 

 

I'm sort of surprised at the reaction in this thread because this article has been posted here before and it generally gets a good reaction. The author knows what he's talking to and addressing a specific audience - Christian homeschoolers who are inclined to be more controlling and authoritarian. He's telling them to calm down, get out of their own way and enjoy the ride.

 

It's not an article that critical of homeschooling or that's aimed at all homeschoolers. 

 

I've read it several times since I first saw it and it's something I've shared myself.

 

 

I don't come from a "control-heavy", "do not ever contradict ones parents" wing of Christianity, so I'm curious.  If the author is directing his remarks toward members of those groups, why would he hope that anybody [from those groups] would pay attention to him? 

[Lisa in SC]

We definitely parent in a "teach them to fish" sort of way. We are not dictators. We teach and model logic skills, encourage our children to think for themselves, support their interests, and let them explore boundaries. Our children are given more responsibilities and the ability to make more of their own decisions with each year that they age. We keep an open door policy regarding friends, and are approachable and open to dialogue about everything. Absolutely no topic is off the table. However, they ultimately are going to make their own choices and choose their own paths.

 

Each of our children has been parented this way. Our older dd, at age 20, made a decision that resulted in our first grandchild. The father chose to run away. I don't consider this grandchild to be a "mistake," or even rebellion on dd's part. This dd does have a rebellious streak, but that didn't play a part in this scenario. She is a wonderful mommy. She's finishing school, and getting ready to add work back into the mix. She is a responsible, contributing member of society, although there are many who would disagree, since she is an unwed mother. Our granddaughter is loved beyond measure by all of us. I have no doubt that she will be a pretty wonderful addition to the world..I mean, she already is a wonderful addition to ours.

 

Our 2nd dd just turned 18, and is in her freshman year at university. She is doing wonderfully. She does not have a rebellious streak, although I suppose one could develop. She is making straight A's, and is balancing school and fun very responsibly. She is extremely intentional about everything she does.

 

Older ds is a tad rebellious at home, which I see as a normal part of testing boundaries and identifying as an individual. However, he is also very responsible. He does small engine repair, and has a small lawn care business for a few homes in our neighborhood. He plans to expand his business once he has a driver's license. When he feels frustrated due to what I call an excess of testosterone, he goes for a very long run. He developed this "therapy" himself, after coming to us and discussing his feelings.

 

Our youngest, at 7, is too young to really get a "reading" as to his make up. If I had to guess though, I would say he is more like our younger dd. very intentional and balanced.

 

All of these kids were parented the same way. We are far from perfect parents, but we strive to maintain open communication and good relationships with each of them. It's interesting to me how differently they are as individuals. However, these differences are what makes me smile. They are themselves. They make mistakes, just as we did and do. That's ok. I think parenting has to be a continually evolving process that is customized to each child.

 

Our younger dd is probably closest to what outsiders would consider a "model child," but we just see her as her own person. I don't believe in formulaic parenting, and I don't believe in comparing children. I'm not saying anyone here is doing that, just sharing my viewpoint. I want my children to be happy and successful according to their own definition of success. There isn't a way we want them to "turn out," other than to be productive, successful, independent adults. Obviously, we wouldn't encourage criminal behavior, but success is quite subjective. If one ends up owning a company, another blogs for a living, another makes enough money to sustain their love of world travel, and another is a stay at home parent, then that will be a-ok with us. As would any other legal path to happiness any one of them might choose. It is their life. We see parenting as a means to develop their abilities and confidence, as well as their responsibility to community (locally and globally), to the point where they make their own choices that lead to their personal fulfillment.

[WishboneDawn]

I don't come from a "control-heavy", "do not ever contradict ones parents" wing of Christianity, so I'm curious. If the author is directing his remarks toward members of those groups, why would he hope that anybody [from those groups] would pay attention to him?

I don't know. I'm not sure he's speaking to the extreme fringes but more to the parents who were like him when he was younger? Regardless, I don't know how he came to the decision to write what he did but I do still like the article.

[aprilleigh]

My son told me today that his friend's mother has very different rules than I do.  He seemed, I don't know, surprised or baffled by this.  I said different parents do things differently and that believe it or not parents really have no clue what they are doing.  They just make stuff up as they go along and hope it works.  :lol:

 

Exactly! My son is also aware that different families do things differently and that there's often no "right" way to do something. For example, my son gets a half-hour of reading time before bed, but my similarly-aged nieces go straight to bed after hugs and kisses. My nieces have soft music playing after lights out, but my son doesn't. It's all good, even if it's different.

[TravelingChris]

I have been part time homeschooling since 1994 and full time since 1995.   THe author of the piece, who is Reb Bradley, is a pastor of a church (or was) in the Sacramento CA area where a lot of the congregation was homeschooling.  I lived in that area from 1995 to 1999 but I had actually started homeschooling full time before I moved there.  I believe he wrote some homeschooling books, maybe, but definitely was a speaker in homeschooling circles- like conventions.  He, among with many others, advocated sheltering to help preserve faith.  In the mid to later 90's, there were many, many authors advocating sheltering for Christian homeschooled children - not watching tv, music selection, etc. etc.  Even then, though we didn't attend his church, I was impressed with how he tried to advocate for a wife and kids with a man who was taking the leadership role in marriage the completely wrong way. 

 

Fast forward, more than ten years after I started homeschooling, I go to the Florida convention and hear him give basically this same speech (like what this article is).  He really impressed me.  Often when speakers or writers in any type of field find out they were wrong, they just stop writing or speaking.  He didn't and went on speaking about how that verse in Proverbs is misapplied. 

 

Now Josh Harris is the son of Greg Harris who also was very popular on the homeschool convention series in the 90's.  I believe that Greg and his wife sold an organizer, or something.  Their two sons went on to write some Christian books.  Josh isn't old enough to have adult children yet.

 

But yes, if any  of you want to know about earlier decades of homeschooling, there are still a number of us on these boards who remember.  One trend I remember was popular was that the Dad was supposed to be in charge of homeschooling and the day should start with Dad personally giving the Bible lesson.  That was a plan advocated by a number of people - none of whom were military families nor had fathers in any other occupation that required travel or irregular hours or changing shifts or where Dad would rather leave the entire teaching and planning to the Mom.

[Orthodox6]

I have been part time homeschooling since 1994 and full time since 1995.   THe author of the piece, who is Reb Bradley, is a pastor of a church (or was) in the Sacramento CA area where a lot of the congregation was homeschooling.  I lived in that area from 1995 to 1999 but I had actually started homeschooling full time before I moved there.  I believe he wrote some homeschooling books, maybe, but definitely was a speaker in homeschooling circles- like conventions.  He, among with many others, advocated sheltering to help preserve faith.  In the mid to later 90's, there were many, many authors advocating sheltering for Christian homeschooled children - not watching tv, music selection, etc. etc.  Even then, though we didn't attend his church, I was impressed with how he tried to advocate for a wife and kids with a man who was taking the leadership role in marriage the completely wrong way. 

 

Fast forward, more than ten years after I started homeschooling, I go to the Florida convention and hear him give basically this same speech (like what this article is).  He really impressed me.  Often when speakers or writers in any type of field find out they were wrong, they just stop writing or speaking.  He didn't and went on speaking about how that verse in Proverbs is misapplied. 

 

Now Josh Harris is the son of Greg Harris who also was very popular on the homeschool convention series in the 90's.  I believe that Greg and his wife sold an organizer, or something.  Their two sons went on to write some Christian books.  Josh isn't old enough to have adult children yet.

 

But yes, if any  of you want to know about earlier decades of homeschooling, there are still a number of us on these boards who remember.  One trend I remember was popular was that the Dad was supposed to be in charge of homeschooling and the day should start with Dad personally giving the Bible lesson.  That was a plan advocated by a number of people - none of whom were military families nor had fathers in any other occupation that required travel or irregular hours or changing shifts or where Dad would rather leave the entire teaching and planning to the Mom.

 

 

In early 1995 I began planning for homeschooling in the fall, so I'm pretty close to TransientChris' timeline.  There were no materials available, that anybody could tell me about, other than products produced by, or endorsed by, the fundamentalist Protestant groups.  It was some years later that I discovered that Catholics also were homeschooling, and were producing homeschooling curricula.  . . .  I bought that planner sold by the Harris family.  Being horribly ADHD, however, I never used it because it was too much bother and detail.   

 

Yes, the only things available to read were "Dad-centered, Dad-authority" magazines and books with heavy-handed preaching of that flavor of Christianity, and rank disdain for other Christian groups. 

 

Secular publishers were pretty squiffy about homeschoolers.  Only the brave, small handful of secular publishers would sell anything to me, especially if it included teacher materials.   

 

I read all the exhortations to hide my children under a manhole cover.  Not our style, nor our belief system, so I ignored all that. 

 

The concept of my husband being the "lead teacher" was comic, considering that he was working long, overtime hours in order that I could be at home with the children!

 

Thanks for the brief "Memory Lane" roadtrip, TransientChrist!

 

 

ETA:  Fully agreeing with everyone who said that this article is about "general parenting", rather than about "homeschooler parenting".

[LLMom]

I read the article several years ago and really like it.  Although not a specific homeschooling issue, I think it can be a problem for homeschoolers.  Legalism has become a problem in certain homeschool circles, and it is often promoted that if you do certain things you will have Godly children.  I just remind myself that Jesus was the perfect teacher/parent and he still lost one. 

[Lilaclady]

I had read the article a couple of years ago and do see some of he points he is making. There are still loads of parents n my local homeschool community that believes that homeschooling is the cure for everything. I guess everyone's mileage will vary.

[albeto.]

You really should read the article.

 

He's a veteran homeschooler and parent relating the mistakes he's made and what he's learned from them. 

 

I'm sort of surprised at the reaction in this thread because this article has been posted here before and it generally gets a good reaction. The author knows what he's talking to and addressing a specific audience - Christian homeschoolers who are inclined to be more controlling and authoritarian. He's telling them to calm down, get out of their own way and enjoy the ride.

 

It's not an article that critical of homeschooling or that's aimed at all homeschoolers. 

 

I've read it several times since I first saw it and it's something I've shared myself.

 

Okay, I finally read the article. My mind has not changed. I find him to be no more clear now than I did before and if I were still a Christian this kind of article would do nothing but drive a guilty conscience. This kind of spiritual blaming the victim thing is just mean to do to parents who are seeking real help for real issues. 

[WishboneDawn]

Okay, I finally read the article. My mind has not changed. I find him to be no more clear now than I did before and if I were still a Christian this kind of article would do nothing but drive a guilty conscience. This kind of spiritual blaming the victim thing is just mean to do to parents who are seeking real help for real issues.

Thank you for reading it. You got something very different out of it then me. I'll probably try it again with your criticism in mind.

[JadeOrchidSong]

http://hippiehousewife.blogspot.com/2011/07/attachment-parenting-christian.html

This is a good read.

[Tammyla]

There is no guarantee in parenting and never was.

 

 

[Sara R]

Thanks for the link, OP. If anyone is interested in related issues, many adult children of sheltering 90s homeschools are sharing their experiences. Homeschoolers Anonymous took a survey of 242 homeschooled adults. One interesting finding, related to the original link, was that only 5% said that they had a fundamentalist Christian background that influenced them towards fundamentalism, versus 15% who had a fundamentalist background which influenced them towards atheism. This study probably isn't statistically rigorous, since these aren't randomly selected homeschooled adults, but it does point to a disturbing subculture I didn't know very much about.

 

I also enjoyed the Becoming Worldly blog by a young woman who came out of an abusive homeschooling situation. She believes in homeschooling, but with common sense protections like forbidding sex offenders from homeschooling and an annual core competency standardized test or portfolio review, to prevent what happened to her from happening to others (here's her post on homeschool regulations and children's rights). She is used to homeschoolers debating her story, and she responds to those objections.

[sassenach]

I don't come from a "control-heavy", "do not ever contradict ones parents" wing of Christianity, so I'm curious. If the author is directing his remarks toward members of those groups, why would he hope that anybody [from those groups] would pay attention to him?

Because he's a well known and respected leader in that community. It would be akin to swb coming out with a long article about the damage done by following the WTM.

[Orthodox6]

Because he's a well known and respected leader in that community. It would be akin to swb coming out with a long article about the damage done by following the WTM.

 

Wouldn't, then, people (of that fold) simply conclude that he somehow had "flipped his lid"?  I have the long-distance impression that people in those groups are rigidly unable to "hear" any differing messages until something disastrous happens to them, individually.

[I.Dup.]

I think that's the "problem" on this thread — among those who commented were those who did not fall within his target audience.

 

I skimmed the article. One thing I wondered is if it is really possible for family to become an idol, or in secular words if it's possible to... value family too much?  I'm inclined to say this is not possible. What is possible to get too caught up in a certain ideal of the family without actually paying attention to your flesh and blood kids.

 

This ideal may be a certain type of homeschooling, or parenting, or even the ideal of home-cooking all the time that leaves a parent with little time for their kids. That is not the family as such, though. It's also possible to engage in the same kind of mistake with religion. If your absolute goal is that your kids will believe in exactly the same way you do, you probably have a high chance of failing — as the author demonstrates. That does not mean you failed your kids, I think; it means your goal may have been too rigid. 

 

I'm religious but also liberal and I can't say I believe that a child who wants to get a religious tattoo is a dreadful outcome :). Even if you don't like tattoos, and even if you go by certain parts of scripture that indicate tattoos are not OK. Now, I've changed a lot religiously over the last few years. I believe I'm in the right place now. One of my kids seems to be an atheist, and that's fine with me too.

 

My rabbi has two kids. One of those is a very outspoken nine-year old girl who seems to be into politics in a big way. He recently said that he believes his daughter will not choose to live a traditional Jewish life at all, but that the most important thing to him is never to lose communication and connection with her. For me, he is a true example. Loving your children and connecting with them is the most important. One can never make a child believe someone he doesn't believe, or make him have the same interpretation you have.

 

Not that any of this is related to homeschooling. I would value a true discussion about homeschooling blindspots, because there are probably many. 

 

 

I agree with this, esp. the bolded.

 

I do think I "idolize" my family...hopefully not over God, but over everything else. I really don't care much what other people think of our family, though. My parents were very much about "appearances" and I realized the hypocrisy in that kind of lifestyle early on. The most important thing to me is that we all stay close and connected. I do shelter, but not for the reason that I am afraid of what others will think if my kids do X and Y, and we really are pretty liberal about a lot of things.

[fairfarmhand]

I think that's the "problem" on this thread — among those who commented were those who did not fall within his target audience.

 

I skimmed the article. One thing I wondered is if it is really possible for family to become an idol, or in secular words if it's possible to... value family too much?  I'm inclined to say this is not possible. What is possible to get too caught up in a certain ideal of the family without actually paying attention to your flesh and blood kids.

 

This ideal may be a certain type of homeschooling, or parenting, or even the ideal of home-cooking all the time that leaves a parent with little time for their kids. That is not the family as such, though. It's also possible to engage in the same kind of mistake with religion. If your absolute goal is that your kids will believe in exactly the same way you do, you probably have a high chance of failing — as the author demonstrates. That does not mean you failed your kids, I think; it means your goal may have been too rigid. 

 

I read a book one time by a Christian author (pastor's wife) who said in a nutshell, we raised our children to be independent free-thinking adults and doggone it...that's what they did!  This was in regard to their kids, all 3 or 4 of them choosing different denominations from their parents. My dad has raised 3 kids, none of whom are in his same denomination. He feels like a failure in this regard and totally takes it personally. I feel sorry for him for feeling that way and it annoys me to no end that he cannot take pride in the wonderful Christian kids he has because we are not in x denomination.