In defense of public school teachers...

[Mamasteff]

I realize that there are some public school teachers who tend to treat homeschooling parents as clueless nitwits who are destroying their children by not allowing them to "be socialized." I realize there are some public school teachers who are so uncertain of themselves that the only defense they have is to put others down.

 

Many of those "ignorant" public school teachers are just that, ignorant of what homeschooling actually is. They have no idea how it would work to teach just one, two, or six students. They have been taught how to do it the public school way. Otherwise they wouldn't have the teaching credentials.

 

But please, please, do not lump all public school teachers into this category. I know that there are others on this board who, like myself, were public school teachers before homeschooling. I know that there are others whose spouse/ significant other/ partner/ principal of the homeschool is a public school teacher.

 

Some have said before, each family makes its own decision for the education of each child. Not every child is going to fit well into public school. Not every child/ parent combination is a good match for homeschool. Not every family can work the schedule to accommodate jobs and school. Sadly, not every parent is able to or cares to be as involved in his/ her own child's education as we on this board are.

 

We need public school teachers to educate the students whose parents cannot or will not. We need public school teachers in those schools we all refer to - the stabbings, the shootings, the guns on campus, the drugs, the peer pressure, the "socialization" we are all avoiding for our own kids. We need them there to reach those students who are capable and motivated and will make a change in this world.

 

So please, please, before you criticize your sister, mother-in-law, uncle, cousin, neighbor who is a public school teacher and is bashing you for homeschooling... remember that they do have very real concerns. No, not the socialization of your kids, but of those 30 (elementary age) or 180 (middle school and high school) students they are given charge of 180 days a year. And it is easier for them to think they can make a difference in your family than in their own classrooms.

 

--Steff,

public school teacher

wife of a public school teacher

daughter of a public school teacher

niece of a public school teacher

sister-in-law of a public school teacher

sister of a public school substitute

product of public schools

[Nestof3]

I guess I didn't notice anyone lumping public school teachers together, but I do expect a public school teacher, or anyone else for that matter, to have support to back statements like "homeschooled kids cannot function in society" or " homeschooled kids don't get proper socialization." I expect people to know what they are talking about if they are going to criticize someone else. I expect people to speak from experience and personal knowledge, not just repeat a handful of circulating statements as though they are mantras.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Very very well said! My teacher friends work their tails off. They are not doing only 2 hours of work in 1st grade, I can assure you of that. Not all teachers agree with the philosophies of the unions, some teachers are screaming just as loud for school reforms as anyone.

 

I think it is just as bad for people to stereotype public school teachers, parents, or children as it is others to stereotype homeschoolers.

[Holly IN]

I guess I didn't notice anyone lumping public school teachers together, but I do expect a public school teacher, or anyone else for that matter, to have support to back statements like "homeschooled kids cannot function in society" or " homeschooled kids don't get proper socialization." I expect people to know what they are talking about if they are going to criticize someone else. I expect people to speak from experience and personal knowledge, not just repeat a handful of circulating statements as though they are mantras.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I am tired of being criticized by them. Actually I had a conversation with a PS teacher last Friday. She told me that classical ed can only take you so far that you will have to switch to traditional methods. Then she told me to employ a math teacher to teach my kids math...:001_huh: she had no clue what she was talking about. She should have kept her mouth shut!!

 

Holly

[Mom to Aly]

My mom was, and my sister is, a public school teacher. They were both totally in favor of my homeschooling my daughter, who is gifted. My sister now thinks I should stop, because of money constraints (I am a single mom, and money is beyond tight), but they both think that, academically, socially, and in every other way, it is the best thing I could do.

 

I have also met a huge number of homeschool moms who were public school teachers and who quit, saying that one thing they learned early on was that, if they had a choice, they would never send their kids to school.

 

I think teaching public school is one of the hardest jobs out there, and applaud anyone who is willing to do it. And I know there are plenty who don't think much of homeschooling, but, from the ones I have met, it has been mostly the older ones, who heard of homeschooling later in their careers. Most of the ones that I have met who were for it have been young, and have kids of their own.

[Mrs Mungo]

Some have said before, each family makes its own decision for the education of each child. Not every child is going to fit well into public school. Not every child/ parent combination is a good match for homeschool. Not every family can work the schedule to accommodate jobs and school. Sadly, not every parent is able to or cares to be as involved in his/ her own child's education as we on this board are.

 

I've very seldom seen here what I would consider bashing of the public schools. In fact, it's nothing compared to what I've been told to my face by ps teachers who don't know me or my kids at all. This is a homeschool support board. Therefore, I don't think it's surprising people here value and support homeschooling over participating in the public school system. It has nothing to do with teachers or how hard they work or the job they do.

[Mekanamom]

One of my very best friends is a public school teacher, and I come from a large family of educators... cousins, aunts, uncles... public school teachers, school librarians & university professors. :D

 

So, no- I don't lump them all in to any kind of stereotype. I think all of my teacher friends and family are exceptional educators as a matter of fact.

 

When I do run across a public school teacher who lumps me in with whatever stereotype they have about homeschoolers (and it has happened), I'm initially very surprised. There was one who insisted that the public school schedule itself was more important than actually learning the material. That was one weird conversation.

 

In any case- I personally don't see different educational choices necessarily as an "us vs. them" thing. Just different choices. I rather expect the same courtesy in return.

[Jann in TX]

My Dad is a retired PS teacher (Band and History).

 

About 12 years ago when my sister (college drop out) decided to homeschool her 2 daughters he had a ROYAL FIT! He was MEAN and extremely CRITICAL to her--but she kept on going...

 

A few years later he 'retired' from teaching in PS and she asked him if he would give her dd's music lessons--and possibly a few of their friends... He thought that he was helping out the 'poor unfortunate' homeschoolers... Boy did he learn a hard lesson!

 

He now gives ME a hard time because my 2 youngest daughters attend PS!

 

I do not think one could possibly be more pro-homeschooling than my Dad. He has watched it work. He started Central Oklahoma Homeschool Bands and his passion is very evident. He breathes HOMESCHOOLING. He also teaches History at the University of Central Oklahoma--he says his best students are homeschoolers--or WERE homeschooled!

 

Any-hoooo this was just to say that PEOPLE can change--even stubborn people. Most people make hurtful remarks about homeschooling because of either ignorance --or they have only seen a 'problem family'.

 

I personally know a family who makes homeschooling look bad--as in their children cannot read/write/do math period by the time they are 18. I know MANY MANY more homeschooling families who have students on full-ride scholarships...

 

I also know students who attended PS (and CS) who were NOT well-educated--and I've also taught MANY MANY students who had an excellent education via PS and CS.

 

But I agree- I'm also a bit touchy with 'blanket' comments by homeschoolers against PS 'lovers' and PS 'lovers' against homeschoolers.

 

When someone (Like my FIL) gives me a hard time about homeschooling 'ruining' my dd I just chalk it up to HIS ignorance and move on. If I start in on the failures that a few PS/CS's have I only lower myself to his level on the topic.

[Alenee]

I realize that there are some public school teachers who tend to treat homeschooling parents as clueless nitwits who are destroying their children by not allowing them to "be socialized." I realize there are some public school teachers who are so uncertain of themselves that the only defense they have is to put others down.

 

Many of those "ignorant" public school teachers are just that, ignorant of what homeschooling actually is. They have no idea how it would work to teach just one, two, or six students. They have been taught how to do it the public school way. Otherwise they wouldn't have the teaching credentials.

 

But please, please, do not lump all public school teachers into this category. I know that there are others on this board who, like myself, were public school teachers before homeschooling. I know that there are others whose spouse/ significant other/ partner/ principal of the homeschool is a public school teacher.

 

Some have said before, each family makes its own decision for the education of each child. Not every child is going to fit well into public school. Not every child/ parent combination is a good match for homeschool. Not every family can work the schedule to accommodate jobs and school. Sadly, not every parent is able to or cares to be as involved in his/ her own child's education as we on this board are.

 

We need public school teachers to educate the students whose parents cannot or will not. We need public school teachers in those schools we all refer to - the stabbings, the shootings, the guns on campus, the drugs, the peer pressure, the "socialization" we are all avoiding for our own kids. We need them there to reach those students who are capable and motivated and will make a change in this world.

 

So please, please, before you criticize your sister, mother-in-law, uncle, cousin, neighbor who is a public school teacher and is bashing you for homeschooling... remember that they do have very real concerns. No, not the socialization of your kids, but of those 30 (elementary age) or 180 (middle school and high school) students they are given charge of 180 days a year. And it is easier for them to think they can make a difference in your family than in their own classrooms.

 

--Steff,

public school teacher

wife of a public school teacher

daughter of a public school teacher

niece of a public school teacher

sister-in-law of a public school teacher

sister of a public school substitute

product of public schools

 

You do have a point but I also agree with Nestof3.

 

Also, when the CA ruling came through the other day, someone posted the link. In that link (I believe it was on CHN's website) there was a link to what school teachers in support of homeschooling (who signed a support petition) are saying. It was pretty cool to read! I pity the teachers because most want to do a good job but because of the carp from *above* them, they have the hardest job in America.

[Old Dominion Heather]

Excuse me for asking, Mamasteff, but do you homeschool? Reading your signature, I wasn't sure. (I read your post assuming that you were a home educator, but then I wasn't sure... : ) I am not trying to imply that you don't and no offense is meant, I am just curious.

 

I am a former public school teacher and boy what you say about many PS teacher working their butts off is very true, but unfortunately the prejudice against home educators is also true.

 

I have never been offended by any remarks about teachers on this board. They are usually complaints about specific situations and unfortunately, I have taught with people just like those who parents love and those who inspire our wrath.

[nakitty]

I'm rather confused....WHERE did that come from???? LOL Did I miss a post or something?:001_huh:

[Alenee]

I'm rather confused....WHERE did that come from???? LOL Did I miss a post or something?:001_huh:

 

I believe it's stemming from the post about the cousin who is a school teacher condemning homeschooling w/o any concrete information to back up her beliefs.

[Pink Fairy]

Public school teachers are just like everyone else--some get homeschooling, some don't, and others don't know what to think. My dh is a ps teacher, and his coworkers know our children are hs'ed. No one has ever "confronted" him about it--they are either supportive or keep quiet.

 

Here's the problem. Some people--ps teachers, inlaws, friends, plumbers, pediatricians, etc.--feel that hsing is bad for kids. And they think they are obligated to share that feeling with hsing moms and dads. So I don't think anyone is picking on ps teachers, they're just fed up when other people--whatever their profession--make free to criticize their family's choice to hs.

[Happy]

Oh, I do hate to be chastised...especially when we haven't done the deed we are being accused of.

 

Ps teachers are hard working people. We have several in our extended family and appreciate their devotion to their work, however misguided they may be in their thinking about homeschooling.

 

However, we personally have run into the other kind, too. That's one of the reasons we homeschool. The first grade teacher who was incompetent (and fired after that year), the fourth grade teacher who told my grieving son to suck it up two weeks after his grand mother died, the sixth grade teacher who out and out lied to us--confirmed by the assistant principal. There are plenty of bad apples in the teacher barrel.

 

As a whole, the profession is dedicated and to be applauded. Just because someone is a teacher is no guarantee of their worth or integrity.

 

I don't think this board ever bashes teachers as a whole. I've been on some boards that have...but not here.

[katilac]

I

So please, please, before you criticize your sister, mother-in-law, uncle, cousin, neighbor who is a public school teacher and is bashing you for homeschooling... remember that they do have very real concerns.

 

--Steff,

 

 

While I think that lumping teachers, or any group, together is wrong, I also think that criticizing someone for bashing you is legitimate enough:D

 

Honestly, I've been on this board for years, and I've rarely seen truly negative, stereotyping posts about school teachers. As far as being bashed myself, the only truly negative comment I've gotten was from someone in administration - - the teachers are generally supportive (and yes, the negative comment was about socialization).

[Danestress]

and we all get along wonderfully well. I have never criticized anyone for being ps teacher, and I haven't noticed anyone else here doing that either.

 

 

So please, please, before you criticize your sister, mother-in-law, uncle, cousin, neighbor who is a public school teacher and is bashing you for homeschooling... remember that they do have very real concerns.

 

Nope. Sorry. Anyone who wants to bash me for homeschooling WILL be criticized for me - not for their status as PS teacher but for their actually behavior of "bashing" HSers. Because that's not cool. I'm a great teacher and don't really appreciate their "concern."

 

And actually, while their concerns may feel real to them, they aren't founded on a solid factual basis (in my case) so I am not obligated to take their concerns seriously. I actually don't think my children are any of their business.

 

But that's said not actually having any PS teacher in my life who "bash" me. I have a former PS teacher mother and sister, a PS teacher aunt, and a number of friends who teach in private and public schools. None of them bash me.

 

I really thing it's a mistake to bash other women for making decisions that are different from yours, even if you think they are a mistake. I have legitimate concerns about my friend's children. I think of of them work too much, neglect character training, allow too much (or too little freedom) and do other things that "concern" me. But I keep my mouth shut and will continue to do so unless I think something is true neglect/abuse. Because it's really none of my business. And having a teaching degree doesn't make my kids *their* business.

[dawn of ns]

Something like this happened on another homeschooling board I frequent and my response was something akin to that fac tthat these forums are our staff rooms. This is where we gather and let off steam and rant and complain at times. I'm darn sure the same thing goes on in teachers' lounges where the students and parents are the focus of the rants. It's not hateful, it's not something we do outside of this space. It's just some healthy venting so that when we step out into real life we're not wound up and ready to spring on the next poor teacher who looks at us sideways.

 

In truth, I find that my friends that are teachers are generally the most interested and supportive people I know when it comes to homeschooling. Still, I reserve the right to vent in a safe homeschooling space when I need to.

[Amy loves Bud]

Two of my biggest supporters are neighbors who are both high school teachers. They always say how great they think it is and comment positively on the homeschooled kids they've had enter their classes. I LOVE IT when they talk about it because it is so very encouraging.

 

The negatives I have heard have come from elementary teachers. I wonder if elementary teachers are more likely to oppose hsing, while high school teachers are more likely to support it? It would seem that elementary school teachers would be more idealistic about the future of their pupils, while the high school teachers more realistic about the challenges of a public school setting.

 

Anyway, I welcome the opportunity to discuss hsing with anyone who wants a real discussion, teacher or not. And I appreciate the PS teachers because they do an important job that I could never do!

 

Now if someone just wants to badmouth hsing without basis or discussion, I will just move on. There are not enough hours in the day for that.

[WTMindy]

I'm not sure where your post is coming from, but I was a highschool math teacher before having kids. I think almost all ps teachers have dealt with kids that are having a difficult time transitioning back into public school and maybe they generalize and maybe they don't. I know many who think it is a great thing and wish they had done it, and I know many who think it is a crazy idea!

[EKS]

I am, frankly, in awe of the public school teachers that I know. I have a hard enough time with just teaching my two, I can't even imagine having 25-30 in a classroom all with different backgrounds and needs and interests.

[Testimony]

Yes, I know that they work hard, etc. I am a product of public school. Homeschoolers are bashed constantly. Public school teachers have a huge organization that defends their causes. I guess I am confused.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

:confused:

[laylamcb]

I guess I didn't notice anyone lumping public school teachers together

 

:iagree: In fact, I'd say that because we're all teachers here, we have at least as much respect for the hard work that public school teachers do as the general population. :001_smile:

[6packofun]

:iagree: Goodness, they have a huge union to support their negative "official statements" on homeschooling; can't we just have a few forums to vent about very specific trials when dealing with the public school system or even rejoice that we don't have to be a part of it?

[Frankie]

So please, please, before you criticize your sister, mother-in-law, uncle, cousin, neighbor who is a public school teacher and is bashing you for homeschooling... remember that they do have very real concerns. No, not the socialization of your kids, but of those 30 (elementary age) or 180 (middle school and high school) students they are given charge of 180 days a year. And it is easier for them to think they can make a difference in your family than in their own classrooms.

 

 

 

 

So, how exactly do the concerns of their 30 or 180 students relate to my child? You're talking apples and oranges here. You're saying that it's all right for my sister-in-law to continue to bash me because she teaches the first grade and has 30 students, but I'm not allowed to complain about her bashing me because I homeschool.

 

I am sorry, but your argument doesn't work for me.

 

I know what you're getting at, but I still think it's unfair for me to not complain or, as I would put it, stand up for myself and my fellow homeschoolers to her. She's rude, she's uninformed, and she's a narrow-minded thinker.

 

It really scares me, honestly, to think that a public school teacher would have more concern about a homeschool family, and to think they could make a bigger difference in my family (or any homeschool family) than in their own classroom. Their job and complete focus should be their classroom. Period. That's not to say they can't have opinions about homeschooling, surely they can. But if they are at the point that they think that they can make a bigger difference in a single family than their classroom, then they ought not to be teaching any longer. I would pity their students.

 

That said, I have a lot of public school teachers in my family. All of them, with the exception of this particular sister-in-law and her husband, who is also a teacher, support homeschooling.

 

My son attended public school from kindergarten to the second grade. He had one horrid teacher, and two excellent teachers. I'm glad to sing the praises of the great teachers, and sing it loudly.

 

I tell you what, I'll meet you half way. I will watch what I say/type and try not to over-generalize about public school teachers and public school in general. However, I need the freedom to voice my opinion. And if that means criticizing a public school teacher who is talking negatively about homeschooling, please, be open enough to accept that I (and other homeschoolers) are entitled to our opinions and should be allowed to voice them.

[Joanne]

Some have said before, each family makes its own decision for the education of each child. Not every child is going to fit well into public school. Not every child/ parent combination is a good match for homeschool. Not every family can work the schedule to accommodate jobs and school. Sadly, not every parent is able to or cares to be as involved in his/ her own child's education as we on this board are.

 

 

Many of the posters here are "equal opportunity educators" and place value on and respect for all formal academic choices.

 

However, it *is* a homeschooling board. Inherent in many people's choice to homeschool is an anti school bias. Sometimes it's anti public school; sometimes it's anti institutional settings in general.

 

The nature of focused message boards is that you get an exaggerated view of people's experience. While the parents' board here covers many topics, our central gathering point is homeschooling. It stands to reason, then, that the posts you read will carry weight, passion and intensity that is not likely reflected to the same degree in the poster's real person life. I've seen it with homeschooling, natural parenting boards, Texas Hold Em forums and financial forums.

 

I have mixed feelings about schools/school teachers. Here, however, I should be able to express my frustrations and concerns, respectfully of course. On a homeschooling forum, I'd like to be able to talk about the reasons I think the public school system - and therefore its components including people - are flawed.

 

 

.

She told me that classical ed can only take you so far that you will have to switch to traditional methods.

 

The irony will have me giggling all day long! :lol:

[Snickerdoodle]

my response was something akin to that fact that these forums are our staff rooms.

 

 

I love this!

[Twinmom]

This debate reminds me of the one between working moms and stay at home moms. So many are sure that their choice is so much better than the choice of the other and feel free to share that with the "other side!" There is usually are good reasons for each person's choice (assuming here that the best interests of the child/family are being taken into account!). Perhaps it is better all around to respect the different choices we make, the jobs we hold and the reasons why we make our choices and leave it at that.

 

(ducking and running for cover now...:leaving:)

[Michelle in MO]

In any case- I personally don't see different educational choices necessarily as an "us vs. them" thing. Just different choices. I rather expect the same courtesy in return.

 

In my case, my best friend (who passed away 10 years ago) was a p.s. teacher, and she was fantastic! She was such a good friend to me, as well, and she was very supportive of all my questions about school (this was when our kids were little, when we were still trying to decide what to do). I know many, many fine public school teachers, and many in our area are Christians.

 

But, I would have to say that in my encounter with the friend I mentioned on the other thread (who happened to be a p.s. teacher) that she was consistently against our homeschooling and it seemed like she went out of her way to make pointed remarks to me about that fact. In return, I tried to be nothing but supportive of their family's choice to send their kids to p.s. I just found the discrepancy in our approaches to one another rather amazing.

 

My comments on the other thread were in no way intended to be a blanket condemnation of p.s. teachers, and I apologize if my remarks came across that way.

[Parrothead]

This debate reminds me of the one between working moms and stay at home moms. So many are sure that their choice is so much better than the choice of the other and feel free to share that with the "other side!" There is usually are good reasons for each person's choice (assuming here that the best interests of the child/family are being taken into account!). Perhaps it is better all around to respect the different choices we make, the jobs we hold and the reasons why we make our choices and leave it at that.

 

(ducking and running for cover now...:leaving:)

When put like that :iagree:

[Saille]

An editorial on the NEA board.

 

The NEA's 2007-2008 Homeschooling policy:

 

The National Education Association believes that home schooling programs based on parental choice cannot provide the student with a comprehensive education experience. When home schooling occurs, students enrolled must meet all state curricular requirements, including the taking and passing of assessments to ensure adequate academic progress. Home schooling should be limited to the children of the immediate family, with all expenses being borne by the parents/guardians. Instruction should be by persons who are licensed by the appropriate state education licensure agency, and a curriculum approved by the state department of education should be used. The Association also believes that home-schooled students should not participate in any extracurricular activities in the public schools. The Association further believes that local public school systems should have the authority to determine grade placement and/or credits earned toward graduation for students entering or re-entering the public school setting from a home school setting.

I am an ex-public school teacher, and I've seen both very good and very bad teachers. I've also seen very good and very bad homeschoolers. That said, I don't feel obligated to pussyfoot around when someone bashes homeschooling, or my decision to do so. On a national level, public school teachers are adopting policies intended to assist them in cornering the market on educating children; there is a movement among public school teachers to deprive me of the right to engage in best practice, to limit my curricular options to theirs, and ultimately to deprive me of the right to homeschool at all. I will not allow them to do so, nor will I feed the flames by being deferential when they make rude and ignorant comments. Likewise, when someone says to me, "Well, it's all right for YOU to homeschool: you're a TEACHER," I do not do you the disservice of agreeing. I make it clear that my credentials are not my qualifications, if you see what I mean.

 

WRT the teacher's comments about classical ed. upthread, I think that many, many teachers who are anti-homeschooling have absolutely no clue how much more comprehensive the scope and sequence of the average WTM-er's homeschool is than theirs. And believe me, it is. By the time each goal gets parsed down into eight objectives which are all measurable by scan-tron, the average district's academic goals baby-step children through every tiny detail of a topic...which drastically reduces how many topics one can actually cover. (In my experience, it also decimates student initiative.) Not to mention all the topics which must be covered because students spend their days cut off from everyday life experiences. I'm not talking about state standards and benchmarks...in many states, state standards and benchmarks tend to be applied skills, and there's a distinct lack of hard data on those because you can't measure them easily with standardized tests.

 

Many teachers do not teach to these standards, or even bother to look at them. They teach using the curricular materials the district has purchased, and they teach to the standardized tests. Why doesn't this worry the people who teach this way? Because being part of a school gives one a sense of confidence, of being under the mantle of authority, in a way that can breed complacency. Therein lies the seed of the know-it-all attitude many teachers turn on homeschoolers.

 

Yes, there are bright, imaginative, wonderful teachers. My kids are home in part because even a ratio of one terrific teacher every four years seemed dangerously low...and I think that would have been a high expectation. Any teacher who wants to decry homeschooling had better have some pretty extensive experience with the topic, or I'm going to write them off. I don't think I owe anyone an apology for refusing to tolerate his or her unsubstantiated opinion.

[CLHCO]

Just because someone is a teacher is no guarantee of their worth or integrity.

 

 

I admit that was an eye opener for me when I was in college, training to be a public school teacher. (Something that never came about though.) Public school teachers are people, some good, some not so good, but many in the world would have you believe they are all the most self-sacrificing lot out there and we can't criticize them.

 

I have found some very dedicated teachers who loved the art. I've seen as many, probably more, who do it for a "job" and hate it. I don't lump them all together, though I will admit it chafes me just a bit when I hear the fawning over them automatically because they're public school teachers. Again, it's not to suggest they are all poor or all wonderful, but that they are people. Homeschooling boards are one of the few places public school teacher bashing is even likely, and I don't see it much, myself.

 

The public schools are something I will lump and criticize, due to the nature of the beast as a massive, impersonal government program. However, I do try to be completely graceful if someone chooses personally to utilize the schools or even work there. After all, the Department of Homeland Security provided my husband's paycheck a year ago, but that didn't mean I was happy about everything the government was doing. Needing the system our society is built around for what is best for your children or family at a given moment is understandable. It's why I shop at WalMart. :P

[dirty ethel rackham]

I agree. Several public school teachers bashed homeschooling so badly to my mom that they caused a rift between her and me. This took several years to heal. I met one of them recently. She still bashed homeschooling to me even though my kids are doing very well academically and have better emotional maturity than most kids. She thinks that because two of my kids are on the shy side that I have failed them. Well, I was 10 times more shy (and seriously emotionally messed up due to the bullying I experienced right under their noses) than my children.

 

I do not lump all public school teachers together, just those who are arrogant enough to remain ignorant of homeschooling in this day and age. BTW, several of my homeschooling mom friends are married to excellent public school teachers.

[Tammyla]

I've been on the board for years and don't understand your post, I never noticed a group animosity towards public school teachers.

 

[Mamasteff]

It's really helping me to clarify my thinking. Thanks for the kind (and maybe the not so kind) reputation, too.

 

First of all, I do educate my children at home, and am going into my 7th year of doing so. I love teaching my girls. It is the most rewarding teaching I have ever done.

 

I am also a public school teacher. I used to have a classroom. Now, I work for a virtual school, in which I coach parents who do not feel as comfortable with homeschooling as many of us on the board do. I am in California, and there are a lot of parents who feel uncomfortable with the idea of doing it themselves, especially in light of the recent court issues. There are others who believe the information spread by teachers' unions (which tend to be a very vocal 52% of teachers).

 

I don't mind you defending yourself to those who criticize your well-thought-out decision to homeschool. The problem I have is when, on this board, the person is described in terms such as, "and she's a public school teacher!" It has been extremely unusual for me to see someone say, "My father in law doesn't like it, and he is a plumber!" So I guess what bothers me is that we (as a group) tend to label and expect more of public school teachers than we do of the general population.

 

I agree that there are many in the general population (data entry operators, gas station attendants, television producers, etc.) who really shouldn't be criticizing your decision to homeschool. Maybe the bigger problem with public school teachers is that they have something in common - education - and so they feel like they have a better background from which to argue, and may be more likely to bring it up.

 

I would suggest, though, that a public school teacher telling you how to homeschool might be akin to a dairy farmer telling you how to raise a flock of sheep - yes you might both be in the same "type" of business, but not all of the advice is going to translate from one type of animal to the other (and please forgive the analogy - can someone come up with a better one? School children are not cows, and homeschoolers are not sheep, I know! I know!)

 

I agree that this board is a great place to get support and to vent - all I'm saying is, look at the labels you use before you post them. If you wouldn't say "My hairdresser was criticizing me..." then it might not be appropriate to say "My public school teacher friend was criticizing me..." Sometimes it makes sense in the story, but...

 

I have been there! I have sat at the table with everyone in my family, most of whom are school teachers, listening to them rant for hours about this student or that issue at their schools. But I have learned to never say "Gee, that was one reason we decided to homeschool." Oh, no, never! Everyone does need a place to blow off steam and whether it's the table in my mom's backyard, or this board, I would never say "don't blow off the steam." Just... I needed to blow off steam too, okay? The public schools are what allow my family financially to make this choice, after all. Thanks!

[Joanne]

I would suggest, though, that a public school teacher telling you how to homeschool might be akin to a dairy farmer telling you how to raise a flock of sheep - yes you might both be in the same "type" of business, but not all of the advice is going to translate from one type of animal to the other (and please forgive the analogy - can someone come up with a better one? School children are not cows, and homeschoolers are not sheep, I know! I know!)

 

 

 

 

Mamasteff,

 

Actually, I think this analogy is a great one for the situation! :iagree:

 

Your post(s) and perspective carry a great deal of kindness, grace, and class.

 

I am a bit more across the board against how instititional learning has progressed and a bit more jaded about the persons who make up those institutions. I'm also vocal if the topic comes up. Here, at least! I don't talk about homeschooling much at all in my person life.

 

But your post impressed me about you. :grouphug:

[Pink Fairy]

If you wouldn't say "My hairdresser was criticizing me..." then it might not be appropriate to say "My public school teacher friend was criticizing me..." Sometimes it makes sense in the story, but...

 

 

Funny, but I could totally see myself saying something along the lines of "You wouldn't believe what my hairdresser said to me about hsing!" or "The nerve of the plumber to tell me I'm wrong to hs!" In reality, I've never once in 7 years needed to defend hsing to anyone--no one has ever said anything negative about it in my presence. Clearly I live in bubble. ;)

 

I appreciate your last post--it really cleared up what you were trying to express with your original post. I've never noticed any teacher bashing on this board before, but then I think we define it differently. :001_smile:

[Nestof3]

Steff,

 

I think the reason many people mention the fact the the anti-homeschooler is a public school teacher is because the position does lead to much of the bias. I know for a fact that some public school teachers are annoyed that they have so much red tape to deal with and that they feel they had to go to school for 4-6 years to do what they do, and they do not feel that someone should be able to teach while having fewer requirements put on them. I know for a fact that some feel threatened and challenged by homeschoolers. Often the fact that the naysayer is a public school teacher has much to do with WHY the person is against homeschooling.

 

I just wanted to comment on this statement, though:

So I guess what bothers me is that we (as a group) tend to label and expect more of public school teachers than we do of the general population.

 

When it comes to education, yes, I do expect more from a public school teacher. They should strive to know more about educating children than those in other professions. Public school teachers should have spent time studying child development and educational philosophies. When I hear a public school teacher say that a homeschooled student should spend the same number of hours a day being educated as those in a classroom environment, I know then and there that the person is not speaking with any understanding of the process of educating but from other motives.

 

I know other classroom educators, one being a friend of mine who teaches advanced calculus and other higher math courses in a private school in California, who speaks very highly of my home educating. He said he had two homeschooled boys who came to his school their senior year. He commented that they were very mature and successful in the course. He does not feel a bit threatened or annoyed by homeschoolers. He is willing to look at the art of educating over the bureaucracy of it. We discuss methods and philosophy all the time. We share resource ideas with one another. He is very passionate about educating and I have the most respect for him.

 

I have respect for educators -- all kinds. But, I do expect opinions about education to have true merit, not just prejudice. I have even donated boxes of educational materials and posters to my neighborhood elementary school.

[Saille]

So I guess what bothers me is that we (as a group) tend to label and expect more of public school teachers than we do of the general population.

 

I think that teachers who are knee-jerk opponents of homeschooling invite that comparison. If they are unwilling to consider homeschooling as a viable alternative option, then they themselves believe that they are capable of more than the general population. I think they should be able to back up that opinion some other way than by being their own sacred cows.

[lovemyboys]

 

But I agree- I'm also a bit touchy with 'blanket' comments by homeschoolers against PS 'lovers' and PS 'lovers' against homeschoolers.

 

QUOTE]

 

I personally dislike the term "educrats" that I hear thrown around. I realize it's more for the administrative staff than the actual teachers but in some uses it's for anyone in public education. That seems to just set up a very antagonistic mindset from the get-go. And it's often used by people who have had very little or no problems at all with their notices and other dealings with govt. education system. They just like the term and its negative connotations.

 

Your sister (inlaw?) must be an amazing woman to withstand that kind of pressure and keep with it. Way to go. Our family had a similar turnaround but not nearly as dramatic with some inlaws. It makes my life here much easier!;)

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree that there are many in the general population (data entry operators, gas station attendants, television producers, etc.) who really shouldn't be criticizing your decision to homeschool. Maybe the bigger problem with public school teachers is that they have something in common - education - and so they feel like they have a better background from which to argue, and may be more likely to bring it up.

 

THEY may feel they have a better position from which to argue than the gas station attendant but *I* do not. That's really the crux of the problem.

 

I agree that this board is a great place to get support and to vent - all I'm saying is, look at the labels you use before you post them. If you wouldn't say "My hairdresser was criticizing me..." then it might not be appropriate to say "My public school teacher friend was criticizing me..." Sometimes it makes sense in the story, but...

 

I have *often* said "the gas station attendant" or "checker at Wal-Mart" was questioning me. It's descriptive. It's not automatically a slam against all teachers in a breath. The fact that you take it that way when you don't take "you won't believe what the pumber said to me" as a slam against all plumbers is telling.

 

IJust... I needed to blow off steam too, okay? The public schools are what allow my family financially to make this choice, after all. Thanks!

 

And I understand that.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

as do most people. ;)

 

I just want to say that I know two public school teachers personally. One is a friend I grew up with that is now a Reading Specialist and the other is my MIL who taught math for 30 years.

 

One has a very negative view of home schoolers and covertly quizzes home schooled children and makes comments like "don't you want to go to REAL school and be with your friends?" and the other is very supportive often looking over my curricula and raving about how thorough it is and what a great education my dc are getting at home.

 

So, I don't believe that generalizations about either choice are legitimate. My opinions are my own and I never assume anyone agrees with them. Ultimately, I am the parent and the buck stops here. Everyone else is BTWwelcome to share their opinions, but.....

 

K

(scroll down if you are interested in who is supportive and who is not.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, Mother in Law is the supportive one.

[Mrs Mungo]

One has a very negative view of home schoolers and covertly quizzes home schooled children and makes comments like "don't you want to go to REAL school and be with your friends?"

 

Oh. My. Gosh. You don't not even want to know what would happen if someone said this to my child. It would be SO ugly.

[fractalgal]

An editorial on the NEA board.

 

The NEA's 2007-2008 Homeschooling policy:

 

I am an ex-public school teacher, and I've seen both very good and very bad teachers. I've also seen very good and very bad homeschoolers. That said, I don't feel obligated to pussyfoot around when someone bashes homeschooling, or my decision to do so. On a national level, public school teachers are adopting policies intended to assist them in cornering the market on educating children; there is a movement among public school teachers to deprive me of the right to engage in best practice, to limit my curricular options to theirs, and ultimately to deprive me of the right to homeschool at all. I will not allow them to do so, nor will I feed the flames by being deferential when they make rude and ignorant comments. Likewise, when someone says to me, "Well, it's all right for YOU to homeschool: you're a TEACHER," I do not do you the disservice of agreeing. I make it clear that my credentials are not my qualifications, if you see what I mean.

 

WRT the teacher's comments about classical ed. upthread, I think that many, many teachers who are anti-homeschooling have absolutely no clue how much more comprehensive the scope and sequence of the average WTM-er's homeschool is than theirs. And believe me, it is. By the time each goal gets parsed down into eight objectives which are all measurable by scan-tron, the average district's academic goals baby-step children through every tiny detail of a topic...which drastically reduces how many topics one can actually cover. (In my experience, it also decimates student initiative.) Not to mention all the topics which must be covered because students spend their days cut off from everyday life experiences. I'm not talking about state standards and benchmarks...in many states, state standards and benchmarks tend to be applied skills, and there's a distinct lack of hard data on those because you can't measure them easily with standardized tests.

 

Many teachers do not teach to these standards, or even bother to look at them. They teach using the curricular materials the district has purchased, and they teach to the standardized tests. Why doesn't this worry the people who teach this way? Because being part of a school gives one a sense of confidence, of being under the mantle of authority, in a way that can breed complacency. Therein lies the seed of the know-it-all attitude many teachers turn on homeschoolers.

 

Yes, there are bright, imaginative, wonderful teachers. My kids are home in part because even a ratio of one terrific teacher every four years seemed dangerously low...and I think that would have been a high expectation. Any teacher who wants to decry homeschooling had better have some pretty extensive experience with the topic, or I'm going to write them off. I don't think I owe anyone an apology for refusing to tolerate his or her unsubstantiated opinion.

 

My mom has been a public school teacher for 35+ years, and she has NEVER joined the teacher's union. Many teachers are pressured to join it, but some resist. I admire the fact that she has the backbone not to join this union.

[RebeccaC]

My file head of the richest ps school district until he retired. His reply when we started using was that we were robing some one of their career. There was no interest in what would be best for our kids just that some teacher some where who went to school would be denied their right to teach.

 

It has been my experience that the plumber who doesn't like hsing says less that the person employed by the public school system. My hair dressers' reply was I could never do that. Not a lecture about socialization, or depriving some adult of their career, or an examination of what my child knows, or a phone call to some friend in admin in our school district to prove that the local district was really competent to meet our sons needs, which it was not not. When I started using our oldest son was brain deaf, mute, had severe vision problems, and had a nonverbal IQ near 150. I could type out the horror story of what happened to my 3 year old in port is developmental preschool and how the some of the po folks thought they could get away with abuse because my son was mute but I won't because it is anecdotal.

 

We have all kinds of family members who were either in admin or were teachers in all levels of public education. Some were for us hsing and some were not. What has been my experience is that teachers and admin folks take it more personal than the plumber, waitress, or....... On the other hand the plumber has quite a bit to say when some one tries to do their own plumbing and my hairdressers has ridicule folks who dye their own hair. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out why the plumber and hairdresser have the attitudes they have. They are after all the professional...... Of course not all plumber or hairdressers have this attitude but many do.

 

If there is a prejudice on this board against ps teachers, and it is my opinion there is not, it is because some have brought on themselves with their attitude, professionalism. Just like my hairdresser does when she openly ridicules the home dyer. I wonder if your post has more to do with how you read the posts than it does with what is posted. That you are filtering through your current job in the system and are taking personally what was never meant to be personal. I don't know if that is true but it is how I read your posts.

[Barb_]

Steff, you have been nothing but gracious in defending your opinion, so I hope I won't offend if I ask you to clarify your original stance. Your OP was titled, "In defense of public school teachers," but I'm having trouble figuring out what, exactly you are defending. Their right to make comments? Or are you asking for patience for their foibles because they don't understand homeschooling as well as they think they do? Or their right to be concerned because their experience with children (as opposed to an individual child) is greater and they should be given deference?

 

There are many former and even current ps and private school teachers on this board...as a matter of fact someone should start a poll...and in general it seems like people understand the complaints to be against a system that is largely broken and a culture that is pretty hostile to homeschoolers, not toward any individual on this board or in our own personal lives.

 

Barb

[Saille]

My mom has been a public school teacher for 35+ years, and she has NEVER joined the teacher's union. Many teachers are pressured to join it, but some resist. I admire the fact that she has the backbone not to join this union.

 

In my last district, there was a "fair share" union policy. Basically, you paid some portion of dues whether you were an NEA member or not, so we had almost 100% enrollment. I did see the union do some very good things, such as encouraging an overall higher standard of professional development and agitating for quality health insurance. They also did a great job of advocating for major changes in (or the scrapping of) NCLB. That said, their policy on hs'ing is all about the preservation of an institution, which, as we discussed above, some parents will always need...so I find their militant anti-hs'ing stance ill-considered.

[Mamasteff]

Steff, you have been nothing but gracious in defending your opinion, so I hope I won't offend if I ask you to clarify your original stance. Your OP was titled, "In defense of public school teachers," but I'm having trouble figuring out what, exactly you are defending. Their right to make comments? Or are you asking for patience for their foibles because they don't understand homeschooling as well as they think they do? Or their right to be concerned because their experience with children (as opposed to an individual child) is greater and they should be given deference?

 

Thank you for asking - I'm not offended at all. I *think* what I am wanting to ask for is an understanding that, just as we (homeschoolers) do not all teach the same curriculum the same way, neither do "all" public school teachers or "the system" have the same view of homeschooling, classical education, teaching handwriting in the classroom or....

 

I seem to read at least a few threads a week that fall under the heading "Can you believe what this public school teacher said to me?" Before anyone jumps in ... I have also seen one or two "Can you believe what my pastor said to me?" and "Can you believe what the lady at WM said to me?" threads. But there seem to be a lot more "and she's a public school teacher!" thrown in than old ladies at WM. (To be fair, the "-in-law said to me" is indeed the majority of complaints).

 

It is very interesting to me that some people replying have taken my OP as a criticism of their own posting or attitudes. I did not write this in response to one particular poster or one particular thread - honestly, the pattern built up over the past several months and I wanted to say something about it.

 

I am sure that my current position colors my viewpoint - but which one?

1) Current Homeschool Teacher

2) Current Public Charter School Teacher, trying to help other parents in their homeschooling journeys

3) Current Wife of a Public School Teacher

 

I know that, having begun this fabulous quest for knowledge with my favorite girls in the whole world, I am not in any hurry to end it, and in fact I will invite along as may others as I can, giving them a hand while they are learning to trust themselves in the process. It doesn't matter how much education, or how many credentials, the nitpickers/ nitwits throw at us- each of us on this board has proven time and again that we are on the journey because WE are the experts on our children, we know them best, we love them best, and we want what's best for them. I spend more time with the parents in my class than I do the students, encouraging them to trust themselves, and that they know what they are doing.

 

One of my favorite things about this board is being able to develop kinder, gentler, more positive answers that will hopefully help turn at least a few people from "anti" to "pro" homeschoolers. I really don't want to live up to the stereotype of being anti-society, so I need a place where I can learn from those of you with more grace how to kindly respond and pass the bean dip.

[fractalgal]

In my last district, there was a "fair share" union policy. Basically, you paid some portion of dues whether you were an NEA member or not, so we had almost 100% enrollment. I did see the union do some very good things, such as encouraging an overall higher standard of professional development and agitating for quality health insurance. They also did a great job of advocating for major changes in (or the scrapping of) NCLB. That said, their policy on hs'ing is all about the preservation of an institution, which, as we discussed above, some parents will always need...so I find their militant anti-hs'ing stance ill-considered.

Because of the teacher's unions, someone like Bill Gates is not "qualified" to teach public school students in a Computer Science class. I am not a fan of them.

[Jennifer3141]

I don't see any comments bashing teachers here. :confused:

 

I will say that all teachers I know personally now all homeschool their kids - and the majority of those are unschoolers.

 

Jen

[Mrs Mungo]

You know...I've been thinking about this and I think it's one of those issues of raised awareness. Like when you hear orange is the new pink and suddenly you're hyper-aware of all the people wearing orange. I don't think I've seen people say "my sister who is a ps teacher said..." any more frequently than I've seen "my pastor/plumber/gas station attendant said..." but maybe you (the OPer) are hyper-aware of the ps teacher comments because of your individual situation.