Why are we fat? (I mainly mean Americans, but anyone can postulate.)

[Rosie_0801]

Here the season is very short and it is a hit or miss weather wise.  We have had soaking rains almost every day for like a month here.  Seriously.  There isn't much you can do to deal with that.

This is where heirloom veggies come in handy. It's the middle of winter here, it can get down to -2C over night (so frosty, but no snow) and I have tomatoes flowering in the shade house. They are a variety called 'Siberian,' which have a growing period of 50 days, not that I remembered to count. :p The shade house was constructed mostly out of junk from the tip. I planted these tomatoes back in Autumn, and fully expected them to have died of cold by now.

 

But yeah, it takes time to learn to garden to suit your environment. I've hardly got anything growing in mine, whereas my aunt has more than she knows what to do with, and all she seems to do is throw seeds around and see what grows. ;p

[Jean in Newcastle]

So since nobody wants to place responsibility in the lap of the adult who is eating too much of the wrong things, what do you suggest is the solution?  Even if you give them greens and such, they will just throw them in the garbage because they don't like them or don't know what to do with them.  So I guess regardless of the reasons for obesity, it's a moot question, since nothing is going to change because nobody is responsible.  I think I get it.

 

Of course, some people eat the wrong things.  Of course, some people eat too much of the wrong or even the right things.   But as others have pointed out, we have to be responsible for ourselves.  That may mean getting better information that fits our body.  I just had a doctor's appointment an hour ago where the doctor was sure that I had lost weight because my body was that much less swollen and puffy since going off of nightshades.  I had been following generic advice to eat more salads (including tomatoes and peppers) and to use eggplant as a base for lasagna instead of noodles.  Ooops.  Wrong advice for me - though excellent advice for most people out there.  

 

Lots of people are changing their diets.  The show The Biggest Loser might not be the best due to some practices that just aren't healthy or doable for the average person, but those people are motivated and have changed their diets and their exercise habits.  There are other shows like that - one of the recent winners of Biggest Loser, Ali Vincent, has her own show where she works with people.  A man, I can't remember his name, works with morbidly obese people to lose weight.  Dr. Phil was doing something like that for awhile.  If you spend anytime in the checkout lanes,  you will see testimonials from people who have changed their diets and have lost weight.  Our Y has great support for people of all sizes who come in for help, including a free consultation with a nutritionist and a personal trainer.  And people do sign up for it.  Does that mean that everyone is signing up for these things?  No.  But many do.  And you don't know just by passing someone on the street whether they are a work in progress or not.  

[justamouse]

-Insulin resistance is more prevalent than many people realize. That is closely tied to metabolic syndrome, which affects a substantial % of adults. Yet most adults don't seem to know that IR and metabolic syndrome are closely related. Most people I know think insulin is only an issue if you are fat and type 2 diabetic. Most people I know also assume only the overweight get type 2 diabetes, and only the overweight folks need to be concerned about IR. I'm a normal weight woman with PCOS and some IR tendencies, with a family history of metabolic syndrome type of issues. I very much believe that many people have the IR tendencies before they get fat.

 

-Most people overeat. I do think this is closely intertwined with the above. If you are on the more IR end of the spectrum, eating carbs causes your body to pump out too much insulin, and then you end up with lower blood sugar afterward. For me, this means a carby snack or meal results in being hungrier than if I hadn't eaten in the first place. So I think controlling the insulin can make portion control more attainable for many people, and I think that simplifying it to mere "willpower" is really a disservice to those who are overweight. I think many kids and adults eat carby snacks all day long and are never satiated. I think many people would feel much more in control of their appetite without feeling deprived if they were not afraid to consume dietary fats and some protein.

 

-We are too sedentary, but the flip side is that I don't think exercise leads to as much weight loss as many people think. Taubes has some info on this as well. That doesn't mean exercise isn't beneficial to overall health or that some people can't lose weight by exercising, but I think we've oversold how much it helps people with weight loss. Many people just amp up their calorie intake when they exercise. To burn a serious number of calories, in general, it takes a LOT of exercise, and I think that's more than most people will ever carve time out for. Again, I totally think exercise has wonderful benefits, but I think we've sort of oversold the benefit of a little half hour walk as a *calorie burning* thing, you know? However, yes, there was a time when a large number of people had very physically demanding jobs where they worked their bodies all day long. Farming, construction, manual labor all probably helped keep some of that insulin sensitivity.

 

-Environmental estrogens/obesogens. BPA has been tied to central adiposity and insulin resistance in men, for example. edited to add: There's also interplay with this and genetics (epigenetics). What your grandmother or great grandmother was exposed to in terms of famine, scarcity of food, or chemical exposures may shape your tendency toward insulin resistance, for example.

 

-Portion sizes are insane. But again, I think if most people were consuming more fat and protein with their meals, they'd feel sated sooner and would have an easier time self-regulating.

 

-Loss of cooking skills, prevalence of quick food that is nutritionally devoid. Most people are running, running, running like crazy, particularly those with kids in school, sports, and other activities.

 

-Advice to eat 6 small meals a day ironically keeps some people riding the blood sugar rises and falls all day long. There's some newer research saying perhaps we need to encourage 3 a day again. I think this is also intertwined a bit with the idea about whether intermittent fasting is beneficial for preserving insulin sensitivity. Not to mention every single kid activity has to have a snack or multiple snacks, and they are usually garbage. When my son was playing little league, there was team snack, game day snack, kids eating team snack plus hitting the snack shack and ice cream afterward. THat's a lot of snacks ;) and it isn't as if the kids were burning hundreds and hundreds of calories playing baseball at that age. They swing, hit the ball, run a bit, and spend a lot of time standing out in the field doing nothing at that age. Schools have multiple parties for holidays, birthdays, etc.

 

-My local school district only stopped providing funnel cake as a breakfast option 3 years ago. I wish I was kidding. Then a kid eats that and is probably literally starving an hour later as his blood sugar plummets due to the insulin rise. I think there are a whole lot of overweight kids who actually are chronically hungry because of the insulin spikes they get with their meals. Many kids today are eating breakfast, lunch, and snack at school, and we know that most school options are probably awful for a kid with any tendency toward obesity or insulin resistance.

:iagree:

[Violet Crown]

Violet Crown, I'm curious what city you live in? :) I agree with you that culture has a big influence. My facebook feed is full of food and health talk.

Search "Violet Crown" on Wikipedia. ;)

[PeacefulChaos]

So if you weighed 300 pounds you wouldn't at least consider the possibility that something in your diet isn't quite right?  Maybe do a little internet reading at the library, or ask someone you trust?  I mean, it wouldn't occur to you that that might be a good idea?  At some point an adult who has received many years of free public education can be expected to take some responsibility.  If they don't, then it's on them IMO.  Eating whatever you want is a valid choice, but at some point you have to own the consequences.

 

I'm not clear who you are talking to here, because I didn't see anyone say anything like this....

It is funny for me to think of people not being able to peel potatoes.  I can peel enough for my family of 4 (2 big boys and one big man) in about 10 min.  Of course then I fry them because they are just yummy that way.

:D  It's quite the point of making fun of me at family gatherings.

I think if I practiced enough, I could probably get faster at it.  But I never do practice lol... the practicing takes too long.   :lol:

So we eat potatoes when my grandparents come to visit.  She'll make homemade mashed potatoes.  And gravy.  Two things I don't know how to make.   :)

 

For Peaceful Chaos: Veggies

 

Patty-Pan Squash. Oh, honey-babes, these are so delicious! Slice them into circles about 1/4" thick. Heat some Olive Oil and/or Butter in a large saute pan or skillet. (Medium heat) Place them in the pan and listen to them sizzle. Sprinkle salt and pepper over them. After about 3 minutes or so, use a pancake turner/spatula to flip them to their other side. Sprinkle more seasoning if you want. Pan-sear them for another 3 minutes. Serve. Turn off the burner!

 

Fresh Green Beans. I love this method. Get out a medium saucepan filled a little more than half-way with water. Bring the water to a boil. If the Green Beans still have little "tails" on them, cut them off; wash them. Once the water boils, stick the beans in for about 5 minutes. They don't have to boil all to heck, but you are blanching them. They should still be firm. Pour them into a strainer. Sprinkle them with Olive Oil and Sea Salt. YUM! Love it.

 

Carrots. If I'm cooking carrots, I most often steam them. I have an electric veggie steamer. Very worthy appliance. I've used it a million times. I use a veg peeler to skin the carrots - hold the fat end, apply the peeler and kick off the strip. Turn as you go. Chop off the top. Cut into "coins" or sticks. Put some water in the bottom of the steamer. Steam for about 15 minutes or whatever the directions on the steamer say. I like a little dill sprinkled on the cooked carrots; dh is always determined to butter them, but I usually don't.

 

Zucchini/Squash with tomatoes. I make the heck out of this all summer. I have too many zucchini as always. Take a few squash that are medium-sized; slice off the top. Cut them into circles about 1/4" thick. You can again cut them in semi-circles if they are large. Take half an onion. Sweet, yellow or red; all are good. Peel off the fragile skin, cut off the ends. Cut into circle, then chop the opposite way until you have small dices. For the tomatoes, you can cut up whole fresh tomatoes or use a can of diced tomatoes. Either way. Heat up olive oil/butter in a skillet. (Medium) Put the onion in; let it cook but not burn. After a couple of minutes, throw in the squash/zukes. Salt, pepper and/or add oregano and basil, fresh or dry. If fresh, I use a few leaves. If dry, I use about a teaspoon or so. Saute that for a few mintues. When it starts to get soft, add the tomatoes. If you have fresh garlic, smash it, take off the skin and put that in there, too. Saute the whole mess and then turn down the heat to low. Let the wetter aspect of the tomatoes evaporate. This is an awesome side, or you can serve it over rice or pasta or you can throw some meat in there and make it a meal. Very nutritious, especially if you have fresh herbs.

 

THANKS!!!   :D   :party:  I copied this whole post and put it in a pages document on the computer.  

 I'm planning on hitting the farm stand tomorrow so I'll see what veggies they have.   :)

 

I have to laugh, because on time, my SIL and I were talking (arguing) about making dinners and I said I make mashed potatoes a lot and she said, "What? That takes like an HOUR!" I was like, "Huh??" I still don't know what the heck could possibly take her an hour in making potatoes! Maybe it's the peeling.

 

Oh, yeah, I think mashed take forever.  You have to boil them, which in itself takes like, 20-30 minutes, right?  And on top of that, with my peeling skills, I would have to go in the kitchen to start cooking at like 3:00 to have dinner ready at 5:30-6.  (slight exaggeration)  And after you boil them, you have to mix them and such... lol... And you have to cook everything else, too.  

Granted, a lot of this has to do with the fact that I don't like making meals that have separate things.  Like, we don't do a meat, a veggie, a starch, etc, separately.  I throw it all together usually, because I hate dishes, and separate stuff makes more pots/pans to clean.  

:D

I'm lazy and don't peel the potatoes  .  I eye them and cut any spots off after a nice wash but then they all go into the pot.  I've never met a mashed potato, french fry, oven fry, roasted potato or whatnot that was inedible with the skin on.  

 

I have considered doing that.  Do I need anything special to wash them well?  One of those brush things?  How do I know they are good?  

For those of you that do your own fries, how do you do that?  Do you cut them yourself with a knife or do you have a special contraption that will do it for you?  Because if it's a special contraption, that starts to get into the realm of just not having enough space in the kitchen.   :(

I do love potatoes seasoned with butter and garlic and cooked in the oven.  Or sliced thin with parmesan and garlic - they are DELISH.  

Surprisingly, I do actually know how to cook potatoes lol... I just don't like the amount of time it takes.   :)

So since nobody wants to place responsibility in the lap of the adult who is eating too much of the wrong things, what do you suggest is the solution?  Even if you give them greens and such, they will just throw them in the garbage because they don't like them or don't know what to do with them.  So I guess regardless of the reasons for obesity, it's a moot question, since nothing is going to change because nobody is responsible.  I think I get it.

Again, not sure who you are talking to here... as I haven't seen anyone say that...

[justamouse]

 

[Murphy101]

Violet Crown, I'm curious what city you live in? :) I agree with you that culture has a big influence. My facebook feed is full of food and health talk.

Yes. My neighborhood is "safe" enough, but you are taking your life in your hands to bike or walk the main streets. There's not enough shoulder, much less a lane or path. It brings traffic to a crawl when someone bikes or walks on the roads bc everyone has to go über slow to be extra careful they go between the person and oncoming traffic. Kids are dropped off within about 10-15 houses apart. Which I think is ridiculous. I can see stopping at the entrance to each housing addition, but every block? That's silly. I walked everywhere as a kid and so do my kids and people comment all the time that I must be awfully free range.

 

And yet, I see nothing wrong with talking food to my friends. I'm blogging and FB my whole30 this month bc the first question is "what DO you eat?!" LOL and when I was landscaping and putting up the pool, that's what I talked about. And when I'm crocheting, I talk about that. *shrug* I think people talk about what is interesting to them and friends tend to share some interests.

 

Though I hate going to Whole Paycheck. My motto for grocery shopping in general is, "Get in and get out ASAP." Now Dh? He is a foodie. He couldn't wait to go to Sprouts when they opened up in town because he really liked them on his business trips.

 

My bigger issue with food culture is people eat all the time everywhere. Money withdrawal? Would your kid like a sucker? Scouts that meets for an hour? Gotta start off with a snack. Or they gotta have a drink. Water is not enough. Must make pop, juice, Gatorade available. Drives me batty.

[PeacefulChaos]

Speaking of the sugary drink thing.... when my kids were little, like, super little - 2 years old and under - I would send water with them to the nursery at church.  They couldn't drink apple juice because it affected them...very, Very, VERY badly.   :ack2:  Just one little cup and...ugh.  It was awful.

Anyway, at the nursery I would always tell people, 'Hey, Link/Astro/Pink can't have apple juice, there is water in his/her cup in the bag.'

Sometimes, they still had apple juice.  I could always tell, sometimes before we even left the church.  

Sigh... :p  Glad those days are over!!

 

ETA: DH thinks our family is weird compared to others because our kids get milk with dinner.  Is that not the norm?  Lol... they have milk in their cereal (if that's what they have in the morning) and a small (8oz) cup at dinner.  The rest of the time they drink water, occasionally we have some juice on hand.  But yeah, he thinks most people don't drink that much milk...  ???

[justamouse]

I think none of it matters. I really believe Peter Attia is on the right trail. 
 

I am between 125 and 130 and I am fighting metabolic syndrome and diabetes. I'm very active. I had to check my blood sugar 4 times already today because my fasting levels are far too high, yet my post meal blood sugars are good. I eat 'paleo' with a lean toward GAPS and I feed my family with 'Nourishing Traditions' in hopes that they never have to deal with this like I do. 

 

My body is broken in the same way, I'm just not fat. 

[Momof3littles]

Yep, there are people left and right saying "my kid eats X and is thin." In high school I ranged from 92 lbs as a freshman to about 105 at graduation. I'm 120 as a 5'2" adult. Not skinny, but not overweight, and definitely at risk of type 2 due to PCOS and the associated IR. In high school I was a cross country running vegetarian girl and quite thin, but looking back I had PCOS and it was undiagnosed. As a result, I likely had IR issues even back then.

 

Everyone thought I wasn't getting my period because I was a long distance runner. Fast forward to my mid 20s, and I went off BCP to find out I had NO cycle at all. Zero ovulation, zero periods. I was 114 lbs and had trouble getting a PCOS diagnosis since my then OB/GYN thought I couldn't because I wasn't overweight :/ I did have PCOS, and had to do fertility meds, metformin, etc. to conceive my kids. It would have been bad to have that diagnosis missed. PCOS puts women at much higher risk of type 2, metabolic syndrome issues, endometrial cancer, and a whole host of issues that have nothing to do with fertility. So yeah, my IR started early, early, early looking back. And I was quite thin.

[Audrey]

 

Plus pending price and quality

We will buy plums, jicama, butternut squash, spaghetti squash, nectarines, melons, zucchini...

 

The only item that has to be organic is the bananas. The taste of organic is so far superior that now we know why no one ate the others!

 

Before I decided food was a valid "waste" of our limited funds, the * items are the only ones I would have bought and I doubt I would have even bought half of that amount. And God forbid something not be used and go to seed or rot bc I get really upset about it. I wouldn't have risked the chance of it going bad 12 years ago. I wouldn't have bought it at all rather than risk that something would conflict with our schedule and cause that meal for it not to be made before it went bad.

 

 

Totally OT, but please tell me what you do with jicama.  I'll start another thread for it, okay?  I see it in the stores now and I want some, but every recipe I see has things in it I can't get here. 

 

To the bolded... me, too!  I get near panic-attacks at food going to waste!  Part of it is that I spent all those hours growing, weeding and harvesting it.  I'm a much better canner than I used to be though, and we have a much better freezer situation than we used to, as well.  It's now rare that anything gets lost to spoilage, but I still am rather twitchy about it. 

[LucyStoner]

 

 

I have considered doing that.  Do I need anything special to wash them well?  One of those brush things?  How do I know they are good?  

For those of you that do your own fries, how do you do that?  Do you cut them yourself with a knife or do you have a special contraption that will do it for you?  Because if it's a special contraption, that starts to get into the realm of just not having enough space in the kitchen.   :(

I do love potatoes seasoned with butter and garlic and cooked in the oven.  Or sliced thin with parmesan and garlic - they are DELISH.  

Surprisingly, I do actually know how to cook potatoes lol... I just don't like the amount of time it takes.   :)

 

 

A little dirt = extra nutrients.  LOL.  Just kidding.  Only sorta.  I just wash loose dirt off and call it done.  No special brush or vegetable wash stuff. I am happy to report I am still alive.  :)  To the best of my knowledge, I have never suffered from potato borne illness.  :)  My parents always told us we had to eat the skin to get the nutrition.  

 

I don't make fries often but when I do, I just slice them into fry like shapes by hand with a knife.  I don't like special contraptions if I can avoid them.  

[Audrey]

A banana is very high in sugar though.  I can't eat high sugar.  And the emphasis on low fat would leave me starved.

 

Weight Watchers isn't a bad thing.  I'm not trying to rank on it.  But the reason they change stuff is probably in large part marketing.  If their program was that effective they would have gone out of business long ago.

 

 

My theory on Weight Watchers always changing is that they 1) try to keep up with food 'trends,' and 2) try to figure out how much you can "cheat" but still stay in the system, and they revise their system to those two points.  Point 2 especially -- because deprivation, whether real or perceived, is a huge diet killer.  Most people don't last very long sticking to a really restrictive diet.  And, WW wants you to keep paying your monthly fee.

[Audrey]

 If you don't have a lot of money and have to feed a lot of people, and the frozen veggies are sitting there in the freezer case and the pizzas are right next to them and you have $5 to spend and you can get a whole bunch more pizza that you know your family will actually eat, versus the frozen broccoli which could be a good side for the 2 people who would eat it...for that amount of money, why not get the pizza? 

 

 

You know... we can sit here all day and brag about how organically perfect and extra low-cost our food budgets are -- or aren't.  But this, above, is reality for MANY people (including many people on this board) and in NO way should anyone feel ashamed for making a food choice based on the sheer reality of their very limited finances.

 

It is great to talk about why people get fat in relation to what they eat.  That is a complex issue and can be a very interesting discussion, but when the conversation starts steering into blanket prescriptions on how to not be fat... well, there you've got a problem because weight isn't JUST about what you eat because what you get to eat isn't always a fair choice.

[Murphy101]

You know... we can sit here all day and brag about how organically perfect and extra low-cost our food budgets are -- or aren't. But this, above, is reality for MANY people (including many people on this board) and in NO way should anyone feel ashamed for making a food choice based on the sheer reality of their very limited finances.

 

It is great to talk about why people get fat in relation to what they eat. That is a complex issue and can be a very interesting discussion, but when the conversation starts steering into blanket prescriptions on how to not be fat... well, there you've got a problem because weight isn't JUST about what you eat because what you get to eat isn't always a fair choice.

Like like like like like!

[Parrothead]

I think none of it matters. I really believe Peter Attia is on the right trail.

 

I am between 125 and 130 and I am fighting metabolic syndrome and diabetes. I'm very active. I had to check my blood sugar 4 times already today because my fasting levels are far too high, yet my post meal blood sugars are good. I eat 'paleo' with a lean toward GAPS and I feed my family with 'Nourishing Traditions' in hopes that they never have to deal with this like I do.

 

My body is broken in the same way, I'm just not fat.

This is me. I'm not as thin as you, but I'm not obese. If I lose 12 pounds I'll no longer have a high BMI.

 

Something is broken in me. I don't know what. I'm being checked for everything the doctor can think of. I hope he finds what is broken.

[HRAAB]

Totally OT, but please tell me what you do with jicama.  I'll start another thread for it, okay?  I see it in the stores now and I want some, but every recipe I see has things in it I can't get here. 

 

To the bolded... me, too!  I get near panic-attacks at food going to waste!  Part of it is that I spent all those hours growing, weeding and harvesting it.  I'm a much better canner than I used to be though, and we have a much better freezer situation than we used to, as well.  It's now rare that anything gets lost to spoilage, but I still am rather twitchy about it.

Just eat it. Grate it in salads, dice and throw in stir fry, dip in hummus. They're crunchy, sweet, juicy, delicious all by themselves. They remind me of Jerusalem artichokes.

 

I CANNOT waste food. I guess it's my religion.

[LucyStoner]

I just went to the market across the street.  Regular grocery store, nothing fancy (Safeway).  I bought, mostly all on sale or with ecoupons:

 

Whole wheat bread (no hfcs): 1.79

1/2 gallon milk (managers special 50% off): $1.50

3.5 pounds bananas: $2.42

1 small container mushrooms: $1.99

1 pound spinach: $4.99

2 pounds of strawberries: $5

2 pounds of broccoli: $3.60

8 ounces of hummus: $2.50 

2 pounds baby carrots: $2

 

so a total of $25.79.  

 

All of this  (except the higher calorie items like milk, some bread and a few brown bananas I will use for oatmeal bars) will be gone in 2 days (today and tomorrow) and represents only a portion cost wise of what we will eat in that time.  For the same $25 and change I could have bought 20 liters of coke (9800 calories) and 18 huge Little Debbie brownies (9000 calories) for a total of 18,800 calories (I did a little reconnaissance at the store, LOL) or 33 brownies for a total of 16,500 calories.  The food I bought has far less calories total.  Only 5755 and that is with the higher calorie things like bread and bananas.  

 

milk: 880 calories

bread: 1800 calories

strawberries: 350

mushrooms: 21

bananas: 1400 calories

spinach: 104 calories

broccoli: 308 calories

hummus: 600 calories

carrots: 372 calories

 

People on low budgets making crappy food choices are not as a rule idiots.  It easy to see why someone would skip the produce and load up on sugars and fats that sate their kids bellies.  There is a reason I ate a shit ton of pasta as a kid.  There is a reason I still feel gleeful at being able to afford all the fresh fruit and veggies I want.  

[Joanne]

 I don't know, maybe I've been lucky. My leader has always been of the mind that you need to do what works best for you, so if oatmeal keeps you satisfied, go for it. The leader frequently describes how she needs protein at breakfast, and so do I because oatmeal just doesn't do it for me. I've tried slow cooked oats, steel-cut, with peanut butter, etc. and I'm always hungry very soon after. So I build most of my breakfasts around eggs or egg whites. 

 

 

Since I'm talking so much about Weight Watchers, I would like to say WW addresses emotional eating quite frequently, and it's one of the more helpful components for me. Over the years I've learned I'm not so much a general emotional eater, as I am a stress eater. 

 

I've also done calorie counting (including Sparkpeople), Intuitive Eating (gained 30 pounds on that), Beck Diet Solution, Atkins, Slim Fast, Volumetrics, Richard Simmons Food Mover, and I'm sure a million other plans in the past 25 years. I am very knowledgeable about diet and fitness plans, and I learned something from each of these plans even if I abandoned the diet as a whole. I've also learned that different programs work for me at different points in my life. Lately I think the biggest achievement I've had is to just allow myself flexibility and drop the notion of perfection. 

 

Beck Diet Solution is a wonderful resource to just get your brain ready to lose weight. For me, the principles from that book are constantly reinforced by Weight Watchers and it works with any plan. I recommend anyone wanting to lose weight read it! 

 

 

I agree. In my 30's, I lost a LOT of weight on low carb. I felt GREAT.

 

Life happened, and I gained. I tried WW and was a screaming, shaking, irritable biotch. I was "on program", strictly following the guidelines of that time. I GAINED weight. I know the leader did not believe me.

 

A couple of years ago, I tried low carb again. I felt GREAT but did not lose a pound. I think this was due to:

 

1. Age (I was in my 40's)
2. Stress (I was working 2 jobs and a full time student)
3. Lack of sleep
4. Mirena IUD

 

I think that dairy became less tolerated for me. I found some disbelief/animosity on low carb and paleo boards about that.

 

I'm back to "dieting" because I am obese and I've been considering weight loss surgery for a year or so. I'm trying low carb again, and seeing what happens. My above list has been somewhat changed. :)

[OrganicAnn]

I just heard that Mexico has surpassed the US with the % of overweight and obese people.   Is it our lifestyle has spread or it is for other reasons? 

 

I knew one person (european) who lived in the US for just over 1 year and said that they gained a lot of weight.  Why? So many different little things that added up to a lot. 

 

I know if many 3rd world countries they used to eat only 2 meal a day of something like rice and beans or corn meal mush.   I can't imagine Americans ever accepting that type of diet.    Also having to walk more as a way of life.    

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I just heard that Mexico has surpassed the US with the % of overweight and obese people.   Is it our lifestyle has spread or it is for other reasons? 

 

I knew one person (european) who lived in the US for just over 1 year and said that they gained a lot of weight.  Why? So many different little things that added up to a lot. 

 

I know if many 3rd world countries they used to eat only 2 meal a day of something like rice and beans or corn meal mush.   I can't imagine Americans ever accepting that type of diet.    Also having to walk more as a way of life.    

 

Many Americans only get two meals of starchy foods per day and have to walk a lot more than suburbanites. There's more than one kind of American. Some are going hungry and are deprived of essential nutrients but look to be normal weight or overweight because what they do get is rice and beans, or corn meal mush. Lots of people in my township walk everywhere because they can't afford gas or cars.

[Dana]

My theory on Weight Watchers always changing is that they 1) try to keep up with food 'trends,' and 2) try to figure out how much you can "cheat" but still stay in the system, and they revise their system to those two points. Point 2 especially -- because deprivation, whether real or perceived, is a huge diet killer. Most people don't last very long sticking to a really restrictive diet. And, WW wants you to keep paying your monthly fee.

Ohh... I have to post these WW cards from 74.

It's really really good they change!

 

http://www.candyboots.com/wwcards.html

 

A warning...lots of cursing....all in print. So if that offends, don't click.

 

The book, although now out of print, is hysterical.

My MiL's last visit with us before her death, the last night here, she and dh were reading the book together, laughing until in tears. It's a nice last memory for me.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

P.S. As a matter of fact, I'm considering doing a stakeout at the two place I just mentioned for a few hours and actually tallying what I visually identify coming and going from these stores. Maybe have a chart that states "Thin or Fit, So-So and Clearly Obese" Just to see how my anecdotal observation measures against a physical number.

When does this behavior cross the line into "obsessively judgmental?"

[Dandelion]

My take is that a combination of factors have come into play to create the rising obesity rates in the U.S. (and to a lesser extent, elsewhere in the world).

 

I started writing a really lengthy post, and then realized that no one except other nutrition geeks like me would be interested ( ;) ), so here's the summary of my thoughts: 

 

- The Standard American Diet (SAD) now includes a lot of overly processed foods that are high in calories but low on actual nutrition.  So our bodies crave more food because we're not getting the nutrition we need. 

- Many of the additives that are now standard in U.S. foods (most notably HFCS, which is estimated to be an ingredient in ~80% of processed foods in the U.S.), contribute to abnormal and/or much higher increases in body fat than foods that don't contain those additives.  Here's one study that documented this effect from HFCS.

- Some studies have shown that GMO foods contribute both to increased food consumption and weight gain. Experts say that 60-70% of processed foods on grocery store shelves in the U.S. have GMO ingredients. 

- Americans are getting less exercise than ever before.  People used to do more manual labor, both at work and at home.  Technological advances have changed both the work environments and home environments, so we are less physically active than we've been at any time in history.  We are becoming a sedentary society, where only those who actively seek out exercise are actually getting any.

- More Americans are now taking prescription medications than ever before.  7 out of 10 Americans take at least one prescription medication, and many take several.   Many of these medications have weight gain as a side effect.  

- Americans are inundated with conflicting diet advice.  While information is everywhere, IME very few people actually have a real grasp on what constitutes a healthy diet.  Many "experts" are just touting their products, and the majority of traditionally trained medical professionals do not receive any real training on nutrition and are unable to guide their patients in establishing a healthy diet.

 

I do think individuals are responsible for their nutrition choices, but I also think the U.S. government and food industry bear significant responsibilty for allowing the U.S. food supply to become what it is today.  Other countries that have stricter controls on additives, GMOs, pesticides, etc. do not have the same obesity rates as we're seeing in the U.S.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've been thinking a lot about this thread today.  Just like there are many different reasons why people get fat (and often a combination of many different reasons), there are many different ways that people lose weight.  Sometimes I have wished that I drank soda so that I could just stop drinking it and lose weight like so many testimonials I've seen.  Or that I wasn't exercising so that I could start out with 30 minutes of walking and just walk away the pounds.  There are people who have lost weight in those ways and in other ways too.  But for each person who has successfully lost weight with one method, there is another person who tried that same method and failed.  Part of that is because someone with a screwed up thyroid isn't going to lose weight without something to fix the underlying problem and someone who eats emotionally won't be able to sustain a diet when the going gets tough unless they figure out some new ways of coping with their emotions and problems.  People rarely get in the morbidly obese category without having tried to lose weight multiple times.  And people rarely get that heavy without having a lot of underlying angst over it all.  Fortunately, while I have a weight problem, it hasn't gone that high but I have a lot of compassion for those who struggle with that.  Once your body has learned to save fat, there is a cascade of things that happen in your body that all work together to make it harder to lose weight and easier to gain it back.  

 

I think it is good to look at the underlying reasons for obesity if your motivation is to learn how to teach your kids to make good choices and to hopefully set things up so that they don't have to struggle with their weight.  I also think it is good to look at the reasons for your own struggle and that of your loved ones.  We are part of our communities and I think it is good to try and be part of a community that is healthy.  But if you don't understand how complex the problem is, you do more harm than good by promoting simplistic solutions that don't always work.  And if you have no compassion then please do those with weight problems a favor and keep your opinions to yourself.  

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I live in Europe, and can agree with what another mentioned- we take all public transport.  A trip to the grocery store is about 1.5 miles round trip, and we are carrying the groceries home.  As soon as my kids can walk, they start getting weaned from the stroller- lol.  To get to the swimming pool tomorrow, we have a quarter mile walk to the metro stop, two metros, then a half mile walk to the pool.  Swim, swim, swim, then back home again. 

 

While I wouldn't mind getting back into weight lifting, I have managed to maintain my weight simply through all the walking and lack of convenience food here.

[MIch elle]

  Sometimes I have wished that I drank soda so that I could just stop drinking it and lose weight like so many testimonials I've seen. 

Me too! 

 

I don't drink soda (yuck) and rarely eat sugar which is what lots of people eliminate and lose weight. Not me because they have never been a part of my daily diet. I have one teaspoon of Splenda/Stevia a day in my coffee.

 

I'm one of those people that is obese but no one would call me obese. I carry my weight all over.  To be in the healthy range BMI, I need to lose 40 lbs (minimum).  I'm currently in size 12 clothes (which is the same size I wore when I was 40-45 lbs lighter 20 yrs ago!).

 

It ain't easy!

[AdventureMoms]

 

I think education is always a good thing, but I'm certain kids hear at school and other programs for the poor what is healthy and what is not but they ignore it. I know I have attended dozens of classes offered by WIC telling parents and kids what is healthy to eat. :)

 

I remember being told in school that pizza was extremely healthy because it covers 3 (4 if a meat pizza) food groups. I also remember being told that potatoes and corn were vegetables. Even if served as french fries or corn bread. I don't assume the schools or WIC or any other government body has any clue about nutrition. Given all the conflicting info out there, I can understand why someone might be confused and frustrated on the subject of nutrition.

[OH_Homeschooler]

Yeah, again, I don't agree with the emphasis on low fat and it's very obvious that is the emphasis.  And, there is nothing wrong with butter.  Butter has the same calories as olive oil.  I don't buy into the "saturated fat is bad" thing either. 

 

I guess I just don't agree with the philosophy of what is healthy with them.  The rest of it sounds good. 

 

I don't have psychological eating issues thankfully.  If anything I tend to not eat if I'm upset.  My issues are feeling starved if I eat the wrong foods.  Unfortunately, the "wrong foods" are the foods that are so readily available. 

 

When I follow low carb faithfully, I can eat whatever cut of steak I want without thought to portion size.  I'm never starved.  I don't have to count anything.

 

The hardest part is the high carb world we live in.  And the fact most low carb foods have to be prepared (cooked, etc.).  Like today, I took my son to the movies.  Everyone munches on popcorn.  I'm not supposed to.  There is nothing they sell there I can have.  Not that I'll die, but these sorts of things people get used to doing and they enjoy it and it stinks when you can't.  Same with going out to eat.  There are so many places I can't go out to eat at.  Or they have one item I can possibly have.  Gets boring.  Parties?  Carb fests....Holidays?  Again, carb fests.

Again, I think it's great you're figuring out what works for you and I am honestly not trying to recruit you or change your mind about Weight Watchers. It just annoys me when I hear people make all sorts of claims that are simply not true when their only experience with the program was not truly an authentic one.

 

I brought up the fact that Weight Watchers addresses emotional eating because someone, possibly you, said that there are no commercial diet programs that address that. Although it must suck to face a high carb world when carbs are the enemy, many people such as me find the problem is emotional eating.

 

So anyway, I think we are on the same side with regard to the original issue, I just wanted to clarify why I'm defending Weight Watchers so much. I'm really an intelligent person and I call BS when I see BS, so to imply WW only changes its program as a marketing strategy and anyone who believes differently is a fool, well, that sort of feels like an insult to me. Especially when those comments are based on sort of looking into the program and quickly dismissing it.

[Murphy101]

My Dh remembers getting the first diet Pepsi when they came out. Up until then he only drank water bc anything else required adjusting his insulin. It just wasn't worth an I jettison to have a drink. He has been terribly addicted to Pepsi and mountain dew ever since. Doesn't even bother with a glass or making it cold. Drinks it hot straight from the 2 liter. :o

 

If it wasn't for homemade beer, Pepsi and mountain dew would be his only drinks. No water. No juice. No milk. No coffee. No tea. Nada. Pepsi and Mountain dew are his only drinks.

 

My kids don't get pop. Ever. Not because I think an occassional one is going to kill them, but bc I don't want to risk the addiction. Same reason I don't let them try cigarettes.

 

Personally, I think I'd let them have a beer or glass of wine before I'd let them have pop. (I haven't, but just saying.) At least those have at least some minute health benefit.

 

But pop is the norm for most people and I would never comment on it. In private my Dh and I have discussed reducing his intake bc there is valid concern that it could take a toll on his kidneys. Because again, we're not talking occassional here, but a daily lifetime addiction. And he does try. But it's hard.

 

But I get negative comments all the time about my kids not drinking pop or koolaid or sweet tea. In so many words, I'm accused of being overly protective and food paranoid about sugar. Some have even hinted I worry they will bc diabetic like my Dh.

 

Um. No. Not at all for any of that actually.

[SKL]

I think people's feelings on this are going to depend largely on whether they consider obesity a "public health issue" that needs to be addressed by someone other than the adult making the individual lifestyle choices.

 

Personally I think that it is a public issue ONLY to the extent that the government creates barriers to good choices / encourages bad choices.  Examples include badly designed school lunches and neighborhood designs that make exercise more difficult than it should be.

 

Otherwise, I think people have the right and responsibility to choose their own lifestyles and deal with the consequences, good and bad.

 

Some people take this as putting down poor or fat people.  No.  I was raised in a poor family and have lots of fat loved ones.  I have great friends who are smart, educated, fun, successful, and very fat!  I wouldn't dream of trying to tell them they should eat what I eat or do yoga or whatever.  Unless they ask me for advice, of course. 

 

So why would I think that the fat lady down the street in the poor neighborhood needs or wants me to interfere or take responsibility for her size?  I personally think it is much less respectful to suggest that poor people need the government or do-gooders to manage their weight.  As usual, we'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes respect for poor people.

[fairfarmhand]

I never knew how to fix fresh veggies until I was an adult. My mother used canned and my exposure to fresh was my another family member's beans. They let them grow in the garden till they are tough and fibrous, then they are picked and brought into the house. The beans are then cooked them for ages, until they are limp and floppy and this person added a generous tablespoonful of bacon grease from the jar of it in the fridge for "flavor."

 

Blech.

 

I ordered some green beans at an upscale restaurant one time, and was pleasantly surprised at how tasty they were. Young pods, steamed until tender crisp and flavored with butter and salt. YUMMY!

 

That family member also will argue with you that a potato is one of the most nutritious veggies there is. They also told my kids that ice cream is just wonderful for you because it's mostly milk.

 

My dh told the kids to never take nutritional advice from someone who needs to lose a ton of weight.

 

 

[Parrothead]

Me too!

 

I don't drink soda (yuck) and rarely eat sugar which is what lots of people eliminate and lose weight. Not me because they have never been a part of my daily diet. I have one teaspoon of Splenda/Stevia a day in my coffee.

 

I'm one of those people that is obese but no one would call me obese. I carry my weight all over. To be in the healthy range BMI, I need to lose 40 lbs (minimum). I'm currently in size 12 clothes (which is the same size I wore when I was 40-45 lbs lighter 20 yrs ago!).

 

It ain't easy!

Clothes- I'm the same way. I've worn a size 12 for most of my adult life. There was a time or two that I weighed more or less. I've read/heard that the clothing industry is resizing clothing so we don't feel too badly about our overall weight gain. If one was a size 8 ten years ago, gained 30 pounds one still wears a size 8 because the clothing has been resized. Where realistically if one gained 30 pounds one should actually be a size 12.

[Parrothead]

My Dh remembers getting the first diet Pepsi when they came out. Up until then he only drank water bc anything else required adjusting his insulin. It just wasn't worth an I jettison to have a drink. He has been terribly addicted to Pepsi and mountain dew ever since. Doesn't even bother with a glass or making it cold. Drinks it hot straight from the 2 liter. :o

 

If it wasn't for homemade beer, Pepsi and mountain dew would be his only drinks. No water. No juice. No milk. No coffee. No tea. Nada. Pepsi and Mountain dew are his only drinks.

 

My kids don't get pop. Ever. Not because I think an occassional one is going to kill them, but bc I don't want to risk the addiction. Same reason I don't let them try cigarettes.

 

Personally, I think I'd let them have a beer or glass of wine before I'd let them have pop. (I haven't, but just saying.) At least those have at least some minute health benefit.

 

But pop is the norm for most people and I would never comment on it. In private my Dh and I have discussed reducing his intake bc there is valid concern that it could take a toll on his kidneys. Because again, we're not talking occassional here, but a daily lifetime addiction. And he does try. But it's hard.

 

But I get negative comments all the time about my kids not drinking pop or koolaid or sweet tea. In so many words, I'm accused of being overly protective and food paranoid about sugar. Some have even hinted I worry they will bc diabetic like my Dh.

 

Um. No. Not at all for any of that actually.

I gotta tell you it is terribly hard. I quit cigarettes and Mt. Dew. I never ever ever have a craving for a cigarette. Never. But the Mt. Dew calls to me from the store at least once a week. I've not given in and it has been 2.5 years. It is hard.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have one close friend I love dearly...but an example of how we eat differently was last night at Braums....at 10 pm. .I had a junior scoop on a junior cone. She had a burger fries and milkshake. She is at least 100 pounds over weight. Maybe more.

As a contrast? I have a good friend that I met in Germany (she is not German, just to clarify). We spent entire days and evenings together in Germany, especially when our hubbies worked long hours. She visits me, and I visit her. She *easily* eats twice as much as me. We were once at a local burger place in Hawaii (their burgers are huge). She ate her whole burger and half of mine. I exercise every day. She rarely exercises. She worked oit with me when she was visiting once. she almost passed out *and* vomited afterward. She has a lower BMI than I do. I am not anything like 100 lbs overweight, but I would need to lose 10 lbs to get my BMI out of the overweight category. She is tiny.

 

So, do not think your experience is necessarily the most common.

 

As an aside, I do agree with the poster who said when you have always worked out that you carry it better.

[Aelwydd]

 

I think people's feelings on this are going to depend largely on whether they consider obesity a "public health issue" that needs to be addressed by someone other than the adult making the individual lifestyle choices.

 

Personally I think that it is a public issue ONLY to the extent that the government creates barriers to good choices / encourages bad choices.  Examples include badly designed school lunches and neighborhood designs that make exercise more difficult than it should be.

 

Otherwise, I think people have the right and responsibility to choose their own lifestyles and deal with the consequences, good and bad.

 

 

Ways in which obesity impacts the public, and is therefore, a national health crisis:

 

- Health issues secondary to obesity include diabetes, heart disease, metabolic disorders put a tremendous strain on hospitals, clinics, and medical practices and drives the costs of health care up for everyone

 

- Medications prescribed for these conditions often have side effects, which require medical supervision and treatment, and again, this adds to the total cost of health care for all us, which is assumed by health insurances, medical groups, individuals paying out of pocket, state and federal governments via tax dollars

 

- Women suffering from obesity are more likely to suffer from infertility, requiring expensive procedures and fertility treatments that, once again, get passed on to the rest of us

 

- Women suffering from obesity who become pregnant are, along with their babies, at increase risk of morbidity and mortality due to conditions such as gestational diabetes and macrosomia

 

- Men and women who suffer from obesity are at greater risk of suffering premature death due to cardiac arrest, stroke, cancer, infections (due to diabetes). For every death due to obesity, there is a family whose income is reduced, or whose structure has been destabilized. This all equates to monies either flowing out public tax dollars in the form of Social Security death benefits, or life insurance policies cashed in, which raise the premium rates for all of us.

 

- It impacts even the private sector: for example, how airlines calculate average passenger weight for load balancing, and for designing cabin space that all of us share.

 

- It poses a national security threat in that more and more young Americans are unable to meet the minimum physical standards set forth to join various branches of the military.

 

- Obesity is correlated with increase rates of alzheimer's and dementia--already a swelling tsunami of a public health crisis in and of themselves. With a growing population of aging citizens, the costs associated with treating and caring for so many affected persons seriously threatens the entire health care system.

 

 

I can point out several more, but the point I wanted to make is that while diet and exercise are personal choices, the rates of obesity in our country is probably the single biggest driver of health care costs in the nation. Were rates to be significantly reduced, health costs would likewise drop. So, in way, my desire to eat six cupcakes a day may be my personal choice--but when I fall ill to some chronic disease related to my weight and dietary choices, it's my employer, my health insurance company, my state and federal government that are all paying for it along with me. Ultimately, we are all paying for the poor overall health of our country, in terms of increased premiums, deductibles, co-pays, reduced benefits, increased restrictions, decreased access to specialists and hospitals due to demand, etc.

 

IMO, the answer is not to regulate people's choices. That would be pointless and stupid because a lot of people don't have a great deal of choice, due to food costs and the availability and quality of fresh foods, not just in their local grocery stores, but on the road, at work, in school, etc. The answer is a multi-tiered approach, including education based upon nutritional science (not upon agro-lobbying), broad support among local and state governments for the use of public space and open land for community gardens, initiatives for providing fresh, unprocessed foods in public schools, a de-emphasis on automobile-centric transportation in towns and cities with more infrastructure dedicated to walking/ biking/ and public transit--and finally, MORE PAID TIME OFF.

 

That last one may seem unrelated, but stress is actually one of the biggest contributors to increased weight and obesity. Americans have a pitiful--PITIFUL-amount of paid time off, if any at all. Contrary to what some people maintain, working without a break or without time to destress will kill you, and kill you a lot sooner than if you took time off to allow your body to destress. Stress is a killer--do not underestimate its role in contributing to obesity, hypertension, and cancer.

 

But all of this requires taking a longer view than just the next quarter's profit, or next year's revenue. We can continue to take the, "Me and mine, first, don't bother me with other people's problems" approach, and wait until the system completely breaks under the crushing weight of this health crisis. Or, we can take a holistic view and realize that what affects everyone else affects our own well being and continued ability to pay for and access health care.

 

I've kind of given up on Americans taking the latter view though. I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that the "bubble" that is health care will have to burst, throwing millions completely outside of the reach of medical care, before things "level out" and a new norm is established where far fewer are able to access any care at all, and only the upper middle class and those wealthier will actually be able to get quality care.

[SKL]

Aelwyyd - I don't want to quote your whole comment so I'll just answer freeform.

 

First, I agree that obesity is linked to many health problems, but how many of those heart attacks etc. knock out people who are employed?  I mean, usually these things strike after retirement age, or after a person has effectively left the work force for reasons unrelated to health/weight.  Also, in the USA, the way health costs are spread is a bit different.  And as one person pointed out to me, people who are sick die earlier and therefore cost less in social security benefits.  Somewhere I seem to recall reading that we actually save money on people who die younger.  I've also read somewhere that statistically, fat people are at lower risk of death than skinny people of the same age.  I know lots of fat people who have no health issues, or their issues are not fat related.

 

Second, I agree that city planning etc. should take public health into account.  Exercise and fresh air, safety, community gardens, etc.

 

Third, I do not agree with you on the paid time off issue.  I do not believe that stress correlates with number of hours worked.  Some people get stressed out by their jobs, but others do not.  Some of the most stressed-out workers are 9-5-ers who get plenty of vacation but don't feel much ownership in their work.  To feel ownership in your work, you need to care about what happens outside of the hours that you're "required" to be there.  That's not a bad thing.  Personally I work 7 days per week, 365 days per year, and I don't have as much work stress as many people do.  Work stress is a complex animal and is definitely not linear.  X hours of PTO isn't going to fix that particular problem.  One could also argue that lots of very heavy Americans have 365 days of PTO per year and it hasn't helped them lose weight.  There are also lots of hefty housewives out there.

[Scarlett]

As a contrast? I have a good friend that I met in Germany (she is not German, just to clarify). We spent entire days and evenings together in Germany, especially when our hubbies worked long hours. She visits me, and I visit her. She *easily* eats twice as much as me. We were once at a local burger place in Hawaii (their burgers are huge). She ate her whole burger and half of mine. I exercise every day. She rarely exercises. She worked oit with me when she was visiting once. she almost passed out *and* vomited afterward. She has a lower BMI than I do. I am not anything like 100 lbs overweight, but I would need to lose 10 lbs to get my BMI out of the overweight category. She is tiny.

 

So, do not think your experience is necessarily the most common.

 

As an aside, I do agree with the poster who said when you have always worked out that you carry it better.

But both you and your friend are not overweight......I KNOW how my friend eats and I KNOW she is very overweight. And when I get past a certain weight I just feel horrible and I KNOW to cut back.

 

Sometimes it is complicated.....(like jean mentioned) and sometimes it isn't.

[SKL]

But both you and your friend are not overweight......I KNOW how my friend eats and I KNOW she is very overweight. And when I get past a certain weight I just feel horrible and I KNOW to cut back.

 

Sometimes it is complicated.....(like jean mentioned) and sometimes it isn't.

 

My beloved sister is like this.  She knows she's obese and she knows how that happens.  And she eats what she wants to eat.  Yes, she has tried to cut back in order to maintain control (i.e. avoid diabetes etc.), but when she really wants to eat something, she eats it with full knowledge of the consequence.  It's her choice, plain and simple.  And she's never tried to blame someone else.

[SKL]

Another thing I've noticed is how many doctors and nurses are obese.  Why is that?  Certainly not a lack of knowledge of how that happens.

[Scarlett]

Yes.....my cousin is a PA and just lost 50 pounds....no longer has to take insuln for his diabetes. But sure he has known for years he needed to lose that weight. He is close to 50 and has been overweight since he quit smoking 20 years ago...and he has been a nurse since he was about 30.....so no ignorance there.

[wapiti]

Another thing I've noticed is how many doctors and nurses are obese.  Why is that?  Certainly not a lack of knowledge of how that happens.

 

Actually, that may be the case.  You might be interested in watching the Dr Peter Attia video linked upthread.

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/479625-why-are-we-fat-i-mainly-mean-americans-but-anyone-can-postulate/?p=5067884

 

[Guest]

Hey, I don't know if anyone will find this anecdotal rambling interesting or not, but I was thinking about this today at lunch, so I'm just going to go ahead and state my observations FWIW.

 

I was having lunch at Panera in a moderate-income demographic area. While I ate my (much too large) salad, I observed the people around me at that time. Immediately to my left, there were three folks that appeared to be woman, husband and teenage daughter. They were slim. In front of me, there were three women sitting together with their collective kids. The kids appeared normal weight. One lady was seriously obese. Another was "regular" obese. The third seemed fit and was thin. Behind me was an older couple, both overweight, but not horribly so. To my right was an obese woman and her medium-sized child. In the adjacent section, I could see the back end of a large obese woman. Sitting just outside on the patio area was a fit-looking younger couple and 3 slim teenaged girls. Walking around was an employee who was young and slim. So, in this one little slice of life, the ratio of fat to thin people was about 1:1.

 

P.S. I got a hold of "Good Calories, Bad Calories" at the library and WOW! What an eye-opener! This is exactly the kind of journalistic, investigative material I've been wanting to read.

[redsquirrel]

Doctors and nurses often work night shifts and odd hours and are sleep deprived. There is a pretty good connection between sleep deprivation, swing shift work and being overweight. My mom is a nurse and is not overweight, and it drives her batty to see so many overweight nurses on the floor. But, she also knows why it happens. The medical field is also pretty stressful and that can influence weight.

 

Every single person can attest to how difficult it can be to make good food choices when you are working over 40 hours a week, have responsibilities at home etc. Medical workers are not immune to the same stresses as everyone else.

 

And I have to laugh at the idea of blaming 'women at work' for the weight problem. Women have always worked for money, and had to leave their kids to do so. My grandmother supported her family and my grandfather made dinner many nights. I guess you mean middle class women having to work to help support the family instead of only poor women? One could just as easily blame men for not stepping in to take up the slack in the kitchen when their wives weren't there to cook full meals.

 

My mom was home for much of my childhood and we ate crap food. She hates to cook and is just not good at it. And it was in the 1980s, so there was PLENTY of corn syrup in what we ate. No butter, only margarine because that was healthier, right? We had snack time in school, and afterschool snacks, and snacks served at sports games. Heck, my girlfriend used to go home after school and drink coke and eat frozen coolwhip for a snack. her mom thought that was fine. Her whole family was skinny and existed on junk food and soda. I grew up being fed frozen entrees like frozen pot pies and frozen chicken burgers. But, my mom didn't allow soda or 'sugar cereal' so we had the reputation of being 'health freaks' :lol:

 

I know there are regional as well as class differences. I have always lived on the east coast and always in small, highly educated college towns. There is a general range of bodies that looks 'typical' to me.  When I leave my sphere I am surprised at how many more heavy people I see. Even the portions in the restaurants look bigger than what I am used to. The only difference is when I travel to a major city, like NYC or Montreal, and then I see many more very thin people.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but I know that there isn't one single reason or solution. I think it is going to take individual as well as public health initiative.

 

 

[wapiti]

P.S. I got a hold of "Good Calories, Bad Calories" at the library and WOW! What an eye-opener! This is exactly the kind of journalistic, investigative material I've been wanting to read.

 

Yes, along with that, you might like Volek and Phinney's first book, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living.  Then both Taubes and Volek/Phinney have second books.  The other Volek/Phinney book, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance, focuses on this topic in the context of exercise.

[Guest]

When does this behavior cross the line into "obsessively judgmental?"

Obviously, if I tapped one on the shoulder and say, "Hey, lady! You made it into my Severely Obese column! How 'bout running a lap or two around the parking lot." ;)

 

I don't think this is judgemental at all. It's gathering stats. No different from sitting there check-marking how many red-heads, blondes and brunettes are coming and going, except for doing that would not be useful for the subject I'm studying.

[Joanne]

Aelwyyd - I don't want to quote your whole comment so I'll just answer freeform.

 

First, I agree that obesity is linked to many health problems, but how many of those heart attacks etc. knock out people who are employed?  I mean, usually these things strike after retirement age, or after a person has effectively left the work force for reasons unrelated to health/weight.  Also, in the USA, the way health costs are spread is a bit different.  And as one person pointed out to me, people who are sick die earlier and therefore cost less in social security benefits.  Somewhere I seem to recall reading that we actually save money on people who die younger.  I've also read somewhere that statistically, fat people are at lower risk of death than skinny people of the same age.  I know lots of fat people who have no health issues, or their issues are not fat related.

 

Second, I agree that city planning etc. should take public health into account.  Exercise and fresh air, safety, community gardens, etc.

 

Third, I do not agree with you on the paid time off issue.  I do not believe that stress correlates with number of hours worked.  Some people get stressed out by their jobs, but others do not.  Some of the most stressed-out workers are 9-5-ers who get plenty of vacation but don't feel much ownership in their work.  To feel ownership in your work, you need to care about what happens outside of the hours that you're "required" to be there.  That's not a bad thing.  Personally I work 7 days per week, 365 days per year, and I don't have as much work stress as many people do.  Work stress is a complex animal and is definitely not linear.  X hours of PTO isn't going to fix that particular problem.  One could also argue that lots of very heavy Americans have 365 days of PTO per year and it hasn't helped them lose weight.  There are also lots of hefty housewives out there.

 

 

Your conclusions are based on "facts" that aren't. The real stats on heart disease show very differently.

[Joanne]

 

Every single person can attest to how difficult it can be to make good food choices when you are working over 40 hours a week, have responsibilities at home etc. Medical workers are not immune to the same stresses as everyone else.

 

 

 

True.

 

At times, I have posted on this board for "healthy food" suggestions when most of your meals are out. By far, the conclusion is that healthy is "easy", even "out."

 

The reality, though, is that these answers came from moms who had time to cook from scratch, plan, shop. And/or a partner to assist with life in order to make the plans, etc.

 

Planning for healthy eating when the majority of meals are "out" is a huge (no pun intended) challenge.

[Guest]

True.

 

At times, I have posted on this board for "healthy food" suggestions when most of your meals are out. By far, the conclusion is that healthy is "easy", even "out."

 

The reality, though, is that these answers came from moms who had time to cook from scratch, plan, shop. And/or a partner to assist with life in order to make the plans, etc.

 

Planning for healthy eating when the majority of meals are "out" is a huge (no pun intended) challenge.

I appreciate that this makes it harder, or even WAY harder. Our society is not set up in a way that would make this easy. But I still think it is not impossible. You have to make unconventional choices or ask for substitutions sometimes. I was at Panera today for lunch. I bought a strawberry poppyseed salad with chicken. I asked for chips instead of a baguette because I am avoiding wheat products. I get dressing on the side, so I can control my amount. I usually take my water bottle with me everywhere I go; this was the one "compromise" I made today - I had a frozen lemonade (many carbohydrates/sugar). I forgot my water bottle, so that was not optimal. For the sake of honesty, I will confess I ate more salad than necessary for satiety and was sorry I hadn't halved it to begin with, but this is an option I could have utilized to make the portion smaller. I took the chips home and gave them to my kids.

 

Supermarket counters often have choices that can work, too. I will grant you this is not as easy as buzzing through a drive-thru somewhere more convenient.

[redsquirrel]

True.

 

At times, I have posted on this board for "healthy food" suggestions when most of your meals are out. By far, the conclusion is that healthy is "easy", even "out."

 

The reality, though, is that these answers came from moms who had time to cook from scratch, plan, shop. And/or a partner to assist with life in order to make the plans, etc.

 

Planning for healthy eating when the majority of meals are "out" is a huge (no pun intended) challenge.

 

I eat out infrequently and I weight myself every single day and keep a record of it. Twice a month, I go out to dinner with some friends. I don't have the $ to spend on an entree, plus I track my calories etc so I always order the same thing. I order a salad and a brothy vegetable soup. If the salad has cheese or bacon etc then I order it without. If there are nuts or olives I take them off. I love those things but I don't eat them. I skip the bread and I only drink water. I don't have dessert. And yet, with all those precautions I will always gain a couple pounds after every restaurant meal. I know it is salt from the soup or other small appetizer I order as my meal and it is gone in a day, but it is reliable. With all those rules I follow I can still see the effects of even a single restaurant meal, I can't imagine if I had to do it often.

 

Plus, it takes a whole lot of will power and self control and I only do it twice a month. People only have so much of that to spread around. Sooner or later you will cave. And I should mention that these are all nicer restaurants with lots of healthy choices and I know ahead of time I am going and can often look at the menu and make a choice before I get there. If I was eating out regularly and having to make choices on the fly with a limited menu I think I would weigh much more than I do.