Adult books for 4th and 6th graders?

[mazakaal]

So I've been reading How to Be a High School Superstar by Cal Newport in the hopes that it will inspire my 15yo to develop some 'interestingness.' Last night I was reading the section where he says that the common factor in all students that he knows who scored exceptionally well in the verbal SATs is that they read adult level books starting in the 3rd or 4th grade. My youngest 2dc overhear this and decide that they want to start reading adult books, but I'm at a loss for what direction to point them in because I don't want adult content, just adult reading level. All I can think of is Dickens and Austen. Any other suggestions?

[kwg]

I should get that book! Interested to hear. He put that out there in the book and didn't provide a list? :banghead:

[mazakaal]

I should get that book! Interested to hear. He put that out there in the book and didn't provide a list? :banghead:

 

 

Yeah, I know. What was that guy thinking? :glare:

[GoVanGogh]

I would get MCT vocab and start working on that. Then slowly add in classics building up in difficulty. I think his vocab program is excellent for making the classics easier to read. He also has a book I like called "Classics in the Classroom". It's a thin little book, but it explains his methods and has book lists.

 

:iagree:

 

 

Also, I would do an internet search for classical/private schools and look at their high school level summer reading list, such as this one:

http://www.coramdeoa...mmerReading.pdf

 

I would also look at the high school reading lists for Ambleside Online, Veritas Press, etc.

 

My upper elementary age student loves Shakespeare. He reads the original, where the adult content is harder to catch the meaning of. (Modern versions are often crass in their termonolgy.)

 

Mark Twain and Jules Verne are two more authors I would consider.

[kwg]

We tried Sentence Island a few years ago and hated it- I know, sacrilegious around here. :lol: So not sure if we would like the voc portion? I looked at Ceaser's English (I guess that is where we would start) and it didn't look bad. I really thought ds would love MCT since he loves a story and is quirky, etc...but nope.

[Laura Corin]

Mark Twain (Connecticut Yankee, Tom Sawyer); George Eliot (Silas Marner); Jules Verne (look for a good modern translation).

 

I agree with making sure that they have read a lot of classic children's novels, so they are used to older prose. Hobbes worked his way through the Puffin Classics and Oxford Children's World Classics.

 

L

[AndyJoy]

The Sherlock Holmes books were some of my first forays into adult literature. They're especially nice because of their episodic nature.

[warneral]

IMO adult books is too generalizing. Why bypass an entire genre of great literature? If you are looking for an advanced booklist, check,out the Well Trained Mind reading recommendations. Also, don't forget that a love of reading needs to be fostered and throwing books over a child's head is not going to do that.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I agree, I'd have them start with great, older children's books, that help them get used to the vocabulary and more complex sentence structure they'll find in many "adult" books. And CE is a great help, too. I agree with many of these suggestions, Sherlock Holmes & Mark Twain and Jules Verne. But also George McDonald, E Nesbit, Rudyard Kipling, Pinochio, Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, Little Women.

 

Ironically, more recent "classics" are actually simpler/easier to read, but often the subject matter is much more difficult for elementary age kids. The older books may have easier subject matter, but be harder to read, so take that into account as well.

[mazakaal]

Why bypass an entire genre of great literature? If you are looking for an advanced booklist, check,out the Well Trained Mind reading recommendations. Also, don't forget that a love of reading needs to be fostered and throwing books over a child's head is not going to do that.

 

I totally agree. I've never pushed them into advanced books. I'm only asking because they overheard what I was reading to the teen and asked for adult level books.

 

I would get MCT vocab and start working on that. Then slowly add in classics building up in difficulty. I think his vocab program is excellent for making the classics easier to read. He also has a book I like called "Classics in the Classroom". It's a thin little book, but it explains his methods and has book lists.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I've looked at MCT in the past and find it intriguing, but it's out of my price range unfortunately.

 

 

Also, I would do an internet search for classical/private schools and look at their high school level summer reading list, such as this one:

http://www.coramdeoa...mmerReading.pdf

 

I would also look at the high school reading lists for Ambleside Online, Veritas Press, etc.

 

My upper elementary age student loves Shakespeare. He reads the original, where the adult content is harder to catch the meaning of. (Modern versions are often crass in their termonolgy.)

 

Mark Twain and Jules Verne are two more authors I would consider.

 

These are some great ideas. Thanks.

 

The Sherlock Holmes books were some of my first forays into adult literature. They're especially nice because of their episodic nature.

 

Ds specifically asked about Sherlock Holmes, but I couldn't remember if they had any inappropriate content. He'll be thrilled to get permission to read these books.

 

And thanks for all the other suggestions as well. We do have loads of fantastic classic literature that the kids can read whenever they like. I'll try to pull some of these off the shelves to highlight them.

 

Thanks!

[Lanny]

If your DC have a hobby, or, a subject they are deeply interested in, they can read books that are normally directed to adults, at an early age. I was interested in Amateur Radio (received my Novice license 2 months after my 12th birthday), so I had been reading about that for awhile... Learning Morse Code and studying basic electronics. I remember going to a brick and mortar library when I was a child, and selecting books that were marked for 2 or 3 grade levels above mine. Your DC can read books directed to Adults, but without "adult content"...

[UrbanSue]

I agree that just reading older books is probably going to get you pretty far. We just finished Heidi as a read aloud and started Anne of Green Gables (the orignial, unabridged) and the vocabulary in either of those challenges me once in awhile--more so than Austen, I think. And the more complex sentence structure is important as well. But those plots are both really fun for kids. So I would just pull out any decent book list that values older literature and start at the bottom. Things often mentioned as read alouds for first graders might work well, too. Winnie the Pooh is great reading.

[Lori D.]

Do a lot of read-alouds and books on tape of works that are a step above the independent reading level of your DC. Read alouds are a fabulous way of absorbing vocabulary and rich language.

 

This past thread had a lot of suggestions that would be exactly what you're looking for: Which 20 books help prepare for reading the Great Books?.

 

Also, lots of older books with rich vocabulary in the 1000 Good Books list -- consider reading aloud more advanced works from the grade 7-9 list, as well as having DC read grade-level works on their own.

 

 

And, these two threads, while more about high school, have some tips you might find helpful in how to read those more advanced works: Preparing our DC to read The Great Books?, and, Where do you start with a high school boy who has never read classic lit?

 

 

Totally agreeing with the previous poster who said you want to be careful to not lose the love of reading by throwing books at your DC that are too advanced -- and, don't miss out on all the fabulous classic children/young adult literature that is out there that your DC are the perfect age for, and that does include great vocabulary, rich language, powerful themes, images and ideas that develop the mind for being able to grasp -- and love -- the complex classics.

 

Enjoy your reading journey together as a family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[tammyw]

Love the ideas of the older classics. We are going to focus more on that this year as well.

[Crimson Wife]

As my college stats professor constantly used to harangue us, correlation does not imply causation. Kids who are able to read adult books in 3rd or 4th grade are likely to have an unusually high verbal IQ. Taking an average IQ kid and forcing him/her to read challenging books will help raise his/her verbal SAT scores a bit, but it's not going to take him/her from 500 to >700.

 

My neck of the woods is full of "Tiger" parents who put a lot of time & effort into "hothousing" their children in the hopes of getting that Ivy League acceptance some day. Yet the kids of my acquaintance who actually are potential Ivy League material are typically the ones charging ahead on their own and dragging their parents along for the ride.

[Farrar]

I totally agree that correlation is not causation. And with that in mind, I think people should keep in mind that really loving books, devouring books, and even reading easy books to build up reading fluency can all still be really important for fourth graders.

 

Of course, if kids want to read more challenging books, that's great... I just don't think it's the path to good test scores down the line for all kids.

[mazakaal]

Okay. Seriously. I'm not pushing my kids or hot-housing them. They asked for more advanced books, I couldn't think of any, I asked for suggestions. That's all. And I'm not even reading the Hihh School Superstars book to get my kid into Harvard, just to encourage him to develop some interests.

[Tita Gidge]

My kids love Asimov, and all started on him towards the end of elementary school.

 

Not exactly the classic literature recommended above, but there it is! LOL

[Farrar]

Okay. Seriously. I'm not pushing my kids or hot-housing them. They asked for more advanced books, I couldn't think of any, I asked for suggestions. That's all. And I'm not even reading the Hihh School Superstars book to get my kid into Harvard, just to encourage him to develop some interests.

 

Sorry! What I said wasn't really directed at you. Like I said, if kids want more challenging books, that's great (more than great - my rising fourth graders are in no way ready for anything but a Newbery winner at most, so color me envious!). I think this is just one of those ideas that can be dangerous in the wrong hands. And I think parents already have a bit of a propensity these days to push longer books on kids who developmentally aren't really ready.

[mazakaal]

My kids love Asimov, and all started on him towards the end of elementary school.

 

Not exactly the classic literature recommended above, but there it is! LOL

 

This a great idea. I had forgotten all about him. I remember reading Asimov when I was in middle school. Thanks.

[kiwik]

Adults books is a bit general. The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were not written with children in mind but I read them at about 10, watership down was written for adults, Sherlock Holmes is accessible, C S Lewis says in the preface that he wrote it for his god daughter but she is too old for fairy tales now but he hopes she will grow back into them later, a lot of science fiction is fine for younger kids but not so much the social futurist fiction. But I doubt reading adult fiction causes the high scores - surely it is more likely that the kids who get high scores want and are able to read adult fiction earlier. I loved Shakespeare at about 12 but unfortunately we didn't get to study it until much later by which time I had given up on school.

[mumto2]

Agatha Christie is another idea.

[Pod's mum]

Maybe try some Jeeves and Wooster, by P.G. Wodehouse,

or some Father Brown Stories by G K Chesterton.

But I'd not go past some Kipling, Jungle Book, Kim and Captain's Couragous first.

Have fun finding things your tribe love.

[mazakaal]

Thanks, mumto2 and Pod's mum. I'll add these to the list. I used to love Agatha Christie as a teen as well.

[Hunter]

I was broke, busy, sick and VERY rigid for most of the time I was raising my boys. I spent VERY little time on fiction. The KJV was the primary literature book I used with my boys. The youngest was my scholar, and he started on a few of the Great Books early on, such as Pilgrim's Progress, Aesop and Plutarch. At about 15, he started devouring the epics and Shakespeare like they were pop culture paperback novels.

 

For centuries there have been many that have advocated a diet of almost exclusively the KJV as the best prep for the other Great Books.

 

I'm a lot less rigid now. I understand the need to nourish the body and soul as much as the mind. I read books to students now, just because...well...they are FUN. :scared: I'm mellowing in my old age. :D

 

I've picked back up my SOW Students of the Word curriculum though, because it's a tried an true method that I've been successful with, using the KJV as the primary literature book.

 

Did my son find Dryden's translation of the Aeneid so easy to read, because he had been prepped for it, or because he was genetically gifted? I don't know. I do agree that kids that are the most likely to read advanced literature as teens, will pick up adult books on their own as young children. As a first grader this child used to stare for hours at a copy of the second volume of the Jurassic Park series. To this day I don't know if he could even read at all at that point. The child barely spoke, never mind read a aloud, and neither his teacher or I had any idea what he knew and didn't know.

[Arcadia]

Ds specifically asked about Sherlock Holmes, but I couldn't remember if they had any inappropriate content. He'll be thrilled to get permission to read these books.

I read the unabridged collection at elementary, hubby read them recently. No inapproriate content we can think of. My rising 4th grader would be doing Hound of the Baskervilles for Literature next year.

The version we own is The Original Illustrated Sherlock Holmes (http://www.amazon.com/The-Original-Illustrated-Sherlock-Holmes/dp/078581325X).

[Crimson Wife]

Okay. Seriously. I'm not pushing my kids or hot-housing them. They asked for more advanced books, I couldn't think of any, I asked for suggestions. That's all. And I'm not even reading the Hihh School Superstars book to get my kid into Harvard, just to encourage him to develop some interests.

 

I was taking issue with the quote from Cal Newport, not your question about finding challenging books. :chillpill: :chillpill: :chillpill:

[J-rap]

A couple of my children were ready for adult books in 4th grade. DIckens was perfect. We started with Great Expectations, David Copperfield, and A Tale of Two Cities. They also enjoyed Agatha Christie mysteries, books by Robert Louis Stevenson, and books by Arthur Conan Doyle. My son absolutely loved Doyle's lesser known books, "The White Company" and "Sir Nigel."

[Violet Crown]

Middle Girl is in that difficult stage where she's bored by most books for children but too little for most adult reading (and too sheltered, thank heaven, for most YA books). Besides the aforementioned Stevenson, Kipling, and Dickens, she's enjoyed collections of A.A. Milne's essays (written for Punch long ago) and Gerald Durrell, as well as plowing through stacks of horrible inspiring biographies for adolescents from the turn of the previous century with titles like "Leaders of Men," "Men Who Have Risen," and "Tales of Patriotism." She's determined at the moment to be the next Andrew Carnegie. (I haven't the heart to tell her we're too middle class for her to rise from poverty to greatness.)

[happypamama]

DD, age 11, has inquired about Sherlock Holmes. I'm very conservative about topics (especially romance/s*x); DH says there is nothing inappropriate in Sherlock Holmes.

 

Tolkien came to mind here. If they've seen the movies, I don't think that's necessarily a problem; in fact, that's one place where I think it could be a benefit. DD got interested in The Fellowship of The Ring at about eight and plowed through it. I think what made it accessible was that she knew the basic plot and characters already, from the movie, so that removed one element of complexity that might have put it over her head completely. I suppose that's akin to reading Tales From Shakespeare or Bruce Coville's Shakespeare books, and then reading Shakespeare.

 

I agree with having them read older books, even those not necessarily suggested for adults, for the complex sentence structure and rich vocabulary.

[Mommy22alyns]

If your DC have a hobby, or, a subject they are deeply interested in, they can read books that are normally directed to adults, at an early age. I was interested in Amateur Radio (received my Novice license 2 months after my 12th birthday), so I had been reading about that for awhile... Learning Morse Code and studying basic electronics. I remember going to a brick and mortar library when I was a child, and selecting books that were marked for 2 or 3 grade levels above mine. Your DC can read books directed to Adults, but without "adult content"...

 

 

Absolutely a great idea. I've got Rebecca in some gymnastics books at the adult level.

[Pen]

In addition to others suggested, particularly Twain which I think tends to be readable at a young age, Robinson Crusoe might be accessible at that age. Ernest Thompson Seton's Wild Animals I Have Known and James Herriot's books have multi-age suitability.

 

 

I would tend to think the books that were written to be entertainment for a wide audience, like Dickens, would tend to be suitable, as family read togethers as they might have once been read by the whole family when they were published in serial form. That way you can know how the children are doing with the reading and clear up understanding. Sometimes, being able to read in terms of decoding, an adult novel and actually getting a lot out of it may not be the same thing. I know someone who read all of Tale of Two Cities in 3rd grade to impress grownups, but, though definitely a highly gifted child, did not seem to understand what she read. I guess it was fine since it was her own choice to do that--but in other ways it was also a waste of time that might IMHO have been just as well spent, with more understanding though less impressiveness, on Harry Potter. Of Dickens, I would tend to start with A Christmas Carol and then go to Oliver Twist with a child as main character and a happy ending for that main character, then maybe the Pickwick Papers which is quite funny, or David Copperfield which is quite accessible. Some of the others (eg Tale of Two Cities) are very highly dependent on adult romance plot lines, or have very sad endings for a main character as with The Old Curiosity Shop.

 

May I also suggest, or second the suggestion, of adult nonfiction rather than fiction--there could be less of a problem with content being unsuitable in nonfiction if you choose it well.

 

I'd also suggest perusing any choice yourself before going with it. For example, personally, I think Call of the Wild is awfully brutal in a very realistic way--more than my ds was ready for at 9yo, but that could be different for your 9yo. Secret Garden, otoh, for him would have been fine had he been interested in it at that time. I also loved Agatha Christie when young, but not sure about it for age 9... Maturity develops a lot between 9 and 12, and while I don't recall anything explicit in Christie, there were a lot of fraught male/female relationships as I remember the books I read...one where a man is determined to be the only one in a woman's life, to the point of threats, murders etc....--maybe you need an exact recommendation as to what Agatha Christies are okay at that age.

[tammyw]

I should ask another question - is LOTR a good read aloud? Or better as a read to yourself kind of book?

[Arcadia]

I should ask another question - is LOTR a good read aloud? Or better as a read to yourself kind of book?

 

It is good as both a read aloud and a read yourself. For a mixed group reading, its nice for the listeners to follow along with the maps. http://www.lord-of-the-rings.org/collections/maps.html

I don't have the stamina to read aloud the book to my kids, hubby has though. For read themselves, they can read the whole book or favorite sections at their own time. I read the books when I was bored in 2nd grade.

[Pen]

In addition to others suggested, particularly Twain which I think tends to be readable at a young age, Robinson Crusoe might be accessible at that age. Ernest Thompson Seton's Wild Animals I Have Known and James Herriot's books have multi-age suitability.

 

...

 

I'd also suggest perusing any choice yourself before going with it. ...

 

 

Even if I was the one to suggest it! I just looked at Wild Animals I Have Known and am questioning whether it is suitable for a 9 or 10 yo either, due to violence/ brutality toward animals.

 

 

BTW, I know this is about that it is what your kids want to do, not what Cal Newport wrote, but I want to add that I went to a new school nearly every two years, of very different quality and quite different socioeconomics and different college attendance patterns. Almost everyone from my New York City private school--which was the best of the schools I went to from k-12, and did tent to feed into Ivies and other elite colleges, and was limited to "gifted" children in the first place-- had superb scores on SATs and I am quite sure that most were not reading adult books as 3rd and 4th graders (I babysat kids in that age range and have a good idea of their reading), unless you count something like Tom Sawyer as an "adult" book.

 

Quite aside from "correlation" versus "causation," I do not even know if the "correlation" is warranted, particularly with not knowing what CN thinks of as "adult" books.

[wallingjan]

I loved Sherlock Holmes (and still do) but I seem to remember thinking the last time I read them that Holmes drug addiction in some of the later stories wasn't something I wanted my daughter to read. She is older now, so I'll just preread and then discuss them with her.

[Ali in OR]

Just wanted to add that we do well with doing a lot of these books as read-alouds. My almost 13 yo has also read some on her own, but I often choose the more challenging books as read-alouds so I can check for comprehension (A Tale of Two Cities is actually hard to figure out in places), we can discuss themes, we can predict what might happen next, etc. For their free reading, they seem to enjoy easier, lighter fare. Both are reading Erin Hunter's Warriors series at the moment, they re-read Harry Potter all of the time, etc.

 

Some of the "classics" we've done successfully (most as read-alouds, a couple were 12 yo on her own)

Twain-The Prince and the Pauper and Tom Sawyer

Dickens-A Christmas Carol and A Tale of Two Cities

Alcott-Little Women

Tolkein-The Hobbit

Elliot-Silas Marner

Stephenson-Treasure Island

 

I'm still figuring out next year (I think my list is longer than we can do), but I would love to do:

The Red Badge of Courage (and if you have boys I would think war books would be good)

All Quiet on the Western Front

My Antonia

Huckleberry Finn

A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

The Time Machine

To Kill a Mockingbird

The Diary of Anne Frank

The Hiding Place

Oliver Twist or Great Expectations

Animal Farm

 

So many books, so little time!