Secretive Family Culture

[Ginevra]

Did anyone else grow up with this particular dysfunction? I could write an encyclopedia of examples, but what's bothering me at the moment is that some of my grown sibs still operate this way. I just talked to one of my sibs and learned about marital problems that I am *totally shocked* are present. This has been going on for many months, but sib said, "Nobody knows (in our family and friends)." Good grief! I'm horrified enough to learn about this, but now I feel like I have "the secret" and I neither want to tell anybody/everybody, nor do I want to be "in the know" about something pertinent that really should be freely known. :( I told dh about the problems and he also asked, "So, are we supposed to be keeping this a secret or what?

 

I don't like this. I have been in this spot before, knowing about something going on and having to say nothing when my mother (or whomever) is wondering about XYZ and I have the info but am not at liberty to share.

 

P.S. My mother has serious health problems, so if my sib was keeping it quiet before, this is not a good time to hang out the dirty laundry, kwim?

[Danestress]

It is hard to know if you are in a negative family culture when you are in it, because it seems normal to you. But yes, my sisters and I share things we would not want shared with our mother - or aunt, cousins, friends etc. basically I would consider any marital thing a secret unless it clearly wasn't intended to be.

[Mona100]

Yes, I come from a secret family too. Started with my mother's mother not telling anyone not even her husband that she had breast cancer but she told my mom who was an older teenager at the time and my mom helped take care of her until you couldn't hide the fact that my mother's mother was sick.

My father has older sons from a previous marriage and sometimes he hides the fact from them that he is in the hospital or sick from the sons but not from me. He had non Hodgkin's lymphoma last year and I was even in the dark about how serious it was until I had to take him to one of his chemo treatments but only because mother broke a rib. Before her broke rib, I wasn't allowed to take him to the doctor or to chemo. Several oncologists would not touch him because he was so riddled with tumors. I found this out from the onocologist who did treat him.

 

Also, my mother has repeatedly told me that she is not going to tell anyone that my father is dead until she has him cremated. It is a weird family life when you come from a secret family. I feel your pain, OP.

[briansmama]

I'd try to act like you don't know. Marital issues are rarely one-sided and really aren't anyone's business unless they are actually in the marriage.

 

 

[Guest]

 

I agree. I would be pretty annoyed that I had told someone in confidence about my marital problems and then they went blabbing to others about it. I think stuff like that is pretty personal.

 

Well, I agree with that part of it - there is no part of me whatsoever that wants to tell my parents or other siblings or whomever. I just can't understand why my sib has not said anything or given any indication that anything was not hunky-dory. I would have placed these two at the top of my list of the Greatest Couples I Know. I was sketching out some plans in the back of my mind to go see sibling and bring my mother along as a treat! This changed because my mom has breast cancer now, so I have no idea what will be happening this summer, but now I find out the visit would be very different from what I thought.

[Guest]

Yes, I come from a secret family too. Started with my mother's mother not telling anyone not even her husband that she had breast cancer but she told my mom who was an older teenager at the time and my mom helped take care of her until you couldn't hide the fact that my mother's mother was sick.

My father has older sons from a previous marriage and sometimes he hides the fact from them that he is in the hospital or sick from the sons but not from me. He had non Hodgkin's lymphoma last year and I was even in the dark about how serious it was until I had to take him to one of his chemo treatments but only because mother broke a rib. Before her broke rib, I wasn't allowed to take him to the doctor or to chemo. Several oncologists would not touch him because he was so riddled with tumors. I found this out from the onocologist who did treat him.

 

Also, my mother has repeatedly told me that she is not going to tell anyone that my father is dead until she has him cremated. It is a weird family life when you come from a secret family. I feel your pain, OP.

 

I've dealt with issues exactly like this. Medical problems are a big secret. Emotionally-charged problems are, too. I hate it. Nobody can help one another because nobody knows what's going on.

[Guest]

I'd try to act like you don't know. Marital issues are rarely one-sided and really aren't anyone's business unless they are actually in the marriage.

 

Do you think this is so if there is a separation? A separated couple keeping family members in another state unaware for months and months is bizarrely secretive to me. I'm not saying the *reason* is anyone's business, just the fact that all is not cherries and lollipops.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I don't know. I don't see this example as secretive so much as keeping private things private. Family members often hold grudges even when a spouse has moved on. If issues (and not necessarily even specific reasons or who is at fault, just that there are issues at all) were shared but then resolved, and then the couple moved on, this black cloud would still be there, hanging forever in some people's minds. Some things are best left unshared, and the person most affected should be given the privilege of making that call.

[Annie G]

Dh's family is so secretive that it's dysfunctional. MIL had breast cancer return and didn't tell us for months. FIL was diagnosed with diabetes and didn't tell us for a YEAR. Even if we tell them good news- like recently dd got a great scholarship for her choice college- they didn't tell dh's sister or anyone because we didn't specifically tell them they could.

It's annoying.

 

But I wouldn't expect to know about marital issues of siblings- I'd expect that to stay private unless it was a separation or divorce.

[Parrothead]

I suppose it depends on the why of the secretiveness. Around here we don't tell my mom anything because she won't like it.

[Guest]

I don't know. I don't see this example as secretive so much as keeping private things private. Family members often hold grudges even when a spouse has moved on. If issues (and not necessarily even specific reasons or who is at fault, just that there are issues at all) were shared but then resolved, and then the couple moved on, this black cloud would still be there, hanging forever in some people's minds. Some things are best left unshared, and the person most effected should be give the privilege of making that call.

 

 

Well, that is a fair point...

 

Dh's family is so secretive that it's dysfunctional. MIL had breast cancer return and didn't tell us for months. FIL was diagnosed with diabetes and didn't tell us for a YEAR. Even if we tell them good news- like recently dd got a great scholarship for her choice college- they didn't tell dh's sister or anyone because we didn't specifically tell them they could.

It's annoying.

 

But I wouldn't expect to know about marital issues of siblings- I'd expect that to stay private unless it was a separation or divorce.

 

 

It is a separation. They have been apart for many months.

[Farrar]

In dh's family, they never talk about issues, but then his mother expects everyone to know what they are. The most bizarre example of this was that we visited his grandparents' graves and there was a whole family plot. We were standing around, remarking that mil's grandmother died so young, but we didn't know why. The conversation went on for a few minutes and then mil said, "Well, she did kill herself, you know." UM! No! No, we did not know! But she clearly thought we should have! We've seen it with more recent things too, but it always amazes me. I mean, how do we know if you don't tell us?

 

I can understand it better with marital issues, but if people have moved out, it does feel like that's not private anymore. Just share.

[Danestress]

I absolutely understand keeping a separation secret. Divorce is complicated financially and emotionally, and often there are dozens of difficult issues to resolve. Many family members want to jump into the fray, offer advice, etc. I think it is very normal to keep this secret.

[Guest]

In dh's family, they never talk about issues, but then his mother expects everyone to know what they are. The most bizarre example of this was that we visited his grandparents' graves and there was a whole family plot. We were standing around, remarking that mil's grandmother died so young, but we didn't know why. The conversation went on for a few minutes and then mil said, "Well, she did kill herself, you know." UM! No! No, we did not know! But she clearly thought we should have! We've seen it with more recent things too, but it always amazes me. I mean, how do we know if you don't tell us?

 

I can understand it better with marital issues, but if people have moved out, it does feel like that's not private anymore. Just share.

 

I do know exactly how this is. It *is* bizarre! There have been many times when there's been a remark like, "Well, it's no surprise your uncle died of cirrhosis of the liver, with the way he lived his life..." Um, what? Or children born (cousins) under sketchy circumstances - I'm supposed to know things about them, though everything was taboo and not talked about. I don't even know their names or who their fathers are, but I'm supposed to somehow know if something comes up in a conversation. It's very puzzling.

[Chris in VA]

I'm not sure about the secret thing--marital seems a little more privacy-driven. I think there are some subjects that healthy families share about.

My family is full of minimizing, a particular form of secretiveness that comes with the territory when you are talking alcoholic families. My husband's is really secretive--and they don't think of spouses as part of the family, really, at least not as close as siblings--often dh knows way more than I do, and it's his family culture not to share (again, dysfunctional) hardly anything.

[Guest]

I absolutely understand keeping a separation secret. Divorce is complicated financially and emotionally, and often there are dozens of difficult issues to resolve. Many family members want to jump into the fray, offer advice, etc. I think it is very normal to keep this secret.

 

Hmm. Interesting perspective.

 

I was entertaining a line of reasoning in my mind where I wonder if scattered families make divorce more likely, precisely because there is more ability to hide problems until it's totally OVER. If my dh and I were separated, I couldn't keep this hidden for so much as one week; we are surrounded by family and there is simply no way it could be hidden. In a way, having a lot of family around probably is something of an adhesive during rocky marital times. At least, that was the thought process I was pondering in the wake of my sib's revelation.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't care what kind of family culture you come from but marital issues are VERY private. I would be surprised if they were shared openly. If my husband were sharing openly every issue we had, I would feel violated. If someone moved out or initiated a separation, I think it would be normal for the family to know, but not every blow-by-blow beforehand. My family isn't particularly close so there are lots of things I don't know about. I am sure the large age differences have something to do with it.

[Ravin]

It's an unhealthy way of thinking, and one one of my sister is heavily engaged in, to her own detriment. She's set up in her own mind that my stepdad is a "bad guy" so she's cut my mom and stepdad out of her life, doesn't want them to know where she's living. she's taken to avoiding my dad, too, and my other sister, who lives with her, gets sucked into it way more than she cares to.

 

The thing is, if she had been more forthcoming and asked for help when her marriage was in trouble, maybe the family could have intervened to protect her and her kids and get her husband help before he went off the deep end. Since no one helped her because no one knew what was going on, she's decided that she can't trust anyone and is even more secretive than ever.

 

Fortunately my other sister and her husband have some sense and are a stabilizing presence for my niece and nephew. And she lets my niece talk to my DD. But she has this attitude that secrets are appropriate when anyone healthier mentally can see they aren't.

[nd293]

I don't know. I don't see this example as secretive so much as keeping private things private.

 

I agree. And I wonder in many of the examples of 'secrecy' in this thread it is a case of the secretive person simply not wanting to deal with other people's reactions. If I was diagnosed with cancer I could see myself delaying telling someone close to me because this person's emotional and practical response would be a burden to me. I would see it as my right to priorities my own needs at that time, rather than spending my energy dealing with other people's reactions. The same might go for a marital separation.

[dbmamaz]

I think the point is that in an 'ideal' family, people support each other through problems. I knew one person who said that, when he and his wife were having marital problems, both sets of parents pushed them to work through it. Keeping the 'state' of your marriage private is to some extent a way to continue the belief that its shameful to have marital problems. If we could communicate more openly we would have a better idea of what is a 'normal' rough patch and what is abuse . . . but if you think these issues are too private to talk to your family about, you cant get any support

 

My family drives me nuts with things like . .. my sister told me that my mother's boyfriend finally bought her an engagement ring nice enough that she was willing to wear it, and they are engaged . . . but she wont TELL anyone because she wants them to 'notice' and ask. Except I dont see her very often and I honestly am not that observant about jewelry. But my sister told me and made me promise not to tell my mom . . . i dont think i've spoken to my sister in 3 years now (whole nother issue) which means my mom has been engaged for 3 years and never spoken to me about it.

 

My mother also had affairs on my dad . .i think dishonesty is just her natural way of being. Its one of the big reasons I cant be close to her - i never know what to believe. She doesnt understand it at all.

 

oddly, my husband is a very 'private' person . . he didnt want to tell his friends at work what hospital i was having a baby at in case they might try to visit. I thought they might just send flowers, you know?

 

I'm a totally open person and i've never suffered any negative consequences from my total honesty, which really makes me wonder why people want to keep so many secrets

[Hoot]

Yes, my family is pretty secretive and to themselves. I know very little regarding what goes on. It doesn't really bother me. I figure if the person wants me to know they will tell me.

 

This is exactly how my family is, though I don't consider it to be true dysfunction so much as a lack of closeness. I am not close with anyone in my family. None of the rest of them are close with each other either. Everyone just kind of does their own thing. Even when we do talk or are together I don't feel the need to share things with them. It just feels terribly "me-centric" to call anyone (family or otherwise) to tell them what's going on in my life. My dad had apparently had pretty major emergency eye surgery several months ago and he didn't tell me until just recently. It didn't really bother me though. I guess I just don't feel the need to share my business unless I'm pointedly asked - in which case I'm perfectly happy to honestly share - and I'm okay when others make the same choice.

 

On the other hand, I've often been the one that others confide in and that typically comes with a "sworn to secrecy" clause. This doesn't bother me either. I'm always very clear that I won't lie for them if I'm pointedly asked, but I will not outright share things that I've been asked to keep secret. It was really interesting several years ago when my brother and his girlfriend had a child. My brother doesn't speak to anyone in the family, particularly our father. I knew about the baby from day one and was there the day after he was born. The baby even lived with me for almost a month shortly after his birth. My step-mom and step-siblings came by unexpectedly one day when the baby was with me and discovered that they had a second grand-child. That was a fun conversation. :) My family is way dysfunctional... but it has nothing to do with the secrecy. ;)

[Scarlett]

I find that level of secrecy insane. I have learned that not every detail needs to be shared but keeping big secrets is not healthy to me.

 

My niece began dating a man last fall. He already had a cruise with friends planned so he went. Before he left he was telling her to pick out her ring talking about dates in the spring etc. He returns fom his cruise sat night and texts her the next day that he was breaking up with her. She was devastated and confused. A few weeks later I came into possession of information that he was dating a girl he met on the cruise. So I told her. It seemed to me to help her make sense of it. We told her she deserved better and that it was better to earn about his true self now rather than later.

 

That was late November. Mid march she calls me and tells me that they had been dating again since jan, in secret, and were getting married a week from then. It was crazy. My mom BEGGED her to not do it....to give it time etc. so we all scrambled to get to a wedding ( I had to drive 4 hours, everyone else 1 1/2 hours) and attended a small wedding that seemed very hasty. One month later she was back at her moms house ....and has refused to discuss what is wrong.

 

That is normal? I don't like secrets. Sure trouble in marriage can be kept quiet but there comes a point where you might think you need some advise.

[Danestress]

 

Hmm. Interesting perspective.

 

I was entertaining a line of reasoning in my mind where I wonder if scattered families make divorce more likely, precisely because there is more ability to hide problems until it's totally OVER. If my dh and I were separated, I couldn't keep this hidden for so much as one week; we are surrounded by family and there is simply no way it could be hidden. In a way, having a lot of family around probably is something of an adhesive during rocky marital times. At least, that was the thought process I was pondering in the wake of my sib's revelation.

 

 

We are the same way - too physically close as a family for a separation be secret more than 10 minutes, lol.

 

And I don't feel like I have a lot of secrets from MIL or my Mom, but if I had marital issues, I wouldn't discuss it with either of them.

 

I don't know if having family around strengthens a marriage. I think our family is great, helpful, and supportive. But some families are a source of a lot of marital stress, and many people mistake "meddling" for "supporting." I don't feel this is a problem in my family, but I have certainly seen it.

[regentrude]

I would not call this secretive. Marital issues are a private matter to the couple, and broadcasting them to extended family is not helpful.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

I am very private when it comes to my marriage.

 

My spouse and I separated for a few months several years ago and no one knew. Not even her family and she works with her parents in their family business. Both my parents, her parents, and all of our siblings live within 30 minutes if each other. We went to counseling and worked through our issues ourselves.

 

Marriages are private. There was no reason to get our friends and families taking sides or pitting us against each other. We love each other and were not interested in breaking up permanently, we needed some breathing room while we got a handle on a private issue.

 

I just don't see that as disfunctional. In fact, I am extremely uncomfortable with people who feel the need to overshare. I was raised to keep private issues private. That's what I am comfortable with.

 

 

 

[Scarlett]

 

 

We are the same way - too physically close as a family for a separation be secret more than 10 minutes, lol.

 

And I don't feel like I have a lot of secrets from MIL or my Mom, but if I had marital issues, I wouldn't discuss it with either of them.

 

I don't know if having family around strengthens a marriage. I think our family is great, helpful, and supportive. But some families are a source of a lot of marital stress, and many people mistake "meddling" for "supporting." I don't feel this is a problem in my family, but I have certainly seen it.

 

I have seen meddling too. But when something is so serious that there is a seperation......keeping that a secret seems crazy to me.

 

And btw, I was in a very very bad marriage for 26 years. I tried every method of dealing with it.....keeping it a secret was not good for my psyche.

[Annie G]

I am very private when it comes to my marriage.

 

My spouse and I separated for a few months several years ago and no one knew. Not even her family and she works with her parents in their family business. Both my parents, her parents, and all of our siblings live within 30 minutes if each other. We went to counseling and worked through our issues ourselves.

 

Marriages are private. There was no reason to get our friends and families taking sides or pitting us against each other. We love each other and were not interested in breaking up permanently, we needed some breathing room while we got a handle on a private issue.

 

I just don't see that as disfunctional. In fact, I am extremely uncomfortable with people who feel the need to overshare. I was raised to keep private issues private. That's what I am comfortable with.

 

Glad you were able to work it out! I have a question, though. During that time, were you never invited over for dinner or a birthday party or anything? Because that's kind of why I think I'd let my family know if this happened to us- so they wouldn't invite us as a family to events while we were working on things. Otherwise I can easily see our families getting their feelings hurt if dh didn't show up to events on my side of the family, or I didn't appear at his family events. Giving a discreet heads up isn't the same as airing dirty laundry or allowing family members to butt in with unsolicited advice.

[LibraryLover]

Why do you think your sister has to tell you everything/anything happening in her family? Some things really are private.

[Guest]

I think the point is that in an 'ideal' family, people support each other through problems. I knew one person who said that, when he and his wife were having marital problems, both sets of parents pushed them to work through it. Keeping the 'state' of your marriage private is to some extent a way to continue the belief that its shameful to have marital problems. If we could communicate more openly we would have a better idea of what is a 'normal' rough patch and what is abuse . . . but if you think these issues are too private to talk to your family about, you cant get any support

 

Yes, that is what I'm thinking, too. I was a witness to their marriage as they made vows before God (which does matter to them). Doesn't that have any validity anymore? The idea that I'm "pulling for" them staying together, to honor their commitment to one another, to love one another? How can anyone help support the marriages they were witness to if nobody knows anything is going on until the divorce papers are final?

 

My family drives me nuts with things like . .. my sister told me that my mother's boyfriend finally bought her an engagement ring nice enough that she was willing to wear it, and they are engaged . . . but she wont TELL anyone because she wants them to 'notice' and ask. Except I dont see her very often and I honestly am not that observant about jewelry. But my sister told me and made me promise not to tell my mom . . . i dont think i've spoken to my sister in 3 years now (whole nother issue) which means my mom has been engaged for 3 years and never spoken to me about it.

 

My mother also had affairs on my dad . .i think dishonesty is just her natural way of being. Its one of the big reasons I cant be close to her - i never know what to believe. She doesnt understand it at all.

 

oddly, my husband is a very 'private' person . . he didnt want to tell his friends at work what hospital i was having a baby at in case they might try to visit. I thought they might just send flowers, you know?

 

Well, I think I'm a very private person and I'm not quick to reveal a lot of things, either. But I do think there's a place where we should be able to reveal ourselves so that others may help us with our troubles.

 

I'm a totally open person and i've never suffered any negative consequences from my total honesty, which really makes me wonder why people want to keep so many secrets

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

 

 

Glad you were able to work it out! I have a question, though. During that time, were you never invited over for dinner or a birthday party or anything? Because that's kind of why I think I'd let my family know if this happened to us- so they wouldn't invite us as a family to events while we were working on things. Otherwise I can easily see our families getting their feelings hurt if dh didn't show up to events on my side of the family, or I didn't appear at his family events. Giving a discreet heads up isn't the same as airing dirty laundry or allowing family members to butt in with unsolicited advice.

 

Oh, yes. Usually one of us "wasn't feeling up to visiting." Sometimes we had to be grown-ups and be at a family function together and play nice. We have children and grandchildren so we never had the option of completely disengaging anyway.

[Tita Gidge]

I come from a large, closeknit family living in a tiny village on a little island.

 

There were never any secrets, family or not LOL.

 

I actually kind of like it. I think it works for us because being "in the know" isn't really a power play, if that makes sense. And it's kind of like how you can confess anything to a Catholic priest because "he's heard it all!" ... anything that's ever been done or had (or anyone for that matter!) has been done or had by someone else on the island sometime before. There's nothin' new under the sun out there.

 

We have a few obnoxious, kooky folks but for the most part we're an easy-going people. We gossip because we care ;) or maybe that's just how we justify it LOL. But truly, for the most part we use our knowledge to rally and support our friends and family, not to divide ourselves or take sides. That's hard to do in a small town anyway, with generations of overlap between longstanding families.

 

My family's way isn't perfect. It's particularly hard for those spouses of a different culture who married into our family, but they eventually come around (and in our own way, we're becoming less invasive when we know it's an issue for a marriage). But I much prefer the openness to secrecy; maybe that's just because it's all I know but man - the secrets have to be exhausting and such a wear and tear on one's mind, body, and soul! I can see how it'd feel like a burden to be in the know for these types of families :(

[Guest]

Why do you think your sister has to tell you everything/anything happening in her family? Some things really are private.

 

I don't. I can't imagine keeping something so fundamental a secret. That means even my Christmas card came to a residence that only one of them was living in.

[Scarlett]

 

 

I don't. I can't imagine keeping something so fundamental a secret. That means even my Christmas card came to a residence that only one of them was living in.

 

And that is the point that their 'privacy' affects others. It makes people feel foolish.

[Guest]

I come from a large, closeknit family living in a tiny village on a little island.

 

There were never any secrets, family or not LOL.

 

I actually kind of like it. I think it works for us because being "in the know" isn't really a power play, if that makes sense. And it's kind of like how you can confess anything to a Catholic priest because "he's heard it all!" ... anything that's ever been done or had (or anyone for that matter!) has been done or had by someone else on the island sometime before. There's nothin' new under the sun out there.

 

We have a few obnoxious, kooky folks but for the most part we're an easy-going people. We gossip because we care ;) or maybe that's just how we justify it LOL. But truly, for the most part we use our knowledge to rally and support our friends and family, not to divide ourselves or take sides. That's hard to do in a small town anyway, with generations of overlap between longstanding families.

 

My family's way isn't perfect. It's particularly hard for those spouses of a different culture who married into our family, but they eventually come around (and in our own way, we're becoming less invasive when we know it's an issue for a marriage). But I much prefer the openness to secrecy; maybe that's just because it's all I know but man - the secrets have to be exhausting and such a wear and tear on one's mind, body, and soul! I can see how it'd feel like a burden to be in the know for these types of families :(

 

That reminds me of the little clip from the old movie "Crocodile Dundee." The news reporter is explaining to the Australian bushman that people see a "shrink" to talk about their problems. Dundee says they don't have anything like that there. "Around here, if you have a problem, you tell Mick (the bartender). Mick tells everyone - no more problem." :laugh:

[Murphy101]

Well, I agree with that part of it - there is no part of me whatsoever that wants to tell my parents or other siblings or whomever. I just can't understand why my sib has not said anything or given any indication that anything was not hunky-dory. I would have placed these two at the top of my list of the Greatest Couples I Know. I was sketching out some plans in the back of my mind to go see sibling and bring my mother along as a treat! This changed because my mom has breast cancer now, so I have no idea what will be happening this summer, but now I find out the visit would be very different from what I thought.

 

I don't think her marriage is anyone's business until she decides it should be.

 

Most of what has been listed in this thread I don't think as secrecy, much less a dysfunctional level of it.

 

More likely they are simply going along with their lives as best they can and simply don't share what they view as private information. Either because they aren't ready to deal with everyone else's reactions to it or because, painful tho it might be to you, they just don't want to share their private life that deeply with you. Your desire to know and offer help doesn't mean they owe you what you want. I find that rather more bizarre than them not telling you. *confused*

 

[Garga]

Unless there are clear signs of bizarre dysfunction, what is being called "keeping secrets" is what I would call "being private."

 

Aunt Marge's suicide? Uncle Bob's cirrhosis from drunkeness? Those things are their private business and discussing the issues with extended family is gossip. Keeping mum about it is what I would call discretion.

 

Families that don't have a lot of drama perhaps keep what others would call "secrets." But I would call it "keeping a confidence."

[Murphy101]

I don't. I can't imagine keeping something so fundamental a secret. That means even my Christmas card came to a residence that only one of them was living in.

 

 

I do not comprehend that attitude at all.

 

I read that as -

 

It is her marriage falling apart and you are upset bc you feel she was inconsiderate of your feelings about it?

 

I really find that mind boggling.

 

You seem like a nice enough person, so I'm presuming you don't actually intend it that way. But I'm a rather private person and that's exactly how it would come across to me. You presume she was purposely keeping a secret and it may not be that way.

[Lilaclady]

I do agree with Quill that that kind of privacy could contribute to making divorce more common. We just had friends who got divorced around here. The did not tell anyone they were having issues until he papers had been signed. They both moved here from Florida and Chicago so their relatives were far away. The husband even got together with my Dh but never mentioned it.

Most families that are so secretive like that at not particularly close and not generally there for each other as much.

[dbmamaz]

but i still believe that this kind of secret-keeping makes abuse so much easier . . . no one would ever know .. .

[Murphy101]

I don't think it makes divorce easier. I think it can make staying together easier.

 

It's hard enough for the couple to get through their own crap. Dealing with other people dealing with their crap is just way too much crap to get through.

[Murphy101]

Abuse is the first thing mentioned in this thread that I would call genuine dysfunctional secret keeping.

[regentrude]

I was entertaining a line of reasoning in my mind where I wonder if scattered families make divorce more likely, precisely because there is more ability to hide problems until it's totally OVER. If my dh and I were separated, I couldn't keep this hidden for so much as one week; we are surrounded by family and there is simply no way it could be hidden. In a way, having a lot of family around probably is something of an adhesive during rocky marital times.

 

 

I fail to understand how the meddling of extended family is supposed to help a couple with marital troubles. I would consider it more likely that it would make things worse when the family members take sides, judge, push their idea of a solution. Especially if you have both spouses' families involved, that seems a recipe for disaster and not "adhesive".

Involving the extended families in marital difficulties is quite likely to cause a rift between the two sides that will persist long after the couple might have solved their problem so that they now have to deal with strife in the extended family that would never have existed had they solved their issue privately.

[regentrude]

I do agree with Quill that that kind of privacy could contribute to making divorce more common. We just had friends who got divorced around here. The did not tell anyone they were having issues until he papers had been signed. They both moved here from Florida and Chicago so their relatives were far away. The husband even got together with my Dh but never mentioned it.

 

 

Why should he mention it to your DH? Why would that be your DH's business? And how would the relatives being closer presumably have helped?

[regentrude]

I was a witness to their marriage as they made vows before God (which does matter to them). Doesn't that have any validity anymore? The idea that I'm "pulling for" them staying together, to honor their commitment to one another, to love one another? How can anyone help support the marriages they were witness to if nobody knows anything is going on until the divorce papers are final?

 

Now what do you think you could have done to save their marriage? Don't you completely overestimate the impact you as an outsider can have on the relationship of two other people - even if they are family?

I can't fathom what you expect to be able to have accomplished had they told you. Talked to them and admonished them that they should better stay married? ( Because that would have never occurred to them on their own? ) Told them about how it is possible to reconcile all differences? I simply can't imagine what you believe you could have done to fix their marriage.

[Rosie_0801]

When people divorce, the odds are pretty good that the help and support people want to offer was needed three or more years ago. Probably way back when the two involved didn't know they needed it yet. Once you are separated or divorced, what you need is money to pay bills and a place to stay, preferably a hundred km from anyone with an opinion, so you can lick your wounds and work on your unwanted identity change. Or so is my experience. Happily, I got that support. Now, the pre-split "help" was not nearly so positive and encouraging. Criticising me on all my most sensitive points did nothing but speed up the inevitable.

[KungFuPanda]

I'm afraid I have to side with the secretive people. I LIKE people. I'm even an extrovert. However, I don't like to share my pain and there's no point in sharing it with people who can't help JUST so they'll feel like they're in the loop. My privacy is nobody's business and, family or not, I think it's weird that anyone would feel entitled to such information.

[Scarlett]

[/color]

 

Now what do you think you could have done to save their marriage? Don't you completely overestimate the impact you as an outsider can have on the relationship of two other people - even if they are family?

I can't fathom what you expect to be able to have accomplished had they told you. Talked to them and admonished them that they should better stay married? ( Because that would have never occurred to them on their own? ) Told them about how it is possible to reconcile all differences? I simply can't imagine what you believe you could have done to fix their marriage.

 

 

People sometimes can offer counsel and insight that can help. But they can't help if they don't know there is a problem.

[Joker]

My dh comes from a family that keeps everything secret. It's difficult for me to understand because I come from a family that tells each other everything. Seriously, I even know how much money my siblings make. We are excited with promotions and raises and we just don't keep things secret. I have to try and make dh (who likes things kept private) and my family (who lets it all hang out) both happy and it drives me nuts. Fortunately, dh has mostly let me be who I am with my family but wants me to keep quiet when around his family. Separations wouldn't be unknown with my own family, but it happens within dh's family.

[Unicorn.]

I don't think it makes divorce easier. I think it can make staying together easier.

 

It's hard enough for the couple to get through their own crap. Dealing with other people dealing with their crap is just way too much crap to get through.

 

I fail to understand how the meddling of extended family is supposed to help a couple with marital troubles. I would consider it more likely that it would make things worse when the family members take sides, judge, push their idea of a solution. Especially if you have both spouses' families involved, that seems a recipe for disaster and not "adhesive".

Involving the extended families in marital difficulties is quite likely to cause a rift between the two sides that will persist long after the couple might have solved their problem so that they now have to deal with strife in the extended family that would never have existed had they solved their issue privately.

 

When people divorce, the odds are pretty good that the help and support people want to offer was needed three or more years ago. Probably way back when the two involved didn't know they needed it yet. Once you are separated or divorced, what you need is money to pay bills and a place to stay, preferably a hundred km from anyone with an opinion, so you can lick your wounds and work on your unwanted identity change. Or so is my experience. Happily, I got that support. Now, the pre-split "help" was not nearly so positive and encouraging. Criticising me on all my most sensitive points did nothing but speed up the inevitable.

 

 

This, this, this, and this! It's nobody's business but the couple who is struggling. OP- feel honored that she trusted you enough to share what little she did, be there for her however you can, but this isn't about you. It's personal, and she (they) need to deal w/ it in their own way. I realize that some of you are the type that need to spill the beans, and need physical/moral support when dealing w/ these types of things (my sister is this way). However, reading some of your replies, I just cringed! I'm a very private person, and I wouldn't want anyone offering me advice, trying to get me to do what they thought was the right thing (telling me to go to counseling or whatever- my marriage- my problem- my solution) All of this "help" would send me over the edge!

[LibraryLover]

I don't. I can't imagine keeping something so fundamental a secret. That means even my Christmas card came to a residence that only one of them was living in.

 

 

 

But. That really is up to them.

 

You can't imagine it. They can.

 

People handle these things in their own way. Your family culture may not feel right to them at this point.

 

That doesn't make either of you wrong. :)