Why the dislike for Sonlight?

[jessie410]

I have been reading through numerous threads and have noticed a trend that many people are basically boycotting Sonlight. It looks like it is mostly from those who have used it in the past, but for some reason, have become offended by something and refuse to use it anymore. I have been strongly considering Sonlight for several reasons, but it concerns me to see so many who don't like it. I can't seem to find any solid reasons WHY anyone feels this way. I can understand not agreeing with the way certain things are taught, but what I am seeing seems to go beyond that.

 

I realize this may be a hot topic, but would anyone mind explaining to me specific reasons why you no longer support this company (or never have)? I would like to see if the issues others have are things that I would take issue with or not so I can make a well informed decision. Thanks!

[TraceyS/FL]

I decided awhile back that it wasn't going to be for me, based on some personal faith issues.

 

Unrelated, I was off the boards here for a chunk of time, but apparently they have made some changes that basically means to me they do not want me as a customer anyway. Someone that knows that all first hand can share that.

[jessie410]

I decided awhile back that it wasn't going to be for me, based on some personal faith issues.

 

Unrelated, I was off the boards here for a chunk of time, but apparently they have made some changes that basically means to me they do not want me as a customer anyway. Someone that knows that all first hand can share that.

 

 

That is something I have been seeing, that they don't want certain people as customers. Hoping someone will clarify that.

 

And for those that are comfortable sharing, I would love to know what faith issues SL didn't mesh with so I'll know if I'll mesh or not :)

[PentecostalMom]

They don't "mesh" with my faith, but I don't choose curricula based on my religion or I would have to create my own. I use my own Biblical studies and don't use notes or anything else I feel is not useful for our homeschool, just like thousands of other homschool parents do with the extrmemly wide variety of curricula that is out there.

 

I think the word "tweak" is one of the most used ones in the homeschool world these days, I don't recall hearing or reading it every other post more than a decade ago when we started hsing. Then again, WTM wasn't even out when we started either, nor quite a bit of stuff that people use today.

 

We have been schooling with SL more than 10 years with no intent to change. If I based everything I did on my faith, I almost couldn't leave the house. :)

[Lara in Colo]

I would also like to know what the issue is--- I read the slavery thread and I cannot say it made me upset enough to leave Sonlight.

I have several cores and I have some issues with them (that mostly is about me and how I teach and my children learn). I cannot say that I really love the commentary in the IG's, but next year I will really work better at being more true to the IG--- I sort of get lazy/busy and neglect the discussion time. As to the faith issues, I would like to know as well what others have found objectionable.

I have a stronger reason for keeping it--- my school district pays for it. (brightflash version)

[TraceyS/FL]

I have nothing to quote as objectionable, my reasons are slightly personal and not something I want to air at the moment.

 

I'm sure there are faiths you can think of that might not mesh with Sonlight?

 

Secular Sonlight/Bright Flash has the potential to be different.

[funathome]

I have been using Sonlight for 13 years, and one of the "ones" who, as of next year are not using any more.

Why?

Let me see if I can answer with out offending. It is harder to write "feelings on a computer" than to talk in person, for me.

 

Sonlight used to be simple to see what you wanted to use by GRADE. Then they went to CORE, follow by a number which was usually grade related but now is CORE followed by an alphabet. (i.e. Grade 2 was now Core 2, which is Now Core B) . It is like they are "competing" or something. I understand the need to re-evaluate your product and to improve but it doesn't come across that they are doing that. It is more confusing. It seemed like to me they "changed" just because it had been a while since they had made any "changes". :huh:

Then the TM (Teacher Manuals) became the nightmare from >>> well. I can't type the word here. What the ???? You went from easily finding/following in the TM to flipping, flopping, placing a tag/paperclip and/or out of frustration just placing your weeks worth of the TM in different 3 ring binder to simplify.

The content also changed. Harder to explain unless you actually used the previous/older TM and can compare by experience. (Hence ~ older customers no longer using, but newer customers not realizing the difference.)

Sonlight got rid of their "used forum" for sale. They have the attitude of essentially purchase from them, or not at all. This isn't always possible and therefore made Sonlight now inaccessible for some. They made some "dry/flippant" remarks on their used/for sale Forum (to announce the closing of the used/for sale board) which was not necessary.

Now, someone may look as this and think this isn't too bad all in all. It is just that over time things have happened, perceptions have changed and Sonlight took some thing that wasn't broken and broke it.

 

Amy

...who is stepping off her soapbox now. :lol:

[jessie410]

I have nothing to quote as objectionable, my reasons are slightly personal and not something I want to air at the moment.

 

I'm sure there are faiths you can think of that might not mesh with Sonlight?

 

Secular Sonlight/Bright Flash has the potential to be different.

 

Obviously non-Christian faiths won't mesh, I guess am more specifically referring to Christian doctrine. I have seen a thousand different definitions for Christian on these boards so not everyone who says they are Christian believes the same. When I see so many running from SL, I want to know if the issue is something that can be ignored or that I feel comfortable with exposing my children to. If there are fundamental doctrine differences/issues, that plays a factor in whether I choose the curriculum or not.

[*Michelle*]

http://www.sonlight.com/not-to-buy.html

 

Numbers 4, 16, 18, 20, 23, and 27.

[NASDAQ]

We're Jewish, so this is the view from the cheap seats.

 

Sonlight is expensive and pretty comprehensive. As a result, I don't think people want to go with it unless it really, really works. It's too expensive and too much time investment unless it really epitomizes what your home school is going for. It's like Tapestry of Grace in this regard. In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

Over time they've made changes (as all businesses do), and while those changes can seem small from the outside, eventually for some people they've added up to just enough that they no longer want to pay that much to do something they're not totally happy with.

[Alyeska]

We can no longer afford it.

 

I had everything in my shopping cart for next year. For one elementary student and one highschool student, it totalled more than $2000.

 

However, using literature based methods and different companies, I was able to purchase every subject for next year (both students!) for $800.

[TraceyS/FL]

Do they have a Statement of Faith on their website? I had not thought to look at that much in the past, but came across it on a website by chance. This company (please do NOT make me remember who it was!!! :p ) was clear about their beliefs/doctrine, and it was nice to have it just there.

 

This might help:

 

http://www.sonlight.com/faq-about-sonlight.html

 

 

What religion does Sonlight Curriculum uphold?

Sonlight Curriculum is a Protestant, Evangelical Christian company, and everything we produce is written through this worldview. Our beliefs would line up more closely with the Reformer's view.

We do, however, sell books by people from other perspectives than our own.

It is our opinion that students should learn different perspectives on important issues. We also prefer to use books from authoritative voices from these perspectives when possible. For example, we would rather carry a book on Catholicism written by a Catholic defending his own view than one written by a Protestant telling what the Catholic view is.

Our study guides include copious notes and commentary to encourage critical thinking and questioning on each topic. The information in the books is never simply accepted at "face value." We want students to interact with their texts, evaluate what they read, and decide on their own where they stand on various issues.

[jessie410]

http://www.sonlight....not-to-buy.html

 

Numbers 4, 16, 18, 20, 23, and 27.

 

 

Those are pretty good reasons :) The changes every year are definitely a turn off.

 

Do they have a Statement of Faith on their website? I had not thought to look at that much in the past, but came across it on a website by chance. This company (please do NOT make me remember who it was!!! :p ) was clear about their beliefs/doctrine, and it was nice to have it just there.

 

This might help:

 

http://www.sonlight....t-sonlight.html

 

Thank you :) I think I have read that before but with all these people suddenly leaving, I wondered if something had changed.

 

So is it just the secular thing people are upset over? Or is there more to it?

[Kathryn]

I left last year. My reasons had to do with the addition of THUMB and providentialist American history books that were previously taken out of the cores with John saying how awful they were, how that and other issues were handled by their employees on their forums, talking to long-time Sonlight users about other issues over the years, and being annoyed and tired of the yearly drama over changes. Since I've left, they began their Phoenix Phaxx program which you can search on here and find discussion about what they think the right kind of Christian is (apparently not Orthodox). Then there was the whole issue of all their pigeon-holing of the right kind of Christianity and how it's their mission to serve God and spread that right kind of Christianity, and then they start this secular offshoot to sell to public schools and lie and say they have nothing to do with it. And then there's this slavery thing. Oh and putting their horrible LA into the cores. It's just one thing after another.

[Shellydon]

I think it is a great curriculum and recommend it all the time for new homeschoolers and those homeschoolers that only have one or two kids. It doesn't work well for us because I have three children, soon to be four, that I teach. I don't want to do 2 or more cores at the same time.

[Spy Car]

Never gave them much of a thought until today, aside from (wrongfully) assuming they were on the less-crazy end of the content-provider spectrum, when I was disabused of my naivitie by John Holzman's bizarre apology for Southern slavery on another thread.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/468105-is-holzman-white-washing-slavery-in-sonlight-core-100/

 

Now when I see "Sonlight" in a thread title I feel quite sick to my stomach.

 

Bill

[Michelle My Bell]

I personally stopped using them after I got a nasty letter (from John) telling me I couldn't resell my core after 1 year because they decided to update it. That is not my problem. I feel like their track record has been very bad business. I have seen issues for years with their business practices. I feel like they use christianity to sell their product but they don't live it in their behavior as a company.

[albeto]

Some reasons I stopped using them:

• Ds got terribly depressed reading book after book after book of people (children) dying, nearly dying, in dangerous situations (I guess the point was to make him feel grateful that Jesus loves him and won't send him to Hell like the poor Native American/Catholic/Hindu/Buddhist/Fill In The Blank, but it was just... depressing)
  
• Condescending towards non US Evangelical culture
  
• Increasingly paranoid
  
• Increasingly deluded
  
• Piss poor language arts program
  
• As I read the upper levels, it was fraught with frustration from veteran homeschoolers who had begged for changes for years and years, only to find out after a hyped-up re-do was really more of the same - inappropriately simple concepts for high school levels, lack of critical thinking skills, substandard guides (like, any one of the members on the forum could have done a better job, and had offered really practical advice, but were routinely ignored).
  
• Their focus is on making new customers, so their efforts are in the very lowest cores, which are now absurdly conspiracy theory oriented.
  

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Back around 2005, Sonlight had a great product for preschool-8th grade. I'm still happily using my ancient IG's with my younger children. (I never used the high school cores.)

 

Now? I have no idea who these people are.

[prairiewindmomma]

I left shortly after they made the forums subscription only and dropped the for sale boards. I left not because I felt that they were making a bad business decision (after all, companies should be profitable), but because of how they handled the decision. I became increasingly uncomfortable with some of the underlying tone and messages that kept coming through communications (the newsletter, emails, etc.). I also realized that most of the upper level materials are wildly grade inappropriate, and that with the yearly schizophrenia of core changes that I could never really plan ahead because who knew how radically a core could change from year to year. For me, things started to go downhill when John left...

 

In the end, I'm glad I left. I found SOTW & other PHP materials and have been happy ever since!

 

---In reading through the above posts, I agree with all that they say.

[Serenade]

I would also like to know what the issue is--- I read the slavery thread and I cannot say it made me upset enough to leave Sonlight.

I have several cores and I have some issues with them (that mostly is about me and how I teach and my children learn). I cannot say that I really love the commentary in the IG's, but next year I will really work better at being more true to the IG--- I sort of get lazy/busy and neglect the discussion time. As to the faith issues, I would like to know as well what others have found objectionable.

I have a stronger reason for keeping it--- my school district pays for it. (brightflash version)

 

 

I mostly have not used the IG notes, at least after my first year. I may change that when my son starts on the high school Cores. I don't have any big problems with the notes -- mostly I just don't like keeping all of that stuff in my notebook and flipping around to find it. It's just easier to read and add my own notes as I go along. Sometimes I check the notes if there is something particular that I don't understand, or if there is a specific note to check, but mostly I do my own thing, using the IG for scheduling purposes only.

 

To the OP -- regarding the discontent? I think there are a lot of people who didn't like it when Sonlight made some changes to the forums, and as a result, they badmouth the curriculum.

 

I think some also feel that Sonlight is dumbing down some of the Cores by removing some of the more difficult books. I have felt a bit of that myself, but now that they are adding a new high school Core, it makes sense in a way. In the past, many people used Sonlight at the higher end of the grade range, and this caused frustration when some of the Cores (for example, Core F/5) were simplified. What were people going to do with their older kids, now that the Cores they had planned on doing were simplified and no longer appropriate for kids on the older end of the age range? However, with the addition of a new high school Core, that helps fix the problem, especially since many people do Core 100 in 8th grade anyhow; now people won't run out of Cores to do quite as easily.

 

I think that is another reason some people left -- Sonlight didn't have the greatest selection of high school materials. The biggest gap was the lack of a world history course. Sonlight finally listened to its customers and is adding a new World History Core, due out this summer or fall. I would have left Sonlight for a time without this addition. Sonlight has also given people the chance to mix and match its high school Cores -- one can purchase the history part of Core 300, for example, but pair it with the literature from Core 200 rather than the designated Core 300 literature.

[Momma2Luke]

I left Sonlight for a few reasons:

 

1) Language Arts program did NOT work for me at all...

2) Their constant yearly changes and the near panic, hype that they would stir up on the forums... then they'd only give you a couple of weeks to purchase the existing IG (which annoyed the people who already HAD all of the books to go with the existing IG).

3) I could be totally wrong about this - but my worry was that they were leaning more and more towards choosing literature selections that could only be purchased exclusively through Sonlight (or that were hard to locate). It seemed to me that they are not interested in the client who only wants to purchase portions of their curriculum... they really seemed to prefer the client to purchase the entire Core program.

[NASDAQ]

Wow. That slavery thread . . . wow.

 

Just wow. I'm going to need to process this.

[Ecclecticmum]

My reasons are: (from 27 reasons not...)

 

1. Because one of my kids is a learner that learns more from pictures. And all three learn from doing, rather than reading. We of course still read :p They (and I) also didn't like the jumping from book to book. And that was our day. Open "this" book and read 22-23, close book, return to shelf, open "next" book and read 63-70, close book, return to shelf, open blah, blah blah. My kids either wanted me to read the book, actually read it, or not read not. Not play musical book hopping. (and my kids liked about 70% of the book selections, I still use their cores for book ideas)

 

2. Yes, yes we do. Their core tips is a nice addition, but to me, its the only interesting thing.

 

11. Some choices are really not needed. I understand where they are coming from. But my 4yo does not need to have a book about dying. She comes across that IRL, and understands at her age level.

 

12. Not neccessarily, but my kids have their own interests that they prefer to pursue. DD7s is Horses, Chemistry and Creative Thinking. DS5s is Mechanics, Geometry, and Robotics. DD4s is Spanish, Singing, and being herself ;) These are academics in some form or another, and I just got tired from most places telling you what your child must learn that particular year.

 

13. Another not really, but I see no point paying for a program, when I am not going to use large chunks of it. All-in-one programs tend to not fit us. i.e. we wouldn't use the bible section, we would ignore half of the read alouds, I'd have to take out parts of the bible related stuff in history.

 

18. Would be nice, but doesn't really exist, rofl. Sonlight is still quote US focused, because its a US program. I need something like a very hands-on, video, games, project, Australian version of Enki, which, of course, does not exist. Australian history stuff is mostly boring (not the actual history, but the resources available) and my beliefs are diverse, but tend to be more towards Beth Suttons ideals. My DH is christian, my mum is atheist, my step-father is catholic, my biological father is CoE. So I need a program that is more universal and accepting that all are individuals rather than one from a specific viewpoint telling about other viewpoints.

 

19. For the reasons I listed for 18.

 

24. I do, I want a program that focuses on my individual childs needs, wants, learning styles, and interests.

 

25. I sort of sit on both sides of the fence on this one. Let's leave it at I do, but I don't

 

27. I am sick of companies changing from something that works, to some crazy new thing, or constantly changing stuff so I get confused on whether I want the old or the new version. If they want to do that,especially places like Sonlight, they have a forum filled with people (or they did, I'm not sure now) that they could easily add Polls, surveys etc on what people who are *current* customers (and not new, unknowing customers that come and go) think about changes they would like to make. If you are going to sell a product, the customers are effectively your bosses. The customer is always right and all that. We are not children who "don't know what we need" we know, and we are not amused by thinking you know what is best and ruining a perfectly good program (okay, this is more a generalized thing to every curricula supplier, but anyhoo).

 

I am also disgruntled over trying to find out reviews on companies, and you can't trust any reviews, because the people could be talking about a totally different product and not knowing it (for instance, their are 4 different "kinds" of calvert. People ask for reviews on this, but no-one ever mentions this tidbit, or which particular kind they are nay-saying). So people could be hating one particular kind of Calvert, and those are all the negatives, whereas most of the positives come from another kind.

 

For me, the number one reason with sonlight for us stopping it was the jumping around in books, this was 2? years ago. Now, I actually re-looked at their site yesterday, as I got my catalog and they made everything look really good. Whilst I like half of the book selections, and like the new core tips, looking at the program, to me its just boring. Takes some okay books, some cool little activities, then makes everything boring somehow :p lol

[Mom0012]

I've used SL for 8 years and loved it. I have 2 more cores I plan to use (which I've already bought), and then I will probably use the literature in Core 400. The other high school cores have never appealed to me.

 

I know last year people were upset because SL incorporated bible and the LA into their main program. That made the guide significantly more expensive and most people do not use their LA, so they don't want to pay for it. I can't blame them there. On the other hand, I remember people being upset years ago when SL separated the bible portion from the main program. Then they weren't considered Christian enough. I believe most of the negative feelings come from their poor business and customer relations problems rather than the program itself.

 

I know there is a big debate going on right now about the notes on slavery in one of the high school cores. I don't care to enter that debate, but I will say it will have zero impact on my using SL. Those comments are in the notes to the IG only, and I simply don't use them. I use SL for their great book selection and for the time it gives me with my kids and the discussions it leads to.

 

SL is very expensive if you buy a full package, but I have bought every core I've used so far at curriculum sales for a fraction of the price. It doesn't have to cost $800 and if you spend $200 or so to buy it used, most of your cost is for all the great books.

[Laura Corin]

I used Sonlight (I never bought a full core, but bought a lot of materials from them). I liked a lot of their book and curriculum choices; I was not impressed by their Language Arts curriculum.

 

I was irritated when I was asked to pay to use most of their forums because I had not bought a full core from them, despite my having spent the equivalent amount of money on various materials. Then John stated that Jane Austen was a Victorian author in two succeeding catalogues despite my pointing out that she wasn't after the first (okay, this wasn't that serious as a motivation).

 

Then I received a letter from Sarita about the missionary activities that they supported in India that was so extreme in its vilification of other faiths that I asked them to stop communicating with me.

 

Laura

[LucyStoner]

Then John stated that Jane Austen was a Victorian author in two succeeding catalogues despite my pointing out that she wasn't after the first (okay, this wasn't that serious as a motivation).

 

 

Well, now. I dunno. In my book, anyone who messes up their Jane Austen is just messed up period. :lol:

[Laura Corin]

Well, now. I dunno. In my book, anyone who messes up their Jane Austen is just messed up period. :lol:

 

 

I know. He just didn't seem to understand why it mattered. Even when I pointed out that she died in the reign of that obscure monarch George III and that there were two succeeding monarchs after that before Victoria became queen, he didn't seem to think it was important. Which is odd in an educator.

 

Laura

[Butter]

We used Sonight for 4 years. Well, 3 1/2. When I finally admitted to myself it *wasn't* working we switched mid-year. The biggest reason I do not like it is because after the fact I discovered just how shallow it really is (never mind they claim otherwise - not in my family!). My kids learned how to barely do anything to squeak by. They learned so very little during those years. I love the whole concept, but it's just not what works in our house.

 

And from the reasons not to buy, 3 actually works best for my kids, 5 could be a reason potentially, 6 is a reason they list that cracks me up because we are so not their "target" audience and they are downright hostile to our religious beliefs on occasion, 11 is an odd one - Sonlight certainly seems to like sad books - but more than that the books with God-mentions for the sake of God-mentions got old - I mean books that pretty much spelled out the moral when it wasn't necessary just to make sure it was jammed down your throat, 19 I discovered is important to our family after all, and 27, well, the changes constantly did get old.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

The do not have the best business sense and they do not know how to treat their costumers. The cores are getting dumbed down. Books that have added to the core and time period have been replaced with junk books. Some of the choices they have made recently have been eye raising.

 

I am using SL this year and will use core E next year (purchased soon before they screw it up any more). I am not using them as a whole but more as book buys. Not sure how much of the SL notes I will use, somehow I do not feel like they mean much now that SL has tainted themselves with whiplash like changes from one stance to the next. This is definitely NOT the SL I bought into years ago and from what I see and hear the SL in years to come will certainly NOT be a company I will do business with. If I do happen to use Sl in the future, it will be from used IG's from the years I felt the company had the right ideas and the books will be purchased from other sources.

[*Lulu*]

 

 

The book that depicted men using dinosaurs like oxen, (think an illustration that looked like it belonged in Dinotopia), and the Window On The World book cinched it for me.

 

[Momof2littles]

 

 

The book that depicted men using dinosaurs like oxen, (think an illustration that looked like it belonged in Dinotopia), and the Window On The World book cinched it for me.

You're kidding, right? A book showing men using dinosaurs like oxen!?! LOL! That's too funny!

 

My two year might really like that picture! Haha!

[Ameena]

The book that depicted men using dinosaurs like oxen, (think an illustration that looked like it belonged in Dinotopia), and the Window On The World book cinched it for me.

 

 

 

What book is that? I do use SL, but with a LOT of tweaks

[Mommy22alyns]

I tried Sonlight for Sylvia's K year and Rebecca's 2nd. Sylvia got P 4/5 and Rebecca did Core 1 ( B ). There's a lot I didn't like simply from that experience.

 

It seemed light and insubstantial. I've heard it described as "rich" and "full" and even seen discussions about spreading out a core! I just don't see how that would be nearly enough.

The LA was unbelievably awful - probably THE worst HS thing I've ever tried.

They used CHOW for the spine and it bored Rebecca to tears.

She didn't learn much at all - she still remembers only "the boring book" from SL and retains more from her K-1st grade years with SOTW.

No activities. I learned the hard way that the girls need and love them.

For all of their catalogue insistence that you can combine kids, it really doesn't work that way.

 

 

Now, I'm glad I left when I did. I wasn't happy about them sticking the LA in with the cores. The THUMB thing seems so offensive to me. I've heard they're treating their forum members badly. Blinding hypocrisy. And then Holzmann and the slavery thing.

[*Lulu*]

 

 

 

What book is that? I do use SL, but with a LOT of tweaks

 

 

Dinosaurs Unleashed

[albeto]

The book that depicted men using dinosaurs like oxen, (think an illustration that looked like it belonged in Dinotopia), and the Window On The World book cinched it for me.

 

 

Haha, I forgot about that. When my box came, a book with a picture of a happy, Caucasian cave-man family (Mom, Pop, Brother, Sister) feeding the pet baby brontosaurus an apple was right on top. I had to throw that away before my husband saw it and wondered why I'd use an educational curriculum that included Flintstones theology in their science program!

[Ameena]

Dinosaurs Unleashed

 

Thanks! That's the last book we needed for next year, but I was already iffy on it. Hadn't been able to find a copy to look at locally & was about to order it!

 

Glad I asked - we'll substitute another Dino book instead.

[Professormom]

Wow, this is a thread fraught with frustration. You maybe more frustrated by the time you get o the end of this because it is Loooooong!!

 

I am going to throw in my two cents, but with the understanding that I am simply trying to contribute to the conversation and not to draw fire. I love these boards and the people who use them, but sometimes the venting gets inappropriate to the topic. I'm just saying:-)

 

So, with that being said...

 

I want to jump in as someone who has used a lot of Sonlight and many other programs, not only at home but in other environments. I have watched this drama over the last few years, and there are valid points floating around with lots of personal stuff. Of course it is going to be hard to separate the two. One of the reasons that we homeschool is that it gives us choices. So important! But sometimes opinions can come across as a little too opinionated, if YKWIM. And, the fact that we write it all on a forum makes understanding that much harder because we don't get to see the people on the other end of the conversation.

 

My personal observation is that people who use Sonlight tend to be drawn to some of the softer, personal stuff of life, not simply hard-core academics. They want to see development in the heart of the child and see Sonlight as a conduit for that. However, it also means that they take Sonlight's actions more personally than say, the average user of a Holt Science program.

 

One thing Sonlight did very well from the beginning is to draw people into a family-like atmosphere. Again, for some, that was a big draw. But, with that, I don't think the company necessarily thought through what a partial rebranding would do. I don't think that the company realized that people would feel like they were being betrayed or marginalized. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

I also think that people who related to Sonlight more under a John-style (defined as a little more left-brained, masculine thinker, for lack of a better way to describe it) are having a hard time relating to things Sarita-style (maybe more emotion-driven, etc.). I know that has been a jump for me. And the folks on the WTM boards often identify more with SWB than a Sarita. I know I do! (ducking the daggers now, I am just generalizing here to make a point...;-)

 

But for those reading this to try to see whether Sonlight will be a fit for them as a program...

 

I still think Sonlight is really wonderful, especially in the younger grades. It is a lovely time with younger children! Do I love every book... no. Some of the missionary stuff is not age-appropriate in my view. I pull those. But I do like most of them. It is also one of only a few full-service' or boxed curricula that help newer homeschoolers to see homeschooling as a different paradigm. The time in the earlier grades spent reading TOGETHER is invaluable. Do we need Sonlight to do that? Nope. But, we do if we want the whole she-bang in a box with a schedule, etc. that is what Sonlight provides. That is the customer they are serving.

 

That being said. I think it is light in the older years. The questions are not critical thinking questions. The reading, even interspersing lighter reading for a break, is not at what I consider a grade-appropriate level. I think the spines (SOTW) should be used in the lower cores, not the older ones. However, I have kids that would read War and Peace if I let them. I know a lot of people on this board have academically gifted children. Not everyone fits that description. Just like there are people who didn't choose to homeschool for religious reasons, there are many who don't do it for advanced academics either. Again, their audience may not be those who ascribe to the WTM lifestyle, lol.

 

I don't love the LA, but I have walked through it enough to know that it does have a big picture in mind and that it is very hard to see that by looking at one year (which is unfortunate). Students may not become Thoreau, but they will be able to communicate effectively in their jobs.

 

I don't think it was their best idea to build in the Bible and the LA. Especially since they finally separated the History and Lit of the olders cores, I think they would have done better being consistent with allowing more of an a la carte approach. The beliefs of the company are going to be seen here and there throughout the curriculum, but Bible is a very doctrinally specific subject to teach for many people. Bundling it, unfortunately, was a sure-fire way to draw fire from anyone whose views don't lineup exactly with theirs. (I.e, lots of people on the WTM boards:-)

 

To that point, Sonlight as a company is very evangelical. I have never seen them try to get anyone to think otherwise. This may be a pro or a con depending on your beliefs. As far as the slavery thing, my take is that John was providing another (very small) piece of historical perspective. Our culture is VERY sensitive to issues of social justice... As well it should be. But we also live in a world of soundbites and vernacular that is very reliant on political-correctness. This can cloud any discussion in the little nuances or deviations that exist in history. From what I could tell from things I have read from John over the years, his mind works in such a way that he likes to discuss some of those deviations just because it provides more information or a different way of thinking. I took what he wrote in light of the intention I think he had with it. But, I don't recall seeing anything that idolizes slavery in the Sonlight materials. On the contrary, the Sonlight materials we have gone through leave my kids knowing that anyone who is trampled on, subjugated, humiliated or tortured as less than was badly wronged.

 

The reason that I am contributing to this thread is because I see a lot of 'it's personal' either to someone's religious beliefs or what they think of the company's overall strategic direction. I want to be clear that I see all of those concerns as completely valid. But, if someone is coming to this thread, it is likely that they are curious as to why they should or shouldn't choose Sonlight from an academic perspective. That is what I wanted to bring to the table with my comments.

 

And if you haven't fallen asleep yet, or run screaming from the room... That's all folks! :-)

[TraceyS/FL]

That was a great post Heather - I did read it all too! :D

 

I do not fit the evangelical Christian mold, hence my issues from a faith aspect. I'm also in a place of transition with my faith and not comfortable sharing that publicly at the moment. It is what it is, and that is about all I will say about it right now.

 

I can say that my oldest DD was barely "liking to read" when i tried Core 6 with her, it was just too much for her to ponder doing. I did enjoy most of the books that I bought for her to read though, and they are sitting here with the IG to maybe do with the middle one at some point. For her, with her special needs, Core 6 would be her high school target history. Honestly, I should keep the books and see if anyone wants to buy the IG, because I probably won't use it.

 

The great thing is we have lots of choices today.... well, not so much in the secular-lit based history programs. But I have faith someone will have the time and knowledge to write that too! Overall, my attempt at SL left us with some keepers on the shelf, and the lesson of timing with the oldest. Today she'd be into a Lit Based curriculum.... except she is forced to Florida Virtual. But I think TOG would be a good fit for her if I could get it secular enough for her current views.

[texasmama]

It's pretty difficult to offend me. I just buy what works for us and tend to not concentrate on a curriculum provider's belief system. I think I am finally bothered enough to stop using SL, though. We have been SL users (history and literature only) for five years. This year's IG was purchased used, and I purchased used books from many sources to fill it in. Same with next year's IG/Core. We have enjoyed the books SL chooses, and I have appreciated the convenience of the schedule. I never used the discussion questions in the IG. After next year, we are leaving SL. I always knew we would leave before high school, as this is not SL's strong suit. But I think that even if it was their strong suit, I have reached maximum capacity with the other stuff. So there ya go. That is my contribution. :)

[Professormom]

Thanks Tracey!

 

I do totally get the faith struggle thing. I think a lot of us go through that now in our (ahem) late 30s and 40s, simply because we are trying to teach our kids and many of us coming from the 70s and 80s didn't learn our faith with any depth. (I am speaking for myself here, don't know your story, but I hope you come to a place of peace:-)

 

Keeping the books and using them as she gets older is an awesome idea... It gives you the pieces you want without the stuff you don't.

 

TOG is a great program, but it is definitely not secular. You would probably be revising ALOT to make that work, IF you need the program's hand-holding, especially the notes. I noticed your sig and am guessing you may not have the time to 'create-your-own', but if you just want something to jump off of that will keep you moving through time, then TOG could be a good fit.

 

Happy planning! Heather

[TraceyS/FL]

Time??? Why I have a TON of time right now! LOL!!! (I notice it is missing the, "Mom is a full-time college student in her last quarter" statement. :p )

 

I am probably at peace with my faith for the first time in my life, it is great - or will be once the journey gets me where I want to be. But yup, it took until I was 40 for me to figure it all out!

 

I keep going to the TOG website, and thinking I can make this work for us.... then the current reality hits in and I delete everything I have downloaded. But even now I think it would be a great UG fit for my middle DD, but then there is that reality. Talk to me again after June 27 :D

 

Now I have taken more "Mommy time" today than I was supposed to, call it a mental health day - whatever it was it was very much needed, but it is time to figure out what is due tomorrow at midnight and get busy.

[merylvdm]

I bought all my cores a while ago and haven't bought anything for a while, and realize I have missed a lot of drama. What I can say is that I chose Sonlight and chose to use it all through high school because of the academic level ie because it wasn't light. From previous remarks I assume the newer versions have dropped some of what was in the old ones because my kids finished high school having covered so much more literature and history than the local school kids and their homeschool friends. Mine all wrote AP exams without doing anything extra apart from using an AP review book and got 5s for US History, English Language and my daughter got a 5 on English Lit after doing the Brit Lit course.

My older 2 coped very well in humanities at college - my daughter got into the Honor Program which was literature / philosophy / history and graduated with a perfect 4.0. My son is at Stanford and has achieved As in a number of his Humanities classes. I did not supplement Sonlight's literature at all - I did make my kids read the notes and write the papers and it really worked for them.

I did use different Bible a lot of the time and have never used the new LA for the younger cores. I also supplement in Geography, Economics, Computers, Art etc for the younger cores and add electives for the high schoolers.

I have no idea if I would feel differently if I were to buy the newer cores - I just know that the ones I bought 5 years + ago were great.

[Butter]

 

 

To be fair this is not a curricula issue but rather your personal experience. Because my eldest son who used SL didnt find it shallow and he learned a whole lot. Even my tag alongs did, tho I don't use SL with them bc they do not learn the same way oldest son did.

 

Yes, it is my personal experience (as is yours), but how can it not be a curriculum issue when I did it as written (didnt tweak), asked all the questions, etc?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

To be fair this is not a curricula issue but rather your personal experience. Because my eldest son who used SL didnt find it shallow and he learned a whole lot. Even my tag alongs did, tho I don't use SL with them bc they do not learn the same way oldest son did.

 

 

I agree. Some people learn best by reading, and have the kind of mind that makes connections, synthesizes, analyzes, and draws conclusions without much outside help. To me, that's a Sonlight kid. I have one. I would have been that student, myself.

 

For another child of mine, "just" reading all day meant dumping information as fast as he took it in. I added WTM and CM study methods to SL for him, to force him to slow down and pay attention.

 

Curriculum only teaches a very small percentage of kids---the true auto-didacts. We have to be the teacher for most children, and curricula are our tools. If they're not learning, it might be because we're not teaching.

[Erin]

I can't for the life of me see what the big deal is. But then I can't really understand how someone can just use an entire curriculum, straight out of the box, anyway...

 

 

We use the literature, the history and the scheduling and that's about it. We've been quite happy.

 

As others have mentioned, the LA is weak, so we just never used it. We rarely use the "notes" sections as their father and I are history nerds so we come up with good discussion points without needing to look in a book. The mapping exercises, timeline, vocabulary, etc. are the reasons I need the IGs.

It IS expensive, consequently, the only thing I've ever bought new were the IGs. Used books can be found quite inexpensively, bundled by Core even, on eBay and homeschool classified sites, as well as at the library.

I can't even imagine using the recommended science curricula because of course they're going to have a Creationist bent and we tend to think science should be a little more heavy on the science part than that...

[Chanley]

Well, now. I dunno. In my book, anyone who messes up their Jane Austen is just messed up period. :lol:

 

 

Well, we were told not to expect impeccability from this curriculum provider.

[shawthorne44]

With both LA and Bible mandatory, I suspect a lot of people that would have happily bought a core are going to buy just a few things from them, and buy the rest of the real core books themselves. I think I will be one of them.

 

I had expected to be buying our second core right now. Months ago, I'd looked at the options and I'd decided I would be buying this core from them. The $3.99 shipping per book makes it hard to save much money buying it all yourself. But, now, there seems to be enough stuff in there that we are totally and completely not interested in, the price is really easy to beat.

[Orthodox6]

Interesting read, this thread is!

 

I always found the LA downright peculiar (elementary school through grade 6). Ignored it.

We are not Protestants, so all of the religious content was useless to us (including their Bible study).

The science components did not appeal.

Their high school science texts are disliked by my children as well as by me.

 

The worst experience was Core 300. We teach our children about the "seamy side of the world" in our own way, and definitely do not raise them under a manhole cover for safety. This does not, however, require wallowing in book after book with content we do not wish to study in depth. I tossed aside the majority of the books from that Core and improvised the years' assignments best as I could with the remainder.

 

As we always have used curricula from a variety of suppliers, I'm not knowledgeable about shifts in viewpoint or in preferred target market with Sonlight. What, for example, is the "slavery issue" referenced in this thread?

 

The best benefit I have had from Sonlight is the catalogue. From it I have purchased numerous good reading books for our home library, including some that I enjoyed during my own childhood.

[Guest Celticdragon]

This was our personal experience...

 

I should first admit that I do not homeschool for religious reasons (though I am religious). I educate my children for academic reasons! My kids attend church and religion is a way of life no matter what we are doing. We have a quiet meditation time every day and the kids can read their bibles then.

 

I loved the concept of a CM style of learning - and Sonlight seemed like a wonderful curriculum. We previously had experience with k12, piecing together and creating our own curriculum + FIAR. We had been homeschooling for a few years at the point of using Sonlight.

 

My kids are quite eclectic when it comes to education styles. Hands on activities, visuals, worksheets, reading, field trips, and so much more!

 

My younger kids tried Sonlight for K/1 grade. My kids didn't know how to read, so I was reading a lot of it aloud to them. They did not always enjoy this - especially the longer we did it. My kids do NOT mind me reading, but when that was most of all that we did - that got old for them. Especially for my energetic son. They also did not like the skipping all around with the books - they wanted to finish a story - not read a little of this, then a little of that, and now a little of this... I do understand why its done this way though - but my kids could of cared less, they simply didnt like it being done that way. I loved some of the science and social studies books - but my kids were not as impressed (I think because they were bored in general with the curriculum).

 

My youngest LOVES worksheets (especially colorful ones) and so I had to find some online to print out (related to the lessons), create my own, and had a few that I bought. My younger kids did NOT want to do Sonlight the following year. I also had to find projects to add to it, because both of the kids love when activities bring the ideas alive. I was used to creating our own lessons, so this was no big deal for me at all. However, I was spending more than I ever had before to homeschool.

 

In my state, a homeschooler does not have to report to the state before the age of 8yrs old. So neither of my younger kids had to submit a portfolio or be evaluated.

 

My oldest child used the Easter Hemisphere - I think it's equivalent to fifth grade level. My daughter finished the entire curriculum in a few short months.

 

In my state, I have high regulations. I had to hand in a reading list, sample work, have an evaluator look over our portfolio and interview my daughter. The evaluator kindly asked us not to use the curriculum again. She felt it was too weak and was concerned about the school districts feedback - sure enough, I got a letter about their concerns as well. I assured them I would not use it again. Thankfully, I HAD supplemented the curriculum. Also, about the world cultures - it seemed more about religion and missionaries in other countries - and less about actual cultural studies. I know that one of the issues from the evaluator and the school, was that there was no real evidence of "world cultures / social studies" in their opinion. They felt that there were too many religious books on the reading list and not enough substantial materials.

 

All of my kids were so disenchanted after that school year, so much so that they ALL asked to go back to public school. They had always loved homeschooling prior to sonlight.

 

I will say that they did have SOME good books. However most of them I could easily get at the library. Some of the science books were wonderful - as were the younger grades social study books. However, I could have bought those used at my local used homeschooling store - or whatever. There was not much that I was impressed with at all!!! It was VERY expensive for how disappointed we all ended up being.

 

I want my children to be prepared for college and a career. I want them to be knowledgable on a wide array of topics when speaking and dealing with all kinds of people.