Question about mandatory parent volunteering for Scouts and other groups

[shawthorne44]

On the face of it, the idea of combining a buy-out of volunteering with a scholarship would work.  But it would probably get ugly fast. But, it would seem that "OK, you don't have the money to participate.  You can volunteer extra to cover for those that want to buy-out of volunteering."  

On the face of it, the idea of combining a buy-out of volunteering with a scholarship would work.  But it would probably get ugly fast. But, it would seem that "OK, you don't have the money to participate.  You can volunteer extra to cover for those that want to buy-out of volunteering."  

 

 

For the groups I'm involved with, there may be a buyout, but we really don't want your money.  We need workers.  The buyout is just a strong encouragement to get people to work.

 

Take Margaret in CO's case above -- the scouts needed someone to schlep heavy drinks to a campsite (and probably a zillion other tasks).  If everyone bought out their volunteering shifts, who are you really going to be able to hire to do the work?  Even if you could find someone at minimum wage, that's going to add up fast.

[Mrs Mungo]

I guess I don't see it as tit-for-tat. Someone else runs scouts. I run hockey. If my kid is in scouts but your kid isn't in hockey, that's ok, because your kid may be in the drama troupe that someone else runs while their kids benefit from scouts.

We have been involved in scouting for many years. It requires a lot of effort to put on big camping trips and things like that. Our scouting troops have always had mandatory volunteering. It creates a sense of ownership that encourages families to participate beyond the basic meetings.

 

My kids have *never* participated in a *volunteer-run* program, if dh and I can't do *something* to help. If we don't have time to help, then it isn't something we have time to commit to as a family. So, we do a mix of paid and volunteer activities.

 

If you don't want to volunteer, then don't sign up for groups that require a volunteer commitment.

 

And as we have discussed on another volunteering thread here, I'm not driving other people's kids to organized activities unless I have some sort of liability coverage (as distinct from driving my kids' friends around for purely social purposes).

Most scouting troops have insurance that covers drivers.

[Erin]

And honestly, I don't see sending along a package of Kool-Aid as volunteering. .

 

lol  I don't either. 

If someone asks me to "bring KoolAid," I'll assume they want the sugar, water, and as many pitchers as it'll take for the kids, then brought to the meeting.   ;)

[Haiku]

If you don't want to volunteer, then don't sign up for groups that require a volunteer commitment.

 

And I mentioned that I wouldn't. But my kids are involved in lots of volunteer-run organizations that don't require volunteering, so I don't honestly think it's necessary or practical to say that parents should always volunteer for every activity their child participates in. 

[Mrs Mungo]

And I mentioned that I wouldn't. But my kids are involved in lots of volunteer-run organizations that don't require volunteering, so I don't honestly think it's necessary or practical to say that parents should always volunteer for every activity their child participates in.

I didn't mean to imply that one must always volunteer. I meant to say that I don't find it even a tiny but unreasonable for organizations that need a lot of volunteers to have a mandatory volunteer requirement. Not all types of organizations need tons of volunteers.

[Murphy101]

The thing to remember with "mandateering" is that it's NOT a huge obligation like a leader is.  It's just doing your share.  

Bring treats, organize a single campout, give a demo on how you made your ______, drive kids to a specific meet, etc.  

 

I agree with PPs--EVERYONE has a full schedule.  Saying that I don't have the time (while suggesting that somehow others do) is just saying that my time is actually more valuable than everyone else's.  That's not fair.

 

 

 

No it isn't. It's saying that I have chosen to prioritize my time differently than them. They can do whatever they want with their time. I don't begrudge them that at all. It is completely fair. You want to do it? Yay! Go do it! You don't? That's fine too bc someone else probably will. Or not. It's all good.

 

Additionally, I don't think being busy is a virtue. I'm sick to death of busy. If you think you are too busy, then stop being so busy. It's that simple. There's no virtue in it. And someone else refusing to jump on the rat race bandwagon isn't telling you anything other than they don't want to do what you do. If you do want to do it, then why complain about it?

 

We have been involved in scouting for many years. It requires a lot of effort to put on big camping trips and things like that. Our scouting troops have always had mandatory volunteering. It creates a sense of ownership that encourages families to participate beyond the basic meetings.

My kids have *never* participated in a *volunteer-run* program, if dh and I can't do *something* to help. If we don't have time to help, then it isn't something we have time to commit to as a family. So, we do a mix of paid and volunteer activities.

If you don't want to volunteer, then don't sign up for groups that require a volunteer commitment.

 

Most scouting troops have insurance that covers drivers.

And I wouldn't sign up. No problem. Frankly I have zero desire to have ownership of my kids extracurriculiar activities. It is supposed to be THEIR activity. Not mine. Not my entire family's. And that attitude that it should be is why we don't sign up for a lot of things. I think the over involvement in kids school assignments has bled over into extracurriculars. My kids had a project due last weekend from an outside source. The leader of this activity sent me an email asking if I had their projects ready, giving suggestions and so forth and I LOLed and wrote back, "I have no idea what they have done. It's their assignment, not mine. See you at ____ event!" Several other mothers were swapping stories of helping their kids, nagging them and so forth and gluing things together at the last minute. I'm off by myself smiling in amused befuddlement bc that's just never going to happen in my house. If they ask me for help or want to brainstorm about it, both of which are common here, I'm all in for that. But no. This is their activity. Not mine. I'm happy to encourage and fund it as best I can. But it is theirs.

[Erin]

Additionally, I don't think being busy is a virtue. I'm sick to death of busy. If you think you are too busy, then stop being so busy. It's that simple. There's no virtue in it. And someone else refusing to jump on the rat race bandwagon isn't telling you anything other than they don't want to do what you do. If you do want to do it, then why complain about it?

 

 

And I wouldn't sign up. No problem. Frankly I have zero desire to have ownership of my kids extracurriculiar activities. 

 

I guess it has never occurred to me that bringing KoolAid to my kids' 4H meeting was jumping on the "rat race bandwagon."  lol  

But then again, I'm not really seeing where that gives me much of an ownership in their activities, either.   

[Reefgazer]

Actually, scouting is somewhat different from most other youth activities like choir or sports in that it is expected and necessary that a parent be involved in order for the scout to fully benefit from the program.  That is especially true in cub scouts, which is labor-intensive, very family oriented, and where the boys are too young to take ownership of major activities like camping.  Family involvement and parent leadership and setting the example are part of what makes scouting a learning and growing experience for the boys.  Presumably, someone who signs up wants those benefits for their child and understands that their involvement is necessary.  So for a scout parent to claim they don't want to be involved is like saying "I'm dumping my kid and don't really care if he benefits from the program or not".  In which case, why bother signing on?  For this reason, I actually think mandatory volunteer time ensures only committed parents who value the quality of the program will sign up, and that's something that will benefit all boys in the pack.  It makes the pack stronger and increases the chance that the pack will usher a good number of cubs into boy scouts and on to Eagle Scout (which is a real achievement that can bring a number of college scholarship offers, by the way).

 

No it isn't. It's saying that I have chosen to prioritize my time differently than them. They can do whatever they want with their time. I don't begrudge them that at all. It is completely fair. You want to do it? Yay! Go do it! You don't? That's fine too bc someone else probably will. Or not. It's all good.

Additionally, I don't think being busy is a virtue. I'm sick to death of busy. If you think you are too busy, then stop being so busy. It's that simple. There's no virtue in it. And someone else refusing to jump on the rat race bandwagon isn't telling you anything other than they don't want to do what you do. If you do want to do it, then why complain about it?


And I wouldn't sign up. No problem. Frankly I have zero desire to have ownership of my kids extracurriculiar activities. It is supposed to be THEIR activity. Not mine. Not my entire family's. And that attitude that it should be is why we don't sign up for a lot of things. I think the over involvement in kids school assignments has bled over into extracurriculars. My kids had a project due last weekend from an outside source. The leader of this activity sent me an email asking if I had their projects ready, giving suggestions and so forth and I LOLed and wrote back, "I have no idea what they have done. It's their assignment, not mine. See you at ____ event!" Several other mothers were swapping stories of helping their kids, nagging them and so forth and gluing things together at the last minute. I'm off by myself smiling in amused befuddlement bc that's just never going to happen in my house. If they ask me for help or want to brainstorm about it, both of which are common here, I'm all in for that. But no. This is their activity. Not mine. I'm happy to encourage and fund it as best I can. But it is theirs.

 

[8circles]

The thing to remember with "mandateering" is that it's NOT a huge obligation like a leader is. It's just doing your share.

Bring treats, organize a single campout, give a demo on how you made your ______, drive kids to a specific meet, etc.

 

I agree with PPs--EVERYONE has a full schedule. Saying that I don't have the time (while suggesting that somehow others do) is just saying that my time is actually more valuable than everyone else's. That's not fair.

I don't agree with this at all. First of all, I do volunteer for scouts (although very minimally), as does my husband. But when I don't, because I can't, it isn't saying anything about anyone else's time. And no, not everybody is just as busy as I am and some people are more busy. Goodness, there's been an entire thread about how we (those of us who say we're busy) can't be as busy as we think because other people have time to relax on the couch reading a book in the middle of the day. If someone has time for that then no, they aren't as busy as I am. Let them take on the big volunteer jobs if they want - I don't. And before it gets said - no - I don't believe that being busy is a virtue and I try my darnedest to un-busy our lives.

[Murphy101]

I guess it has never occurred to me that bringing KoolAid to my kids' 4H meeting was jumping on the "rat race bandwagon." lol

But then again, I'm not really seeing where that gives me much of an ownership in their activities, either.

 

I think the kool aid thing needs to be thrown out of the discussion. Several people, and I agree with them, have said donating kool aid is no big deal.

 

Bringing kool aid is not on par with doing a camp out, leading a session on a topic, or shuttle service.

 

I've never complained about bringing snack. Tho to be honest mentally I do bc the majority of the time I think having snacks and every dadblum thing is stupid and unnecessary, but whatever. I keep that to myself most of the time and just bring the cupcakes.

[Ellie]

 

I've never complained about bringing snack. Tho to be honest mentally I do bc the majority if the time I think having snacks and every dadblum thing is stupid and unnecessary, but whatever. I keep that to myself most of the time and just bring the cupcakes.

 

I didn't ask parents to bring snacks. We only met for about an hour, right after school. If we had snacks first, we didn't have time for our activities, because some of those children ate v.e.r.y.s.l.o.w.l.y. If we had snacks after, some of the children would ask about it every 5 minutes. So we just got in there, had our meeting (which the dc did enjoy BTW) and got out of there. :-)

[Erin]

Actually, it takes me a total of about 20 minutes to buy (we never have the stuff), mix, and deliver KoolAid.

It *also* takes me about 20 minutes to tell about some project I've done. :)

 

Though I agree. I dont see the need for a snack and am guessing it's more for the cultural aspect of eating with friends.

[Murphy101]

Actually, it takes me a total of about 20 minutes to buy (we never have the stuff), mix, and deliver KoolAid.

It *also* takes me about 20 minutes to tell about some project I've done. :)

Though I agree. I dont see the need for a snack and am guessing it's more for the cultural aspect of eating with friends.

See now, I'm already at the store, so I buy the premade bottles and move on. I REALLY dislike teaching other people's kids anything. And I would likely take far longer than 20 minutes to prep, organize, and then actually give a presentation.

 

And then there is my other peeve. I've yet to have anyone ask me to do something and then not expect me to do it their way. Drives me nuts. Don't tell me to whatever I think best and then after I state my plans tell me I need to do x, y, and z. Happens every time. Either be specific so I know what I'm signing up for or let it go.

[Lolly]

I have done a complete turn around on this issue. I was the parent who spent loads of time doing the volunteer work when my kids were young. Dh was one of the specially trained volunteer workers. I made food. I stood on deck and worked multiple sessions in a row. I did any and everything that was or wasn't asked but needed doing. 15 years later...I am done. For the first time this summer, I am not volunteering to work. I don't drive to practices. I am not going to meets. I have other things on my schedule, but honestly just have no desire to make the time. I didn't even want to sign ds up to do this activity, but the coach needs him because boys his age are hard to come by. Coach asked him to continue. I am paying the fee. I am not attending the meets. This year, they also changed sign ups to where you have to volunteer. I simply checked the not attending any meets box for every meet instead. I told the coach ds would let him k now which meets he could attend, but that I would not be there. For the meet tonight, ds was scheduled to work. Coach begged him to find a way to make it. Ds rearranged his work schedule and is attending. I kind of see it as I am paying so that ds can work for the coach and help the team win. He is the needed commodity. The other parents can just get over the fact that I am not participating. Honestly, if the kid is old enough that they are taking responsibility for everything about their activity, you cannot expect the parental involvement as much. (I have seen this over time a whole lot.) If the parent is there, yes, they should be expected to help. But, if it is truly a child led and the parent is no where to be seen, not expecting the parent to work. 

 

The president of this group noticed the lack of meet sign up and asked me about it. I explained the situation and was told that this year the board decided to require a parent to work every meet their child was participating. I said I would be happy to help for the meets I attend. Then, I went home and checked the newly posted handbook. No such requirement was listed. Checked with coach because I was not goign to pay and just pull ds. Coach said to send him anyway he would handle it.

 

As an aside, the group we were with before instituted mandatory volunteering with a fine for not participating. I noticed that while more people did sign up for job positions, the resentment level for doing it went way up. The nasty attitude it gave the person in charge of volunteering made me not want to volunteer. My family went from happily working 9 work sessions in a weekend, to grudgingly working 3. The same was true for pretty much all the families who had been enjoying helping out. 

[shawthorne44]

Reading this thread has totally convinced me mandated parent involvement will be part of any troop I lead.  It was actually those that don't think they should have to volunteer that convinced me.  I think it is a fair assumption that posters on this forum are good, loving, involved, concerned parents.  So, if I want a troop with involved parents I think I will have to use the mandated parent involvement up-front.  

 

Does anyone know the Girl Scout rules on that?  

[Murphy101]

And that's fine if that's what you want to do. Be prepared many won't do it though, so you should have a policy in place for handling how to out kids whose parents don't actually volunteer.

 

For me, this is why we don't do scouts or competitive sports. Which stinks sometimes because a few of my kids are very out going and would love to do it, but *I* have absolutely ZERO desire to camp, run a troop, or get into sports. I flunked gym class in school bc I hated it. I don't want my entire family to have to get into scouts or a sport, but I'd cheer those kids on for sure tho in doing what they like.

 

This is also why I don't normally do outside activities for my kids until they are closer to age 10 or 12, because they are more accountable for it themselves at that age.

[Soror]

I volunteer primarily to provide my kids with fun/educational activities. I'm not there to just provide free babysitting to other people, I'm just not up for that. Of the groups I've been involved in the parents that don't help aren't the ones that can't for whatever reason, they just think that if they can get other people to do it for them. I've told them plenty of times their time isn't any more valuable than mine and we will be requiring volunteering and offering incentives for those that do. If it isn't worth it for them then they can opt out. I do it for my kids not because I love doing such things. Perhaps in a future I would be up to offering myself and time for free, as I know there is a need for it, but at this point I cannot when the kid's own parents don't see any value in it. I am however willing to do it for my own kids and love the experiences that they get to have but I know that these things take a lot of time, energy, money and people to pull off.

[felicity]

Reading this thread has totally convinced me mandated parent involvement will be part of any troop I lead. It was actually those that don't think they should have to volunteer that convinced me. I think it is a fair assumption that posters on this forum are good, loving, involved, concerned parents. So, if I want a troop with involved parents I think I will have to use the mandated parent involvement up-front.

 

Does anyone know the Girl Scout rules on that?

 

 

Sorry, I hit the wrong key.

 

I have been the co-leader of my dd's GS troop for four years now. We have nine girls and they have lovely parents, for the most part. But out of the nine, three volunteer for anything. One has been the nut mom for years, another has been the cookie mom, and another volunteers for weekend things when she's not working. Up until last year that was fine, but our cookie mom is burned out and we have no one else that will step up to take the position. Add to that the fact that they girls just bridged to Juniors and we're planning some really cool activities and trips, and we need help from the non-volunteering parents.

 

So, I'm coming up with a list of nine things that need to be done--anything from cookie mom to field trip coordinator. We are asking that each family take one job. I'm planning to let them know the time commitment and what is being asked up front. We have working parents, in-school parents, and at-home parents, so there will be a range. Cookie mom will still be the heaviest commitment, and that's still only a few months of the year.

 

I don't know what the official rules are, I'm just telling you about our troop. Drop off and go worked fine for a few years but now we need help and this way instead of someone volunteering to bring a snack we don't need, we're being up front about what we do need. But I wish we had started expecting the help from the beginning. Then maybe I wouldn't have to be quite so serious about it. Hth.

[DawnM]

I think the problem is that people get burnt out.

 

It is typical for 20% of the people to do 80% of the work in any volunteer situation.  This includes church, scouts, whatever.

 

I am very thankful for the groups I am in.  Church does not require any volunteering, but we do it anyway.  Scouts DOES require parent involvement and it really helps us to not have burn out situations.

 

Dawn

 

I have done a complete turn around on this issue. I was the parent who spent loads of time doing the volunteer work when my kids were young. Dh was one of the specially trained volunteer workers. I made food. I stood on deck and worked multiple sessions in a row. I did any and everything that was or wasn't asked but needed doing. 15 years later...I am done. For the first time this summer, I am not volunteering to work. I don't drive to practices. I am not going to meets. I have other things on my schedule, but honestly just have no desire to make the time. I didn't even want to sign ds up to do this activity, but the coach needs him because boys his age are hard to come by. Coach asked him to continue. I am paying the fee. I am not attending the meets. This year, they also changed sign ups to where you have to volunteer. I simply checked the not attending any meets box for every meet instead. I told the coach ds would let him k now which meets he could attend, but that I would not be there. For the meet tonight, ds was scheduled to work. Coach begged him to find a way to make it. Ds rearranged his work schedule and is attending. I kind of see it as I am paying so that ds can work for the coach and help the team win. He is the needed commodity. The other parents can just get over the fact that I am not participating. Honestly, if the kid is old enough that they are taking responsibility for everything about their activity, you cannot expect the parental involvement as much. (I have seen this over time a whole lot.) If the parent is there, yes, they should be expected to help. But, if it is truly a child led and the parent is no where to be seen, not expecting the parent to work. 

 

The president of this group noticed the lack of meet sign up and asked me about it. I explained the situation and was told that this year the board decided to require a parent to work every meet their child was participating. I said I would be happy to help for the meets I attend. Then, I went home and checked the newly posted handbook. No such requirement was listed. Checked with coach because I was not goign to pay and just pull ds. Coach said to send him anyway he would handle it.

 

As an aside, the group we were with before instituted mandatory volunteering with a fine for not participating. I noticed that while more people did sign up for job positions, the resentment level for doing it went way up. The nasty attitude it gave the person in charge of volunteering made me not want to volunteer. My family went from happily working 9 work sessions in a weekend, to grudgingly working 3. The same was true for pretty much all the families who had been enjoying helping out. 

 

[In2why]

I volunteer to help in some role for every activity my kids do.  But I will not fundraise.  I will write the organization a check but I am not hitting my family and friends up for over priced junk. 

[DawnM]

We are the same way.

 

We can sell $900 worth of junk (between 3 boys) or donate $300 for all 3.  That comes to $25 per month.  I set up an ING account.  :laugh:   

 

They are considering raising it to $400 per boy or $150 to donate.  That will be harder, but we can do it.  I can forgo a few cheeseburgers throughout the year.

 

Dawn

 

 

I volunteer to help in some role for every activity my kids do.  But I will not fundraise.  I will write the organization a check but I am not hitting my family and friends up for over priced junk. 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I think well-planned, mandatory volunteers works best for everyone. People want specific jobs with lots of notice. They need clarity and to not be ambushed because someone threw something together mid-year with no notice. This often means you have leaders with the ability to plan out their year before the first meeting so that Suzie's parents are scheduled to run the cupcake decorating station on the 6th meeting before Suzie's registration is accepted. Mandatory jobs cuts down everyone's workload. Nobody wants to say "I'll help" and be told to run the Holiday Party. That's too much.

 

Back when I did scouts, we had a mandatory parent meeting with an organized checklist. Each parent had to:

 

Fill in registration form

Fill in emergency form

Write registration check

Sign up to assist at one meeting

Sign up to assist at one event

 

When that list was complete, their child was enrolled and welcome to attend the first meeting. That was all the help the leaders needed to keep the troop running without burning out. Nobody HAS the time. Everybody MAKES the time. If your real passion is to volunteer a gazillion hours with another activity, the minimal requirement in a well-organized group won't derail that other commitment. However, if a parent can't carve out 4 hours over the course of a year, the odds of them responding to email, sending in permission slips, or even getting heir child to and from meetings drop dramatically.

 

The leaders HAVE to be organized OR be willing to do everything themselves. You really have to pick one. The parents HAVE to have a little time for this commitment beyond dropping off and picking up or it's not a good fit for their family.

[Reefgazer]

I think this is true, and it has made me more selective in what we as a family take on.  Because when I started getting burnt out, it hit me that my kids are probably burned out also.  So if I am too tired and busy to volunteer, then they likely are also. So for the sake of all of our health, we have cut back on volunteer and extracurricular activities.

I think the problem is that people get burnt out.

 

It is typical for 20% of the people to do 80% of the work in any volunteer situation.  This includes church, scouts, whatever.

 

I am very thankful for the groups I am in.  Church does not require any volunteering, but we do it anyway.  Scouts DOES require parent involvement and it really helps us to not have burn out situations.

 

Dawn

 

[katilac]

  our cookie mom is burned out and we have no one else that will step up to take the position. 

 

So, I'm coming up with a list of nine things that need to be done--

 

Cookie mom will still be the heaviest commitment, and that's still only a few months of the year.

 

 

Can cookie mom be a 2- or even 3-person job? Getting very, very specific as to how it's divided up? Can there be a built-in rotation, so no one is cookie mom several years in a row? 

 

The list is a great idea, but I would do my best to have more than 9 things on it, because people like to choose and hate getting 'leftovers,' lol. 

[rmtzc2009]

This is a tough one.  My husband has always tried to be active in what the kids do but sometimes the needs placed on one volunteer are just to much.  I don't think it's the case that if a parent can't volunteer (whatever the reason doesn't matter) that a child should be excluded from participation.  I think it would be better to limit activity size or troop size.

 

Example:

 

Scouts we have an exciting trip planned to XYC coming up July 15th.  Currently, we have 3 adult volunteers and can only accept the first 12 scouts registered.  We want everyone to have a fun and safe event!  If we get additional parent volunteers we will open up registration to allow for me scouts to attend.

 

 

[Tap]

(snip)

 

Back when I did scouts, we had a mandatory parent meeting with an organized checklist. Each parent had to:

 

Fill in registration form

Fill in emergency form

Write registration check

Sign up to assist at one meeting

Sign up to assist at one event

 

When that list was complete, their child was enrolled and welcome to attend the first meeting.  

 

(snip)

 

 

This is what I like to see.  

 

 

 

 

I also don't mind seeing something like the following.  We value our volunteers and our volunteers personal time, due to this, the fee structure is as follows per child:

 

Option A: Full cost of staff to provide services is $1000 per child.  You can pay the full amount and have zero volunteer obligations.

Option B: Pay $500 and volunteer in 2 available  Assistant time slots on list (list broke down in two sections of first half of year and second half)

Option C: Pay $100 and volunteer in 1 available leadership role on list.

 

We do not expect money to  be left in the fund at the end of the year, but any funds in excess of $10 per family will be redistributed proportionate to the fees paid, amounts less than $10 will be donated to the following years fund.  All fees must be paid in full before first day of participation. 

 

 

No matter how volunteers are structured:

 

All volunteer hours should be logged and posted public ally.  Something like

 

Smith family 0 hours (thank you for contributing financially)

Jones 3 hours (assisting coach)

Hernandez  20+ hours (lead coach)

 

Leave off anyone who has not fulfilled obligations without mention. It isn't about shaming people, just thanking those who have contributed.

 

 

 

 

I do not like Leadership paying zero fees, I think it changes their perspective away from being a parent first, then leader.

I do not like seeing Leaderships paying zero for things like hotel rooms, food or other common fees associated with travel because it feeds corruption/dishonesty/embezzlement.  They should pay their portion just like everyone else.  Dishonest people seem to take advantage of situations where fees are waved, and start to find other ways to be compensated when they feel their personal contributions are worth more than other parents.  Every volunteer is paid the same, from the person who plans something from scratch, to the person mixing the kool aid.  Everyone is equal, time is the commodity.  I don't care if it is and Emergency Room doctor coaching the team, or a retired grandma altering cheer skirts, or a teenager washing dishes after an event, they are equal. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Murphy101]

I do not like Leadership paying zero fees, I think it changes their perspective away from being a parent first, then leader.

I do not like seeing Leaderships paying zero for things like hotel rooms, food or other common fees associated with travel because it feeds corruption/dishonesty/embezzlement. They should pay their portion just like everyone else. Dishonest people seem to take advantage of situations where fees are waved, and start to find other ways to be compensated when they feel their personal contributions are worth more than other parents. Every volunteer is paid the same, from the person who plans something from scratch, to the person mixing the kool aid. Everyone is equal, time is the commodity. I don't care if it is and Emergency Room doctor coaching the team, or a retired grandma altering cheer skirts, or a teenager washing dishes after an event, they are equal.

I whole heartedly agree with this. It doesn't seem fair to have it both ways. To say they want everyone to volunteer AND pay because we are supposed to do this together, but ____ people don't have to pay. That basicly turns them into employees of the activity, yes? (Granted poorly paid most of the time. :) ) And if so, then no, I'm not going to feel too bad about not volunteering.

 

In some troops (not ours I don't think, but some) all the freebies leaders get can really add up to a not small amount. Free uniforms, free trips, free equipment. In another troop a leader bought a lot of expensive camping items. Cast iron skillets and such. Then charged all the other parents $70 each for the camping trip to reimburse her. She informed them of this three days before the trip! I would have pitched a fit and said we are staying home then, but apparently no one there wanted to hurt her feelings or upset their kids looking forward to the trip, so they all paid it. :/ Nuts. But there you go.

 

Also, I see times when it is not fairly done. In some cases from the outside, it sure looks like those who are buddies are free and those who aren't always end up paying. Waaaaay back when my oldests were testing cubs waters, there was a blow up because it turned out the leader was letting her son's friends in free, and spreading the divided expenses only over the rest. Her boy had a hard time making friends, so this was her way of basicly roping in some of his classmates. So out of 10 boys, only 6 were paying for everything because she was not dividing the cost over 10, just the 6 that weren't in his class. Not cool.

[Haiku]

To say they want everyone to volunteer AND pay because we are supposed to do this together, but ____ people don't have to pay. 

 

I have no problem with people who put in more time not paying as much. In fact, the kids' hockey organization covers the travel fees for the coaches (head coaches only, not assistants like my dh, so I have no financial stake in this argument). Without coaches, there would be no team. Some of the coaches don't even have kids playing hockey; their kids have grown up or are not yet old enough or the don't even have kids and coach because they love hockey and coaching. I don't think it is a good thing to ask coaches to volunteer their time (lots and lots of it, in hockey) AND pay for the privilege. For travel teams, travel costs can exceed the team fee; you might be asking a coach to pony up $6-8000 dollars for travel fees, all for the privilege of being a volunteer coach. 

 

Hockey coaches put in HUGE amounts of time. I think it's totally fair to compensate them by paying for their travel. 

 

Also, our organization asks for volunteers to staff the tournaments it hosts. We get $20 off fees for every 3-hour shift we staff. I think that's great. It encourages volunteers without punishing those who don't or can't.

 

My dh is on the board and has been for four years. He has put in literally thousands of hours building and advancing youth hockey in our area (not to mention that he has to spend a few hundred dollars every year keeping his coaching certification updated). We get zero break on the fees for this, and I think we should, personally. Without people like my husband (not casual volunteers, but people who devote their lives to keeping the organization afloat and running), there would be no youth hockey in the area. Reward the people who go above and beyond.

[shawthorne44]

And that's fine if that's what you want to do. Be prepared many won't do it though, so you should have a policy in place for handling how to out kids whose parents don't actually volunteer.

 

For me, this is why we don't do scouts or competitive sports. Which stinks sometimes because a few of my kids are very out going and would love to do it, but *I* have absolutely ZERO desire to camp, run a troop, or get into sports. I flunked gym class in school bc I hated it. I don't want my entire family to have to get into scouts or a sport, but I'd cheer those kids on for sure tho in doing what they like.

 

This is also why I don't normally do outside activities for my kids until they are closer to age 10 or 12, because they are more accountable for it themselves at that age.

 

There are other jobs you could do.  For example, you could be the Cookie or Popcorn Mom.  I think in any troop out there those positions would exempt you from any other volunteer position, including your kid being on the short-list of kids allowed to go on the camp-outs when they have to limit the numbers due to not enough parents going along.  

[Murphy101]

I have no problem with people who put in more time not paying as much.

 

 

Sure. That's not exactly what I wrote about tho. I said it's not fair to say everyone should equally share the work load and costs, then turn around and exempt some from paying in. I wouldn't have any issue with covering the coach or giving everyone equal chances to reduce their expenses.

[QueenCat]

I think some expenses are reasonable to reimburse someone for or exempt them from............ such as driving. Dh always drives to scout camp. In our troop, drivers do not pay the gas. All scouts pay cash, up front for gas, which is given to the drivers. The driver's scout does not pay, as their family's contribution is the wear and tear on their vehicle. Since dh always gets an oil change, and has our vehicle inspected, tires checked, etc, I think this is perfectly reasonable. Especially the years where the troop went to camp 9 hours away.

[Murphy101]

There are other jobs you could do.  For example, you could be the Cookie or Popcorn Mom.  I think in any troop out there those positions would exempt you from any other volunteer position, including your kid being on the short-list of kids allowed to go on the camp-outs when they have to limit the numbers due to not enough parents going along.

 

Those are HUGE time consuming volunteer positions?! LOL And I hate fundraisers. I always buy out of them. For every 2 minutes the kid spends ringing a doorbell and looking cute for money, the parent spends 20 dealing with forms, money, gathering and distributing the sold goods. No thanks.

 

And I'm okay with that. No hard feelings. The OP asked about scouts and other events and I'm just sharing my perspective.

[Rebel Yell]

I have no problem with people who put in more time not paying as much. In fact, the kids' hockey organization covers the travel fees for the coaches (head coaches only, not assistants like my dh, so I have no financial stake in this argument). Without coaches, there would be no team. Some of the coaches don't even have kids playing hockey; their kids have grown up or are not yet old enough or the don't even have kids and coach because they love hockey and coaching. I don't think it is a good thing to ask coaches to volunteer their time (lots and lots of it, in hockey) AND pay for the privilege. For travel teams, travel costs can exceed the team fee; you might be asking a coach to pony up $6-8000 dollars for travel fees, all for the privilege of being a volunteer coach. 

 

Hockey coaches put in HUGE amounts of time. I think it's totally fair to compensate them by paying for their travel. 

 

Also, our organization asks for volunteers to staff the tournaments it hosts. We get $20 off fees for every 3-hour shift we staff. I think that's great. It encourages volunteers without punishing those who don't or can't.

 

My dh is on the board and has been for four years. He has put in literally thousands of hours building and advancing youth hockey in our area (not to mention that he has to spend a few hundred dollars every year keeping his coaching certification updated). We get zero break on the fees for this, and I think we should, personally. Without people like my husband (not casual volunteers, but people who devote their lives to keeping the organization afloat and running), there would be no youth hockey in the area. Reward the people who go above and beyond.

:iagree:

[Catherine]

One decision that might completely change your situation would be to require parents to attend meeting with their scouts. The pack that my husband led for 3 years had always had this requirement so he did not have to create it. He still had plenty to do with choosing, organizing and leading activities, but there was very little crowd control because the parents were always there to do it.

 

You will undoubtedly lose families if this rule is adopted. I think our pack saw it as reinforcing one of the purposes of scouting, to bring parents closer to their sons by doing fun projects and activities together.

[DawnM]

this is nowhere NEAR the way our troop works.

 

If you are willing to go on a campout and chaperone, your portion of camp is paid, that is IT!  No uniforms, no equipment, nothing else.  And honestly, I am not even sure if our troop pays or if BSA says adult leaders don't have to pay for the week long camp sponsored by BSA.

 

Our volunteers, like Den leaders, get nothing.  

 

Volunteers for Philmont and high adventure trips have to pay just like everyone else.

 

Dawn

 

I whole heartedly agree with this. It doesn't seem fair to have it both ways. To say they want everyone to volunteer AND pay because we are supposed to do this together, but ____ people don't have to pay. That basicly turns them into employees of the activity, yes? (Granted poorly paid most of the time. :) ) And if so, then no, I'm not going to feel too bad about not volunteering.

In some troops (not ours I don't think, but some) all the freebies leaders get can really add up to a not small amount. Free uniforms, free trips, free equipment. In another troop a leader bought a lot of expensive camping items. Cast iron skillets and such. Then charged all the other parents $70 each for the camping trip to reimburse her. She informed them of this three days before the trip! I would have pitched a fit and said we are staying home then, but apparently no one there wanted to hurt her feelings or upset their kids looking forward to the trip, so they all paid it. :/ Nuts. But there you go.

Also, I see times when it is not fairly done. In some cases from the outside, it sure looks like those who are buddies are free and those who aren't always end up paying. Waaaaay back when my oldests were testing cubs waters, there was a blow up because it turned out the leader was letting her son's friends in free, and spreading the divided expenses only over the rest. Her boy had a hard time making friends, so this was her way of basicly roping in some of his classmates. So out of 10 boys, only 6 were paying for everything because she was not dividing the cost over 10, just the 6 that weren't in his class. Not cool.

 

[DawnM]

Ours only requires Tiger parents to be in the actual den meeting (BSA rule), but we emphasize that we are NOT a drop off unit.  Parents must be on the premises at all times.  They just don't have to be with their child in a den meeting.

 

Typically I am running around like crazy anyway as I am in either in a cub scout committee meeting or taking charge of used uniforms, T-shirt sales for pack and crew, awards, patches for uniforms, slide sales, and neckerchief sales.  Someone is always looking for me.

 

Dh is a scout master assistant and goes with the bigger boys in the troop.   I am still working with the pack right now but my youngest will be bridging next Spring to boy scouts!

 

Dawn

 

 

One decision that might completely change your situation would be to require parents to attend meeting with their scouts. The pack that my husband led for 3 years had always had this requirement so he did not have to create it. He still had plenty to do with choosing, organizing and leading activities, but there was very little crowd control because the parents were always there to do it.

You will undoubtedly lose families if this rule is adopted. I think our pack saw it as reinforcing one of the purposes of scouting, to bring parents closer to their sons by doing fun projects and activities together.

 

[Soror]

Our cub scout leaders don't get any perks usually but dh has lobbied for one of our den leaders to get a break as she puts in a lot of work and financially needs it. In AHG we haven't either but we are talking about giving a little incentive next year. I'm considering offering a bit of a break for our co-op teachers as I think that is only fair considering they are doing considerably more work.

 

*fwiw dh is Asst. Cubmaster and was previously a Den Leader. I'm on the board for our AHG group and have also been a Unit Leader. We've never received any perks.

[Guest]

LATE to the conversation, but after reading only a few posts, here's my 2 cents.

 

1.  If parents DON'T volunteer, they could face the collapse of the Troop.  This is what happened to us.  Our small troop had each parent serving in at least 1 and mostly 2 of the *Scout Required* positions.  We had 10 boys; three of these were from single-parent homes.  Four of the families moved.  We were down to 5 boys.  That number of boys' PARENTS could not support the number of required posts.  It was too much for too few.  

 

2.  There can be a monetary or in-kind substitute.  And at least in our Troop, it was the parents who gave the most of time who also ended up giving the most of their treasure.  This is not right.  I understand that some people *can't* go camping as a 2nd adult (like, for example, I can't--health issues).  But that does not excuse them from other ways of involvement.  

 

3.  It has to be fair.  It should be set down *in committee* (not up to an individual) to decide who gets what "relief".  That takes away the personal favoritism AND allows for the Troop to make provision for situations that might have not-public knowledge that bears on the decision.  

 

I am in a lecturing mood today, so please forgive my tone.  I'm trying not to lecture my son (who needs it) and am ending up lecturing you (who do not).  

 

[LisaB]

As someone who is multiply disabled and on government assistance this troubles me. I can't volunteer - I can barely get out of my house for my many doctor's and hospital appointments. It is a struggle just to make his lunch every day. And I certainly don't have one spare cent, I often go hungry and without needed medicines, and we're at the food bank every week just to make sure my son doesn't go hungry. There is no way I could spend anything on this. Does this mean my son doesn't deserve to have this experience, because his Mom is a dud? I think there needs to be an opportunity for exceptions when warranted.