"CPS has authority over every child in the state of Texas"

[Aelwydd]

See, it's stories like this that make me afraid of CPS. And this happened in TEXAS?!? :bored:

 

Why are you so shocked?

[Pamela H in Texas]

So I took the kids to the doctor. When I made the appointment, the woman was like, "WHAT? I see you in here all the time! There is no way any of your children are mistreated by you!" Duh :) When we got in the room, I guess the nurse hadn't heard yet; so I had to explain why we were *really* there (not really the runny noses and 99.2 "fevers"). She was so taken aback. Again, sees us all the time, not the slightest bit concerned about any child in our care at any time, etc. So she goes to tell our NP. The other NP was in the room (we have used her when we needed to...she also is very nice). The other one says to ours, "so now CPS investigators have medical degrees too?"

 

I was nervous when Ms B looked into T's ears. PLEASE don't let there be an infection. There wasn't!

She checked all three of my kiddos (she had seen Monkey yesterday).

She apologized that the kids are going through this, that we were.

She said she'd be happy to talk to the worker. I'll have hubby give her the information when he does the interview.

 

However, I'm a little worried about that school. I got a call a few minutes ago:

 

Woman at school: Hello, Mrs. H, S was "up here" and said the kids were going to another house.

Me: blah blah blah, basically that they will be moved by the 22nd and I figured I'd call closer to time.

Woman: oh okay, blah, blah, blah

Me: Okay, well, is S okay? Why was S in the office?

Woman: Oh, no. We were in the library watching a movie instead of them going out for recess

Me: oh...

Woman: I had S on one side of me and A (S's sibling) on the other side and S told me they were leaving today.

Me: Oh, okay. Well, when I find out when, I'll let you know.

 

I'm just kinda suspicious now. Honestly, if one of the kids said it, then why would the school report what is not abuse?

[NoseInABook]

I am so sorry this is happening to you guys. It's scary to hear what people do to foster parents. We're just dipping our toes into fostering and I've been nervous about it several times based on other people's complaint stories.

[I.Dup.]

Why are you so shocked?

 

Because I've always heard that Texas is big on little to no government intervention, the people having the right to do what they want with their families, the whole wanting to separate from the states to avoid all big government, etc.

 

I missed the part where they ordered the kids to strip down and took pictures of them naked!?! WTH. I would look into getting a lawyer and suing over that. My kids would be horribly traumatized, that is just crazy.

[Aelwydd]

 

 

 

Texan since 1956. Where on earth in Texas is paddling still legal in the public schools ?!?!?!

 

 

Because while this state is rapidly changing, it is still (proudly) backwards in many respects. And a huge reason why we home school, as it turns out.

 

 

 

 

Pamela, I wish your family the best. My experience with CPS is having a paediatrician call in my sister, because she refused an immunization for her son at a well-child check up. The CPS worker came to the house, had a nice chat with my sister, and promptly dismissed the case.

 

(I still wished she'd sued that doctor, for abusing the system for the sake of his intimidation tactics.)

 

The truth is, yes, CPS abuses its authority, authority it's been granted, in response to the fact that there are parents out there who've abused their authority, and their kids.

 

There is no sense of "measured approach" in our society. It's always all-or-nothing, one extreme or the other.

[KrissiK]

I am so sorry. I know how you feel, on a much smaller scale. The travelling social worker who checks on the girls has been writing in her reports that our house is messy. OK, there are 5 kids and me here all day. There are toys laying around. THe kids make their beds, but it looks like kids make their beds. However, our house gets cleaned by a cleaning service, and it's not filthy, just messy, so everyone else involved in our case has blown this woman off. It hasn't gotten us in trouble at all, but I KNOW THE FEELING. Every time a social worker comes around you feel judged and helpless and if they have something against you, for whatever reason, they have the power. They wield the big stick and there's little you can do. I am so sorry!

[Pamela H in Texas]

Are your fosters being planned to be moved? Was that the plan to begin with? I thought you were moving to adopt them?

 

Terabith, I adopted the first three (the hs'd ones in my signature) in July. And I'd do anything on earth to adopt Monkey.

 

We are not a good fit for these three, especially one of them. We were working with CPS to get them broadcasted to get an adoptive home. But due to a perfect storm of stuff, I put in notice (30 days to remove them) last week. It killed me to do it; but my forever kiddos must come first.

 

We had already decided that we would no longer take kids older than T if we decided to continue foster after the situation with Monkey was resolved.

[Aelwydd]

 

 

Because I've always heard that Texas is big on little to no government intervention, the people having the right to do what they want with their families, the whole wanting to separate from the states to avoid all big government, etc.

 

 

 

 

That depends on what is defined as "little government." If you're a woman who wants to have an abortion, you have to submit to a government ordered intrusive transvaginal exam first. Doesn't matter if you're a rape victim, or it's for a health-related reason or what, the government has ordered it, so you have to comply with...state-sanctioned vaginal penetration by an object up to 10 inches long.

 

(I don't know how that can be anything but Big Government, but I digress.)

 

 

If, OTOH, you are a woman who has a baby out of wedlock, and decides not to tell the father about the baby's existence, and to give it up for adoption, she only has to wait 30 days (for him to figure it out and to pursue his rights), before she can go give it away, or do whatever. This is what is called putative law. She has almost all the power in that situation, to totally deprive him of his father's rights, or to extract from him, through state force, child support.

 

If you put your child in a public school here, and your child misses more than approximately 9 days a semester, and the state will send a police officer to your door to cite you for truancy. Your child will likely have to repeat the semester in summer school. Excused absences for things like family vacations, or even a trip to the zoo, do not exist. The school system dictates to the parents attendance requirements, and it grants, at its own discretion, exceptions to the rule (which is damned rare, considering the school loses money for every student absent, for each day missed).

 

If you home school, there is NO oversight, zero, zip, none. There is nothing codified into state law about what you must teach your child; just one case, Leeper vs. Arlington ISD, wherein the judge stipulates that a child must learn reading, grammar, math, history, good citizenship...and that's it. No science is mandated at all. No health education. No art, music, or anything else.

 

 

 

I could give you many more examples, but the point is, there is a dichotomy between the "wild West" side of Texas law, and the controlling, authoritarian side of it.

[jillian]

I'm shocked that there are school districts who don't allow excused absences. I graduated high school in 2004 and we had excused absences as long as there was a parent note.

[Lisa in SC]

I'm shocked that there are school districts who don't allow excused absences. I graduated high school in 2004 and we had excused absences as long as there was a parent note.

 

 

In our district, any absence accompanied by a doctor note is considered excused. A child is allowed 2 parent notes per semester, but the school reserves the right to excuse the absence or to call it unexcused based upon the attendance officer's opinion as to whether or not the parent note gives a "valid" excuse.

[jillian]

Ah, how much has changed in the last 9 years. I missed a lot of school due to chronic illness in 11th grade. I missed about 30 days of school. No truant officer ever came to the door and I was able to petition to continue with school as intended after I came back. I kept up with all my work too.

[Joker]

n/m

[Whereneverever]

Never mind.

[Terabith]

Terabith, I adopted the first three (the hs'd ones in my signature) in July. And I'd do anything on earth to adopt Monkey.

 

We are not a good fit for these three, especially one of them. We were working with CPS to get them broadcasted to get an adoptive home. But due to a perfect storm of stuff, I put in notice (30 days to remove them) last week. It killed me to do it; but my forever kiddos must come first.

 

We had already decided that we would no longer take kids older than T if we decided to continue foster after the situation with Monkey was resolved.

 

 

I'm so sorry. I knew you'd adopted the first three, but wasn't sure about the plan with the next three. I'm so sorry things haven't worked out. I pray every day for Monkey and that situation. My smileys aren't working, but hugs. What a terrifying situation!

[Pamela H in Texas]

It looks like foster kids shouldn't be spanked in TX, but also that it's not a cps matter. I hope you get it sorted out.

 

Child in question is not a foster child.

 

Oh, as for absences...Tony had quite a few last year due to medical supervision. The absences were excused (all but two, I think it was), but when it got over the magic number we got a warning in the mail about not being allowed to have more than 17 in a year. Well, that is ridiculous. Some kids have special circumstances. He had an excuse for each one. We did go over 17, btw. Nothing happened. Probably because we were careful to get the notes, I guess. Well, and probably because he was THREE years old.

[SunnyDays]

Texas is *very* strict with their truancy laws. My best friend lives there, and has a son who happens to get sick a lot. She's gone rounds with the school and already been hauled into court once, even with notes and explanations from the doctor... it's a mess.

 

Pamela, I'm so sorry. I hope things get sorted out quickly. All of you who do fostering, my heart goes out to you... it's such a wonderful thing that you do for these kids, and it can't be easy.

[TravelingChris]

I would be so fast at filing an ADA lawsuit if we were being harassed about absences and my kid has a medical issue, they wouldn't know what hit them. In fact, if my youngest doesn't need the GI bill education, I might just decide to go to law school on it just so I can start filing lawsuits against bureaucratic school systems and anyone else who truly deserves one.

[Aelwydd]

I would be so fast at filing an ADA lawsuit if we were being harassed about absences and my kid has a medical issue, they wouldn't know what hit them. In fact, if my youngest doesn't need the GI bill education, I might just decide to go to law school on it just so I can start filing lawsuits against bureaucratic school systems and anyone else who truly deserves one.

 

Please do. My son had (has) asthma, and despite having documentation in the form of notes from his specialist for each of his absences, we still received notice that our son may have to repeat the semester the following summer to receive credit. His grades were all As except for one B. He had made up all his work. And the main reason for why he had missed 9 days that semester, was he had caught the "swine flu" that October, which for an asthmatic child, is not a good thing.

 

It didn't matter that his absences were all of them--again, all-- were documented, illness-related incidences. Yet, we were told that if he missed any more days, his case would go to a committee who would decide whether to grant him an exception to the 90% attendance policy mandated by the state.

 

By the way, this was the same year, if I remember correctly, when the governor signed an emergency executive order to add the HPV immunization to the schedule for all 9 to 14 year old girls.

 

This state has got serious boundary issues when it comes to respecting parental autonomy in regards to their own kids.

[Melissa in Australia]

I'm so sorry!!! I would report the CPS worker for anything remotely out of line.

 

Our dds are adopted from foster care and in Utah you aren't allowed to spank ANY children in your home while you are a licensed foster parent, no matter if they are bios, adopted, or foster. Is this also the rule in Texas?

 

I dealt with CPS as a teacher in L.A., but it was for bruises and welts from extension cords and belts. :(

 

Kids that age are usually very honest about exactly what happened. I'm so surprised this was handled so poorly.

 

My heart brakes for your kids.

 

 

there is a similar rule here in Victoria, Aus

[Deb in NZ]

In NZ you aren't allowed to spank any child at all for any reason. We've seen good parents prosecuted for mildly discipling their own children after this law was passed.

[ElizabethB]

I would be so fast at filing an ADA lawsuit if we were being harassed about absences and my kid has a medical issue, they wouldn't know what hit them. In fact, if my youngest doesn't need the GI bill education, I might just decide to go to law school on it just so I can start filing lawsuits against bureaucratic school systems and anyone else who truly deserves one.

 

LOL!

 

I have had many friends complain about absence policies in several different states in the last several years...I have heard that the reason is that over certain absence numbers, the state does not get $. I have no idea if this is true or not, but have heard it from several different friends with children in schools in several different states.

 

(Some civilian friends with medial absences, but also military friends who took off time with their children when their spouses got a week off after being gone for a year--and some of these people had kids in K or 1st grade and made up all the work they missed.)

[Kaleidoscope]

I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

[TXBeth]

 

 

I'm pretty sure it is legal in the entire state. My school district (Duncanville) has the option of using corporal punishment. I have to fill out a form every year stating if I will or will not allow the school to use corporal punishment on my child.

 

Susan in TX

 

 

Hey! Fellow Duncanvillian here! I wonder if we know ech other IRL.

[Pamela H in Texas]

In NZ you aren't allowed to spank any child at all for any reason.

 

OOOH, we could change this to a spanking debate thread :)

 

Seriously, I think outlawing spanking is a good idea. Many great parents would do away with the tool if they knew they HAD to. HOWEVER, my problem with the idea is that so many people do not consider a child disciplined if not spanked. They equate the two. Some just haven't thought about it (almost EVERY parent does at least SOME teaching and guiding outside of punishment). Many, especially here, really don't use much outside of spanking for punishments though (at least for key age groups). For a good number of people, I think that taking away their key discipline method could cause much more issue. SOME of those people would try to learn better (online groups, books, etc). Many would just come up with other means that are just awful. I assume the lady asked my kids something about soap in their mouths or something because of a question my daughter asked me after the interviews. I would never do that or any other "open your mouth" punishment (or anything like that because I don't want my kids to submit to ANYONE in that manner.

 

Anyway, so it might be a great idea, but somehow, I think the country needs to address parental need to discipline before, during, and after putting that into place.

[jillian]

I just wish people in the US would have to take a parenting class when they were pregnant instead of waiting till there is a problem. Now I've swatted dd a few times on a very fluffed butt (think cloth diaper and snow pants) and very gently but it broke her cycle if hysterics enough that I could talk to her. Now I opt to blow a gentle stream of air onto her face to break the cycle if she is overly worked up.

[Mama Geek]

OOOH, we could change this to a spanking debate thread :)

 

Seriously, I think outlawing spanking is a good idea. Many great parents would do away with the tool if they knew they HAD to. HOWEVER, my problem with the idea is that so many people do not consider a child disciplined if not spanked. They equate the two. Some just haven't thought about it (almost EVERY parent does at least SOME teaching and guiding outside of punishment). Many, especially here, really don't use much outside of spanking for punishments though (at least for key age groups). For a good number of people, I think that taking away their key discipline method could cause much more issue. SOME of those people would try to learn better (online groups, books, etc). Many would just come up with other means that are just awful. I assume the lady asked my kids something about soap in their mouths or something because of a question my daughter asked me after the interviews. I would never do that or any other "open your mouth" punishment (or anything like that because I don't want my kids to submit to ANYONE in that manner.

 

Anyway, so it might be a great idea, but somehow, I think the country needs to address parental need to discipline before, during, and after putting that into place.

 

Do you really want to criminalize parents who spank their kids by either taking their kids from them or putting them in jail? Do you really want to tear apart families over spanking?

[Χά�ων]

If you put your child in a public school here, and your child misses more than approximately 9 days a semester, and the state will send a police officer to your door to cite you for truancy. Your child will likely have to repeat the semester in summer school. Excused absences for things like family vacations, or even a trip to the zoo, do not exist. The school system dictates to the parents attendance requirements, and it grants, at its own discretion, exceptions to the rule (which is damned rare, considering the school loses money for every student absent, for each day missed).

 

!!!! Geeze. DS would have missed 4 days for doctors appointments and 3 for being sick just in January. There is no way on Earth he would be able to meet that requirement.

[Murphy101]

 

 

Do you really want to criminalize parents who spank their kids by either taking their kids from them or putting them in jail? Do you really want to tear apart families over spanking?

 

And there is where my sympathy for the OP went out the window. :(

 

In the same thread she is bemoaning and fearing CPS overstepping and not being reasonable, she endorses govt intrusion into parenting.

 

There is nothing wrong with spanking. When people put it on par with abuse, it deminishes what real abuse is.

[Jennifer3141]

I'm agreeing with Martha here. I think the OP has some personality issues in this thread.

 

But what most confuses me is who DOESN'T think CPS doesn't have ultimate authority over their kids? And frankly, it NEEDS to be that way for every whackadoodle parent who thinks the rod and cane are parenting tools.

 

Does CPS make mistakes? Yep. CPS is still just a bunch of human beings, prone to all our foibles. And when it gets caught making mistakes, lawsuits should and do happen.

 

I think spanking in a home with foster kids is probably pushing the limits.

[Jennifer3141]

It's insane. IMO, the whole state is whacko. it took me 48 years to get the heck out of Texas, and I thank my lucky stars every day that my son will not have to spend another day there ever again. It has its good bits, sure, but really, its core is rotten. Can you tell how much I hate it?

 

We used to live 3 doors down from a family whose wife was a fairly high up employee of Harris County's CPS. This mom ignored her kids horribly. Their yard and home were disgusting, she left them at home (homeschooling supposedly) with dad, who was an alcoholic who slept most of the day. They'd come to our house and were always hungry. She eventually took in a foster teen, but I think it was mainly for the babysitting aspect.

 

I had a friend who had CPS called on her by a lady who disliked her. The claim--She feeds her kids only pancakes. She spent months trying to get the situation resolved. And no, they ate extremely well.

 

 

I live as far away from Texas as I can manage and still be an American but the situation you describe in the first example isn't solely the problem of CPS. My best friend's ex-DH is one of the worst fathers I've ever seen. But he is a social worker who thinks he's just AWESOME. To say he has personal hygiene issues is putting it mildly - the guy looks like a homeless hobbit and smells like a hobbit's barn. The idea that any agency thinks he's a good role model for kids is laughable. He is a wretched father. And a wretched human being. IMO, that isn't an agency problem with CPS. That's a problem with humanity.

 

When DH sued his former partners for violating patients, we had a surprise CPS visit two days later. Granted, we had a lawyer present in the home but CPS looked around, talked with our lawyer and then later confirmed to the judge that the "anonymous" complaint was made by one of the other physcians. They went out of their way to help and they also pressed (reduced - dang, a felony would have REALLY helped!!) charges against the liar. (He had never been in our home - legally at least, lol) But CPS did everything they could to help us and they were beyond annoyed to have to investigate a fake claim - they have their hands full from real horrors. :(

[Orthodox6]

Controlled brief spanking (a couple of controlled swats) from a parent calm enough to make that decision is just one of many appropriate disciplinary tools. There is no need to outlaw something like that. Maybe that "rights of a child" document, which removes authority from parents and gives it to governments, would please those who categorically reject spanking.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Do you really want to criminalize parents who spank their kids by either taking their kids from them or putting them in jail? Do you really want to tear apart families over spanking?

 

Nope. And I don't appreciate my post being taken further than I actually said (and other poster said she doesn't feel for us anymore because I think there may be some benefit to losing spanking as a discipline method as long as it was done well???).

 

NOWHERE in my post did I suggest that kids should be taken from spanking parents, put in jail, etc!

 

However, I definitely think that your concern is another good reason (btw, the first being that I simply think too many people would find themselves unable to discipline effectively) reason not to do it. Because it seems that everyone needs a punishment overhead in order to do the right thing (maybe because we typically over-punish our kids so our adults see nothing but punishment as effective), I think you are right. Likely, that is what *would* happen though *I* Never said anything of the sort and don't think that would be best.

 

MY opinion is that taking children from minor situations (clutter, spanking, etc) is extremely damaging. INVESTIGATING in the way that was done to my children was damaging in those situation. It is inappropriate, imo. So throwing parents in jail for two or four swats on the bum would be wrong as would be ripping children from their homes. In fact, several of the children I have had in my home as foster kids, imo, should never have been in the system; and I think were worse off for it (especially a certain five year old). I also think the system abuses children by putting their own agendas, policies, and parental rights above the needs of children. My children were severely abused by the system. Monkey has been and may continue to be abused by the system. All we can do is hope that the difference we make as foster parents (and later adoptive parents) helps prevent and heal these poor children.

 

Anyway, so now you know my opinion regarding what YOU brought up. Again, *I* didn't. I just think there may be some value to ending spanking; but I don't trust (as you obviously don't either ;) ) that it could be done appropriately or well in this country.

[Pamela H in Texas]

But what most confuses me is who DOESN'T think CPS doesn't have ultimate authority over their kids? And frankly, it NEEDS to be that way for every whackadoodle parent who thinks the rod and cane are parenting tools.

 

I just had never really thought of it that way before. Why should I have? I didn't have anything to worry about. I guess because it didn't effect me (and my children), it didn't cross my mind. And I'm not the only one. I was telling another foster parent (we went through foster classes together) that we were being investigated for using time out and spanking with T (who she knows is mine) and she was taken aback also. She asked how it was possible that I was being investigated by regular CPS rather than licensing? I explained that it was the same as all these kids' parents (she and I both had all our kids there). She thought for a second and agreed that she never thought about it before. Why would she have? She doesn't abuse her children so never thought about anyone coming and interviewing them, having them disrobe for pictures, taking them, etc.

 

I did that same double thought when the investigator told me! Oh, I guess that makes sense. Sorta.

But more than anything I wanted to protect my poor children. What that investigator did to my kids hurt them more than any spanking or time out I allegedly gave.

 

BTW, I also got to talk to a previous CPS investigator. I didn't tell him our situation; but I sure wish he had been the one who had come out the other day. He really seemed to have a head on his shoulders. He also said that it takes a good 2-3 years to really get the job and to close out dumb situations in well under the 30 days rather than overdoing everything, getting a supervisor in on everything, etc. Thankfully, my agency director knew of our investigator so MAYBE she also has enough experience to just close this nonsense out. I hope.

[WiseOwlKnits]

What a sad state of affairs. :(

 

Did they end up removing the 3 foster kiddos on Friday? Or did they come home to you after all?

 

I'm praying for healing for your kids and peace for you.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Kat, nobody left.

Today, we got new shoes for everyone. Everyone is happy :)

One of mine is having extra trouble still. We're keeping him close. Hopefully he can overcome this soon :)

[Pamela H in Texas]

I'm sure there are many more children whose lives have been literally saved by social workers.

 

I wouldn't have my youngest (at least) had CPS not followed through the last time.

And before that, CPS paid for a caregiver in the home to take care of my middle one when he was an infant. No doubt that was lifesaving too.

[Mama Geek]

OOOH, we could change this to a spanking debate thread :)

 

Seriously, I think outlawing spanking is a good idea. Many great parents would do away with the tool if they knew they HAD to. HOWEVER, my problem with the idea is that so many people do not consider a child disciplined if not spanked. They equate the two. Some just haven't thought about it (almost EVERY parent does at least SOME teaching and guiding outside of punishment). Many, especially here, really don't use much outside of spanking for punishments though (at least for key age groups). For a good number of people, I think that taking away their key discipline method could cause much more issue. SOME of those people would try to learn better (online groups, books, etc). Many would just come up with other means that are just awful. I assume the lady asked my kids something about soap in their mouths or something because of a question my daughter asked me after the interviews. I would never do that or any other "open your mouth" punishment (or anything like that because I don't want my kids to submit to ANYONE in that manner.

 

Anyway, so it might be a great idea, but somehow, I think the country needs to address parental need to discipline before, during, and after putting that into place.

 

Last time I checked outlawing meant making it illegal and if you make something illegal that means you could either go to jail or loose your kids over it. That is why I went there.

[Aelwydd]

 

Last time I checked outlawing meant making it illegal and if you make something illegal that means you could either go to jail or loose your kids over it. That is why I went there.

 

 

Yes, but there are many things that are illegal that do not equate a prison sentence, or having one's family split up. It is possible that Pamela had a misdemeanor type offense in mind, when she said she would support making it illegal.

 

And just my own $0.02 here, but I will never understand the derision some folks express towards the ideal of "child's rights," especially since we have a glaring example of an insititution--public school--that constantly tramples children's and parents' rights. I recommend the documentary, War on Children, for some very disturbing evidence of how the lack of rights afforded children in our society means children are threatened, arrested, and bullied every day by school officials, because they are regarded as having no rights.

 

I'm tired of the state, and by extention, the schools acting as if they own my child. My child is owned by nobody, including my husband or myself. We are responsible for him and for his care, but he is his own person, and is due respect as a citizen and a human being.

[PachiSusan]

My child is owned by nobody, including my husband or myself. We are responsible for him and for his care, but he is his own person, and is due respect as a citizen and a human being.

 

 

yes this. My child is a gift from God and my responsibility is to get her back to heaven with God, who gave her to me to take care of, love, and teach. I don't own her.

[Aelwydd]

 

yes this. My child is a gift from God and my responsibility is to get her back to heaven with God, who gave her to me to take care of, love, and teach. I don't own her.

 

 

My dad used to say that he only had me and my sisters on loan from God, and that we're His children first and foremost.

[Kathryn]

 

Yes, but there are many things that are illegal that do not equate a prison sentence, or having one's family split up. It is possible that Pamela had a misdemeanor type offense in mind, when she said she would support making it illegal.

 

 

Yes, like using child car seats. The penalty here is a $150 fine, not prison time or having your children taken away.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Yes, but there are many things that are illegal that do not equate a prison sentence, or having one's family split up. It is possible that Pamela had a misdemeanor type offense in mind, when she said she would support making it illegal.

 

I'm kinda law-dense. But is using a car seat or speeding even a misdemeanor or whatever? Do you have to criminal record?

I really kinda do need to know. My daughter got a ticket for driving without a Tx inspection sticker when we got back to Tx.

Well, VA and TX have reciprocal agreements and since we were in VA when it was due (we were there several months altogether),

we just got it done in VA. Well, the officer didn't want to hear it. And my daughter took print-outs from the internet; but didn't

fight it when they had her pay $20 for a fee (not fine). Since I wasn't there (she was 18 or 19), I didn't understand and didn't

think she should pay anything since she did nothing wrong. Anyway, but if those sorts of things are on your record, then I do

want her to do something about it because I don't want my kid to have a record.

 

Anyway, when I think doing away with spanking (and a number of other things), I really don't think jail time or removing one's children.

Heck, they don't remove kids even when there is real abuse, domestic violence, filth, etc if it is something that can be handled in

fairly short order. THere are tons of things WAY short of jail and children being removed from the home!

 

Did you happen to get the fact that my kids were traumatized by an investigation about spanking?

Why would I want to submit anyone else's children to such an extreme response to a mild issue (if it even were an issue)?

[Aelwydd]

I'm kinda law-dense. But is using a car seat or speeding even a misdemeanor or whatever? Do you have to criminal record?

I really kinda do need to know. My daughter got a ticket for driving without a Tx inspection sticker when we got back to Tx.

Well, VA and TX have reciprocal agreements and since we were in VA when it was due (we were there several months altogether),

we just got it done in VA. Well, the officer didn't want to hear it. And my daughter took print-outs from the internet; but didn't

fight it when they had her pay $20 for a fee (not fine). Since I wasn't there (she was 18 or 19), I didn't understand and didn't

think she should pay anything since she did nothing wrong. Anyway, but if those sorts of things are on your record, then I do

want her to do something about it because I don't want my kid to have a record.

 

A misdemeanor is usually a minor offense, often punishable by a fine. Your daughter's situation sounds like an administrative type infraction.

 

Anyway, when I think doing away with spanking (and a number of other things), I really don't think jail time or removing one's children.

Heck, they don't remove kids even when there is real abuse, domestic violence, filth, etc if it is something that can be handled in

fairly short order. THere are tons of things WAY short of jail and children being removed from the home!

 

Did you happen to get the fact that my kids were traumatized by an investigation about spanking?

Why would I want to submit anyone else's children to such an extreme response to a mild issue (if it even were an issue)?

 

Yeah, I hear you and I agree with the sentiment. But, this is Texas, where violent force is enshrined in our culture, whether it's the right to pack (concealed) heat in a library, or the right to spank your child with a belt. So, I don't think spanking is going to be outlawed here anytime soon.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Yeah, I hear you and I agree with the sentiment. But, this is Texas, where violent force is enshrined in our culture, whether it's the right to pack (concealed) heat in a library, or the right to spank your child with a belt. So, I don't think spanking is going to be outlawed here anytime soon.

 

I'm gonna hope that this just works in my favor! Seriously, a kid with no marks who was allegedly "spanked a lot" (according to either a 5yo or someone who hasn't seen us in 7months) surely can't mean we're gonna have any real issue with CPS, right? Not in Texas, right? Where schools can leave bruises, belts are normal spanking implements, where almost everyone has a spanking war-story?

 

Honestly, I haven't ever been so glad to live in THIS culture (in terms of child discipline) as much as I have been the last few days.

It may just save my kids from further harm by "the system."

 

ETA: Though I'm terribly sick and my kids just got over being sick, there was an event at a local shoe store allowing me to get 8 pairs of shoes for my littles, $140 worth, FREE. So we went. They did really well. One had a little trouble sitting, but I expected that. So since we were in this other town, we also went to a certain big box store. I set the kids up in the way that worked for me. I would make one change had I to do it over again. But other than telling Monkey, "no more whining" a couple times, they did fine. Really, *we* are fine as a family. Each of us has our anxieties about the investigations; but we're making it just fine. And I can handle my kids without "being mean" and "harsh punishment" (one said by someone, the other in the investigation paperwork) just fine.

[annandatje]

According to the online version of the Texas Foster Care Handbook for Youth, Texas foster children are not supposed to be subjected to corporal punishment.

 

http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Documents/Child_Protection/pdf/foster-care-handbook.pdf

 

Many states have the no-corporal-punishment rule for children in foster care. However, reasonable case workers tend to give wiggle room to quality foster parents.

 

As Joanne has stated here before, the presence or absence of "mild" spanking as a discipline tool is not an indicator of quality parenting. Joanne, I'm sure I've probably mangled your words.

[Pamela H in Texas]

annandatje, just to clarify, the question isn't in regards to a foster child. I just happen to have foster children too.

[Carrie12345]

I am SO sorry. :-(

 

When I was investigated for allegedly hitting my teenager, the case worker did his best to "persuade" me to do private interviews with the younger kids and inspect the very youngest two. I told him he would need a court order to do either. While that certainly had an impact on his attitude, he did leave the rest of the kids alone.

 

After we were officially cleared, he called back b/c his supervisor was not happy that he didn't interview/inspect the rest of the kids. Once again, I demanded a court order. I haven't heard from him since.

 

I really hope I never do again, because I doubt he'll want to play nice!

[msjones]

This is why we quit fostering and never looked back.

 

One bizarre social worker with a completely unjustifiable 'report' to CPS and suddenly not only our foster child but our two bio kids could have been taken from us.

 

It was all resolved quickly and uneventfully. But I'll never forget how it felt to realize how vulnerable we had made ourselves.

 

No chance I'll risk that again.

[PeacefulChaos]

I'm agreeing with Martha here. I think the OP has some personality issues in this thread.

 

But what most confuses me is who DOESN'T think CPS doesn't have ultimate authority over their kids? And frankly, it NEEDS to be that way for every whackadoodle parent who thinks the rod and cane are parenting tools.

 

Does CPS make mistakes? Yep. CPS is still just a bunch of human beings, prone to all our foibles. And when it gets caught making mistakes, lawsuits should and do happen.

 

I think spanking in a home with foster kids is probably pushing the limits.

 

 

It makes me sick to imagine ANYONE having ultimate authority over my kids. Seriously. I sit here and try to imagine being ok with that, and no way. Absolutely not. They aren't the kids belonging to CPS. They're MY kids. They're MY responsibility.

Putting that sort of label on it - that CPS has ultimate authority over them - just screams of abuse of power to me. It makes me want to run and hide from the big bad government. :p I know that's not logical, but that's what that phrase makes me want to do! :lol:

[Deb in NZ]

The wording of the law can have a big impact on how future cases are dwelt with. The law in NZ that was known as the "Anti-Smacking" law and outlaws any use of "force" as a means of disciplining children. It does not state "physical" force, just "force." And it is up to the police to decide if "force" was used. So now our police have the power that should only reside with the courts. And if taken literally, good parents could be taken to court for forcing their dc to do things that are against their will. Think about difficult teens & preteens who want to go to parties, skip school, smoke, etc. & parents who enforce family rules that go against the wishes of the dc. Think of parents dealing with difficult toddlers who are putting themselves in danger. One father was brought up on charges when he was observed grabbing & swatting a 3yo on the bottom after the child tried to run into a busy street. This law was pushed through after there was a few high profile cases ending up with dead children. The number of child fatalities from abuse is the same now as before this law went into effect. Abusers don't pay attention to any laws, so it was never going to work anyway.

 

JMHO,