Why don't we have the same level of gun violence here?

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

 

There are other weapons of violence. According to Wikipedia (sorry not going deeper than that right now) The Rwandan genocideutilized AK47s, grenades, and according the article, 581,000 machetes imported from China.

 

 

 

Again, I wasn't referring to group-think mental illness or situations like the Rwandan genocide. I was thinking of lone mentally ill people like the kid in CT.

[Spy Car]

 

 

Well, you have your socially sanctioned wacko-ism, like in Afghanistan, or drug rings like in Mexico, perhaps. I was thinking more of the individual mentally ill person in say, the back jungle of Cambodia, who cannot afford to buy a weapon to go blow away half his village.

 

 

You unfortunately chose a country where an estimated 1.5 to 2.5 million people were victim to mass murder.

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

Our countries are not the same. We aren't the same culture. For that matter, many parts of the US have different cultures. The US is not one culture.

 

 

The US has a few national myths. Not everyone subscribes to them, but national myths provide a foundation that influences everyone. Those myths lie over the top of all those individual subcultures.

[TranquilMind]

I've seen & heard lots of heated discussion about the pros/cons of gun control in the US.

 

But what I just don't understand is why Canada has a significantly lower rate of gun violence/deaths vs. USA?

We have a similar demographic profile, we have video games, we have drug abuse, we have violent TV shows, we have the same music, we have mental illness, we have poverty, we have eroding value systems, etc, etc. We have all of the same things that the US has in terms of what other people say are leading to more crimes like Newtown. The only difference is we have HUGE restrictions on who can have a gun & what kind it can be.

 

If this had already been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere - please link for me so I can educate myself.

 

Am I missing something? I am genuinely perplexed how our 2 countries can be so similar and yet so different in this one area? And the only thing I can point to is the gun control?

 

 

That can't be the only difference. Mass killers are disturbed loner types. Maybe America has more of these and is a more disconnected, uncaring society?

 

Maybe the parenting is different?

 

Gun ownership is very high in Israel and some parts of Europe, yet they do not have the same level of mass killings. Maybe society is better connected. I think it has something to do with how we separate and segregate the family as early as possible and as much as possible at every level of society, but that's just a theory.

[Spy Car]

 

 

But how do we go about doing that? Some people don't have medical records or criminal records that would land them on any "list". And how do we put people on lists, but still maintain their privacy otherwise? Just because someone has a mental illness doesn't mean they are a criminal or ever would be one, and what if the information is used against them in other ways? It's not that simple (not saying you are saying it is simple).

 

 

Reasonable questions. There is certainly a tension between rights to privacy (including medical privacy) and security concerns.

 

Bill

 

[butterflymommy]

I bet if you took out gang and drug (dealing) related violence the rates of violence between the two countries wouldn't be too far apart. Remember that a lot of the "kids killed by guns" in the US are teenage gangbangers.

 

There was a horrific mass shooting at a montreal school some time ago... female engineering students were lined up and shot? I can't remember the details.

[Melissa in Australia]

The US has a few national myths. Not everyone subscribes to them, but national myths provide a foundation that influences everyone. Those myths lie over the top of all those individual subcultures.

 

Rosie you are a very brave person.

[KungFuPanda]

I'm not going to try to argue that we should all have the right to be armed to the teeth with whichever weapons we find attractive. I do think it's an interesting discussion. The US and Canada share a border, but are they enough alike to even compare. Isn't it much easier to control a smaller, more homogenous population? What are the 'drug wars' like in Canada? The laws and how they're enforced? US stats are very different if you subtract those numbers. Are the crime rates in Maine and New Brunswick hugely different? Are violent gun crimes really more saturated in the gun-loving south where so many people proudly own firearms, or are the crimes occurring in more liberal, gun-shy places? How DO you explain Kennesawga GA? http://rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm It's on my radar because a friend just moved there and was surprised about their odd gun laws.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

You unfortunately chose a country where an estimated 1.5 to 2.5 million people were victim to mass murder.

 

Bill

 

 

Dude, I'm not talking about political mass murder. That happens everywhere. I'm talking about a young boy who has no money to buy a weapon when his mental illness tells him it would be a good idea to go kill some people.

[elegantlion]

 

 

Again, I wasn't referring to group-think mental illness or situations like the Rwandan genocide. I was thinking of lone mentally ill people like the kid in CT.

 

 

Which does lead to the question of what mental health care is like in third world countries? Are they locked up? Or is it easier for family to step out of society and care for that individual due to the makeup of the country?

 

There is so much pressure in our society to be a part of the community, to be productive and doing something that is recognized by others as productive. Look at the grief some of us get because we decide to be SAHMs, then the grief we get for removing our children from the school society. For some of us we homeschool as one of the options, for others homeschooling is the only real option for various reasons.

 

As much freedom as we Americans sound off about, I think we are more judgmental about those that don't fit into our perceived cultural norms (noting there are many regional cultural norms throughout America). Is the acceptance of the individual better in other countries?

[Caroline]

I'm not going to try to argue that we should all have the right to be armed to the teeth with whichever weapons we find attractive. I do think it's an interesting discussion. The US and Canada share a border, but are they enough alike to even compare. Isn't it much easier to control a smaller, more homogenous population? What are the 'drug wars' like in Canada? The laws and how they're enforced? US stats are very different if you subtract those numbers. Are the crime rates in Maine and New Brunswick hugely different? Are violent gun crimes really more saturated in the gun-loving south where so many people proudly own firearms, or are the crimes occurring in more liberal, gun-shy places? How DO you explain Kennesawga GA? http://rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm It's on my radar because a friend just moved there and was surprised about their odd gun laws.

 

 

The crime rate in Kennesaw, GA dropped because they jettisoned the high crime areas into unincorporated Cobb County. It has zero to do with their gun laws.

[Melissa in Australia]

I don't know what myths those are, but nothing influences everyone.

 

Just saying, I do not want to be lumped into that club.

 

I would think that one of the myths Rosie was referring to might be that Americans have some sort of god given right

[Melissa in Australia]

 

Sorry, that's not true. Not everyone thinks like that.

 

I don't know how to do multi quotes.

Rosie said

The US has a few national myths. Not everyone subscribes to them, but national myths provide a foundation that influences everyone. Those myths lie over the top of all those individual subcultures

[Kimberly in IN]

I don't know a single person who owns a gun. Not one.

I think that would be unusual in the US???

Aside from the police of course.

 

 

I also don't know anyone who owns a gun, or at least who speaks about it. Aside from police officers and those in the armed forces, of course. I am an American, and, no, I don't think it is unusual or rare.

[DarlaS]

 

I looked it up once, and they're annoying picky. ;) I did grow up along the US/Canadian border, so I've always wondered if I could get some kind of citizenship via proximity or something, lol. I mean, northern Minnesota is practically part of Canada anyway.

 

That pretty much describes every country but the US. We even have a statue welcoming anyone and everyone. This country is kind of unique that way.

 

Maybe it's just too darn cold in Canada for them to go out and about looking for trouble much ( :eek: -----> frozen blue guy).

[Spy Car]

 

I would think that one of the myths Rosie was referring to might be that Americans have some sort of god given right

 

I think it is fairly common that Americans have a sense of Natural Rights that comes out of Enlightenment thinking, and was expressed in our Declaration of Independence. The author, Thomas Jefferson—as a Deist, like many of the leading lights of American intellectuals who have philosophical perspective to our founding and thereby to our national mythology, had a very different conception of "God" than contemporary Christians, and particularly fundamentalists.

 

These Enlightenment thinkers believed in inalienable rights, that were by the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God. This belief that people have basic inalienable beliefs is widespread across American culture, but may vary widely when it comes to the role of a "creator" and the nature of that creator, and/or belief in a creator. The creator in Deist belief was not an interventionist god. Many Americans today have very different feeling on the nature of God than Thomas Jefferson did, but the belief in inalienable rights persists across the wide array of belief and non-belief in the nature of the divine and creation mythology.

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

I think it has something to do with how we separate and segregate the family as early as possible and as much as possible at every level of society, but that's just a theory.

 

Definitely not the whole story, since we do the same over here. But I do think it is a contributing factor, particularly when combined with high population density and a child focused society. I'm here on a homechool board because I believe it appropriate to focus on my children, but I'm talking about the difference between "How dare you suggest my child did anything in the least bit naughty! He's a perfect angel about to be canonized!" (Or the less polite version of "I don't care if my kid beats the crap out of yours so * off,") and, as it was in my small community as a kid, whereby if I was five minutes late home, my mother would already know why because someone else's mum would have dobbed me in.

 

 

Rosie you are a very brave person.

 

Hardly. I didn't list them. :p And it's the same here. We've got a bunch of outdated national myths too and it's about time we rewrote them to something healthier.

 

I don't know what myths those are, but nothing influences everyone.

 

Just saying, I do not want to be lumped into that club.

 

Then I'm sure it is best you and I don't talk about it.

 

Is the acceptance of the individual better in other countries?

 

I think we care less about whether people/ the world likes us.

[KungFuPanda]

I also don't know anyone who owns a gun, or at least who speaks about it. Aside from police officers and those in the armed forces, of course. I am an American, and, no, I don't think it is unusual or rare.

 

 

I think that when people say "The U.S. ____________" they are really saying that they just dont get how large and diverse of a country it is. Different parts of the country are SO VERY different that it's impossible to say "The U.S. ________" about ANYTHING. I don't think it's at all strange that you don't know any gun-owners, but I live in a very blue state. Maybe another American would find this unusual?

 

I'm guessing (someone else can check) that there are more drug problems in the U.S. than Canada and those are ALL illegal.

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

Duplicate

[justamouse]

Not keeping assault rifles in the homes of mentally ill people might help deter them. Having background checks that make it impossible to purchase weapons legally might deter them. Having treatment centers for violent people with mental illness might both help and deter them. There are positive things that could help.

 

Bill

 

 

OK, I'm not disagreeing with you, but here's a question--

 

Say a person has been on antidepressants. Are they automatically cut from the gun club? Only if they were on them for 6 months? Or, should you make it like antidepressants and mood stabilizers? See what I mean?

 

I'm asking honestly. Isn't this exactly why the ACLU fought so hard to deinstitutionalize asylums--that it took freedoms away? So then whose rights get cut to own a gun, how many years of mental health records are required to prove emotional stability for owning one? The HIPPA laws?

[Parrothead]

I don't know what myths those are, but nothing influences everyone.

 

Just saying, I do not want to be lumped into that club.

The one that makes me crazy is the one were we are all walking around in Stetsons and cowboy boots.

[Rosie_0801]

Ack come on Rosie...I don't know what you mean!

 

You can talk to me about it.

 

You categorically rejected something you have no understanding of, and are now telling me we can talk about it. I'm afraid that makes it very difficult for me to know where to go with the conversation.

[swellmomma]

I bet if you took out gang and drug (dealing) related violence the rates of violence between the two countries wouldn't be too far apart. Remember that a lot of the "kids killed by guns" in the US are teenage gangbangers.

 

There was a horrific mass shooting at a montreal school some time ago... female engineering students were lined up and shot? I can't remember the details.

 

 

There is a huge difference in school shootings even if you take out the other kid deaths. That montreal shooting was in 1989 so 23 years ago, 14 dead, but they were all adults since it was a college. The high school shooting in taber that killed 1 was 8 days after Columbine in '99.

 

Almost ALL school shootings in Canada occur in colleges/universities not grade schools or high schools. These is a huge difference. And when there is a school shooting the number of casualties is much lower. Taber school was a copycat of columbine but the shooter only shot at 3 people, 1 died 1 injured, and 1 missed before the gym teacher wrestled him to the ground and stopped the attack. (Aside from happening in my province, my mother runs Alberta Wrestling, so that coach was someone that she knew well and that I had met in passing at functions so that case was a huge deal).

[ktgrok]

 

I don't know anyone who owns a gun. Well at least not a single person in my family does. There may be someone who owns one who I don't know that intimately. It's not one of those questions that usually comes up.

 

 

How would you know? I am fairly sure my family doesn't know I own a gun. No need for them to know, and they've never asked.

[swellmomma]

The one that makes me crazy is the one were we are all walking around in Stetsons and cowboy boots.

 

No that is Calgarians

[goldberry]

 

The US has a few national myths. Not everyone subscribes to them, but national myths provide a foundation that influences everyone. Those myths lie over the top of all those individual subcultures.

 

Wow, what a thought-provoking statement. I'm going to chew on that while!

[ktgrok]

I don't know the statistics, but I doubt most gun crimes are committed by the mentally ill. Gang-related shootings, armed robbery, and domestic violence have to be far more common than random murders. When you combine those things with gun access, you get the high gun crime.

 

I do think Americans are desensitized to the gun violence. There were two cases locally where the father murdered the wife and children. One was a shooting, the other the family was strangled with straw bale ties. The strangulation case received way more media attention than the shooting. And when you have 150 homicides a year in one city, and 120 of them are 2:00AM shootings in "bad neighborhoods", the news stops reporting those beyond a blurb in the police blotter.

 

 

I think those kinds of shootings are where a better safety net would come into play. I would think that having the security of knowing you will have food on the table and medical care might mean you are less likely to join a gang or rob someone. And mental health access would help with domestic violence.

[LizzyBee]

I was always taught that the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy?

 

A republic is a representative democracy. The US is both a democracy and a republic.

[DarlaS]

 

LOL

 

But you have to be kinda kidding. We went through the immigration process here in the US. There was nothing easy about it.

 

I'm sure it's much harder than it used to be (and fwiw, I did not use the word "easy"). But there IS an immigration process--and that statue does have that little poem on it. They just left off the part about all the paperwork and jumping through hoops...

 

Many countries just do not welcome immigrants at all. You go to Poland (to give one example) and you know what you find? Polish people. Homogeneous societies are the norm in much of the world.

[Parrothead]

No that is Calgarians

Are they fat and loud too? :laugh:

And rich. Let's not forget how rich we are all supposed to be. :glare:

[LizzyBee]

That pretty much describes every country but the US. We even have a statue welcoming anyone and everyone. This country is kind of unique that way.

 

Maybe it's just too darn cold in Canada for them to go out and about looking for trouble much ( :eek: -----> frozen blue guy).

 

Ha, actually there is some truth to that. I once read some statistics about crime in the US. The crime rate is generally lower in colder areas, and there are spikes on hot days and during heat waves.

[Spy Car]

 

 

 

OK, I'm not disagreeing with you, but here's a question--

 

Say a person has been on antidepressants. Are they automatically cut from the gun club? Only if they were on them for 6 months? Or, should you make it like antidepressants and mood stabilizers? See what I mean?

 

Yes, I do see what you mean. I fully acknowledge that determining who should be restricted from gun ownership is a question fraught with difficulties as well as potential conflicts with civil rights. The question would have to be pondered with appropriate seriousness, and might even prove untenable in all but the most extreme cases. At the end-of-the-day I think we could establish a pretty high bar with a standard along the lines of limiting weapons to those who present an imminent danger to society. Even that would not be easy in practice. I take your point.

 

I'm asking honestly. Isn't this exactly why the ACLU fought so hard to deinstitutionalize asylums--that it took freedoms away?

 

Shutting down the asylums was the act of another, not the ACLU, but I don't want to be accused of partisan politics, so I will leave it at that.

 

The ACLU, however, might very well contest limits on banning gun purchases to the mentally ill, as this is their role as a defender of civil liberties.

 

So then whose rights get cut to own a gun, how many years of mental health records are required to prove emotional stability for owning one? The HIPPA laws?

 

All very reasonable questions. I would think it would be limited to those who are determined by medical experts (with right of review) with judicial approval and review whose mental illness makes them an immanent threat to society. I do not deny for a moment that this would be "easy," nor would I want room for over-reach on the part of the government.

 

You are asking the right questions.

 

Bill

[lea1]

Rights given by the government can be taken away by the government.

 

There are certain rights in America considered God given (They are rights every human being has, from a power higher than the government) -- and no legitimate government should ever take them away from you. That it is a sign of a illegitimate government when they try to take these rights away. The list starts with life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.

 

The right to bear arms is not one of them.

 

The right to bear arms IS in our Constitution, so there is a higher bar to removing that right than the government deciding to pass a law. There is a specific method put forward in the Constitution to change it.

 

Although the right to bear arms is not one of them, as you said above, the right to life is. Many in the U.S. believe that it is their right to protect their own life and they need a gun to do so.

 

This article explains how many in the U.S. feel about guns and their right and responsiblity to protect their life and the lives of their loved ones:

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=215107

[Guest inoubliable]

 

Although the right to bear arms is not one of them, as you said above, the right to life is. Many in the U.S. believe that it is their right to protect their own life and they need a gun to do so.

 

This article explains how many in the U.S. feel about guns and their right and responsiblity to protect their life and the lives of their loved ones:

http://market-ticker...www?post=215107

 

:glare: I'm sorry, but the author of that article sounded positively unhinged.

[Spy Car]

 

 

:glare: I'm sorry, but the author of that article sounded positively unhinged.

 

I agree.

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

Wow, what a thought-provoking statement. I'm going to chew on that while!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Hunger-Integrating-Ritual-Daily/dp/1844095606

 

See if you can get a copy of this. From memory he's a Brit who has lived in America for twenty years. I found it a fun combination of the Commonwealth way of thinking (which is not to say all Commonwealth countries have identical cultures) and the Americanness I've been splashing in here for the last six years or so.

 

 

Sorry. What myths are these? Why be so cryptic? It only lets me guess what you mean with that. Apparently I guessed wrong?

 

I wouldn't have a clue whether you guessed wrong because you haven't said what you thought you were being "accused" of, only that you didn't appreciate it.

 

Why be cryptic? Firstly, I'm dealing with Americans here! I've had pm's from people on here, wounded to their very souls because I, I dunno, am not a patriotic American, I suppose. Secondly, no one likes to be analysed in public, particularly by people they don't trust to have a proper perspective. Thirdly, I have not written a coherent thesis on the topic and nationalism is too important to be half arsedly pontificating about. Commenting about, conversing about, sure, but not pontificating. Really, when it comes to national myths, I think it a more proper procedure to discuss such things with your own countrymen before inviting commentary from outside. If it's something you want to discuss, start a thread and send a special shout out to your American expats. Hash it out and see what comes up, then start another thread about educating your kids in civics based on whatever nuggets of substance you find. The rest of the world will be happy to weigh in if asked. It's not like we don't have our own versions of these problems.

[KungFuPanda]

There is a huge difference in school shootings even if you take out the other kid deaths. That montreal shooting was in 1989 so 23 years ago, 14 dead, but they were all adults since it was a college. The high school shooting in taber that killed 1 was 8 days after Columbine in '99.

Almost ALL school shootings in Canada occur in colleges/universities not grade schools or high schools. These is a huge difference. And when there is a school shooting the number of casualties is much lower. Taber school was a copycat of columbine but the shooter only shot at 3 people, 1 died 1 injured, and 1 missed before the gym teacher wrestled him to the ground and stopped the attack. (Aside from happening in my province, my mother runs Alberta Wrestling, so that coach was someone that she knew well and that I had met in passing at functions so that case was a huge deal).

 

So what would the typical elementary staff DO, that is so uniquely Canadian, that would save more children if a crazed gunman walked in? It may be harder to get a gun, but one determined person could make it happen. It 'could' happen anywhere.

 

I don't know why people think it's OK to say Americans are desensitized to gun violence? Do you KNOW anyone who is OK with it? Who wouldn't be as shocked as possible if something like this happened in their neighborhood? We are not less horrified by the current events because we're Americans. We're more horrified because it happened here.

 

It's a problem because even one school shooting is too many. Statistically, though, is this really a 'trend' or are we all just very upset right now?

[justLisa]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but that sounds kind of American bashing. I don't know why that is necessary. And no one should be bashing anyone's country. Or anyone for that matter. It's a bit hostile in this thread. I think I need a dictionary to understand that entire post.

[Cindy in the NH Woods]

I've seen & heard lots of heated discussion about the pros/cons of gun control in the US.

 

But what I just don't understand is why Canada has a significantly lower rate of gun violence/deaths vs. USA?

We have a similar demographic profile

 

Hi~ did the statistics you mention compare numbers based strictly on the number of deaths per nation, per capita, per one thousand people, etc.? This basis of comparison is important to know, as the USA has almost ten times the population of Canada. ( Population of USA: 314,976,056 vs. Population of Canada: 33,476,688)

 

Thanks!

[justLisa]

So what would the typical elementary staff DO, that is so uniquely Canadian, that would save more children if a crazed gunman walked in? It may be harder to get a gun, but one determined person could make it happen. It 'could' happen anywhere.

 

I don't know why people think it's OK to say Americans are desensitized to gun violence? Do you KNOW anyone who is OK with it? Who wouldn't be as shocked as possible if something like this happened in their neighborhood? We are not less horrified by the current events because we're Americans. We're more horrified because it happened here.

 

It's a problem because even one school shooting is too many. Statistically, though, is this really a 'trend' or are we all just very upset right now?

 

 

I feel the same way

[elegantlion]

So what would the typical elementary staff DO, that is so uniquely Canadian, that would save more children if a crazed gunman walked in? It may be harder to get a gun, but one determined person could make it happen. It 'could' happen anywhere.

 

I don't know why people think it's OK to say Americans are desensitized to gun violence? Do you KNOW anyone who is OK with it? Who wouldn't be as shocked as possible if something like this happened in their neighborhood? We are not less horrified by the current events because we're Americans. We're more horrified because it happened here.

 

It's a problem because even one school shooting is too many. Statistically, though, is this really a 'trend' or are we all just very upset right now?

 

I agree. I don't think Americans are naive about violence, but we are not desensitized to it. These situations can happen anywhere in the world, all it takes is one crazed person with ill intent. One of my dear friends was at the mall in CA this week where the man shot off his gun in the parking lot. Even though she was in no danger, she was freaked out. The event was not normal.

[Lanny]

First, Canada has a much smaller population and probably fewer people there have guns. Secondly, possibly Canada (or the individual Provinces) has a Mental Health System operating, where people who are dangerous to others can be kept in mental hospitals. That system was in place in the USA, until approximately 50 or 60 years ago, and was dismantled, because it is not "politically correct" and also because it is expensive to operate. Nobody wants to pay for expensive programs that are ongoing.

 

Guns are not the only way to kill people, but they are the easiest way. Someone in Germany recently killed a bunch of children using a blow torch? A car can be used as a weapon.

 

Sadly, there are probably millions of people in the USA who should be in mental hospitals, but who are on the street every day. They are time bombs, waiting to go off.

 

The problem is not guns. The problem is the lack of a mental health system in the USA.

 

BTW, I remember, years ago, going through Canadian Immigration to cross into Ontario to visit a friend there. . My car had Texas license plates. It took me awhile to convince the Border official that I did not have a gun in the car. The dog in the car was not a problem, but he assumed anyone from Texas would have a gun with them. Mine was in my home, in Texas.

[swellmomma]

So what would the typical elementary staff DO, that is so uniquely Canadian, that would save more children if a crazed gunman walked in? It may be harder to get a gun, but one determined person could make it happen. It 'could' happen anywhere.

 

I don't know why people think it's OK to say Americans are desensitized to gun violence? Do you KNOW anyone who is OK with it? Who wouldn't be as shocked as possible if something like this happened in their neighborhood? We are not less horrified by the current events because we're Americans. We're more horrified because it happened here.

 

It's a problem because even one school shooting is too many. Statistically, though, is this really a 'trend' or are we all just very upset right now?

 

I posted in the security thread about what the schools here do. Do I think those things are uniquely Canadian? nope, but despite the fact that the last school shooting(not college shooting) was 13 years ago, every grade in all the schools in at least the 3 districts we have lived in/dealt with have done lock down drills every 8 weeks or so. They have plans in place and follow them in the drill as if a gunman came in with the singular goal of stopping him/her as quickly as possible and protect the kids. In my tiny town of 750 where no one does anything without anyone else knowing it they even run these drills just in case.

 

I have never claimed it could not happen in other places, no one in this thread has. We have all said though that limited access to guns reduces the risk of that happening.

[justLisa]

I posted in the security thread about what the schools here do. Do I think those things are uniquely Canadian? nope, but despite the fact that the last school shooting(not college shooting) was 13 years ago, every grade in all the schools in at least the 3 districts we have lived in/dealt with have done lock down drills every 8 weeks or so. They have plans in place and follow them in the drill as if a gunman came in with the singular goal of stopping him/her as quickly as possible and protect the kids. In my tiny town of 750 where no one does anything without anyone else knowing it they even run these drills just in case.

 

I have never claimed it could not happen in other places, no one in this thread has. We have all said though that limited access to guns reduces the risk of that happening.

 

I wonder if they do that here?

 

I have been out of the public school system since *I* was in school so I don't know. It surely would make sense. Hell they have earthquake drills and we have never had one here in recent history

[Joker]

Lock down drills definitely aren't just a Canadian thing. I don't know any school here that doesn't do those same drills. Sandy Hook followed their lock down procedure and 20 kids still died. Practicing those drills doesn't really do anything once a gunman gets inside. He either takes his own life before killing everyone or the police get him first.

 

I would like to see the violence statistics as well that take into account the differing population sizes.

[WishboneDawn]

 

Sorry, that's not true. Not everyone thinks like that.

 

Yes, Rosie said that. But she also said that despite that, everyone was influenced by it and I think that's a fair statement. There are certain national myths I don't think much of as a Canadian but they still influence my experience and life as a Canadian.

[swellmomma]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but that sounds kind of American bashing. I don't know why that is necessary. And no one should be bashing anyone's country. Or anyone for that matter. It's a bit hostile in this thread. I think I need a dictionary to understand that entire post.

 

You ARE reading it wrong. There is no american bashing, we are discussing what makes the 2 countries so different in this regard when otherwise they are very much teh same and has included other countries too. We have discussed the mental health differences, gun control, the constition, forms of gov't, immigration, and Calgarians. I have not seen any bashing at all. Now of course it was pointed out in one response that some american members will be upset by anything posted negatively about their country, but that is not bashing. That is fact. The vast majority of americans even when very patriotic admit there is broken parts of the system that need to be fixed. If you do not discuss them then how do you flesh out a plan to fix them? There is merit in looking at how other countries do things, particularily when they share a border and in many many ways are the same.

[justLisa]

You ARE reading it wrong. There is no american bashing, we are discussing what makes the 2 countries so different in this regard when otherwise they are very much teh same and has included other countries too. We have discussed the mental health differences, gun control, the constition, forms of gov't, immigration, and Calgarians. I have not seen any bashing at all. Now of course it was pointed out in one response that some american members will be upset by anything posted negatively about their country, but that is not bashing. That is fact. The vast majority of americans even when very patriotic admit there is broken parts of the system that need to be fixed. If you do not discuss them then how do you flesh out a plan to fix them? There is merit in looking at how other countries do things, particularily when they share a border and in many many ways are the same.

 

 

No I meant one post not the entire point of the thread

[Cindy in the NH Woods]

Also, the US has approximately 310 million people, Canada 35 million. If I do the math that is the equivalent of 280 school deaths (multiplying out by 10). Did I do that correctly?

 

 

 

This is how I was thinking. Also, I believe the first terrible incident of 45 killed in Bath, MI was due to a bomb and not guns. So many variables....

:(

[BarbecueMom]

 

 

So what would the typical elementary staff DO, that is so uniquely Canadian, that would save more children if a crazed gunman walked in? It may be harder to get a gun, but one determined person could make it happen. It 'could' happen anywhere.

 

I don't know why people think it's OK to say Americans are desensitized to gun violence? Do you KNOW anyone who is OK with it? Who wouldn't be as shocked as possible if something like this happened in their neighborhood? We are not less horrified by the current events because we're Americans. We're more horrified because it happened here.

 

It's a problem because even one school shooting is too many. Statistically, though, is this really a 'trend' or are we all just very upset right now?

 

 

I don't know anyone that's not horrified by the Sandy Hook shooting. But there have been 109 homicides in St. Louis City alone this year, most of them shooting deaths. I would say probably 110 by morning, but the weather is bad. That doesn't include any suburban violence, and there's many more homicides there. While I've been tracking the news from the school shooting, I don't even read the articles titled "Man found shot in north city neighborhood" anymore. It doesn't shock or phase because it's common. Is it terrible and tragic? Yes. I still think most people are desensitized to it, especially in urban areas, because it's always happening. It doesn't make it right, it just is what it is.

 

ETA: The population of St. Louis City proper is only 318,000.