I know virtual schools have been discussed before, but help me with some perspective?

[Melissa B]

In Florida, both homeschoolers and public schoolers can use the public virtual school for as many or as few classes as they like. The homeschoolers are still homeschoolers and listed as such with the state and the public schoolers are still public schoolers. Perhaps she is a homeschooler using the virtual school.

[shinyhappypeople]

Child does not go to brick and mortar school.

Child studies at home, overseen by parent.

 

I don't get what's so hard about this. It's schooling at home, so it's homeschooling.

 

You have to go clear 'round the barn and gather a troop of naysayers to really pull together a reason to dislike these families. Usually it seems to be instigated by HSLDA through fear-mongering.

 

Why let others convince you (general you) to see anyone as an enemy? Why let someone else lead you in seeing them as imposters or threats?

 

Surely nobody knows better than a homeschooler how different children and families are in the time that the child is learning at home instead of going away to school every day. I don't see any reason for withholding support other than meanness.

 

Um, Tibbie, I totally have a forum crush on you. WELL SAID.

[Halftime Hope]

I honestly don't think your 'integrity of a definition' argument holds water. If you like, you can call yourself an independent homeschooler, as opposed to a homeschooler using a charter. I think that's perfectly valid.

 

So, do we have to add a qualifier in front of natural childbirth to make sure people really know what we mean, when it wasn't the folks who had been using those words for a generation that changed the definition?

 

really natural childbirth? low-intervention natural childbirth?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Tibbie, if you read my posts on this, you will see that while I am feeling some emotion on this, I am not being mean or withholding support. In fact, the opposite is true. I am conflicted, but it is something that I have not chosen to make known.

 

This is more information than what I shared in the beginning, but my middle child, who is now a young adult and is closer to the family, has been a role model and a generous, loving mentor for the child in this family.

 

I'm so sorry, Valerie, I should have been more clear in that part of my post. I wasn't assuming that you had behaved unkindly to anyone, I was thinking of the people who shun them out of support groups and playgroups and wage the big public battles that are so painful for parents who are supervising their child's education at home. I do think they are mean, and I think the efforts by groups to sway others to behave the same are mean. I did catch that you were conflicted and working through this, not a hardened warrior against others.

 

I am typing with a newly broken finger and finding that the usual connection between my thoughts and my posts is...hampered. Thanks for giving me the chance to clarify.

[KnitWit]

If she's going to be working full time, even from home, I am SURE she's hoping she has chosen something that will allow her child to progress as she needs to and not be hampered by moms unavailability. Good for her for seeing the need to find that. I know some homeschool moms who have HAD to go back to work but are stuck to that *Holy Grail* definition of homeschooling and frankly, their children are getting the short end of the stick.

 

I fully support families who choose to do what is best for THEIR family.

[Ellie]

To me it's still homeschooling. A different form than the one you chose, for sure, but homeschooling nonetheless. You still have the kid home with you all day, you still have to butt heads to make sure the work gets done, you still have to worry about the field trips and "socialization" issues, your whole life and approach to education have changed, etc. I consider unschoolers and relaxed homeschoolers to homeschooling too, and IMO, what your friend is doing is not much different.

There are legal ramifications that make the difference between homeschooling and public-school-at-home. Practically, although the children are at home and so you're homeschooling, legally, the children are public students, not homeschooled (or private schooled, depending on your state).

 

This is a conversation that has been going on for well over 25 years in California. It is almost impossible to give a complete background on why it's important to know the difference to folks who haven't been involved in it for those 25 years.

[elegantlion]

Perhaps it is in the expectations she has about the virtual school. I looked into it and the freedom I would give up doesn't make that an option for us. However, I have no issue with those utilizing a VA calling themselves homeschoolers. Are those using Abeka or BJU academies homeschoolers? Just because they pay for those, they are still overseen by the schools to some extent.

 

Is she coming across as this is so easy, I just sit them down at the computer and bam! they're educated, all while I continue to work full time.

 

Maybe she has an easy child that just magically works on their own and progresses without her involvement. I think that would be rare.

 

Maybe she is so unsure about her decision to homeschool at all that she says these things to ward off unsettling relatives or her own fears.

 

I've homeschooled in two states. In the other one I was technically an "unregulated private school". I still considered myself a homeschooler.

 

I think VA fall under the larger category of the Homeschooling tree, it's just a different branch.

[Incognito]

It seems like your issue/struggle is that her cavalier attitude about her involvement de-values your personal investment in homeschooling. Well, it doesn't really, it is just how it makes you feel.

 

It's a bit like why I don't like cheap universal childcare. Not because it isn't a good thing for a lot of people, but because it reduces the value of my investment of time and energy in staying at home with my children during their baby/preschool years. But it doesn't really reduce the value of what I have done, it just feels like its value is reduced in the lens of society. I have to just look at my own investment and realize that it is worthwhile and not worry about how others choose to spend their time and money.

[justLisa]

So, do we have to add a qualifier in front of natural childbirth to make sure people really know what we mean, when it wasn't the folks who had been using those words for a generation that changed the definition?

 

really natural childbirth? low-intervention natural childbirth?

 

This is not about childbirth or HSing. This is about you needing a word for what you are doing.

 

Have confidence in YOURSELF and what YOU do. You do not need a word.

[melissad2]

I guess I don't get why YOU care so much what other people do and what they call themselves?

[KnitWit]

In regards to the childbirth thing... on that I feel that we need to be supportive of birth that ends with a healthy child and mother. I have had three completely drug free *natural* births, two of which were at home. These came on the heels of three c-sections. All six births resulted in the safe birth of a healthy child and left me a healthy mom able to care for my children.

 

The point is...it's the *birth* that counts. :) My three c-section children are no less *born* or no less *human* than the three *natural* birth children. See my point?

 

Now, granted, there are all kinds of issues with all types of births, but that all becomes anecdotal because every person is different. I cannot judge whether someones choice was frivolous, or not. Why busy myself with that? I choose to believe that they made the best choice for them and their child.

 

Sometimes, we really want to make more of our personal choices than they are...just CHOICES. In doing so, we completely get the accent on the wrong syllable.

[Scarlett]

Is it the amount of work involved? The parents in question seems to think that it will require little involvement on their part--which makes me feel like it really is different than homeschooling.

 

I don't know. I'm trying to boil this down to the real issues.

 

Valerie I think it is just like any other parenting role....some of us give our kids baths everynight, others once a week! Some parents let their kids go to sleepovers with friends, others don't. There are a million issues where we could say, 'How can that parent do so little in that area?'

 

I think it is the same with this issue with you.

[the4Rs]

I still think it is homeschooling. I guess I see it more as she is "homeschooling" and you are "home educating." She is doing school at home and you are educating your kids at home....

 

But I don't see the reason to get upset about it. Every family must find what works for them and it won't look the same for all of us. Every family has different reasons for homeschooling too so take that into consideration. Just let it go. Life's too short to get upset about what other people call themselves.

[snowbeltmom]

Second, it is the family's expectation, stated publicly, that they are minimally involved. I should have spelled it out more clearlly when I stated that the parent at home intends to continue to work full time from home, but that is the least of the comments that have been made indicating a level of parental involvement different from what you and I expect.

 

Is it possible that your reaction is due more to the fact that the mom is declaring that "the homeschooling" is so easy that she is able to continue with her full-time job, while for most of us, homeschooling is more than a full-time job?

 

Would you have had less of an emotional reaction if the family would have stated that the "homeschooling" required more parental involvement than they expected?

[magnificent_baby]

I guess I don't get why YOU care so much what other people do and what they call themselves?

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Halftime Hope]

I think that "homeschooling" is a general term for any child who is educated at home and is not enrolled in a classroom-based school. <<snip>>

 

 

The people who began or were early adopters of homeschooling or who unwittingly began a movement saw it as being a parental choice-, parental goal-driven distinction, religious or not. (I know people who home educated a generation ago, people who homeschooled from both liberal (hippie) and conservative (fundamentalist) perspectives. It was not merely about where education was located. That seems to be a current definition in this thread.

 

Exclusionary definitions of "homeschooling" as only private homeschools reminds me very much of definitions of "Christian" that purposely exclude certain denominations. :thumbdown:

 

I'm teaching logic to eighth graders right now. It is very important to know what the dividing principle is when categorizing, and then, ultimately deciding whether the dividing principle as a valid one.

 

I am unsympathetic to some groups, particularly groups established in recent history by a single charismatic leader, a thousand years after orthodox doctrines were hammered out, debated, and prayed over by the collective Church Fathers. These groups who would like to be accepted within Christendom, yet they refuse to accept foundational doctrinal tenets that distinguish Christians from cults. But I don't know if that is what you are referring to or not.

 

If so, it's a similar issue: a new kid on the block wanting to appropriate the old name. But now I'm repeating myself.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful input on this.

[ktgrok]

I think this is the heart of the matter, but it's not about me calling myself something and the acquaintance choosing the same label, it's about 1) changing definitions, and 2)whether there is integrity in a definition.

 

I can think of all kinds of situations in which it is appropriate to protect time-honored definitions of terms. Although this is certainly one of them--people who have be fighting for and defending homeschooling freedoms at the state level are concerned about precedent and state-control issues--I don't feel called to that fight above honoring the good faith of my acquaintance.

 

But, what definition is she changing? To me, the definition of homeschooling is to do school at home. She is doing that.

[gardening momma]

I think the reason it annoys me is that I put so much more work into planning, teaching, and taking responsibility for assessing, grading, correcting, that it annoys me to have someone else call what they are doing homeschooling when it is not parent-led, not parent-provided, and requires so much less responsibililty and effort.

Huh. I don't plan or grade. Does that make me less of a homeschooler? Less than you, apparently.

[stephencurtisjoelle]

Words hold meaning. I think perhaps the op is uncomfortable with exactly has happened to the word "homeschooling" and how broad the definition has become.

 

For example, I could say that I "use a classical method" to homeschool but if I only gave my child twaddle to read and never used a history program, I would assume that those who do actually use a classical method would not like me putting an association with the term that is not entirely correct. In my mind I may think what I am doing is "classical" but clearly it is not. But don't I have the right to call what I do at home whatever I want?

 

It just muddies the water.

 

A public school student is a public school student whether at home or at school. I think either option is fine.

 

A "homeschooler" is not public. A person "doing school at home" may be or may not be.

 

Homeschooling is a word that those who follow the "traditonal" method of doing school at home desire to keep to define themselves.

 

For clarification, it does not matter to me how folks choose to educate their children. Each family is unique and what works for one may not work for another. I think charter schools are an excellent option for many who may not be able to afford curriculum or for whatever other reason it just works better for their family.

[gardening momma]

20-30 years ago a lot of homeschoolers really did try to do school at home--I know a family who had a room with school desks and an American flag at the front of the room. Pledge in the morning and teaching from the front of the room. Homeschooling today looks much different, in most cases. Yet they were doing school at home. Was that not homeschooling? If someone is doing [virtual] public school at home, it looks very different from that family did, and could be different from what I do. What if we use mostly the computer and TV to homeschool? What if we pay for K12 ourselves and don't go through the school? Does that count as a homeschool now?

[ondreeuh]

May I gently say that what she decides to call it is really no reflection on you. You are taking this personally, but it's really not. It doesn't diminish or in any way take away from the work you do with your child. Obviously, if she was lobbying for regulatory changes that require "homeschooling" to be through a VA or something, then that would be different. But she's calling her version of school-at-home "homeschooling" and the only people who would be confused by that have opinions who don't matter. Just keep doing what you want to do with your kids. If someone challenges you, set them straight. But don't go on the offensive now.

[Crimson Wife]

I am unsympathetic to some groups, particularly groups established in recent history by a single charismatic leader, a thousand years after orthodox doctrines were hammered out, debated, and prayed over by the collective Church Fathers. These groups who would like to be accepted within Christendom, yet they refuse to accept foundational doctrinal tenets that distinguish Christians from cults. But I don't know if that is what you are referring to or not.

 

No, I'm talking about the original Christian churches (both Western and Eastern) that certain other denominations who split off 13+ centuries later would now like to redefine out of Christendom. :glare:

[ondreeuh]

I am struggling to be charitable towards this attitude that the only families that have the right to call themselves homeschoolers are the ones that do it a certain way. This will be my first year homeschooling my daughter. I opted to use a state-funded charter school. Why? 1. It provides me with the structure and accountability I need, as I have ADHD and it can be difficult for me to maintain focus on a long-term project. Each month I will be required to submit a form summarizing how we met the learning objectives. There will also be state mandated testing we have to do. This will help me stay on task. 2. There is a nice stipend provided to purchase curriculum, subscriptions, and fund activities. They also provide a computer/printer and subsidize internet. I like to think of these funds as a tax return, since it totals about what I pay into the state for income taxes.

 

 

I use the same type of program, and I absolutely consider myself a homeschooler. The regulations I must follow (monthly check-in, quarterly progress report, yearly portfolio, and yearly benchmark test) are less than some states require for unaffiliated homeschoolers. The program I use doesn't even distinguish - it is a homeschool support program, not a "charter school" or "independent study option." Their mission is to help homeschoolers through providing financial help and mentoring, and the field reps are all experienced homeschoolers themselves.

[Crimson Wife]

From a legal standpoint, I would like to see the term "homeschooling" out of laws & regulations and just have all students be considered as either private school or public school students. Certainly there should be exemptions granted to single-family private schools from certain private school regulations only relevant to traditional classroom-based private schools. But I think the whole controversy would be way less heated if there were 2 legal categories of schools in the government eyes rather than 3.

[Halftime Hope]

Okay, genuine question, no snarkiness intended...

 

Valerie, WHY do you feel conflicted? What is at the root of this? Are you not going to still do what you do for your kids? Will her choices for her family affect you in any way?

 

 

No, I'm feeling conflicted because this is the first time I've seen someone call the public-school virtual school "homeschooling." My friend who homeschooled and now is using the virtual school has always said (for whatever reasons; it never occurrred to me to ask) that her son is doing public school at home. To her, like to me, they are different.

 

Another part of the conflict is that I don't feel I should really care, other than for the legal reasons Ellie mentioned--they are valid--and yet, for some stupid reason, I do care.

 

It's almost as if I've invested all this time and effort and years of my life, at such great cost, and I'm (mostly) happy with what we've done and the choices we've made. By God's grace, I have the fruit to show for it. Yet it feels like it diminishes what we've done when someone else takes that label and applies it to something that is directed and planned and provided for by the public schools. To me, all the effort and sacrifice and commitment and the carried responsibility are implied in the name, not to mention the many nights I've been up at 2 a.m. praying for wisdom. Then when families who are using the public school's scope & sequence, lessons, tutors and lecturers at high school levels, and yes, the free resources in their home, take that name for themselves, it rankles a bit. To us it has always involved so much more: along with the independence of being a homeschooler came the responsibility, the sacrifice, and the risk.

 

I know expressingly this publicly is really baring my heart, and I ask for continued civility.

 

I feel a bit like one of the news stories in which corporations feel the need to defend their brand. : )

 

Yup, I think I'm getting to the bottom of it.

 

Note: to those of you who are shouldering all the work of teaching littles, and doing all the virtual public school red-tape on top of it, my heart goes out to you. I'm so sorry.

[Halftime Hope]

Huh. I don't plan or grade. Does that make me less of a homeschooler? Less than you, apparently.

 

Hey, you know, I've been very civil in this conversation. I'd appreciate the same.

 

I didn't plan much or grade when my kids were the ages of yours. We did correct, a lot. Other than that, we did well to get through the day.

 

Things change as they get older; I'm coming from the perspective of one whose last student is a senior, so it is differnet from this perspective.

 

You may be perfectly comfortable with simply turning to the next page of the book; I certainly have and do in some subjects. Other areas of study require tremendous amounts of study and planning, especially as they get older. (Everyone's MMV.)

 

Grades--you'll have a hard time getting kids into most colleges without even basic record keeping. How detailed you want that to be is up to you. We're mere mortals in my household, so we've learned that we have to assess and keep grades.

[ktgrok]

I REALLY think you have a biased idea of what virtual schools look like when you do them at home. My friend is using the public charter virtual for her kindergarten student. She spends HOURS a day doing the hands on teaching, etc. It isn't like she can hand him a book and walk away. It looks EXACTLY the same as if she used that same curriculum, but paid for it herself. She certainly does question if this is the right way to teach him, worries, etc.

[Halftime Hope]

But don't go on the offensive now.

 

No danger of that. It would be way outside my comfort zone to do so.

I wrote a doozey of a letter to the genuinely offensive realtor, but then I never sent it. It was enough to know that I had spoken my piece.

 

 

Again, just sorting this out.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Valerie(TX)

[elegantlion]

 

Things change as they get older; I'm coming from the perspective of one whose last student is a senior, so it is differnet from this perspective.

 

 

 

I wonder if this is part of it. We just finished our 4th week of high school. I put together most of our subjects and enjoy it. However, I've spent most of the morning working on weekly wrap up activities. This afternoon I have to figure out how to write a test on Japanese because I want to do more than the book suggests. I foresee a lot more Saturday work days because of the way *I* want to approach high school.

 

However, I also have friends that open the book and just do the next thing. They have different educational goals that I do, but they don't irritate me.

[LisaKinVA]

To the OP...you aren't alone in how you're feeling, and I do understand how you feel, but I can't really agree with your conclusion.

 

Many of us are up at 2am (although, for me, it's usually 3:30 ;)) praying, crying, asking God to help us make the best decisions for our families. We struggle with curriculum choices, balancing the amount of time we have with the types of programs we would like to employ. We've even done our VA program for 2 years, and honestly my time spent guiding and directing my children was not reduced, simply the prep work (we also had to pay for it, $1000 a year). HOWEVER, I could easily pick up a program from Abeka, BJU, CLASS, Calvert, Covenant, CLE, purchase VP's lesson plans, online-courses and reduce my prep-work that time as well...but no one would consider me *not* being a home school parent if I used any of those options, whereas people would like to flog me for even considering myself a homeschooler using the VA option.

 

We were just apple picking with another VA family we met a couple of years ago, and at the time, the VA was the only way that family could keep their kids home (I hope to show them some other options that will meet their needs, but I definitely get why she feels the way she does...). They made the best decision they could, with the information they had, and their family's lifestyle (both parents work full time, although at least one parent works from home on any given day). I consider them a homeschooling family. I understand the "technical" difference, but practically speaking she's doing more or less the same thing that I am.

[Halftime Hope]

I REALLY think you have a biased idea of what virtual schools look like when you do them at home. My friend is using the public charter virtual for her kindergarten student. She spends HOURS a day doing the hands on teaching, etc. It isn't like she can hand him a book and walk away. It looks EXACTLY the same as if she used that same curriculum, but paid for it herself. She certainly does question if this is the right way to teach him, worries, etc.

 

One of the interesting things that I just remembered was that part of the reason that my dd stood out in her college entrance journey is *because* she was homeschooled. People assumed that she was an interesting, studious, self-motivated, self-disciplined student. Even at the local state uni. And when she opened her mouth, she did not disappoint: smarts, humor, surprising interests, and "normal". :D

 

But there was that assumption, and the track record of previous homeschoolers in the honors programs, in her favor. Ah, well. She is upholding the tradition.

 

Sorry, this had nothing to do with your post.

[Crimson Wife]

Then when families who are using the public school's scope & sequence, lessons, tutors and lecturers at high school levels, and yes, the free resources in their home, take that name for themselves, it rankles a bit. To us it has always involved so much more: along with the independence of being a homeschooler came the responsibility, the sacrifice, and the risk.

 

So how do you feel about private homeschoolers who use Switched-on Schoolhouse or BJU Distance or any of the other programs that are pre-planned?

 

I have to tell you that it would be a LOT easier for me to just file the private school exemption and enroll my kids in one of these programs than to figure out which materials to buy with the charter school stipend, lesson plan, teach, correct, etc.

 

Our independent study teacher mainly serves to order the materials I pick, distribute them to us when they arrive, and review the work samples I select for submission each month. I do sometimes pick her brain for advice on teaching certain things and she has made some good suggestions for classes my kids might like, but she doesn't tell me what to do. Usually she's the one asking me how I like book X or Y because I make some relatively uncommon choices (not necessarily odd by the standards of this board but IRL I'm often the only one I know using a particular program)

[Halftime Hope]

To the OP...you aren't alone in how you're feeling, and I do understand how you feel, but I can't really agree with your conclusion.

 

Many of us are up at 2am (although, for me, it's usually 3:30 ;)) praying, crying, asking God to help us make the best decisions for our families. We struggle with curriculum choices, balancing the amount of time we have with the types of programs we would like to employ. We've even done our VA program for 2 years, and honestly my time spent guiding and directing my children was not reduced, simply the prep work (we also had to pay for it, $1000 a year). HOWEVER, I could easily pick up a program from Abeka, BJU, CLASS, Calvert, Covenant, CLE, purchase VP's lesson plans, online-courses and reduce my prep-work that time as well...but no one would consider me *not* being a home school parent if I used any of those options, whereas people would like to flog me for even considering myself a homeschooler using the VA option.

 

We were just apple picking with another VA family we met a couple of years ago, and at the time, the VA was the only way that family could keep their kids home (I hope to show them some other options that will meet their needs, but I definitely get why she feels the way she does...). They made the best decision they could, with the information they had, and their family's lifestyle (both parents work full time, although at least one parent works from home on any given day). I consider them a homeschooling family. I understand the "technical" difference, but practically speaking she's doing more or less the same thing that I am.

 

You have a point.

 

So then, I really have to ask, who is in charge. Is it the parents, or the school? Clearly the school thinks they are, and from their perspective the parents are agreeing to conform to the school's rules. And the school is the one saying that they issue (guarantee) the student's diploma. Interesting conceptual rub, isn't it?

 

For me, it's my homeschool if I call the shots. It's public-school-at-home if I have to conform to their calling the shots--kind of stinks, since you are saying that all the effort is on me, the parent, either way. The schools certainly view it as public school.

[Crimson Wife]

So then, I really have to ask, who is in charge. Is it the parents, or the school? Clearly the school thinks they are, and from their perspective the parents are agreeing to conform to the school's rules. And the school is the one saying that they issue (guarantee) the student's diploma. Interesting conceptual rub, isn't it?

 

For me, it's my homeschool if I call the shots. It's public-school-at-home if I have to conform to their calling the shots--kind of stinks, since you are saying that all the effort is on me, the parent, either way. The schools certainly view it as public school.

 

One of the options I am considering for my kids' high school is Kolbe Academy. If I want my kids to have their diploma, I have to conform to their requirements. How is that fundamentally any different than if I decide to keep my kids in the virtual charter and have to follow that school's requirements? :confused:

[blondeviolin]

I am torn.

 

My sister has ten kids and has used their state's VA for 10 years now with all of her school-aged kids. She still teaches and instructs the littles, makes sure her olders are in their classes/lectures/whatever. For the simple colloquial conversation, I have no problem referring to this as homeschooling.

 

BUT, when it comes down to it, she still ha to report hours, days, have her kids "in class" and defer to the whim of that public charter. Typically she says they do "school at home."

 

On the flip side, there is a "homeschooling group" on the base here. They advertise themselves as such. They run co-op every T and Th, but it is only available to those who "homeschool" via the state virtual charter. When it comes to that group, I feel like they use the word homeschooling too flippantly. Their facebook group is open to all homeschoolers, but there are SO many VA families that it is run to the exclusion of traditional homeschoolers. In this instance, I wish they would define themselves as a virtual schooling group. I've entertained the idea of making a group for traditional homeschoolers, but I'm betting those who don't fall in that category would call that discriminating.

[magnificent_baby]

You have a point.

 

So then, I really have to ask, who is in charge. Is it the parents, or the school? Clearly the school thinks they are, and from their perspective the parents are agreeing to conform to the school's rules. And the school is the one saying that they issue (guarantee) the student's diploma. Interesting conceptual rub, isn't it?

 

For me, it's my homeschool if I call the shots. It's public-school-at-home if I have to conform to their calling the shots--kind of stinks, since you are saying that all the effort is on me, the parent, either way. The schools certainly view it as public school.

 

But if you are not using a virtual school, I don't think it should bother you.

 

I am trying to be gentle here and not snarky. It seems like you are feeling rather superior and getting your feathers ruffled because of the attitude of 'taking the high road' versus those who choose public school. Now that schooling is available at home, it is crossing into your territory that you feel you have "earned". I can see your point, but it comes off a little snobby, IMO.

 

Times have changed and I think you should try to adjust accordingly. You made decisions based on what is best for your family, as did your friend, regardless of what she chooses to call it.

 

You could always delete her if her posts are bothering you.

 

Being a parent is tough. Educational decisions are tough. I have spent many sleepless nights agonizing on what is best for my kids, as I am sure we all do at times. And I know my friends down the street agonize over the same issues, even if they have chosen another route. Please do not undermine what your friend feels is homeschooling just because you feel you have agonized and sacrificed more than her.

[MomatHWTK]

I have noticed that a lot of homeschoolers have a huge issue with anyone who is using a public system referring to it as "homeschooling." Whenever a new person joins our local homeschool discussion board and mentions virtual schools they are immediately "corrected" in great detail. Some of the folks who homeschool specifically because they don't want a government directed education take great offense.

 

On the same board there are other homeschoolers who do a lot of legwork and planning who don't consider a computer- or CD-based full program to be homeschooling. So they don't consider what they call "school in a box" to be homeschooling either.

 

I guess whether one of offended by someone else's definition depends on the size of the homeschool umbrella you are carrying. ;) It's not like we get a special badge or something, right? Just the denim jumper. :)

 

I can understand why it would be annoying for someone who is not actually legally homeschooling to say that they are because sometimes that legal distinction is important. But, I seriously doubt if the person has given it any thought or understands the distinction. To the non-initiated if you aren't in a brick and mortar establishiment, you are home schooling. KWIM? I would imagine as the virtual schools become more common that confusion will clear up.

Edited September 1, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[laundrycrisis]

 

I feel that quantifying who is a pure homeschooler or not hurts the movement.

 

disclaimer- I use a public charter school, not K12, but pick all my materials and scope/sequence and yeah, it stings to be labeled and uninvited from park days/groups/moms night out.

 

:iagree: There is nothing to be gained by that kind of labeling.

 

Hen Jen, IMO it is awful that you have been treated this way. Completely unkind, and with no benefit to anyone.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I think it depends on where you are b/c here if your child can not attend the public school physically here and is registered brick and mortar (not virtual-but actual brick and mortar with a teacher), then you are considered home bound. They don't call them public school at home. They call them homebound students. They also call it home study students. They are distinguished from the regular public schoolers in brick in mortar as home bound or home study. i have never heard any one in real life say virtual public school at home. That is a mouthful. They are either educated at home or not. That is all anyone on the outside looks at to determine if one is home schooled.

I learned that this year as my son was being evaluated for OT. They considered the virtual school at home school setting just as much as if we were not doing a virtual and just private homeschoolers.

I agree with the previous statements about homeschool being distinguished as private schools. That is how it is in our state. You are either registered as a home study student approved by the board of ed., a private school not seeking state approval, or you are in a physical private school or brick and mortar public school. There is no legal way to homeschool here otherwise. There is technically no such thing here as a "home" school student. You are either private, public, or home study. I assume all virtual school students are technically home study or home bound students registered to the charter school. So technically here it doesn't matter b/c technically everyone is registered with the state in some way or another to legally school at home. I am glad of that now as it sounds very horrid to live where a person can judge your educational choices and manifest your choices as being a slight to their choices. It sounds pretty horrid and nasty and petty to be honest and I am glad I live where I do and no one can technically call themselves any purer a homeschool parent than another since technically no one is a homeschool student. :tongue_smilie:

Why does it belittle anyone else if your friend chooses to associate herself as a homeschooler? I have never understood this logic nor do I understand this big debate over being a "true" home schooler.

[MomatHWTK]

So, do we have to add a qualifier in front of natural childbirth to make sure people really know what we mean, when it wasn't the folks who had been using those words for a generation that changed the definition?

 

really natural childbirth? low-intervention natural childbirth?

 

 

Only if you really care how someone else's child was brought into the world. Really? You parse the criteria for what constitutes "natural" too?

 

I think in casual conversation, i.e. not in a court of law or legal pleading, it may go too far to expect people to know and understand your exact definition of these various terms.

[annandatje]

I have an acquaintance who has enrolled the only child, a middle-schooler, in a state-provided virtual school. Yes, this is one of our state's public-school options. (If it matters, the state considers them public-schoolers.)

 

For the last month there have been posts all over the person's FB page stating that they are homeschooling and so on.

 

I'm having a ridiculously emotional reaction to this. I want to scream, "You are public-schooling at home! Do not call youself a homeschooler." I have said nothing.

 

I think the reason it annoys me is that I put so much more work into planning, teaching, and taking responsibility for assessing, grading, correcting, that it annoys me to have someone else call what they are doing homeschooling when it is not parent-led, not parent-provided, and requires so much less responsibililty and effort.

 

It also annoys me because although I have older students whom I have homeschooled from early on, I also will freely tell people that I outsource some of their subjects. While it's no longer all on my shoulders, I add the role of educational advocate and procurement specialist to the role of college/career counselor, and let me tell ya, that last one alone puts me right back into the "responsibility-on-my-shoulders" category.

 

Help me sort this out, please. And don't throw any tomatoes. I'm honestly trying to figure out why I'm so peeved and whether it's justified, not justified, or somewhere in between.

 

Thank you.

 

ETA: The only other person that I know who is using the state's public virtual school program is using it for a high schooler. In their family, they have homeschooled, private schooled, homeschooled again, and finally, with the last, virtual schooled for a couple of years. They do not call it homeschooling, they'll tell people, "J. 'virtual schools' with NameofProgram."

 

Your peevishness is not justified, and you yourself state that it is ridiculously over emotional response. Your acquaintance probably is using "homeschooling" in the generic sense, not as a legal term.

 

Is someone who uses Calvert, a program that lays out daily lesson plans, homeschooling? What if they are using the advisory teaching service? Are they homeschooling any more or less than a parent who selects resources on their own and does periodic planning on their own? Legally both are homeschooling ... unless, of course, one is using Calvert in a virtual program. However, the nuts and bolts look the same. Both families may be sitting at dining room table with parent guiding and overseeing the progress of their students.

 

My point is that homeschooling has many different faces. Your acquaintance is correct in at least one sense: she is monitoring school work at home. Why rain on her parade by pointing out that she is considered a public schooler legally?

 

Take pride in your own hardworking parent-led homeschooling without insisting that others note the technical and legal differences between "true" homeschooling, virtual homeschooling, and public virtual schooling.

 

Just be happy for her that she is happy with her schooling choice.

[annandatje]

But if you are not using a virtual school, I don't think it should bother you.

 

I am trying to be gentle here and not snarky. It seems like you are feeling rather superior and getting your feathers ruffled because of the attitude of 'taking the high road' versus those who choose public school. Now that schooling is available at home, it is crossing into your territory that you feel you have "earned". I can see your point, but it comes off a little snobby, IMO.

 

Times have changed and I think you should try to adjust accordingly. You made decisions based on what is best for your family, as did your friend, regardless of what she chooses to call it.

 

You could always delete her if her posts are bothering you.

 

Being a parent is tough. Educational decisions are tough. I have spent many sleepless nights agonizing on what is best for my kids, as I am sure we all do at times. And I know my friends down the street agonize over the same issues, even if they have chosen another route. Please do not undermine what your friend feels is homeschooling just because you feel you have agonized and sacrificed more than her.

 

:iagree: Hide her posts if you wish to retain her acquaintance. If not, unfriend her.

[twinmami01]

To me it's still homeschooling. A different form than the one you chose, for sure, but homeschooling nonetheless. You still have the kid home with you all day, you still have to butt heads to make sure the work gets done, you still have to worry about the field trips and "socialization" issues, your whole life and approach to education have changed, etc. I consider unschoolers and relaxed homeschoolers to homeschooling too, and IMO, what your friend is doing is not much different.

 

:iagree: Here in FL, we have the option of an umbrella school or registered as homeschoolers with the county. We chose the umbrella school. I too have "tried" the virtual schools under the public school options. Either way you go, we are choosing to school at home. It still entails lots of work. I'm not sure why it's an issue. I know this comes up all the time with the us vs. them. We're homeschoolers, let's just encourage one another regardless of the options that we choose.

[goldberry]

The first year I kept DD home, we did a public online school. Everyone said, "Oh, you're homeschooling!" and I was quick to correct them, "No, we use an online school." But that was because I was still "afraid" of homeschooling and wanted to seem more normal! (duh). At the time, I thought it was SO DIFFERENT.

 

What I realized with online public school was that I was doing all the work of homeschooling (coaching, motivating, correcting, advising) with none of the benefits (flexibility, choices). So I do think that online school parents still do a large part of the work!

 

When I say homeschooling now, it is fairly common to get a followup question of "Oh, are you using such-and-such (online school)" and I have to clarify that we are "straight homeschooling" which also is a bit misleading considering I don't design my own cirriculum, but use different cirriculum for each subject. But I don't really know how else to clarify!

 

I do not feel less of a homeschooler because I don't design my own cirriculum, or because DD takes a couple of online classes. Now, I see homeschooling as "having DD at home getting her education, and me getting to choose what education she gets". It's that simple. Probably by 12th grade she may be doing all online or community college classes. She will still be homeschooling to me.

 

So, I don't see it as another reason to divide.

[FloridaLisa]

It's not homeschooling by the statute's definition on our state. Our local counties, however, like to lump it under the general homeschooling banner.

 

Also, Valerie, while I've always had a knee-jerk reaction to calling these schools as "homeschools", I do see that they have a valid place in educational choice. I am happy that those who want to keep their children at home have this option. Many can't or won't put in the time and study you have to putting together a truly homegrown education. Nevertheless, there are still many benefits to the virtual-school-at-home option.

 

HTH,

Lisa

 

P.S. Just before I hit submit, I had a flashing thought that maybe you are feeling the same thing that many credentialed teachers feel when we say we are teaching our kids at home? Lol, how in the world, they might think, when they had to get a bachelors or more to teach?? Ah, well, thankful for the freedom for both. :001_smile:

[Halftime Hope]

 

 

feeling rather superior

 

 

'taking the high road'

 

 

 

your territory that you feel you have "earned". This quote I understand: I have lived the label, and I said as much: I have walked this path day by day, year by year.

 

 

little snobby, IMO.

 

I said nothing and implied nothing of the sort--no where did I say that what I chose was better, superior, or the high road, any more than what anyone else is chosing to do. You are reading in your own judgements.

 

Times have changed and I think you should try to adjust accordingly. You made my point from a post above: times have changed and definitions are changing with them.

 

Please do not undermine what your friend feels is homeschooling.

 

Please, go back and reread what I said about how I'm handling this in real life.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Valerie(TX)

[Tammi K]

We have 6 kids. At one point, right after we moved back from overseas and we're trying to figure out who was doing what, I had one daughter in a B&M Catholic school, another in a state run cyber charter school doing both synchronies and asynchronies classes, a son in a B&M public school, and a daughter who was a 'letter on intent' submitted homeschooler. The lines got blurred pretty well that school year.

 

The one who was 'homeschooled' by definition was using Calvert which was far less planning intensive than the one who did cyber school where I was responsible for planning several of her classes.

 

Right now, in Alaska, I have friends who are: purchasing their own curriculum choices from a local book store, ordering their religious based curriculm from Abeka and Bob Jones, using Switched on Schoolhouse for a completely computer based education, have kids enrolled in high school or college classes for credit, and/or are using boxed curriculum from Calvert, are choosing something I didn't even mention here.

 

But, guess what? The people I mentioned above are all PUBLIC SCHOOL student through IDEA. Lots of choices and a fair bit of money every year to do school OUR way. Homeschool can look like a lot of different things. You just need to expand your vision!

[Halftime Hope]

It's not homeschooling by the statute's definition on our state. Our local counties, however, like to lump it under the general homeschooling banner.

 

Also, Valerie, while I've always had a knee-jerk reaction to calling these schools as "homeschools", I do see that they have a valid place in educational choice. I am happy that those who want to keep their children at home have this option. Many can't or won't put in the time and study you have to putting together a truly homegrown education. Nevertheless, there are still many benefits to the virtual-school-at-home option.

 

HTH,

Lisa

 

P.S. Just before I hit submit, I had a flashing thought that maybe you are feeling the same thing that many credentialed teachers feel when we say we are teaching our kids at home? Lol, how in the world, they might think, when they had to get a bachelors or more to teach?? Ah, well, thankful for the freedom for both. :001_smile:

 

Agreed on all three counts. :)

[Pamela H in Texas]

THe cyber school we used (1½ years with one child) was, at the time (it has been several years) MUCH closer to homeschooling than public school. THere was flexibility at every turn. Additionally, the state hadn't messed with it much (yet - I've heard that changed) so the curriculum was closer to what the company provided rather than the state.

 

Also, when it comes down to it, I claim that I homeschooled my children (the grown ones) all the way through despite using the cyber for a time and a full curriculum for another child for most of a year. I do usually mention my big kids each went to school for 8 weeks in 2001.

 

I don't worry how other people homeschool or what they wanna call it. The VA is public school at home....school at home...homeschooling :)

[Tidbits of Learning]

I said nothing and implied nothing of the sort--no where did I say that what I chose was better, superior, or the high road, any more than what anyone else is chosing to do. You are reading in your own judgements.

 

I'm having a ridiculously emotional reaction to this. I want to scream, "You are public-schooling at home! Do not call youself a homeschooler." I have said nothing.

 

I think the reason it annoys me is that I put so much more work into planning, teaching, and taking responsibility for assessing, grading, correcting, that it annoys me to have someone else call what they are doing homeschooling when it is not parent-led, not parent-provided, and requires so much less responsibililty and effort.

 

 

As someone who utilizes a virtual charter to home educate my children, you do come off as condescending. It actually comes across as rather full of yourself and your abilities. I am sure the local private or public school teacher could write just as snarky remarks about your ability and efforts to "home" school your child.