Kids not being allowed to dislike others?

[Dmmetler]

My DD went to piano camp last week, and one of the other moms at dance asked her about it. DD replied that "I liked everything and everyone but two girls who I didn't like at all". The other mom commented something like "Well, that's not very nice! I'm sure you'd like them if you knew them better".

 

Uh, I was there as staff, and I can't blame DD, or any of the other younger kids for not liking those two particular girls. I'm not sure WHY they were at piano camp at all-neither had any significant skills in music (both had apparently done a piano exploratory of a few weeks at school and that was all-which made them primer level at a camp where even the youngest kids had taken at least a year of private piano) or seemed to have any interest in it, and they both seemed to revel in bullying and manipulating the younger kids. I spent most of the week running interference in my theory and Orff classes, and the Dalcroze instructor made a similar statement. To be honest, I can't say I liked them much either-they made teaching what was, otherwise, a wonderful group of kids really, really tough.

 

I reassured DD that those two girls hadn't been particularly nice to the younger kids at camp, and that it was VERY reasonable for her not to like them-which got a "what kind of parent are you" expression from the other mom.

 

I have to wonder-is it really typical to expect kids to like everyone, simply because they're in the same classroom or group?

[Kathryn]

Idk, but I don't expect my kids to "like" mean people. I expect them to follow the rules that we set for how to treat people, but they don't have to like them.

[Catwoman]

I have to wonder-is it really typical to expect kids to like everyone, simply because they're in the same classroom or group?

 

No.

 

Absolutely not.

 

Good manners and civil behavior are one thing, but liking is another.

 

Who likes everyone they meet??? :confused:

[regentrude]

I have to wonder-is it really typical to expect kids to like everyone, simply because they're in the same classroom or group?

 

Yes, that is pretty typical. My kids attended public elementary school. I guess the idea is to eliminate bullying. The kids were forced to make Valentines for every.single.child in the class (thus reducing the value of a valentine to zero, because if everybody is "special", nobody is). It was also required that every child was invited to a birthday party, otherwise she would not be permitted to pass out invitations at school. Stuff like this.

In the end, it did not eliminate bullying at all.

 

It is normal to like certain people and to dislike others. It is also normal to want to spend time with certain people and not with others. Kids should not be forced to "like" all other kids and to spend time with all other kids- this is perfectly possibly without going too far and bully.

[mrs.m]

I think it's more along the lines of that it isn't nice to talk about not liking someone. Not liking someone is just fine. But it shouldn't be brought up in conversation with anyone other than a parent.

[katilac]

I don't expect my kids to like everyone, but I also don't expect them to announce it to casual aquaintances when they don't :)

 

You said it was one of the moms at dance, so I'm assuming she's not a close friend. Either way, I would gently guide dd to be a bit more diplomatic. What if this mom, or one in hearing distance, knew the girls in question? No, she didn't name them, but it might have been quite easy to guess. If she knew the girls, and your dd mentioned they were at a lower level, she would have immediately known who she was talking about.

 

I think that's the type of thing you share with good friends in a private conversation, rather than something you say in response to a small talk question in public, kwim?

 

In response to your main question, no, I don't know anyone who expects their kids to like everyone in their peer group.

[astrid]

Yes, that is pretty typical. My kids attended public elementary school. I guess the idea is to eliminate bullying. The kids were forced to make Valentines for every.single.child in the class (thus reducing the value of a valentine to zero, because if everybody is "special", nobody is). It was also required that every child was invited to a birthday party, otherwise she would not be permitted to pass out invitations at school. Stuff like this.

In the end, it did not eliminate bullying at all.

 

It is normal to like certain people and to dislike others. It is also normal to want to spend time with certain people and not with others. Kids should not be forced to "like" all other kids and to spend time with all other kids- this is perfectly possibly without going too far and bully.

 

I went to elementary school in the mid '70's and the teachers sent home a class list with each kid. We had to make a valentine for everyone then.

 

astrid

[Mergath]

I think it's more along the lines of that it isn't nice to talk about not liking someone. Not liking someone is just fine. But it shouldn't be brought up in conversation with anyone other than a parent.

 

:iagree: I wouldn't expect my dd to like everyone, and I'm not going to force her to spent large quantities of time with people she doesn't like, but I would not be happy if she began to announce publicly that she doesn't like certain people. That's rude and unnecessary.

[happi duck]

I think it was a weird thing for the other mom to focus on. I agree with a pp...who likes everyone they meet? Maybe saying 'most of the kids were really nice' would've not caused the weird reaction.

 

Regarding a pp about valentines and invitations in the classroom:

Please know that these rules are not about the mean kids. It's not the mean kids who are being protected from feeling left out and ignored. There are other means to deliver invitations and special valentines that 'mean something'.

[ocelotmom]

Honestly? I'd be embarrassed if my kid responded like that (this isn't judgement - my kids say plenty of cringe-worthy things), and we'd be having a talk about the appropriate way to respond to polite conversation and the importance of not talking in an unnecessarily exclusionary manner.

 

I in no way expect them to like everyone. I do expect them to be nice about it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

:iagree: I wouldn't expect my dd to like everyone, and I'm not going to force her to spent large quantities of time with people she doesn't like, but I would not be happy if she began to announce publicly that she doesn't like certain people. That's rude and unnecessary.

 

:iagree:

 

I am firm on, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." If someone asks a specific question, I am more lenient, especially with younger kids. But if someone asks a general question and the response involves negative specifics that could lead to hurt feelings, we're going to have a chat.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy

[Crimson Wife]

It's rude to comment on disliking someone. I would call my kids out for saying something like that. They do not have to like everyone, but they do have to be polite.

[sparrow]

I believe the comment was meant to deflect an uncomfortable statement. I don't think anyone is expected to like everyone, but as an adult in the conversation she may have felt she needed to "make nice" for the girls that weren't there to defend themselves. Otherwise, you just kind of end up with that awkward silence after "....two girls I didn't like at all".

[ocelotmom]

I also wonder if she might not have responded differently if your daughter had said she didn't like the two girls because they were bullies. She may have jumped to the conclusion that the two unliked girls were the ones being bullied.

[marbel]

Honestly? I'd be embarrassed if my kid responded like that (this isn't judgement - my kids say plenty of cringe-worthy things), and we'd be having a talk about the appropriate way to respond to polite conversation and the importance of not talking in an unnecessarily exclusionary manner.

 

I in no way expect them to like everyone. I do expect them to be nice about it.

:iagree: Yep. My kids can tell me, privately, about people they disliked, but not others in casual conversation. I suppose if they were directly asked I'd want them to be truthful, but kind - as best they could given their ages and social skills.

 

Re: valentines - in 1966 I had to take valentines to everyone in my class! I remember it well because we weren't even supposed to put names on them, just hand them out randomly. What's the point?

 

re: Invitations - these were rightly handled outside of class. I don't think anyone should be passing out party invitations in school even if everyone is invited. Though my kids don't go to school so don't really have this experience, they know not to talk about social events in front of someone who was not invited.

[Caroline]

:iagree: I wouldn't expect my dd to like everyone, and I'm not going to force her to spent large quantities of time with people she doesn't like, but I would not be happy if she began to announce publicly that she doesn't like certain people. That's rude and unnecessary.

 

:iagree:

 

My kids are allowed to not like people. However, I don't want them to go around announcing who they like and don't like. Yes, they can discuss it with us. They can discuss it with a teacher if that becomes necessary.

[Dmmetler]

I agree that she's short on tact at times. And we've had the "it's not nice to talk about people when they're not there" conversation.

 

But at the same time, is it so surprising that when a child is asked a question, they answer honestly? It's not like DD came in and started complaining about the girls, or that she'd gone around at camp all week telling them how much she disliked them. She kept her mouth shut during the week, and when asked by an adult who she's seen on a regular basis since she was 3 yrs old, answered honestly. I have trouble faulting her too much for that. The only reason I know who she was referring to is that I was there.

[angela in ohio]

I went to elementary school in the mid '70's and the teachers sent home a class list with each kid. We had to make a valentine for everyone then.

 

astrid

 

Ditto. I've never, ever heard of a class where this wasn't true. Of course, our school didn't have to mandate it; people just knew to do it anyway. :001_smile: The reason there even ARE rules like this (and the birthday invite one) is that not all people raise their dc to be polite about things like this. Schools have had to make rules about it to create a safe learning environment free of social hassles. (Though I disagree with Valentines in school in general. :D) [i think that's the first time I've ever disagreed with regentrude! ;)]

 

I don't think dc have to like everyone's actions, but it would take much more than that for it to be okay to dislike them as people in our home. Like pp, though, it would not ever be acceptable for my dc to say to a third person that they didn't like someone though. (Of course, unless you knew the other mother well, it was almost as rude of her to comment on it.)

 

I don't think it's at all related to the "everyone's special" issue.

Edited July 25, 2012 by angela in ohio

[In the Rain]

That lady's child has obviously never been the target of a bully. Mine has. I don't expect my dd to like the person who makes her life miserable.

 

I would draw the line at allowing my dd to call another child mean though, or labeling them.

 

I don't expect my kids to like everyone, but I also don't expect them to announce it to casual aquaintances when they don't :)

 

 

:iagree: I would agree to this statement.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Julianna
clarity

[angela in ohio]

I agree that she's short on tact at times. And we've had the "it's not nice to talk about people when they're not there" conversation.

 

But at the same time, is it so surprising that when a child is asked a question, they answer honestly? It's not like DD came in and started complaining about the girls, or that she'd gone around at camp all week telling them how much she disliked them. She kept her mouth shut during the week, and when asked by an adult who she's seen on a regular basis since she was 3 yrs old, answered honestly. I have trouble faulting her too much for that. The only reason I know who she was referring to is that I was there.

 

If I was the adult, it would probably just suprise me that that was the one thing she chose to comment on about camp. Unlike a pp, I don't think it was odd for the mom to focus on that comment, because that was what dd was focused on.

[Seshet]

That is very common in the ps world. ET1 attended ps for Kinder. The teachers taught that all the kids in class are your friends, not classmates, friends. They insisted that the kids call all the other kids their friends. It drove me nuts, and I talked to ET1 about what a friend really is, how true friends act, etc. I explained that you have the right to be picky about who your friends are, and that a real friendship will need more in common than being born within the same year.

 

I'm sure it's an attempt to stop bullying and encourage acceptance, but I don't think it works very well.

[Danestress]

Even if there is no way the other mother would be able to figure out who the girls are, I would gently discourage her from announcing it in casual encounters. If her grandmother or best friends' mom asked, I would be more comfortable with a honest pronouncement.

 

That said, I don't think kids have to like everyone, though I think they need to be polite as possible under the circumstances.

 

I don't agree that if she knew the kids better she would like them more. Sometimes we like people less as we know them more. That I true even when the other kid isn't mean or isn't a bully. I think sometimes a kid won't like another kid because he or she is too loud, too boring, too obsessive with video gems, too opinionated, too negative, too shallow .... or a host of other reasons. I don't expect every child to like my kids, either!

[Mergath]

I agree that she's short on tact at times. And we've had the "it's not nice to talk about people when they're not there" conversation.

 

But at the same time, is it so surprising that when a child is asked a question, they answer honestly? It's not like DD came in and started complaining about the girls, or that she'd gone around at camp all week telling them how much she disliked them. She kept her mouth shut during the week, and when asked by an adult who she's seen on a regular basis since she was 3 yrs old, answered honestly. I have trouble faulting her too much for that. The only reason I know who she was referring to is that I was there.

 

Part of growing up is learning to walk the fine line between honesty and tact. I wouldn't be surprised to hear a young child say "I don't like so-and-so," but I do think our job as parents is to gently correct that kind of behavior.

[astrid]

Yes. Maybe those who become bullies, both in school and as adults, are the ones who never got any valentines? Oversimplified, yes, but perhaps you understand my point.

 

astrid

[Impish]

I went to elementary school in the mid '70's and the teachers sent home a class list with each kid. We had to make a valentine for everyone then.

 

astrid

:iagree:

It's rude to comment on disliking someone. I would call my kids out for saying something like that. They do not have to like everyone, but they do have to be polite.

:iagree:

[Alte Veste Academy]

If I was the adult, it would probably just suprise me that that was the one thing she chose to comment on about camp. Unlike a pp, I don't think it was wierd for the mom to focus on that comment, because that was what dd was focused on.

 

Right. I'm guessing that in asking about piano camp, she was probably thinking the answer would have something to do with piano. I don't think it is out of the ordinary for a 7 yo to answer as she did. Kids are kids and that's just what was on her mind. But I am someone who almost always errs on the side of defending those not present, unable to present their own case or speak up for themselves. It's an auto-setting for me. I can see myself sputtering out something similar in response, even though it's ridiculous. :tongue_smilie:

 

I also talk with my kids about bullies. Honestly, I teach my kids that there is always a reason a child bullies, and it is usually very, very sad. Do we want to be friends with bullies? Do we allow ourselves to be bullied? No. But I do try to instill some degree of sympathy and empathy.

[BigMamaBird]

I don't expect my kids to like everyone. I expect them to treat them kindly and with politeness though.

[Dory]

My kids aren't even told that they have to like each other. They have to love people, care about people, and try to understand people, but they don't have to always like them. I don't even always like my own dh, how can I expect my kids to like everyone. It's not unusual if one child is having a bit of attitude for the other child to look at them and say, "I don't like you very much right now, why aren't you being nice?"

[Alte Veste Academy]

Yes, that is pretty typical. My kids attended public elementary school. I guess the idea is to eliminate bullying. The kids were forced to make Valentines for every.single.child in the class (thus reducing the value of a valentine to zero, because if everybody is "special", nobody is). It was also required that every child was invited to a birthday party, otherwise she would not be permitted to pass out invitations at school. Stuff like this. In the end, it did not eliminate bullying at all.

 

I'm trying to find a way to phrase this politely and failing miserably. Basically, this makes me sad. There are kids who are special to everyone. And they know it. There are also kids who are not special. To anyone. And they know it. I don't think bullying is the issue in the case of cards and invitations. I think the issue is protecting the heart of the child who is not special to anyone. The special kids who would otherwise just as easily score scads of Valentine's and party invites certainly are not hurt by this relatively minor "sacrifice" so, really, of all the things to disdain...

 

Now if you want to talk about trophies for participation and no winners and losers and all that, I would be an ally. But Valentine's cards and letting everyone share in and enjoy the general warm fuzzies of classroom celebrations? No.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy

[Carpe]

It isn't exactly the most tactful to announce that you didn't like someone, even if you had good reason. But it isn't right to tell people that they'd like someone more if they knew them better, without actually knowing how they interacted. So in that regard, I do think it's important to confirm that your daughter has valid feelings.

 

I don't know how would have been the right way to deal with the situation. Just brush it off maybe?

"Not everyone is nice, but you had lots of fun there anyway. Why don't you tell [other mom] about [that fun thing]?"

[Mergath]

 

Now if you want to talk about trophies for participation and no winners and losers and all that, I would be an ally. But Valentine's cards and letting everyone share in and enjoy the general warm fuzzies of classroom celebrations? No.

 

As the child who would have been the one to receive no Valentines at all, I definitely appreciated this policy. Kids find enough ways to one-up each other as it is.

[sgo95]

My DD went to piano camp last week, and one of the other moms at dance asked her about it. DD replied that "I liked everything and everyone but two girls who I didn't like at all". The other mom commented something like "Well, that's not very nice! I'm sure you'd like them if you knew them better".

 

From the OP's signature, her daughter is 7 and I don't think she was tactless or impolite. Should a seven year old really be expected to conceal her true feelings for the sake of social niceties? My DD on the other hand never wants to tell me what she really thinks because she doesn't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. I would prefer knowing how my child really feels so I can help her process the experiences she has.

 

Back to the original situation, the truth was that the two children were a pain. Sure, we can (and should) emphasize to our children that even people who are hurtful and inconsiderate are still fellow human beings with feelings and needs. Honestly, I thought the other mom was "not very nice." I would have (in sympathy) asked your DD what had happened during camp with the two other girls in order to understand why your DD felt that way.

[Crimson Wife]

Yes. Maybe those who become bullies, both in school and as adults, are the ones who never got any valentines? Oversimplified, yes, but perhaps you understand my point.

 

astrid

 

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic here or serious.

 

Bullying is all about being on a power trip. People who enjoy bringing others down because it makes them feel powerful. At its core, it reflects a lack of empathy for other people.

[astrid]

I think it's incredibly mean not to give cards to everyone in this case. It's a shame we have to force people, but I envision some kid who maybe doesn't dress so well because her parents cannot afford better and nobody liking her because kids say she is ugly and smells and so nobody wants to give her a card. Just mean!

 

Despite the give everyone a card thing, kids still have ways of signaling who they REALLY like a lot. In our HS group we did cards and my kids would write extra special things to their best buds.

 

I agree--- which is why I found this post so difficult:

 

 

Yes, that is pretty typical. My kids attended public elementary school. I guess the idea is to eliminate bullying. The kids were forced to make Valentines for every.single.child in the class (thus reducing the value of a valentine to zero, because if everybody is "special", nobody is). It was also required that every child was invited to a birthday party, otherwise she would not be permitted to pass out invitations at school. Stuff like this.

In the end, it did not eliminate bullying at all.

 

It is normal to like certain people and to dislike others. It is also normal to want to spend time with certain people and not with others. Kids should not be forced to "like" all other kids and to spend time with all other kids- this is perfectly possibly without going too far and bully.

 

astrid

[Mergath]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic here or serious.

 

Bullying is all about being on a power trip. People who enjoy bringing others down because it makes them feel powerful. At its core, it reflects a lack of empathy for other people.

 

In some cases, yes. But many bullies do so because THEY were bullied, whether by parents or other children.

[Mergath]

From the OP's signature, her daughter is 7 and I don't think she was tactless or impolite. Should a seven year old really be expected to conceal her true feelings for the sake of social niceties? My DD on the other hand never wants to tell me what she really thinks because she doesn't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. I would prefer knowing how my child really feels so I can help her process the experiences she has.

 

I think there's a difference between having a private conversation with mom or dad about one's feelings and publicly announcing them, and it's the parent's job to teach that. Kids are certainly allowed to feel what they feel, but no one's child is such a special snowflake that they're entitled to publicly announce whatever they think of other kids without any regard for the feelings of the people around them.

[Crimson Wife]

From the OP's signature, her daughter is 7 and I don't think she was tactless or impolite. Should a seven year old really be expected to conceal her true feelings for the sake of social niceties?

 

Yes, absolutely. 7 is not too young to learn manners. In this country today, parents in general don't do enough to instill politeness in their children. Part of being civil is keeping one's true feelings to oneself when they are hurtful to others. "Social niceties" as you put them are the basis of maintaining a harmonious relationship with others. That's at least as important a skill as all the academics we stress with our kids.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic here or serious.

 

Bullying is all about being on a power trip. People who enjoy bringing others down because it makes them feel powerful. At its core, it reflects a lack of empathy for other people.

 

:confused: But you can't possibly believe that bullying occurs in a vacuum. I think most people who lack empathy have not experienced much empathy. And, honestly, it doesn't show much empathy to revile bullies without stopping to consider what causes them to want to bring down other people.

 

In some cases, yes. But many bullies do so because THEY were bullied, whether by parents or other children.

 

:iagree:

[Dmmetler]

I think there's a difference between having a private conversation with mom or dad about one's feelings and publicly announcing them, and it's the parent's job to teach that. Kids are certainly allowed to feel what they feel, but no one's child is such a special snowflake that they're entitled to publicly announce whatever they think of other kids without any regard for the feelings of the people around them.

 

Uh, she was in a 1-1 conversation with an adult she's seen at least once a week for four years. She didn't announce in the middle of camp that she didn't like these particular kids. She didn't name names. She was asked a question, and she answered.

 

Was she tactful? No. Is it a behavior I want to see her repeat? No. Is it a behavior I addressed? Yes. But I'm not sure that she was "publically announcing without any regard for the feelings of the people around them" either.

[astrid]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic here or serious.

 

Bullying is all about being on a power trip. People who enjoy bringing others down because it makes them feel powerful. At its core, it reflects a lack of empathy for other people.

 

Quite serious. I am aware of the dynamics involved in bullying. I"m merely suggesting that those who feel the need to bully in an effort to make themselves feel powerful might do so because they themselves have felt powerless and shunned by their peers, which often causes them to withdraw and become angry with society. All too often, this anger can manifest itself in bullying behavior, or worse.

 

astrid

[Joker]

I don't think her response was bad/shocking or not age appropriate. Not at all. I was just saying why the other woman may have said that. Maybe the wording was weird, but I would have probably said something like it to deflect my awkward feeling.

 

:iagree: I would have probably been awkward in my response to you and your dd as well because I wouldn't know how to respond well to what she said. I would not have liked hearing one of my own dds make those comments to someone else.

[LBS]

Liking other kids is a choice. Being polite and tolerant and kind to all people is not. I didn't get the impression the child said it in front of a large group, but was responding to her mom. These are 7 year olds, right?

 

When my kids have been in any group, ps, playgroup or otherwise, it was just good manners, to not send invitations to be handed out, if every child was not included. It was just good manners. If every child is not included, you mail the invitations. Same with Valentines. Not sure how this leaps to bullying, but I did witness excluding and hurtful results when this rule was not observed.

 

Also, in the same situation, I could hear myself saying "well, give them another chance, maybe they're shy/scared/whatever." When my child says "naw, they're mean/ugly/rude" then I'd say "stay away from them, then."

 

Make sense?

[astrid]

I agree with you. I was specifically addressing the comments about giving everyone in the class a valentine. Giving a valentine, for example, to everyone in the class except one person is exclusionary. I feel it's rude to exclude someone in such a manner.

 

Would I make my daughter invite the Valentine-less over for a playdate? No. Would I make my daughter to count her as a friend? No. But I wouldn't allow her to exclude her from a class activity such as giving valentines. To me, that's unkind.

astrid

[catz]

I think it's more along the lines of that it isn't nice to talk about not liking someone. Not liking someone is just fine. But it shouldn't be brought up in conversation with anyone other than a parent.

 

I guess this is what I would think. I think it's absolutely fine not to like another kid. There are just social conventions about how you talk about other people in public. When a casual acquaintance says conversationally "how did you like camp", I don't think you necessarily get into the down and dirty into the behavior of individual kids at camp. If someone asked an adult "How was coffee with Suzy and Jill?", I don't think they'd answer "Ok, but Jill was a royal pain. I won't be meeting her for coffee again". Talking about others like that would definitely come off as rude to me, and I would discuss it if my kids said something like that to someone outside our family.

 

And I totally understand why schools don't allow kids to hand out invites or Valentines to only a few kids during school hours. I don't think an adult would go up to a group of adults and only say to one "Hey, let's go bowling just me and you" and disregard the others. It's absolutely fine to invite anyone you want, but do it privately. That's another lesson in manners. My DD has a hard time with this one sometimes regarding arranging play dates in front of other kids.

[Catwoman]

Uh, she was in a 1-1 conversation with an adult she's seen at least once a week for four years. She didn't announce in the middle of camp that she didn't like these particular kids. She didn't name names. She was asked a question, and she answered.

 

Was she tactful? No. Is it a behavior I want to see her repeat? No. Is it a behavior I addressed? Yes. But I'm not sure that she was "publically announcing without any regard for the feelings of the people around them" either.

 

I agree that she's short on tact at times. And we've had the "it's not nice to talk about people when they're not there" conversation.

 

But at the same time, is it so surprising that when a child is asked a question, they answer honestly? It's not like DD came in and started complaining about the girls, or that she'd gone around at camp all week telling them how much she disliked them. She kept her mouth shut during the week, and when asked by an adult who she's seen on a regular basis since she was 3 yrs old, answered honestly. I have trouble faulting her too much for that. The only reason I know who she was referring to is that I was there.

 

Personally, I don't think your dd did anything wrong.

[FairProspects]

Yes, absolutely. 7 is not too young to learn manners. In this country today, parents in general don't do enough to instill politeness in their children. Part of being civil is keeping one's true feelings to oneself when they are hurtful to others. "Social niceties" as you put them are the basis of maintaining a harmonious relationship with others. That's at least as important a skill as all the academics we stress with our kids.

 

:iagree:And unfortunately, it is a social skill some of our kids have to work harder on than others.

 

OP, SPD kids make these kinds of comments all the time because they just don't pick up on implicit social skills like tact and privacy, and they have to be told explicitly what is and is not ok in each situation. It's exhausting because I can't possibly predict every single response in every single situation and ds can't seem to extrapolate social skills well. So, I feel your pain and I'm sure you dealt with the situation as was appropriate, but I would not be at all surprised that the comment occurred. :grouphug:

[Crimson Wife]

Quite serious. I am aware of the dynamics involved in bullying. I"m merely suggesting that those who feel the need to bully in an effort to make themselves feel powerful might do so because they themselves have felt powerless and shunned by their peers, which often causes them to withdraw and become angry with society. All too often, this anger can manifest itself in bullying behavior, or worse.

 

astrid

 

It's been my observation that most bullies aren't unpopular but rather manipulative, social-savvy "queen bees" or jock types. They aren't angry with society but instead seek to manipulate it to get off on their power trips.

 

I don't buy the "oh, the poor bully is really the victim" stereotype because it so is NOT what I've observed over the past three-and-a-half decades.

[FairProspects]

It's been my observation that most bullies aren't unpopular but rather manipulative, social-savvy "queen bees" or jock types. They aren't angry with society but instead seek to manipulate it to get off on their power trips.

 

I don't buy the "oh, the poor bully is really the victim" stereotype because it so is NOT what I've observed over the past three-and-a-half decades.

 

And many of them seem to have learned it from their parents. :glare:

[Alte Veste Academy]

It's been my observation that most bullies aren't unpopular but rather manipulative, social-savvy "queen bees" or jock types. They aren't angry with society but instead seek to manipulate it to get off on their power trips.

 

I don't buy the "oh, the poor bully is really the victim" stereotype because it so is NOT what I've observed over the past three-and-a-half decades.

 

Out of curiosity, what do you think influences the creation of a bully? What causes an otherwise ordinary child to go on power trips if not a lack of power in his/her own life (whether real or perceived)? What causes a child to want to inflict pain on other children if not abuse and/or a lack of empathy in his/her own upbringing? What causes a child to be angry with society in the absence of an actual injustice to the child (whether inflicted by home, school, etc.)? A poor parental example might be the cause. So might never having had a good example, never having someone enforce good manners or discuss POV and feelings. You talk about what you allow in your kids, what you teach your kids. Example is important. What of those children who don't have someone teaching them social mores or, worse, have someone teaching them their same bullying ways. Are we not to pity those children, have empathy for them?

 

I personally don't consider queen-bee or jock bullies socially savvy so much as socially inept to the point of being incapable of enjoying appropriate, mature social relationships. But what causes that?

 

ETA: I will agree that bullies are not necessarily unpopular. There are always going to be weak children who are attracted to the apparent power of bullies.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy

[sgo95]

Yes, absolutely. 7 is not too young to learn manners. In this country today, parents in general don't do enough to instill politeness in their children. Part of being civil is keeping one's true feelings to oneself when they are hurtful to others. "Social niceties" as you put them are the basis of maintaining a harmonious relationship with others. That's at least as important a skill as all the academics we stress with our kids.

 

How was her DD's statement hurtful to those two girls since they weren't there and this was a private conversation? In a private conversation, I don't agree that voicing our true feelings (even if hurtful to people who are anonymous to the other party) will threaten social disharmony. Also, are we expected to maintain harmonious relationships with everyone?

 

Maybe my opinion is colored too much by my own upbringing, where too much emphasis was placed on maintaining "harmonious relationships" with too many people (that I think were irrelevant) at the cost of valuing the integrity of my own desires and feelings. And yes, I am trying to raise polite children :tongue_smilie:.