Keeping my mother (with dementia) in our home...

[Blueridge]

I am wrestling with this. My sister has been housing our mother for the past 6 (long, very long) years. She inherited this situation because she lived 3 houses down (in AR) from mom when dad was alive. He died, and the next day they moved her into their nice spare bedroom/bath. Mom has spent the 6 years doing housework, etc., to keep busy. As mom has continued to deteriorate health-wise (diabetes, onset of dementia) my sister's life has become unbearable. They argue constantly, mom has rages of anger and bouts of depression. She refuses to take medicine or eat properly. 2 weeks ago mom had another 'episode' of screaming accusations, called her elderly sister in TX and threatened to commit suicide. :confused: Mom's brother raced the 2 hours there to get her and take her to his house so mom and sis could have a break. Sis is too far gone emotionally to communicate with right now, won't answer calls or email, because she is just, well, completely spent. She needs and deserves a regular life. I just heard from her dh that mom has already returned, and all heck is breaking lose again. Mom needs care and none of us have the money to get it for her. It will be 6 months wait until any benefits kick in. Even then, mom has so far refused to stay in any kind of care facility. She can't afford a decent little apartment. So, this is handed to me. Big problems: We live in VA, mom will not fly here, I cannot drive there. We have no spare room in this tiny house, but dh and I are willing to give her our room and sleep in our little camper for a while. Mom is limited in mobility, and won't be able to climb stairs, so she will be confined to a small living space. She will criticize my cooking, my children, my homeschool. The possibilities of disaster are endless. :tongue_smilie: My sister just can't keep her anymore. WWYD?

Edited July 23, 2012 by Blueridge

[Kathryn]

I have no advice, just :grouphug:. What a difficult situation.

[*********]

Where does your mother want to live?

[nono]

Check into what happens if she moves out of state.

 

I don't recall all the details, but for my Mom, it worked out better for her to stay in her state where all the benefits accrued v. moving out of state. It may have had something in the end to do with county services on top of state. (Foggy memory on that).

 

Oh and many :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:.

[Blueridge]

I think mom is just so resentful that she doesn't have 'her own home'. But when dad was alive, he bought her a cute little dollhouse and she just complained every day until he sold it and started renting home after home to try and make her happy. She wants to live in a mansion. :glare:

[Jennifer3141]

Ginger, it is not acceptable for you to live in a CAMPER for months while you wait for benefits to kick in. What kind of benefits?

 

You are lucky in one respect. You have multiple states you can consider for placement for your mother.

 

What you need now is an elder care specialist. For some, this may be an elder care physician. For others, it may be a social worker or counselor or lawyer specializing in elder care to help you all find permanent placement for your mother. You need to look at any states you mother could inhabit and still have family to check in on her because Medicare/Medicaid benefits vary wildly from state to state.

 

But no, I do not think you should take this on unless you have a large enough house and some professional help like a homehealth nurse to deal with all this. And you need to look at your sister as an example of why you cannot do this to your own family.

 

I am wrestling with this. My sister has been housing our mother for the past 6 (long, very long) years. She inherited this situation because she lived 3 houses down (in AR) from mom when dad was alive. He died, and the next day they moved her into their nice spare bedroom/bath. Mom has spent the 6 years doing housework, etc., to keep busy. As mom has continued to deteriorate health-wise (diabetes, onset of dementia) my sister's life has become unbearable. They argue constantly, mom has rages of anger and bouts of depression. She refuses to take medicine or eat properly. 2 weeks ago mom had another 'episode' of screaming accusations, called her elderly sister in TX and threatened to commit suicide. :confused: Mom's brother raced the 2 hours there to get her and take her to his house so mom and sis could have a break. Sis is too far gone emotionally to communicate with right now, won't answer calls or email, because she is just, well, completely spent. She needs and deserves a regular life. I just heard from her dh that mom has already returned, and all heck is breaking lose again. Mom needs care and none of us have the money to get it for her. It will be 6 months wait until any benefits kick in. Even then, mom has so far refused to stay in any kind of care facility. She can't afford a decent little apartment. So, this is handed to me. Big problems: We live in VA, mom will not fly here. We have no spare room in this tiny house, but dh and I are willing to give her our room and sleep in our little camper for a while. Mom is limited in mobility, and won't be able to climb stairs, so she will be confined to a small living space. She will criticize my cooking, my children, my homeschool. The possibilities of disaster are endless. :tongue_smilie: My sister just can't keep her anymore. WWYD?

[Impish]

Next time she rages/threatens suicide, call 911. She will be removed from the home, taken to the hospital.

 

Then, your sister CAN refuse to take her home, citing safety issues, etc.

 

They will HAVE to keep her, find a place for her.

 

Frankly, what your mom wants isn't the primary issue here. Safety is. And she's in a situation where that is compromised, due to her behaviours. Your sister cannot adequately manage her behaviours in such a way to ensure both her safety, and your mom's.

 

Not to mention your sister's emotional and physical health.

 

I absolutely would NOT bring her into your home. If an adult is having trouble dealing w/her behaviour, the impact on the kids would be huge. They would likely feel unsafe and miserable in their own home, and that's not right or fair for them.

 

It just doesn't seem to be in the best interest of your children. I'm not talking preferences here, but the potential for damage, physically and emotionally. Consider it...what would your kids think/feel if Gma starts raging, threatening suicide, etc? How would the kids feel being constantly criticized, Mom being verbally disparaged, Mom and Dad stressed out and arguing? (Cause it *would* happen. Trust me.)

[Blueridge]

Thank you ladies for the wise words. You've already given me much to think about that had not occurred to me. I think my dd14 summed it up when she said, "Gee, Mom, we love Grandma and want to keep loving her...don't make her live with us!" :tongue_smilie:

[Jennifer3141]

Thank you ladies for the wise words. You've already given me much to think about that had not occurred to me. I think my dd14 summed it up when she said, "Gee, Mom, we love Grandma and want to keep loving her...don't make her live with us!" :tongue_smilie:

 

 

:iagree::iagree:You've got a wise child there!!!

[Kathryn]

Next time she rages/threatens suicide, call 911. She will be removed from the home, taken to the hospital.

 

Then, your sister CAN refuse to take her home, citing safety issues, etc.

 

They will HAVE to keep her, find a place for her.

 

Frankly, what your mom wants isn't the primary issue here. Safety is. And she's in a situation where that is compromised, due to her behaviours. Your sister cannot adequately manage her behaviours in such a way to ensure both her safety, and your mom's.

 

Not to mention your sister's emotional and physical health.

 

I absolutely would NOT bring her into your home. If an adult is having trouble dealing w/her behaviour, the impact on the kids would be huge. They would likely feel unsafe and miserable in their own home, and that's not right or fair for them.

 

It just doesn't seem to be in the best interest of your children. I'm not talking preferences here, but the potential for damage, physically and emotionally. Consider it...what would your kids think/feel if Gma starts raging, threatening suicide, etc? How would the kids feel being constantly criticized, Mom being verbally disparaged, Mom and Dad stressed out and arguing? (Cause it *would* happen. Trust me.)

 

This sounds like good advice to me. :grouphug: again.

[TravelingChris]

I agree with Imp about the hospital ER situation. THey will have to find a place for her and with her behavior, it really shouldn't be at anyone's home. Though I do have to warn you that dementia patients who threaten or actually cause violence tend to be put into mental institutions. It is a big problem since their needs and the needs of the younger aged schizophrenics/bipolarsand major depressives are completly different than the dementia patients. For one, the later may and often do get better- the dementia patients don't and end up living in short term facilities for the long term.

[Impish]

I agree with Imp about the hospital ER situation. THey will have to find a place for her and with her behavior, it really shouldn't be at anyone's home. Though I do have to warn you that dementia patients who threaten or actually cause violence tend to be put into mental institutions. It is a big problem since their needs and the needs of the younger aged schizophrenics/bipolarsand major depressives are completly different than the dementia patients. For one, the later may and often do get better- the dementia patients don't and end up living in short term facilities for the long term.

Interesting. Here, there are ltcf that have locked wards, etc, so that doesn't happen, although, thinking about it, *extreme* cases that couldn't be handled w/meds were transferred to a higher security facility.

[TravelingChris]

I just know how it was in Florida. I was very surprised to see all these elderly people in the mental hospital. I was told that these were people who acted out in the nursing homes and assisted living places and were now living in the hospital since there was no place for them to go. The nursing homes put violent patients on their no placement lists. What is very tragic is that there really aren't enough beds for all the seriously mentally ill plus all the dementia patients. All I knew was that it seemed like a bad solution since their needs were so dissimilar.

[i.love.lucy]

I agree about allowing her to be hospitalized. Then the hospital social worker can kick in and help you find a placement when it's an actual urgent situation. My father in law went in to a nursing home after an illness based on his medical insurance (he did not have medicare) but then applied for medicaid to keep him there. Granted, he was ill, not diminished mental capacity, but it's a similar situation. If she has no assets, it won't be long before she will get approved to stay there. There are some nice facilities out there to deal with patients like your mom. They know how to handle it and it doesn't damage them emotionally.

 

I think we do have to let go of what we think the "ideal" is. There is no ideal when you are an adult with dementia and you are making everyone's life a living nightmare. Your sister could place her somewhere where she would be safe and cared for, and then visit to make sure, and have her life back. It's not the life your mom would have imagined, but then when is it ever? I think we have to do what is best for the majority in these situations, and you living in a camper while she takes over your home is not in the best interests of your family.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: This is difficult, I know. My mother in law is still in her home alone but I don't think for long. We've tossed out the idea of all of us buying a home together but she won't hear of it. I get it. But she won't last more than a few more years by herself. She's mentally quite sharp but she is so feeble with arthritis that I worry constantly. We have a great relationship right now, but maybe not if she lived with us. But she also refuses to consider a nursing home. Hello? You won't live with us, but you can't live alone. There isn't anything else!!!

 

Don't move her there.

[Impish]

I just know how it was in Florida. I was very surprised to see all these elderly people in the mental hospital. I was told that these were people who acted out in the nursing homes and assisted living places and were now living in the hospital since there was no place for them to go. The nursing homes put violent patients on their no placement lists. What is very tragic is that there really aren't enough beds for all the seriously mentally ill plus all the dementia patients. All I knew was that it seemed like a bad solution since their needs were so dissimilar.

Oh, Chris, please don't think I was doubting what you said! :grouphug:

 

I know from working the front lines here, the behaviour has to be REALLY extreme for anything to happen. The resident that injured me injured others before and since (I found out after I was hurt) and is still in the same facility. At another place I worked, one of the residents s*xually assaulted most of the workers, I had finger shaped bruises on my bOOks from him, and nothing was done. Here, the protection is all for the residents, none for the employees. Like I said, it has to be very extreme for them to consider a transfer.

[gardenmom5]

Next time she rages/threatens suicide, call 911. She will be removed from the home, taken to the hospital.

 

Then, your sister CAN refuse to take her home, citing safety issues, etc.

 

They will HAVE to keep her, find a place for her.

 

Frankly, what your mom wants isn't the primary issue here. Safety is. And she's in a situation where that is compromised, due to her behaviours. Your sister cannot adequately manage her behaviours in such a way to ensure both her safety, and your mom's.

 

Not to mention your sister's emotional and physical health.

 

I absolutely would NOT bring her into your home. If an adult is having trouble dealing w/her behaviour, the impact on the kids would be huge. They would likely feel unsafe and miserable in their own home, and that's not right or fair for them.

 

It just doesn't seem to be in the best interest of your children. I'm not talking preferences here, but the potential for damage, physically and emotionally. Consider it...what would your kids think/feel if Gma starts raging, threatening suicide, etc? How would the kids feel being constantly criticized, Mom being verbally disparaged, Mom and Dad stressed out and arguing? (Cause it *would* happen. Trust me.)

 

:iagree: your mother is irrational and incapable of making sound judgments.

[gardenmom5]

Interesting. Here, there are ltcf that have locked wards, etc, so that doesn't happen, although, thinking about it, *extreme* cases that couldn't be handled w/meds were transferred to a higher security facility.

 

My mother was in an assisted living facility (that was just short of nursing home for those who didn't need 24/7 skilled nursing care.) It also had a locked unit for dementia patients.

[LostSurprise]

There are a lot of programs in place for people facing home care/mental deterioration situations (I'm assuming you're in the US). Your mother needs to be evaluated for further care.

 

Perhaps you could call around for your sister? My MIL has dementia and while they prefer to keep people home as long as possible, they want care to go to people who need it. This is completely separate from SSI benefits. Call the local social services and ask them for information about what's available for local care.

 

My FIL gets respite care and help with planning legal, medical, and evaluating when she should be in care outside the home. It sounds like your mother has reached this point. She needs to be evaluated by a doctor. Then your family can figure out what to do next.

[curlylocks]

Next time she rages/threatens suicide, call 911. She will be removed from the home, taken to the hospital.

 

Then, your sister CAN refuse to take her home, citing safety issues, etc.

 

They will HAVE to keep her, find a place for her.

 

Frankly, what your mom wants isn't the primary issue here. Safety is. And she's in a situation where that is compromised, due to her behaviours. Your sister cannot adequately manage her behaviours in such a way to ensure both her safety, and your mom's.

 

Not to mention your sister's emotional and physical health.

 

I absolutely would NOT bring her into your home. If an adult is having trouble dealing w/her behaviour, the impact on the kids would be huge. They would likely feel unsafe and miserable in their own home, and that's not right or fair for them.

 

It just doesn't seem to be in the best interest of your children. I'm not talking preferences here, but the potential for damage, physically and emotionally. Consider it...what would your kids think/feel if Gma starts raging, threatening suicide, etc? How would the kids feel being constantly criticized, Mom being verbally disparaged, Mom and Dad stressed out and arguing? (Cause it *would* happen. Trust me.)

 

:iagree: -- BTDT with my MIL...it is not an easy decision to make, but necessary for everyone's well-being.

[Impish]

When talking to Drs, etc, your sister needs to be completely blunt and honest about her ability to cope w/your mother. Trying to hide the stress, etc isn't going to do anyone favours.

 

Ppl tend to try and minimize things when talking to professionals, I've found.

[GoVanGogh]

:grouphug:

My thoughts and prayers go out to you.

 

We had a glimpse of this earlier this year with my mother. Thankfully, her husband is still alive and able to deal with it. But all of us siblings know our time is coming and are - quite frankly - freaked out.

 

I really admire families that are able to take in aging parents or grandparents. But it really is not feasible when you add in dementia, mental illness or - in my mother's case - extreme obesity and history of falls.

 

Can you call her doctors and ask about local resources?

I live long distance, but was quite surprised at how much help my mom's doctors were, despite privacy laws.

 

:grouphug:

[Katy]

Your mom's opinion no longer matters. If she is in a state that she is harming others or threatening to harm herself, she should be in a locked dementia ward. Most nursing homes have them. In the event that someone is so violent in a nursing home that they are dangerous, many times they will be sent to the hospital, and many times the nursing homes refuse to take them back. In that event, those patients live in the hospital until such time as the social workers there find a place that will take them.

 

Most importantly, your sister needs a break. In my case, with my nursing experience, if someone in our immediate family developed dementia, I would probably take them into my home. Having said that, I have enough experience to not take any hurtful things they might say personally. If this person was in the wandering stage of dementia, where they were likely to go for a walk and get lost, or leave a stove on unattended, or threaten to hurt themselves or anyone else, I would put them in a locked unit of a nursing home until they reached the point they were no longer mobile enough to harm anyone.

This is not giving up on someone. You can go visit them every day. In fact, I'd go visit them several times a day some times, and always vary the time I went. Nursing home residents whose families show up often, and at varied times get preferential treatment. They get cleaned up first, they get clean clothing first, they get fed their favorite foods more often.

 

It's time to figure out who should make end of life decisions for your mom. You do not want to be in a situation where your extended family is fighting over whether to save her or let her go. This will probably be years down the road, but you need to figure it out before it's an issue.

[Katy]

One other brief note on dementia-

 

oftentimes a patient will not remember 90 seconds previously, but they remember their mood. They don't know why they are angry, they're just angry. They don't know why someone in the room is radiating hostility, but they feel it and will defensively reflect hostility back.

 

If you put a hot pack of rice around their neck to warm them up, and give them candy, and relieve any little discomforts they have to the best of your ability, they are happier. They don't remember why they're happier, they just are. And they're much less likely to be combative when you suggest they sit in their favorite chair and watch their favorite tv show.

[Denisemomof4]

I would not bring an unmedicated, hostile, irrational dementia patient into my home to live. I woukd be awful for everyone, especially the kids.

 

I brought my mom home when she had end stage dementia. She lived with us for seven months. NO WAY could I have handled her unmedicated. Even medicated there were tmes she was violent.

 

I would make some calls to help your sister out. Start with a dementia assoc in sis's state. Find out what your mother's optins are. It doesn't matter that your mom doesn't want to live in a facility or take meds. She doesn't have the right to ruin other lives.

[Harriet Vane]

Your mom's opinion no longer matters. If she is in a state that she is harming others or threatening to harm herself, she should be in a locked dementia ward. Most nursing homes have them. In the event that someone is so violent in a nursing home that they are dangerous, many times they will be sent to the hospital, and many times the nursing homes refuse to take them back. In that event, those patients live in the hospital until such time as the social workers there find a place that will take them.

 

Most importantly, your sister needs a break. In my case, with my nursing experience, if someone in our immediate family developed dementia, I would probably take them into my home. Having said that, I have enough experience to not take any hurtful things they might say personally. If this person was in the wandering stage of dementia, where they were likely to go for a walk and get lost, or leave a stove on unattended, or threaten to hurt themselves or anyone else, I would put them in a locked unit of a nursing home until they reached the point they were no longer mobile enough to harm anyone.

This is not giving up on someone. You can go visit them every day. In fact, I'd go visit them several times a day some times, and always vary the time I went. Nursing home residents whose families show up often, and at varied times get preferential treatment. They get cleaned up first, they get clean clothing first, they get fed their favorite foods more often.

 

It's time to figure out who should make end of life decisions for your mom. You do not want to be in a situation where your extended family is fighting over whether to save her or let her go. This will probably be years down the road, but you need to figure it out before it's an issue.

:iagree::grouphug:

[NorthwestMom]

For one year I took care of my mother who had Alzheimer's in my home. It was incredibly hard and she had not reached the level of rage and obstinence that your has.

 

You have gotten excellent advice on this thread. Do NOT bring her into your home.

 

It will not work to sleep in a camper while she is in your house. She needs supervision 24/7. If she is angry she might act out and hurt someone, hurt herself, or put everyone in danger in the house. Would your kids sleep in the house alone with her? What if she turned on the stove and forgot? That HAPPENS. She will get angry for no discernible reason and lash out. My mother once threw a butter knife at a resident in her facility and hit him on the eyebrow with it, and it bled so much he needed stitches. What if that was your child? Furthermore, she is only going to become less competent. It won't get better. Then what?

 

We had to move my mother out when she became delusional that we weren't feeding our 5mo baby enough and it was her job to sneak the baby food. I pulled large chunks of cheese and banana out of my exclusively-breastfed baby's mouth. We were SO LUCKY that she did not choke. My mom was not angry at that point, just confused. The anger came later. We found a dementia-care facility with a locked floor and it was a lifesaver.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[DusksAngel]

As a caregiver to my grandmother, who has Alzheimer's, I have to agree with what's been said so far. You (your family) need to have her placed in a facility (nursing home or institution) where she can be monitored and where everyone can be safe. Unfortunately, she won't get better, only worse.

[Katy]

I've been washing dishes but my heart has been with you and your sister.

 

You should know something about nursing home patients - there are three types of people who move in there.

 

1) Hospice patients who are so sick they aren't aware of their surroundings most of the time.

 

2) Elderly people who realize they can no longer care for themselves as well as they should and who think getting help at a home will give them and their families more dignity than relying on family so they choose to go.

 

3) The VAST majority, who are in some stage of dementia, are at a stage where their families are overwhelmed, they refuse to go in, and eventually are forced to anyway. After a few weeks of adjustment, their anger dissipates and they are fine. If their families put them in a home before they were totally overwhelmed the families are relieved and come to visit often. If they waited too long and took the family member's dementia personally, sometimes they never come to see the person again.

 

I think it's VERY important to put someone in a home before you are so hurt you don't love them anymore. If your sister can't do that, try and put your mom in a nursing home closer to you. Realize that even though your sister is exhausted, she may lash out at you if/when you take over your mother's care. Do not take this personally, she will be struggling with her own feelings of failure EVEN THOUGH SHE SHOULDN'T. Find one with as few state deficiencies as possible. Find one who specializes in dementia care if possible.

 

Being in a nursing home often gives people MORE of a sense of dignity than they would have living at home. If you're not able to do something at home (for example, if you're incontinent), it might feel like a failure. It might be a huge inconvenience for a caregiver. If you need a little help from a person wearing medical scrubs, it's not personal, they're there to help you. It's a different dynamic. And then family members get to still see the part of their family member who is still them, not their disease process.

 

There is a several week or several month adjustment period though, when they may be angry. Be prepared for that and do NOT take it personally.

 

Also, you should probably educate yourself on dementia, and on what the stages are, so when you see her getting worse you'll know what to expect. Someone with dementia who is also diabetic and who refuses to eat right or take medicine will probably progress through the stages of dementia a lot faster than the average person with, say, alzheimer's.

[SitLongTalkMuch]

As a caregiver to my grandmother, who has Alzheimer's, I have to agree with what's been said so far. You (your family) need to have her placed in a facility (nursing home or institution) where she can be monitored and where everyone can be safe. Unfortunately, she won't get better, only worse.

 

I cared for my grandmother to give my aunt & uncle a break probably 5 or 6 times a year. Sometimes for a long weekend, other times for several weeks. I finally had to stop for two reasons.

 

1. My kids were scared when she was here. They remembered her lucid and loving and it had become terrible. I'll never forget my oldest (probably about 8 yo at the time) begging for her not to come and stay.

 

2. When she was here my normally loving stable marriage WAS NOT. By day 3 we were arguing & yelling. My aunt & uncles 3 week AK cruise about did us in.

 

I loved my grandmother dearly and had a very close relationship with her, but when she was out of her normal routine and enviroment it was horrible. She'd wander all night, accuse of hiding her medicine (and try to take it multiple times a day), argue...

[prairiewindmomma]

Contact the agency on aging (or whatever it's called in the state in which she lives) and ask to find out what resources are available to her. She may qualify under a nursing home evaluation....

 

Our area has a number of nursing homes that are designed for patients with dementia.....as well as day care and drop in respite care.

 

From your post, it really sounds like your family needs to look at some long term care options....

[TeenagerMom]

If she is anywhere near Ft Smith or Clarksville, there are Geriatric Mental Health units. In Ft Smith, it is at Sparks Hospital. If she threatens suicide again, have your Sister call an ambulance or bring her to a local e.r. Most Psych units won't accept her as a patient unless someone is willing to have her committed or you can call Adult Protective Services and they may be able to step in and take guardianship of her to get her into a facility.

[Blueridge]

Thank you all for your kind help. It seems like the opinion here is 100% in favor of us *not* having mom here. I agree, but it still makes me feel like an awful daughter. I'm going to try and call my sis again tomorrow and see how she is coping. I will also start looking at places we have here locally, but I think it would be so much easier if she could stay somewhere there. My sis did look at one facility but it was $1,700 a month, and we just don't have it. I'm not sure what benefits she was referring to, but I will find out. I appreciate you all for helping me sort through this. Heartbreaking. She was always difficult to please, but I still miss my mom. :crying:

[Denisemomof4]

Thank you all for your kind help. It seems like the opinion here is 100% in favor of us *not* having mom here. I agree, but it still makes me feel like an awful daughter. I'm going to try and call my sis again tomorrow and see how she is coping. I will also start looking at places we have here locally, but I think it would be so much easier if she could stay somewhere there. My sis did look at one facility but it was $1,700 a month, and we just don't have it. I'm not sure what benefits she was referring to, but I will find out. I appreciate you all for helping me sort through this. Heartbreaking. She was always difficult to please, but I still miss my mom. :crying:

 

Your mom must have some sort of insurance, doesn't she? medicaid? Medicare?

 

I want to reiterate that an UNMEDICATED dementia parent who is already irrational and hostile wouldn't be safe to bring in the home, especially with children. And you have to think of her wandering away, turning on the stove then leaving it, etc. It was easier for me because my mom was a total invalid, confined to a wheelchair. It made things very difficult because she needed full care, but at least she couldn't wander away.

 

If your moyher as at a facility near you, you could always bring her to your home for weekends, etc.

[kalanamak]

Call and try to speak to a social worker at the hospital in the cachement area where your mother lives. Ask for options/legalities with money etc.

 

Any time mom threatens to hurt self or others, does something dangerous, etc, have sis call for help (crisis or police). While an involuntary removal sounds horrendous, I have seen some very happy old ladies once medications have been started.

 

Is mom taking care of her sugars? Can her MD get eldercare in the area involved due to her being "gravely disabled" (unable to meet her basic needs for health and medical care).

[Impish]

If your moyher as at a facility near you, you could always bring her to your home for weekends, etc.

*Gently*

From experience, I would truly not recommend this. First of all, routine and familiar setting becomes incredibly important. Having her routine disrupted would be frightening for her, and then the potential for behaviours goes through the roof.

 

Plus, depending on how things are, what will you do if she refuses to leave and go back to the facility?

 

I would totally encourage visiting...but not taking her out for visits. Not w/dementia.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

What about daycare? I drove an ambulette, and most of my daycare patients had dementia. That gives a bit of a break while you figure out the next step.

[sparrow]

Thank you all for your kind help. It seems like the opinion here is 100% in favor of us *not* having mom here. I agree, but it still makes me feel like an awful daughter. I'm going to try and call my sis again tomorrow and see how she is coping. I will also start looking at places we have here locally, but I think it would be so much easier if she could stay somewhere there. My sis did look at one facility but it was $1,700 a month, and we just don't have it. I'm not sure what benefits she was referring to, but I will find out. I appreciate you all for helping me sort through this. Heartbreaking. She was always difficult to please, but I still miss my mom. :crying:

 

I'm so sorry. I miss my mom, too.

 

My dad cared for my mother, with a lot of help from me (think 3am emergency calls), last year. It is an *exhausting* job. It did put my dad in the hospital for 4 days. We had finally reached a point of checking into facilities when the decision was made for us. She fell and broke her hip. Her inability to follow instructions due to the dementia, and her natural stubbornness ;), makes rehab virtually impossible. She won't walk again and was removed from PT after the required time. She went directly from the hospital to the nursing home. It definitely made things easier for us. We didn't have to make the horrible drive to the facility and "drop her off" and when she asked why she was there, we kept reminding her that she broke her hip.

 

She is more comfortable there than she was at home. She was wracked with fear and anxiety at home. Her meds have been adjusted and she is much more relaxed. It took some time to get the right dosages. She screamed and had complaints against her, but things are going very well now. My dad spends 3 hours with her every day for dinner and the evening news.

 

Has your family talked to an estate planning attorney? I think this would be a good step to take at this time. Many patients in nursing homes are using Medicaid for long term care. There is a helpful list of terminology here:

 

http://www.medicare.gov/nursing/payment.asp

[Danestress]

I know it's hard. But I am just looking at your children's ages and thinking that they could manage without you for a couple of weeks. I get why everyone is saying you can't bring her to your house, but you know that your sister shouldn't have to either, and some one has to for the next few weeks, or she's going to be .... what? On the street?

 

I think you need to go and help your sister. Work every angle. Talk to people at the counsel on aging, figure out what kind of insurance she might have, or what Medicaid she might be eligible for, call the Alzheimer's local organization for advice. See your mother's doctor with her, find out how you might be able to stabalize her medically, talk about treatment options, talk about commitment options, talk to an attorney about getting a guardianship over her. It probably would have been better, when she made suicide threats, to seek a 36 hour involuntary commitment. I would think that might be a GOOD thing for your family to start getting some services and advice.

 

There are so many ways to attack this problem, and your sister is worn out from six years of coping with it. On the other hand, your mother may well have a total meltdown if you try to just up and move her. Changes often send people with dementia into a major tailspin.

 

Buy, "The 36 Hour Day" about caring for someone with AD.

 

I don't think you should necessarily bring your mother home with you. But I think you should go if there is any possible way you can - just to help your sister sort this out and to try to love on your mother who, even if she was a difficult person, probably never wanted to turn out like this. And many of us will turn out just like this - badly affected by a disease beyond our control. I hope that if I turn out that way, my sons won't have to have me move in with them. But I do hope they will show up, work the possibilities, and try to get me situated somewhere I can be safe and well cared for. A lot of the really difficult behavior with dementia is rooted in anxiety.

 

My father did end up in an Alzheimer's unit. It was a nice place, but so expensive. Most of us could never afford that for very long, and it makes me sad to think that there is no amount of saving for the future that will provide adequate care for long term AD unless the patient was really quite wealthy. Most of us will end up in very second rate places or will live with family members who can barely manage to cope with us.

 

It actually does make me want to die if I start having signs of dementia.

[Denisemomof4]

*Gently*

From experience, I would truly not recommend this. First of all, routine and familiar setting becomes incredibly important. Having her routine disrupted would be frightening for her, and then the potential for behaviours goes through the roof.

 

Plus, depending on how things are, what will you do if she refuses to leave and go back to the facility?

 

I would totally encourage visiting...but not taking her out for visits. Not w/dementia.

 

I had heard that before but we couldn't leave my mom in the nursing home over the holidays. I guess we were lucky because that was never an issue with us. If it proved to be too stressful we would have just celebrated holidays with her at the facility. But she was easy and we did a lot of visits in my home before moving her in permanently.

 

ETA. I actually remember where we heard this advice, Imp. It was at the facility where my MIL was at. We never did bring her here because I don't think we could have gotten her to leave. She was always nasty so it was easy for me to say NO to her coming here.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Denisemomof4

[Cera]

Next time she rages/threatens suicide, call 911. She will be removed from the home, taken to the hospital.

 

Then, your sister CAN refuse to take her home, citing safety issues, etc.

 

They will HAVE to keep her, find a place for her.

 

Frankly, what your mom wants isn't the primary issue here. Safety is. And she's in a situation where that is compromised, due to her behaviours. Your sister cannot adequately manage her behaviours in such a way to ensure both her safety, and your mom's.

 

Not to mention your sister's emotional and physical health.

 

I absolutely would NOT bring her into your home. If an adult is having trouble dealing w/her behaviour, the impact on the kids would be huge. They would likely feel unsafe and miserable in their own home, and that's not right or fair for them.

 

It just doesn't seem to be in the best interest of your children. I'm not talking preferences here, but the potential for damage, physically and emotionally. Consider it...what would your kids think/feel if Gma starts raging, threatening suicide, etc? How would the kids feel being constantly criticized, Mom being verbally disparaged, Mom and Dad stressed out and arguing? (Cause it *would* happen. Trust me.)

 

 

:iagree:

[Alphabetika]

Thank you all for your kind help. It seems like the opinion here is 100% in favor of us *not* having mom here. I agree, but it still makes me feel like an awful daughter. I'm going to try and call my sis again tomorrow and see how she is coping. I will also start looking at places we have here locally, but I think it would be so much easier if she could stay somewhere there. My sis did look at one facility but it was $1,700 a month, and we just don't have it. I'm not sure what benefits she was referring to, but I will find out. I appreciate you all for helping me sort through this. Heartbreaking. She was always difficult to please, but I still miss my mom. :crying:

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Please, please, PLEASE don't think of yourself as an awful daughter. We cared for my mom in our home half time for five years after my dad died, then for the full last year of her life. She didn't have mental issues, (except for increasing depression and anxiety due to her physical state) only increasingly severe physical ones which eventually led to her deciding to end dialysis and, consequently, her life. She spent the last month of her life in a care facility because it simply wasn't safe for her to be here anymore. (Long story with this, involving cancer, daily radiation, multiple 911 calls and ER trips, accelerated diabetes and kidney failuire, fear, sadness, trauma on all counts).

 

I realized at some point that, though she was still my mom, in a sense she wasn't "my mom" anymore. It's one thing to say that you're going to care for your mom when she's the mom you always knew and loved. But it's a completely different thing when your mom has changed, physically, mentally or emotionally, into someone whose needs you can no longer reasonably meet. Of course she's still your mom and you still love her, but she has become so different, so needy, so much *not* the same mom, that you should have no shame in deciding to help her get the help she needs. You're still her daughter but someone else needs to play the caretaker role for you, for reasons you've seen vividly played out in your sister's life.

 

I'm saying all of this gently from the perspective of having been in a somewhat similar situation. Please don't beat yourself up. You need all the grace you can get. Others will give that to you. Give it to yourself, too. :grouphug:

Edited July 24, 2012 by Alphabetika

[SonshineLearner]

Wow, that's hard. Try to get in touch with someone who knows about services there, is my suggestion. So sorry!! Right now I can't honestly say that it gets to be your mom's decision. At this point, she can't probably make the best decisions :( So... very, very sorry :(

[Blueridge]

Ladies, your thoughtful help actually brought me to tears this morning. I am probably feeling this on too many levels right now. I feel angry with the loss of my mom as I've always known her. I feel frustrated that we had to move 2 states away from her and have grown farther apart these 6 years. I feel ashamed that I've been OK with my sister dealing with her on a daily basis. I feel cheated by my selfish brother who lives in a new, custom built 4,000 foot home and refuses to do or say anything to help (don't even get me started about him). I feel awkward at my lack of understanding and knowledge of Mom's condition. I feel broken hearted that my girls will lose their relationship with their grandmother. I feel terrified that this is what I might personally face as I grow old. I pride myself on being relatively knowledgable about proper nutrition and natural remedies and have no earthly idea how to transfer my appreciation for life and health onto my mother. I want to help her. I want to feed her better and show her some patience and find some kind of miracle to change her current circumstance, and I am hit in the face with the fact that I just can't make it better. Sorry for using the hive as a psychologist couch! :blushing: Just realize how much I have appreciated your input and wisdom. I feel this morning like making a trip to my sister's home might be a workable, if temporary, solution. At least we can all sit down together and talk about possibilities. I can be with her again and give sis a break. I can help with the needs of the moment. I can gather some of the 'remains of the day'. Thank you.

[curlylocks]

Ladies, your thoughtful help actually brought me to tears this morning. I am probably feeling this on too many levels right now. I feel angry with the loss of my mom as I've always known her. I feel frustrated that we had to move 2 states away from her and have grown farther apart these 6 years. I feel ashamed that I've been OK with my sister dealing with her on a daily basis. I feel cheated by my selfish brother who lives in a new, custom built 4,000 foot home and refuses to do or say anything to help (don't even get me started about him). I feel awkward at my lack of understanding and knowledge of Mom's condition. I feel broken hearted that my girls will lose their relationship with their grandmother. I feel terrified that this is what I might personally face as I grow old. I pride myself on being relatively knowledgable about proper nutrition and natural remedies and have no earthly idea how to transfer my appreciation for life and health onto my mother. I want to help her. I want to feed her better and show her some patience and find some kind of miracle to change her current circumstance, and I am hit in the face with the fact that I just can't make it better. Sorry for using the hive as a psychologist couch! :blushing: Just realize how much I have appreciated your input and wisdom. I feel this morning like making a trip to my sister's home might be a workable, if temporary, solution. At least we can all sit down together and talk about possibilities. I can be with her again and give sis a break. I can help with the needs of the moment. I can gather some of the 'remains of the day'. Thank you.

 

:grouphug: to you today...

 

These are all very valid feelings...ones that I struggled with as well. It stinks to feel so helpless...but know that we are "behind" you, holding you up in prayer.

[nono]

I feel cheated by my selfish brother who lives in a new, custom built 4,000 foot home and refuses to do or say anything to help (don't even get me started about him).

 

Well, in his defense, he's probably spending all his time cleaning.... ;)

 

 

You should go to your sister. So much of this is easier if you are there together. My dsis and I went through a similar thing with my Mom (though she's not suicidal or angry demented). You sis will still have to be the lead, but your presence will probably be a huge help to her!

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Tammyla]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Ladies, your thoughtful help actually brought me to tears this morning. I am probably feeling this on too many levels right now. I feel angry with the loss of my mom as I've always known her. I feel frustrated that we had to move 2 states away from her and have grown farther apart these 6 years. I feel ashamed that I've been OK with my sister dealing with her on a daily basis. I feel cheated by my selfish brother who lives in a new, custom built 4,000 foot home and refuses to do or say anything to help (don't even get me started about him). I feel awkward at my lack of understanding and knowledge of Mom's condition. I feel broken hearted that my girls will lose their relationship with their grandmother. I feel terrified that this is what I might personally face as I grow old. I pride myself on being relatively knowledgable about proper nutrition and natural remedies and have no earthly idea how to transfer my appreciation for life and health onto my mother. I want to help her. I want to feed her better and show her some patience and find some kind of miracle to change her current circumstance, and I am hit in the face with the fact that I just can't make it better. Sorry for using the hive as a psychologist couch! :blushing: Just realize how much I have appreciated your input and wisdom. I feel this morning like making a trip to my sister's home might be a workable, if temporary, solution. At least we can all sit down together and talk about possibilities. I can be with her again and give sis a break. I can help with the needs of the moment. I can gather some of the 'remains of the day'. Thank you.

[Katy]

Update?

[OrganicAnn]

You need to make this decision with your siblings. With dementia it is tricky because your mom will continue to decline and it is difficult to determine when/where to draw the line. She probably needs to be in an assisted living place that will not allow her to wander. Some older people actually like it, since they have activities and other older people to meet and interact with. But many don't. But her safety is first concern. It is obvious that it isn't working having her live with your sister.

 

Does your mom have any assets that you can liquidate to pay of it? You need to get your brother to start being involved. Can your uncle or another family member talk to him? Sounds like it is time for a family meeting.

[Robin M]

Does your sister have a living trust, power of attorney or medical poa regarding mother and her affairs? If she does, then she can make the decision and put her in a nursing facility.

[Catwoman]

Next time she rages/threatens suicide, call 911. She will be removed from the home, taken to the hospital.

 

Then, your sister CAN refuse to take her home, citing safety issues, etc.

 

They will HAVE to keep her, find a place for her.

 

Frankly, what your mom wants isn't the primary issue here. Safety is. And she's in a situation where that is compromised, due to her behaviours. Your sister cannot adequately manage her behaviours in such a way to ensure both her safety, and your mom's.

 

Not to mention your sister's emotional and physical health.

 

I absolutely would NOT bring her into your home. If an adult is having trouble dealing w/her behaviour, the impact on the kids would be huge. They would likely feel unsafe and miserable in their own home, and that's not right or fair for them.

 

It just doesn't seem to be in the best interest of your children. I'm not talking preferences here, but the potential for damage, physically and emotionally. Consider it...what would your kids think/feel if Gma starts raging, threatening suicide, etc? How would the kids feel being constantly criticized, Mom being verbally disparaged, Mom and Dad stressed out and arguing? (Cause it *would* happen. Trust me.)

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

Yes. This. Exactly.

 

If you let her move in with you, you will be stuck, 24/7, until the day your mother dies or gets so bad that she has no idea where she is any more. Your sister will be too smart to ever take her back, and it's pretty clear that your brother isn't going to do it, so please don't have her in your home for even a day! (Believe me, I know I sound extreme, but something like this happened to a friend of mine, who "helped out" by taking her mom in "for a few days" after she was released from the hospital after she fell and hurt herself, and her sibling refused to take her back -- and all of her siblings refused to help pay for a nursing home. Let's just say that my friend went through the war for months, until she was finally able to find a facility that would accept a relatively affordable lump sum payment, plus her mom's social security check.)

 

PLEASE don't put yourself and your family in this kind of situation. At best, you'll be exhausted and stressed. At worst, your mom could set the house on fire at 3am when everyone is asleep.

 

It sounds like your mom needs to be in a nursing home or, at the very least, in an assisted living facility that will escalate to nursing home care as her dementia progresses.

 

I know I sound heartless, but I'm truly thinking of you and your family. I'm very sorry about your mom, but I really don't think you will be able to deal with the care that she will require.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Edited July 25, 2012 by Catwoman