Choosing the lesser of two evils

[saraha]

I was involved in a short conversation the other day that got me thinking.

 

Suppose you had been raising your kids on a typical american diet, a mixture of homemade and processed foods, and generally fixed meals that they liked while they were growing, Also suppose that you had no food allergies/sensitivities/special diet. Now say you lost all regular income and were getting cash were you could (odd jobs etc) but were making enough that you could feed your family beans and rice. BUT you know your kids hate rice and generally refuse to eat it. Would you fix it for most meals anyway and assume when they get hungry enough they will eat it, or would you apply for food stamps so you can provide a healthier diet and garuntee there will be food they will eat?

[amy g.]

I would fix them beans and rice, and consider it a good learning and growing opportunity for them.

[gingersmom]

I would get food stamps and pretend it was business as usual.

 

Children do not need to know about parents dire financial situation.

[Lara in Colo]

I have been there and I ended up volunteering at a food bank to feed my children. Never the less, they ate what I could provide and we did not utilize food stamps.

 

If I could not go this route, I would do the beans and rice route FOR A TIME.

Much past 6 months with little variety, and I would use food stamps.

[meggie]

Rice and beans. Food stamps when you can't afford that. That's what we did when DH was out of work and we went through our emergency fund. I disagree with the mentality that children can't know that you are struggling financially. Just my opinion.

[Guest]

We did the beans and rice, lots of spaghetti, pasta, etc for awhile. We also took advantage of the Angel Food ministry, where you could get a large quantity of food for about $25. It was a good, learning experience for us in which we really learned to be thankful.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Beans and rice until I couldn't afford that, then government aid if necessary.

 

I don't believe in kids going hungry, ever, any kids anywhere, but I'm not sorry for a child who gets fed three meals a day plus a snack of very plain and wholesome food.

 

(It helps to alternate your cheap eats. Start thinking in categories, and make sure to keep it as balanced as possible:

 

1. Proteins: beans, legumes, nuts, seeds, eggs, meat used sparingly, yogurt, milk

2. Starches: rice, pasta, potato, yam, squash, flour, buckwheat, corn

3. Vegetables: any and all you can get your hands on

4. Fruits: ditto

5. Fats: olive oil, butter, peanut butter, cheese

 

So meals could look like:

 

Potato bean soup, grilled cheese sandwich

Beans and rice from my favorite cookbook: 366 Delicious Ways to Cook Rice, Beans, and Grains by Andrea Chesman

Buckwheat pancakes and a fried egg

Yogurt, whole-grain muffins, fruit cup, vegetable crudites

Pasta and beans with greens on the side

Tuna salad sandwich, macaroni and cheese, 1/2 apple

Bean and cheese burrito on homemade chapati

Chicken drumstick, baked yam with butter and brown sugar, green beans

 

I could go on all day. You can do whole foods cheap if you know quick recipes and you've got the skills and time. Eating 'beans and rice' doesn't mean that's all you eat; it means that's how cheaply you eat.)

 

Now, if you can't or won't learn to make super-frugal, super-wholesome foods for your family on a fraction of the budget you used to have, then please do get the food stamps. The first rule is Feed The Kids.

 

:grouphug:

[creekland]

My kids did very well understanding and pulling together as a family when our income dropped a ton. In hindsight, it was one of the best things that happened. They know what comes in and what needs to go out financially. They didn't ask for expensive things or new things - and it was a drastic change to our lifestyle.

 

I'd go beans and rice and throw some pasta in there when you can. As a last resort and only a last resort would I turn to food stamps. For us, my mom helped us out quite a bit.

 

Also for us, we also have our garden and my guys hunt deer (in season). Both of those help with the food bill. The hunting license is a cost, but compared to the pounds in meat, it's cheap. We're fortunate that we have tons of deer on our property so are ensured of getting a couple.

 

I am not of the camp that believes in sheltering children financially. I believe in including them in the "fight" to pull together to keep the family going. Mine learned a bit about economics. Now that they are teens I'm GLAD to not see mine spending frivolously as the vast majority of their peers do. I'm also glad mine will eat essentially anything without complaining. Quite a bit of good has come from our "poor" situation.

[justLisa]

I would get food stamps and pretend it was business as usual.

 

Children do not need to know about parents dire financial situation.

 

Yes this.

[happypamama]

If I felt that nutritionally, the children were suffering, I'd opt for the food stamps. If I felt that they were fine nutritionally, even if they didn't like it, I'd try the beans and rice for a while, but like a PP said, maybe for about 6 months. My concern about doing the beans and rice, pasta, high carb, etc. diet is the possible impact on sugar levels and implications for diabetes and such down the road. I notice a huge difference in my children's behavior and ability to focus and learn when they eat a lot of white carbs, and if food stamps let me avoid that, I'd figure that we'd paid in plenty in the past (and would eventually again), and I'd use the food stamps and not worry about it.

 

I'd also do whatever I could to make money stretch as far as possible. Food stamps in our area actually mean bonuses at the farmer's market -- if you use food stamps to buy, I think it is, $10 worth of food, they'll give you $20 worth.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Eating cheaply doesn't have to mean lots of white carbs or increasing a child's risk of diabetes. People all over the world eat low-meat diets without that happening. Lots of children are raised vegetarian with no ill effects.

 

It's when you don't have adequate protein and vegetables, and you add in sugared and processed foods, low activity, and large portions that you have a problem.

 

Many poor people do suffer nutritionally in America. It's a serious problem. The cookies, chips, and fake foods are the cheapest options unless you know what to do with carrots, beans, onions, greens, and a bit of meat.

 

We've always lacked a little for grocery money, but my kids could not be healthier. They get whole foods. They get tons of exercise. They drink only water, and sleep and grow very well. It can be done. Mothers all over the world are doing it. It takes some learning, but there are 1000 books and the whole internet to learn how.

[happyhomemaker]

...I'd figure that we'd paid in plenty in the past (and would eventually again), and I'd use the food stamps and not worry about

 

:iagree: When we were in this situation, we figured that we have been forced to pay into the system so we should be able to use it if need be. I would get the food stamps and give your kids a good meal.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

:iagree: When we were in this situation, we figured that we have been forced to pay into the system so we should be able to use it if need be. I would get the food stamps and give your kids a good meal.

 

What is your definition of a good meal?

[Seasider]

I think there's a big difference between not eating sufficiently (including nutritiously balanced) and not eating preferably.

 

I believe all of us would choose to eat according to our preferences, especially the kids. But if a kid is seriously hungry and still turning down food based on preference rather than need to eat, well, part of me thinks that's got a lot to do with stubbornness. I do know some children have bona fide allergy (here here!) and texture issues, I'm just saying that most of them are really good at holding out for the things they like the taste of (here here, again!). It may take a readjustment period. That, honestly, is harder on the cook than on the diners, as a mom's sense of success and value is typically closely tied to nourishing her children.

 

Without being preachy, it's a good time for some very gentle instruction in thankfulness.

 

I would start with the "a truly hungry kid will eventually eat" mindset, as long as I could provide nutritious meals. If I reached the point where I couldn't make good nutrition available without help, only then would I go for the stamps.

 

I don't think you have to be vocal and thorough with the reasoning, ie, we don't have any money for the food you would rather have. But I also don't believe you have to completely shelter them. My older family members were folks of the strongest character, and I am certain that the hard times their depression-era families endured helped mold them into resilient adults. They certainly didn't grow up with today's prevalent entitlement mentality.

[Unicorn.]

I would get food stamps and pretend it was business as usual.

 

Children do not need to know about parents dire financial situation.

 

Why not? So they should grow up thinking life is always good, and not know how to handle a situation if it happens to them? They should learn that the entire family has to make sacrifices sometimes. I don't understand the sentiment that kids can't (and shouldn't have to) handle bad news or family crisis. :confused:

 

Op, plenty of people live on beans and rice and are quite healthy. If you truly need the food stamps, then get them w/out shame or regret. But don't feel bad if you decide not to either!

[Parrothead]

I would get food stamps and pretend it was business as usual.

 

Children do not need to know about parents dire financial situation.

This is what leads people to get in over their heads. Either trying to keep up with the Jones' or trying to keep the truth of the matter from the kids.

 

My parents were this way with most things. To this day I don't know their financial situation or my family's medical history. "Don't worry the children" is their mantra. The children are in their 40s now and need to know some things.

[Parrothead]

Oh, to answer the question. I wouldn't waste the money on the rice that the kids won't eat. I'd sub oats, barley, other grains.

[happi duck]

As a kid we had a time of rice and beans. It wasn't traumatic. It was just how things needed to be, kwim?

[Alte Veste Academy]

:grouphug: to you, OP. I think it is a personal decision whether or not to take assistance and whether or not to tell the kids. I would make different decisions based on kids' ages, to be honest.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy

[Harriet Vane]

Beans and rice, and other whole foods. Potatoes, oatmeal, barley, frozen vegetables. Whatever it takes.

 

I would take food stamps if necessary, but would try my darndest for whole foods.

 

Of course, I already cook from scratch and know how to cook whole foods, so that helps.

[DesertDweller]

If I needed to and could get food stamps, I would.

 

If my kids didn't like beans and rice, I would find other things that were cheap. This is kind of what we're doing now. It may not always be the best nutritionally, but there is nothing wrong with grilled cheese, cup of soup, spaghetti w/ little or no meat, potatoes cooked in various ways, eggs, etc. I have found many things on sale that would work just as well as beans and rice.

 

I also don't think there's anything wrong with kids knowing that we're having financial problems. Life isn't perfect. It wasn't when I was growing up. I think it's good for them to know that we sometimes go through hard times. I want them to know that you buck up and learn to make the best of it until things get better.

[MiniBlondes]

If I felt that nutritionally, the children were suffering, I'd opt for the food stamps. If I felt that they were fine nutritionally, even if they didn't like it, I'd try the beans and rice for a while, but like a PP said, maybe for about 6 months.

 

This.

[gingersmom]

This is what leads people to get in over their heads. Either trying to keep up with the Jones' or trying to keep the truth of the matter from the kids.

 

My parents were this way with most things. To this day I don't know their financial situation or my family's medical history. "Don't worry the children" is their mantra. The children are in their 40s now and need to know some things.

 

I think thats a big stretch from being on food stamps and not telling your kids to "keeping up with the Jones'".

 

Children in their 40's learning about your financial issues is very different than a young child (say 6-8 years old).

[justamouse]

Beans and rice until I couldn't afford that, then government aid if necessary.

 

I don't believe in kids going hungry, ever, any kids anywhere, but I'm not sorry for a child who gets fed three meals a day plus a snack of very plain and wholesome food.

 

(It helps to alternate your cheap eats. Start thinking in categories, and make sure to keep it as balanced as possible:

 

1. Proteins: beans, legumes, nuts, seeds, eggs, meat used sparingly, yogurt, milk

2. Starches: rice, pasta, potato, yam, squash, flour, buckwheat, corn

3. Vegetables: any and all you can get your hands on

4. Fruits: ditto

5. Fats: olive oil, butter, peanut butter, cheese

 

So meals could look like:

 

Potato bean soup, grilled cheese sandwich

Beans and rice from my favorite cookbook: 366 Delicious Ways to Cook Rice, Beans, and Grains by Andrea Chesman

Buckwheat pancakes and a fried egg

Yogurt, whole-grain muffins, fruit cup, vegetable crudites

Pasta and beans with greens on the side

Tuna salad sandwich, macaroni and cheese, 1/2 apple

Bean and cheese burrito on homemade chapati

Chicken drumstick, baked yam with butter and brown sugar, green beans

 

I could go on all day. You can do whole foods cheap if you know quick recipes and you've got the skills and time. Eating 'beans and rice' doesn't mean that's all you eat; it means that's how cheaply you eat.)

 

Now, if you can't or won't learn to make super-frugal, super-wholesome foods for your family on a fraction of the budget you used to have, then please do get the food stamps. The first rule is Feed The Kids.

 

:grouphug:

I heart Tibbie.

 

What she said.

[Ritsumei]

My kids did very well understanding and pulling together as a family when our income dropped a ton. In hindsight, it was one of the best things that happened. They know what comes in and what needs to go out financially. They didn't ask for expensive things or new things - and it was a drastic change to our lifestyle.

 

I'd go beans and rice and throw some pasta in there when you can. As a last resort and only a last resort would I turn to food stamps. For us, my mom helped us out quite a bit.

 

Also for us, we also have our garden and my guys hunt deer (in season). Both of those help with the food bill. The hunting license is a cost, but compared to the pounds in meat, it's cheap. We're fortunate that we have tons of deer on our property so are ensured of getting a couple.

 

I am not of the camp that believes in sheltering children financially. I believe in including them in the "fight" to pull together to keep the family going. Mine learned a bit about economics. Now that they are teens I'm GLAD to not see mine spending frivolously as the vast majority of their peers do. I'm also glad mine will eat essentially anything without complaining. Quite a bit of good has come from our "poor" situation.

 

This. :iagree::iagree:

 

My parents were more of the "shelter the kids" camp, and several of us have struggled financially with things I think we could have learned or at least learned to do better if we'd been more privy to what our parents were working through. I feel like there was a lot of lost learning opportunities for some very important life lessons. And I wonder if I couldn't have avoided some very stupid mistakes with my money in college if I'd been less sheltered.

[ktgrok]

This. :iagree::iagree:

 

My parents were more of the "shelter the kids" camp, and several of us have struggled financially with things I think we could have learned or at least learned to do better if we'd been more privy to what our parents were working through. I feel like there was a lot of lost learning opportunities for some very important life lessons. And I wonder if I couldn't have avoided some very stupid mistakes with my money in college if I'd been less sheltered.

 

Yes, things were tight money wise when I was young, and I've grown up able to content with very little. My sister is almost 5 years younger, and my parents were in a better place financially during her young years, and she has NO clue how to be content without the latest thing. She is the one that recently told my Aunt, who wanted to finance a house for them at amazing terms (3 % interest, no down payment, no PMI, etc) that she wasn't able to settle for anything less than a 200,000 house..so she didn't get the loan. Meanwhile, my house is currently valued at about 90,000. So yeah....maybe a bit more financial hardship and doing without early on would have been good for her.

 

That said, there are degrees. I would not tell a child "I'm not sure how we are going to afford to eat." My parents never said that either, although I'm sure they were wondering that very thing. What they did was announce at the dinner table that "Things are tight right now, so everyone needs to adjust" or "We are going to have to tighten our belts for a bit." It was protrayed as us all working together to get through a tight spot. And we always DID get through it.

[ChristineW]

If I needed to and could get food stamps, I would.

 

If my kids didn't like beans and rice, I would find other things that were cheap. This is kind of what we're doing now. It may not always be the best nutritionally, but there is nothing wrong with grilled cheese, cup of soup, spaghetti w/ little or no meat, potatoes cooked in various ways, eggs, etc. I have found many things on sale that would work just as well as beans and rice.

 

I also don't think there's anything wrong with kids knowing that we're having financial problems. Life isn't perfect. It wasn't when I was growing up. I think it's good for them to know that we sometimes go through hard times. I want them to know that you buck up and learn to make the best of it until things get better.

 

:iagree: If you qualify for food stamps, use them. In my mind, taking government aid that you qualify for is no different than taking legitimate deductions from your taxes. If in good times you would take a mortgage interest deduction off your taxes, why is it different to get SNAP? Both take money from the federal coffers.

 

Christine

[Denise in Florida]

Beans and rice until I couldn't afford that, then government aid if necessary.

 

I don't believe in kids going hungry, ever, any kids anywhere, but I'm not sorry for a child who gets fed three meals a day plus a snack of very plain and wholesome food.

 

(It helps to alternate your cheap eats. Start thinking in categories, and make sure to keep it as balanced as possible:

 

1. Proteins: beans, legumes, nuts, seeds, eggs, meat used sparingly, yogurt, milk

2. Starches: rice, pasta, potato, yam, squash, flour, buckwheat, corn

3. Vegetables: any and all you can get your hands on

4. Fruits: ditto

5. Fats: olive oil, butter, peanut butter, cheese

 

So meals could look like:

 

Potato bean soup, grilled cheese sandwich

Beans and rice from my favorite cookbook: 366 Delicious Ways to Cook Rice, Beans, and Grains by Andrea Chesman

Buckwheat pancakes and a fried egg

Yogurt, whole-grain muffins, fruit cup, vegetable crudites

Pasta and beans with greens on the side

Tuna salad sandwich, macaroni and cheese, 1/2 apple

Bean and cheese burrito on homemade chapati

Chicken drumstick, baked yam with butter and brown sugar, green beans

 

I could go on all day. You can do whole foods cheap if you know quick recipes and you've got the skills and time. Eating 'beans and rice' doesn't mean that's all you eat; it means that's how cheaply you eat.)

 

Now, if you can't or won't learn to make super-frugal, super-wholesome foods for your family on a fraction of the budget you used to have, then please do get the food stamps. The first rule is Feed The Kids.

 

:grouphug:

 

That is a great list of nutrious filling foods. The buckwheat pancakes sound so good I might make some this weekend. yum

[Denise in Florida]

Get the food stamps if you need them, that is what they are there for.

 

My dh and I have worked all our lives (I am a SAHM mom now but I worked many years before that) and have always paid into the system. Other than two 3-month stints of unemployment after two different lay-offs we have not needed to ask the government for help. But I would in a second if I needed to feed my kids.

[In the Rain]

If you need food stamps to get fruits and veggies on the table, then don't feel bad getting them.

[Liz CA]

Would you fix it for most meals anyway and assume when they get hungry enough they will eat it, or would you apply for food stamps so you can provide a healthier diet and garuntee there will be food they will eat?

 

Not sure that rice & beans are not healthy - unless you are one of those people who needs a lot of meat to feel well, like my dh. But even in that case, short-term, I don't think it would harm anyone. As to their preferences, it may be a sacrifice of sorts but probably a very valuable lesson all the same.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I would at least go to the social services office and find out about the food stamps.

 

In suffolk county, NY, you have a 3 month wait for everything to be processed. You would get Retroactive FS (if you qualified for $400 per month, your first payment would be $1200), and could possibly qualify for emergency FS (walk out with some food money), but the emergency FS is a very low amount.

 

It's a bit better where i am in PA, but still a little wait.

 

IOW, you may need to eat beans and rice while waiting for FS. Do not wait until you can't even afford the beans and rice!

[happyhomemaker]

What is your definition of a good meal?

 

I didn't mean that beans and rice are not a good meal. Sorry if my comment came across that way. We have that around here, and I don't consider myself to be a worse mom on the nights I serve it or anything. It was a thoughtless tack-on to the end of my sentence, to be honest.

 

I think my situation, where going to rice and beans was still not enough to make basic ends meet, is coloring my viewpoint. Taking food stamps is not something I would do just to maintain my normal standard of living in all other areas. It's something I regard as a last resort when savings are gone and other basic needs are not being met. I don't remember if the OP said this is the case for them. Maybe I was just projecting my experience onto hers. I did that on a thread yesterday too. Maybe I should reread my posts before I post them...

[justamouse]

Rice and beans (more of a fejouada style) is my comfort food. With an over easy egg on top of the pile and a lot of hot sauce, I'm a happy girl.

 

I might not eat them in a long, long, time, but when I eat carbs, that's one meal that I would feel queen like eating.

[Mommy22alyns]

I would get food stamps and pretend it was business as usual.

 

Children do not need to know about parents dire financial situation.

 

Agreed. Rebecca has picked up on my fretting about money and it just breaks my heart to hear a 9 year old worrying about that.

[BigMamaBird]

Beans and Rice. I wouldn't go on assistance unless there was absolutely no other alternative. If I could afford Beans and Rice, that's what we'd eat.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I didn't mean that beans and rice are not a good meal. Sorry if my comment came across that way. We have that around here, and I don't consider myself to be a worse mom on the nights I serve it or anything. It was a thoughtless tack-on to the end of my sentence, to be honest.

 

I think my situation, where going to rice and beans was still not enough to make basic ends meet, is coloring my viewpoint. Taking food stamps is not something I would do just to maintain my normal standard of living in all other areas. It's something I regard as a last resort when savings are gone and other basic needs are not being met. I don't remember if the OP said this is the case for them. Maybe I was just projecting my experience onto hers. I did that on a thread yesterday too. Maybe I should reread my posts before I post them...

 

Oh, no worries, I didn't mean anything by asking! I just wondered if you had your kids on a paleo/primal diet or something similar.

 

amo filis made a good point, OP. If you are on a downward slide and you anticipate having no choice but to utilize food stamps, make sure to apply long before your cupboards are bare. It isn't always instant.

[stripe]

I don't think either choice is evil.

 

Unless the idea is to feed kids the same thing daily that they hate to keep one's pride.

 

Whatever route you take, your kids should be nourished. Food stamps and food pantries are there to help people in times of need. They are a way to keep your kids healthy and growing.

[saraha]

Thanks everyone for commenting. I just want to be clear, this is a hypothetical situation. It was a conversation that broke out at my inlaws one evening. People came down on both sides, according to gender. Fil and bil were for eating the beans. Mil and sils were for taking the food stamps.

[elegantlion]

I don't think either choice is evil.

 

Unless the idea is to feed kids the same thing daily that they hate to keep one's pride.

 

Whatever route you take, your kids should be nourished. Food stamps and food pantries are there to help people in times of need. They are a way to keep your kids healthy and growing.

 

This.

 

If you need food assistance and don't apply because of pride (not saying every one who doesn't is that way, but some are) they you also have an issue.

 

Food assistance is not just for the unemployed, some people work full-time and still qualify for aid. Food aid may allow you money to buy gas to go to work.

 

Whether you tell the children, imo, is child specific. Some kids need to know to understand the dynamic happening the family, some would worry unnecessarily.

[mom4him]

I disagree with the mentality that children can't know that you are struggling financially. Just my opinion.

 

:iagree: Our kids know that our finances have changed drastically in the past 1 1/2.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using food stamps when you really need to, nor is there anything wrong with kids getting along with a bit less than they are used to.

[EmilyK]

I don't think there is anything wrong with using food stamps. I wish people didn't feel ashamed of getting help when they need it, whether it is a pantry, food stamps, soup kitchen, whatever. I see shame with a lot of folks in those situations and it makes me sad.

[Tutor]

Rice and beans. Food stamps when you can't afford that. That's what we did when DH was out of work and we went through our emergency fund. I disagree with the mentality that children can't know that you are struggling financially. Just my opinion.

 

I agree with this. It is where we are now, as a matter of fact. Also, for low cost fruit and veggies, check your local farmers market; ask any of the farmers if they would be willing to sell you unsold food at the end of the day for cheap. Many will so they don't have to haul it back to the farm and wouldn't have anywhere to store it if they did.

[phathui5]

I would go for the food stamps and not feel bad about it at all. When we've needed them, food stamps have provided such a huge relief. Not having to decide between paying for food or rent/water/electricity nice.