If you've ever been a business owner who's business failed...

[Julie in CA]

How did you know when it was time to get out, and did you do it in time to salvage anything?

 

Did you have any personal assets left after all was said & done?

 

If the business was long-term for you, did you have trouble transitioning to working for someone else, and did you have trouble finding a job?

 

My dh's family has been in dairy farming for as many generations back as anyone can trace. Amongst dh and his 6 brothers, there are four farms. The others have had trouble and are deeply in the red. I can see us going down too, and I don't think we can ride it out any more, hoping & praying that things get better. If we wait any longer, I think we will probably lose our home, our vehicles, and we have virtually no savings left. If we sell everything right now, we may have a little left at the end to find somewhere to live, and we will probably be able to save our cars. My dh knows no other way of life, and I don't think he wants to live if he loses this. I think he's dying a slow death, day-by-day. :crying:

 

Anyone have any happy stories about things coming out okay in the end?

 

And if you've been watching my life crumble around me, I guess I'm living proof that when it rains, it pours. :sad:

Edited June 14, 2012 by Julie in CA

[ChristyB in TN]

I've never had a business fail but I have lost almost everything due to bad investments early on, I guess it was 12 years ago or so. I can say now that I have a doctorate in surviving it intact. Yes, you can get through it. Yes, it is awful and you will have some horrible days. When we went through it, my mom told me that great, successful people have a tendency to lose everything once and then they have a tendency to come back and become more successful next time. You learn from it, avoid the mistakes of the past, realize how little material things actually matter, and have a tendency to understand the pain of others. We actually decided (after we went through it and could see the light at the end) that we would never be afraid of losing it all again and would be MORE entrepreneurial, more open to great ideas, and would follow our dreams more. We paid all of our debts, left no one or nothing hanging, survived with a lot of respect for each other and a stronger marriage, and we are having a blast with every new venture. Guess who is not afraid of losing? Me. Guess who doesn't have to do it often? Me. :D My advice is to praise everyone involved as often as possible. Self esteem suffers and your husband's family needs a lot of building up. Love, love, love each other. Learn from everything and see it as a learning experience. You will be fine and will be better and stronger. :001_smile:

[justamouse]

I've never had a business fail but I have lost almost everything due to bad investments early on, I guess it was 12 years ago or so. I can say now that I have a doctorate in surviving it intact. Yes, you can get through it. Yes, it is awful and you will have some horrible days. When we went through it, my mom told me that great, successful people have a tendency to lose everything once and then they have a tendency to come back and become more successful next time. You learn from it, avoid the mistakes of the past, realize how little material things actually matter, and have a tendency to understand the pain of others. We actually decided (after we went through it and could see the light at the end) that we would never be afraid of losing it all again and would be MORE entrepreneurial, more open to great ideas, and would follow our dreams more. We paid all of our debts, left no one or nothing hanging, survived with a lot of respect for each other and a stronger marriage, and we are having a blast with every new venture. Guess who is not afraid of losing? Me. Guess who doesn't have to do it often? Me. :D My advice is to praise everyone involved as often as possible. Self esteem suffers and your husband's family needs a lot of building up. Love, love, love each other. Learn from everything and see it as a learning experience. You will be fine and will be better and stronger. :001_smile:

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I can't tell you how many times we failed and what we dug ourselves out of before we made it or the amounts of $ we lost (which to some would be peanuts, and to others a life savings). There are lessons that can only be learned by attempting and failing a few times.

 

It's strange, but after you've dug out of a failed business a few times and decide to keep plugging, you realize it's just money. It's just a tool. And when it's in that perspective, it has no hold over how you live your life or if you wake up happy or sad that day.

 

I know this is a family legacy and that adds a whole new dimension to the loss, and I hate what's happened to the farmers in our country-I really do. But it can only take from you what you give it. :group hug: It's just land, and it's just stuff. Don't get so scared you get out too late. Get out while you can still salvage something if you can. Then, don't be Lot's wife. Just learn and move on.

 

Mad Charity is right, you WILL be better and stronger.

Edited June 14, 2012 by justamouse

[kalanamak]

 

My dh's family has been in dairy farming for as many generations back as anyone can trace. Amongst dh and his 6 brothers, there are four farms. The others have had trouble and are deeply in the red. I can see us going down too, and I don't think we can ride it out any more, hoping & praying that things get better. If we wait any longer, I think we will probably lose our home, our vehicles, and we have virtually no savings left.

 

It is a tough time for farmer families. Surely he knows this, but perhaps he needs reminding.

 

Involuntary changes are painful, but most farmers are men of sense and used to just doing what they have to do. I'd encourage his kids to be emotionally involved, esp the ones who don't live at home any more, in making sure he's keep moored in the important role he has on earth.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Caroline]

Julie, I don't have the advice you are looking for, but I was there when my dad had to sell my grandpa's cattle when my grandpa died. I know a little bit of my dad died that day, too. :grouphug:

[Julie in CA]

I've never had a business fail but I have lost almost everything due to bad investments early on, I guess it was 12 years ago or so. I can say now that I have a doctorate in surviving it intact. Yes, you can get through it. Yes, it is awful and you will have some horrible days. When we went through it, my mom told me that great, successful people have a tendency to lose everything once and then they have a tendency to come back and become more successful next time. You learn from it, avoid the mistakes of the past, realize how little material things actually matter, and have a tendency to understand the pain of others. We actually decided (after we went through it and could see the light at the end) that we would never be afraid of losing it all again and would be MORE entrepreneurial, more open to great ideas, and would follow our dreams more. We paid all of our debts, left no one or nothing hanging, survived with a lot of respect for each other and a stronger marriage, and we are having a blast with every new venture. Guess who is not afraid of losing? Me. Guess who doesn't have to do it often? Me. :D My advice is to praise everyone involved as often as possible. Self esteem suffers and your husband's family needs a lot of building up. Love, love, love each other. Learn from everything and see it as a learning experience. You will be fine and will be better and stronger. :001_smile:

Thanks for the encouragement. I know that we could be ok in a different life than what we have now, because I've lived differently in the past. Dh was born breathing dairy air, and doesn't know how to survive anywhere else, or doing anything else.

 

If we don't get out *right now*, we will probably end up a million or more in the hole. Dh can't see how to get out, and although disconsolate, is holding tight and praying for things to turn around. He just can't take the plunge to get out. So, the choice is A.) Get out now and try to salvage what we can, or B.) Continue to hold out as long as possible, with the hope that things turn around just enough that we can squeak by this time.

 

Dh may be right, and I may be wrong. I just know that we've been through hard times before, but never had it look quite this bad. Around 60% of what we bring in is going directly to feed costs. Mortgage payments & property taxes take another huge chunk. After that, insurance for the coming year is over $100,000. Gas here is still over $4 per gallon. The cost of compliance with EPA requirements and other regulations is rising all the time.

 

My dh works 7 days per week, starting at about 5 a.m. and finishing at about 6 in the evening every day. Working for someone else sounds like a relief to me, but sounds like death to dh.

[justamouse]

My dh works 7 days per week, starting at about 5 a.m. and finishing at about 6 in the evening every day. Working for someone else sounds like a relief to me, but sounds like death to dh.

 

That poor guy. That itself would break a weaker man.

 

It's not death, it's living to see another day and the ability to start over. Every day we wake up, we're born again, with the ability to change our world.

 

I can totally see how working for someone else seems like death...I think my Dh and I would feel the same. We're too independent to work for anyone else but ourselves. But he could still work for himself--just not farming?

 

Reinventing yourself is hard. The older you get--unless you're used to it, is even harder. Having never done it before? If he makes this shift it will be a monumental thing.

[cjzimmer1]

I don't know what things are like in your area but is it possible for him to remain in agriculture but shift his business. For instance I'm in WI (the great dairy state :001_smile:) and many of the small farmers have invested in artisan cheese - either making it themselves or contracting with a small cheese maker for their milk. The farmers are doing much $ wise because they are able to get more for their final product than when they simply sold their milk to the bulk processors. Or how about organic milk, fresh bottled milk, raw milk? Could he switch to raising beef cattle and raise grassfed beef, or get into produce and be involved in CSA's? I have no idea what your customer base is like out there and market demands might be but maybe there is a way for him to stay in farming but find a more profitable product to work with.

 

My parents were involved in agriculture when I was younger and it is a unpredictable income source. Hope you find a way to survive economically but still allow your husband to thrive.

[saraha]

Julie,

 

I married into a generational farming family too. I know YOU know that you can make it outside of that, but you are right, there is something in your husband that might need to see it through. I really hope you don't read this post the wrong way, intent is so hard to express this way, but please tread gently with your husband. Families have broken up over bitterness between spouses over hard decisions (especially in farming). If you can let him decide at all, I mean if you can let go and let him be the one to come to a decision, I would do it. If you can't, and are afraid that you will never be able to forgive him if he waits and ends up losing everything, then you need to try to tell him that. He may not hear you, or you may need to calmly discuss it with him more than once (not in a heated moment obviously). I am so sorry for you all. What you are going through is heartbreaking. So much of your husband is tied up in that farm, including ego and his contribution to legacy.

Knowing my husband, If we were on the edge of losing ours, I think I would let him try to the end. "Quitting" would be harder on him than "losing" if you know what I mean. Is there anyway you can move some savings or assests into someone elses name? Just in case?

 

Hugs to you, I am so sorry you are facing this.

[ChristyB in TN]

Thanks for the encouragement. I know that we could be ok in a different life than what we have now, because I've lived differently in the past. Dh was born breathing dairy air, and doesn't know how to survive anywhere else, or doing anything else.

 

If we don't get out *right now*, we will probably end up a million or more in the hole. Dh can't see how to get out, and although disconsolate, is holding tight and praying for things to turn around. He just can't take the plunge to get out. So, the choice is A.) Get out now and try to salvage what we can, or B.) Continue to hold out as long as possible, with the hope that things turn around just enough that we can squeak by this time.

 

Dh may be right, and I may be wrong. I just know that we've been through hard times before, but never had it look quite this bad. Around 60% of what we bring in is going directly to feed costs. Mortgage payments & property taxes take another huge chunk. After that, insurance for the coming year is over $100,000. Gas here is still over $4 per gallon. The cost of compliance with EPA requirements and other regulations is rising all the time.

 

My dh works 7 days per week, starting at about 5 a.m. and finishing at about 6 in the evening every day. Working for someone else sounds like a relief to me, but sounds like death to dh.

It has to be just awful for both of you, the emotions felt are unimaginable. He will make a lot of decisions you are going to question, it will go both ways. Please understand that after all of this is over, that won't matter one whit. All the times you laugh anyway and give each other an unexpected massage, shrug your shoulders when the news comes that the last decision was a costly one, tell your husband and his family that they are freaking awesome... all of that WILL matter. It is awful. I know. You are awesome.

[FunnyFarmMom]

I don't have any advice but I just wanted to express my sympathy. We're dairy farmers too and the last few years have just been so, so hard. So many nights we've sat in the office, literally in tears, trying to figure out how to pay the bills and keep going for another month. It's just exhausting. Add to that the fact that dairy farming isn't just what we DO, it's what we ARE. Growing up on a dairy farm - dairy farmer is your identity from day one. And if you can't make it work, what are you? Then there are the family issues, feeling like you let down your family. Please know that I will add you to my list of farm family and friends that I pray for! :grouphug:

[JumpyTheFrog]

I also wanted to ask about having a small herd for raw milk. Grass fed beef is also another good idea.

[sassenach]

Thanks for the encouragement. I know that we could be ok in a different life than what we have now, because I've lived differently in the past. Dh was born breathing dairy air, and doesn't know how to survive anywhere else, or doing anything else.

 

If we don't get out *right now*, we will probably end up a million or more in the hole. Dh can't see how to get out, and although disconsolate, is holding tight and praying for things to turn around. He just can't take the plunge to get out. So, the choice is A.) Get out now and try to salvage what we can, or B.) Continue to hold out as long as possible, with the hope that things turn around just enough that we can squeak by this time.

 

Dh may be right, and I may be wrong. I just know that we've been through hard times before, but never had it look quite this bad. Around 60% of what we bring in is going directly to feed costs. Mortgage payments & property taxes take another huge chunk. After that, insurance for the coming year is over $100,000. Gas here is still over $4 per gallon. The cost of compliance with EPA requirements and other regulations is rising all the time.

 

My dh works 7 days per week, starting at about 5 a.m. and finishing at about 6 in the evening every day. Working for someone else sounds like a relief to me, but sounds like death to dh.

 

Wow, farming sure isn't what it used to be. My dad owned several businesses that ran into the ground one by one. The biggie was a video game business. As nintendo and other at home games came onto the market, it killed his business. Rather than getting out, he ran our entire family into the ground. The house foreclosed and he and my mom divorced before it was all said and done with. I will say that their divorce had a lot more factors than just the business, but the pattern of lying and hiding things that developed over years of trying to keep the business afloat were definite contributors.

 

My dad eventually started working in banking, which he was good at but hated. He now coaches high school track and refs high school wrestling and football. It's a great fit for him.

[AuntieM]

:grouphug:

 

I don't know anything about dairy farming, or the current size of your farm. I wonder if there's any way to sort of reorganize, maybe sell off some assets and create a smaller, more focused specialty farm?

 

Does your location lend itself to adding a bakery/coffee shop/artisan cheese shop? Student field trip programs for a small admissions fee?

 

We have a couple of local dairy farms and other farms that have found their niches in specialty markets. Is it possible to pursue such a thing?

 

You two have probably considered everything - just trying to think hopefully for you.

[ChristyB in TN]

:grouphug:

 

I don't know anything about dairy farming, or the current size of your farm. I wonder if there's any way to sort of reorganize, maybe sell off some assets and create a smaller, more focused specialty farm?

 

Does your location lend itself to adding a bakery/coffee shop/artisan cheese shop? Student field trip programs for a small admissions fee?

 

We have a couple of local dairy farms and other farms that have found their niches in specialty markets. Is it possible to pursue such a thing?

 

You two have probably considered everything - just trying to think hopefully for you.

 

That would be so cool. I know it is a great answer for a lot of farmers. I recently drove an hour to meet some friends for pancakes at a farm/mill that now serves breakfast on Saturday mornings only. We had to have a reservation. They had some old people playing bluegrass while sitting in a circle in the corner, it was freaking awesome. As we left, we were invited to buy lots of different bags of flours and milled grains, all organic and served there. It was fantastic. They also let people come out and have their weddings there. They seem to be finally scraping by.

[i.love.lucy]

:grouphug: Julie, I am so sorry. Things are so tough for a lot of us. It breaks my heart. I don't have words of wisdom other than to say I will be praying for you. :grouphug:

[*Inna*]

Julie, :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:.

 

I don't know anything about farming, but I know someone very close to us who had his own, very successful construction business. I remember him saying that working for somebody else would be like a death for him.

 

A few years later they lost everything. He took a job in a different field, works for a big company and he is happy. He said that it's a tremendous relief to not to worry where the next job will come from, not to deal with his workers etc.

 

It was a very hard process for their family, but they learned to trust the Lord in everything and He has provided in abundance.

[Liz CA]

Ack, this is sooo hard. I hurt for you. Would it be possible that a man like your dh could be a farm advisor, work for the Agricultural Department, something like that? Years of experience must be worth something! And many of us are still using milk, cream and yogurt...Can you consider converting to an organic operation? Seems to me that organic products are in demand.

 

Back in 2007, the business my dh was working for died a slow death because of the failing economy. My dh got out before the owner closed the doors but it was hard on both of them. There were only three people there - the owner, dh and a receptionist.

The receptionist (who did payroll) left earlier. I suppose she saw the writing on the wall. Dh and owner, who was also like a friend, hung in there a little longer until it was unavoidable.

 

Dh feels the owner should have shut down sooner. In hanging on, he occurred back office rent in the thousands and had other numerous vendors he could not pay.

For a farm the details may be slightly different but the sagging bottom line can probably have the same results.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Liz CA

[kewb]

My dh helld onto his business much longer then he should have. He ran us into the ground. We used up everything just to hang onto the house. I try not to bitter about it. I saw the writing in the wall 2 years before he was willing. He was not in the place yet to give up his dream and autonomy.

 

I can't say he loves working for someone else but he does not miss the stress we had worrying how to pay the mortgage each month and the health benefits are a definite plus.

 

Whatever your family decision it will be a difficult time for your dh due to the feelings involved.

[Susan C.]

Can you consult with a tax attorney and/or accountant? Maybe you can separate your family finances from the farm's and make the farm a LLC, S corporation, or the like. In other words, see if there is any way to protect your family's assets if things get worse.

 

Any way you can go organic? http://www.organicvalley.coop/about-us/grow-with-our-co-op/

[Mimm]

:grouphug: That sounds terrifying. My husband would like us to be more entrepreneurial but I'm too afraid. I watched my father leave his stable job and try to start his own company only to see my parents' financial situation spiral out of control. Of course, a lot of other factors contributed to this (not the least of which was my father's serious drinking problems). But I always see people who own their own companies saying that they are working 80 hour weeks and barely getting by and it just doesn't sound like a ton of fun to me. I'm afraid of the risk. :(

 

It's interesting seeing a previous poster say that they survived losing it all and went on to take even bigger risks. :) That's actually encouraging.

[Julie in CA]

Can you consult with a tax attorney and/or accountant? Maybe you can separate your family finances from the farm's and make the farm a LLC, S corporation, or the like. In other words, see if there is any way to protect your family's assets if things get worse.

 

Any way you can go organic? http://www.organicvalley.coop/about-us/grow-with-our-co-op/

Honestly, our assets are so tied to the farm that I'm not sure there's any way to shield any of it. Our house is on the farm, and even our vehicles are technically owned by the business. Because we've continued reinvesting in the farm for all of these years (nearly 25), we have nearly no personal savings. That was ok when the idea was that the healthy business was a good investment, which it no longer is.

 

To make matters worse, dh is a partner with one of his brothers, and the brother & his wife are not on board with selling, and are also not really focused on cutting back financially. There is, at this point, no possibility of them buying our half of what's left of the business because of the unstable banking situation. Agricultural loans have really taken a hit. That used to be the way for farmers to get through: Pay debt & make infrastructure investments in good years, and borrow from the bank to get by in lean years. All there is now is lean years, and the banks no longer view small farms as a good risk, obviously with good reason.

 

ETA: By "small" I mean that we milk around 1200 holstein cows, along with raising all of our heifer calves as replacements when they're older. We also farm somewhere around 600 acres of land. That's "small" these days. :001_huh:

Edited June 14, 2012 by Julie in CA

[justamouse]

That would be so cool. I know it is a great answer for a lot of farmers. I recently drove an hour to meet some friends for pancakes at a farm/mill that now serves breakfast on Saturday mornings only. We had to have a reservation. They had some old people playing bluegrass while sitting in a circle in the corner, it was freaking awesome. As we left, we were invited to buy lots of different bags of flours and milled grains, all organic and served there. It was fantastic. They also let people come out and have their weddings there. They seem to be finally scraping by.

 

I just got back from my local farm that now sells meats (Beef, lamb, chicken), mills their own grains and feeds, and also sells their own sunflower birdseed.

 

They are such a part of the community.

 

Some of the other dairy farms make cheeses and sell them at the farmer's market.

 

re:organic--our grocery store often posts flyers that they are in a shortage of organic milk and won't get it in for a few weeks because of the skyrocketing demands--if that's an option for you...

 

But I agree, the one's I've seen making it are because they've developed a niche and are supplying something unique to the community.

Edited June 14, 2012 by justamouse

[Renee in NC]

We did. We lost everything except our cars. Dh even sold his truck and started driving an old minivan that his Dad gave him. (He did later get the truck back - long story.)

 

We couldn't have gotten out sooner - everything was fine until July 2008 (it slowed some due to gas prices) and then TANKED in October 2008. I remember sitting there watching the stock market lose almost half its value in a couple of weeks. The phones stopped ringing; business dried up. Many of our customers went out of business, too.

 

We're still facing repercussions from that business, but we are slowly climbing out.

 

It is very, very hard, and we didn't have the "family farm" issues either.

 

:grouphug:

 

As far as separating assets, we were an LLC, and then an S-corp. However, with a small business the owners are often required to personally guarantee debt.

[Julie in CA]

Julie,

 

I married into a generational farming family too. I know YOU know that you can make it outside of that, but you are right, there is something in your husband that might need to see it through. I really hope you don't read this post the wrong way, intent is so hard to express this way, but please tread gently with your husband. Families have broken up over bitterness between spouses over hard decisions (especially in farming). If you can let him decide at all, I mean if you can let go and let him be the one to come to a decision, I would do it. If you can't, and are afraid that you will never be able to forgive him if he waits and ends up losing everything, then you need to try to tell him that. He may not hear you, or you may need to calmly discuss it with him more than once (not in a heated moment obviously). I am so sorry for you all. What you are going through is heartbreaking. So much of your husband is tied up in that farm, including ego and his contribution to legacy.

Knowing my husband, If we were on the edge of losing ours, I think I would let him try to the end. "Quitting" would be harder on him than "losing" if you know what I mean. Is there anyway you can move some savings or assests into someone elses name? Just in case?

 

Hugs to you, I am so sorry you are facing this.

Thank you. I can tell that you really understand, and that helps.

I am absolutely with my dh in this until the very end. If we lose everything, we lose everything. I know we'd get by, but dh would come away a completely broken man. Honestly though, he's broken already. The legacy aspect is painful beyond words for him. None of our sons will be dairy farmers, and that's such a loss on it's own.

 

I think you are right. I don't think he *can* quit, and I shouldn't expect him to. I will work on setting aside enough cash to pay first & last rent/deposit on somewhere to live (just in case it comes to that), and maybe a bit more if I can. I know I can cut my household budget alone enough to do that over the next 6 months, which is about how long we can last without a fairly dramatic upturn. While I'm doing that, I'll pray to be completely wrong about where this is headed. That could totally happen. Maybe we will be able to get over this hump. Stranger things have certainly happened, and God provides in ways we don't anticipate *all the time*. I'll be hoping/dreaming/praying for the best. Sometimes that's enough.

 

Thanks.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Julie in CA

[Home'scool]

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Susan in TN]

:grouphug:

[saraha]

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Let me know if I can be an ear/sounding board.

[Kissy]

My dh's family lost their farm not the land yet but they will sell as soon as their step grandma passes. We didn't lose it but his grandfather did and he watched them sell off all their cattle and some of the land to keep what they could. Now no one wants to take the risk so when the last grandma goes his aunt and uncle are selling. My dh still hurts about it. He had dreams of bringing back the family legacy of farming but is having to realize that we will never be able to do it. When the family farm issue is there it is heartbreaking. I am so sorry you guys are going through this. :grouphug:

[Anne in CA]

Honestly, our assets are so tied to the farm that I'm not sure there's any way to shield any of it. Our house is on the farm, and even our vehicles are technically owned by the business. Because we've continued reinvesting in the farm for all of these years (nearly 25), we have nearly no personal savings. That was ok when the idea was that the healthy business was a good investment, which it no longer is.

 

To make matters worse, dh is a partner with one of his brothers, and the brother & his wife are not on board with selling, and are also not really focused on cutting back financially. There is, at this point, no possibility of them buying our half of what's left of the business because of the unstable banking situation. Agricultural loans have really taken a hit. That used to be the way for farmers to get through: Pay debt & make infrastructure investments in good years, and borrow from the bank to get by in lean years. All there is now is lean years, and the banks no longer view small farms as a good risk, obviously with good reason.

 

ETA: By "small" I mean that we milk around 1200 holstein cows, along with raising all of our heifer calves as replacements when they're older. We also farm somewhere around 600 acres of land. That's "small" these days. :001_huh:

 

Ohhh, I feel for you. This is how my bff's parents went down. Her father's brother would not cut back and actually had credit cards in the farm's name which he and his wife used to finance rodeo tickets, plane tickets, you see the pattern. They did save their farm by going all organic, but their extended family was destroyed.

 

This is probably what you do not want to hear, but as someone whose family farm is gone and who had BTDT with lots of friends and relatives, I think you need to get a job. I think you need to cash every paycheck you get, hide the money good, maybe in a safety deposit box. Men do not let go of their farms. My father didn't, and he lives on a small scrap of land that he did not lose in a manner no one would like. I need to pay his power bill and my brother buys his groceries, my sister deals with the rest. He is a burden to all of us, and it was completely avoidable.

 

My mom got a job, got a house in town and made a new life. She is not well off but she invested the money she inherited from her mother well and makes it. She even travels a little. If she had stayed with my dad he would have dumped her inheritance into the farm and she would live like him today. You will need a safety net that he can not dump into the farm. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

My bff's parents were only able to make the leap to organic because her mother got a job and they lived off that money while they had no income for several years.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Anne in Ore
content addition

[Julie in CA]

This is probably what you do not want to hear, but as someone whose family farm is gone and who had BTDT with lots of friends and relatives, I think you need to get a job.

I have a job. It's not enough to help with business losses, but it is enough to put some money away if I focus on that. I will probably pick up some more work as time goes by.

[Anne in CA]

I'm glad you have a job, I hope you can put money away. This whole situation is just hard. Sometimes I think there are people somewhere who won't sleep until every family farm is in the hands of a corporation.

[Trilliums]

Is there any possibility of getting a small business grant to expand into value added products? This seems to be the buzzword around here. Artisan cheeses as someone mentioned or even ice cream. Where we used to live the local dairy added in ice cream shop and it became quite tthe thing to do for school groups and families.

[countrygal]

From one dairy farm wife to another: I feel your pain :( I could write a book on all our ups and downs, financially and personally but I'll just go straight to the advice that's worked for me:

 

1. PRAY: God will open a window when all the doors are locked.

2. Stand by your man: Make sure he knows he's your hero no matter what happens. A wife's support means more than he probably lets you know. You're the thread that keeps him hanging on when his world is falling apart.

3. Help him figure out what he would like to do. Herdsman? Work for a custom guy (drive equipment, etc...) If you can sell out of the farm, he could continue something agricultural for a while until maybe he could start up again by himself on a smaller scale. My dh wouldn't like anything but working for himself either but maybe just as something temporarily. Stress the temporary. If there seems like there is no way out because you have tried everything (cutting expenses by growing feed instead of buying, etc... ) Then selling out sooner than later is best. Nothing is a bigger punch than going broke and losing everything.

4. Look into stray voltage if your cow health seems poor despite good management and you think it's the cause of your financial losses. Some electrical companies are good, some are evil to work with, as are private consultants. They can suck you dry of money awfully fast. However, if you are from California like your name suggests, you probably don't have a problem since the wiring is better.

 

Things I think you shouldn't do:

 

1. Go organic: To big of a jump and probably a faster fall than continuing what you are doing. All you need is a bad crop year and you can't spray your corn or have bugs eat your hay or you can't find affordable feed... or feed with any nutritional value! Or your calves die from scours and if you treat them you have to sell them (I think the no antibiotic thing is ridiculous about organic.)

 

2. Try to invest in growing another business such a cheese making. It takes money and time to learn to do yet another thing (farmers don't have much of time or money!)

 

Sorry if I'm miss negative on those, but those endeavors are usually only successful if the first business is well established.

 

We don't farm with anybody else so I can't say how to fix that problem without a family feud (can you business-divorce the other half against their will? Then purchase the house from him? Attorney's are expensive...) This may be your biggest obstacle.

 

Take a deep breath! Atleast you have each other :) Hopefully he can see it that way too. I know it's impossible to get the farm out of the farmboy.

[Kathryn]

I have no advice, just sympathy. :grouphug: my grandfather's parents lost the paternal family farm in the Depression. They moved to town and his father became a worker at the big commercial dairy farm. His maternal family lost their dairy farm as well. They moved to California and bought a lemon orchard. I know it was extremely difficult for both families to lose their identities and legacies. I'm so sorry.

[fairfarmhand]

I just saw this thread from a couple weeks back.

 

Have you and your husband considered gradually switching to beef breeds? Perhaps selling feeder cattle?

[Julie in CA]

I just saw this thread from a couple weeks back.

 

Have you and your husband considered gradually switching to beef breeds? Perhaps selling feeder cattle?

I will ask him about this. Right now he's considering selling off the herd and equipment and leasing our land to nut tree farmers. If he (and his brother) decided to do that now, we'd probably be able to keep our house and have a bit of money left over.

 

Dh says that he thinks we will be alright until about October--we have feed to last until then, but in Sept-Oct will need to pay farmers for 2nd and 3rd cutting hay, and will need to pay the chopper guys to get the corn silage off the field (480 acres). If nothing is better by then, then paying those bills will tip us over the edge.

 

I will ask him if he thinks beef would help at this point. Feed costs are killing us though. Grossed over a million dollars last year, but ended up with nothing to show for it after feed, fuel, machinery/maintenance, and then things like insurance (insurance alone ended up well over $100,000 last year).

 

It just seems so hopeless. I am thinking we should consult an attorney in order to clarify if there's any way to keep anything at all if the business fails completely. To be completely truthful, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better for it to just be over. I cannot see that dh can survive much more of this level of stress, and I mean that literally. :(

[maddykate]

I am so sorry for what you are going through. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

My dh's family were dairy farmers; my dh grew up within that wholesome environment. And it was a wonderful, but challenging way of life for them all for over thirty years. However, within the last 6-8 years or so, the small dairy farmers in this area have all been completely forced out. I am not sure how big your farm is, but it seems that the "big business" dairies have made it impossible for the little farms to suceed. The rules and regulations, the high feed prices, the lower milk price per hundred, etc. have all caused the small farmers to give it up. It seems like to me that it is by design, but, I do admit to being a conspiracy theorist.

 

What my inlaws did was to sell off part of their farm to pay off the other half. Then, they used some of that money to buy registered angus beef and sell them once a year for a decent price, which allows them to still live on the farm and make ends meet. They have a part time job in town which gives them their insurance and other benefits.

 

I am so sorry that this is happening to your family. My heart breaks for your situation! I know how painful it is to love the land you have and to have to make a decision to stop doing what you love.

[kalanamak]

To be completely truthful, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better for it to just be over. I cannot see that dh can survive much more of this level of stress, and I mean that literally. :(

 

This is nothing to be sneezed at.

 

:grouphug:

[fairfarmhand]

I will ask him about this. Right now he's considering selling off the herd and equipment and leasing our land to nut tree farmers. If he (and his brother) decided to do that now, we'd probably be able to keep our house and have a bit of money left over.

 

Dh says that he thinks we will be alright until about October--we have feed to last until then, but in Sept-Oct will need to pay farmers for 2nd and 3rd cutting hay, and will need to pay the chopper guys to get the corn silage off the field (480 acres). If nothing is better by then, then paying those bills will tip us over the edge.

 

I will ask him if he thinks beef would help at this point. Feed costs are killing us though. Grossed over a million dollars last year, but ended up with nothing to show for it after feed, fuel, machinery/maintenance, and then things like insurance (insurance alone ended up well over $100,000 last year).

 

It just seems so hopeless. I am thinking we should consult an attorney in order to clarify if there's any way to keep anything at all if the business fails completely. To be completely truthful, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better for it to just be over. I cannot see that dh can survive much more of this level of stress, and I mean that literally. :(

 

 

see the cool thing about selling feeder steers is that you don't really have to feed grains. We just feed enough to keep them tame. They graze in the summer and eat hay in the winter but just enough grain to help them be friendly and learn to follow a bucket. We sell ours at weaning...6 months old. I wonder if you could breed your existing herd to a black bull (black brings more money currently) and sell those calves next spring??? You already have the land and fencing (I am assuming) and the handling facilities for cows. You could sell the dairy equipment over time and gradually transition to beef.

 

You may also be able to currently feed out young cows (beef breeds maybe?) on your dairy milk and sell them at weaning. Perhaps selling beef on the hoof will be more profitable than selling milk?

 

I totally understand your hurt though. With corn skyrocketing and diesel so high farmers are really hurting.

[Happy]

I'm short on time, so I'm going to admit I haven't read all the replies.

 

One thing truly stood out to me in your post that I want to address.

 

I was a photographer all. my. life. I first picked up a camera at age 11...worked as a photographer on the school yearbook and newspaper during high school, plus as part time job, too. PUt myself through college working as a photographer. Met my husband in college in the photo lab. We were both photograhers, but he was also a farm boy and pilot. After we married, we started a business with me as a professional photographer. It's ALL I'd ever done.

 

In my early 40s I was burned out by owning my own studio. Made some money, but the money/time working balance was off. So I began contemplating closing my business.

 

Talk about hyperventilating and panic. For a while I worried--deeply--that I might cease to exist if I put my cameras down. It was one of the scariest, hardest things I've done.

 

But, you know what? I did not cease to exist. In fact, after a year or so, I began to thrive in a different kind of life as a homeschool mom. After ten years of homeschooling, I ran out of boys to school, so I've moved on to being a writer and a real estate agent. Believe me the transistion from hs mom to today's work was a snap in comparison to putting that camera down.

 

I feel so for you and your husband. It's hard! Be sure though, that there is still life to be lived and skills to learn. You will survive this!

 

I wish you peace, clarity, and wisdom.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

So terrible for you.

I have had my little home businesses and all have been great in the beginning and then downhill. Fortunately, my dh has a steady job.

He did have a carpet cleaning business years ago and after quitting, he sold his equipment for a good price so that was a real blessing.

 

If this is all your dh has ever known, it will be much more difficult.

I hope he has someone to talk to even if he talks to you.

I find that my dh does clam up at some critical times in his work

and there are so many times, even now that it is just on the border of

the entire plant shutting down. My dh is the Director of a non profit, so he feels alot of pressure and has to constantly strive to make things work.

 

The economy was booming 7 years ago, and they got a Million dollar grant. It was federal and used to update the building totally. The stipulation was that he had to create more jobs. He thought that would be easy. Now they have lost jobs, got extensions, and keep hitting below the number. If they don't hit the number for just 1 day, they will suffer major consequences and have to shut down.

 

I see my dh crumbling too, at a slower rate, but he has also had to have 2 heart stents put in.

 

My prayers are with you, and I hope you can make it in the business, or do well through whatever you end up having to do.

Don't lose HOPE.

[Mom0012]

I haven't read all the posts, but my FIL was a dairy farmer and it had been the family business for years. When my husband was in high school or college, they realized they could no longer make a living that way and switched to beef cattle and, more recently, he makes a lot of hay and sells it to locals. I think he actually does very well with the hay.

 

He has other income (my MIL always worked) and they invested heavily in real estate, but I think he was able to get out of the red with the farm by making the changes I mentioned above.

 

On the other hand, they strongly discouraged and actually refused to let my husband even consider going into the farming business because they didn't think it would continue to be successful. FIL is still running it, though, almost 30 years later, maybe because of the changes he made.

 

Lisa