I will pay you

[justLisa]

Dear son, if you just. sleep. one. night. Turning 8 on June 1st, this will mark almost three thousand days of crappy sleep. I really, really hope that some day he will sleep all night without me needing to sleep with him half the night. Seriously I don't even think money would work, though I thought about it for a split second at 4 am. And no, I'm not joking. He has not slept by himself one night of his life. He is JUST the sweetest, most loving boy in the world, but I think I may need to medicate very, very soon. (myself:lol:)

 

Thank you for listening.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I feel your pain! Dd had to sleep with me for about 8 years.

 

Extended release melatonin? Sleep study to rule out medical reason for waking?

[Annie Laurie]

I get a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when I read a thread like this, because my ds is 17 months and I have been operating on very little sleep since he was born. Sleep deprivation is horrible and I've been hanging on to the hope that he will improve a lot when he turns two.

 

You're a better woman than I, there is no way I can continue with interrupted sleep for that many years!

[Shellydon]

What would happen if you just said no. "Go back to bed." Repeat times 30

[MindyD]

What would happen if you just said no. "Go back to bed." Repeat times 30

:iagree: Is there a real reason or is it just a well established habit?

[justLisa]

:iagree: Is there a real reason or is it just a well established habit?

 

Habit, not a fan of being alone in the dark. Tried it. He will keep coming back or eventually feel bad and sit up in bed whimpering.

[melissamomof5]

This thread doesn't encourage me! :tongue_smilie: My son (will be 2 Sunday) still doesn't really sleep through the night. My girls were all so easy and he has been very different! Like you said, he's the sweetest thing, but ornery at night! He is up about 9 nights out of 10 at least once if not more than three times still. We don't get him up unless he has a real need. We just lay him back down.

 

Hope you get a good night's rest soon!

[MegP]

I would get him a night light and transition him to staying in his own bed all night.

[Mommyfaithe]

What I did:

 

Put sleeping bag on floor next to my bed.

 

Told dd she was welcome to come in and sleep in sleeping bag as long as she didn't wake me up.

 

Rule: you are 8 years old....if you wake me up, I put you back to bed. If you are quiet and don't wake me up you can stay.

 

She did this until she was 10.....but at least she didn't wake me up anymore.

If you she woke me...out she went!!

 

Faithe

[raceNzanesmom]

My 8 y/o takes melatonin before bed. Helps a ton!

 

He wasn't whiny, it just took a LONG time for him to go to sleep. Getting out of bed, however, isn't allowed, I don't care how much you whine. I have a 2, 3.5 and 4.5 y/o here at bedtime too. I tell them quick, I can't make you sleep, but you will stay in bed.

 

ETA: We do keep a very low night light and soft music in our ds's room. That helps a bunch!

Edited April 20, 2012 by raceNzanesmom

[melissamomof5]

What I did:

 

Put sleeping bag on floor next to my bed.

 

Told dd she was welcome to come in and sleep in sleeping bag as long as she didn't wake me up.

 

Rule: you are 8 years old....if you wake me up, I put you back to bed. If you are quiet and don't wake me up you can stay.

 

She did this until she was 10.....but at least she didn't wake me up anymore.

If you she woke me...out she went!!

 

Faithe

 

We do this with our girls too. If they have a bad dream or something they can quietly come and lay on the floor beside our bed for the night.

[DianeW88]

Uh...you need to get a little more serious about this or it will never end. Sleep deprivation is not just inconvenient, studies have shown it actually takes years off your life and increases the risk of certain diseases dramatically.

 

He's 8...not 2. He can cry it out for a week, and then it's over. Be firm. Say no as often as necessary. Escort him back to his room and shut the door. Rinse and repeat. Seriously, he's manipulating you at this point.

[nova147]

Can he sleep on the floor in your room? My 4 year old still likes to come in our room in the middle of the night. But we've convinced her to lay on the floor, rather than wake us.

[MegP]

Uh...you need to get a little more serious about this or it will never end. Sleep deprivation is not just inconvenient, studies have shown it actually takes years off your life and increases the risk of certain diseases dramatically.

 

He's 8...not 2. He can cry it out for a week, and then it's over. Be firm. Say no as often as necessary. Escort him back to his room and shut the door. Rinse and repeat. Seriously, he's manipulating you at this point.

 

 

I agree. Sounds like you are both sleep deprived..not good!

[justLisa]

Uh...you need to get a little more serious about this or it will never end. Sleep deprivation is not just inconvenient, studies have shown it actually takes years off your life and increases the risk of certain diseases dramatically.

 

He's 8...not 2. He can cry it out for a week, and then it's over. Be firm. Say no as often as necessary. Escort him back to his room and shut the door. Rinse and repeat. Seriously, he's manipulating you at this point.

 

Meh, not really sleep deprived. I just wanna wake up in my own bed. Crying it out isn't in my capability as a mother so no, we have not used that. If I did it at 2 or an infant, it would be crying it out, and maybe would have quick fixed it so as not to ever be an issue, but again, not something I am interested in. Ya, I'm a softy, but I don't always think kids with a problem are manipulating.

 

Thanks for the melatonin suggestions. I may try that. He's never been a great sleeper and gave up naps very early. I think his mind is always going a mile a minute like his dad.

 

And I can't have them sleep on the floor. He has slept in a sleeping bag elsewhere and wakes up uncomfortable. Both my kids have bigger rooms with full size beds, so I can sleep with them comfortably, I just hope it happens soon.

[ktgrok]

When I transitioned my son out of this (3.5 years old) I made sure to start on a weekend when I could get a good nap. Then, if he woke up, I would sit by his bed, but not IN his bed, until he fell asleep. I had a book with a book light, and got comfy. If he complained I sympathized, but explained that just like he likes to be in his bed, I like to be in mine. He cried once, the first night, but it wasn't "cry it out." I was right next to him, literally touching his bed. He wasn't afraid, he wasn't alone, he just didn't like it. And that was kind of tough.

[Mrs Mungo]

Once mine were over 3, I made them sleep on the floor when they came in my room. I didn't even give them a sleeping bag (although, we've always had a rug/carpet in the bedroom), just a pillow and a light blanket. They would usually stay there a little while and then say, "I'm going back to my bed" because it wasn't very comfortable.

 

My personal recipe for easing bedtime: get up them up early, make sure they eat right throughout the day, give them a bedtime snack like oatmeal, give them a bath with Epson salts, read and relax with them for a bit, lights out. If they get up? Say, "go to bed and stay." After the first time? Direct them back to bed without speaking to them or tucking them in or anything.

 

Make a "go to bed and stay" sticker/reward chart, if you think it might help.

[Mrs Mungo]

And I can't have them sleep on the floor. He has slept in a sleeping bag elsewhere and wakes up uncomfortable.

 

Uncomfortable is the point!

 

And I never did crying it out with my kids. We co-slept until they weaned between 2 and 3. I had no trouble getting them out of my bed by being firm, not mean. I like my husband, I like sleeping with him, I like having time alone with him. Once the kids are 8, they are old enough to understand that. If he's sitting on the bed "whimpering," then *I* think that is manipulative. I don't think every kid with a problem is manipulative, but this sounds like he is taking advantage of you. You asked for help or we wouldn't be discussing it.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[CarrieF]

Habit, not a fan of being alone in the dark. Tried it. He will keep coming back or eventually feel bad and sit up in bed whimpering.

What about letting him sleep with a flashlight? My parents did that for me and it was great: I felt "empowered" that if anything looked "funny or suspicious" I could just turn on my light and prove to myself it was nothing. I think I was a little younger (maybe 6?), but it worked. Not that I hadn't been sleeping by myself before that, but it DID help me get over my fear of the dark. :001_smile:

[Farrar]

Well you are a saint because by this point I would have resorted to drugs or something. :lol:

 

 

For him or for her? :D

 

This thread doesn't encourage me! :tongue_smilie: My son (will be 2 Sunday) still doesn't really sleep through the night.

 

Don't freak out too much. Mine didn't until they turned 3 yo (or just before). I think every kid is just different.

 

OP, I quit trying around age 3. That's when I put it on them. It's my job to make you comfortable, keep things calm at the end of the day, investigate the causes of the lack of sleep, give lots of bedtime cuddles, etc. But I can't make my kids sleep. I can, however, forbid them from leaving their rooms and give them a stack of books to keep them company. But just because it worked for us, doesn't mean it would for you. Good luck finding some rest!

[justLisa]

Uncomfortable is the point!

 

And I never did crying it out with my kids. We co-slept until they weaned between 2 and 3. I had no trouble getting them out of my bed by being firm, not mean. I like my husband, I like sleeping with him, I like having time alone with him. Once the kids are 8, they are old enough to understand that. If he's sitting on the bed "whimpering," then *I* think that is manipulative. I don't think every kid with a problem is manipulative, but this sounds like he is taking advantage of you. You asked for help or we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

crying isn't always manipulative. He stays in HIS bed whimpering/crying. He doesn't do it loud on purpose. He will close his door and I can go walk by and faintly hear him. Actually I didn't ask for help, more like complaining about something annoying that I'm trying to manage with until it passes. I'll just let this thread drop off. I totally forgot this is a really non attached parenting place LOL! I know you don't know MY kid and I really have no issue with some people thinking something is manipulative when we all have our own opinions. I always end up falling asleep instead of just laying down with him for a few minutes. Maybe I should just start dragging myself back up after a few minutes tired or not.

[justLisa]

For him or for her? :D

 

 

 

Don't freak out too much. Mine didn't until they turned 3 yo (or just before). I think every kid is just different.

 

OP, I quit trying around age 3. That's when I put it on them. It's my job to make you comfortable, keep things calm at the end of the day, investigate the causes of the lack of sleep, give lots of bedtime cuddles, etc. But I can't make my kids sleep. I can, however, forbid them from leaving their rooms and give them a stack of books to keep them company. But just because it worked for us, doesn't mean it would for you. Good luck finding some rest!

 

OH :lol:

 

One time a couple summers ago I gave him a benadryl because he had some sort of weird reaction to something outside. He slept like a baby and all kinds of evilness was going around in my head!

[DianeW88]

crying isn't always manipulative. He stays in HIS bed whimpering/crying. He doesn't do it loud on purpose. He will close his door and I can go walk by and faintly hear him. Actually I didn't ask for help, more like complaining about something annoying that I'm trying to manage with until it passes. I'll just let this thread drop off. I totally forgot this is a really non attached parenting place LOL! I know you don't know MY kid and I really have no issue with some people thinking something is manipulative when we all have our own opinions. I always end up falling asleep instead of just laying down with him for a few minutes. Maybe I should just start dragging myself back up after a few minutes tired or not.

 

Then this sounds like a problem entirely of your own making. He's staying in his room, in his bed, but just whimpering? Ignore it. In a few days, he'll learn to self-comfort and go to sleep on his own. Problem solved. If you always jump in and interfere with the process, he'll never learn to fall asleep by himself and you could be setting him up for lifelong sleep issues.

[Farrar]

crying isn't always manipulative. He stays in HIS bed whimpering/crying. He doesn't do it loud on purpose. He will close his door and I can go walk by and faintly hear him. Actually I didn't ask for help, more like complaining about something annoying that I'm trying to manage with until it passes. I'll just let this thread drop off. I totally forgot this is a really non attached parenting place LOL! I know you don't know MY kid and I really have no issue with some people thinking something is manipulative when we all have our own opinions. I always end up falling asleep instead of just laying down with him for a few minutes. Maybe I should just start dragging myself back up after a few minutes tired or not.

 

I don't know that it's totally an AP issue... We're AP. We co-slept for the first three years of my kids' lives. But I had to accept that it wasn't working for helping my kids sleep. I don't think it's un-AP to say to an 8 yo (who is not a baby anymore, after all) that he has to learn to sleep on his own and you'll happily support him in doing so, but you can't do it for him. After all, you can't.

 

But I can also just commiserate. And it sounds like you're doing what you feel like you can. :grouphug:

[Mommyof4ks]

I feel your pain. Ds sleeps with us from 1am until he wakes up nearly every night. Most nights I do even notice anymore lol.

[momofsbandeg]

What I did:

 

Put sleeping bag on floor next to my bed.

 

Told dd she was welcome to come in and sleep in sleeping bag as long as she didn't wake me up.

 

Rule: you are 8 years old....if you wake me up, I put you back to bed. If you are quiet and don't wake me up you can stay.

 

She did this until she was 10.....but at least she didn't wake me up anymore.

If you she woke me...out she went!!

 

Faithe

 

Thankfully she is 11 and has slept in her room all night for almost a year.:D

[justLisa]

I don't know that it's totally an AP issue... We're AP. We co-slept for the first three years of my kids' lives. But I had to accept that it wasn't working for helping my kids sleep. I don't think it's un-AP to say to an 8 yo (who is not a baby anymore, after all) that he has to learn to sleep on his own and you'll happily support him in doing so, but you can't do it for him. After all, you can't.

 

But I can also just commiserate. And it sounds like you're doing what you feel like you can. :grouphug:

 

Thanks. I am just speaking of the harsh attitude about manipulating/causing him life long issues etc. Everyone's entitled though....

 

and like I said, the kids have really comfy full sized beds, so while I really should just go in, tuck back in and leave, i'm tired too and it's too easy to just crawl in bed and fall asleep! He sleeps half the night, but I haven't actually waited out to see how many hours he would stay awake in the middle of the night if I didn't care. DD comes in our bed, but she's so quiet and little that it doesn't bother me. And for the most part she sleeps well.

[Carpe]

Some people sleep in two stretches. Is it possible that he is one of them? If he is, when he wakes up in the middle of the night he has no idea what to do with himself because everyone else is sleeping.

 

My husband is one of those people, and so are the boys, but I am not. I made DH come up with quiet things that all three of them could do in the middle of the night while they're very awake waiting for their second sleep. Things that will not wake mommy. I'll have to ask him what they came up with.

[justLisa]

Some people sleep in two stretches. Is it possible that he is one of them? If he is, when he wakes up in the middle of the night he has no idea what to do with himself because everyone else is sleeping.

 

My husband is one of those people, and so are the boys, but I am not. I made DH come up with quiet things that all three of them could do in the middle of the night while they're very awake waiting for their second sleep. Things that will not wake mommy. I'll have to ask him what they came up with.

 

 

Hmmm this may be. I never thought about it. DH is a night owl. He literally fought all growing up sleeping at night. He just couldn't do it. He used to drag himself to jobs while younger that required he be present in the morning, but he just couldn't be productive until a certain time. Fortunately he has a flexible schedule and works from home at nights sometimes. Plus he works with people all over the globe which makes weird work hours. I don't know if I told him you can turn on a little light and do whatever is quiet in your room if that would work. I would worry that he'd literally never sleep!

[Lovedtodeath]

My daughter turns 10 this summer and still doesn't sleep even half the night without me. I am just these past few months able to get up earlier than her.

[Mrs Mungo]

I totally forgot this is a really non attached parenting place LOL!

 

I'm an AP parent. IMO, that doesn't mean avoiding dealing with problem behaviors. But, if you just want support versus advice, you can always say so.

[Lovedtodeath]

I am enjoying the support and advice in this thread. :)

[milovany]

I would SO pay him if that would work. My 8-10 year olds would love to have some money to spend. 50 cents in a jar for every night they sleep in their own bed, and when it hits $10, they then have to go 10 nights in a row without coming in (no new cash); mark the days with a $. After those 10 days are up, they get the cash. Give it a shot!

[VeganCupcake]

I have offered my 3 year old money to go back to bed in the middle of the night. :lol: It works for her! I remind her at bedtime that if she stays in her bed until the appropriate time (signaled by a special clock), she can have her nickel. Trips to the bathroom are always allowed. She also has a couple of nifty nightlights from Ikea and a lot of books.

[Little Nyssa]

In our family we have used a chart for staying in bed all night. At the end of a month a highly valued prize was given! (Lego). It has to be something very highly valued and then DS is able to make himself go to sleep & stay there! It worked very well, but did not become a permanent change til maybe the third round. This is what worked for us after many other stratgies failed.

[laundrycrisis]

Habit, not a fan of being alone in the dark. Tried it. He will keep coming back or eventually feel bad and sit up in bed whimpering.

 

Then don't ask him to be alone in the dark. Both of our kids sleep with three lamps on. One is a regular reading lamp. Two are very low light lamps (salt lamp, lava lamp, or low wattage bulb). They are also allowed to have their doors open. I will also suggest a low dose of melatonin at bedtime. And if he has general anxiety about a lot of other things, I would get some professional help with that.

[CroppinIt]

Habit, not a fan of being alone in the dark. Tried it. He will keep coming back or eventually feel bad and sit up in bed whimpering.

 

My older brother had a dickens of a time sleeping on his own. He had two reasons.

 

First, his tonsils were enlarged for years and affected his breathing and screwed up his sleep. Once they figured that out, he no longer wet the bed, either (he'd sleep through it because he was so exhausted from not sleeping well).

 

Also, he simply didn't like to be alone in the dark either. My mom gradually moved him from her bed to the floor (on a mattress of some sort, not just the floor!). Then one day she got tired of stepping on him in the mornings, so she told him he couldn't sleep in her room anymore... so he slept right outside her door so she stepped on him anyway.... I tell you all of this to let you know that he now sleeps 2,000 miles away from her and she does get to sleep all night. There IS hope. :hug:

[Lovedtodeath]

I have bribed (huge) and punished DD for not sleeping in her own bed, or for waking me up. It makes no difference. It would if she was capable.

[besroma]

What I did:

 

Put sleeping bag on floor next to my bed.

 

Told dd she was welcome to come in and sleep in sleeping bag as long as she didn't wake me up.

 

Rule: you are 8 years old....if you wake me up, I put you back to bed. If you are quiet and don't wake me up you can stay.

 

She did this until she was 10.....but at least she didn't wake me up anymore.

If you she woke me...out she went!!

 

Faithe

 

Great idea!

[swellmomma]

Ds13 does not cosleep with me an has not since he was 3 BUT he still wakes in the night and if he is up I have to be up, meaning I have not slept through the night in almost 14 years.

[2_girls_mommy]

I get a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when I read a thread like this, because my ds is 17 months and I have been operating on very little sleep since he was born. Sleep deprivation is horrible and I've been hanging on to the hope that he will improve a lot when he turns two.

 

You're a better woman than I, there is no way I can continue with interrupted sleep for that many years!

 

I don't have any help for the super long termers on no sleep. But I wanted to tell you that we had one like yours. We actually started sleeping through the night at 19 mos. I was a zombie before then. She was still nursing on demand at night by then, but only at nap and bedtime during the day. I decided one night at 12:30 am that I was done nursing 2 or 3 times in the middle of the night. So I filled a cup with milk, gave it to dh and sent him in with no warning. It only took 2 or 3 nights before she stopped crying out for me at night, and we all got better sleep after that. Have hope.

[Onceuponatime]

We did this also with our dd til she was 12! I just had to remember to look at the floor before I stepped out of bed in the morning. :-)

[Guest Kfrogg]

What I did:

 

Put sleeping bag on floor next to my bed.

 

Told dd she was welcome to come in and sleep in sleeping bag as long as she didn't wake me up.

 

Rule: you are 8 years old....if you wake me up, I put you back to bed. If you are quiet and don't wake me up you can stay.

 

She did this until she was 10.....but at least she didn't wake me up anymore.

If you she woke me...out she went!!

 

Faithe

 

This was exactly what my parents did with me until I was about 10. I guess I just grew out of being afraid at night, and started sleeping all night in my own bed. Though I did have a night light until I was about 13.

[justLisa]

Ds13 does not cosleep with me an has not since he was 3 BUT he still wakes in the night and if he is up I have to be up, meaning I have not slept through the night in almost 14 years.

 

LOL! Well, last night kiddos slept over at grandmas. Of course DH played poker with buddies and came in at 4am :glare:

[wapiti]

I like the suggestions about a sleeping bag on your floor, etc. Is there a sibling he could share a room with?

 

At this point, he is accustomed to waking up fully during the periods of the sleep cycle when people naturally come close to waking up. That's not easy to fix.

 

I would start by (1) not respond to whimpering (unless he's sick), and (2) definitely not get into bed with him. He needs the confidence that he can do this, himself. If his anxieties are severe, then maybe professional help is warranted. Consolidated periods of sleep matter for things like brain growth and learning.

 

One other thought: difficulty getting back to sleep after night waking can be caused by over-tiredness, and so it may be a vicious cycle. I'd be sure to set an early bedtime for him, every night. A late bedtime is a recipe for a night-waking problem.

 

You might also talk with your ped about any other physical issues that might contribute to the sleep problem, such as snoring due to large adenoids/allergies, and the like.

 

My dd11 is very sensitive and is sometimes afraid of sleeping alone in her room. But, I know from experience (when she was younger), I can be gentle and loving but firm. I cannot be at her beck and call in the night or it would be an every-night event.

[Cindyg]

Melatonin changed our lives. I can't recommend it enough. (It's not for everyone, but it's worth a try.)

[nmoira]

:grouphug:

 

Well you are a saint because by this point I would have resorted to drugs or something. :lol:

 

:grouphug:

*cough*laudanum*cough*

[Julie in CA]

And I can't have them sleep on the floor. He has slept in a sleeping bag elsewhere and wakes up uncomfortable.

I get the attachment parenting thing, but for me, the attachment parenting was only taken as far as was *good for the child*.

 

If you think he might be uncomfortable now, life for him if he doesn't get the chance to develop self-comforting skills will be even more uncomfortable. :001_huh:

 

It's entirely possible that in the mindset of loving our dc, we unintentionally create situations that hinder their progress. We do our dc no favors when we allow things to go on that are clearly not in their best interest. Helping him develop the skills that other children have now, and that he will need in the future, would be a kindness to him, and part of responsible and un-self-centered parenting.

[mom2jjka]

I have been there. My daughter was 11 before she slept in her own room.

 

We.tried. everything. (and I do mean everything)

Attachment parenting, cry-it-out, melatonin, 'monster spray', praying over her and her room, bribery, counseling, even surgery (thinking her adenoids/tonsils were causing sleep apnea)

Not one thing helped.

 

Then one day something just 'clicked'. She made it through one night, then three, then a week - and she's been fine ever since. She has the occasional 'bad dream' where she'll come to us for reassurance - but she always goes back to her room and goes to sleep.

 

Praying you get there soon.:grouphug:

[melissel]

I don't know that it's totally an AP issue... We're AP. We co-slept for the first three years of my kids' lives. But I had to accept that it wasn't working for helping my kids sleep. I don't think it's un-AP to say to an 8 yo (who is not a baby anymore, after all) that he has to learn to sleep on his own and you'll happily support him in doing so, but you can't do it for him. After all, you can't.

 

But I can also just commiserate. And it sounds like you're doing what you feel like you can. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: I'm about as AP as they come, but I also think that at some point, you're not doing yourself or him any favors. You mentioned that he sleeps with music and a soft nightlight. My oldest slept with a dim nightlight for years, until it finally occurred to me to try to turn it off in the middle of the night. Turns out she slept MUCH better without that little bit of light in her eyes. There have been many studies showing that the darker and quieter one's sleeping environment is, the better they sleep. Might he agree to let you turn off the nightlight, at least, after he falls asleep, as long as he can have the flashlight with him? Then you could wean him off the music as well?

 

Truly, both of my girls slept with nightlights until just a year or so ago, and when I finally started turning them off after they fell asleep, they both slept so much better, with fewer night wakings for my youngest as well (though she didn't have a problem staying in her own bed after I tucked her back in).

 

LOL! Well, last night kiddos slept over at grandmas. Of course DH played poker with buddies and came in at 4am :glare:

 

What happens when he sleeps at Grandma's house? Does she sleep with him as well, or does he find some other way to cope? (ETA: That may have sounded snarky. I'm asking honestly, wondering if it might offer a clue to how you can help him at home.)

Edited April 21, 2012 by melissel