Danestress Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Have you ever talked to your children about suicide? I am not planning any big discussion at the moment, but I am regularly so horrified by suicides of young people in the news - related to bullying, being gay, etc. My children are so normal and well adjusted, but even so. Can you have conversations that "inoculate" children? Tonight I was driving carpool and the kids in the car were talking about a child at their school - a 12 year old - who killed himself this week. I asked what they were talking about and they gave me the general picture. The boys Mom died last year, the Dad "hated" him. Whether that is true or not, I can't even imagine a 12 year old taking his own life, and yet it does happen. And when it does .... well, no word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I've been thinking about discussing suicide with my eldest as part of his "growing up" talks we regularly have. Dh takes care of most of the boy to man stuff, but I think this subject is one that either parent could discuss with children of either gender (if that makes any sense). The trouble is I really don't know how to introduce it. I mean I hear the news stories, but ds really doesn't and I'm not sure how much, if anything, he's even heard about suicide. So, I suppose the point of that rambling is that theoretically I think it's a good idea (at appropriate age/developmental levels); but, I'm not sure how to do it. Clear as mud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I don't think there is a conversation that inoculates. I think it is all those conversations you have that contribute to them KNOWING you like them. Not just love them, but LIKE them. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 We have been talking about it since my oldest was 7 years old and had planned his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Hm, no, I never have. My daughter is 11 and I've never seen the slightest cause for concern. If I ever did, or if there was ever an issue where she knew of somebody who attempted it or we saw something in the news together or heard a story, or whatever, I think I would use that to initiate a conversation. Something along the lines of how tragic it was that kids/teens felt that something was so bad in their lives that they felt the need to do that/attempt to do that, that it's an irreversible decision that would cause them to miss out on so many potentially good things down the road in their lives, that I would hope no matter how bad things were, my kids would never even consider that, that I would always help them through any situation in their lives, no matter how bad it was, that I would always love them and be there for them, no matter what was going on in their lives, etc, that I hoped they knew they could always come to me with anything and I'd be there to talk to and help them, and I'd leave it at that. I don't think I'd broach it before age 10-12ish and in that range it would depend on if I saw something concerning or if something had come up that was some sort of springboard either in person or in the news etc. If they got to be 13ish and nothing had made it come up, maybe then it might be a good idea in health or current events or conversation to casually one day go you know it's so sad when you hear about all these things that come up in the news blah blah blah and sort of broach it because you never know what's going on with hormones, puberty, teen angst, what they're hearing behind your back and so on. I never really thought about it! Probably should though! I certainly had by 13ish (never tried but had thought about it)! P.S. I want to add that I already have all along tried to convey to my children that they can always talk to me about anything and that I love them no matter what and tried to instill in them a positive sense of self-esteem and self-worth and so on, and I think that's very important! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fhjmom Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Unfortunately, we have talked about it earlier that I thought we would need to. Several years ago, older DD's best friend committed suicide at the beginning of their sophomore year. It hit our family hard and I do not believe DD will ever truly get over it. My younger ones saw the affect the friend's death had on their sister and the older two knew her and adored her as well. We have talked a lot about how much she was loved by so many people, even if she felt alone for some reason, and how temporary thosesituations really are. We talk about how much they are loved, no matter what, and not for what they do but who they are. I don't think our friends (the parents) ever thought they would be facing this and I believe they did everything in their power to let their child know she was loved as well. Depression and the minds of teens can just be a scary combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes, we've talked about it. In our case we have had friends and family who have been touched by suicide. We've talked about it in a general way - more of a this creates more problems than it solves sort of a way - at least for those left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes, I've had the conversation with ds. Someone I had went to school with killed himself a few years ago, it hit me hard. We talked in a general sense. Within the next few months a 13 year old boy killed himself in a Catholic school just down the street from us. I had head the sirens, but didn't know until later. Ds was 12. We had some hard discussions because I just lost it. I talked about being upset with my life as a pre-teen, how I remembered how difficult it was sometimes. I talked to him about the world that is waiting for him, that he has potential he does not yet know, that 12, 13, 30 is not the pinnacle of life. The you are worth more than you know type discussions. I have some close friends who've made attempts, it's been a continual discussion in our home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 We first discussed with with Van Gogh, when kiddo was 4. I have had more than one patient commit suicide, and we discuss this when it happens. Age appropriate was comparing "crying" over something for a few minutes, vs. every day all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 We first discussed with with Van Gogh, when kiddo was 4. I have had more than one patient commit suicide, and we discuss this when it happens. Age appropriate was comparing "crying" over something for a few minutes, vs. every day all day. is that maybe for some kids, they aren't depressed, crying all day, every day. Maybe for some kids, something really sad or difficult is occurring, and they don't understand the full implication of dying. So they do something impulsive, with permanent implications. This is so painful to write about and I don't want to trigger anyone else. I actually tried to read a website about teen suicide to see if maybe I am wrong - maybe this only happens with kids who are seriously, long term depressed. Honestly, I had a hard time even reading the website. Anyway, maybe this is bad thing to post about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 maybe this is bad thing to post about. No, it's not. At least, not for me. I am grateful you posted this. And quietly reading all the replies. Thank you. It hits too close to home to write more. Just ... Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 We have talked some. Not a lot. My cousin's best friend committed suicide when they were 16 years old. He felt his dad hated him and that he could never live up to his dad's expectations. I am sure there was more to it, but my cousin still can't talk about it without tearing up, and that was 30 years ago that it happened. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Innoculate?? I like that word and think I know what you mean. I have attempted to discuss and model non-catastrophic thought patterns and a longitudinal view of life ever since my child's uncle completed death by suicide when she was three. I really do think that it is something akin to avoiding other genetic diseases. Education, modeling and vigilance in the form of knowing when an issue deserves attention, acting from a place of freedom and not living in fear of being disliked. :lol: Those who know me either love me or loathe me and I am fine with it. I could not care less. The need to be liked and the approval seeking, validation from others as the sole measure of one's worth are sure paths to the road of depression. Genetics play a role but when we know the name of the death genes they are not frightening, once we name it, we know it and can act longitudinally rather than short term panic reactions to disappointment, rejection and cruelty. One thing that has always really chapped my ass about suicide is the self soothing people engage in that" it could not have been prevented." Absolute utter hogwash. Involvement, innoculation, observation and caring firm guidance to assure compliance with meds if needed can make all the difference. Of course making sure the insurance companies are not practicing medicine and determining the length of hospital stays would save millions of lives but that is a whole other discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teresa in MO Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 No, it's not. At least, not for me. I am grateful you posted this. And quietly reading all the replies. Thank you. It hits too close to home to write more. Just ... Thank you. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:, unfortunately I know exactly what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 is that maybe for some kids, they aren't depressed, crying all day, every day. Maybe for some kids, something really sad or difficult is occurring, and they don't understand the full implication of dying. So they do something impulsive, with permanent implications. This is so painful to write about and I don't want to trigger anyone else. I actually tried to read a website about teen suicide to see if maybe I am wrong - maybe this only happens with kids who are seriously, long term depressed. Honestly, I had a hard time even reading the website. Anyway, maybe this is bad thing to post about. I need to talk about it every once in a while. I sat and cried while reading this thread. I've dealt with my own depression and seen the bottom of the barrel in my own life. But I get up each morning and start fresh. I have a friend that wrote a book about his own version of a sabbatical. It was a very personal journey, but he was able to step out of his life for a period of time and just chill and ponder. He came back as a more content person, it's hard to explain, but he was different. As adults, I'd like to see people be able to escape their lives every once in a while, and be able to step back in refreshed. With teens, I don't necessarily understand, but it breaks my heart. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:, unfortunately I know exactly what you mean. I'm sorry. :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) I have discussed it with my 10 and 7 year olds. I think it was when a young girl killed herself after being bullied last fall. She was just 9 or 10. The conversation focused on a lot of what Nance mentioned above. I also discussed how problems can seem huge when you are going through them, and it can be hard to see how they will ever get better. It is especially hard for children having problems with school or friends to realize that it is just a tiny portion of their whole long life. As an adult it is easier to change your circle of friends or acquaintances and put things in perspective. It is a sad topic, but suicides seem to be happening younger and younger. :confused: ETA: I googled it and found the story from last November. There were two 10yo girls (IL and NC) who committed suicide after being bullied. Edited February 24, 2012 by Julianna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 :iagree::iagree: It's interesting that you say that. My dad always used to tell me "I may have to love you, but I don't have to like you". Here's to charming fathers, :cheers2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug's Mom Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Haven't really discussed it with dd (9) yet. A musician friend of ours killed himself a couple of years ago. So far, she hasn't asked why we never see him play anymore. We hadn't seen him in a while at that point... I've been chatting on facebook with the younger brother of a classmate of mine. My classmate killed himself sophomore year. The younger brother was 5 and remembers so much about his brother and has so many questions. My nephew (my age) was a good friend of his and at Christmas I told him that the little brother would like to contact him. He was surprised, but seemed ok with it. Last I heard, they hadn't connected yet. It will be 30 years in November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 is that maybe for some kids, they aren't depressed, crying all day, every day. Maybe for some kids, something really sad or difficult is occurring, and they don't understand the full implication of dying. So they do something impulsive, with permanent implications. This is so painful to write about and I don't want to trigger anyone else. I actually tried to read a website about teen suicide to see if maybe I am wrong - maybe this only happens with kids who are seriously, long term depressed. Honestly, I had a hard time even reading the website. Anyway, maybe this is bad thing to post about. When ds planned his I didn't know he was depressed. He never cried all day every day. It was then that I learned his depression presents like mine. When ds or I are battling depression we get angry. He felt too stupid to live because he could not keep up in school. Turns out the teacher was refusing to use his IEP and so he couldn't learn much of anything. DS was only 7 so he had not figured out the exact method he was going to use but he was absolutely determined to die. I never thought the day would come when I had to put my 7 yr old on antidepressants and suicide watch. THat was when we started homeschooling. We have talked about it often since then. EVen when not in a deep depression I do not want him harboring those thoughts (or any of the kids to be) so we talk often of why someone might have those thoughts, and why they should not be acted upon, how they are trick thoughts (because you are not seeing the world clearly when battling depression) etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I've told my kids what suicide is, but I've never talked to them about the nitty gritty details. We are studying WW1 right now, and today we read about some soldiers who committed suicide rather than continue in trench warfare. So they know what it means and that it is a sad and desperate thing people do when they feel like they have no other choice. :grouphug: to everyone who has had suicide hit so close to home. I can't imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise1mds Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 My kids are aware of the concept at the age of 9 and almost 7, and it's a subject that is, unfortunately, part of their lives whether they like it or not. Just last week, one of their grandparents attempted suicide. The kids don't know all the nitty-gritty details (nor do they need to, as far as I am concerned), but they understand that so-and-so did harm themselves and that it could have ended fatally. My uncle committed suicide before the kids were born, and now this... and with DD's mood disorder, it's something that has come up before in conversation, anyway. I simply tell the kids that usually someone has very bad thoughts before they do something like that and that the best way to avoid it is to talk and try to get help for yourself or for the other person before things get too bad. I'm sure the conversations will get deeper as they get older. My true sympathy goes out to anyone who has been affected by suicide. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 We had talked about suicide with our children in a number of different situations. It has come up in history lessons and current event discussions. DH volunteered on a suicide hotline before dc were born, and he has shared some of that experience with them. In the past month, however, it has really hit home as a dear friend and neighbor committeed suicide. She had a 12-year old daughter to whom she was extremely devoted. Even with all of dh's training in suicide prevention he saw absolutely no signs of this coming. My kids are devastated and trying to make sense out of it. Three days later a girl in our neighborhood who was a year older than my dd committed suicide. I am glad that we had had so many conversations before, but everyone is still in shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 We've talked to our children. I am not sure how it came up at first, maybe when we were discussing my family history. (I had an uncle, a Vietnam vet, who killed himself when I was young.) My kids seem to be processing things over time, little by little, rather than all at once. They have asked some pretty perceptive questions. We've talk about why someone might want to commit suicide, and also about what it is like for the people left behind. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I have talked about it with dd13. She was dealing with some massive perfectionism issues and not living up to her own standards. It was brutal for me to realize just how badly she needed help and I didn't know how to help. I sent a rather panicked email to a local counselor and she has been talking to dd13 for 6 months or so. We have been out of the dark place for a while but are only now getting to work on the perfectionism issues. It is utterly the most scary thing I have ever dealt with. Going to sleep the night I found out how hurt she was feeling was beyond terrifying. Thankfully we are past there and things are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I don't think we've spoken about it directly, mostly because it has not really come up. If it did, as in the kids talking in carpool or otherwise, I would. Mostly, my efforts at inoculation have stressed that they are loved and have many options: *mom and dad love them and will always be there for them *many other people love them, and if you feel like you can't go to your parents with a problem, please go to grandma or uncle or another trusted person *if they are unhappy or troubled, we want to hear about it *they have choices - very few things are non-negotiable *they are loved, liked, enjoyed, and appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 A loved one committed suicide when I was young. All the adults sugar-coated it in front of me, but I knew. It was very hurtful to not be told plainly. I needed to know. I just recently learned a whole bunch more about the details that led up to the depression and hopelessness. My dc know that this person committed suicide (though it was obviously long before they were even born), and I have talked a bit about it. I have also told them that it makes me sad to think and talk about it, so please don't ask me too much. I think talking about having a balanced life is just as important as the actual suicide talk. The death doesn't happen in one day. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 My cousin committed suicide a couple of years ago, and a year later his father, my uncle committed suicide. So, we've talked about it and depression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katiejane Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I have spoken to my kids about it. One of our family friends committed suicide so we had a lot of discussions around that time. The kids went to his funeral. It was very very sad. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) I watched a documentary on student debt a couple of years ago. One of the kids they covered had killed himself over something like $12,000 worth of debt. The creditors were harassing him and he was too ashamed to go to his family, so he felt there was no other way out. That was mind blowing to me. And it was mind blowing to his mother as well because she would have helped him without question. Ever since I've seen that show, I occasionally tell my kids that no matter what problems they are facing or trouble they may have gotten into, I will always stand behind them and help them in any way I can. I want them to know they can come to me without fear of reproach or shame. To think of dying over a $12,000 debt just horrifies me. Lisa Edited February 24, 2012 by LisaTheresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes, we talked earlier than I would have preferred, but it was unfortunately relevant enough so I felt we had to address it. I have attempted to discuss and model non-catastrophic thought patterns and a longitudinal view of life ever since my child's uncle completed death by suicide when she was three. I really do think that it is something akin to avoiding other genetic diseases. Education, modeling and vigilance in the form of knowing when an issue deserves attention, acting from a place of freedom and not living in fear of being disliked. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Have you ever talked to your children about suicide? I am not planning any big discussion at the moment, but I am regularly so horrified by suicides of young people in the news - related to bullying, being gay, etc. My children are so normal and well adjusted, but even so. Can you have conversations that "inoculate" children? Tonight I was driving carpool and the kids in the car were talking about a child at their school - a 12 year old - who killed himself this week. I asked what they were talking about and they gave me the general picture. The boys Mom died last year, the Dad "hated" him. Whether that is true or not, I can't even imagine a 12 year old taking his own life, and yet it does happen. And when it does .... well, no word. It has come up because when my daughter was in high school one of her friends committed suicide. It was just awful. There were many conversations over many months about suicide and grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I am watching a piece on TV about a college student who committed suicide. It makes me SO ANGRY! Tyler Clamenti. I hadn't heard his story before and I am so angry that his roommate set up a webcam and invaded his privacy and embarrass him. I am glad he is being charged. http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-tyler-clementi-suicide-trial-begins-today-dahrun/story?id=15776275#.T0eaBJgqOqQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 One of my children has had a major depression so I worry a great deal even though he seems fine now and has for awhile. My friend developed a program to educate teens about depression and bipolar disorder. It's oriented to schools, but the website has a great deal of helpful information. Please look at it: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/specialty_areas/moods/ADAP/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca VA Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I think there's a point where you can get too comfortable with the idea of death, too knowledgeable about suicide, so that it becomes the first thing you think of when you're depressed. There's something to be said about keeping things a little hush-hush -- not that you're in denial, but you're saying that these things are so awful they should only be mentioned with great reservation and sadness. When my younger brother was about eight, he was so unhappy at home that he tried to run away. (We'd lost our mother two years earlier, and our stepmother was very unloving.) Running away was something he "knew" because this was the late 1960's and many kids and teens were running away to join communes or whatever. If this were happening today, he would try to kill himself, no question, because that's what kids today "know." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 we spoke with our daughter about it last month. we had two kids commit suicide at our church within the same week. my husband attended both funerals and really was heart-broken. my daughter's friend told her what had happened, so we followed up with talking about it openly and let her use us as a sounding board for her own thoughts. my best friend took her own life several years ago & left her 3 year old behind. my daughter knows about this as well. we've not really talked to our son about anything yet. but as it eventually becomes a topic in his own life, we will address it as it comes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 This is a very realistic fear. There's no question that impulsivity plays a role in some suicides. Please PM me if you want to talk more about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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