So how would you address this situation?

[NanceXToo]

My 20 y/o special needs daughter is in a program where she goes out with someone for five hours a week (each Saturday) to work on some skills/goals and for a social outing.

 

Sometimes they go to an event, sometimes they just go to the library and out to lunch and to do a bit of shopping, sometimes they end up back at the woman's house doing some crafts or watching a movie, it's not always easy to find a way to fill the five hours, especially in the colder weather.

 

The woman gets paid of course from the company she works for, and I send money for my daughter each week for her lunch and spending money. It used to be that the woman would get reimbursed for certain things she did. Now she says they no longer get reimbursed for entrance fees and so on, so I guess she tends to look for more free and low cost things to do, which is fine.

 

A few months ago, my daughter asked if they could go see the Twilight movie when it came out and the woman said only if my daughter paid for her ticket, too. I was a bit caught off guard by that but the woman explained, via text: "I told Melissa if she wanted to do the movies she would need to purchase my ticket because the state stopped the reimbursements for direct care staff. I try to find low cost things to do and all activities we have done since the law passed July 1st I have paid my own way. I try to make it fair to my clients by providing meals like pierogies and tacos with Melissa and snacks and drinks. Also there are times my mileage is over 30 miles and I only get reimbursed up to 30 miles and at a rate 10 cents below the federal standard."

 

So I thought OK I guess the lady is providing meals for my daughter sometimes instead of going out to eat when they hang out at her house, so fine I'll buy her movie ticket. And I did.

 

Today, my daughter came home and said she'd had McDonald's for lunch and had bought some used movies for $4.00 at the thrift store and she'd gone on some of the woman's errands with her and they'd watched a movie at the woman's house. She had a dollar and change back from the $20.00 I'd given her. It turned out she said the woman had made her buy HER lunch at McDonald's, too.

 

My initial reaction was why in the world would she make my daughter (or ME, really) buy her McDonalds? I am supposed to be sending money for MY DAUGHTER'S meals, not to buy this adult woman who is doing her job lunch, too.

 

But then I said, "Well, she would probably say that she's been providing you some meals like perogies at her house recently for lunch. Is that it?"

 

Then my daughter said, "Well sometimes we go shopping and I buy the perogies, too, we take turns buying it when we eat at her house."

 

This just isn't sitting right with me. Am I over-reacting, or is it inappropriate? I don't feel I should be financially responsible for anybody other than my child (nor do I really feel this woman should be financially responsible for anybody other than herself). I have no idea how she's going about figuring out who is paying for what and when and how but it feels pretty random and informal and not exactly appropriate to me. How do I go about putting a stop to it and arranging it so that this woman provides her own meals and I only pay for my daughter's without sounding like I'm being rude or trying to get her in trouble? I feel a little awkward but I don't want it to continue like this. How can I say it in a matter-of-fact, polite, professional sounding way?

 

If they go to a restaurant, the woman should pay for herself, right? If she doesn't want to spend money at a restaurant and that's what my daughter wants to eat, she should just let my daughter pick some up to take back to her house and the woman can eat whatever she has at home, right? If the woman wants to go to a grocery store and make something that day, my daughter should just have the option to pick up a sub or a "Lunchable" or what have you, right? It just seems too complicated for her to go "You chip in for our lunch today" (especially since sometimes the woman's 15 year old daughter is at home eating the perogies or whatever, too). It's just too confusing. (Let's not get into the nutrition aspect for today lol, these Saturday lunches are like her treat).

 

Anyway, thoughts welcome!

[JFSinIL]

My son is 20, and I am his rep payee/guardian/Mom ;) and yesterday we went to the movies. I used my Visa but kept the receipts to reimburse myself for his ticket and his popcorn from the monthly Social Security check he gets. I figure I am enjoying the movie, too, so I pay my own way. If it had been a movie I did NOT have any desire of seeing, I might be getting reimbursed!!! (Transformers, etc.)

 

Now - I am a Mom, not a minimum-wage paid person like your dd's aide. I can see how if they go to a restaurant, even just McD., the woman may simply not be able to afford to or want to spend her money on the food there. Rather than deny your dd the restaurant outing, she has your dd pay for her food, too. I think it is reasonable. It is, after all, a time for your dd to be out and about enjoying herself (with supervision from the lady) NOT the lady's own time and choice of activity.

 

The adults in this house tend to brown bag it (even my attorney husband!) rather than waste money buying lunch. Don't assume the aide can afford to eat out.

Edited February 18, 2012 by JFSinIL

[A.Balaban]

My cousin is a special needs adult living in a group home. Whenever he goes somewhere, someone who works at the group home tags alone (say like we are visiting and take him out to eat). From my understanding - my mom always covered him. She became friends with him so I am not sure if it necessity or not.

 

I would suggest you at least start to keep track of the Saturdays and how your dd spends

the money- not as a reflection on your dd but so you can see what is happening. Do you have the option/availability to tag along? I am sorry this is happening but I would listen to your gut.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Is this the same woman you had issues with before? The one who was letting Melissa buy too much and wanted extra money for it? (lotions or something IIRC?)

 

If so, it may be time to find someone else. HOWEVER, if she and Melissa just get along famously and you think it is just a perfect fit I would try to put some boundries in place with the worker.

[MedicMom]

I worked for a program like this as a skillbuilder/respite worker. I received mileage and was given a set amount of cash a month to spend on client outings. They actually discouraged eating out, so the cash was used for activities. It was to be used for my admittance fees as well. I do know budget cuts have hit these program hard.

 

I would tell her you are okay with occasionally providing money for your daughter, but don't want it to be used for the worker's lunch. If you dont get anywhere, call your service coordinater and explain the situation. I honestly would make sure that they really are mo longer providing a small amount for these sort of things and what their policies are

...it is likely they have policies in place to prevent workers asking parents for money.

 

I left the job simply because I could not come up with enough cheap things to do in my rural, cold-9-months-a-year area. It really is a difficult job.

[QueenCat]

I would check with the woman's employer on what their policy states.

[Mrs Mungo]

Do you have a caseworker or someone with whom you can discuss it? They would know the law and what can/cannot be reimbursed as well as what might be typical in these arrangements.

 

It sounds like she's trying to be balanced. But, maybe tracking outings and/or asking for receipts when your dd pays for things might be a good idea?

[Jennifer3141]

If I were you, I would call the company and verify that these cuts have actually occurred and ask them if they have a policy about who pays for what.

 

I get that social programs and agencies are under a great deal of duress right now however, DH just busted a rehabilitation center that was billing Medicare for providing a daily aid/movement therapist to one of DH's patients. DH got a little suspicious and investigated the guy. As it turns out, the rehab center sent the JANITOR to the hospital (at a nice little penny) to "work" with the patient. (The patient cannot really be worked with anyway but that's another issue). Anyway, the rehab center tried to justify it by saying that they wanted to provide a "therapist" the patient was familiar with... :confused::confused::confused:

 

Now that people are looking deeper into what this rehab center REALLy does, they are finding more and more instances of people just flat out getting ripped off.

 

A professional company that provides this kind of service should have policies in place for these kind of expenses. I mean it's primarily for "socialization," correct? Then it seems like a no-brainer that events will of course take place out in society and there isn't that much free out there. Going to the movies seems like reasonable activity to improve social skills. It's not like you were looking at an $90 opera ticket!!! There MUST be some sort of policies in place for this agency....

[WillametteMom]

I certainly don't think you should be paying for meals other than your dd's. The employee gets paid by the company for doing her job, it isn't your responsibility to subsidize her meals.

 

Can you speak with the supervisor of the program and find out what the guidelines are? You don't need to bring up any concerns yet if you aren't ready to do so, but having the program guidelines at hand might help you decide how to approach this.

[bettyandbob]

I think I would contact the agency the provides your dd's Saturday companion. I would ask for clarification on the activities and expenses.

 

If I really wanted to make a point, I might consider packing a sack lunch for dd to take with her and not send money unless the companion stated ahead of time they needed admission fees. And then I might send enough to cover the fees. However, making a point would depend on what kind of relationship dd had with the companion. It would also depend on whether there were other options for companions and what the program was accomplishing for dd toward life goals.

 

I don't know exactly what I'd do. My special needs kiddo is only 10. He's trying out a Sat respite program for the first time next week and just the thought feels strange personally, but he has to do it in order to see if he can go to a day camp for special needs kids in July.

 

OK I really don't know what to do except what I said in my first sentence. Then, I'd evaluate the situation with clarifications from her agency.

[tex-mex]

Is there any way to do more life skills than going out to theatres or meals? Like seasonal cooking, knife skills, bread making, volunteering at a local shelter, or learning to balance a checkbook? And if she cannot afford the recipe to make cake or bread, you buy it and let them use your kitchen.

 

It sounds like the worker is having to pay out of pocket for meals and entertainment, which may be a hardship?

[In the Rain]

Do you have a caseworker or someone with whom you can discuss it? They would know the law and what can/cannot be reimbursed as well as what might be typical in these arrangements.

 

It sounds like she's trying to be balanced. But, maybe tracking outings and/or asking for receipts when your dd pays for things might be a good idea?

 

:iagree: I would find out what the worker is supposed to be reimbursed for.

 

I also think you could easily say that your family is starting a new budget plan, and will be tracking all expenses. Ask the aide to insure that Melissa receives receipts when she spends money. This will enable you to see how often Melissa is treating.

[*********]

Nance, I would speak with the aide's employeer. They MUST have some recommendations on how you should handle this.

 

I would say that, if the aide is not getting reimbursed by her employeer anymore for her expenses when she takes your daughter out, and the aide does not want to spend her own money, then she needs to plan outings with that in mind. I assume one of her responsibilities in her work is to plan the outings? Now, if when she was hired, she was getting reimbursed for her outing expenses, and then the rules changed, that certainly does make the woman's job more difficult.

 

But frankly, that's not you or your daughter's problem.

 

The aide should have things in mind to do with Melissa that both don't REQUIRE the aide to buy anything (admittance or food) and don't require the aide to drive more than a total of 30 miles. The aide should either be working withing the paramaters of her job, or else paying her way.

 

If it helps avoid any uncomfortable situations with you and Melissa, perhaps each week when Melissa comes home from her outing, you and the aide could briefly discuss the plans for next week's outing. There there's no scenarios like the aide comes to pick up Melissa, asks her what she wants to do, Melissa picks something that will cost the aide money, and then the aide feels stuck, iykwim.

 

Now, if the situation is more of one where your daughter gets to suggest the outing, then that makes it more difficult. I mean, if your daughter gets to say 'Today I want to go out to eat and see a movie', and the aide is expected to do what Melissa wants but no longer gets reimbursed, then I don't really know what to say. If that's the case, then perhaps you, Melissa, and the aide need to change it more of a situation where you and the aide agree ahead of time on what will be done.

 

That's tough one. I'd certainly start by calling the aide's agency/employer, explaining the situation, and seeing what they recommend.

 

I would add that the aide should have discussed this all with you when her employeer stopped reimbursement, so that you all could have come to some mutual agreement. Sounds like the aide is not so good at communication.

[NanceXToo]

My son is 20, and I am his rep payee/guardian/Mom ;) and yesterday we went to the movies. I used my Visa but kept the receipts to reimburse myself for his ticket and his popcorn from the monthly Social Security check he gets. I figure I am enjoying the movie, too, so I pay my own way. If it had been a movie I did NOT have any desire of seeing, I might be getting reimbursed!!! (Transformers, etc.)

 

Now - I am a Mom, not a minimum-wage paid person like your dd's aide. I can see how if they go to a restaurant, even just McD., the woman may simply not be able to afford to or want to spend her money on the food there. Rather than deny your dd the restaurant outing, she has your dd pay for her food, too. I think it is reasonable. It is, after all, a time for your dd to be out and about enjoying herself (with supervision from the lady) NOT the lady's own time and choice of activity.

 

The adults in this house tend to brown bag it (even my attorney husband!) rather than waste money buying lunch. Don't assume the aide can afford to eat out.

 

See, I don't think it's reasonable for her to expect us to pay for her lunch every week. Taking my daughter out is her job and the hours do happen to include lunch time but that shouldn't mean we have to pay for her lunch all the time. She has options, which include: buying her own lunch, asking my daughter to get the lunch to go instead of sitting there with it, bringing a snack along and just keeping my daughter company but not eating the fast food lunch and then eating her own meal afterward, bringing her own brown bag lunch in (I highly doubt the McD's workers would notice or care if one person at a table was eating a brown bag lunch while the other ate a McD's value meal), etc, but I don't think telling her special needs client and her family to pay for her lunch should be one of those options.

 

My daughter also just told me that last time they went out (they went to a winter carnival pageant thing which was an evening event and I sent money for my daughter's ticket and a pizza dinner) that the woman had her buy her pizza that night, too.

 

Is this the same woman you had issues with before? The one who was letting Melissa buy too much and wanted extra money for it? (lotions or something IIRC?)

 

If so, it may be time to find someone else. HOWEVER, if she and Melissa just get along famously and you think it is just a perfect fit I would try to put some boundries in place with the worker.

 

Yep, same one. Also the same one who let her get fake nails put on one time and then came home and said "You guys owe me extra for this, she didn't have enough." And let her spend money she didn't have on lotions and said, "You guys owe me extra for this, she didn't have enough." We did resolve that issue (although it took a couple of attempts/conversations) and that letting her overspend hasn't been a problem anymore but now this is a separate issue. She actually only sees this woman every other week now and someone else on the alternate weeks...I don't know if I should work to resolve this issue, try to just switch away from this woman, or what. My daughter likes her, but my daughter likes everybody. She just likes the chance to be social period. She doesn't care who with as long as the person is nice to her.

 

I worked for a program like this as a skillbuilder/respite worker. I received mileage and was given a set amount of cash a month to spend on client outings. They actually discouraged eating out, so the cash was used for activities. It was to be used for my admittance fees as well. I do know budget cuts have hit these program hard.

 

I would tell her you are okay with occasionally providing money for your daughter, but don't want it to be used for the worker's lunch. If you dont get anywhere, call your service coordinater and explain the situation. I honestly would make sure that they really are mo longer providing a small amount for these sort of things and what their policies are

...it is likely they have policies in place to prevent workers asking parents for money.

 

I left the job simply because I could not come up with enough cheap things to do in my rural, cold-9-months-a-year area. It really is a difficult job.

 

I always hesitate to call the service coordinator or the supervisor because I don't want to get anyone in trouble or make anything awkward between my daughter and the person she goes out with. And I know, it is hard to find things to do. They usually go to the library, look around the thrift shop, have lunch, do some sort of craft and/or watch a movie at her house, if they can find some community event going on, they do that. I'm going to start looking more in the free events paper and online to see if I can find things going on in the community that are free or low cost to see if I can point these workers in the direction of things going on that they can maybe do with my daughter. Like I know next Saturday there's a puppet show at the mall. My daughter likes to go to the pet shelter and see the animals. She likes bowling and I have some free passes. I did ask the supervisor to see if she could maybe find them any volunteer opportunities, but I guess that isn't easy. Maybe with the warmer weather coming on they can do some walks and picnics and such.

 

I think some of you are right that I should at least make a call and find out if there's an official "policy" on this stuff.

[Coffeetime]

See, I don't think it's reasonable for her to expect us to pay for her lunch every week. Taking my daughter out is her job and the hours do happen to include lunch time but that shouldn't mean we have to pay for her lunch all the time. She has options, which include: buying her own lunch, asking my daughter to get the lunch to go instead of sitting there with it, bringing a snack along and just keeping my daughter company but not eating the fast food lunch and then eating her own meal afterward, bringing her own brown bag lunch in (I highly doubt the McD's workers would notice or care if one person at a table was eating a brown bag lunch while the other ate a McD's value meal), etc, but I don't think telling her special needs client and her family to pay for her lunch should be one of those options.

 

I absolutely agree with you and I think what she's doing is completely inappropriate. It really sounds like she's taking advantage of your daughter.

[Mrs Mungo]

I always hesitate to call the service coordinator or the supervisor because I don't want to get anyone in trouble or make anything awkward between my daughter and the person she goes out with.

 

I think it should be okay as long as you sort of frame it in a "I understand the regulations have changed, and I'd like to know what the rules are for workers getting reimbursed so that I can help my dd make good decisions" sort of way instead of a "is this woman ripping me off" way.

[Ottakee]

This can be a tough situation.

 

First, I would call the supervisor and not accuse anyone, etc. just ask for clarification. Ask, does so and so get an expense amount for the month or does that need to come out of my daughter's money or ??? Just politely ask for clarification.

 

I can see you not wanting to have your daughter spend all of her money on someone else but on the flip side, if your daughter is the one wanting to do all of these activities that cost money and the lady is only making minimum wage, she honestly might not have the money to do these things unless you help pay her way.

 

My son is 24 and my girls are 15 and 16 and qualify for occ. respite (not weekly but occ). I do try to send money along to cover the respite provider's ticket/meal if I can---nothing fancy but I realize that reason they are at these places is because of doing something with my child.

 

You could also talk with her before each outing or a few days in advance for planning and say, "Melissa will have $10 to spend this week and she would like to go shopping for finger nail polish so I will send along a sack lunch for her this week" or "Melissa is really wanting to go to Burger King this week so she will have $10 with her--$5 for her meal and $5 for yours". If you are clear up front about how the money is to be spent and if you are covering a meal or not, that really will help.

 

There are times when I have my son cover my meals and gas out of his money......like if I am making a special trip to the mall for him to go to a video game store (we are rural so it is a bit of a drive) and then he wants lunch. Now, he doens't pay for me to eat a steak dinner, but I will have him pay for my McDonalds at times as the whole reason we are out and about is for HIM. Now, if I am heading to Walmart and he tags along to look at movies there, I wouldn't charge him as I am going anyway and then I might pick up a $5 sub for us to split there.

[NanceXToo]

What if I just contact her via email and say something like:

 

Hi,

 

We are trying to work on family budgeting and on having Melissa work on her own budgeting as well, as a life skill.

 

I understand that you have been sort of trading back and forth with her, where sometimes you buy groceries and feed her lunch at your house at your expense, and other times you have her buy you lunch out in return.

 

To keep things cost-effective for us as a single-income family with three kids, and to help Melissa learn to the best of her ability how to work on her own budget, I need to ask that from now on, Melissa's money only be used on herself each week, unless we make special arrangements in advance, such as when she wanted to see Twilight with you.

 

Likewise, I know things have gotten tougher for you as well since the state stopped doing reimbursements for direct care workers, so I do not want you to have to use any of your money to pay for groceries or other provisions for her, either.

 

I understand that sometimes Melissa may want a fast food meal or meal out that you may not have budgeted for for yourself that week, and if that is the case, please feel free to request that she get it to go so that you can prepare your lunch at home or so that you can pack a lunch for yourself if you guys wanted to have a picnic or whatever your plans are for that day. If your plan is to have perogies or something at home for yourself when Melissa is with you, maybe she can just grab herself a sub or something to bring back to the house, or a Lunchable or some such if you're in the grocery store. I can also start packing her a snack, so that you do not have to provide snacks for her if that tends to be an issue at your house.

 

Regarding outings and things to do, I know it can be hard to find low cost or free things to do, especially in the colder months! I am going to start trying to look more in the free papers and online sites to see if I can notice anything coming up that you guys might be able to do. For instance, next weekend there is a free puppet show at the mall at 11, and the weekend after that at the mall there is an education expo from 10-2 where local schools, libraries and Child Development are setting up stands with activities, crafts and displays. I will get March's free paper to see what is coming up after that.

 

I also have some free passes for bowling. And Melissa enjoys spending some time at the animal shelter. Maybe they'd let you guys visit with the cats, help walk the dogs and so on. And with the warmer weather coming up, she could use some exercise and maybe some walks and picnics and the lake would be nice, too!

 

Times you end up back at your house crafts are good for fine motor skills (I know you guys often like doing crafts together), and if you wanted to work on other life skills with her, too, that would be great- using knives (even with play dough), if you have board games that involve counting money or something like that, she can do something like that, and so on. Once in a while instead of spending money on a fast food meal, perhaps she can buy the ingredients for a simple meal that she can prepare or mostly prepare on her own as a goal that she can work on.

 

She loves to write (letters, diary entries etc), and I know you guys were doing a scrapbooking thing for a while, maybe she can do a sort of journaling thing and toward the end of the day she can do a little journal entry of what she did that day or something.

 

I'm fine with her doing things that cost money sometimes but like I've said before it's good for her too to know that she doesn't always have to spend money, and that way you aren't always obligated to spend money each week, either!

 

Nancy

 

---

 

Or something like that...?

Edited February 18, 2012 by NanceXToo

[Hannah C.]

Have there been any issues of this sort with the other aide? Has the other aide said anything about less money to cover outings, etc?

[Little Nyssa]

Before confronting the lady, I would find out from the agency what the actual guidelines are.

[Ottakee]

That might work----just make sure then that you are covering the cost of all of the craft/scrapbooking, etc. supplies. that they use there.

 

********

I understand how this is as my son has $30 left for the month but is SURE he needs to spend $25 today on a video game...........not really understanding that he wont' have any money left for the rest of the month. He is very high functioning in many areas but money is just TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH.

[NanceXToo]

Have there been any issues of this sort with the other aide? Has the other aide said anything about less money to cover outings, etc?

 

No...and I'm trying not to make it confusing for you guys, but it's actually TWO other aides lol...they are actually a relatively new development. She used to only go out with this one woman, but then my daughter went to her dad's in NY over the summer and the woman took on another client and could only take my daughter every other week, and for some reason the agency assigned TWO new aides, who switch off on the alternate weeks. So she sees this main woman every two weeks, an then on the alternate weeks she sees one of the new ones one time, and the other new one another time... I have no idea why, I think they were both newer hires that they were just trying to give hours to. They both seem pretty nice but they're also both pretty new and so my daughter's only been out with each of them a handful of times so far and so they were probably hired after that became an issue to begin with. My daughter says they both pay for their own meals and expenses all the time. Neither of them have asked her to pay their way for anything and neither of them have said anything to me about money.

[amy g.]

I'd just try to get her permenantly switched to the other two aides.

[*********]

I'd just try to get her permenantly switched to the other two aides.

 

Nance, this seems like the easiest solution, IMO.

[Mynyel]

I think the letter sounds good!

 

I wouldn't be paying for her meals either. It is her choice on whether she eats or not. If she is hungry she pays for it. You aren't forcing her to eat out and she, jolly well can pack a lunch if she doesn't want to spend money. Jeez, it isn't any different than if you go running errands and a friend comes with you. You don't make your friend pay for you meal because they want to go out. You either eat or you don't.

 

If it continues after the letter then I would get someone else.

[clarkacademy]

I worked with special needs adults and often took them places. That being said I WOULD NEVER expect them to pay for my anything. If I choose to eat at whatever place because they want it then that is my food my problem. Plenty of times they wanted to go places I did not have the money for I simply did not eat. To me it is like using a disabled person for personal gain.

 

Regardless of the job it does not matter I still have to feed myself. This just seems wrong wrong wrong. Furthermore my job was them not running my errands on their time, that seems selfish as well. I also have a special needs son who recieves disability every month and I would never dream that he or his check owes me for taking him to a movie.

 

I would consider that quality time with my child regardless of his age. Maybe I misunderstood that past post but I would never feel I needed to reimburse myself with his money, that seems a fine line between being a loving parent and and taking advantage. I would never expect a disabled person to pay my anything not in my home, not in my job. It seems harsh.

[NanceXToo]

I'd just try to get her permenantly switched to the other two aides.

 

Nance, this seems like the easiest solution, IMO.

 

It did cross my mind. I just feel bad, like I'd be firing somebody or breaking up with them lol. I know she has a full time job outside of this and has other clients aside from my daughter and would probably just fill in my daughter's hours with somebody else's but it's still hard not to feel bad about it. I don't know. Maybe I'll try the letter first and if I don't get a good response or it continues to be an issue after that, I'll do that though.

 

I think the letter sounds good!

 

I wouldn't be paying for her meals either. It is her choice on whether she eats or not. If she is hungry she pays for it. You aren't forcing her to eat out and she, jolly well can pack a lunch if she doesn't want to spend money. Jeez, it isn't any different than if you go running errands and a friend comes with you. You don't make your friend pay for you meal because they want to go out. You either eat or you don't.

 

If it continues after the letter then I would get someone else.

 

I kind of equate it to somebody who has a regular 9-5 job who has to figure out what to do over their lunch break. They can either 1) Go out to eat and pay for their own lunch or 2) Pack a lunch. They can't go out to eat and ask their boss to reimburse them for their lunch since they had to pay for it while they were working, though. :P

[NanceXToo]

I worked with special needs adults and often took them places. That being said I WOULD NEVER expect them to pay for my anything. If I choose to eat at whatever place because they want it then that is my food my problem. Plenty of times they wanted to go places I did not have the money for I simply did not eat. To me it is like using a disabled person for personal gain.

 

Regardless of the job it does not matter I still have to feed myself. This just seems wrong wrong wrong.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. I just imagine that if I ever had a job where I had to take a special needs person out and I had to take them to lunch, I couldn't even fathom asking them to spend their money to buy MY food. I could never do it. I'd buy my own food, just like I would if I was still working at my secretarial job and was out on my lunch break, or if I was at any other job and had to feed myself on my lunch break.

 

And if I felt I didn't want to spend money on McD's, I wouldn't eat. I'd wait until i got home and make my own lunch, or I'd have had the forethought to pack a lunch or a snack, or I'd just buy myself a coffee or yogurt parfait or some such so I wasn't starving and wait it out. But telling them, "You need to buy my meal today?"

 

I just can't imagine. I would never.

 

And she never even said to me, the parent, in advance, "Just so you know, I'm going to have to make arrangements where your daughter will need to take care of some of my meals because of this, or just so you know we're trading off this and that, is that okay," she just told my daughter she had to do it.

 

It only came up because I asked her if she had change, and she told me only about a dollar, and I asked her, "Well, how much were the movies you bought?" And she said, "$4.00." And I said, "Well, how much was McDonalds?? You said that was all you did today, right?" And then she was like, "I had to buy so and so's lunch, too...." And then later it came up that last time she'd bought her pizza, too...

[Impish]

Where I worked, this would be a huge freaking NO. Clients were not ALLOWED to pay for staff, period. End of story.

 

Too risky, in terms of potential abuses.

 

No, you should absolutely NOT be responsible for paying for the worker in any way, shape, or form.

 

The worker can absolutely decline and say that, "I'm sorry, I cannot take you to the movies." etc if the agency no longer covers admission, etc for her, but def not your responsibility to be paying her way.

[Ottakee]

I would certainly talk to the supervisor about the guidelines for this.

 

See, in my situation, the respite providers are private people that do this apart from a company, etc. I hire them like a babysitter---on as as needed basis, etc. Since they are friends/relatives of mine, I like to offer to pay their way if they take my kids to something that costs money. If this though is more of a company that is doing respite, then your daughter shouldn't have to pay for the employee's stuff----unless agreed upon ahead of time and it is within company policy.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I worked with special needs adults and often took them places. That being said I WOULD NEVER expect them to pay for my anything. If I choose to eat at whatever place because they want it then that is my food my problem. Plenty of times they wanted to go places I did not have the money for I simply did not eat. To me it is like using a disabled person for personal gain.

 

Regardless of the job it does not matter I still have to feed myself. This just seems wrong wrong wrong. Furthermore my job was them not running my errands on their time, that seems selfish as well. I also have a special needs son who recieves disability every month and I would never dream that he or his check owes me for taking him to a movie.

 

I would consider that quality time with my child regardless of his age. Maybe I misunderstood that past post but I would never feel I needed to reimburse myself with his money, that seems a fine line between being a loving parent and and taking advantage. I would never expect a disabled person to pay my anything not in my home, not in my job. It seems harsh.

 

:iagree: I totally agree and I used to work with special needs adults doing exactly what you've hired these aides to do. I would try to switch to the other aides all the time.

[NanceXToo]

I would certainly talk to the supervisor about the guidelines for this.

 

See, in my situation, the respite providers are private people that do this apart from a company, etc. I hire them like a babysitter---on as as needed basis, etc. Since they are friends/relatives of mine, I like to offer to pay their way if they take my kids to something that costs money. If this though is more of a company that is doing respite, then your daughter shouldn't have to pay for the employee's stuff----unless agreed upon ahead of time and it is within company policy.

 

This is a state-wide organization that hires these people and sets us up with them for an agreed upon number of hours each week (5 hours in our case). They screen them, hire them, call me up and say we have somebody for you, we'll bring them out to meet you, and if you like them, they'll start taking your daughter out on Saturdays. Let us know a few skills/goals you want them to work on with her, let us know what kinds of things your daughter likes to do, give your daughter some money for her outing, and they'll go have a social outing and work on some of those skills and goals, and that's about the extent of how that works. It's not really babysitting, or somebody I hire. I don't pay for this service other than to pay for my daughter's outing; it's a non-profit organization I believe so I don't even know how they get their funding or pay their employees, but it's not by charging me. I just pay my daughter's way and didn't expect to pay her 'direct care worker's' way, too.

Edited February 19, 2012 by NanceXToo

[Hannah C.]

Since you said that the other aides have always paid their own way and never tried to make it otherwise, I think the main aide's behavior seems even more fishy. I would try and find out the official policies on this topic and go from there - either with your letter, or just switching your dd to the two non-problematic aides.

[Joy at Home]

Nancy, I can see why this is not sitting well with you. I have staff for my daughter, and I understand that if they are asked to take her somewhere where a fee is required, i.e., the pool or zoo, it is my responsibility to pay their admission since, after all, I am asking them to go. But in your case, it seems she is pushing that to mean than any expense incurred in their outing, however, optional, is coming out of your daughter's money, and that is not right. She is stretching it to a point where she is taking advantage of your dd.

 

I hope you find a resolution to this matter. If you feel you can salvage a good relationship with her by setting firmer boundaries, I might try that first. But if you feel she would be insulted and take it out on your dd, I'd end it.

 

Sorry this is happening:grouphug:

 

Lisa

[justasque]

This is the second time she's crossed boundary lines. Like other posters, I would inquire at the agency (without making it about her) as to their policy.

 

My concern would be that she is talking your daughter into giving her money or paying for her stuff, when part of life skills is knowing when NOT to do such things for other people, you know? If that becomes a normal thing, is it setting your dd up for being taken advantage of by someone else, even if the current situation is deemed appropriate?

 

The aide does have a legitimate concern, though - how can they do stuff if she has no budget for it? I would like to believe that someone at the agency is also looking in the paper for free activities, negotiating discounts with local attractions, and so on, or at least that the aides have a way to share the info they find with each other. (As a side thought, that would be a great non-profit, wouldn't it? I have a friend who works for a non-profit that pairs musicians who need gigs with agencies who need entertainment - sober living facilities, elder housing places, etc.) Might want to ask about how this is supposed to work, etc.

 

As homeschooling moms, we do this kind of thing a lot - making something from nothing, coming up with activities to work on specific skills, etc. Sometimes we tend to think that since it's second-nature for us, it is the same for everyone, but alas that is not the case. Providing more supervision/feedback/direction might be a good idea in general, especially if your goal is one of learning skills rather than just baby-sitting.

[Slipper]

I hire therapists to do things with my daughter and sometimes the timing is during a meal time. They typically brown bag it. If I ask them to take her to McDonalds, I have offered to pay their way, but they never accept my offer. (Actually, they usually pay her way as well as their own!).

 

I can understand that budget cuts may have made things difficult. It's also possible that she's having some personal financial issues of her own. I'd sit down with her and ask her how outings and meals should be arranged so that it's fair all the way around. If Melissa asks for a special movie, it's probably on you to pay for her ticket as well. If you want to alternate buying groceries every other week, that sounds more than fair (and would be great to teach cooking skills). (Although if you do that, I would make a list of appropriate things to buy and set a budget).

 

I don't think you should have to pay for her meals. As you said, she can get the food to go and eat it at the worker's home while she fixes herself a sandwich.

 

Another thing is to see if local zoos, museums, etc have a yearly pass you can buy that would be free for both of them. I think looking for free/low-cost things to do is great (but really, she should be doing that).

 

Good luck :)

[gardening momma]

After reading the whole thread, it sounds to me that the aide is taking advantage of your daughter. I would go higher up and find out what she's allowed and not allowed to do before I send a letter to her.

[Ottakee]

Nancy, I can see why this is not sitting well with you. I have staff for my daughter, and I understand that if they are asked to take her somewhere where a fee is required, i.e., the pool or zoo, it is my responsibility to pay their admission since, after all, I am asking them to go. But in your case, it seems she is pushing that to mean than any expense incurred in their outing, however, optional, is coming out of your daughter's money, and that is not right. She is stretching it to a point where she is taking advantage of your dd.

 

 

I think this might be the KEY difference. In the 1st case, the mom is ASKING the provider to go to the zoo, movie, pool, etc. and therefore is prepared to pay the fee for the staff to take her child there..............in your case, it is more like the staff is deciding to take Melissa to these things (and maybe even asking her "hey, do you want to go to McDonalds today (which my kids would all say YES to) and then expecting you to foot the bill afterwards.

 

In the first case, the staff is doing what the parents are asking and in your case, it seems like the staff is doing what she wants to do and then having your daughter (and you) foot the bill.

 

Does that make sense?

 

When I pay for our provider to do things it is because I ask them, "can you take ......to the movies this weekend?" or "could you take .........to the Y to swim on Thursday?"

[kathymuggle]

Where I worked, this would be a huge freaking NO. Clients were not ALLOWED to pay for staff, period. End of story.

 

Too risky, in terms of potential abuses.

 

No, you should absolutely NOT be responsible for paying for the worker in any way, shape, or form.

 

The worker can absolutely decline and say that, "I'm sorry, I cannot take you to the movies." etc if the agency no longer covers admission, etc for her, but def not your responsibility to be paying her way.

 

:iagree: , particularly with the bolded.

 

You should not be asked to pay. If the state is not paying (and you do need to clarify this) then there is a good possibility outings with costs are not going to happen.

 

On the restaurant issue…I would not be Ok with bringing your Dd to a restaurant or even a drive through unless I was also eating. It sets up a certain have and have-not dynamic I am uncomfortable with. I would pay for myself, the state would pay for it, or I would not go.

 

Are you Ok with her not doing outings with a fee due to lack of repayment by the state?

[NanceXToo]

Nancy, I can see why this is not sitting well with you. I have staff for my daughter, and I understand that if they are asked to take her somewhere where a fee is required, i.e., the pool or zoo, it is my responsibility to pay their admission since, after all, I am asking them to go. But in your case, it seems she is pushing that to mean than any expense incurred in their outing, however, optional, is coming out of your daughter's money, and that is not right. She is stretching it to a point where she is taking advantage of your dd.

 

I hope you find a resolution to this matter. If you feel you can salvage a good relationship with her by setting firmer boundaries, I might try that first. But if you feel she would be insulted and take it out on your dd, I'd end it.

 

Sorry this is happening:grouphug:

 

Lisa

 

Yeah, see, in my case I was told up front that the whole point of this was to go on social and recreational outings while working on skills/goals and that I was just to pay my daughter's way.

 

In your case you had an understanding up front that you would pay the staff's way, too, so it's different.

 

When things changed for my person's case, where supposedly they stopped getting reimbursed, there was still no statement handed down where clients were told "You guys have to start paying your caretakers' way"... instead it was more of an issue where the caretakers' had to pay their own way and not get reimbursed, and so they started looking for more free or low cost things to do if they didn't want to spend that much money. Which is fine! But for her instead to start telling my daughter, "You need to buy my lunch, my ticket" etc when the agency never told me that and the other staff isn't doing that and she never discussed it with me other than regarding the movie ticket (and to be honest she only "discussed" it with me that time because I texted her and inquired about the fact that she told my daughter she would need about $30 that night and that my daughter had said she would need to buy her ticket too) is just unsettling and seems inappropriate to me.

 

It would have been way different if the expectations up front were if you want them to do paid things you have to pay so and so's way, too, you know?

 

This is the second time she's crossed boundary lines. Like other posters, I would inquire at the agency (without making it about her) as to their policy.

 

My concern would be that she is talking your daughter into giving her money or paying for her stuff, when part of life skills is knowing when NOT to do such things for other people, you know? If that becomes a normal thing, is it setting your dd up for being taken advantage of by someone else, even if the current situation is deemed appropriate?

 

The aide does have a legitimate concern, though - how can they do stuff if she has no budget for it? I would like to believe that someone at the agency is also looking in the paper for free activities, negotiating discounts with local attractions, and so on, or at least that the aides have a way to share the info they find with each other. (As a side thought, that would be a great non-profit, wouldn't it? I have a friend who works for a non-profit that pairs musicians who need gigs with agencies who need entertainment - sober living facilities, elder housing places, etc.) Might want to ask about how this is supposed to work, etc.

 

As homeschooling moms, we do this kind of thing a lot - making something from nothing, coming up with activities to work on specific skills, etc. Sometimes we tend to think that since it's second-nature for us, it is the same for everyone, but alas that is not the case. Providing more supervision/feedback/direction might be a good idea in general, especially if your goal is one of learning skills rather than just baby-sitting.

 

Those are both very good points! About my daughter not knowing how not to get taken advantage of and the woman not necessarily helping with that, but also about the woman maybe needing help coming up with activity ideas.

 

I look into stuff all the time, things around here to do with kids that are free, low cost, going on in the community and so on. But she probably doesn't do that and may not even know how to. So like I said, I'm going to spend more time myself looking into ideas and making specific suggestions for them.

 

I think I will call my services coordinator and ask him about policy and how it works with reimbursement and fees and such and find out if what she is doing is strictly against policy and what she's supposed to get reimbursed for and what she isn't these days, but ask him not to say anything to the supervisor about it, that for now I will handle it on my own by talking to the aide and see what happens (unless it turns out that she's doing something she's totally not supposed to and he feels he HAS to address it or something)!. After I hear what he has to say, I will likely send some version of the email I just showed you guys to her and take it from there.

[kathymuggle]

As for practical advice - I would go with the other aides given your previous issue with this aide or I would make it clear that any outing with costs would have to be cleared beforehand (claim it is part of your budget process).

[NanceXToo]

I think this might be the KEY difference. In the 1st case, the mom is ASKING the provider to go to the zoo, movie, pool, etc. and therefore is prepared to pay the fee for the staff to take her child there..............in your case, it is more like the staff is deciding to take Melissa to these things (and maybe even asking her "hey, do you want to go to McDonalds today (which my kids would all say YES to) and then expecting you to foot the bill afterwards.

 

In the first case, the staff is doing what the parents are asking and in your case, it seems like the staff is doing what she wants to do and then having your daughter (and you) foot the bill.

 

Does that make sense?

 

When I pay for our provider to do things it is because I ask them, "can you take ......to the movies this weekend?" or "could you take .........to the Y to swim on Thursday?"

 

Right, I don't ask them to take her to specific places. They both agree on things to do together. My daughter can make suggestions but so can the aide, and they agree together on what to do that day. My daughter can't insist, "I want to go to the movies or theme park" or something expensive and the aide has to go "okay, if you say so."

 

My daughter's very easy going and can be persuaded to do pretty much anything, really...like I said, she just likes being with people and going out, so she'll say yes to pretty much anything suggested. She just really wanted to see Twilight, the movies were a one time thing. Often the aide will make suggestions and say, "I was thinking we'd go to the library and to get some lunch and go over to my house to do a craft, does that sound good?" and my daughter will go, "Okay." Or the aide will go, "Do you want to do anything special today?" and my daughter might go, "I don't know, the mall for pizza and to get my nails painted?" and the aide might say sure and they'll go do that. Or sometimes the aide might say there's a football game at the high school or I heard of an event at the mall or such and such and they go do that. We never tell them they have to go to a specific place.

[Night Elf]

I think some of you are right that I should at least make a call and find out if there's an official "policy" on this stuff.

 

What if you just say you're aware there have been some policy changes and you would like to know what they are. That way you aren't outing this person for doing anything wrong. Shouldn't you have a right to know what services they offer? And if they changed the services, shouldn't you be notified?

 

Have you sat down with this woman and told her you cannot afford to subsidize her food and activities? If the service used to reimburse her and now they don't, did the service train the workers on the new policies and give them suggestions for things to do that do not cose money? I'm assuming the service doesn't expect workers to pay their own way. Maybe they just reduced it? If this woman is no longer getting the same money she was getting before, she needs to rethink her employment and not expect the parents to take over where the service left off. I would be sympathetic with her but I would explain you simply do not have that much money to spend every weekend anymore than she does!

 

And I wouldn't let your dd buy anything without advance permission. There is no reason the outing can't be planned beforehand so that you can have all the necessary items and/or money needed for that particular day. If she gets a value meal from McDonalds, give her $5.00. If the worker cannot take her because she can't afford it then something is wrong with that service. But I don't know exactly how it works so I may be way off base. At the very least, I would definitely require receipts. You can say your daughter is learning how to keep a written record of the money she is spending. If you see charges on those receipts for things your daughter did not eat or come home with, there is a problem.

 

Do you mind telling me what kind of service this is? Is it government? I'd love to know the qualifications and whatnot. I wish I knew another adult besides me and DH that could do something like that with my ds15. He rarely leaves the house except to go out to eat.

[NittanyJen]

Okay, I have read this entire thread through, and here is where I sit.

 

This aide is behaving unethically with your daughter, and if she has other clients, she may be harming them as well.

 

As one PP said, one skill your daughter should be learning is appropriate social boundaries and how to not be taken advantage of, and instead she is being taught inappropriate boundaries and how to be taken advantage of (she should not be buying the woman's groceries or meals. That is unprofessional behavior).

 

What other boundaries are being broken if this trust barrier is being broken?

 

I dislike feelings of confrontation or getting people in trouble, but whether this woman is behaving inappropriately through ignorance or malice, her employer needs to know and it needs to stop. I dislike the abuse of those who cannot defend themselves more than I dislike my own discomfort.

 

That said, I think a call to the employer to inquire about the policies the way several PP's have suggested may work, as well as transferring to the other two aides. It sounds as if your gut is telling you something isn't right, and I is wise to listen to those gut feelings. That may feel less confrontational to you, and still signal to the employer that there may be a problem without being confrontational or making accusations.

Edited February 19, 2012 by NittanyJen
Tried to soften tone a bit ;}

[Catwoman]

Since you said that the other aides have always paid their own way and never tried to make it otherwise, I think the main aide's behavior seems even more fishy. I would try and find out the official policies on this topic and go from there - either with your letter, or just switching your dd to the two non-problematic aides.

 

Sounds like this aide is pulling a fast one.

 

I would speak with her supervisor ASAP, and be very direct about what this one particular aide is doing. I have a strong feeling that she is taking advantage of your dd's good and generous nature, and that she is probably expressly forbidden to take any money (or free lunch) from her.

 

I find it particularly suspicious that the aide didn't mention the pizza or the meal at McDonald's. :glare:

 

I think it's awful that this aide would weasel your dd into spending her own limited money on an extra lunch! Personally, I would have no worry whatsoever about whether or not this woman gets into trouble for what she's doing. If she is allowed to do it, she won't get into trouble when you call her supervisor. If she is intentionally taking advantage of your dd when she is not allowed to accept the money (and it's not lunch, it's your dd's MONEY,) she deserves any punishment that she receives.

 

And think about it, Nance -- she's probably pulling the same stunt on her other clients, so by reporting her, you may be saving other families money they didn't even realize their child was spending on this woman.

[Impish]

Sounds like this aide is pulling a fast one.

 

I would speak with her supervisor ASAP, and be very direct about what this one particular aide is doing. I have a strong feeling that she is taking advantage of your dd's good and generous nature, and that she is probably expressly forbidden to take any money (or free lunch) from her.

 

I find it particularly suspicious that the aide didn't mention the pizza or the meal at McDonald's. :glare:

 

I think it's awful that this aide would weasel your dd into spending her own limited money on an extra lunch! Personally, I would have no worry whatsoever about whether or not this woman gets into trouble for what she's doing. If she is allowed to do it, she won't get into trouble when you call her supervisor. If she is intentionally taking advantage of your dd when she is not allowed to accept the money (and it's not lunch, it's your dd's MONEY,) she deserves any punishment that she receives.

 

And think about it, Nance -- she's probably pulling the same stunt on her other clients, so by reporting her, you may be saving other families money they didn't even realize their child was spending on this woman.

:iagree:

[Ottakee]

Do you mind telling me what kind of service this is? Is it government? I'd love to know the qualifications and whatnot. I wish I knew another adult besides me and DH that could do something like that with my ds15. He rarely leaves the house except to go out to eat.

 

My 3 kids qualify for respite services. In our area, it is handled through the county Community Mental Health. They have you fill out forms for each child (need a doctor's note or IEP or testing to prove special needs) and then you check the severity in many different categories---from personal safety, to amount of medication they need, if they are ambulatory, have behavioral challenges, need help with self care, etc.

 

In ours, they said to rate our kids on their WORST days as they all have their ups and downs behaviorally as that is when we are most likely to need extra help.

 

Our respite amounts vary for each child but does cover a 4 day special needs camp, and then respite for a few hours at a time up to complete weekends if dh and I want to get away. Dh and I chose the day/times we want to use it and chose the people we want to watch the kids. We chose some friends and relatives to get "certified" (need just very basic safety and first aid training). If you don't know of anyone, they do have a list of people available (many are special ed teachers/aides or foster parents that do this).

[NanceXToo]

Do you mind telling me what kind of service this is? Is it government? I'd love to know the qualifications and whatnot. I wish I knew another adult besides me and DH that could do something like that with my ds15. He rarely leaves the house except to go out to eat.

 

I PM'd you about this particular service and another that we use...

 

 

My 3 kids qualify for respite services. In our area, it is handled through the county Community Mental Health. They have you fill out forms for each child (need a doctor's note or IEP or testing to prove special needs) and then you check the severity in many different categories---from personal safety, to amount of medication they need, if they are ambulatory, have behavioral challenges, need help with self care, etc.

 

In ours, they said to rate our kids on their WORST days as they all have their ups and downs behaviorally as that is when we are most likely to need extra help.

 

Our respite amounts vary for each child but does cover a 4 day special needs camp, and then respite for a few hours at a time up to complete weekends if dh and I want to get away. Dh and I chose the day/times we want to use it and chose the people we want to watch the kids. We chose some friends and relatives to get "certified" (need just very basic safety and first aid training). If you don't know of anyone, they do have a list of people available (many are special ed teachers/aides or foster parents that do this).

 

We had to do an intake as well, they came and had us fill out all sorts of forms and met with us and my daughter and asked a billion questions about her abilities and needs and so on and so forth, and then they tell us about all the different types of services they provide and we can select which ones we are interested in. We use this thing where she goes out a few hours a week, and we use another program where she does a monthly adult recreation program, but there are all sorts of things available from more of a babysitting/respite care to vocational training to living facilities to sheltered workshops and so on and so forth. And this particular agency isn't the only one in the sea, there are a bunch of them. You could google mental health services for your state or county or mental retardation services or whatever best suits what you are looking for and see if you can find some sort of agency or advocacy place that you can call, and you'll find someone who can at least point you in the right direction if you'd like to start getting some services- there are lots of free services!

[OrganicAnn]

Okay, I have read this entire thread through, and here is where I sit.

 

This aide is behaving unethically with your daughter, and if she has other clients, she may be harming them as well.

 

As one PP said, one skill your daughter should be learning is appropriate social boundaries and how to not be taken advantage of, and instead she is being taught inappropriate boundaries and how to be taken advantage of (she should not be buying the woman's groceries or meals. That is unprofessional behavior).

 

What other boundaries are being broken if this trust barrier is being broken?

 

I dislike feelings of confrontation or getting people in trouble, but whether this woman is behaving inappropriately through ignorance or malice, her employer needs to know and it needs to stop. I dislike the abuse of those who cannot defend themselves more than I dislike my own discomfort.

 

That said, I think a call to the employer to inquire about the policies the way several PP's have suggested may work, as well as transferring to the other two aides. It sounds as if your gut is telling you something isn't right, and I is wise to listen to those gut feelings. That may feel less confrontational to you, and still signal to the employer that there may be a problem without being confrontational or making accusations.

 

I think one of the biggest thing SN kids need is this. It is also learning to know the difference between taken advantage of and normal friendly interaction.

 

I would also contact the company and find out more about their policy. Ironically if the women accepts meals from clients on a regular basis, she probably is supposed to declare that as income.

[clarkacademy]

I just called one of the people I used to work with because I wanted to be clear on something. It has been a few years so I just wanted to double check. I was told that back then as well as now the helpers are not under any circumstance ever allowed to ask a client for money or to pay for anything except their own needs.

 

Not sure how it works in your neck of the woods but it is considered staeling and it is a BIG reason to get fired as well as have charges filed. Theft of clients even if they willingly give it considering the mental abilities of some it still is theft.