Catholic Moms (or any other Christians who aren't shove-it-down-their-throat)

[AimeeM]

Today, in the car, we passed Bob Jones University putting up their huge nativity scene. Autumn, very passingly, comments "I don't know why they believe in that stuff" (or Him, something like that). I, in turn, asked "you don't know why who believes in what sweetie?". She then says "why people believe in God; it doesn't make sense". She didn't realize she had said it. I was stunned. She's always been the MOST faithfilled member of our family. I then asked her if she believed in God, if she had faith in Him. She looked terrified and said "of course; I didn't mean me Mom, I promise". I looked her dead in the eye and told her that I didn't believe her, then I told her that she ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT in trouble if she felt she didn't believe in God right, or if her faith was faltering right now. Then she just blew it down. She said things like "there is no PROOF Mom... how can people just believe in something because other people tell them to... how do you know that the Bible is really what they say"....

 

I told her to ask Dad. :tongue_smilie:

Not my finest moment. In my defense, my husband is also a brilliant (well, I might be biased :D) scientific mind AND a very devout cradle Catholic.

The problem I already see blooming? My husband will not, in any way, talk down to children. Sounds great in theory, but Autumn is touchy about this. In general, if a child makes an offhand comment about their ball not bouncing, my husband will launch into an hour long explanation of WHY the ball isn't bouncing. Eyes glaze over. Again, he's incredibly intelligent and has no understanding that others may not be up to par in certain areas. Autumn is intelligent - but she's 10.

 

Any good book suggestions for her? Anything you can give me?

 

While I appreciate all responses, please refrain if you are going to tell me to let her decide for herself. Just as I insist she eat healthy, and she doesn't yet get to decide to eat Oreos for dinner, she will not be allowed to simply opt out of all faith based/centered activities. I will not, however, force BELIEF on her, I will not shove this down her throat and make her scared; and I do not want to hear anyone tell me that I should tell her non-believers go to hell, as we do not believe that.

Talking to our priest is out of the question. Our priest just got promoted to Charleston (I think) and was replaced. We don't know the new priest well enough for Autumn to feel comfortable talking to about this.

[AdamsFamily]

Answers in Genesis books for Kids might give her some of the "proof" for which she is asking. They are by Ken Ham, who caused a lot of raucous at the Greenville HS Convention last year. I don't necessarily agree with his brazen outspokenness, but I do like that particular set of books.

[AimeeM]

Protestant leaning? I need something Catholic friendly and franklhy, the Greenville HS convention doesn't run Catholic - if you know what I mean :glare:

Answers in Genesis books for Kids might give her some of the "proof" for which she is asking. They are by Ken Ham, who caused a lot of raucous at the Greenville HS Convention last year. I don't necessarily agree with his brazen outspokenness, but I do like that particular set of books.

[JenniferB]

Wow. Hugs. I'll write more if I have anything to contribute.

[Caitilin]

Maybe a biography of a saint with whom she identifies/ed? Or maybe one of those Amy Welborn books of apologetics written for teens?

(I hope I have the right name there, but the one I am thinking of is definitely a Catholic author.)

[justamouse]

Answers in Genesis books for Kids might give her some of the "proof" for which she is asking. They are by Ken Ham, who caused a lot of raucous at the Greenville HS Convention last year. I don't necessarily agree with his brazen outspokenness, but I do like that particular set of books.

 

Well, I wouldn't quite offer that book, or any of his books. Not to mention, the op may believe in theistic evolution and those books would only make the child more confused.

 

Op, she's your husband's daughter. I bet she's no slouch. ;)

 

Perhaps you can pt on a pot of tea and you, she and Dad sit around the table and have a talk? You can be there to interpret, if needed?

 

I don't know, I'm from an around the table family. We're around the table all the time, so that's a natural place for me to set out some food and have a discussion, but if you talk while hiking, while in the car, where ever it is your family gets into discussions, open it up there.

 

Personally, I think the fact that she's asking those questions shows she's pretty mature. Thinking people will ask them, and they need to be answered-not with just your beliefs, but why you believe what you do, and how perhaps you've worked through those questions yourself.

[Lawana]

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Edited December 1, 2011 by Lawana
Invisible, as usual. Don't mind me.

[justamouse]

Maybe a biography of a saint with whom she identifies/ed? Or maybe one of those Amy Welborn books of apologetics written for teens?

(I hope I have the right name there, but the one I am thinking of is definitely a Catholic author.)

 

Yes, that's the author (and yes, she's Catholic). Her book Prove It! God, may be good for this.

[justasque]

Personally, I think the fact that she's asking those questions shows she's pretty mature. Thinking people will ask them, and they need to be answered-not with just your beliefs, but why you believe what you do, and how perhaps you've worked through those questions yourself.

 

:iagree: It's not something that's going to be one conversation and done. It's an ongoing discussion. Why do you believe? Why does your dh believe? Why does Aunt Bee who is visiting today and eating dinner with us believe? What do other friends believe? Why? And so on...

[Mergath]

I'm glad you aren't planning on forcing her to believe. Because, well, you can't. You can force someone to pretend they believe something, but that's it. You can't even force yourself to believe in something. Belief is totally independent of anyone's will.

 

With that said, I think forcing her to go to church would be a mistake, if you're hoping she'll embrace your beliefs again someday. When I started to question Christianity, nothing cemented my non-belief like having to go to church. You hear only the ridiculous at that stage and use it to reinforce your doubts.

 

If you're absolutely adamant that she attend some sort of religious gathering, you could let her choose her own church for awhile.

[elfgivas]

:grouphug:

 

sometimes good questions are the most important thing.

 

and it may well be that she's wrestling with whether she has to believe in the bob jones' view of god or none at all.... or if the god of Pope John XXIII or Pope Paul VI is okay....

 

and there are deeply spiritual atheists.......

 

maybe an advent bible study that would provide opportunity for lots of good questions might open the conversation? questions like "does it really matter whether mary was a virgin?" "was the stable a cave or ??" "maybe the innkeeper did the best he could. i mean, should he have wakened other sleeping guests up and kicked them out or ???"

 

"wishful thinking" by walter wink got us all thinking.... a lot.....

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

ann

 

"and a little child shall lead them...."

[ktgrok]

Get C.S. Lewis's book Mere Christianity. Read through the first part of it with her, a chapter a night. My son, who is very analytical and NOT a real believer was VERY effected by the arguments put forth. It very very clearly explains the reasons to believe in a philosophical/logical way. It starts off with the idea that we all have this idea of "fairness", but where did we get that idea from? We must have gotten it from somewhere, right? Then goes on from there, step by step, without jumping ahead. It is also very easy to read.

[ElizaG]

Matthew Pinto also has a Q&A series aimed at teens. The first book, Did Adam and Eve Have Belly Buttons?, addresses the OP's daughter's questions (among many others).

 

I haven't read the book myself, so I'm not sure if all of the content would be appropriate for a younger child. If it's a bit on the mature side, it might still be helpful for the parents to read and get some ideas about how to explain things.

[AimeeM]

I'm sorry. That isn't an option.

She has to lay in bed at a certain time; though I'm well aware, and tell her as much, that I can't (and would never want to) force her to sleep.

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but I did caveat that I didn't want to be told to just let it be and let her alone on this one.

 

 

I'm glad you aren't planning on forcing her to believe. Because, well, you can't. You can force someone to pretend they believe something, but that's it. You can't even force yourself to believe in something. Belief is totally independent of anyone's will.

 

With that said, I think forcing her to go to church would be a mistake, if you're hoping she'll embrace your beliefs again someday. When I started to question Christianity, nothing cemented my non-belief like having to go to church. You hear only the ridiculous at that stage and use it to reinforce your doubts.

 

If you're absolutely adamant that she attend some sort of religious gathering, you could let her choose her own church for awhile.

[AimeeM]

We are Theistic Evoluntionists :)

 

Frankly, I'm a lit loving kind of gal. I took basic science 2 times (remedial) in college. It isn't my thing and I can't translate for my husband. We compliment eachother - but have very, very different strengths. Lol!

Well, I wouldn't quite offer that book, or any of his books. Not to mention, the op may believe in theistic evolution and those books would only make the child more confused.

 

Op, she's your husband's daughter. I bet she's no slouch. ;)

 

Perhaps you can pt on a pot of tea and you, she and Dad sit around the table and have a talk? You can be there to interpret, if needed?

 

I don't know, I'm from an around the table family. We're around the table all the time, so that's a natural place for me to set out some food and have a discussion, but if you talk while hiking, while in the car, where ever it is your family gets into discussions, open it up there.

 

Personally, I think the fact that she's asking those questions shows she's pretty mature. Thinking people will ask them, and they need to be answered-not with just your beliefs, but why you believe what you do, and how perhaps you've worked through those questions yourself.

[KJB]

First, sounds like she's entering the logic stage. Hang on for the ride! My kids and I love discussing philosophy and this is certainly an age old question to be considered. These types of questions from your kids are a great way to examine why you believe what you believe.

 

I really enjoyed studying Rene Descartes' proofs of God. One of my favorite of his proofs is the idea of humans cross culturally having a fairly consistent universal idea of beauty. The argument is that we have an innate idea and concept of beauty because we all know perfect beauty in God.

 

Another proof is that there are really no mythical creatures. All mythical beasts are really constructions of already existing creatures (a unicorn is a horse and a goat for example). The idea here is that we couldn't have made up a God as is evidenced by the fact that we can't make up anything truly unique that isn't just a combination of already existing creatures.

 

There are more, and they are persuasive, in my opinion. This is just a tiny sample of a number of well reasoned defenses. Of course, they can all be answered and debated (and I won't be defending the proofs here as I had that fun many years ago in college and I'm over needing the experience!)

 

Also, Saint Thomas Aquinas has a well reasoned argument. His arguments are motion, causation, contingency, goodness, and design. His idea goes something like "something is moving, everything moving was set on its path by a cause, the cause of motion had to start somewhere/can't be infinite, therefore there must be "first mover" or a God who started the motion". As a Catholic, you will really appreciate his perspective and rationale. He is one of my favorite saints and spending a little time reading about him and his arguments is a great way to learn more about your faith.

 

I also have told my kids that many/most great scientists and great thinkers throughout time have reached the conclusion that God exists. Some of them do not reach the conclusion that God is concerned as much with human affairs as many religions espouse, but most agree that there is a cause or creator of the harmony in the universe.

[Mergath]

I'm sorry. That isn't an option.

She has to lay in bed at a certain time; though I'm well aware, and tell her as much, that I can't (and would never want to) force her to sleep.

 

I appreciate the sentiment, but I did caveat that I didn't want to be told to just let it be and let her alone on this one.

 

First of all, as you'll probably learn, telling people on a message board not to bother posting if they disagree with you doesn't really work. ;)

 

Second, I didn't say you should leave it alone. I said I wouldn't force her to go to church. That doesn't mean you shouldn't talk to her, answer her questions, put her in contact with other people who can answer her questions, and give her materials to read.

[mom4him]

Today, in the car, we passed Bob Jones University putting up their huge nativity scene. Autumn, very passingly, comments "I don't know why they believe in that stuff" (or Him, something like that). I, in turn, asked "you don't know why who believes in what sweetie?". She then says "why people believe in God; it doesn't make sense". She didn't realize she had said it. I was stunned. She's always been the MOST faithfilled member of our family. I then asked her if she believed in God, if she had faith in Him. She looked terrified and said "of course; I didn't mean me Mom, I promise". I looked her dead in the eye and told her that I didn't believe her, then I told her that she ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT in trouble if she felt she didn't believe in God right, or if her faith was faltering right now. Then she just blew it down. She said things like "there is no PROOF Mom... how can people just believe in something because other people tell them to... how do you know that the Bible is really what they say"....

 

I told her to ask Dad. :tongue_smilie:

Not my finest moment. In my defense, my husband is also a brilliant (well, I might be biased :D) scientific mind AND a very devout cradle Catholic.

The problem I already see blooming? My husband will not, in any way, talk down to children. Sounds great in theory, but Autumn is touchy about this. In general, if a child makes an offhand comment about their ball not bouncing, my husband will launch into an hour long explanation of WHY the ball isn't bouncing. Eyes glaze over. Again, he's incredibly intelligent and has no understanding that others may not be up to par in certain areas. Autumn is intelligent - but she's 10.

 

Any good book suggestions for her? Anything you can give me?

 

While I appreciate all responses, please refrain if you are going to tell me to let her decide for herself. Just as I insist she eat healthy, and she doesn't yet get to decide to eat Oreos for dinner, she will not be allowed to simply opt out of all faith based/centered activities. I will not, however, force BELIEF on her, I will not shove this down her throat and make her scared; and I do not want to hear anyone tell me that I should tell her non-believers go to hell, as we do not believe that.

Talking to our priest is out of the question. Our priest just got promoted to Charleston (I think) and was replaced. We don't know the new priest well enough for Autumn to feel comfortable talking to about this.

 

One of the things I would ask her is how/why she believe this and if she has talked to others that believe like wise. Many times kids are 'fitting in' with their piers.

 

I definitely would not allow her to quit participating but I would also ask her if you could pray with her every evening about life. I do this with my kids and have seen some real changes in their attitudes about different things.

 

Do you read the Bible with her? This is another thing that I have been doing faithfully now the last couple of years and I have seen a change come with it.

 

I am a believer of leading a child not shoving them.

[AimeeM]

Other than having to drive past them, we steer as far from Bob Jones as humanly possible, given their view of our faith.

 

We are, however, currently having trouble with born again Grandma talking badly about The Church (no offense to the tolerant Born Again Christians, of which I know several). Something my husband only JUST pointed out to me. That may have something to do with this.

:grouphug:

 

sometimes good questions are the most important thing.

 

and it may well be that she's wrestling with whether she has to believe in the bob jones' view of god or none at all.... or if the god of Pope John XXIII or Pope Paul VI is okay....

 

and there are deeply spiritual atheists.......

 

maybe an advent bible study that would provide opportunity for lots of good questions might open the conversation? questions like "does it really matter whether mary was a virgin?" "was the stable a cave or ??" "maybe the innkeeper did the best he could. i mean, should he have wakened other sleeping guests up and kicked them out or ???"

 

"wishful thinking" by walter wink got us all thinking.... a lot.....

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

ann

 

"and a little child shall lead them...."

[AimeeM]

Really, her only friend outside of catholic co-op is her neighbor - a very religious Episcopal. Autumn goes to church with her, and the neighbor girl can go with us to Mass. Other than Grandma, there is nobody in her life currently...

 

We do sometimes read the Bible with her. We aren't completely Bible centered though. We prefer to read Catholic Tales and American Cardinal Reader for solid and wholesome stories. She is very... literal. If she can't relate to it, she zones out.

One of the things I would ask her is how/why she believe this and if she has talked to others that believe like wise. Many times kids are 'fitting in' with their piers.

 

I definitely would not allow her to quit participating but I would also ask her if you could pray with her every evening about life. I do this with my kids and have seen some real changes in their attitudes about different things.

 

Do you read the Bible with her? This is another thing that I have been doing faithfully now the last couple of years and I have seen a change come with it.

 

I am a believer of leading a child not shoving them.

[MamaJo]

What I have always done in this case is pray with them and ask God to make Himself real to the child. So far this has worked every time. Don't know the long term results yet as my oldest is only 14 but I am hopeful.

[Aquinas Academy]

:grouphug:

The Amy Welborn's books are wonderful, and Catholic! Some of C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity might also be appropriate. But more important than reading a book, no matter how good, is discussing your beliefs. I've been in a similar position to your daughter, although I was coming from an agnostic/nominally Christian family. I found myself believing in God, but kept thinking "How can smart people believe in Him? Have I lost my mind?" In the end, I found that there are logical, compelling reasons to believe. My kids have asked hard questions too. Answering can be so difficult, but if we want our children to be strong in their faith, we must answer their questions.

I encourage you and your Dh to have some good discussions with your DD. They will be difficult, but I'm sure they will be rewarding for both you and her. :grouphug:

[AimeeM]

Lol - you're right. I'm touchy right now.

I should have said that her not attending church isn't an option. Frankly, even when I went through this phase (though for different reasons and at a later age), I was never forced to believe, but it was known that I had to attend Mass. Period. We just did. It didn't hurt my faith and I came around. I was with other children my age who believed and that helped. My parents never fought with me on it, it was just expected.

I should say that Autumn has not asked to stop attending church. She enjoys attending youth group with her best friend at the episcopal church, and doesn't complain about Mass. That's why today threw me for a loop:tongue_smilie:

First of all, as you'll probably learn, telling people on a message board not to bother posting if they disagree with you doesn't really work. ;)

 

Second, I didn't say you should leave it alone. I said I wouldn't force her to go to church. That doesn't mean you shouldn't talk to her, answer her questions, put her in contact with other people who can answer her questions, and give her materials to read.

[tomandlorih]

Not sure how old your dd is but I was very impressed by the logic in Lee Strobel's "The Case For Christ". http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1322718627&sr=8-3

 

Really helped me.

 

Also I used to listen to a show called Catholic Answers Live on our local Catholic radio station and it was very informative and they didn't shy away from the hard questions.. maybe it's online?

Edited December 1, 2011 by tomandlorih
ETA to add Catholic Answers Live

[Lawana]

We are Theistic Evoluntionists :)

 

Frankly, I'm a lit loving kind of gal. I took basic science 2 times (remedial) in college. It isn't my thing and I can't translate for my husband. We compliment eachother - but have very, very different strengths. Lol!

I'm so glad you are each others biggest supporters. It is great when you can appreciate and verbally compliment your spouse's strengths. Many couples fall into the trap of not complimenting their spouse's accomplishments, but taking them for granted instead.

[Critter]

I'd just like to add to all the other suggestions that I would try not to let it turn into a debate with her. Sometimes kids like to argue just for arguments sake, or because they've found a parent's button to push. I would explain to her why you personally believe, and explain to her that even people like Mother Teresa sometimes had doubts. Advent is the perfect time to keep the conversation productive because our Catholic culture has so many beautiful traditions concerning the incarnation. Sometimes something as simple as lighting an advent wreath and reading a short devotional can do wonders to change the subject into one of belief instead of unbelief. Actions can speak louder than words.

[Kertie]

Get C.S. Lewis's book Mere Christianity. Read through the first part of it with her, a chapter a night. My son, who is very analytical and NOT a real believer was VERY effected by the arguments put forth. It very very clearly explains the reasons to believe in a philosophical/logical way. It starts off with the idea that we all have this idea of "fairness", but where did we get that idea from? We must have gotten it from somewhere, right? Then goes on from there, step by step, without jumping ahead. It is also very easy to read.

 

:iagree: I'm not Catholic, so I'm out of the loop as to who you would find OK or not, but you might google/youtube John Lennox as well and have her listen to some of his stuff.

[Mama2Many4]

If you have the funds, I would really look into Jeff Cavins Great Adventure Bible Study. It would answer many questions for her I think. I'm still working through it myself and learning so much that I didn't know. Also, Catholicism for Dummies is a good book to tinker through. We are Catholic so the outlets I've led you to are Catholic as well. ;)

 

Also, I don't know if you pray the Rosary. But putting on some Gregorian Chanting while praying the Rosary is so peaceful and spiritual all on its own. I would suggest that as well. Good luck! I'm not there yet and I pray I never have to be.

[LG Gone Wild]

What kind of proof is she looking for? If my son told me that there was no proof, that would be my immediate reaction. And then we would just talk about it.

 

Mere Christianity on audiobook is nice.

[chepyl]

I don't know how old your daughter is, but we have been watching True U, it OS geared toward college students, but I think you could go through it together amd discuss it. It has been great. The one we are working through goes through the Bible and looks at historical evidence that supports the validity of the Bible. It has been very informative. It is by Focus on the Family, I believe. I am not 100% sire though. There is a related video series called The Truth Project.

[gardenmom5]

Other than having to drive past them, we steer as far from Bob Jones as humanly possible, given their view of our faith.

 

We are, however, currently having trouble with born again Grandma talking badly about The Church (no offense to the tolerant Born Again Christians, of which I know several). Something my husband only JUST pointed out to me. That may have something to do with this.

 

yeah. If she has been close to grandma, and respects her opinion, it can cause her to struggle as she tries to reconcile the dichotomy. you may or may not get a straight answer if you ask. You might also want to curtail alone time with grandma if she cannot respect your religious choices and how you are rearing your children. (I know that's hard. My paternal grandmother didn't respect my parents religious choices.)

 

struggle in itself isn't bad, as we can be made stronger on the other side.

[MamaSheep]

Today, in the car, we passed Bob Jones University putting up their huge nativity scene. Autumn, very passingly, comments "I don't know why they believe in that stuff" (or Him, something like that). I, in turn, asked "you don't know why who believes in what sweetie?". She then says "why people believe in God; it doesn't make sense". She didn't realize she had said it. I was stunned. She's always been the MOST faithfilled member of our family. I then asked her if she believed in God, if she had faith in Him. She looked terrified and said "of course; I didn't mean me Mom, I promise". I looked her dead in the eye and told her that I didn't believe her, then I told her that she ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT in trouble if she felt she didn't believe in God right, or if her faith was faltering right now. Then she just blew it down. She said things like "there is no PROOF Mom... how can people just believe in something because other people tell them to... how do you know that the Bible is really what they say"....

 

I told her to ask Dad. :tongue_smilie:

Not my finest moment. In my defense, my husband is also a brilliant (well, I might be biased :D) scientific mind AND a very devout cradle Catholic.

The problem I already see blooming? My husband will not, in any way, talk down to children. Sounds great in theory, but Autumn is touchy about this. In general, if a child makes an offhand comment about their ball not bouncing, my husband will launch into an hour long explanation of WHY the ball isn't bouncing. Eyes glaze over. Again, he's incredibly intelligent and has no understanding that others may not be up to par in certain areas. Autumn is intelligent - but she's 10.

 

Any good book suggestions for her? Anything you can give me?

 

While I appreciate all responses, please refrain if you are going to tell me to let her decide for herself. Just as I insist she eat healthy, and she doesn't yet get to decide to eat Oreos for dinner, she will not be allowed to simply opt out of all faith based/centered activities. I will not, however, force BELIEF on her, I will not shove this down her throat and make her scared; and I do not want to hear anyone tell me that I should tell her non-believers go to hell, as we do not believe that.

Talking to our priest is out of the question. Our priest just got promoted to Charleston (I think) and was replaced. We don't know the new priest well enough for Autumn to feel comfortable talking to about this.

 

 

My son has been going through some similar pondering. What I've told him is that I agree with him that people shouldn't believe in God just because other people tell them to. Each person should think for himself and figure out for himself what he will believe, and why. It's great to listen to other people's experiences and beliefs because usually there's something we can learn from them, even if it's clarity about something we very much do NOT believe, but there's no substitute for having one's own spiritual education and experiences. If he wants to know whether the Bible is what they say it is, then he should read it for himself and see what he thinks from his own experience with the Bible. If there are things he doesn't understand he should ask questions, and I'd be happy to tell him what I think the answers are, but he should use other sources too. A good dictionary is helpful. I tell him that if he wants to know if church is worthwhile he should look at what the church does, and how, and think about whether God might have been involved in arranging things the way they are. (I think so.) I also tell him that I don't necessarily know why other people believe, but I can tell him some of the many reasons that I believe. And I do. I tell him about personal experiences I've had where I've received guidance from God for my life, and prayers that were answered, warnings received and either heeded or ignored (I can be stubborn sometimes) and the resulting events. I tell him things that make logical sense to me ONLY if there's a God in the mix. I tell him about times when a passage of scripture or quote from a church leader has made a difference for good in my life. I remind him that science has not DIS-proven the existence of God either. And when we're going about our days and something happens, or we read something, and I see an application or connection to religious belief, I point it out (gently). I think we all have to go through at least one time of major wondering and exploring and solidifying for our own selves what it is that we believe, and why. I think it's normal. I think it's ok. God has given me enough "proof" to believe, and I trust that He will do the same for my son. But yeah...it's a little nervewracking sometimes...:grouphug:

Edited December 1, 2011 by MamaSheep

[ForeverFamily]

OP, I think you have gotten some great suggestions. The things that first popped into my mind when I read your, the OP, question were....

 

1)Read the Bible together as a family everyday (even if only for 5 min a day).

2)Encourage her to read the Bible everyday on her own.

3) Perhaps have a dedicated family night once a week, we do this every monday night, where you talk about some religious principle or value together as a family (for example... charity, modesty, commandments, service, marriage, etc.)

4)Pray together as a family every day

5)Encourage your daughter to pray on her own everyday

 

These may seem like simple things, prayer and study, but when done consistently I think they can make a big impact. I know that these things when done consistently have made a difference in our family, even with our oldest only being 5. Hope that helped. Best Wishes!:D

 

ETA: I wanted to say a little bit more about the family night idea. We usually do anywere from a 5 min to 15 min lesson with the kids. It just depends on their attention span. When you have older kids you can switch off who prepares a short lesson to teach the family, that way the kids can help prepare lessons and teach the family as well. And the other great thing is that you can play a fun family game after or have some type of yummy treat!!! Yum!!!!

Edited December 1, 2011 by ForeverFamily

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I only read through the first page of responses, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything...

 

I would suggest The Handbook of Catholic Apologetics for yourself, so that these questions don't catch you too much off guard. It goes over many theological points, starting with the simple belief in a God, and moves to specifically Catholic beliefs with multiple types of evidence summed up from the great Church philosophers.

 

I also disagree with the idea that a person cannot force themselves to believe. Let me explain: I just converted to the Church about a year ago. I have a VERY hard time with faith. However, after my research on many levels, I feel that there is no greater Truth than that held by the Church. I do have to work on faith, and it takes work, but one of the beautiful things about the Catholic Church is the emphasis on our Will. We were given wills for when emotion is either not present, or when it is present and inappropriate. Our will is stronger than our emotion, and we must let will guide us.

 

I would think of faith and religious belief like a long marriage. There are days or even months when you "fall out of love" with your spouse, days, months and years when you are head-over-heels in love with your spouse, and many phases in between. But what sustains the marriage is willpower and respect.

 

IMHO, I would let her know that it's normal for faith to ebb and flow, and that when it's in ebb, it's a good time to start looking at Catechism and Church philosophy to fill up her intellectual need for understanding and sense. It is one of the most beautiful things about the Church- this allowance for both faith AND reason- in fact, the INSISTENCE for both.

 

Not every faithful Catholic is going to be a mystic- some of us require a lot more in terms of explanation and proof, and find great comfort in seeing the incredible extent and depth of Catholic philosophy.

 

And finally, a good (non Catholic) book you could read together might be Mere Christianity. You could read this alongside Chronicles of Narnia and do a study of CS Lewis. MC is probably a lot for an independent reading for a 10yo, but as a read-aloud and discuss, I think it would work.

 

I don't think you need to shove anything down her throat, but I do think it's important to let her know that there are differences between Martin Luther's "faith alone" protestantism and the depth of Catholic philosophy, theology, and Tradition. Teach her not only that belief is reasonable, but also why Catholic belief specifically is reasonable.

[Crimson Wife]

When I went through a period of doubt/skepticism as a teen & young adult, what finally got me through the intellectual barrier was asking myself whether I actually thought that the universe and everything in came from nothing. That seemed like it took a greater leap of faith than believing in a Creator.

 

Then I asked myself if I believed that Creator was all-powerful and all-good. I concluded the answer was "yes".

 

So finally, I asked myself if an all-powerful God *COULD* do all the things I'd found difficult to believe- Jesus rising from the dead, the bread & wine literally turning into Jesus' Body and Blood, the miracles in the Gospel, the Virgin Birth, and so on. Once I came to the conclusion that God could make those things happen, all of a sudden I found it easy to have faith that He did. After all, since I had accepted that God is all-good, there was no reason to doubt the truth of the Bible.

[Hedgehog]

Not sure how old your dd is but I was very impressed by the logic in Lee Strobel's "The Case For Christ". http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1322718627&sr=8-3

 

:iagree: there's a couple for kids too - "Case for Christ for Kids" and "Case for Faith for Kids". HTH.

[nono]

Lots of great suggestions on the replies here, but I'll reply anyway. :D

 

Considering that all her friends are Catholic or Episcopalian...

 

In general conversation, I'd focus on tradition. And how, if the Trinity was a fad, then it would have died out. Additionally, I'd give her a big hug and tell her that her questioning is a sign of her maturing, because well, it is! Then, I'd off-handedly say something about how easter philosophy talks about yin/yang* in various ways. And for Catholics, that plays out by trying to balance the faith side with the reason side.

 

Then, I'd put some extra effort into Advent. I'd also prepare for a more rigorous religious traditions study starting in January. ;)

 

*I can't believe it, but wikipedia has a good opening three paragraphs on yin/yang which might be helpful for you to read, as you begin to talk about how Catholics are called to balance both. :)

[Faithr]

I'll chime in here! First of all the questioning is a good sign! My mom always said doubt is the flip side of faith. You need to intelligently believe which is what she (your dd) is trying to do. So questioning doesn't always lead to rejection and in fact is a necessary step to believe in a deeper, more meaningful way.

 

If she's looking for proof as in scientific, you might want to turn to Catholic or Christian scientists who are also think theistic evolution is the way to go (that's where we are too). Have you read Creator and Creation by Mary Daly at http://www.hedgeschool.com? Check out her resources. Also, The Language of God by Francis Collins is very good. I just watched a wonderful TED video of a mathematician from Yale who does imaging (MRI, etc) for their medical school. He was so overcome with the absolute majesty of the human body and how incredibly mathematically complex it is, he kept using the word 'divinity' as the only way to describe what could have come up with something so unfathomably amazing. You could maybe find it on youtube. It's got imaging about life from conception to birth. It's fantastic! Very prolife from a purely scientific point of view.

 

Right now I'm reading a wonderful book out loud to my 12 and 10 yos. It is called The Creed in Slow Motion by Msgr Ronald Knox. You can get on Kindle (if you have one!). It is FANTASTIC! He was a chaplain for a girls school back during WWII in England (he also was a brilliant scholar and translated the Bible from Latin into English). This book is a collection of homilies he gave the girls school to explain the Catholic faith. It is PITCH PERFECT! We are so loving this book! It isn't dumbed down at all, he's funny in parts and very thought provoking. It is increasing my faith and providing wonderful opportunities for discussions with my kids.

 

The great thing about being Catholic is that it is premised on the fact that Truth is both natural and supernatural and both reason and faith are needed to live a fully human life.

 

My two cents!

 

P.S. I agree with you about insisting she attend Church. To shut that out would be to shut out exploring that belief. And people attend Church for reasons other than their own personal faith life. I went to Church for a long time whenever I was with my mom even though at the time I was agnostic, just because I knew it was a loving act that would please her. My husband is a non-believing Jew who regularly attends Mass with us on Sundays. He does it out of solidarity with me and his children. I know of one man who was an atheist who attended church with his wife out of respect for her and after a couple of decades (!) finally converted. So even if she is struggling right now, she should attend simply because that's being part of her family.

[Chris in VA]

Do you think she might enjoy the freedom and experience of writing down her questions and going over some answers during her faith formation studies? You could find out what she's really thinking, she could express her doubts/needs for clarification, and you could share what the Church has supplied as answers.

 

I know when we started homeschooling my then-9th grader, I asked him what he did believe about certain doctrines. It was helpful in guiding his studies. He's Aspie, so pretty black-and-white, but I was able to correct or at least provide some orthodox Christian answers, and it went far in helping him stay on track.

 

I will say that one of my kiddos is now an atheist, despite being raised in the Church. If someone had answered his questions and we hadn't just depended on our example and our Sunday School and youth group to cover it, he might still be a Christian and be living a totally different life.

[Parker Martin]

You need Christian apologetics. I would go with resources by William Lane Craig. (http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_william_lane_craig) His focus is on proving the existence of God and Christianity, not denominational specifics.

 

You and your husband might want to get into his book Reasonable Faith. It's a college level apologetics text. And/or you could start going through On Guard with your daughter, mostly the same content at a lower level. Or you could use The Defense Never Rests which is for upper grammar and logic stage children.

 

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=the_defense_never_rests

 

That site also has tons of free podcasts and debates. You might download some of his debates and listen to them in the car.

 

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=debates_main

 

She might feel less like you're trying to indoctrinate her if she can hear both sides, and Craig is a formidable debater.

 

I wish that I had been exposed to the ideas that Craig talks about when I was a teenager. I don't think I would have spent my teenage years as an atheist if I had.

[Murmer]

When I went through a period of doubt/skepticism as a teen & young adult, what finally got me through the intellectual barrier was asking myself whether I actually thought that the universe and everything in came from nothing. That seemed like it took a greater leap of faith than believing in a Creator.

 

Then I asked myself if I believed that Creator was all-powerful and all-good. I concluded the answer was "yes".

 

So finally, I asked myself if an all-powerful God *COULD* do all the things I'd found difficult to believe- Jesus rising from the dead, the bread & wine literally turning into Jesus' Body and Blood, the miracles in the Gospel, the Virgin Birth, and so on. Once I came to the conclusion that God could make those things happen, all of a sudden I found it easy to have faith that He did. After all, since I had accepted that God is all-good, there was no reason to doubt the truth of the Bible.

 

Perhaps an intense nature study with a follow up of the beginning of Genesis. I just think every time I go outside that this world was is not random that it was planned and you can see that in the symmetry and asymmetry of nature. There has to have been a Creator involved and once that is accepted then a study of our Creator.

[Mimm]

I don't have any suggestions but I just wanted to say that I think you are handling it fine and I think it's wonderful that you're willing to discuss this with your child and treat her like an individual intellectual person who deserves to have proof of your beliefs. In the family I grew up in, we were punished for expressing doubt and never offered any supporting arguments.

[justamouse]

Get C.S. Lewis's book Mere Christianity. Read through the first part of it with her, a chapter a night. My son, who is very analytical and NOT a real believer was VERY effected by the arguments put forth. It very very clearly explains the reasons to believe in a philosophical/logical way. It starts off with the idea that we all have this idea of "fairness", but where did we get that idea from? We must have gotten it from somewhere, right? Then goes on from there, step by step, without jumping ahead. It is also very easy to read.

 

:iagree:

 

 

We are, however, currently having trouble with born again Grandma talking badly about The Church (no offense to the tolerant Born Again Christians, of which I know several). Something my husband only JUST pointed out to me. That may have something to do with this.

 

:glare: BUT, if gramma is a believer, she's not questioning the existence of God as a whole, yanno? And the Born Again arguments against the RCC are easy to overcome because they're mostly based in misunderstandings.

 

I only read through the first page of responses, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything...

 

I would suggest The Handbook of Catholic Apologetics for yourself, so that these questions don't catch you too much off guard. It goes over many theological points, starting with the simple belief in a God, and moves to specifically Catholic beliefs with multiple types of evidence summed up from the great Church philosophers.

 

I also disagree with the idea that a person cannot force themselves to believe. Let me explain: I just converted to the Church about a year ago. I have a VERY hard time with faith. However, after my research on many levels, I feel that there is no greater Truth than that held by the Church. I do have to work on faith, and it takes work, but one of the beautiful things about the Catholic Church is the emphasis on our Will. We were given wills for when emotion is either not present, or when it is present and inappropriate. Our will is stronger than our emotion, and we must let will guide us.

 

I would think of faith and religious belief like a long marriage. There are days or even months when you "fall out of love" with your spouse, days, months and years when you are head-over-heels in love with your spouse, and many phases in between. But what sustains the marriage is willpower and respect.

 

IMHO, I would let her know that it's normal for faith to ebb and flow, and that when it's in ebb, it's a good time to start looking at Catechism and Church philosophy to fill up her intellectual need for understanding and sense. It is one of the most beautiful things about the Church- this allowance for both faith AND reason- in fact, the INSISTENCE for both.

 

Not every faithful Catholic is going to be a mystic- some of us require a lot more in terms of explanation and proof, and find great comfort in seeing the incredible extent and depth of Catholic philosophy.

 

And finally, a good (non Catholic) book you could read together might be Mere Christianity. You could read this alongside Chronicles of Narnia and do a study of CS Lewis. MC is probably a lot for an independent reading for a 10yo, but as a read-aloud and discuss, I think it would work.

 

I don't think you need to shove anything down her throat, but I do think it's important to let her know that there are differences between Martin Luther's "faith alone" protestantism and the depth of Catholic philosophy, theology, and Tradition. Teach her not only that belief is reasonable, but also why Catholic belief specifically is reasonable.

 

Yep, I was thinking about combining Chronicles with Mere, too. Something to work Mere off of.

 

What an awesome post. I forget where I was watching it-Catholicisim, perhaps? But they said that Mother Theresa didn't have some rapturous mystic relationship with God, that she struggled with her faith until she passed, and did what she did because she knew it was the right thing to do-not because she was overwhelmed with the emotion to do so. I was very comforted by that.

 

 

Right now I'm reading a wonderful book out loud to my 12 and 10 yos. It is called The Creed in Slow Motion by Msgr Ronald Knox. You can get on Kindle (if you have one!). It is FANTASTIC! He was a chaplain for a girls school back during WWII in England (he also was a brilliant scholar and translated the Bible from Latin into English). This book is a collection of homilies he gave the girls school to explain the Catholic faith. It is PITCH PERFECT! We are so loving this book! It isn't dumbed down at all, he's funny in parts and very thought provoking. It is increasing my faith and providing wonderful opportunities for discussions with my kids.

 

The great thing about being Catholic is that it is premised on the fact that Truth is both natural and supernatural and both reason and faith are needed to live a fully human life.

 

My two cents!

 

P.S. I agree with you about insisting she attend Church. To shut that out would be to shut out exploring that belief. And people attend Church for reasons other than their own personal faith life. I went to Church for a long time whenever I was with my mom even though at the time I was agnostic, just because I knew it was a loving act that would please her. My husband is a non-believing Jew who regularly attends Mass with us on Sundays. He does it out of solidarity with me and his children. I know of one man who was an atheist who attended church with his wife out of respect for her and after a couple of decades (!) finally converted. So even if she is struggling right now, she should attend simply because that's being part of her family.

 

This thread is great for the book recs. :-)

 

We require my oldest to attend out of respect for the family. I don't require her to believe, though (she does, she's just unsure as to how, which is fine with me) BUT, out of respect for her father and I, she's always attended.

 

To the bolded, I wholeheartedly agree. Especially in the way of coming from a POV, where it's sometimes seen as having more 'faith' if you leave all reason behind.

 

Father Barron says, "Catholic tradition says authentic faith never involves a sacrificium intellectus (Latin: sacrifice of the intellect). In fact one of the signs that you're not dealing with authentic faith is that you've had to sacrifice your mind."

Edited December 1, 2011 by justamouse

[Kristine in VA]

I'm Catholic and remember thinking those thoughts when I was younger. A book I still think about that helped me is The Heart of Christianity: Discovering a Life of Faith by Marcus J. Borg. He has lots of other books too.

 

Kristine in VA

[Tess in the Burbs]

Hmm, this is hard but honestly, you tell her your belief and live it out and she will decide on her own. My kids have asked some very poignant questions but I tell them everytime that I believe the Bible is God's word and while I don't understand everything I have seen God in my life working miracles, I have seen God work in others lives, I truly feel His presence at times and there is nothing I can prove to them. It's in their hearts and one day they will have the opportunity to decide. My son and dd both have asked Jesus into their hearts. My ds is baptized and my dd will be in the spring. And neither came to that choice easily. Both had great faith as children but around 6-7 they questioned a lot. I simply said I believe and let them make up their own minds. My dd writes letters to God all the time asking really hard questions. She asked to pray the prayer of salvation this summer, so He must have taken care of her questions!

 

honestly, don't push it. When I was a kid I didn't really believe in Santa anymore. I begged my dad for PROOF. He offered to take me to the North Pole. We planned our trip for months. Very detailed. At one point I commented(age 7 here) that it was a lot of effort to prove something to me. And he said I already knew the answer in my heart but if I needed the extra info he would gladly help me. And then I knew.

 

With my kids I was honest and said I too had doubts in my life at times and it's normal. Our brains want to define things. I love the Hebrews verse about sometimes you have to have faith in something before you can believe in it.

 

Tell your dd what you believe. Live it. And let her decide. But no, as long as she is in your house she should continue going to services with you and just observe. She will figure it out. :grouphug:

[BigMamaBird]

I really liked "A Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel. Our Protestant church library carries it so I don't know how a Catholic family would view it. It comes at Faith from a "Why" perspective which sounds like what your dd is struggling with.

[Impish]

I'm glad you aren't planning on forcing her to believe. Because, well, you can't. You can force someone to pretend they believe something, but that's it. You can't even force yourself to believe in something. Belief is totally independent of anyone's will.

 

With that said, I think forcing her to go to church would be a mistake, if you're hoping she'll embrace your beliefs again someday. When I started to question Christianity, nothing cemented my non-belief like having to go to church. You hear only the ridiculous at that stage and use it to reinforce your doubts.

 

If you're absolutely adamant that she attend some sort of religious gathering, you could let her choose her own church for awhile.

*gently* I find this a really impractical suggestion. Attending church is generally a family activity, so splitting up to attend different churches would be incredibly disruptive, not to mention logistically difficult, if not impossible for many families.

[SailorMom]

I agree with the CS Lewis recommendations. I'm not Christian, but some of his writings have really influenced my belief system. I particulary love The Great Divorce for its attenpt to explain his ideas of an afterlife in a concrete way.

Another way she may want to go is Desiderious Erasmus. He was a hoot! In Praise of Folly is hilarious! He was a Catholic trying to reform the Catholic church from the inside in order to stop the schism that occurred during the Reformation.

Lastly, and I know this is odd, but Plato. Not all of it, but sometimes his logical deductions that there must be a single, perfect God really speak to the rest of us monotheists in a way modern writing does not. Many Christians say he was writing about the Christian God in a time before Christ. I don't have that opinion, but I can see why they say that. Timeaus is a great place to start.

[zaichiki]

You might also want to curtail alone time with grandma if she cannot respect your religious choices and how you are rearing your children.

 

Things like this can come up even if Grandma is *not* disrespecting your approach to raising your kids.

 

My dh and my dad are atheist. My s-i-l is Hindu. My m-i-l is Jewish and her brother is Russian Orthodox Christian. My kids and I are Catholic. The kids' closest friends are Christian: Catholic and Protestant. We've had apologetics discussions since the kids were young. We have to be honest and direct about our beliefs while being careful not to depreciate other faiths at all. It's not easy.

 

I'm about to get Amy Wellborn's series. I think it's also time for my oldest and me to sit down and have some deep, respectful discussions. (I've noticed that he's no longer praying aloud in Mass, so I wonder what is going on in his mind.)

[justamouse]

If the OP's child is familiar with Mother Theresa it might help the child to feel more connected to her faith if she read a little about Mother Theresa's great work done while she was unable to feel the presence of God.

 

That was it, I couldn't remember the exact phrasing.