Sheesh, I think I'm done with church

[shinyhappypeople]

The girls and I have been going to this place for the past year and a half.

 

I admit that this is a little thing. Just a teeny-tiny thing.

 

I'm probably over-reacting.

 

I know that the service isn't all about me, nor do I expect them to consider my feelings when doing new "funny" things.

 

But.... ugh.

 

Here's what went down.

 

Everyone was already standing up and the pastor asks, "How much do you love God? Do you love him this much?" (spreads arms out wide. The entire congregation - except me and a few other rebels - does the same). "You can't love God without loving others so keep your arms open and hug the people around you!"

 

And thus the hugging party began. For the record, no one hugged me because my arms weren't opened and I probably looked as horrified as I felt. But still... blech. This is a thousand times worse than the annoying "shake hands with the person next to you and say hello," that most churches do.

 

This - even though my brain acknowledges that it was not about me, not directed toward me - this felt like a slap in the face. I've posted some stuff in the past about former pastors taking certain liberties with me, not honoring boundaries, etc. that I'm not gonna rehash here. Well, Capt. Huggyface up on the platform knows all about what happened to me. He saw me there this morning. So, to have the threat of this over the top, physical demonstration kind of thrust upon me felt hurtful.

 

I know it wasn't about me or directed toward me. The service doesn't - and shouldn't - have to revolve around me or what makes me comfortable. I need to not take things so personally. I need to lighten up. I get that. Please don't stomp on my feelings for sharing this. I'm just mad.

 

And I don't know how to ever go back. It's been *so hard* to keep going this past year and a half. I've come a long way in terms of church anxiety (it went from being almost debilitating to very low, very manageable levels). I've made huge, awesome strides. But today kicked me in the butt. I just feel... done.

 

Thanks for listening. Please be gentle with me. I'm having kind of a bad day.

Edited November 14, 2011 by shinyhappypeople

[ProudGrandma]

I would have been horrified too!! I have no desire to hug anybody becasue someone says I am suppose to. NO THANK YOU!! I am with you. I wouldn't go back...to me that is not church. But that is a whole other topic for a completely different time.

[Cindyg]

My husband would never have entered that building again. Never.

 

This is a thousand times worse than the annoying "shake hands with the person next to you and say hello," that most churches do.

 

I, too, hate the hand shaking ceremony.

[JVA]

I'd look for another church, if that happened to me. It's contrived and uncomfortable. Would this help you?

 

http://www.9marks.org/

 

They give scriptural, practical criteria for a healthy church and you can do a search of some that may be in your area. I was happy to see our church on the list.

[Myeightkiddies]

I personally would not be comfortable in that situation. If "those around me" were men, not in my family, I would not want to participate. Plus, hugging is somewhat intimate and should be completely a situational activity.

[Once Again]

It could have been worse. Mennonite churches practice the holy kiss.

[chiguirre]

Given your level of anxiety, could you check out a liturgical denomination? You'd probably still have to shake hands, but you'd know when it's coming and you'd never have something sprung on you out of the blue.

[catz]

I actually like the greeting your neighbor and shaking their hand ritual. But to HUG someone you don't know during cold and flu season (or not)!? No thank you. I don't blame you.

[Myeightkiddies]

 

I, too, hate the hand shaking ceremony.

 

My inner-germaphobe :ack2: does not care for this either; however, I'd rather do the hand-shaking "ceremony" than a hugfest. :leaving:

[southernm]

I cannot stand to have anyone other than my DH and children touch me. The hand shaking thing makes me so uncomfortable. In the past when we actually attended Church, I would turn to DH as if we were in a big conversation and avoid eye contact. Hugging is such a violation of my personal space. I probably wouldn't go back either.

Edited November 14, 2011 by southernm

[Desert Rat]

I have personal space issues. Hugging like that would send me over the top, too. You are certainly not alone in that respect, OP. How about a small home church? I'm not a church goer but I would think that having worship in a smaller setting might be more comfortable for you. Or, you can find a good Bible study and forego traditional church services while still learning and growing.

I'm sorry that happened to you today. I can only imagine how uncomfortable you must have been.

[Ipsey]

It could have been worse. Mennonite churches practice the holy kiss.

 

Only if you're a member.

No one would expect you to kiss if you weren't.

[mafi39]

Well, I'm from tennessee and I love our little country church. We hug, shake hands, pray together, cry together, serve the Lord together. Jesus loved fellowship with his disciples, little children, people he ministered to. I personally would hate to be in a church where you don't even shake hands. That is very strange to me, but I have always been in the type church that I am at now. I'm sure that it would be uncomfortable if you aren't used to it.

 

Try to remember why you are going to church. To serve God! People are just people and there is no perfect human (only Jesus). We mess up, we say and do the wrong things, but if you keep your eyes on Him, you'll never go wrong:)

[Jennifer3141]

Only if you're a member.

No one would expect you to kiss if you weren't.

 

Ok, now I HAVE to ask...

 

And OP, I understand how you feel but I want to encourage you to keep going, even if you were pushed out of your boundaries quite a bit today. If these are good people, it's worth it to keep trying. And consider the source on this one...

 

Back in the ole days when I was Catholic, I didn't like the hand thing until I went to a smaller church where the little old ladies wouldn't let go until you met their eyes and felt their love. Ticked me right off at first, until I felt the love. There's nothing quite like the love of the wise women. :)

Edited November 14, 2011 by Jennifer3141

[simka2]

No one is gonna force me, or shame me, or guilt trip me into letting anyone into my personal space! What a violation!!! :glare:

 

We go to a church that once a year has "forgiveness vespers" that involve kissing everyone on the cheeks...very ethnic. Anyway, that I was prepared for and knew the theology behind.

 

What you described would have made me feel very violated!

Edited November 14, 2011 by simka2

[shinyhappypeople]

mafi,

 

I would never expect someone to not have the option of hug/shake hands/whatever if that felt comfortable to them. I just don't like feeling like it's being forced on me. I have a history of pastors not respecting physical boundaries and it's just a touchy issue with me (ha- a pun!)

[Little Nyssa]

"I'm done with church"

 

is not the same thing as:

 

"I'm done with THIS church."

Edited November 14, 2011 by Little Nyssa

[Scarlett]

Ok, now I HAVE to ask...

 

And OP, I understand how you feel but I want to encourage you to keep going, even if you were pushed out of your boundaries quite a bit today. If these are good people, it's worth it to keep trying. And consider the source on this one...

 

Back in the ole days when I was Catholic, I didn't like the hand thing until I wwnt to a smaller church where the little old ladies wouldn't let go until you met their eyes and felt their love. Ticked me right off at first, until I felt the love. There's nothing quite like the love of the wise women. :)

 

I find the whole thing a little weird...but hey what do I know.

 

I'm fairly affectionate....but I don't want to hug the person sitting next to me if I don't know them well or like them much!

[elegantlion]

I'm a huggy person. I will hug people if they let me. However, I think there are times and places for that, and I don't think ANYONE should be forced into a giant group hug. If hugs happen in a church it should be a natural outflow of the choice of the people attending. I would never presume to think everyone is comfortable with hugging or shaking hands. Especially in cold/flu season. I have a compromised immune system and avoiding going down aisles in a store where I hear someone sneeze or cough.

 

If you pastor is aware of your previous boundary issues, I would let him know you were uncomfortable with the mass PDA.

 

And what about the people who haven't shared any issues?

 

I think even pastors can get caught up in the moment and want everyone to feel loved and welcomed to a service, this was just a bad way to try to recreate that environment.

[Jennifer3141]

I find the whole thing a little weird...but hey what do I know.

 

I'm fairly affectionate....but I don't want to hug the person sitting next to me if I don't know them well or like them much!

 

I'm going to hug you!!! Na na na na na! :lol:

[Scarlett]

mafi,

 

I would never expect someone to not have the option of hug/shake hands/whatever if that felt comfortable to them. I just don't like feeling like it's being forced on me. I have a history of pastors not respecting physical boundaries and it's just a touchy issue with me (ha- a pun!)

 

So why do you think pastors do that to you? Maybe you are super hot and they just want an excuse to hug you? :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't like the forced hug either. I don't do it. If I don't want to hug someone I stiffen my spine and dip my cheek in slightly for a nanosecond and then pull away and start chatting with someone else. A man would never do that anyway though...so yeah, that's weird in my world.

[Cindyg]

...I didn't like the hand thing until I went to a smaller church where the little old ladies wouldn't let go until you met their eyes and felt their love. Ticked me right off at first, until I felt the love. There's nothing quite like the love of the wise women. :)

 

Well, I'm from tennessee and I love our little country church. We hug, shake hands, pray together, cry together, serve the Lord together.

 

Both of those incidences are very different than "Turn to your neighbor and shake hands/hug [the random stranger standing there]." I would love the close, loving environment you two describe.

[Scarlett]

I'm going to hug you!!! Na na na na na! :lol:

 

But I like you. Most of the time.

[Margo out of lurking]

My husband would never have entered that building again. Never.

 

 

Mine either.

 

Hugging people around you has nothing whatsoever to do with how much you may or may not love God.

 

Ugh.

[arghmatey]

Ew.

 

I can love others without touching them!

[PinkInTheBlue]

My husband would never have entered that building again. Never.

 

 

 

I, too, hate the hand shaking ceremony.

 

Oh my goodness, my husband would have freaked out! LOL I wouldn't have been crazy about it at all but would have cringed through it. My husband would have walked out. :) I get it, I do. I also don't love the hands shaking part. Not once I began watching what people unknowingly do with their hands. ;) LOL

[Jennifer3141]

If you pastor is aware of your previous boundary issues, I would let him know you were uncomfortable with the mass PDA.

 

And what about the people who haven't shared any issues?

 

I think even pastors can get caught up in the moment and want everyone to feel loved and welcomed to a service, this was just a bad way to try to recreate that environment.

 

This is one of those times when depending upon the size of the church, I might speak with the pastor. (My parents belong to this "mega-church" kind of place. They have about 5 different pastors - I wouldn't try this there...)

 

But if I knew the pastor well and felt like this about hugging (and knowing full well that others around me probably feel/felt the same way!) I'd drop an email to the apstor and tell him how uncomfortable I was.

 

It's possible he felt called to make everyone come together and maybe he's a huggy type person himself so he doesn't understand the weirdness?

 

I'm a little disappointed he knows about the OP's experiences and didn't qualify the hug-fest by saying something like, "Of course, if hugging makes you feel umcomfortable - please don't do it!" But maybe he forgot? Or maybe he thinks he's helping the OP, "get over her phobia?" I don't know...

 

But unless he's been vile or questionablee before, I'd simply drop a, "Hugging sucks for me! Could you possibly warn those of us who feel this way ahead of time or make sure everyone understands that different people have different boundary issues or whatever?" kind of email or note.

[Jennifer3141]

But I like you. Most of the time.

 

 

Keep it up, Scarlett. I might lick you then. :D

[mafi39]

Shiny,

 

I appreciate your honesty! Hugs aren't for everyone and that's OK :) I hope you give your church a chance if it's where the Lord wants you! Have a blessed week.

[Jennifer3141]

I almost want to find a church now and take my DH. I would really, really like see Mr. Uptight "People are Mostly Virulent, Especially in the Winter" faced with a room full of hugging people who believe in a god. I could youtube that and make MILLIONS. :D

[Scarlett]

Keep it up, Scarlett. I might lick you then. :D

 

I just shuddered. Seriously.

[Jennifer3141]

I just shuddered. Seriously.

 

Meet me at the next conference! :lol::lol:

[Alenee]

Keep it up, Scarlett. I might lick you then. :D

 

Jennifer, have I mentioned to you lately (ever) that you're one of my favorite people? :grouphug: :drool: :tongue_smilie: :lol: ;)

[Alenee]

OP, I don't think there's anything wrong with you feeling this way. I hope you find a place where you feel safe and can grow in the Lord. I guess the group hug smiley just isn't appropriate here though, is it? ;)

[Scarlett]

Meet me at the next conference! :lol::lol:

 

:smilielol5:

[Denisemomof4]

Keep it up, Scarlett. I might lick you then. :D

 

:scared:;)

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[Heidi]

Is it weird that I didn't even know churches did the hugs and handshakes? Being asked to hug a complete stranger isn't going to induce me to get to know them or love them more. It would actually do the opposite. I would not imagine this practice is not really helpful to many people... so why do they do it?

to inspire friendships and commadery at my church, they put you to work! First, every member has a job to do... teaching Sunday school, nursey leader, announcement maker, ect. And every member is assigned people to visit, serve, teach, and look after. For instance, I have a female compaion that I have been assigned, and we have three ladies that we are assigned to visit once a month. We go to her house, chat, teach a message, see if she needs any help, and always make sure she is doing ok and that her needs are met. It is awkward at first, but some strong relationships have come of it with ladies I never would have socialized with otherwise. The point being that love comes through diligent service.

[Jennifer3141]

Jennifer, have I mentioned to you lately (ever) that you're one of my favorite people? :grouphug: :drool: :tongue_smilie: :lol: ;)

 

 

Well, good grief. I'd at least hug you then too!! And thank you!

[Denisemomof4]

I looked for your thread (was there one?) about your boundary issues in the church and couldn't find it. There are several threads, though, where you discuss your discontent in the church.

 

I went to church for well over a decade. Towards the end I kept asking myself why I was at the church. I thought long and hard on it and was happy and relieved to leave it behind. We started a WONDERFUL home church that I *loved* but people started to invite strangers into my home and we needed to bring it to an end. :sad:

 

I don't miss the church At All, but I do miss having a church family. I hope a home church will be in our future again at some point. Maybe this could be a consideration for you?

 

I also hate the hand shake/hugs, and I'm a hugging type of person! On MY terms, not when I am told to do so. I hate that.

[imagine.more]

Totally wouldn't bother me. The early church always did a holy kiss during worship, it's been going on for ages. A handshake is for business agreements, a hug or a kiss is for reconciliation and showing love. I'll confess I am a very not-touchy-feely person, I have a tough personal bubble such that friends even tease me about, but even I kiss my family at the sign of the peace and shake hands or hug others around. My ODS loves to run around shaking everyone's hands or hugging them, he's downright silly about it :) I believe the intent is to reconcile yourself to your neighbor before partaking of communion so I really don't see a problem with it.

[Lawana]

Perhaps the last person the pastor counseled was particularly lonely, and desperate for human contact. I would absolutely not take it personally. A pastor must take into account the whole flock. Leaving the 99 and all that. While we all wish to be the "one", sometimes we are counted amongst those that are strong enough to be left to our own devices while the shepherd reaches out to the lost.

 

Most certainly, I am *not* denigrating your needs and prior experiences. You must do what you must do. Reach out to Him who can know everyone for who she is.

[aggieamy]

Oh geez. I would have been seriously uncomfortable. I'm a huggy person but I like to be able to choose my own huggees.

[Starr]

Even if a pastor meant well my dd 17 would hate having everyone attempt to hug her. She endures some of this among friends but really doesn't like it. She wrote a published article, Hugging Jesus, that I will have someone help me send to you or link tomorrow.

[Whereneverever]

Wow, how weird. I'd have been really uncomfortable with that, too.

[HS Mom in NC]

I might have left right at that moment. So many people in that situation are completely clueless as to how they are affecting people different from them.

 

I hate any sort of "prompted" behaviors from the pulpit or anywhere else. I think it reflects badly on the maturity and sincerity of the leader doing the prompting. There's nothing like blind, sheepish, obedience to a token ritual like shaking hands at the designated time (we do that at my church and I think it's completely meaningless) and hugging (or worse, KISSING!) that makes me wonder how shallow this bunch really is.

 

Sorry, huggers and leaders who order them around, but you're not accomplishing what you may be intending to with everyone pressured to endure with a fake smile your well meaning violation of space. I don't take it personally because most people are conditioned to participate without question or are genuinely unaware at how incredibly grating it is to people with different personality types. You don't have to be a victim of abuse or other boundary issues to find the whole thing a joke at best or terribly rude at worst. I never mention it unless someone brings it up (like the OP) but huggers really do need to be made aware that their act of kindness is offensive to others.

 

I think a better approach is to say something like, "Greet those worshipping us today" if they insist on the formula scheduled greeting. People can do what comes naturally, and based on my observations of 38 years of American culture, total strangers do not hug someone they just met. They nod and smile or shake hands. When was the last time anyone hugged a complete stranger they just met when they were not in church service where they were prompted to do it?

[Teachin'Mine]

In the Catholic Church we exchange the sign of peace. Families usually hug and kiss, but with others it's either a handshake or just a nod and exchange of words. Back when the swine flu was a concern, many churches dropped the handshake. Many continue to prefer to not shake hands and just keep them at their side and exchange words such as "Peace be with you". I would not feel comfortable with any forced group hug. :tongue_smilie:

[kalanamak]

If you go to a Keillor-esque Lutheran church, I bet there wouldn't be any hugging. :001_smile:

[Mommy22alyns]

:grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

Sounds like a post-traumatic stress reaction. So sorry about what happened. What might be a minor thing to someone who hasn't experienced a trauma isn't minor when you have experienced trauma and then had something like it happen. Your feelings are reasonable for what you've experienced even though the pastor probably had nothing but good motivations and is also probably clueless about how a minor thing can trigger past stuff. I've had this type of thing happen in a medical setting (where,for me, I was sexually traumatized so now things that wouldn't bother most other women or might cause annoyance can cause retraumatization for me.)

[brett_ashley]

Our old church used to have hand holding at the end of the service while we sang the benediction. I hated it! It felt so contrived and pointless. It annoyed me so badly I started finding excuses to cut out early.

 

My perspective changed drastically when I befriended a widow who was wheelchair bound. I commented that the benediction was not my favorite part of the service, and she gasped, "Oh I LIVE for that! Since my husband died, some weeks that is literally the only time I touch another person all week long, unless I go to the doctor."