Question about "modesty" and ballet

[Homeschooling Again]

I've been watching The Duggars lately (someone on this board mentioned them and so I started watching and got hooked) and was wondering what folks who share their view about "modesty" think about ballet. Ballet is my absolute favorite form of art. I could watch those exquisite bodies moving so sublimely and gracefully all day. But as I was watching a documentary on a Paris company I began wondering what folks who stress modesty think about this dance form (not necessarily just Christians). Obviously the costumes (particularly for the men) leave little to the imagination, but the choreography is oftentimes very sensual. To me ballet is like an exquisite sculpture or rich painting or masterful music, all of which, I think, can be very "immodest" -- sensual, even sexual.

 

I'm not trying to start anything offensive or nasty here, I'm just curious.

[kchara]

I think there is a difference between immodest dressing for the simple purpose of drawing attention to yourself, and the costumes worn in different dance disciplines. I love ballet, and I love Irish dance. I probably wouldn't consider either of those particular costumes "modest" when worn outside of the context of the dance, but in context, without them, it does take away from the dance, and I don't consider the outfits immodest.

[mommaduck]

I think there is a difference between immodest dressing for the simple purpose of drawing attention to yourself, and the costumes worn in different dance disciplines. I love ballet, and I love Irish dance. I probably wouldn't consider either of those particular costumes "modest" when worn outside of the context of the dance, but in context, without them, it does take away from the dance, and I don't consider the outfits immodest.

 

:iagree: But I have known families that are against their daughters and sons participating because of things like the crotch grabs during lifts, etc.

[Veritaserum]

I think there is a difference between immodest dressing for the simple purpose of drawing attention to yourself, and the costumes worn in different dance disciplines. I love ballet, and I love Irish dance. I probably wouldn't consider either of those particular costumes "modest" when worn outside of the context of the dance, but in context, without them, it does take away from the dance, and I don't consider the outfits immodest.

 

:iagree: Context is important. I did ballet when I was younger (stopped as a teen). My mom wanted me to have thick straps or sleeves, if possible, but even my very modesty-conscious mother was ok with form-fitting leotards and tights because that allows you to see the lines and forms properly. :)

 

I don't think the Duggars approve of any kind of dancing. Like, it's not ever ok to move your body to music.

[DianeW88]

My dd is a ballerina (with a professional company) and within the context of ballet, we don't consider the costumes immodest. She doesn't wear dancewear on the street, however.

 

We also have no problems with partnering. It's truly not sexual between the dancers. They're concentrating and working so hard, that's the last thing on their minds. (Not saying that there isn't dating within a company, there is. Just that the act of partnering during a pas de deux is not about sex.)

 

And as students, the boys are just trying not to drop the girls. :lol:

[Dustybug]

I share similar views to the Duggars on modesty and my daughter does ballet. I agree with the pp about the costumes being appropriate for the dance with the exception of midriff/clevage showing costumes or ones that are overtly sexual. In watching my daughter's recital this year, I was concerned with some of the dance moves from the older girls, but the ones I had issue with were from the classes that took lyrical class, not classic ballet. My daughter(when older) will participate in liturgical class most likely.

[Veritaserum]

My dd is a ballerina (with a professional company) and within the context of ballet, we don't consider the costumes immodest. She doesn't wear dancewear on the street, however.

 

We also have no problems with partnering. It's truly not sexual between the dancers. They're concentrating and working so hard, that's the last thing on their minds. (Not saying that there isn't dating within a company, there is. Just that the act of partnering during a pas de deux is not about sex.)

 

And as students, the boys are just trying not to drop the girls. :lol:

 

True. :) When I learned lifts it was a little bit awkward at first, but there's too much else to think about to be worried too much about it.

[Mom-ninja.]

But as I was watching a documentary on a Paris company

 

What documentary? I'd love to see it.

[chanda7]

I'll be in the minority and say I won't let my daughters participate in ballet because of immodesty of the costumes/leotards/etc. If leotards and tights weren't required, I would let them at least take lessons. My views on modesty aren't as conservative as the Duggars, but they are much more conservative than most people I know.

[mommaduck]

I'll be in the minority and say I won't let my daughters participate in ballet because of immodesty of the costumes/leotards/etc. If leotards and tights weren't required, I would let them at least take lessons. My views on modesty aren't as conservative as the Duggars, but they are much more conservative than most people I know.

 

I would think that they would be more immodest without those two things...

[MinivanMom]

I would think that they would be more immodest without those two things...

:lol:

[TXBeth]

I would think that they would be more immodest without those two things...

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[elegantlion]

I think ballet is beautiful, I should be so graceful. If you believe that God created your body, I think ballet can be a wonderful form on honoring what you were given.

 

I am a christian, but don't fall into the modesty camp.

 

 

Just my personal opinion: I think some people do not believe there is a difference between appreciating the body as an art form and seeing everything that is tight or not covered as a sign of sexuality.

[angela in ohio]

I think it depends. Classical Ballet is an art form. Some of the things I see called ballet these days seem obscene.

[Skadi]

I'm pretty sure it's not immodest because if it were, it wouldn't be so difficult for wives to drag their husbands to ballet performances.

[NicAnn]

This recently came up for us. Dd has been taking ballet for a year now and I have no problem with her leotards. We are very modest, but I do believe that art is separate. Our bodies are beautiful and in the right context, there is nothing wrong with "showing them off"...for lack of a better description.

 

The issue that we had, was some of the girls were wearing short, leopard print flouncy tutus and tight shirts with sayings on them. They were worn and made strictly for attention and sex appeal. That I would have a problem with.

[SailorMom]

I'm pretty sure it's not immodest because if it were, it wouldn't be so difficult for wives to drag their husbands to ballet performances.

 

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Slartibartfast]

I'll be in the minority and say I won't let my daughters participate in ballet because of immodesty of the costumes/leotards/etc. If leotards and tights weren't required, I would let them at least take lessons. My views on modesty aren't as conservative as the Duggars, but they are much more conservative than most people I know.

 

The tight clothing is necessary so one can see the lines of the body. If the teacher could not see the lines then the student could end up doing something incorrectly and hurt themselves or someone else.

 

I would not allow my child to attend a ballet class that permitted loose clothing because I would want her to be safe.

[cuckoomamma]

Our girls take ballet, and we did know of one family in the school where the daughter began ballet and the mom quickly pulled her out. She found the stretches where the girls had their legs straight up in the air to be immodest. That particular mom was okay with Irish dancing, though.

[justasque]

The issue that we had, was some of the girls were wearing short, leopard print flouncy tutus and tight shirts with sayings on them. They were worn and made strictly for attention and sex appeal. That I would have a problem with.

 

If that is the case, you are probably not at a school that takes ballet particularly seriously. You may find that studios that are strict about the ballet dress code would be a better fit, both clothes-wise and dance-wise.

 

Most serious schools require black or pink solid color leo, pink tights, and possibly a short, often black, skirt.

[catz]

If that is the case, you are probably not at a school that takes ballet particularly seriously. You may find that studios that are strict about the ballet dress code would be a better fit, both clothes-wise and dance-wise.

 

Most serious schools require black or pink solid color leo, pink tights, and possibly a short, often black, skirt.

 

These are our dance school's exact requirements.

[chepyl]

Like others have said, the leotards and tights are necessary for teachers to ensure that students are executing the dance steps correctly. Without this dress code, students could injure themselves. However, I am a very modest person and living where we do, we tend to have a lot of modest and conservative students. I do allow students to wear dance skirts or dance shorts if it makes them more comfortable.

 

If leotards and tights weren't required, I would let them at least take lessons.

 

What would they wear? Anything else and it really would be quite immodest. Shorts and t-shirts are more likely to be revealing in a ballet class that tights and a leotard. In a kick, everyday clothes would be more likely to reveal underwear. While stretching, a t-shirt will more likely lift up and reveal the stomach. Jeans or other stiff pants are more likely to rip while leaping (I know from experience :scared:!) Some dance costumes are NOT modest, but most everyday dancewear, is actually the best clothing for the activity.

[6packofun]

LOL!!!! True!

 

I hate to say it, but I think the only times ballet is immodest are when 1) the movements are purposely sexual, and 2) if the dancer has big boobs. :001_rolleyes: Most ballerinas do NOT, though, and I think that a certain body type is more accepted and perpetuated...but that's another thread. lol Relating to modesty, I would have to really think about allowing my oldest do do ballet because she is a little larger on top. Do ballet dancers wear constricting sports bras under their leotards?? LOL I dunno.

[YLVD]

I've been watching The Duggars lately (someone on this board mentioned them and so I started watching and got hooked) and was wondering what folks who share their view about "modesty" think about ballet. Ballet is my absolute favorite form of art. I could watch those exquisite bodies moving so sublimely and gracefully all day. But as I was watching a documentary on a Paris company I began wondering what folks who stress modesty think about this dance form (not necessarily just Christians). Obviously the costumes (particularly for the men) leave little to the imagination, but the choreography is oftentimes very sensual. To me ballet is like an exquisite sculpture or rich painting or masterful music, all of which, I think, can be very "immodest" -- sensual, even sexual.

 

I'm not trying to start anything offensive or nasty here, I'm just curious.

 

Ballet is beautiful. I see it much in the same way. I don't see anything wrong with things being sensual or sexual, that's all a part of life. It isn't obscene and it's so lovely.

[Parrothead]

Honestly I think it is one who thinks leotard and tights or costumes for classical ballet are provocative really have too much sex on their minds.

[LibraryLover]

Are you talking about tights and leotards?

[LibraryLover]

Honestly I think it is one who thinks leotard and tights or costumes for classical ballet are provocative really have too much sex on their minds.

 

Thank you. I am floored by people who turn every. single. thing into sex. It's ridiculous. How weak are their men? My god, get your act together already; think of something other than Doing It, for crying out loud.

[Parrothead]

Thank you. I am floored by people who turn every. single. thing into sex. It's ridiculous. How weak are their men? My god, get your act together already; think of something other than Doing It, for crying out loud.

Your welcome. You know, I've known a lot of men in my 45 years. Not in the Biblical sense, just I've worked in traditionally male jobs. None of the men I've known would ever take a look at a child of any age in a leotard and tights and think she is "do-able." I think it is insulting to men in general and to the many wonderful fathers, husbands, brothers and sons I've met in my live.

[Veritaserum]

Your welcome. You know, I've known a lot of men in my 45 years. Not in the Biblical sense, just I've worked in traditionally male jobs. None of the men I've known would ever take a look at a child of any age in a leotard and tights and think she is "do-able." I think it is insulting to men in general and to the many wonderful fathers, husbands, brothers and sons I've met in my live.

 

:iagree:

[Wheres Toto]

My oldest takes ballet at a competition studio. They are required to do 3 classes a week plus dd does pointe. They require black leotards, pink tights and a solid colored skirt or dance shorts (some of the younger girls are more comfortable with shorts on during their period). The larger chested girls (my dd is definitely one of them) wear black sports bras underneath their leotards. As others have said, this is necessary to allow the instructor to see how they are moving and be able to make proper corrections. Loose clothing is never allowed.

 

I don't find ballet costumes immodest. They are designed to show the body but in an artistic way, not sexually.

[angela in ohio]

Most of the people I know who are conservative/modest choose ballet over the other dance classes purposefully in order to avoid problems with modesty.

[justasque]

I'll be in the minority and say I won't let my daughters participate in ballet because of immodesty of the costumes/leotards/etc. If leotards and tights weren't required, I would let them at least take lessons.

 

If you wanted recreational dance, there are schools where you can wear a leo with a t-shirt on top and jazz pants, perhaps with a little skirt attached or over top. The difficulty is that, unless it is an adult class, a school that allows this may not be the best at dance instruction. With ballet specifically, there is a strong history of strict dress codes, for good reason as PP's have mentioned. And, if a school allows looser attire, they are likely to allow other garments that may be considerably less modest.

 

Don't rule out dance, though. There are many schools that offer worship dance, for example, where looser garments for class and performances are more the norm. Styles like jazz and hip-hop have different dress norms, though the dance moves might be an issue. Lyrical and modern are possibilities worth considering. And my favorite, tap dance, is all about the feet! A local school might be willing to work with you, depending on what you'd like your dd to wear.

 

Dance is an excellent lifetime sport, and I've known several women who have danced well into their 70's. It's a good stretch, good for strength, and good for keeping the brain sharp. I hope to continue to dance for many years to come.

[Wheres Toto]

Most of the people I know who are conservative/modest choose ballet over the other dance classes purposefully in order to avoid problems with modesty.

 

In the competition world, if you are worried about modesty (that might actually be an oxymoron but...) tap is probably your best bet. Of dd's tap routines this year she did one dressed as a man in black dress pants, white button front shirt and tie (5 Guys Named Moe); one in jeans, a long sleeve black t-shirt and sparkly vest; one in black yoga pants and matching zip-up jacket (from Target) over a blue sequined camisole top (only showed out the bottom); and one in jeans, a loose floral patterned camisole top and cardigan sweater.

 

Her studio is not bad at all with their costumes but these are by far her most modest.

[mdmurray]

I have raised my daughters with modesty guidelines, no low cut tops, tops and pants meet, no short shorts nor short skirts unless leggings are underneath and no see through. That said, my youngest does ballet and I have to agree with pp on the context being crucial.

 

That said, we live in Las Vegas (the city that knows no modesty) and a friend's young (9 or 10) daughter was appalled at the statue of David in one of the casinos being completely naked. She insisted that they contact the management to request BVD's for David. :001_huh::smilielol5: Mom and Dad had to do a quick "art" lesson.

[mommaduck]

I have raised my daughters with modesty guidelines, no low cut tops, tops and pants meet, no short shorts nor short skirts unless leggings are underneath and no see through. That said, my youngest does ballet and I have to agree with pp on the context being crucial.

 

That said, we live in Las Vegas (the city that knows no modesty) and a friend's young (9 or 10) daughter was appalled at the statue of David in one of the casinos being completely naked. She insisted that they contact the management to request BVD's for David. :001_huh::smilielol5: Mom and Dad had to do a quick "art" lesson.

 

:lol: on one hand and :( on the other. It shows serious issues with this country's teaching of CONTEXT.

[Daisy]

Dance? Gasp. I thought you went to hell for dancing? :lol:

 

Seriously though, dance wasn't allowed when I was growing up so it really isn't part of my culture.

 

I've never even thought about sending my kids to ballet lessons. They've never shown interest and I've never thought about it.

 

I don't think I have a problem with the clothing.

 

We prefer the symphony. :001_smile:

 

I will add though that my husband works at a performing arts magnet school and we have MAJOR problems with the dances that go on there. The kids wear make-up, fish net stockings, and dance down the aisles putting their legs up on the aisle chairs to Moulin Rouge. Totally not age-appropriate performances, imo. We would never have allowed our children to participate.

[1bassoon]

Chiming in with a unique perspective. . . .

 

Our church has a well-known, respected, classical ballet school.

 

On occasion, the dancers *gasp* perform the prelude for the worship service. The costumes are beautiful and very modest, imo.

 

The school does have a pretty strict dress code in terms of ballet leos; all the stores around here are well-versed in what they sell to the girls who attend our classes. My eldest dd just graduated from that school - overall, she's very modest, and she's been fine with the attire.

 

We feel very blessed to be in a unique place, where my girls can pursue ballet and still be worshipful and appropriate. In fact, my eldest is starting college in order to gain a business degree, and open her own, similar studio one day.

[KungFuPanda]

I think you run I to trouble when you demonize certain body parts or costumes. Modesty is not that simple. You can be covered head to toe and still BE immodest. As far as costuming goes, the Hip Hop classes have the most modest costumes. :D

 

I think context is important. A costume can be appropriate on stage but ridiculous at the grocery store. I perform in a troupe and teach Oriental Dance to families. No matter how covered I am, there will always be those who find the costumes indecent because ::gasp:: my stomach is showing. There is nothing inherently evil about the midriff. In the context of this folk dance it is appropriate and draws the eye to the core rather than the limbs so that all of the technical hip articulations can be seen.

 

There is no set of rules you can follow or uniforms you can wear that guarantee modesty. It comes down to behavior and intent.

 

KungFuPanda

[mommaduck]

I would think that they would be more immodest without those two things...

 

I realize it came off as a jab, but it was meant to point towards what others have directly mentioned, "what would you expect them to wear?" given the needs and context.

[EthiopianFood]

I would think that they would be more immodest without those two things...

 

:lol:

[LAmom]

Most of the people I know who are conservative/modest choose ballet over the other dance classes purposefully in order to avoid problems with modesty.

 

:iagree: My daughter just recently had her ballet recital. The ballet parts of the entire show were just beautiful...classic ballet. Some of the little girls doing "other" dance were actually kind of disgusting and sexual with their little moves (and I don't turn everything into sexual....it is just a plain fact). One boy was in one of the classes and he was definitely made the "pimp" of the show. Gross. They were all under 8!

 

I say if ballet is immodest then at least be consistent and have swimming suit be immodest. I hate that inconsistency! If swim suits are appropriate at the beach then leotards/tights are appropriate for ballet. I think a family like the Duggars would wear "other" forms of swim suits or not go to the beach at all. I don't know...just comparing them to some extra conservatives I know (I am conservative in my modesty views but not extra....:D). I do think the context matters. I will not hand my boys a porn magazine but nudity in art books should be dealt with maturely. Have not completely worked that one through but had no problem showing my daughter the David statue at one of our cemeteries here. (maybe I should have....:confused:)

[Murmer]

I went to a college where modesty is stressed (and you sign you will follow the modesty code in the honor code) including sleeves on all tops, no middriff, shorts and skirts to the knee...but the dance department has a ballet program and they allow leo's with 1 inch + straps that go no lower than like 4 inches down the back and no french cut with pink tights so there are ways to be more modest in ballet but teachers have to see the body and leos and tights are the best way to do it.

[songbirdie]

My daughter takes ballet from a local Christian ballet school which was structured specifically for glorifying God and worshipping Him through dance. It is *serious* classical ballet teaching, but all the costumes are completely modest, and the lifts are done in a way that there is not any grabbing of the crotch. They do entire Bible stories in ballet, and other Christian music too. Right now, she is just finishing up a set of Third Day songs, and it is amazingly worshipful, and completely modest in every way. Her teacher and ballet school administrator is very careful about neckline, skirt length, and the types of moves that are done - nothing sexual in any way. It IS possible to take part in ballet as an artform in a way that glorifies God, and doesn't compromise our desire for modesty.

[cathmom]

I'm pretty sure it's not immodest because if it were, it wouldn't be so difficult for wives to drag their husbands to ballet performances.

 

:lol:

[zenjenn]

I haven't read all the replies but I've gotta chime in on this.

 

My experience - for those who care about modesty, it is best to enroll in a ballet academy that is affiliated with a professional ballet company. Here ballet is treated as an art form, and dancers will dress in traditional ballet attire at all ages. Additionally, there are some great performance options for children who want to be involved in a professional production, and ironically the costs are often LESS than private studios, because the company has a costume department rather than requiring purchase.

 

My daughter danced with a ballet company's academy in California when she was in preschool. It was a fabulous experience. When we moved here (to Alabama) I enrolled her in the closest school, which was a private studio. The costumes for the pre-K class were fine, but when we attended a performance, it became rapidly apparent that the costumes were NOT "fine" by my assessment. Kids as young as 7 or 8 dressed as hotchie mammas. Plus, there was a lot of competitive dance and attitude "issues." Recitals involved a $70 costume purchase, among other expenses. :glare:

 

After one season I pulled her out. I had her dance at the Little Gym which was just creative movement and fun, non-competitive no expenses other than tuition. I told her if she was still interested in dancing more seriously after 2 years at Little Gym, we could commit to joining the Academy (which is a bit of a schlep, but at a certain age/serious interest on the part of my daughter, I am willing). So, this year she will be attending 2 technical classes at the Academy and will be in the Nutcracker. They assure roles for all the children as toys - there are 8 performances so every child can participate in 2-3 performances and have a great experience with participating in a performance art without being dressed like a hootchie mamma.

 

The downside: Ballet Academies tend to teach only ballet. Kids who are interested in lyrical, tap, etc will have to go elsewhere. There are studios who have a wholesome philosophy, and IMO it is definitely worth the legwork to find one that is a good match for your values. DON'T just go for the most convenient studio.

[angela in ohio]

My experience - for those who care about modesty, it is best to enroll in a ballet academy that is affiliated with a professional ballet company.

 

I agree. My girls took classes at a ballet studio, not a dance studio, and there were regulations on how low the leotards could be in front and back, what color and kind they could be, etc. It was the black leotard and pink tights.

[Dmmetler]

If you want a combo studio, I'd look for a community school of the arts, for similar reasons-they tend to be more "pre-professional", just also a little more eclectic. A lot of these are affiliated with university programs. My DD dances at one and does tap and Jazz. She started hip-hop this summer while her tap/jazz teacher is on maternity leave, and enjoys it. She'll also start formal ballet technique this fall (they don't let kids start ballet until age 7 or when they'll be turning 7 very soon).

 

Practice attire is solid color leotard/tights (color of leotard depends on level) for all classes but hip-hop, where it's a leotard with shorts/yoga pants over it.

 

At DD's studio, performance costumes can basically be described as "Leotard with trim and skirt". For ballet, it's a fancy leotard with a tutu. For Jazz/tap, it's a fancy leotard with a short, non-full skirt except for the youngest kids who invariably are dressed as some form of animal, with a solid colored leotard or shirt, a little tutu for girls and shorts for a boy, and animal ears/tail, which then leads to a whole bunch of little monkeys, frogs, or teddy bears the following halloween :). Hip hop costumes always look like street wear, but have special pants that are built to move in.

 

I also now know why the ballet and jazz/tap teachers insist on the ballet buns for hair. The Hip Hop teacher just wants hair in a ponytail, and I'm invariably putting DD's hair BACK up when they take their water break halfway through class-because it's fallen down. The bun stays in, no matter what!

 

She takes recreational gymnastics (something her dance teacher suggested as a good thing for ANY dancer to do) as well, and the attire at her level is "something that you can move in easily that doesn't have dangling or loose pieces". So right now, DD's favorite gymnastics practice attire is last year's Jazz/tap costume. Her instructor is fine with it, and DD loves getting to wear it :).