Sex Survey - Why a Problem?

[goldberry]

http://www.5min.com/Video/Middle-School-Surveys-7th-Graders-on-Oral-Sex-517095048?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C70996

 

7th and apparently 8th graders were given a survey about their sexual activity.

 

I guess I am wondering why a survey is a problem? This was not a sex education type thing, it was a survey where the kids answered the questions. Would moms think that the kids had never heard these terms and shouldn't be exposed to them? (They are in public school, so I think they have probably heard the term "oral sex" by 7th or 8th grade.)

 

I can absolutely understand why parents have a problem with sex ed classes, because they are presenting information to kids from a certain point of view that you may or may not agree with. But I don't see asking a survey asking a question to be the same thing. Maybe this is really naive, but I don't know why that would be a problem.

 

Help me out here??

 

ETA, I would see it as a problem in younger grades where you are hoping they might not have been exposed to this yet.

[Perry]

I don't have a problem with the survey, but I do have a problem with giving it without parental consent.

[spaceman]

I had not heard of oral sex at that age, and went to public school. I was not all that sheltered either. And I'm in my 20s, so it wasn't terribly long ago.

 

What were the potential gains from this survey?

[LaxMom]

We had a similar survey in 8th grade so... '85 or '86? Sex, drugs, rock n roll sort of thing.

 

Interestingly, one of th questions - do you ever drink alone - has stuck in my head for the past 25 years. As an adult, I am completely paranoid about pouring myself a glass of wine unless I'm socializing. :001_huh:

[twoxcell]

Not only are the questions wildly inapropriate, it is none of the school business.:eek:

[Sputterduck]

*I* wouldn't answer those questions. Why should my child?

 

I think that is a great point.

 

I would not answer a survey like that, either. Not a chance.

[Susan in TN]

I have a problem with the government seeking information from/about children without their parent's knowledge or consent.

[merry gardens]

*I* wouldn't answer those questions. Why should my child?

:iagree:

 

It's a general invasion of privacy by the government. Publics schools are run by the government and the governement doesn't have the right to know about every detail in the life of children they educate. (edit: perhaps the police might have a right to know if they are investigating a criminal complaint against a child molester.)

 

There was a time when if a stranger asked a young girl questions about her sex life, she'd either slap his face or some other man would step in to defend her honor. Asking someone if they have done something implies the thought that they might.

[Aquinas Academy]

*I* wouldn't answer those questions. Why should my child?

 

Not only are the questions wildly inapropriate, it is none of the school business.:eek:

:iagree:It's an invasion of privacy. I also don't think that all 7th and 8th graders have heard of oral sex.

[Impish]

*I* wouldn't answer those questions. Why should my child?

 

I have a problem with the government seeking information from/about children without their parent's knowledge or consent.

:iagree:Plus, it was done for grant money. What else are they willing to pimp kids out for in search of the almighty dollar?

[bettyandbob]

The story doesn't say, but my experience both as a student and a public school teacher is that these surveys are anonymous. I guess the idea when I took them (late 70s, early 80s) was if it is anonymous kids are more likely to be truthful. It is from these surveys that the gov't gets statistics like "x% of middle school girls over age 14 have had intercourse", "y% of students age 13-15 regularly use alcohol."

 

My local public school has opt out forms. They send them home the first day of school. If you don't send them back, your child participates in everything. I don't know if these surveys are included in the opt out. I know the opt out covers drug and sex education topics and military recruiting (there's more than one opt out to sign).

 

I don't have a problem with it as long as it is anonymous. I've explained everything in detail by middle school age, so any of my kids who attend middle school (only one has) know it all already along with knowing our family's values on the topic. If the survey is not anonymous then the school should not be doing.

 

Side note: I've seen the sex ed materials in my district and if you compare them to what kids encounter on tv and the materials are quite tame. If you don't let your kids watch certain things on tv, but still send them to school they are going to be "exposed" through their classmates. So, it's best to cover all the topics and make sure you get your family's viewpoint stamped before the kids encounter other kids whether through public school or some extracurricular activity.

Edited June 16, 2011 by betty

[Carpe]

We had a sex survey in grade 9 when I was in school. But there were permission slips and it was anonymous. We all filled out our papers and stuffed them into an envelope and they were collected by researchers as part of a study.

 

Most of the questions went something like "Have you heard of X? If yes have you done X? Do you know someone who claims to have done X? How old were you when you first tried X?"

 

None of the terms were explained or qualified in any way, and I thought I'd done well that I knew less than half of them, but as I got older I realized those were just made up terms to confuse the liars.

[goldberry]

Well, we hear all the time x% of kids are doing x,y,z in middle school, so I would guess the information comes from surveys like this. It didn't say so, but I would think the survey would be confidential, so it wouldn't be like they knew what your particular kid was doing.

 

I can see the purpose of it, so that the general public and parents can know what is really happening among their kid's peer group. For example, all the studies that show that more kids are entering sexual relationships in middle school, did prompt me to be more proactive with my DD at an earlier age than I might have otherwise. I would think the information would be helpful to teachers as well.

 

Also for schools that have sex education programs, those programs should have real data for what needs should be addressed. (Whether or not individual kids are allowed to participate is a separate issue. I'm talking about if they are going to have a program, at least it should be based in reality.)

[twoforjoy]

What were the potential gains from this survey?

 

Finding out information about the actual sexual behavior of teens, rather than relying on the kind of sensationalized, anecdotal stuff we usually use when discussing the subject.

 

On the one hand, I can totally understand how a parent would be annoyed that their child was given this survey without permission.

 

On the other hand, if we feel like having information about the sexual behavior of young people is useful--for public health purposes, for educational purposes, etc.--then this is really the only way we're going to get it. My best friend is a psychology professor who does research into women's sexuality. Just getting approval to do surveys and interviews with adult women about sex is extremely difficult. (In order to do human subjects research, you need to get the permission of a review board at whatever institution you are affiliated with.) There was simply no way she could have gotten permission to do research with teens. All of her statistics on teenage sexual behavior came from this kind of large government study. These seem to be the only large-scale, formal studies that can be done on the sexual behavior of young people.

 

So I do see a reason and even need for such research. But I can also see why a parent would be annoyed that their child was given any type of survey that wasn't directly school-related without their permission.

 

ETA: Without even looking at the story, the survey WAS anonymous. There is literally no possible way that it would be okay to do research on the sexual activity of minors and not have it be anonymous.

[wapiti]

Whether or not the information was useful or had a purpose, and no matter how confidential, that doesn't change my position as a parent - I would not want my child subjected to the questions. It's still not the school's business.

[OnTheBrink]

*I* wouldn't answer those questions. Why should my child?

 

Not only are the questions wildly inapropriate, it is none of the school business.:eek:

 

I have a problem with the government seeking information from/about children without their parent's knowledge or consent.

 

Whether or not the information was useful or had a purpose, and no matter how confidential, that doesn't change my position as a parent - I would not want my child subjected to the questions. It's still not the school's business.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[twoforjoy]

Well, we hear all the time x% of kids are doing x,y,z in middle school, so I would guess the information comes from surveys like this. It didn't say so, but I would think the survey would be confidential, so it wouldn't be like they knew what your particular kid was doing.

 

I can see the purpose of it, so that the general public and parents can know what is really happening among their kid's peer group. For example, all the studies that show that more kids are entering sexual relationships in middle school, did prompt me to be more proactive with my DD at an earlier age than I might have otherwise. I would think the information would be helpful to teachers as well.

 

These studies also help to separate reality from hype. If you were to go by what's on the news, in magazines, and on Oprah and Law & Order SVU, you'd think that teenagers are going at it like bunnies, from the time they are about 12. In reality, that's just not true. The rate of sexual activity among teens has not risen in several decades, and has in fact dropped since the early 90s (it rose throughout the 80s and early 90s), as has the number of partners the average teen who is sexually active has had. Oral sex is not nearly as prevalent as the media would lead us to believe. One would get the sense, from the media, that your average 15-year-old is having sex, but in actuality the average age of onset of intercourse is 16.9 for boys and 17.4 for girls (which is pretty much around what it's been for as long as we've been tracking these things). In general, teens are not behaving as promiscuously or recklessly as we're led to believe, and they are actually having less sex and having fewer partners than people their age were twenty and thirty years ago.

 

So that's why we need facts. Otherwise we're left with stories of "rainbow parties" that probably get a lot of attention but don't reflect the reality of most teens.

[RainySunday]

My DH is a public school teacher, and here the survey is given as well. I think it's called the Healthy Youth survey (or something like that). All sorts of questions are included about s*x, drugs, alcohol, and also healthy relationships (do you feel you have a parent/adult you can talk to about...etc). The survey is totally anonymous, there are opt out forms sent home and the results are used to inform instruction (kids in general need more guidance in...this new suchandsuch a curriculum seems to be helping, etc), and it is tied to grant money in some way (it's a national thing as far as I know; not everywhere does it, but it is super common).

 

The biggest problems I (and my husband) see with it are...as young as it is given here (6th grade), there is a level of suggestibility (if you're asking about it, it must be common, maybe I should try it type thinking) and the results are for the current students, and by the time the results are back, those kids have moved on to the JR high and they have new kids (does still help with overall trends though), also, a lot of kids aren't very truthful most likely.

 

Anyhow, I don't think it is a horrible evil thing, I don't know how totally needed it is, but I do know that lots of schools give it.

[Pretty in Pink]

Not only are the questions wildly inapropriate, it is none of the school business.:eek:

 

I don't have a problem with the questions themselves, per se, but I do feel like it isn't the schools business in the first place. The thought of schools addressing sex ed in the first place doesn't exactly leave me feeling warm and fuzzy; then again, I realize that not all children come from homes in which these sorts of issues are discussed openly.

 

I think the school should have obtained parental consent first.

[Night Elf]

But there were permission slips and it was anonymous

 

This is the part that bothers me the most. When I was in school, this kind of stuff did not happen unless the school had actual written consent. If the child did not return the permission slip, the child was not included. It seems that today, the reverse happens. If you don't return the permission slip, your child is automatically included. How bizarre is that??

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

*I* wouldn't answer those questions. Why should my child?

 

I agree! Because an individuals s*x life is none of the school's business. A student shouldn't have to answer those questions even if it is "anonymous".

 

And that is before we get to the issue of appropriateness.

Edited June 16, 2011 by JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst

[Paige]

The school is not going to get any specific results of the survey. I don't see how "it's not the school's business," is a valid argument, because the school isn't asking, the survey people are, and the school will not be learning any of the business. Unless you meant that the school's business is educating and not proctoring surveys for outside groups.The school is just a conduit, they give the survey, collect them, and if they receive results, it will not be school specific. That said, I am iffy about it at 7th grade. I think most 7th graders know about what is being asked. The problem is, that if they don't know, they will for sure start asking about it. I also dislike it being done during school hours because it introduces sexualized thinking into the school day. Here they were, innocently conjugating verbs, and now the gossip of the day will be all about, "Did you see those oral sex questions?" giggle, giggle, etc. I would love to do my own survey about whether sexual harassment among the school kids spikes in the day or two after that survey is given!

 

The kids do not have to fill it out. Because they cannot legally look at the kids' answers, they cannot make sure they are filled out. If the kids do not wish to answer, they can turn them in blank. I am sure that a statement like that was read to them before they were given the survey.

[Night Elf]

Because an individuals s*x life is none of the school's business. A student shouldn't have to answer those questions even if it is "anonymous".

 

And that is before we get to the issue of appropriateness.

 

The person you quoted wrote "I wouldn't answer those questions. Why should my child?" :tongue_smilie:

[Night Elf]

The kids do not have to fill it out. Because they cannot legally look at the kids' answers, they cannot make sure they are filled out. If the kids do not wish to answer, they can turn them in blank. I am sure that a statement like that was read to them before they were given the survey.

 

There may be kids who don't understand that is a true viable option. I would have answered them if I was in school because I would feel that I wasn't completing an assignment that my teacher was giving to me. I'm not sure I would have really thought through the idea that the teacher wasn't the one who assigned the survey.

 

And even though the school isn't supposed to get the results, they can certainly sit there and read through the surveys to get a general idea. As a teacher for even a short time, I knew the kids' handwriting. I'm sure I could guess at least some of the kids' surveys. And think about the teacher's knowledge of that information! It could totally sway the teacher's opinion of the child and therefore his/her interactions and/or expectations of that child.

 

I guess overall it does make sense. I'm always certainly interested in reading such statistics. We've even seen such statistics discussed on this board and how people are glad they are homeschooling. But seeing the statistics in a professional publication, and thinking of the children as individuals who are having to sit and actually provide the answers to those questions are just two different things. It's like how I don't mind buying packaged chicken meat at the grocery store but I do NOT want to think about how that chicken got to the store in the first place.

[wapiti]

The school is not going to get any specific results of the survey. I don't see how "it's not the school's business," is a valid argument, because the school isn't asking, the survey people are, and the school will not be learning any of the business. Unless you meant that the school's business is educating and not proctoring surveys for outside groups.The school is just a conduit, they give the survey, collect them, and if they receive results, it will not be school specific.

 

That's just it - the school shouldn't have a right to ask, and neither should the survey company have the right to ask such questions of a minor. The survey people have even less of a connection to the student than the school, i.e., none. (Not to mention the fact that the school should be using the time - and money - for educating rather than proctoring surveys.)

 

Thinking out loud, doesn't permission to opt out affect the accuracy of the results?

[twoforjoy]

That's just it - the school shouldn't have a right to ask, and neither should the survey company have the right to ask such questions of a minor. The survey people have even less of a connection to the student than the school, i.e., none. (Not to mention the fact that the school should be using the time - and money - for educating rather than proctoring surveys.)

 

The survey people are likely connected with the government, which is doing this in the interest of public health. Like I said, there is no possible way that some random group or researcher doing a survey could get into a public school to ask kids questions about sex; they probably couldn't get approved to do a survey about sexual behavior in teens, period.

[athomemom]

It greatly disturbs me to think that 7th and 8th graders know what "oral sex" even is. Maybe I am naive, but I have two middle schoolers who have no clue. Yes, they are homeschooled, but really 12 and 13 year old children know about such things. I'm bothered by the whole deal.

[In The Great White North]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paige

The kids do not have to fill it out. Because they cannot legally look at the kids' answers, they cannot make sure they are filled out. If the kids do not wish to answer, they can turn them in blank. I am sure that a statement like that was read to them before they were given the survey.

 

There may be kids who don't understand that is a true viable option. I would have answered them if I was in school because I would feel that I wasn't completing an assignment that my teacher was giving to me. I'm not sure I would have really thought through the idea that the teacher wasn't the one who assigned the survey.

 

And even though the school isn't supposed to get the results, they can certainly sit there and read through the surveys to get a general idea. As a teacher for even a short time, I knew the kids' handwriting. I'm sure I could guess at least some of the kids' surveys. And think about the teacher's knowledge of that information! It could totally sway the teacher's opinion of the child and therefore his/her interactions and/or expectations of that child.

 

What LAW prevents them from looking at the answers? And how is that enforced?

 

The idea that these surveys are totally anonymous in all cases is optimistic at best.

 

Why doesn't this fall under an illegal search and seizure? Some of those activities are illegal. Has anyone explained to the kids their rights, and that anything they say can and will be used against them? And against their parents?

 

Assuming the surveys remain as anonymous as claimed, does answering this survey not lead the kids to believe they have to answer any question put to them by an authority figure?

 

What about kids who claim on the survey they are having sex with an adult? Teachers are mandatory reporters. Statutory rape is a crime (a 7th grader and an adult qualifies in most states.) The teacher recognizes the handwriting. Does she report it? It's required by law. Even if the survey isn't admissable in court (questionable at best,) could it start an investigation? What if the kids thought it was all a big joke and made up all the answers? Whose life is ruined then?

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Where is the evidence that there would be handwriting on the survey? Most surveys are checkmarked or with numbered responses. Where would the opportunity arise for teachers to perform handwriting analysis?

[bettyandbob]

The idea that these surveys are totally anonymous in all cases is optimistic at best.

 

The ones I filled out 30 years ago were scantron. I believe the surveys used in the local schools today (the same schools I attended) are scantron as well. No names. No handwriting. Just multiple choice response. I suppose teachers could try to id who belongs to which response sheet, that would take effort and likely be quite inaccurate without actual handwriting.

 

ETA: I was attempting to quote the blue text.

[MrsBasil]

:rant: Sorry, soapbox issue. :D

 

I was given a type of this survey in high school and I resented it. I'm not someone who is opposed, generally speaking, to government surveys. More often than not, I understand the usefulness. Even in this case, I understood then and understand now, why it is helpful.

 

However.

 

My private life, my sex life is my business and mine only. It's not going to be offered up for statistics and analysis. I was raised with the concept that certain things deserve complete privacy, unless and until I chose to share them. I was aware of what was abuse and what was healthy.

 

I lied like a rug because I was so annoyed at being handed a survey that covered the things it did. I got that it was anonymous. I knew no one at the school was actually going to see it. Still. It was my business and I felt they needed to back off.

[My3Monkeys]

The kids do not have to fill it out. Because they cannot legally look at the kids' answers, they cannot make sure they are filled out. If the kids do not wish to answer, they can turn them in blank. I am sure that a statement like that was read to them before they were given the survey.

 

According to this http://www.rutherford.org/pdf/2011/04-28-2011_Letter_Fitchburg-School-Survey.pdf , the daughters of the woman who has filed the complaint protested taking the test and were told to sit down and take it. One daughter pointed out that it was voluntary and tried to be excused and the teacher wouldn't allow it.[/url]

[Pretty in Pink]

It greatly disturbs me to think that 7th and 8th graders know what "oral sex" even is. Maybe I am naive, but I have two middle schoolers who have no clue. Yes, they are homeschooled, but really 12 and 13 year old children know about such things. I'm bothered by the whole deal.

 

I think it's sad that children that age *need* to know such things, but my 12yo knows because I feel it's necessary for his protection. These things can be so confusing for children, trying to decide whether an action constitutes sex or not. Sometimes predators may tell a child that a certain kind of touch is "okay" and the child isn't sure if that touch is the same as sex or not. In addition, my 12yo socializes with other kids his age and I know that they may talk about these things. I would rather him learn factual information from his parents than believe falsehoods put forth by his peers. Lastly, if during the next few years he is in a position where he needs to make decisions about sexual activity, I want him to be informed. Heaven knows I don't want him doing that at such a young age, and I don't foresee him being in such a position, but I suppose one never knows. He won't be spending all of his free time here at home when he is 15 or 16; he doesn't spend *all* of his free time here at home now, at nearly 13.

[Joanne]

It greatly disturbs me to think that 7th and 8th graders know what "oral sex" even is. Maybe I am naive, but I have two middle schoolers who have no clue. Yes, they are homeschooled, but really 12 and 13 year old children know about such things. I'm bothered by the whole deal.

 

I am not in favor of the survey. However, I am far more disturbed that a teen in today's western world wouldn't know these terms, what they meant and that OS can be a part of adult intimate expression.

[Danestress]

I'm not sure that sociologists (psychologists, sex educators, whoever) should be using the schools to mine information on teenager, anonymous or not. I don't want market researchers doing it either, no matter how important the information might be to them. I don't want medical organizations doing it either, even if ultimately it's one way get information that might be useful. I don't want law enforcement doing it, even if it's gives them good, anonymous information.

 

It' s just not the purpose of schools, and I don't want schools to be a zone for mining information on teens.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think we're agreeing here. Was I misunderstood?

 

Yes, we are agreeing-the "I agree" smilie was lost somewhere.

[Anne]

Aside from my personal feelings about this survey, which are negative, I think this is another example of loading teachers up with requirements that have nothing to do with educating our children. Let the teachers teach, for pete's sake - don't keep cutting into their teaching time with ridiculousness like this...

 

Anne

[MIch elle]

I do, and I know that prostitution, drugs, gangs, and other crimes are not uncommon in this city.

 

I do not agree with the survey but there is perhaps a reason it was given in THIS city.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

There was a news report on the radio about this when I was driving with my kids. My eldest and I discussed the fact that he wasn't obligated to answer questions posed to him by an adult unless he was in a court of law. That he could otherwise always say that the question made him uncomfortable and that he didn't want to answer.

 

The problem that I have with the survey is 1) schools are constantly complaining that they don't have enough instructional time, and 2) there is too much pressure in these situations to comply because the questions are coming from an authority figure.

 

 

As an aside, the military frequently does "anonymous" surveys. Yet I'm always amused at how we will continue to get reminders and replacement copies of the survey until we turn it in (or the survey window finally closes). Despite its being anonymous, they are quite able to track whose has been turned in and whose hasn't. (Not a conspiracy theory, just something that makes me roll my eyes.)

 

I am curious how many demographic indicators there are on these surveys. If there are blocks for race, ethnicity, and/or questions about family composition, it could be rather easy to figure out who some of the responses came from.

[LaxMom]

FWIW, for those who think 6th & 7th graders have no clue about the various and sundry "activities" of consenting adults, you are very mistaken. I have gotten quite an education listening to the discussions of elementary kids walking past my house from their bus stop. For 11 years. Not the same kids or even an overlapping segment.

 

I know multiple parents who have had to have very uncomfortable talks with their first and second graders, some of whom do not ride the bus, and a couple who are homeschooled.

 

In my mind, as an adult, there is a huge difference between some random stranger asking me personal questions and being asked to fill out an anonymous survey in a group situation. I would also feel uncomfortable being forced to give instructor feedback verbally, but feel I can give constructive praise/criticism in an exit survey.

[twoforjoy]

Knowing several people who do human subjects research, I really don't think anonymity should be a concern. The requirements for anonymity for any type of survey research are strict; the requirements for anonymity for survey research about sex are stricter; I simply cannot fathom how strict the anonymity requirements for survey research on the sex lives of teens would be.

 

This isn't a "Sure, it's anonymous" wink-wink situation. It would be an extremely serious ethical violation--the kind that destroys careers--for a person to in any way disseminate the information in these surveys without complete anonymity of participants.

 

I'm not even sure how people think the teachers could read the responses, if they wanted to. The teacher is not doing anything with these surveys. I would imagine that the students may be sealing them up themselves, but if not the teacher would be required to immediately seal the surveys away. They would simply not be given the opportunity to examine them. I would imagine that the teachers are actually barred from reading the responses, since they are not the ones giving the survey and so have no access to the results until the results are actually published.

 

AFAIK, surveys of this kind have been given since at least 1988. I am not aware of a single instance in which there was a breach of confidentiality.

[Night Elf]

Where is the evidence that there would be handwriting on the survey? Most surveys are checkmarked or with numbered responses. Where would the opportunity arise for teachers to perform handwriting analysis?

 

None, I was thinking it asked the types of questions that required written out answers or checkmarks. I didn't think of scantrons sheets. But still, the teachers would have to have made an effort to keep it really anonymous in the way the papers were collected.

[LaxMom]

If I recall correctly after 25 years, we slid ours (checkmarks or circles as answers) into an envelope at the back of the room. Our teacher then asked a student to deliver it to the office. So, in the worst case scenario, anonymity wise, someone in the office might have been able to eyeball the answers of 30 people. (though they probably just had a box to collect the envelopes)

[Perry]

Knowing several people who do human subjects research, I really don't think anonymity should be a concern. The requirements for anonymity for any type of survey research are strict; the requirements for anonymity for survey research about sex are stricter; I simply cannot fathom how strict the anonymity requirements for survey research on the sex lives of teens would be.

 

This isn't a "Sure, it's anonymous" wink-wink situation. It would be an extremely serious ethical violation--the kind that destroys careers--for a person to in any way disseminate the information in these surveys without complete anonymity of participants.

 

I'm not even sure how people think the teachers could read the responses, if they wanted to. The teacher is not doing anything with these surveys. I would imagine that the students may be sealing them up themselves, but if not the teacher would be required to immediately seal the surveys away. They would simply not be given the opportunity to examine them. I would imagine that the teachers are actually barred from reading the responses, since they are not the ones giving the survey and so have no access to the results until the results are actually published.

 

AFAIK, surveys of this kind have been given since at least 1988. I am not aware of a single instance in which there was a breach of confidentiality.

You are describing how it should be, but we don't know if that's the way it was.

 

If they had sent home a permission slip explaining all that, they could have avoided upsetting the parents.

[Carol in Cal.]

These are very private matters.

I would not want to be put in the position of being asked those questions in public, and I particularly object to a minor being asked those questions in public while lacking the company of a parent.

 

Furthermore, this kind of sensitive topic should not be broached without prior parental consent. At all.

[Perry]

You are describing how it should be, but we don't know if that's the way it was.

 

If they had sent home a permission slip explaining all that, they could have avoided upsetting the parents.

Also, I've done human subjects research, and I would consider this situation unethical. I can't imagine any IRB allowing that kind of survey without informed (parental) consent. I'd like to know more about who was doing the survey, and what kind of procedures they were following.

[bettyandbob]

I'm not sure that sociologists (psychologists, sex educators, whoever) should be using the schools to mine information on teenager, anonymous or not. I don't want market researchers doing it either, no matter how important the information might be to them. I don't want medical organizations doing it either, even if ultimately it's one way get information that might be useful. I don't want law enforcement doing it, even if it's gives them good, anonymous information.

 

It' s just not the purpose of schools, and I don't want schools to be a zone for mining information on teens.

 

Your title says you are concerned about precedent. As several posters have noted the precedent was set years ago. The first survey I did like this was over 30 years ago.

 

I think a lot of people forgot they filled these things out and then are surprised when they learn their kid had one. Really, if their child took such a survey and mentioned it to them, they should be grateful--not for the school or government handing out such surveys, but because their child is willing to mention such topics to them. I think the last "private" discussion I had with my mom was in preschool about proper wiping--we never talked about menses.

 

Anyone who thinks 12 yo's don't hear about the stuff on these surveys is crazy. Even homeschoolers. You'd have to be real isolated to sure your child could never hear about this stuff. You don't know what they talk about at soccer, swim team, or hanging out on the playground at co op. Some kids heard stuff somewhere and they talk to other kids. That's just the way it is. As a parent it's important to educate early and with your spiritual perspective--you want to have the first imprint. And the fact that you talk about it makes it easier for your kids to talk about it later. And if your dc learn about various things before you say anything, you probably missed the opportunity to have the greatest influence.

Edited June 16, 2011 by betty

[dirty ethel rackham]

I am not in favor of the survey. However, I am far more disturbed that a teen in today's western world wouldn't know these terms, what they meant and that OS can be a part of adult intimate expression.

 

Joanne,

 

Maybe that figures into why some of us homeschool. I really don't understand why a 13 year old NEEDS to know about OS. I really don't. Just because our culture is over sexualized doesn't mean we need to invite that culture into our lives. My kids are not terribly sheltered from pop culture like some hs'ers we know, but human sexuality really is not the overriding topic of conversation among even our most liberal hs-ing friends. (BTW, our homeschooling friends are mostly secular homeschoolers.) I like to think that our de-emphasis on sex in our homeschooling culture has freed our kids from the burden of oversexualization.

 

My older kids know what sex is and probably do know about most of the "options". But they are older than the target audience of the survey and need that knowledge. Other than their exposure to me teaching childbirth classes for 12 years, unfortunately much of that knowledge is not from conversations with us because they stopped asking me questions at around age 6 and dh is caught in the dark ages where nobody talks about it. Whenever I tried to bring it up, my boys would avoid me like the plague. I had to resort to leaving books all around the house.

 

My youngest doesn't know the mechanics yet, but we will be tackling that this year or the next. We have had discussions about puberty and how babies are born (my childbirth educator experience) but has not asked how they get there yet. She is much more open to with me about stuff so these conversations are happening much more naturally.

 

As to the OP, I guess I am fairly disturbed at the survey - mostly that it was given without parental approval. Part of the problem with even asking those questions is that it tends to normalize behavior that really is not age appropriate. I get that, in some areas, these things ARE happening, but this is not the case everywhere.

[Wamommy]

I have an almost 13 year old. We have been very open about sexual intercourse over the years, but I have never discussed oral sex with him. I would be surprised if he had ever heard of it and mortified if he heard about it through a survey.

[Aquinas Academy]

Joanne,

 

Maybe that figures into why some of us homeschool. I really don't understand why a 13 year old NEEDS to know about OS. I really don't. Just because our culture is over sexualized doesn't mean we need to invite that culture into our lives. My kids are not terribly sheltered from pop culture like some hs'ers we know, but human sexuality really is not the overriding topic of conversation among even our most liberal hs-ing friends. (BTW, our homeschooling friends are mostly secular homeschoolers.) I like to think that our de-emphasis on sex in our homeschooling culture has freed our kids from the burden of oversexualization.

 

My older kids know what sex is and probably do know about most of the "options". But they are older than the target audience of the survey and need that knowledge. Other than their exposure to me teaching childbirth classes for 12 years, unfortunately much of that knowledge is not from conversations with us because they stopped asking me questions at around age 6 and dh is caught in the dark ages where nobody talks about it. Whenever I tried to bring it up, my boys would avoid me like the plague. I had to resort to leaving books all around the house.

 

My youngest doesn't know the mechanics yet, but we will be tackling that this year or the next. We have had discussions about puberty and how babies are born (my childbirth educator experience) but has not asked how they get there yet. She is much more open to with me about stuff so these conversations are happening much more naturally.

 

As to the OP, I guess I am fairly disturbed at the survey - mostly that it was given without parental approval. Part of the problem with even asking those questions is that it tends to normalize behavior that really is not age appropriate. I get that, in some areas, these things ARE happening, but this is not the case everywhere.

:iagree:

I do think that given the society we live in, teens need to know about sex, including OS. But asking 12 year olds to fill in a graphic survey is completely different, IMO.

I also can't help thinking about if I'd been asked to fill out the survey when I was in grade 7. Having been accelerated a couple grades, I would have been 10 years old at the time. I definitely did not know about OS. I realise that this probably isn't the situation of any of the kids who took part in the survey, but it could be and it's just one more reason I find the whole thing disturbing.